Why I like it here

[sanjuro_ronin]

Before I lave for the day I anted to share something with you guys.
We've been having a bit of a crappy spell here with a little too much noise and trolls and too little substance.
Part of it is natural, Part of it is our faults and part of it is your fault.
But I wanted to focus on what I LIKE about this place.
I retired from MA competition in 2000 and from MA gyms/schools in 03.
Since then I don't get much chance to speak about MA, discuss it and, well....live it as much as I used to.
I love this place because I can come here and learn, enjoy, have fun and, if I am able to, even perhaps teach a little something to someone that I may be helpful to.
That is really awesome because I never had THIS when I was a beginner.
Never had a source of rich MA knowledge and experience to go to and get advice and just listen and learn about how things were and are outside of "my little world".
And we have that, NOW.
Do you guys get that?
Do you get how awesome this truly is?

I really hope you do.

[MasterKiller]

Taoist hippy.

[lkfmdc]

at the end of the day



it's all really just about the basics




and by basics I mean



NAKED CHICKS WITH GUNS



http://farm1.static.flickr.com/128/320737505_6d93ddee3e.jpg

[Frost]

at the end of the day



it's all really just about the basics




and by basics I mean



NAKED CHICKS WITH GUNS



http://farm1.static.flickr.com/128/320737505_6d93ddee3e.jpg

oh you total and complete g*t i hate you :eek::eek:

[David Jamieson]

Has no one informed you of the evils of posting your brolove while drunk?

[YouKnowWho]

teach a little something to someone that I may be helpful to.

I don't mind to share information here, but to share information to those who don't respect TCMA is just like to "use your hot face to touch their cold ass". It not only makes a fool out of yourself but also disrespect TCMA big time.

Beginner: What should I ...?
TCMA guy: You may try ...
MMA guy: Where is your MMA fighting clip?

[faxiapreta]

I don't mind to share information here, but to share information to those who don't respect TCMA is just like to "use your hot face to touch their cold ass". It not only makes a fool out of yourself but also disrespect TCMA big time.

Maybe that's the reason why you have so many posts with bad and unworkable techniques and practices. You are giving out "opposite" information because you are afraid of people stealing your real techniques and practices.

That would explain a lot, actually.

[bawang]

im only here to learn wisdom from the mighty david ross

praise him

[Mulong]

Forums have become a great source of reference, especially for individuals that live in area where there isn’t much CMA… :)

[ShortBridge]

I want to like it here...but I'm having a hard time.

[bawang]

my wing chun sense is tingling

[David Jamieson]

Maybe that's the reason why you have so many posts with bad and unworkable techniques and practices. You are giving out "opposite" information because you are afraid of people stealing your real techniques and practices.

That would explain a lot, actually.

And here is that cold ass he was talking about.
still here I see.

so what have you learned? If anything at all. lol

[GeneChing]

All I can say is that if we can't handle trollz on the forum, well, that's not the realz.


im only here to learn wisdom from the mighty david ross

praise himroflmao!

[David Jamieson]

All I can say is that if we can't handle trollz on the forum, well, that's not the realz.


It's all about the turnabout as fair play modality really.
Present a cold ass for them to press their hot faces on. :D

[GeneChing]

Too much peng. Not enough lu. I'm always disappointed how many people try to either confront or reason with the trollz. That's such a stupid tactic - you fall right into the trolltrap. Lure them in, lead them on, and see what kind of outrageous thing they say.

What say you all to that?

;)

[bawang]

Most users ever online was 556, 06-11-2011

thank you razunida

[David Jamieson]

Too much peng. Not enough lu. I'm always disappointed how many people try to either confront or reason with the trollz. That's such a stupid tactic - you fall right into the trolltrap. Lure them in, lead them on, and see what kind of outrageous thing they say.

What say you all to that?

;)

I prefer to beat them over the head with their own shoe.

Can I still do that as long as I promote Kung Fu?

[Lucas]

I am the unshakable wall, nothing here ever phases me....ever... ok I lie, sometimes Sanjuro's posts with girlies phase me...but that is another matter.

one of my personal idols is a dead man by the name of takuan soho, we can all learn a lot from him. not everyone is able to flow effortlessly from circle to circle and accept that which you find in each...if you can however, it makes for a much more interesting ride. and you learn so much more that way.

anything in life that is worth while will take some form of effort. so, with that said, you can easily see the worth of KFM by how much effort it takes to find those golden nuggets and gleaming gems of glory. they are here, if you but only know how to open your eyes and see clearly. yess from both the tma and mma crowd...

part of me has pity for the lost souls of KFM that do not share my in depth understanding of the universe and its ways, and then part of me is like,,, fug u guys hahah i got it and you dont neener neener neener

but then i realize that is not productive, so i keep it to myself. anyway 'getting it' rules. we all think we get it, but he main difference between myself and most other people is that i actually do. but dont believe me because i very well may be lying to you.

[ShaolinDan]

Yes, this forum is very much like gold prospecting.

Absolutely the best/most comprehensive kung fu resource I have ever found, answers from every angle to all the questions I never thought to ask, but also an awful lot of sand to sift through. It takes patience, and search skills.

It's nice though to hear all the different opinions...unless you travel around the world visiting MA schools, there's no other way to find out what 'everyone' is thinking. I disagree with a lot, but I wouldn't even know what to disagree with if this forum weren't here. Now I know about all the various 'camps' (except the too busy training to post camp :) ) Very very useful.

Still, we(I mean 'you all' :) ) could be more careful about the trolls' diets. :o

[Lucas]

I am under the impressiong that our plan thus far has been to over feed the trolls with the hopes that they would become so large and bloated, that they would be readily recognizable. Unfortunately, that particular strategy seems to have been a failed venture. :(

[David Jamieson]

Here's what I know for sure (Thanks Oprah!)

1. If you practice Kung Fu, you will be challenged by the assumptions of others.

2. If you practice Kung Fu, you will be challenged by your own assumptions.

That's a small truth for me. :)

[David Jamieson]

I am under the impressiong that our plan thus far has been to over feed the trolls with the hopes that they would become so large and bloated, that they would be readily recognizable. Unfortunately, that particular strategy seems to have been a failed venture. :(

worked pretty good with 1bad and knifefighter I'd say.

[Lucas]

:eek:

btw: oprah does kungfu?

[David Jamieson]

:eek:

btw: oprah does kungfu?

emotional terrorism kung fu, yes.

[Scott R. Brown]

Too much peng. Not enough lu. I'm always disappointed how many people try to either confront or reason with the trollz. That's such a stupid tactic - you fall right into the trolltrap. Lure them in, lead them on, and see what kind of outrageous thing they say.

What say you all to that?

;)

Some people like to play with trolls cuz it is fun to see them burst a hemorrhoid!:D:eek:

[Lucas]

Only the trong survive!!!!

[Lucas]

we have that, NOW.
Do you guys get that?
Do you get how awesome this truly is?

I really hope you do.

something that continues to amaze me is that I literally have the whole of the internet in the palm of my hand....freaking blows my mind sometimes

[SPJ]

I don't mind to share information here, but to share information to those who don't respect TCMA is just like to "use your hot face to touch their cold ass". It not only makes a fool out of yourself but also disrespect TCMA big time.

Beginner: What should I ...?
TCMA guy: You may try ...
MMA guy: Where is your MMA fighting clip?

warm cheeks pressing on to cold arse.

all efforts may not be all wasted.

b/c all posts are archived and searchable in the world of internet.

1. I used to write letters to answer kung fu related questions.

then we started to share common answers to common questions on the bulletin boards or news letter in kuo shu club in college.

2. we started to share those Q & A with e mails. such as forward mails to all or reply to all.

3. now that we have the platform called forums.

life was never the same on kung fu Q & A.

:)

[Lee Chiang Po]

my wing chun sense is tingling

NAAA, that is only your goober tingling. Quit pulling on it and it will be just fine.

[YouKnowWho]

life was never the same on kung fu Q & A.

Until people asks you, "Where is your MMA fight clip?" :mad:

[faxiapreta]

Until people asks you, "Where is your MMA fight clip?" :mad:

Yeah, it's quite a shame that there are people who don't believe a claim that looks and sounds like b.s. and ask you to provide evidence for said claim.

If you are as gullible as you expect the people to believe your claims to be, send me your email. I have some people in Nigeria who would like to contact you about a financial arrangement ..

[sanjuro_ronin]

something that continues to amaze me is that I literally have the whole of the internet in the palm of my hand....freaking blows my mind sometimes

We have, now, a place where we can discuss the good, the bad and the ugly of TCMA.
We can discuss things like IP, IB, IW, things that were "verbotten" to talk about publically not too long ago.
We can speak of systems like SPM and Kakka kuen that were, not to long ago, so obscure that you could, very easily, have people claim to be masters and know one was the wiser.
We had people in the past claim to train under so and so and there was no way to verify and now there is (mostly), we had people claiming to be able to do this and that and NOW, in the information age, there is no excuse NOT so show it.
We can discuss things about the nature ot TCMA that were just not possible, with a wide range of experiences, even 20 years ago.

We have it great guys, we really need to appreciate what we have.

Just saying.

[Brule]

We can speak of systems like SPM and Kakka kuen........Just saying.

Maybe i've spent too much time discussing things with my 6 and 7 yr old boyz but i lol'd at this.

[Dale Dugas]

I appreciate the forums here.

What I do not appreciate are net ghosts and other cowards who snipe and slander and libel those who are in the public eye, and bad mouth certain peoples skills, business', etc and are seemingly allowed to slander, libel and snipe with pretty much free reign here on KFM.

There are some who have trained very hard to get where they are, have come out to the TCMA world in response to a need for teaching and offering things that can help.

I started making and selling liniments in response to a few people who felt the need to rip people off and take them to the cleaners for herbs and dit da jow.

I have been busting my ass for the last 3 years of my life to obtain a masters degree in Acupuncture and Chinese Medicine, and its a little disheartening to be called a fraud and snake oil salesman by multiple net ghosts/cowards for pages on end at times.

There needs to be a little more moderation, and less asshattery.

[SimonM]

I like it here. My particular brand of nerdiness includes a love of Kung Fu and a love of martial arts related media (from Chinese movies to Wuxia novels) and there is basically nowhere else on the web I can be assured of finding people who agree.

Plus our trolls are either entertaining or easily ignored - a bonus either way.

I do hope that some members of our community learn to chill a little bit and realize that it's only the f@#king Internet though.

[David Jamieson]

Yeah, it's quite a shame that there are people who don't believe a claim that looks and sounds like b.s. and ask you to provide evidence for said claim.

If you are as gullible as you expect the people to believe your claims to be, send me your email. I have some people in Nigeria who would like to contact you about a financial arrangement ..

So, if a guy is post 60 you want to see his fight clips? Bit thin in your thinning there...

See, that's the problem with a lot of youngsters like yourself. You don't seem to realize that back in the day you were lucky if you even had a still camera!

video cameras? Holy jeez! Those were thousands of dollars even up to only a few years ago.

so, it's not likely that there will be ubiquitous clips of older martial artists although, there is likely a lot of stills and such.

I don't even have any pictures of myself in my teens thanks to a house fire...

I have pics from when I was a baby back at the end of the Spanish inquisition and the start of the 3rd crusade and I have pictures from when I was in my 30's. :(

anyway, here nor there, but oft times "lemme see your clip" is the cry of the moron who has no brain and nothing to really discuss. Just wants to blow and blow hard.

[Iron_Eagle_76]

I also believe if you are going to ask someone to post a clip, have one yourself to post or STFU!! If people held themselves to the same standard they attempt to hold others at, this shouldn't be a problem.;)

[Scott R. Brown]

David, just ignore maxipada!;)

[Scott R. Brown]

I also believe if you are going to ask someone to post a clip, have one yourself to post or STFU!! If people held themselves to the same standard they attempt to hold others at, this shouldn't be a problem.;)

There's an idea!

How about starting to show us videos of you guys trying out some of these techniques you insist don't work and demonstrating how they don't work.

At the very least we can all be entertained watching these guys get their a$$e$ kicked as they demonstrate how each individual technique doesn't work!:D

I suggest you guys start by taking shots to the temple! I want to see if it really is a one shot knockout or just an old man's tale!

[Iron_Eagle_76]

I have evidence that through Iron Crotch training, one can take a full blown football punt to the gonads and not even blink an eye. This type of training is secret and uber deadly but I will bestow upon you all video evidence that it works. But first I need a volunteer not trained in teh deadly Iron Crotch.

Scott R. Brown has volunteered to let me punt him in the nuts at full blast! The video will follow soon.:D

[Scott R. Brown]

I have evidence that through Iron Crotch training, one can take a full blown football punt to the gonads and not even blink an eye. This type of training is secret and uber deadly but I will bestow upon you all video evidence that it works. But first I need a volunteer not trained in teh deadly Iron Crotch.

Scott R. Brown has volunteered to let me punt him in the nuts at full blast! The video will follow soon.:D

Normally I am game for just about anything, however, in this case I have had my lifetime allotment of nut knocks!

I have had so many, I was surprised I was able to have kids! The worst ones and that is PLURAL, was high school water polo!:eek:

I would be more than happy to test your iron testicles achievement by kicking your balls up around your ears though, if you would like.

Just trying to not be a spoil sport and help out you know!

[tallmike]

I appreciate the forums here.

What I do not appreciate are net ghosts and other cowards who snipe and slander and libel those who are in the public eye, and bad mouth certain peoples skills, business', etc and are seemingly allowed to slander, libel and snipe with pretty much free reign here on KFM.

There are some who have trained very hard to get where they are, have come out to the TCMA world in response to a need for teaching and offering things that can help.

I started making and selling liniments in response to a few people who felt the need to rip people off and take them to the cleaners for herbs and dit da jow.

I have been busting my ass for the last 3 years of my life to obtain a masters degree in Acupuncture and Chinese Medicine, and its a little disheartening to be called a fraud and snake oil salesman by multiple net ghosts/cowards for pages on end at times.

There needs to be a little more moderation, and less asshattery.

Many people stay out of running for political office because of the scrutiny the media puts their family and them through. So they don't run, remain obscure, and avoid public scrutiny altogether. Either be a Sarah Palin, getting made fun of all the time, or be Sarah Nobody. The quest to be someone in the public eye comes with it's price. The choice is yours.

[Lucas]

I'm a bit disappointed no one trolled my Initial post in this thread. Actually now that i think about it you guys rarely share the trolls around here. Troll hogs

[faxiapreta]

I also believe if you are going to ask someone to post a clip, have one yourself to post or STFU!! If people held themselves to the same standard they attempt to hold others at, this shouldn't be a problem.;)

The onus is on the person making the claim to show the evidence. Making the claim without having any evidence carries the same credibility as the Nigerian scam emails we all get in our spam folders.

If I make a specific claim for something, I will be happy to post the video.

[Scott R. Brown]

The onus is on the person making the claim to show the evidence. Making the claim without having any evidence carries the same credibility as the Nigerian scam emails we all get in our spam folders.

If I make a specific claim for something, I will be happy to post the video.

So you are making the claim it can't be done! The onus is on you to prove your claim:p!

[David Jamieson]

The onus is on the person making the claim to show the evidence. Making the claim without having any evidence carries the same credibility as the Nigerian scam emails we all get in our spam folders.

If I make a specific claim for something, I will be happy to post the video.

You make a lot of claims and then back them up with nothing.
You make a lot of accusations and you are critical of things you have demonstrated to have little if any understanding of whatsoever.

You have no evidence that you are worth listening to.
You enlighten no one with your method and we know why you're here and it's not because you know any kung fu or are interested in kung fu. You are interested in diminishing and ridiculing others who don't fit into your little tiny world view.

I find it quite easy to point these things out about your lack of character and your ridiculous persona as a mere troll. A mere nobody with worthless nonsense flowing from their mouth.

I'll just wait for you to be banned. Because that's all you're looking for anyway. Seen sick minds like yours before and they are everywhere. It's because of this outlet that you express your sickness so freely. You aren''t free of it and it is all yours.

sad really. just saying.

[faxiapreta]

So, if a guy is post 60 you want to see his fight clips? Bit thin in your thinning there...

See, that's the problem with a lot of youngsters like yourself. You don't seem to realize that back in the day you were lucky if you even had a still camera!

video cameras? Holy jeez! Those were thousands of dollars even up to only a few years ago.

Someone who claims to coach fighters should easily be able to show the techniques he is supporting being applied by his fighters.

BTW, there are quite a few 60-something guys competing in submission grappling tourneys.

[faxiapreta]

So you are making the claim it can't be done! The onus is on you to prove your claim:p!

You can't prove a negative.

[David Jamieson]

Someone who claims to coach fighters should easily be able to show the techniques he is supporting being applied by his fighters.

why? why should it be easy to show? and why anyone shows their training methods in martial arts is beyond me. I don't want opponents knowing what I do. Gives them a one up of what to expect.

Besides, you should perhaps do a little study before crapping everywhere with your fingers. You don't even know who this guy is while several of us do.

You are nobody, his history and background is long and known. His teacher is known, his chosen art is known and his skill level is known and accepted.

you on the other hand are a nothing. A nobody. You don't deserve anything from anyone here. Not an explanation, not proof of anything, not one iota of information should be afforded you because it isn't worth anything to you.

go away, come back when you're ready to communicate.

[SPJ]

kung fu is more known in the public then ever before.

even kung fu panda knows about inner peace and tai ji to deflect dragon canon balls from pea**** naval vessel (disney audience of young kids)

air bender knows about ba gua

supah ninja for nick teen

---

so the forums are at way higher level than just show and tell

the public demands more.

--

[Scott R. Brown]

You can't prove a negative.

In some cases you can.

Stand there and let people punch you in the temple 5 or 10 times!

When you are still standing it will prove something, won't it?

[sanjuro_ronin]

The onus is on the person making the claim to show the evidence. Making the claim without having any evidence carries the same credibility as the Nigerian scam emails we all get in our spam folders.

If I make a specific claim for something, I will be happy to post the video.

That isn't the problem, the problem is when the evidence demanded has very little, if anything, to do with the claim.
EX:
The IP thread.
Unless someone states that IP makes a person a better fighter, then any video of anyone fighting is meaningless to the argument.
Yet, that is what was demanded.
The claim to IP is that it increases bone density- Wolf's law proves this as do x-rays.
The claim is that Ip conditoning helps you hit harder, NOT fight better.
The way to prove this is to measure the force of an IP practioner BEFORE and AFTER IP training.

[faxiapreta]

That isn't the problem, the problem is when the evidence demanded has very little, if anything, to do with the claim.
EX:
The IP thread.
Unless someone states that IP makes a person a better fighter, then any video of anyone fighting is meaningless to the argument.
Yet, that is what was demanded.

People were claiming that IP made people able to hit harder in the context of a fight.

As I said, hitting a stationary object, especially in a downward motion with the palm has very little, if any, transfer to actual fighting.

I never had a problem with someone claiming IP made them hit harder in something that had nothing to do with fighting.

Most people (including you) were claiming it carried over to fighting.





The claim to IP is that it increases bone density- Wolf's law proves this as do x-rays.
The claim is that Ip conditoning helps you hit harder, NOT fight better.

The claim was that jow was responsible for the increase in bone density.




The way to prove this is to measure the force of an IP practioner BEFORE and AFTER IP training.

Yep.

[David Jamieson]

People were claiming that IP made people able to hit harder in the context of a fight.

As I said, hitting a stationary object, especially in a downward motion with the palm has very little, if any, transfer to actual fighting.

I never had a problem with someone claiming IP made them hit harder in something that had nothing to do with fighting.

Most people (including you) were claiming it carried over to fighting.






The claim was that jow was responsible for the increase in bone density.





Yep.

according to your world view, how does weightlifting carry over to fighting?

[sanjuro_ronin]

People were claiming that IP made people able to hit harder in the context of a fight.

As I said, hitting a stationary object, especially in a downward motion with the palm has very little, if any, transfer to actual fighting.

I never had a problem with someone claiming IP made them hit harder in something that had nothing to do with fighting.

Most people (including you) were claiming it carried over to fighting.


The claim was that jow was responsible for the increase in bone density.


Yep.

I think you are confusing carrying OVER into fighting with making a better fighter.
Cardio and ST carry over into fighting but don't make one a "better" fighter.

I don't recall anyone claiming that Jow was what made the bones denser, Jow is what helped with the bruising and healing process so, perhaps indirectly, it helped make the bones denser in the sense that one could do more striking.

As for the downward motion of striking ( palm or otherwise) having to do little with striking, I am not sure where you go that idea.

[faxiapreta]

according to your world view, how does weightlifting carry over to fighting?

The strength and power gains in the movements that are as close to possible to the fighting movements will carry over to fighting. Most sports related resistance training programs are designed to get as close as possible to the actual movements.

For example doing arm curls won't do much for punching, but bench press and rotational plyometrics will carry over to horizontal punching.

Arm curls will, however carry over to submission grappling and MMA because some of that "fighting activity" will be the same motion as an arm curl (i.e. defending arm bars).

One routine that some bare knuckle fighters have used to "toughen" their hands, as well as to increase punching power is to do plyometics on hard surfaces, landing on the fists. This type of training would be significantly more effective than downward palm slapping.

Additionally, strength training is used to balance out the natural imbalances that occur from participating in a specific sport over a period of time.

[faxiapreta]

As for the downward motion of striking ( palm or otherwise) having to do little with striking, I am not sure where you go that idea.

Show me some fights where someone strikes effectively in a downward motion like is done with IP training.

I doubt you will be able to.



I think you are confusing carrying OVER into fighting with making a better fighter.
Cardio and ST carry over into fighting but don't make one a "better" fighter.

Carry over, better fighter... whatever, IP does neither in a way that isn't already done more effectively by fighters who compete.

As for your other comments, since the thread is gone, I'll not comment on that, other than to say I remember it differently.

[sanjuro_ronin]

One routine that some bare knuckle fighters have used to "toughen" their hands, as well as to increase punching power is to do plyometics on hard surfaces, landing on the fists. This type of training would be significantly more effective than downward palm slapping.


Karateka have been doing that for decades before "plyometrcis" was even a word and it is part of typical "hand conditioning".
Iron hand training takes it to another level.
One that builds on an existing foundation AND is far less harmfull to the hand in the long run (typically).
At the higher levels of Karate training you will find them using "IP" methods more and more.
Oyama did it, Higaonna does it, Machida and his family do it ( not sure if they use Jow per say though).

A got ask you, have you ever done it or seen it done?

[sanjuro_ronin]

Show me some fights where someone strikes effectively in a downward motion like is done with IP training.

I doubt you will be able to.




Carry over, better fighter... whatever, IP does neither in a way that isn't already done more effectively by fighters who compete.

As for your other comments, since the thread is gone, I'll not comment on that, other than to say I remember it differently.

Don't you recall all those Rickson fights, when he takes the back, what does he do?
deliver open handed palms to the head, correct?
It was a stable of MMA and VT until the use of gloves.

[faxiapreta]

Karateka have been doing that for decades before "plyometrcis" was even a word and it is part of typical "hand conditioning".
Iron hand training takes it to another level.
One that builds on an existing foundation AND is far less harmfull to the hand in the long run (typically).

There is no evidence for that, other than anecdotal.




A got ask you, have you ever done it or seen it done?

I've done "hand toughening" in ways that are more specific for fighting for quite some time.

As far as IP, I'd need to have some kind of hard evidence for something to work before I would switch methods.

[Iron_Eagle_76]

Don't you recall all those Rickson fights, when he takes the back, what does he do?
deliver open handed palms to the head, correct?
It was a stable of MMA and VT until the use of gloves.

Open hand strikes were used predominately in the old Pankration circuits as well, mostly due to the rule about no closed fist strikes to the head. I specifically remember some of these old fights with guys like Bas Rutten and Jason DeLucia using them quite well.

[sanjuro_ronin]

There is no evidence for that, other than anecdotal.





I've done "hand toughening" in ways that are more specific for fighting for quite some time.

As far as IP, I'd need to have some kind of hard evidence for something to work before I would switch methods.

True, there are no videos showing the change in bone density for IP, but there are for Iron arm that used the same method:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9u3Kj9npy74

[sanjuro_ronin]

Open hand strikes were used predominately in the old Pankration circuits as well, mostly due to the rule about no closed fist strikes to the head. I specifically remember some of these old fights with guys like Bas Rutten and Jason DeLucia using them quite well.

We can't deny the fact that NO "IP Master" or even anyone professing to do IP, eve competed in MMA, VT or whatnot.
Open hand strikes were used and effectively, but the IP issue is not resolved because of that.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I've done "hand toughening" in ways that are more specific for fighting for quite some time.

As far as IP, I'd need to have some kind of hard evidence for something to work before I would switch methods.

In other words, NO, you haven't done or seen iron hand training.
That's fair enough.

[Iron_Eagle_76]

We can't deny the fact that NO "IP Master" or even anyone professing to do IP, eve competed in MMA, VT or whatnot.
Open hand strikes were used and effectively, but the IP issue is not resolved because of that.

True, I just wanted to make the case that open hand strikes have been used quite effectively in full contact settings, I'll leave the IP argument for you guys.:p

[faxiapreta]

True, there are no videos showing the change in bone density for IP, but there are for Iron arm that used the same method:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9u3Kj9npy74

I've explained this to you many times. You will get no argument from me that hitting an limb against hard surfaces with increase the bone density in that limb.

My argument is with the claim that a specific method is better than another one.

My other argument is that that a method when done with motions that are not close to or the the same movement that will be done in fighting will not carry over to fighting. If anything, it is probably even counter productive.

Whats funny is that a thinking person could easily change those movements from the traditional counterproductive ones into ones that would have the desired carry over to fighting.

[Jimbo]

We can't deny the fact that NO "IP Master" or even anyone professing to do IP, eve competed in MMA, VT or whatnot.
Open hand strikes were used and effectively, but the IP issue is not resolved because of that.

I remember several years back (late '90s?) there was a world-class Russian boxer who fought out of Australia (I can't remember his name for the life of me) who claimed to have trained IP. He claimed that it helped him.

[faxiapreta]

We can't deny the fact that NO "IP Master" or even anyone professing to do IP, eve competed in MMA, VT or whatnot.
Open hand strikes were used and effectively, but the IP issue is not resolved because of that.

There is a reason that all bare handed fighters from the old European and American Boxers to the modern Vale Tudo and UFC fighters didn't use palms, but instead used fists.

Fists do far more damage.

[Lucas]

according to your world view, how does weightlifting carry over to fighting?

the same way ip does... :rolleyes:

[faxiapreta]

In other words, NO, you haven't done or seen iron hand training.
That's fair enough.

Years ago, some myself and some weightlifting buddies had a promotional gimmick we did to promote our weight training program. We allowed anyone to have one full power punch into our stomachs.

We were hit by boxers, kickboxers, karate, kung fu, IP, and a variety of other "hand toughening" practitioners.

Guess who hit the hardest, by far? The boxers.

[faxiapreta]

the same way ip does... :rolleyes:

Except that a lot of IP training has movements that are different than the striking done in fighting.

Take those out and make all the movements specific to fighting and you would be right.

And you could get just as many benefits without using jow.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I've explained this to you many times. You will get no argument from me that hitting an limb against hard surfaces with increase the bone density in that limb.

My argument is with the claim that a specific method is better than another one.

My other argument is that that a method when done with motions that are not close to or the the same movement that will be done in fighting will not carry over to fighting. If anything, it is probably even counter productive.

Whats funny is that a thinking person could easily change those movements from the traditional counterproductive ones into ones that would have the desired carry over to fighting.

You seem to be making it an either/or thing, when it's not.
Ip does NOT take the place of hand conditoning in the "practical movement specific" sense, it supplements it.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Years ago, some myself and some weightlifting buddies had a promotional gimmick we did to promote our weight training program. We allowed anyone to have one full power punch into our stomachs.

We were hit by boxers, kickboxers, karate, kung fu, IP, and a variety of other "hand toughening" practitioners.

Guess who hit the hardest, by far? The boxers.

I would agree with that analysis.
It has been my experience also that the hardest punchers are boxers.

[David Jamieson]

Years ago, some myself and some weightlifting buddies had a promotional gimmick we did to promote our weight training program. We allowed anyone to have one full power punch into our stomachs.

We were hit by boxers, kickboxers, karate, kung fu, IP, and a variety of other "hand toughening" practitioners.

Guess who hit the hardest, by far? The boxers.

I don't believe a word of this.
It reeks of lies.
why would weightlifters offer to be struck?

Dude you're pretty much a cinder now... maybe even a bit of charcoal at this point.

[faxiapreta]

I would agree with that analysis.
It has been my experience also that the hardest punchers are boxers.

Very few boxers, if any, do supplemental IP training. A thinking person might conclude, that at the least, IP training is not needed.

[faxiapreta]

I don't believe a word of this.
It reeks of lies.
why would weightlifters offer to be struck?

Dude you're pretty much a cinder now... maybe even a bit of charcoal at this point.

We were promoting functional strength training.

Most people have no idea how to train in a functional manner, especially in strengthening the core and abdominal area.

This was a great promotional idea. It was real, it was dramatic, and it got attention.

[Iron_Eagle_76]

I would agree with that analysis.
It has been my experience also that the hardest punchers are boxers.

When you have a specific set of techniques you practice over and over which pretty much takes up your entire training regiment (in the martial sense) those techniques will be the most powerful.

In a nutshell boxers have four main punches they train- Jab, Cross, Hook, and Uppercut, along with some variations of these main four. These four basic techniques are drilled until speed, timing, distance, and power are close to perfection.

Now, take that theory and apply it to all the various techniques taught in other martial arts. There are a lot of good things but sometimes quantity does not overtake quality. And also in my experience of two solid years in a good boxing gym that produces pro and golden glove champion fighters, nobody hits harder than a well trained boxer.

[sanjuro_ronin]

We were promoting functional strength training.

Most people have no idea how to train in a functional manner, especially in strengthening the core and abdominal area.

This was a great promotional idea. It was real, it was dramatic, and it got attention.

This is where the old "video or it never happened" would be thrown around...

[sanjuro_ronin]

When you have a specific set of techniques you practice over and over which pretty much takes up your entire training regiment (in the martial sense) those techniques will be the most powerful.

In a nutshell boxers have four main punches they train- Jab, Cross, Hook, and Uppercut, along with some variations of these main four. These four basic techniques are drilled until speed, timing, distance, and power are close to perfection.

Now, take that theory and apply it to all the various techniques taught in other martial arts. There are a lot of good things but sometimes quantity does not overtake quality. And also in my experience of two solid years in a good boxing gym that produces pro and golden glove champion fighters, nobody hits harder than a well trained boxer.

Give that man a cigar !!!

[David Jamieson]

We were promoting functional strength training.

Most people have no idea how to train in a functional manner, especially in strengthening the core and abdominal area.

This was a great promotional idea. It was real, it was dramatic, and it got attention.

again, lies.

how is weightlifting functional if it's not task specific to something?

what were you trying to build weight to function with?

Most people that train know plenty about core development and taking hits is part of IB training and not core strengthening. So, you are lying, or stretching the truth about whatever your claims are.

weight lifting doesn't harden you to take shots to the abdomen. If it did then boxers wouldn't use medicine ball in a very IB way which isn't core development, it's strike conditioning.

have you ever actually boxed even? I don't think so, you talk in huge ignorant swaths about it.

aren't you that guy who can't get anyone to train with him so you get teenagers to come and hit each other with hockey helmets and stuff? That's you right?

[faxiapreta]

This is where the old "video or it never happened" would be thrown around...

Here's Kimbo Slice doing it against David Blaine.

[Brule]

Because sometimes, if a thread festers long enough, we have something that will occupy my time and entertain a bit. Then i can go back home to reality.

[faxiapreta]

how is weightlifting functional if it's not task specific to something?

what were you trying to build weight to function with?

Most people that train know plenty about core development and taking hits is part of IB training and not core strengthening. So, you are lying, or stretching the truth about whatever your claims are.?

We were promoting specificity of training, so yes training to take punches would be part of that.

Additionally, there are specific ways to train the abdominal region so that the musculature is stronger, which gives better ability to absorb the force from blows.

Most people don't strength train the abdominal region in functional manners... as a matter of fact they aren't even doing strength training when they think they are.

[David Jamieson]

We were promoting specificity of training, so yes training to take punches would be part of that.

Additionally, there are specific ways to train the abdominal region so that the musculature is stronger, which gives better ability to absorb the force from blows.

Most people don't strength train the abdominal region in functional manners... as a matter of fact they aren't even doing strength training when they think they are.

You sure said a lot of nothing here.

lifting weight to train to take punches eh? How does that work? Do tell.

additional ways eh? please tell us about those, bearing in mind we are fully aware of medicine ball, standing hits and sparring. I'd like to hear about your secret ways!

Please enlighten us "most people" here how you do it! How is it that you can lift weights and harden your body to withstand strikes? I ask, because this is not my experience with weight lifters. They are strong to be sure, but lack fighter structure and in fact forego one structure set for a set that facilitates lifting.

functional strength development to me is where you actually do what it is your need the strength to do and you make it harder than it is in an organic state.

chain shaking for grip strength and control of limbs, weighted dummy throwing, tire hammering for wrists and grip, actual rolling, lift and toss, etc.

YKW has some good functional strength dev stuff for shuai jiao as well that involves use of weighted poles to increase functional leg strength for sweeps.

so, how does your weightlifting address that and what weight lifting were you doing that counters concussive and repetitive strikes?

inquiring minds want to know.

Or you can shut it down now with a vid of you doing these things?

[faxiapreta]

You sure said a lot of nothing here.

lifting weight to train to take punches eh? How does that work? Do tell.

additional ways eh? please tell us about those, bearing in mind we are fully aware of medicine ball, standing hits and sparring. I'd like to hear about your secret ways!

Please enlighten us "most people" here how you do it! How is it that you can lift weights and harden your body to withstand strikes? I ask, because this is not my experience with weight lifters. They are strong to be sure, but lack fighter structure and in fact forego one structure set for a set that facilitates lifting.

functional strength development to me is where you actually do what it is your need the strength to do and you make it harder than it is in an organic state.

chain shaking for grip strength and control of limbs, weighted dummy throwing, tire hammering for wrists and grip, actual rolling, lift and toss, etc.

YKW has some good functional strength dev stuff for shuai jiao as well that involves use of weighted poles to increase functional leg strength for sweeps.

so, how does your weightlifting address that and what weight lifting were you doing that counters concussive and repetitive strikes?

inquiring minds want to know.

Or you can shut it down now with a vid of you doing these things?

Use enough weight that you can't do more than 6-8 repetitions before failure, cycling the training and progressively increasing the weight so that you cannot do more than 1-3 reps.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMKjemTa5Ig&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gypNWEZ_gdk&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_SJ1xEU7Pk&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xs9yjBCKAV0

[sanjuro_ronin]

Is there anymore functional strength then the world's strongest men ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World%27s_Strongest_Man

Notice that the main core of the majority is from powerlifting as their base.

Just saying...:D

[faxiapreta]

Is there anymore functional strength then the world's strongest men ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World%27s_Strongest_Man

Notice that the main core of the majority is from powerlifting as their base.

Just saying...:D

Functional is specific to the activity.

Training like a power lifter isn't going to do much if you an endurance athlete.

In our case we were highlighting how you could train specifically, based on scientific research, to take abdominal punches.

We simply chose this case of functionality because it was dramatic and easy to demonstrate.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Functional is specific to the activity.

Training like a power lifter isn't going to do much if you an endurance athlete.

In our case we were highlighting how you could train specifically, based on scientific research, to take abdominal punches.

We simply chose this case of functionality because it was dramatic and easy to demonstrate.

To have functional strength you must first BUILD strength.
Or you get cross-fit.

Not to long ago we were moving an old style fridge at a friends, it fell.
No one got hurt but I was the only one able to left it up to where we could all get it up and moving again.
The other guys were bigger than me ( I am only 178lbs) and they workout.
I DL 360 lbs.
Good basic strength begets "functional" strength.

[faxiapreta]

To have functional strength you must first BUILD strength.

You must build it in a way that mimics the activity you want to improve.

A running sprinter's strength building program will be different than a swimming sprinter's program will be different than an MMA fighter's program, will be different than a rock climber's program, etc.

[sanjuro_ronin]

You must build it in a way that mimics the activity you want to improve.

A running sprinter's strength building program will be different than a swimming sprinter's program will be different than an MMA fighter's program, will be different than a rock climber's program, etc.

AFTER the core strength is built.
Walk before we run.

[sanjuro_ronin]

At my old club we had an old timer, a ****o-ryu guy named Joe.
All the ab work he did was 100 reps of abs on the ab board and he used to bounce that baby like it was a trampoline, LOL !!
But you know what he did do that was truly "take a shot in the gut specififc"?
He took shots in the gut.
He would have us drill him with punches and kicks and knees in his gut, full fore and with "emotional content".
3 guys, each guy 1 round of 3 min.
He just moved around and we drilled him hard and as often as we could, which was very often.
He learned how to take a shot, how to take it when he could "deflect" it and how to take it when he had to take it "head on".
THAT was functional ab work.

[JamesC]

I'm on the fence about this, actually.

I used to be a HUGE advocate of Coach Rip's Starting Strength program. I put on 50 lbs, squatted(real squats), deadlifted, shoulder pressed, and benched WAY more than I did before.

I just don't know if the "be strong to be useful" thing works as much anymore. For me, increasing my all-around athleticism is more important than my strength.

Then, again, i'm not a fighter.

Of course, when I was huge, I definitely never had any problems with the detainees. :D It's amazing how much more respect you get when they know you're capable of sticking their head up their own asses.

[David Jamieson]

Use enough weight that you can't do more than 6-8 repetitions before failure, cycling the training and progressively increasing the weight so that you cannot do more than 1-3 reps.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMKjemTa5Ig&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gypNWEZ_gdk&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_SJ1xEU7Pk&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xs9yjBCKAV0

you're joking right?
you don't honestly think that does anything more than sculpt your abs.
Probably good for core strength which in turn increase overall body balance, but strike conditioning?

you must concuss to condition for strikes. condition is part mind as well.
I don't see your scientific method here.

I see a person who is getting caught up in their own fairy takes now. :rolleyes:

[faxiapreta]

All the ab work he did was 100 reps of abs on the ab board and he used to bounce that baby like it was a trampoline, LOL !!.

He was definitely wasting his time with that one.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I'm on the fence about this, actually.

I used to be a HUGE advocate of Coach Rip's Starting Strength program. I put on 50 lbs, squatted(real squats), deadlifted, shoulder pressed, and benched WAY more than I did before.

I just don't know if the "be strong to be useful" thing works as much anymore. For me, increasing my all-around athleticism is more important than my strength.

Then, again, i'm not a fighter.

Of course, when I was huge, I definitely never had any problems with the detainees. :D It's amazing how much more respect you get when they know you're capable of sticking their head up their own asses.

Not a case of either/ or dude.
Build the core then proceed to make it functional.

[David Jamieson]

He was definitely wasting his time with that one.

you are wasting your time with all of those if you think they help you take a punch.

maybe you and your pretty friends can try some of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZ5qN85hPNY

I don't know these guys, but they understand how to strike condition abs using the med ball.

I personally use a different way, but this is it.

[faxiapreta]

you're joking right?
you don't honestly think that does anything more than sculpt your abs.
Probably good for core strength which in turn increase overall body balance, but strike conditioning?

you must concuss to condition for strikes. condition is part mind as well.
I don't see your scientific method here.

I see a person who is getting caught up in their own fairy takes now. :rolleyes:

Scientific method:

1- Train specificity of striking (as I said above)

2- Increased muscle mass leads to increased shock absorption.

3- Increased contractile strength of muscle fiber leads to increased ability to resist injury and absorb shock.

[faxiapreta]

maybe you and your pretty friends can try some of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZ5qN85hPNY.

That's fine. That's part of the specificity of training, although they would do better to actually be taking punches.

[David Jamieson]

Scientific method:

1- Train for striking (as I said above)

2- Increased muscle mass leads to increased shock absorption.

3- Increased contractile strength of muscle fiber leads to increased ability to resist injury and absorb shock.

1- how is decline crunches training for striking?

2 - more mass period = more shock absorption could be fat for pete's sake.

3 - your contraction speed and strength will get a lot better with concussive repetition than it will slow lifting weights in a decline crunch believing you're actually making yourself a hard target...cause you're not.

[David Jamieson]

That's fine. That's part of the specificity of training.

That IS specific training towards conditioned abdominal and oblique muscles for a boxer.

no decline crunches.

understand?

[sanjuro_ronin]

1- how is decline crunches training for striking?

2 - more mass period = more shock absorption could be fat for pete's sake.

3 - your contraction speed and strength will get a lot better with concussive repetition than it will slow lifting weights in a decline crunch believing you're actually making yourself a hard target...cause you're not.

Fat is a great shock absorber.

[JamesC]

Not a case of either/ or dude.
Build the core then proceed to make it functional.

I know that dude.

I'm just saying that while it is definitely faster to do it that way, it isn't NECESSARY. Just expect to take a lot longer. For some, that isn't a problem. Some people just enjoy the ride.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I know that dude.

I'm just saying that while it is definitely faster to do it that way, it isn't NECESSARY. Just expect to take a lot longer. For some, that isn't a problem. Some people just enjoy the ride.

Very true, for some it is far more fun to build functional strength by doing the process all at once, like gymnasts for example.
There are many ways to skin a cat.
I prefer the way I sated because I find it carries over into the real world far better.
Know what I mean?

[JamesC]

Very true, for some it is far more fun to build functional strength by doing the process all at once, like gymnasts for example.
There are many ways to skin a cat.
I prefer the way I sated because I find it carries over into the real world far better.
Know what I mean?

For sure. Refer to my previous post about detainees. :D

[faxiapreta]

1- how is decline crunches training for striking?

Improving the strength of the rectus abdominus and internal and external obliques increases the ability to take a punch.


more mass period = more shock absorption could be fat for pete's sake.

Actually, you are right. More padding = more shock absorption. A fat person who also does this type of training will end up with even more capability to take punches.


your contraction speed and strength will get a lot better with concussive repetition than it will slow lifting weights in a decline crunch believing you're actually making yourself a hard target...cause you're not.

Actually, the concentric contraction should be fast, while the eccentric should be slow.

[faxiapreta]

That IS specific training towards conditioned abdominal and oblique muscles for a boxer.

no decline crunches.

understand?

Decline, flat, doesn't matter as long as the rectus abdominus is contracting and flexing the spine with enough load to meet the requirements for strength and hypertrophy.

Same with the internal and external obliques.

[David Jamieson]

Decline, flat, doesn't matter as long as the rectus abdominus is contracting and flexing the spine with enough load to meet the requirements for strength and hypertrophy.

Same with the internal and external obliques.

This is not strike conditioning. It is ab building, toning, strengthening, fat burning.

You haven't explained how that will withstand force effectively.
You have to contract fast and hard and against repetitive concussive force to acquire the ability to do so as instantly as possible.

crunches do NOT facilitate that. they are subsidiary to overall strength and not specific to withstanding force.

[faxiapreta]

Very true, for some it is far more fun to build functional strength by doing the process all at once, like gymnasts for example.
There are many ways to skin a cat.
I prefer the way I sated because I find it carries over into the real world far better.
Know what I mean?

Depends on what you mean by real world. If you really wanted to design a program for your real world, it should be around the specific things you do in that world.

If you lift refrigerators, your training should take that into account. If you are a rock climber, it should take that into account.

You can train general "core" strengthening, but you probably won't get as functionally strong in a specific activity as someone who does his strenthening around that activity.

[David Jamieson]

You can train general "core" strengthening, but you probably won't get as functionally strong in a specific activity as someone who does his strenthening around that activity.
That you say this has me baffled as to how you are positioning your situps as strike conditioning.

[faxiapreta]

This is not strike conditioning. It is ab building, toning, strengthening, fat burning.

You haven't explained how that will withstand force effectively.
You have to contract fast and hard and against repetitive concussive force to acquire the ability to do so as instantly as possible.

crunches do NOT facilitate that. they are subsidiary to overall strength and not specific to withstanding force.

As I said at least twice before, yes you have to train specifically to take strikes (which is why actually taking those strikes from an unpadded fist is the best way).

Additionally, increases in strength and muscle mass have been shown to increase shock absorption and decrease injury risk.

The muscles should be trained in a way that mimics the contraction done with the punch, which is a fast contraction with spinal flexion, then held isometrically.

A stronger muscle, wherever it is, will always be able to withstand a higher force than a weaker one.

[faxiapreta]

That you say this has me baffled as to how you are positioning your situps as strike conditioning.

Not situps. Contraction under specific loads for specific speeds with spinal flexion and rotation.

[faxiapreta]

BTW, like most things, taking a punch to the abdominal area is mostly technique.

[David Jamieson]

As I said at least twice before, yes you have to train specifically to take strikes (which is why actually taking those strikes from an unpadded fist is the best way).

Additionally, increases in strength and muscle mass have been shown to increase shock absorption and decrease injury risk.

Hey, the sky IS blue when it's not cloudy! UNless it's night, then it's sort of an azure colour.


The muscles should be trained in a way that mimics the contraction done with the punch, which is a fast contraction with spinal flexion, then held isometrically.

A stronger muscle, wherever it is, will always be able to withstand a higher force than a weaker one.

first, the way to to mimic the contraction is by not mimicking but actually doing the contractions with incoming force.

second, a stronger muscle can withstand more force? really? what if it's not flexed? also, they both cut at the same rate.

and what muscle? fascia or skeletal?

[faxiapreta]

first, the way to to mimic the contraction is by not mimicking but actually doing the contractions with incoming force.

That is part of the training, as I said


second, a stronger muscle can withstand more force? really? what if it's not flexed? also, they both cut at the same rate.

More muscle mass = more shock absorption.

Increased contractile strength = more shock absorption.


and what muscle? fascia or skeletal?

Skeletal muscle.

There's no such thing as fascia muscle.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Depends on what you mean by real world. If you really wanted to design a program for your real world, it should be around the specific things you do in that world.

If you lift refrigerators, your training should take that into account. If you are a rock climber, it should take that into account.

You can train general "core" strengthening, but you probably won't get as functionally strong in a specific activity as someone who does his strenthening around that activity.

By real world I mean every day crap that one may have to do:
Lift heavy crap,sprint to the bus, ***** slap some old lady in the grocery store.

[David Jamieson]

That is part of the training, as I said



More muscle mass = more shock absorption.

Increased contractile strength = more shock absorption.



Skeletal muscle.

There's no such thing as fascia muscle.

To get more muscle mass, you need to stretch the fibrous connective tissue that is fascia which is a network of fibrous tissue, capable of contraction that wraps all skeletal muscle.

It is key in muscle growth because what you do with fascia is what will determine muscle growth. It is also key to contractility overall in musculature.

but again... still not specific to concussive repetitive force being the way to conditioning for strikes over and above virtually any other method, especially those that have no concussive repetitive forces.

[wenshu]

Not situps. Contraction under specific loads for specific speeds with spinal flexion and rotation.

Without video of you doing a sit up I really don't understand why anyone should take you as any kind of authority on strength and conditioning.

Just one sit up.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I think the point that Faixa is trying to make is that the continous tension on the decline crunches, strengthens the muscles to help with the contraction while getting hit.
I know that when I train getting hit, it;s not just a contraction per hit, but a constant contraction to receive the mulitple blows.

[wenshu]

Forearm planks for time.

After you can do it on the floor for more than a minute, balance your feet on a small medicine ball.

Then both your feet and forearms.

[David Jamieson]

I think the point that Faixa is trying to make is that the continous tension on the decline crunches, strengthens the muscles to help with the contraction while getting hit.
I know that when I train getting hit, it;s not just a contraction per hit, but a constant contraction to receive the mulitple blows.

How many you gonna take? You just standing there? lol

[faxiapreta]

To get more muscle mass, you need to stretch the fibrous connective tissue that is fascia which is a network of fibrous tissue, capable of contraction that wraps all skeletal muscle.

The only contractile fibers are the myofibrils, which are the basic units of muscles.

To get more muscle mass, you need to put the contractile fibers under stress by making them perform work with an external load.

To maximize muscle mass, you need to do this with specific loads for specific times and or repetitions with specific rest intervals.


It is key in muscle growth because what you do with fascia is what will determine muscle growth. It is also key to contractility overall in musculature.

The key to muscle growth is how you overload the muscles.

Stretching has nothing to do with it.

[sanjuro_ronin]

How many you gonna take? You just standing there? lol

Sometimes we get caught in the corner and it sucks !!

[faxiapreta]

*** Waits while Jimerson furiously scours the internet to learn about muscle fiber contraction, overload, and hypertrophy ***

[wenshu]

He is probably doing sit ups while you read about doing sit ups.

[David Jamieson]

*** Waits while Jimerson furiously scours the internet to learn about muscle fiber contraction, overload, and hypertrophy ***

keep waiting, and while you're waiting, do some research into MODERN knowledge why don't you?

Then you would know that Fascia indeed has cells that are capable of contracting.

Update time for you I guess.

I'll wait.

nah, I won't, just go upgrade your knowledge or something before you dig your hole way too deep.

Oh, you'd also need to know that in order for muscle to have a place to grow that fascia must be stretched to accommodate that growth. If you were dealing with this century's knowledge on the subject, you would know that there is extensive study around this.

[faxiapreta]

keep waiting, and while you're waiting, do some research into MODERN knowledge why don't you?

Then you would know that Fascia indeed has cells that are capable of contracting.

Update time for you I guess.

I'll wait.

nah, I won't, just go upgrade your knowledge or something before you dig your hole way too deep.

Modern exercise science is clear that the main contractile components are the actin and myosin in the myofibrils. There is a very small amount research showing that there may possibly be an independent contractile ability of the fascia. This research is far from conclusive.

That being said, the myofibril units are still, by far, the major contractile components of muscle.

Additionally, overloading the muscles, not stretching, is the main factor in hypertrophy.

Any "stretching" of the fascia is a result of the hypertrophy of the fibers underneath, and is not actually stretching, but a reforming of the tissue.

[faxiapreta]

BTW, LOL @ Jimerson pretending to try to know what he is talking about when he thought that fascia was a type of muscle.

[David Jamieson]

BTW, LOL @ Jimerson pretending to try to know what he is talking about when he thought that fascia was a type of muscle.

laugh away.

when you're up to date, maybe you'll have time to dry your eyes for a moment?

I dunno.

all i know is that what you are saying isn't accurate as far as strike conditioning goes.

so, meh, what can I do? keep doing situps and believing that will make you the man I guess. lol

[faxiapreta]

laugh away.

when you're up to date, maybe you'll have time to dry your eyes for a moment?

I dunno.

all i know is that what you are saying isn't accurate as far as strike conditioning goes.

so, meh, what can I do? keep doing situps and believing that will make you the man I guess. lol

Um... let's see. Strengthening the muscles under progressing loads in the same manner in which they will be contracted when struck will not help in being able to take a strike.

On the other hand, striking a surface in a manner that is completely different than how you will strike in a fight will help you in striking in a fight.

OK, got it.

[YiQuanOne]

I thought we were supposed to ignore the village troll.

I think you are smoken something.

[IronWeasel]

He is probably doing sit ups while you read about doing sit ups.



Lol. Comedy gold! :)

[tallmike]

Fascia is not a muscle. David Jameson is wrong.

[Lucas]

Fascia is not a muscle. David Jameson is wrong.

lol u r late....

[bawang]

david jamieson is wrong

[YouKnowWho]

david jamieson is wrong

How dare that you said our Kung Fu brother is wrong and the foreign invader is right? when Japanese invaded China, all Chinese should unit together and fight against the "Japanese invasion".

[Lucas]

bawang is canadian!!!!

:D

[SPJ]

after a while, all the questions are answered.

members know other members.

the forum serves as a social function more than anything else.

nowadays

we have my space, Facebook and twitters as social networks as well.

except we post under pseudo name in forums.

:)

[bawang]

How dare that you said our Kung Fu brother is wrong and the foreign invader is right? when Japanese invaded China, all Chinese should unit together and fight against the "Japanese invasion".

david jamieson is not my kung fu brother

david ross is my kung fu brother

[Violent Designs]

david jamieson is not my kung fu brother

david ross is my kung fu brother

black bear is my kung fu brother

[bawang]

david ross seven
black bear zero
david jamieson negative three

[B.Tunks]

I remember several years back (late '90s?) there was a world-class Russian boxer who fought out of Australia (I can't remember his name for the life of me) who claimed to have trained IP. He claimed that it helped him.

Kostya Tszyu

[PalmStriker]

Show me some fights where someone strikes effectively in a downward motion like is done with IP training.

I doubt you will be able to.




Carry over, better fighter... whatever, IP does neither in a way that isn't already done more effectively by fighters who compete.

As for your other comments, since the thread is gone, I'll not comment on that, other than to say I remember it differently. Double palmstrike to each side of your body, low squat, after knocking opponent out of the air (flying kick) with a crane-style jump kick. This forceful palmstrike is practiced as a finishing move to force the rest of the air out of opponents lungs, having landed on his back. The force of the palmstrike is straight downward to the earth that will claim you in the end.

[faxiapreta]

Double palmstrike to each side of your body, low squat, after knocking opponent out of the air (flying kick) with a crane-style jump kick. This forceful palmstrike is practiced as a finishing move to force the rest of the air out of opponents lungs, having landed on his back. The force of the palmstrike is straight downward to the earth that will claim you in the end.

I didn't say give me a bunch of theoretical nonsense that can't be done.

[Lokhopkuen]

I like it here because of all of the nice polite people, the sense of camaraderie that surrounds our common shared interests. Let us not forget all of the positive harmonious feedback to even the most absurdly far fetched training theories and methodologies?

Such a loving mature supportive atmosphere and a warm feeling of community ahhhh.....

Brings tears, warm tears of joy:D

[Scott R. Brown]

SUCK ON THIS!!!!:p:p:p

FASCIA IS ABLE TO CONTRACT IN A SMOOTH MUSCLE-LIKE MANNER AND THEREBY INFLUENCE MUSCULOSKELETAL MECHANICS (http://www.fasciaresearch.com/WCLBP/Barcelona/Schleip_Fascia%20is%20able%20to%20Contract%20in%20 Smooth%20Muscle-Like%20Manner.pdf)

"....we demonstrate the presence of myofibroblasts in normaal human fasciae, particularly the fascia lata, plantar fascia, and the lumbar fascia. Density was found to be highest in the lumbar fascia and seems to be positively related to physical activity. For in vitro contraction tests we suspended strips of lumbar fascia from rats in an organ bath and measured for responsiveness to potential contractile agonists. With the HI antagonist mepyramine there were clear contractile responses; whereas the nitric oxide donator glyceryltrinitrate induced relaxation. The measured contraction forces are strong enough to impact upon musculoslceletal mechanics when assuming a similar contractility in vivo."

Wiki: Deep Fascia Contraction (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_fascia)

Deep fascia can contract. What happens during the fight-or-flight response is an example of rapid fascial contraction . In response to a real or imagined threat to the organism, the body responds with a temporary increase in the stiffness of the fascia. Bolstered with tensioned fascia, people are able to perform extraordinary feats of strength and speed under emergency conditions.[6] How fascia contracts is still not well understood, but appears to involve the activity of myofibroblasts. Myofibroblasts are fascial cells that are created as a response to mechanical stress. In a two step process, fibroblasts differentiate into proto-myofibroblasts that with continued mechanical stress, become differentiated myofibroblasts.[7] Fibroblasts cannot contract, but myofibroblasts are able to contract in a smooth muscle-like manner.[8]

The deep fascia can also relax. By monitoring changes in muscular tension, joint position, rate of movement, pressure, and vibration, mechanoreceptors in the deep fascia are capable of initiating relaxation. Deep fascia can relax rapidly in response to sudden muscular overload or rapid movements. Golgi tendon organs operate as a feedback mechanism by causing myofascial relaxation before muscle force becomes so great that tendons might be torn. Pacinian corpuscles sense changes in pressure and vibration to monitor the rate of acceleration of movement. They will initiate a sudden relaxatory response if movement happens too fast.[9] Deep fascia can also relax slowly as some mechanoreceptors respond to changes over longer timescales. Unlike the Golgi tendon organs, Golgi receptors report joint position independent of muscle contraction. This helps the body to know where the bones are at any given moment. Ruffini endings respond to regular stretching and to slow sustained pressure. In addition to initiating fascial relaxation, they contribute to full-body relaxation by inhibiting sympathetic activity which slows down heart rate and respiration.[10][11]

When contraction persists, fascia will respond with the addition of new material. Fibroblasts secrete collagen and other proteins into the extracellular matrix where they bind to existing proteins, making the composition thicker and less extensible. Although this potentiates the tensile strength of the fascia, it can unfortunately restrict the very structures it aims to protect. The pathologies resulting from fascial restrictions range from a mild decrease in joint range of motion to severe fascial binding of muscles, nerves and blood vessels, as in compartment syndrome of the leg. However, if fascial contraction can be interrupted long enough, a reverse form of fascial remodeling occurs. The fascia will normalize its composition and tone and the extra material that was generated by prolonged contraction will be ingested by macrophages within the extracellular matrix.[12]

Like mechanoreceptors, chemoreceptors in deep fascia also have the ability to promote fascial relaxation. We tend to think of relaxation as a good thing, however fascia needs to maintain some degree of tension. This is especially true of ligaments. To maintain joint integrity, they need to provide adequate tension between bony surfaces. If a ligament is too lax, injury becomes more likely. Certain chemicals, including hormones, can influence the composition of the ligaments. An example of this is seen in the menstrual cycle, where hormones are secreted to create changes in the uterine and pelvic floor fascia. The hormones are not site-specific, however, and chemoreceptors in other ligaments of the body can be receptive to them as well. The ligaments of the knee may be one of the areas where this happens, as a significant association between the ovulatory phase of the menstrual cycle and an increased likelihood for an anterior cruciate ligament injury has been demonstrated.[13][14]

[Here is an item of interest!]

It has been suggested that manipulation of the fascia by acupuncture needles is responsible for the physical sensation of qi flowing along meridians in the body,[15] even though there is no physically verifiable anatomical or histological basis for the existence of acupuncture points or meridians.[16][17]

Please pardon me while I

ROTFLMAO!!!!

AT ALL YOU NINCOMPOOPS!!!!!


Yeah! I said POOPS!!!!!:p

[Scott R. Brown]

I like it here because of all of the nice polite people, the sense of camaraderie that surrounds our common shared interests. Let us not forget all of the positive harmonious feedback to even the most absurdly far fetched training theories and methodologies?

Such a loving mature supportive atmosphere and a warm feeling of community ahhhh.....

Brings tears, warm tears of joy:D

We are all so fortunate to have such a warm and compassionate person such as yourself keeping loving watch over us all!

Thank YOU, and the God you may or may not worship, for giving us such a Blessing as YOU!! <sniff....sniff!>:p:D

[David Jamieson]

Scott, thank you, I was fully aware of a lot of that material.
It's a big deal these days for a lot of people who are into bodywork at some level.

But, my sig line says a lot... lol

If ya get my inference. :p

[Scott R. Brown]

Scott, thank you, I was fully aware of a lot of that material.
It's a big deal these days for a lot of people who are into bodywork at some level.

But, my sig line says a lot... lol

If ya get my inference. :p

<sniff...sniff..>

I feel like we are buddies now!!;)

[Iron_Eagle_76]

<sniff...sniff..>

I feel like we are buddies now!!;)


http://emmittandrick.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/dumb-and-dumber3.jpg

:D

[sanjuro_ronin]

The first sign of smarts is admitting that we don't know everything.

[Brule]

http://thumbnails.hulu.com/8/839/26285_512x288_manicured__ZuXw0B6a80KUQSAaUb+4OA.jp g

[sanjuro_ronin]

SUCK ON THIS!!!!:p:p:p

FASCIA IS ABLE TO CONTRACT IN A SMOOTH MUSCLE-LIKE MANNER AND THEREBY INFLUENCE MUSCULOSKELETAL MECHANICS (http://www.fasciaresearch.com/WCLBP/Barcelona/Schleip_Fascia%20is%20able%20to%20Contract%20in%20 Smooth%20Muscle-Like%20Manner.pdf)

"....we demonstrate the presence of myofibroblasts in normaal human fasciae, particularly the fascia lata, plantar fascia, and the lumbar fascia. Density was found to be highest in the lumbar fascia and seems to be positively related to physical activity. For in vitro contraction tests we suspended strips of lumbar fascia from rats in an organ bath and measured for responsiveness to potential contractile agonists. With the HI antagonist mepyramine there were clear contractile responses; whereas the nitric oxide donator glyceryltrinitrate induced relaxation. The measured contraction forces are strong enough to impact upon musculoslceletal mechanics when assuming a similar contractility in vivo."

Wiki: Deep Fascia Contraction (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_fascia)

Deep fascia can contract. What happens during the fight-or-flight response is an example of rapid fascial contraction . In response to a real or imagined threat to the organism, the body responds with a temporary increase in the stiffness of the fascia. Bolstered with tensioned fascia, people are able to perform extraordinary feats of strength and speed under emergency conditions.[6] How fascia contracts is still not well understood, but appears to involve the activity of myofibroblasts. Myofibroblasts are fascial cells that are created as a response to mechanical stress. In a two step process, fibroblasts differentiate into proto-myofibroblasts that with continued mechanical stress, become differentiated myofibroblasts.[7] Fibroblasts cannot contract, but myofibroblasts are able to contract in a smooth muscle-like manner.[8]

The deep fascia can also relax. By monitoring changes in muscular tension, joint position, rate of movement, pressure, and vibration, mechanoreceptors in the deep fascia are capable of initiating relaxation. Deep fascia can relax rapidly in response to sudden muscular overload or rapid movements. Golgi tendon organs operate as a feedback mechanism by causing myofascial relaxation before muscle force becomes so great that tendons might be torn. Pacinian corpuscles sense changes in pressure and vibration to monitor the rate of acceleration of movement. They will initiate a sudden relaxatory response if movement happens too fast.[9] Deep fascia can also relax slowly as some mechanoreceptors respond to changes over longer timescales. Unlike the Golgi tendon organs, Golgi receptors report joint position independent of muscle contraction. This helps the body to know where the bones are at any given moment. Ruffini endings respond to regular stretching and to slow sustained pressure. In addition to initiating fascial relaxation, they contribute to full-body relaxation by inhibiting sympathetic activity which slows down heart rate and respiration.[10][11]

When contraction persists, fascia will respond with the addition of new material. Fibroblasts secrete collagen and other proteins into the extracellular matrix where they bind to existing proteins, making the composition thicker and less extensible. Although this potentiates the tensile strength of the fascia, it can unfortunately restrict the very structures it aims to protect. The pathologies resulting from fascial restrictions range from a mild decrease in joint range of motion to severe fascial binding of muscles, nerves and blood vessels, as in compartment syndrome of the leg. However, if fascial contraction can be interrupted long enough, a reverse form of fascial remodeling occurs. The fascia will normalize its composition and tone and the extra material that was generated by prolonged contraction will be ingested by macrophages within the extracellular matrix.[12]

Like mechanoreceptors, chemoreceptors in deep fascia also have the ability to promote fascial relaxation. We tend to think of relaxation as a good thing, however fascia needs to maintain some degree of tension. This is especially true of ligaments. To maintain joint integrity, they need to provide adequate tension between bony surfaces. If a ligament is too lax, injury becomes more likely. Certain chemicals, including hormones, can influence the composition of the ligaments. An example of this is seen in the menstrual cycle, where hormones are secreted to create changes in the uterine and pelvic floor fascia. The hormones are not site-specific, however, and chemoreceptors in other ligaments of the body can be receptive to them as well. The ligaments of the knee may be one of the areas where this happens, as a significant association between the ovulatory phase of the menstrual cycle and an increased likelihood for an anterior cruciate ligament injury has been demonstrated.[13][14]

[Here is an item of interest!]

It has been suggested that manipulation of the fascia by acupuncture needles is responsible for the physical sensation of qi flowing along meridians in the body,[15] even though there is no physically verifiable anatomical or histological basis for the existence of acupuncture points or meridians.[16][17]

Please pardon me while I

ROTFLMAO!!!!

AT ALL YOU NINCOMPOOPS!!!!!


Yeah! I said POOPS!!!!!:p

Too add as a starting point:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascia


Scott has won the interweb and teabagged it silly !

[David Jamieson]

<sniff...sniff..>

I feel like we are buddies now!!;)

We may now share a dram and smile.
That seems amenable.
:p

[Scott R. Brown]

The first sign of smarts is admitting that we don't know everything.

And PROUD of it!!

:D

step

[lkfmdc]

SUCK ON THIS!!!!:p:p:p

FASCIA IS ABLE TO CONTRACT IN A SMOOTH MUSCLE-LIKE MANNER AND THEREBY INFLUENCE MUSCULOSKELETAL MECHANICS (http://www.fasciaresearch.com/WCLBP/Barcelona/Schleip_Fascia%20is%20able%20to%20Contract%20in%20 Smooth%20Muscle-Like%20Manner.pdf)

"....we demonstrate the presence of myofibroblasts in normaal human fasciae, particularly the fascia lata, plantar fascia, and the lumbar fascia. Density was found to be highest in the lumbar fascia and seems to be positively related to physical activity. For in vitro contraction tests we suspended strips of lumbar fascia from rats in an organ bath and measured for responsiveness to potential contractile agonists. With the HI antagonist mepyramine there were clear contractile responses; whereas the nitric oxide donator glyceryltrinitrate induced relaxation. The measured contraction forces are strong enough to impact upon musculoslceletal mechanics when assuming a similar contractility in vivo."

Wiki: Deep Fascia Contraction (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_fascia)

Deep fascia can contract. What happens during the fight-or-flight response is an example of rapid fascial contraction . In response to a real or imagined threat to the organism, the body responds with a temporary increase in the stiffness of the fascia. Bolstered with tensioned fascia, people are able to perform extraordinary feats of strength and speed under emergency conditions.[6] How fascia contracts is still not well understood, but appears to involve the activity of myofibroblasts. Myofibroblasts are fascial cells that are created as a response to mechanical stress. In a two step process, fibroblasts differentiate into proto-myofibroblasts that with continued mechanical stress, become differentiated myofibroblasts.[7] Fibroblasts cannot contract, but myofibroblasts are able to contract in a smooth muscle-like manner.[8]

The deep fascia can also relax. By monitoring changes in muscular tension, joint position, rate of movement, pressure, and vibration, mechanoreceptors in the deep fascia are capable of initiating relaxation. Deep fascia can relax rapidly in response to sudden muscular overload or rapid movements. Golgi tendon organs operate as a feedback mechanism by causing myofascial relaxation before muscle force becomes so great that tendons might be torn. Pacinian corpuscles sense changes in pressure and vibration to monitor the rate of acceleration of movement. They will initiate a sudden relaxatory response if movement happens too fast.[9] Deep fascia can also relax slowly as some mechanoreceptors respond to changes over longer timescales. Unlike the Golgi tendon organs, Golgi receptors report joint position independent of muscle contraction. This helps the body to know where the bones are at any given moment. Ruffini endings respond to regular stretching and to slow sustained pressure. In addition to initiating fascial relaxation, they contribute to full-body relaxation by inhibiting sympathetic activity which slows down heart rate and respiration.[10][11]

When contraction persists, fascia will respond with the addition of new material. Fibroblasts secrete collagen and other proteins into the extracellular matrix where they bind to existing proteins, making the composition thicker and less extensible. Although this potentiates the tensile strength of the fascia, it can unfortunately restrict the very structures it aims to protect. The pathologies resulting from fascial restrictions range from a mild decrease in joint range of motion to severe fascial binding of muscles, nerves and blood vessels, as in compartment syndrome of the leg. However, if fascial contraction can be interrupted long enough, a reverse form of fascial remodeling occurs. The fascia will normalize its composition and tone and the extra material that was generated by prolonged contraction will be ingested by macrophages within the extracellular matrix.[12]

Like mechanoreceptors, chemoreceptors in deep fascia also have the ability to promote fascial relaxation. We tend to think of relaxation as a good thing, however fascia needs to maintain some degree of tension. This is especially true of ligaments. To maintain joint integrity, they need to provide adequate tension between bony surfaces. If a ligament is too lax, injury becomes more likely. Certain chemicals, including hormones, can influence the composition of the ligaments. An example of this is seen in the menstrual cycle, where hormones are secreted to create changes in the uterine and pelvic floor fascia. The hormones are not site-specific, however, and chemoreceptors in other ligaments of the body can be receptive to them as well. The ligaments of the knee may be one of the areas where this happens, as a significant association between the ovulatory phase of the menstrual cycle and an increased likelihood for an anterior cruciate ligament injury has been demonstrated.[13][14]

[Here is an item of interest!]

It has been suggested that manipulation of the fascia by acupuncture needles is responsible for the physical sensation of qi flowing along meridians in the body,[15] even though there is no physically verifiable anatomical or histological basis for the existence of acupuncture points or meridians.[16][17]

Please pardon me while I

ROTFLMAO!!!!

AT ALL YOU NINCOMPOOPS!!!!!


Yeah! I said POOPS!!!!!:p

Sorry but that was simply too easy to read. Perhaps you can get TGY to re-write it in a way that will all cause us to weep tears of blood

[Scott R. Brown]

Sorry but that was simply too easy to read. Perhaps you can get TGY to re-write it in a way that will all cause us to weep tears of blood

He is hiding!

I think he is mad at me! He won't even answer my HILARIOUS PM!

[David Jamieson]

He is hiding!

I think he is mad at me! He won't even answer my HILARIOUS PM!

Maybe he is vacationing?

It happens. :p

[lkfmdc]

He is hiding!



"TGY's not here man...."

[faxiapreta]

When contraction persists, fascia will respond with the addition of new material. Fibroblasts secrete collagen and other proteins into the extracellular matrix where they bind to existing proteins, making the composition thicker and less extensible. Although this potentiates the tensile strength of the fascia, it can unfortunately restrict the very structures it aims to protect. The pathologies resulting from fascial restrictions range from a mild decrease in joint range of motion to severe fascial binding of muscles, nerves and blood vessels, as in compartment syndrome of the leg. However, if fascial contraction can be interrupted long enough, a reverse form of fascial remodeling occurs. The fascia will normalize its composition and tone and the extra material that was generated by prolonged contraction will be ingested by macrophages within the extracellular matrix.[12]

Like mechanoreceptors, chemoreceptors in deep fascia also have the ability to promote fascial relaxation. We tend to think of relaxation as a good thing, however fascia needs to maintain some degree of tension. This is especially true of ligaments. To maintain joint integrity, they need to provide adequate tension between bony surfaces. If a ligament is too lax, injury becomes more likely. Certain chemicals, including hormones, can influence the composition of the ligaments. An example of this is seen in the menstrual cycle, where hormones are secreted to create changes in the uterine and pelvic floor fascia. The hormones are not site-specific, however, and chemoreceptors in other ligaments of the body can be receptive to them as well. The ligaments of the knee may be one of the areas where this happens, as a significant association between the ovulatory phase of the menstrual cycle and an increased likelihood for an anterior cruciate ligament injury has been demonstrated.[13][14]


Thank you Scott for showing that Jimerson was wrong. Thanks for providing the study showing that stretching of the fascia, not only is not the mechanism for increasing size, but that stretching of the fascia is actually a bad thing and increases injury risk.

Thanks for explaining that Jimerson was wrong and showing that remodeling of the fascia is what occurs as the muscle fibers increase in size.

Oh, yeah, also thanks for reminding him again that fascia is not a type of muscle as he thought in the beginning.

[Scott R. Brown]

Thank you Scott for showing that Jimerson was wrong. Thanks for providing the study showing that stretching of the fascia, not only is not the mechanism for increasing size, but that stretching of the fascia is actually a bad thing and increases injury risk.

Thanks for explaining that Jimerson was wrong and showing that remodeling of the fascia is what occurs as the muscle fibers increase in size.

Oh, yeah, also thanks for reminding him again that fascia is not a type of muscle as he thought in the beginning.

You are a completely clueless aren't you?

The fascia must be released i.e. stretched, rubbed, massaged, myofacial released, in order to loosen up the adhesions that occur over time due to "prolonged contractions", that is, "WEIGHT TRAINING"!

"The pathologies resulting from fascial restrictions range from a mild decrease in joint range of motion to severe fascial binding of muscles, nerves and blood vessels, as in compartment syndrome of the leg. However, if fascial contraction can be interrupted long enough, a reverse form of fascial remodeling occurs. The fascia will normalize its composition...."

If you do not loosen the adhesions it restricts further muscle development!

You are doing a poor job covering up for your own FAIL!!!!!!!!:p

[Scott R. Brown]

Oh Yeah! And this:

["....myofibroblasts are able to contract in a smooth muscle-like manner."

[Scott R. Brown]

Maybe he is vacationing?

It happens. :p

I didn't give him permission to go on vacation!

Did YOU give him permission to go on vacation?

HEY ROSS!!!! DID YOU GIVE TGY PERMISSION TO GO ON VACATION????:confused:

[SimonM]

Sorry Scott, my bad. I gave him permission. :cool:

[Scott R. Brown]

Sorry Scott, my bad. I gave him permission. :cool:

Well THANKS for letting the rest of us know!:mad:

[faxiapreta]

This:


"The pathologies resulting from fascial restrictions range from a mild decrease in joint range of motion to severe fascial binding of muscles, nerves and blood vessels, as in compartment syndrome of the leg. However, if fascial contraction can be interrupted long enough, a reverse form of fascial remodeling occurs. The fascia will normalize its composition...."

does not equal this:


The fascia must be released i.e. stretched, rubbed, massaged, myofacial released, in order to loosen up the adhesions that occur over time due to "prolonged contractions", that is, "WEIGHT TRAINING"!

[faxiapreta]

Oh Yeah! And this:

["....myofibroblasts are able to contract in a smooth muscle-like manner."

Exactly. And smooth muscle does not hypertrophy due to training.

Thanks for further supporting the point.

[Scott R. Brown]

I'm not going to spell it out for you because you are as dense as Razjaunita!

You only see what you want to see. Read the articles CAREFULLY!

If you can't figure it out, it is because you don't want to, which confirms your status as TROLL!

[taai gihk yahn]

how a topic as interesting as the tensegrity-based morphological properties of connective tissue (CT) can be reduced to an "I'm right / no, you're wrong" back-and-forth in regards to it's contractile-like properties; honestly, I think that you are all missing the intended point of the article, but hey, whatever :rolleyes:

[faxiapreta]

how a topic as interesting as the tensegrity-based morphological properties of connective tissue (CT) can be reduced to an "I'm right / no, you're wrong" back-and-forth in regards to it's contractile-like properties; honestly, I think that you are all missing the intended point of the article, but hey, whatever :rolleyes:


Questions:


Is stretched, rubbed, massaged, or myofacial release necessary for hypertrophy?

Is there any research that it even contributes to hypertrophy?

What, in your opinion, would be the contribution of the contractile producing forces of the fascia compared to that of the myfibrils?

[lkfmdc]

HEY ROSS!!!! DID YOU GIVE TGY PERMISSION TO GO ON VACATION????:confused:

ever since my pointy stick went dull, I've had no control over the crazy man, I tried banana's but he ate the whole bunch and disarmed me

[Scott R. Brown]

ever since my pointy stick went dull, I've had no control over the crazy man, I tried banana's but he ate the whole bunch and disarmed me

Ahhh!

I see the problem....

once they figure out your attack you must innovate and try something new and unpredictable....try this....

approach him performing a high stepping prance and slap him upside the face with a dead fish!

I have found this method particularly effective when executed next to a canal!

[GeneChing]

ever since my pointy stick went dull, I've had no control over the crazy man, I tried banana's but he ate the whole bunch and disarmed me Have you tried loganberries?

[lkfmdc]

Have you tried loganberries?

truly we have corrupted poor Gene Ching to the core

[GeneChing]

...this is my recovery. :p

Honestly, there's a part of the martial silliness here that balances the martial madness I face at my job here, so it's all good.

[lkfmdc]

More than two posts by Gene in a day, the office must be closed / slow / on fire / invaded by female ninjas

[Scott R. Brown]

More than two posts by Gene in a day, the office must be closed / slow / on fire / invaded by female ninjas

If the office was invaded by female ninjas he would be too busy to be posting anything......I know I would be!:D:p:p:p

[PalmStriker]

I didn't say give me a bunch of theoretical nonsense that can't be done.
This I've done against opponent in sparring match (Black Belt Status KuK Sul, Marine Nam Vet) I anticipated flying kick attack and intercepted with Crane jump kick followed immediately with leap to advance palmstrike before opponent could recover. No biggy, sparring match so I didn't have to stop his heart (Form: Dragon Returns to Earth). * You can go back to your dreamworld now. Sounds interesting/not. :D My own Weight: 190 lbs, Forearms: 13 inch circumference, Skeletal X-ray analysis: heavy.

[PalmStriker]

Oh yeah, I like it here because of all the Chinese stuff! :)

[faxiapreta]

This I've done against opponent in sparring match (Black Belt Status KuK Sul, Marine Nam Vet) I anticipated flying kick attack and intercepted with Crane jump kick followed immediately with leap to advance palmstrike before opponent could recover. No biggy, sparring match so I didn't have to stop his heart (Form: Dragon Returns to Earth). * You can go back to your dreamworld now. Sounds interesting/not. :D My own Weight: 190 lbs, Forearms: 13 inch circumference, Skeletal X-ray analysis: heavy.

Nice fantasy story, bro.

[SPJ]

according to kung fu panda II

it is all about inner peace.

what are you

who are you

--

attaining inner peace at young age with a good teacher

etc etc

:)

[David Jamieson]

inner peace?

if we had that we wouldn't practice martial arts to find it... :p

[Northwind]

...snip..
approach him performing a high stepping prance and slap him upside the face with a dead fish!


I thought that was how you played "Spot the Loony" :P

[GeneChing]

More than two posts by Gene in a day, the office must be closed / slow / on fire / invaded by female ninjas
If only. It's Team Trials this weekend in San Jose (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1107175#post1107175) so there's been a parade of VIPs through the office here. It's cool because I just got to meet another 9 duan holder, and they are always fascinating. It's work because we're also up against some big deadlines.

Then, of course, there's the forum shenanigans...talk about your time suck...:rolleyes:

[Lucas]

oh wow gene you just gave me a brilliant idea...mauahahaha....i'll dress my new roomate up as a ninja and enter her this year!!!! wowzers scooby

[GeneChing]

...you, of all people here, are late to the boat. NINJASTAR (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=58511) is all about dressing the ladies up in ninja suits. duh. I mean, props for the zombie ninja and all, but a fetish is a fetish. ;)

Actually, it's all about selling ninja gear. (http://www.martialartsmart.com/ninja-styles.html) shhhh.

[SPJ]

inner peace?

if we had that we wouldn't practice martial arts to find it... :p

and no eating strange noodle or stranger's noodle

:D

[Lucas]

i know, i know....this year, if i can convince her, its on!!! she's pretty girly but who doesnt love dressing up as a Ninja for Halloween? (http://www.martialartsmart.com/ninja-styles.html)

[瓜娃子]

...you, of all people here, are late to the boat. NINJASTAR (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=58511) is all about dressing the ladies up in ninja suits. duh. I mean, props for the zombie ninja and all, but a fetish is a fetish. ;)

Actually, it's all about selling ninja gear. (http://www.martialartsmart.com/ninja-styles.html) shhhh.

One time I visited Japan with a rich friend. We went to a special hotel where all the ladies dress like ninjas and have some skills in karate. First you get drunk, then if you can catch one you can keep her for a while.

Basically if you don't hit back the ladies can have a special advantage and get away.

Japanese people are very cruel, but some things they have are very special that can make you feel wonderful inside.

[Snipsky]

I like it here, i feel so at home, reminds me of when i resided in a mental institute. Thanks Fam Bam. :D

[SPJ]

and no eating strange noodle or stranger's noodle

:D

I meant that

one may also find peace with one self by cooking and eating the "right" noodle.

that was the link between father goose and panda son.

of course radish was replaced with panda cub in the basket

so kung fu/tai ji panda brought radish back to father goose

yah yah there is mother goose, too

that is another story telling.

disney fairy tales telling that is.

:cool:

[Lokhopkuen]

We are all so fortunate to have such a warm and compassionate person such as yourself keeping loving watch over us all!

Thank YOU, and the God you may or may not worship, for giving us such a Blessing as YOU!! <sniff....sniff!>:p:D

See what I mean:D
Thank you brother;)