Martial Art Standards

[tallmike]

Many aspects of life have set standards.

1. Good students get A's, do their homework, and graduate on time.
2. A good house keeper keeps the house clean. She vacuums, dusts, and leaves the house smelling like bleach or atleast clean smelling.
3. A good mechanic lets you know about any future issues with your car, fixes current problems, and leaves you with a car that runs well without funny noises and without fluids all over the place.

What are the standards in the martial arts? Likely many will say that it's up to the individual whether they want to do martial arts for fighting ability, exercise, and/or self cultivation purposes. This is too ambiguous. Imagine if house keepers had different standards. One house keeper does not clean bathrooms. Another does not believe it is her responsibilty to clean kitchens since she does not cook there. It would be chaos trying to have your house cleaned!

Standards have to be set especially for tcma. Training must be in line with those standards. Schools cannot claim to have it all under one roof.

What are tcma around to accomplish? Currently it is around to preserve a certain view of training that might have taken place in China at one point. Forms, two man forms, weapons forms, qi gong exercises, flowing drills, in general a lack of real contact. If stern standards are than some of these practices can be ignored OR tweaked to the standard.

Here are some ideas:

For exercise: do forms fast for cardio and in low stances to build strong bodies. Weapons forms should be done with heavy metal weapons. Flowing drills can be tweaked to be done with tension to get a workout and to teach students that tension is important in issuing power. Add bagwork and calisthenics, and dynamic tension exercises like the ones in Harry Wongs book. Add weightlifting.

For self cultivation: Forms done slowly, flow drills done slowly with little tension emphasizing light movements like playing hands with no striking, qi gong. Add light walks.


For fighting: Lift weights instead of weapons forms, shadowbox instead of forms, dynamic boxing like two-man drills(not forms), modified qi gong to build power and stamina. Add sparring.

Can tcma claim to do any of the above while claiming to focus on accomplishing everything? I believe a more strict focus should be made for quality control on the training.

[Snipsky]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDuWFYOTyqA

Oh no...:(

[Paul T England]

At a high level you can not seperate Fighting, Exercise and cultivation. Looks at the number of high level of repected martial artists (inc MMA and BJJ people) that do Kettlebells, Yoga etc. The harder you training for "fighting" the more you need training for exercise and cultivation.

Why is it so difficult to see everything as an integrated system. One of my students asked me how I would describe freestyle karate compared to traditional karate....my answer was one is crap and i did not mean the traditional karate.....

www.moifa.co.uk
www.nemartialartsupply

[David Jamieson]

At a high level you can not seperate Fighting, Exercise and cultivation. Looks at the number of high level of repected martial artists (inc MMA and BJJ people) that do Kettlebells, Yoga etc. The harder you training for "fighting" the more you need training for exercise and cultivation.

Why is it so difficult to see everything as an integrated system. One of my students asked me how I would describe freestyle karate compared to traditional karate....my answer was one is crap and i did not mean the traditional karate.....

www.moifa.co.uk
www.nemartialartsupply

Absolutely martial arts are integrated systems.

[tallmike]

At a high level you can not seperate Fighting, Exercise and cultivation. Looks at the number of high level of repected martial artists (inc MMA and BJJ people) that do Kettlebells, Yoga etc. The harder you training for "fighting" the more you need training for exercise and cultivation.

Why is it so difficult to see everything as an integrated system. One of my students asked me how I would describe freestyle karate compared to traditional karate....my answer was one is crap and i did not mean the traditional karate.....

www.moifa.co.uk
www.nemartialartsupply

Ah yes. Ladies and gentleman we haventhe current fad in mma: yoga.
Ask yourself this. Can yoga replace any of the core practices you used to reach your high skill? Sparring, bagwork, etc? Nope. You mentioned at the highest level but anyone who has the talent and trains will get there no matter if he does yoga or ballroom dancing as long as the core practices are done.

[tallmike]

Absolutely martial arts are integrated systems.

Integrated is the new way of saying, "I am not good at any one topic like fighting so I train them all simultaneously...and usually skip the fighting part altogether."

[David Jamieson]

Ah yes. Ladies and gentleman we haventhe current fad in mma: yoga.
Ask yourself this. Can yoga replace any of the core practices you used to reach your high skill? Sparring, bagwork, etc? Nope. You mentioned at the highest level but anyone who has the talent and trains will get there no matter if he does yoga or ballroom dancing as long as the core practices are done.

Yoga is restorative and maintains a suppleness throughout the body. A great deal of athletes in a great deal of different sports use yoga as part of their training path.

Bag work cannot give you what yoga does and vice versa and so on.
Yoga and ballroom dancing are dissimilar.

It is unwise to cast dispersion or to be dismissive of things which you clearly don't have much knowledge of.

[tallmike]

Yoga is restorative and maintains a suppleness throughout the body. A great deal of athletes in a great deal of different sports use yoga as part of their training path.

Bag work cannot give you what yoga does and vice versa and so on.
Yoga and ballroom dancing are dissimilar.

It is unwise to cast dispersion or to be dismissive of things which you clearly don't have much knowledge of.

Yoga is guided forced stretching. You have a stretch reflex that kicks in at a certain point when your body does not want to be injured. This actually reverses the so called flexibility you might have gained during the session.

Go see what forced stretching does to a rubberband. Does the rubberband become more supple or does it get weaker and snap?


Obviously yoga and ballroom dancing are not similar. You missed my point. The point was that if you are at the highest level any random "exercise" activity will seem like it enhances performance.

[Paul T England]

tallmike, what style do you study and to what level? more important do you teach?

also what does your training involve?

solo practice (forms, shadow boxing, shrimping, rolling, bridging (hmm all the same really arrnt they?)

partner practice - one step, free sparring, limited sparring, applications from forms, self defence scenarios (hmm all the same really)

Coniditoning - running, lifting, stretching, kettlebells, yoga, circuits (oh **** they are all the same as well)

basics - breathing (ki Qi gong), stance work, makiwara punching, wallbags, heavy bag, drilling basic technques, focus mitt training. (oh bollicks they are all the same..)

the same - i mean they are ways of developing yourself and researching. People will prefer different training and might be conditioned to thinking one is superior to another but they are all ways that have been thought up to help you improve. If the methods are good, the end result will be the same.

Martial Standards should be humility, respect, openess, courage, honesty, beginners mind, compassion, strength and SKILL!

Paul

[tallmike]

tallmike, what style do you study and to what level? more important do you teach?

also what does your training involve?

solo practice (forms, shadow boxing, shrimping, rolling, bridging (hmm all the same really arrnt they?)

partner practice - one step, free sparring, limited sparring, applications from forms, self defence scenarios (hmm all the same really)

Coniditoning - running, lifting, stretching, kettlebells, yoga, circuits (oh **** they are all the same as well)

basics - breathing (ki Qi gong), stance work, makiwara punching, wallbags, heavy bag, drilling basic technques, focus mitt training. (oh bollicks they are all the same..)

the same - i mean they are ways of developing yourself and researching. People will prefer different training and might be conditioned to thinking one is superior to another but they are all ways that have been thought up to help you improve. If the methods are good, the end result will be the same.

Martial Standards should be humility, respect, openess, courage, honesty, beginners mind, compassion, strength and SKILL!

Paul

Forms is a solo practice but does not belong with the others. Shadowboxing is not forms because it is unrehearsed. Shrimping exercises core muscles and is also a way to escape when on the ground. Eating and drinking are solo practices. With your random grouping I am surprised it was not in this group.

Free sparking and one step are not even close to each other. One step is pretend sparring for people who do not want to spar.

[David Jamieson]

Forms is a solo practice but does not belong with the others. Shadowboxing is not forms because it is unrehearsed. Shrimping exercises core muscles and is also a way to escape when on the ground. Eating and drinking are solo practices. With your random grouping I am surprised it was not in this group.

Free sparking and one step are not even close to each other. One step is pretend sparring for people who do not want to spar.

First, your perception of Yoga is entirely wrong.

Second, shadow boxing is rehearsed in that you are repeatitively using combinations to correct the platform, the structure, the flow. Each segment you use, is over and over again, ergo "rehearsed" It is by the very definition of it, working on form.

shrimping, shrugging, standing contractions, whatever. it's in there. Shrimping is not found inside of much tcma training. although shrugging for slips is encouraged as well as keeping your hands in en guard.

[Iron_Eagle_76]

This entire thread:

http://www.ihasafail.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/funny-pictures-epic-fail-i-has-a-fail.jpg

[tallmike]

First, your perception of Yoga is entirely wrong.

Second, shadow boxing is rehearsed in that you are repeatitively using combinations to correct the platform, the structure, the flow. Each segment you use, is over and over again, ergo "rehearsed" It is by the very definition of it, working on form.

shrimping, shrugging, standing contractions, whatever. it's in there. Shrimping is not found inside of much tcma training. although shrugging for slips is encouraged as well as keeping your hands in en guard.

You have your opinion and I have mine. Atleast mine is supported by a book. The title is: What white people like.

I think that is the title. Anyway it is a comedy written by a white guy making fun of uppity things white people do. I was not offended.

[Dale Dugas]

TM,

What is your background in MA?

Just curious to know if you really know anything or you are nothing more than another of the recent trolltards stalking KFO.

[CFT]

You have your opinion and I have mine. At least mine is supported by a book. The title is: What white people like.LOL. Not supported by personal experience then?

[Dale Dugas]

it seems we have people with dubious backgrounds posting about things they have neither personal experience with.

[tallmike]

LOL. Not supported by personal experience then?

I have done yoga before. The only theraputic/self cultivating thing I like about it is having hot women's butts pointed at me. And that is the honest truth.

[Dale Dugas]

I have done yoga before. The only theraputic/self cultivating thing I like about it is having hot young men's butts pointed at me. And that is the honest truth.

Holy Im in the closet batman!

[Dale Dugas]

You are always welcome to duplicate any of the breaks I do and film them and post them on the internet.

But then you would actually have to do something.

That might make your brain explode.

[David Jamieson]

ok, so this guy is another Dale stalking troll from trollshido?

Oy Vey! lol

It must be dead boring over there or something.
they sure like coming here for a spanking it seems.

what is wrong with you people's heads anyway?

12 year old wankers, the lot of ya. :p

[Dale Dugas]

it seems there is no stop to the slandering and libeling of me.

Must be doing something correct to get so much flak from these net ghosts cowards.

They make all these claims about me breaking fake bricks but when asked to duplicate ANYTHING I can do, they slink off and never contribute anything but hate, fear and cold clammy sweat as that would mean they would have to leave the confines of their parents basement and venture out into the real world and really train and then go buy some bricks, which would take money from mom and dad....

Me thinks it would be too much for these cowardly net ghosts.

[lkfmdc]

it seems there is no stop to the slandering and libeling of me.



membership in my club is still open :D

[tallmike]

This is the equivalent to most kung fu training. No contact!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8aRdYjoWTA

[Snipsky]

I have done yoga before. The only theraputic/self cultivating thing I like about it is having hot women's butts pointed at me. And that is the honest truth.

Yo, word! Son, that says a lot about your character yo. You have herpes don't you? :cool:

[SPJ]

most people will be mediocre in MA

and only few will attain excellency.

so measure or compare yourself with yourself

have a daily practice journal, as you would with diet or fitness diary.

1. moderate activity 60 min

2. cardio 30 min

3. strength training or lifting weights 30 min

you set your goals and stages of progression

be it Kung fu related or sports or just walking and swimming

you improve yourself over time

find out hurdles and ways to overcome

--

you may win or lose fights, but do not lose your health.

:)

[tallmike]

Yo, word! Son, that says a lot about your character. You have herpes don't you? :cool:

I was one of three guys in the class. I guarantee you the other two were there hoping to meet women. Yoga class is a great place to meet them because there are so many of them.

In each of these clips there is the one recently divorced guy looking to hook up. There is one guy per class.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3W8uMMHrTrI

[David Jamieson]

I was one of three guys in the class. I guarantee you the other two were there hoping to meet women. Yoga class is a great place to meet them because there are so many of them.

In each of these clips there is the one recently divorced guy looking to hook up. There is one guy per class.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3W8uMMHrTrI

you are a kid with a lot of growing up to do.

lol.

[tallmike]

you are a kid with a lot of growing up to do.

lol.

And you are a guy who is disconnected from his natural manly women loving core. I guess that is why you always talk about training with your "partner". Roommates is another term for your same sex lover.

You probably met your roommate at a yoga class.

[Snipsky]

I was one of three guys in the class. I guarantee you the other two were there hoping to meet women. Yoga class is a great place to meet them because there are so many of them.

In each of these clips there is the one recently divorced guy looking to hook up. There is one guy per class.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3W8uMMHrTrI

Nice way to pass the blame. NOT. STEP. KEEP STEPPING. Yet, in your class there were three of you types yo, we will be seeing you in Gene's busted martial artists soon i guess.

[tallmike]

Nice way to pass the blame. NOT. STEP. KEEP STEPPING. Yet, in your class there were three of you types yo, we will be seeing you in Gene's busted martial artists soon i guess.

What are you talking about and why do you keep saying "yo"? Where the heck did you learn to write? The same high school as Eminem?

[Lucas]

Well guys as you can easily see from evidence that crybaby is all right about yoga. I dint practice it but he's so right all yoga people actually lose flexibility just like he claimed. Most yoga people can't even bend at the waist to a 45 degree angle. U guys obviously don't know yoga as well as little mikey here

[Snipsky]

What are you talking about and why do you keep saying "yo"? Where the heck did you learn to write? The same high school as Eminem?

Keep it gully son. Keep it gully. I bet you're a registered sex offender yo!

[tallmike]

Keep it gully son. Keep it gully. I bet you're a registered sex offender yo!

You are just jealous because a guy like me stole your girl from you all those years. Time to get over it, buddy.

[Lucas]

You are just jealous because a guy like me stole your girl from you all those years. Time to get over it, buddy.

c'mon u can be more childish than that....try harder mikey

[Snipsky]

You are just jealous because a guy like me stole your girl from you all those years. Time to get over it, buddy.

Have you found my shoes under your bed yo or did your lady toss them out already? Son, yo son, you need to be spanked son. word up (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZjAantupsA#).

[tallmike]

c'mon u can be more childish than that....try harder mikey

And you prove it with every post that I ignore. LOL.

[Snipsky]

And you prove it with every post that I ignore. LOL.

Yo, ya didn't ignore that one son, sup' with dat yo?

[Lucas]

And you prove it with every post that I ignore. LOL.

you make no understandy

[tallmike]

Yo, ya didn't ignore that one son, sup' with dat yo?

Your last post was the truest post you had so far.

[David Jamieson]

And you are a guy who is disconnected from his natural manly women loving core. I guess that is why you always talk about training with your "partner". Roommates is another term for your same sex lover.

You probably met your roommate at a yoga class.

I'm 47 and have been married for about 15 years...or as long as you have been alive.

lol @ roommates. I haven't had to have roomates for ages!

you really are a kid! wow.

[TenTigers]

well, one thing about the stretch reflex-yes, your body has it to protect it from injury, and it is the thing that stops you from going further.
BUT..as you hold the stretch, breathe, and allow your body to relax into the stretch (you would learn this if you kept your head down and focused on your stretch, instead of the girls in the yoga pants and sports bras..) your muscles will release and allow you to go deeper into your stretch.
This happens over time and practice.
This would've worked in your favor as you would have developed greater flexibility, as well as not getting yourself labled as a creep in your yoga class.
You would've gotten laid, and been able to do more challenging positions in the kama sutra as well, thus increasing your cred.

[tallmike]

well, one thing about the stretch reflex-yes, your body has it to protect it from injury, and it is the thing that stops you from going further.
BUT..as you hold the stretch, breathe, and allow your body to relax into the stretch (you would learn this if you kept your head down and focused on your stretch, instead of the girls in the yoga pants and sports bras..) your muscles will release and allow you to go deeper into your stretch.
This happens over time and practice.
This would've worked in your favor as you would have developed greater flexibility, as well as not getting yourself labled as a creep in your yoga class.
You would've gotten laid, and been able to do more challenging positions in the kama sutra as well, thus increasing your cred.

I prefer basic cals to make sure the sinovial fluid has my joints greased up.

[Lucas]

I'm 47 and have been married for about 15 years...or as long as you have been alive.

lol @ roommates. I haven't had to have roomates for ages!

you really are a kid! wow.

hey now I just got a new roommate :( lol

[CFT]

Well guys as you can easily see from evidence that crybaby is all right about yoga. I dint practice it but he's so right all yoga people actually lose flexibility just like he claimed. Most yoga people can't even bend at the waist to a 45 degree angle. U guys obviously don't know yoga as well as little mikey hereSo you have no personal experience, AND you have not read THE BOOK ????!!!!!!



;)

[Iron_Eagle_76]

hey now I just got a new roommate :( lol

At least your not living in your mother's basement. (Or are you?:p)

[Lucas]

At least your not living in your mother's basement. (Or are you?:p)

lol no I don't even need a roommate but when a hot chick with hot friends proposes the idea, I don't say no.

[Paul T England]

WHY DID I HAVE TO MENTION YOGA!!!!!

I did not know so many people felt so strongly about it...

tallmike, find yourself a good teacher/mentor and listen to them. Be warned they are few and far between.

btw, if you cant one step don't even bother freesparring.

btw 2, the sparring clip you posted! videos and pic are taken out of context and nobody spars full contact all the time..ask any boxer or mma guy...

Paul

[tallmike]

WHY DID I HAVE TO MENTION YOGA!!!!!

I did not know so many people felt so strongly about it...

tallmike, find yourself a good teacher/mentor and listen to them. Be warned they are few and far between.

btw, if you cant one step don't even bother freesparring.

btw 2, the sparring clip you posted! videos and pic are taken out of context and nobody spars full contact all the time..ask any boxer or mma guy...

Paul

I will stop doing stupid crap for one second to answer your post but not because the fake gods around here want to ban me. This is serious.

You cannot spar if you cannot do one step? Most people that spar HAVE NEVER HEARD OF ONE STEP SPARRING. YOu put gear on and go at it within the confines of force agreed upon.

[David Jamieson]

I am stupid crap for one second to dumbly respond to your post but not because the fake gods around here want to ban me. This is serious.

I HAVE NEVER HEARD OF ONE STEP SPARRING. I put gear on and go Larping

Fixed that for you.

[tallmike]

Fixed that for you.

You are one of the biggest larpers around here with your northern shaolin nonsense.

[Snipsky]

You are one of the biggest larpers around here with your northern shaolin nonsense.

Yo, your nonsense is even more nonsense since you don't train in anything son. Keep it Gully son.

[Northwind]

You are one of the biggest larpers around here with your northern shaolin nonsense.

And you're a nobody troll, like the rest of your funny little buddies who all happened to join KFM this month, have zero photos or personal info in your profile, only engage in topics that you know will inspire heated debate, will avoid any direct questions, etc.

[David Jamieson]

You are one of the biggest larpers around here with your northern shaolin nonsense.

lol, my Northern Shaolin is at best mediocre. I don't speak to it much as there are practitioners here who are quite adept at it and know reams more than i do about it.

Northwind here, LokHopKuen, Gene Ching, NorthShaolin and others are the experts with this style here.

My style is only some what effected by Bak Sil Lum.

it's a good somewhat though! lol Great style, very difficult as styles go.

[YouKnowWho]

You are one of the biggest larpers around here with your northern shaolin nonsense.
The northern shaolin system include Zha, Hua, Hung, Tan, Pao, eagle claw, Chuo Jiao, ... If it's nonsense, we should all get a rope, find a quite place, and hang ourselves.

Am I the only person that have the feeling that this is just another thread that try to trash TCMA?

[sanjuro_ronin]

The northern shaolin system include Zha, Hua, Hung, Tan, Pao, eagle claw, Chuo Jiao, ... If it's nonsense, we should all get a rope, find a quite place, and hang ourselves.

Am I the only person that have the feeling that this is just another thread that try to trash TCMA?

He's been banned so don't worry to much about it.

[瓜娃子]

My standards are typical.

I don't care how fat I get or how weak and skinny, I only have to impress beginners who are willing for me to show them techniques. This is the standard for almost everyone in modern times.

Can I beat a professional fighter? No! I will try to do something and get beat in the face until I fall down.

Looking cool to beginners in front of pretty girls is all that anyone really trains for.

[Lucas]

My standards are typical.

I don't care how fat I get or how weak and skinny, I only have to impress beginners who are willing for me to show them techniques. This is the standard for almost everyone in modern times.

Can I beat a professional fighter? No! I will try to do something and get beat in the face until I fall down.

Looking cool to beginners in front of pretty girls is all that anyone really trains for.

lol the truth hurts!!!