Staff (gwun) Drills

[David Jamieson]

Extrapolating onto the soft pell, stepping strikes, turn backs and lay ins.

What sort of staff drills do you do with a striking surface that lets you develop full force striking with the weapon?

How do you like to perform the strikes? form a static position or while moving?

Do you practice full force striking with your weapons?

If not, why not? It is a great way to strengthen your weapon retention ability and to increase the skill of your attacks.

also, what is your pell made from and what type of staff do you use?

thanks!

[Brule]

I have a few pieces of 1 1/4" PE pipe. I filled one piece that's 5 1/2' long with sand and capped both ends. I know it's not ideal, but i used what i had. I use it to strengthen the forearms and wrists. Also use it to stengthen my stance and transitions. Hit the bag with it but not full out shots, just short bursts as space is limited.

[SPJ]

1 we use staff like a spear (as in shaolin gun fa/staff method)

so lots of ci or piercing forward

2 beng or suddenly upward is most difficult to practice

3 as far as Pi or axe down.

we may go halfway with half horse stance

we may also go all the way to the floor with half squatting stance.

4 sao or sweep

limited half circle

or all around 360 degree

--

me luv staff/spear.

initially practicing with strong arms and upper body movement

then the whole body

then stepping/walking/running and strike

all in stages of progression

foot note

if you strike something hard, you have to absorb the repercussion or recoiling power in a balance way or transferring it down to your feet then ground.

without losing grips of your staff of course

--

:)

[TenTigers]

staff thrusts (heart pierce) utilizing the shift from horse to bow and arrow, connects the entire body into the strike.
Snapping the staff down develops the short sinking power, which is used in joint locking and bridge sinking skills.
holding a lighter staff and bringing it up into a palm up position in front of yuor chest, then slowly thrusting it forward, then twisting it down develops the wrist, grip, and forward bridge energy.

[SPJ]

yes. if you use a staff as a tool to develop your body strength

then we use a heavy and extra long spear or da gan

we may not move it or wield it without recruiting the waist and the whole body movment.

it is a popular practice across all northern style.


:cool:

[Mulong]

I typically practice/teach various gun/gwan (棍) skills, based upon northern and southern rat tail stick, double ended stick, and long staff principles:

• Striking a heavy bag or tree
• Two-man drills
• Weights
• Moving and Stationary

[faxiapreta]

Like all things martial, the closer to reality the better. In the case of staffs, that means full contact sparring.

[David Jamieson]

Like all things martial, the closer to reality the better. In the case of staffs, that means full contact sparring.

In the case of staffs, don't listen to this guy. lol
He obviously has no idea of how to train correctly.
And if he did train that way, he wouldn't be training because he's injured all the time.

you need to qualify and quantify those statements.

And "dog brothers" is not a legitimate response.

[YouKnowWho]

I have learned the pole (not staff) 2 men form 劈手杆(Pi Shou Gan) when I was 11 years old from my brother in law from Baoding. The form only contains 3 short combos. You hold your hands on the 1/3 position, this way you can use both end to hit your opponent. If you release one grip, your pole will have 2/3 length to reach to your opponent. The main trick on this pole skill is to "slide your pole along your opponent's staff and hit on their fingers". In order to prevent your opponent form doing that to you, you use a fat pole that your fingers won't hole it in circle. This way, when your opponent tries to slide along your pole to hit your fingers, since you only hold 1/2 way (fat pole), his stick won't be able to hit on your fingers.

Here is how that pole look like:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/543/stick2g.jpg/

[瓜娃子]

I wanted to learn pole and my Shifu only made my block basic attacks and hit harder and harder and harder.

As he hit harder the pole would bend and shake. This make it easy to hurt my fingers and I was afraid Shifu would break them.

I learned to absorb the force in the legs to bounce the stick. Shifu said that unless you can do this and know what real force feels like other techniques are no good.

[Snipsky]

I thought Gwun was a jamaican term...."G'wun get your ahss out me grill ya bumbaclot!!! Book Book Book!

[YouKnowWho]

What sort of staff drills do you do with a striking surface that lets you develop full force striking with the weapon?

The folowing simple 2 men drill can be quite useful.

Both you and your opponent use hands to hole 1/3 of the pole.

- You use right hand side of your pole to hit your opponent's head, he blocks it.
- You use left hand side of your pole to hit his leg, he blocks.
- You use left hand side of your pole to hit his head again, he blocks.
- You release your right hand hold and use your right hand end to hit on top of his head, he lets your pole to slide along his pole.

[faxiapreta]

In the case of staffs, don't listen to this guy. lol
He obviously has no idea of how to train correctly.
And if he did train that way, he wouldn't be training because he's injured all the time.

you need to qualify and quantify those statements.

And "dog brothers" is not a legitimate response.

Are you saying you don't spar full contact with staffs?

[David Jamieson]

Are you saying you don't spar full contact with staffs?

You are advocating causing injury.

If you cannot speak to it with qualifications and quantification, then please don't try.

You make it clear that you don't know what you're going on about.

As an aside, gear is great, but it is still a mask.

we train. when we fight, we fight. training stops and fighting begins.

With weapons there are many drills, but everyone who actually knows anything about handling weapons will use dummys for development fo full force striking, drills to teach the relationship of space and timing and sparring is fun, but a limited activity of value with weapons training.

Do people spar with guns? No, the paintball or airsoft.
Do people spar with swords? No, they fence.
Do people spar with staffs? Yes, but either with modified staff or a lot of armour.

No armour cuts your training time down immensely.

@ YKW yes I am familiar with attack/defend staff drills. they are good!

[faxiapreta]

You are advocating causing injury.

If you cannot speak to it with qualifications and quantification, then please don't try.

You make it clear that you don't know what you're going on about.

As an aside, gear is great, but it is still a mask.

we train. when we fight, we fight. training stops and fighting begins.

With weapons there are many drills, but everyone who actually knows anything about handling weapons will use dummys for development fo full force striking, drills to teach the relationship of space and timing and sparring is fun, but a limited activity of value with weapons training.

Do people spar with guns? No, the paintball or airsoft.
Do people spar with swords? No, they fence.
Do people spar with staffs? Yes, but either with modified staff or a lot of armour.

No armour cuts your training time down immensely.

@ YKW yes I am familiar with attack/defend staff drills. they are good!

The principles of training do not change. Train as close to reality as possible. With staffs this means sparring.

Of course you have to gear up. The idea is the same with all training. As hard as you can without constantly getting injured.

What is is about dog brothers that you find not a good example of staff fighting?

[JamesC]

The principles of training do not change. Train as close to reality as possible. With staffs this means sparring.

Of course you have to gear up. The idea is the same with all training. As hard as you can without constantly getting injured.

What is is about dog brothers that you find not a good example of staff fighting?

I suppose all of us that carry guns for a law enforcement agency should shoot each other to learn how to shoot people too.

Can't use sim rounds because that isn't TEH REALZ!

[Brule]

DJ,

Just some advice. Don't respond to the guy then maybe he'll leave the threads alone and those interested in discussing drills and training with the staff, can.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Lets make one thing clear, DBMA advocates PADDED and PROTECTED training.
Minimal padding is saved for actual testing periods or gatherings.

[faxiapreta]

I suppose all of us that carry guns for a law enforcement agency should shoot each other to learn how to shoot people too.

Can't use sim rounds because that isn't TEH REALZ!

What is it about...

Of course you have to gear up. The idea is the same with all training. As hard as you can without constantly getting injured.

... that you do not understand?

[David Jamieson]

DJ,

Just some advice. Don't respond to the guy then maybe he'll leave the threads alone and those interested in discussing drills and training with the staff, can.

yeah, you're right.
:p

[faxiapreta]

Jimerson's staff training:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jireJOLsy-w

[David Jamieson]

Who uses the double tail (two headed) methods?

I do. I rarely use single end on staff work.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Using the staff to build some secondary attributes is nothing new and pretty common in most MA.
Using heavier than normal items to mimic staff and stick work is also very common, advocated by the DB by the way.
I have a 6ft staff made out of 1" solid steel and 3ft sticks made out of the same material.
I got a couple of rounds with them.
I have a HD dummy, the type the police and fireman use, on which I practice full on strikes and such.

[Brule]

I prefer the single method over the double. Funny, i find the single method keeps me more balanced through out rather than the double end method. Also, i'm not a fan of doing the mirror of each set of moves on the other side, i find it makes the training boring. I know, i know, you need to do both sides to be good at both, but i was never a fan of that.

[YouKnowWho]

you need to do both sides to be good at both, but i was never a fan of that.
Me neither. We will be luck to train our skill to be good on one side. We can always train different skills for our different sides.

[kungfublow]

Are you saying you don't spar full contact with staffs?

Thanks for that Troll!

I'm might be playing into this a bit. But I spar all the time with staffs. I have a couple training partners that use kendo sticks and we have at it all time. It's made me much better! I can't say we spar full force though. It's more like play. Parries back and forth testing each other until something makes it though. I would say we are at 80% power. Enough to know when you get hit but not swinging hard enough to take my block totally off.

Anyone else spar with wooden weapons like this? Anything using foam is crap IMO!

[sanjuro_ronin]

Thanks for that Troll!

I'm might be playing into this a bit. But I spar all the time with staffs. I have a couple training partners that use kendo sticks and we have at it all time. It's made me much better! I can't say we spar full force though. It's more like play. Parries back and forth testing each other until something makes it though. I would say we are at 80% power. Enough to know when you get hit but not swinging hard enough to take my block totally off.

Anyone else spar with wooden weapons like this? Anything using foam is crap IMO!

There are some padded sticks that are good for working on light sparring and some technical work.
But I wouldn't spar hard with them.
Oak is not a good choice, LOL !
Rattan for sticks and bamboo shinai are ok, hardwood not so much.

I once went Bokuto VS stick and the Bokuto was just too much for my partner.
There isn't much padding that can go up against a bokuto.

[Brule]

Thanks for that Troll!

I'm might be playing into this a bit. But I spar all the time with staffs. I have a couple training partners that use kendo sticks and we have at it all time. It's made me much better! I can't say we spar full force though. It's more like play. Parries back and forth testing each other until something makes it though. I would say we are at 80% power. Enough to know when you get hit but not swinging hard enough to take my block totally off.

Anyone else spar with wooden weapons like this? Anything using foam is crap IMO!

vid or it never happened. :p

[YouKnowWho]

Anyone else spar with wooden weapons like this? Anything using foam is crap IMO!

Anyone else spar with "metal" weapons like this? Anything using "wood" is crap IMO! :D

http://img808.imageshack.us/img808/8553/stick1h.jpg

[kungfublow]

vid or it never happened. :p

Hahaha! I've got vids! Not that I'm going to share them. I've only been training a couple of years and I'm sure I'm not the best example of skill. I do think that type of training has made me better faster.

Maybe if I could figure out how to post a video I would put them up. Youtube and I are not friends. I'm sure it would be worth a good laugh for some of the higly skilled guys here.

[kungfublow]

Anyone else spar with "metal" weapons like this? Anything using "wood" is crap IMO! :D

http://img808.imageshack.us/img808/8553/stick1h.jpg

Now that's some real men! Take the skirt off boys it's time to spar with metal.

I just think foam doesn't give you the fear of being hit. You will attack much differently if you are worried about getting hurt. Anytime I see foam sparring it looks like two monkeys hitting each other. No techniques or skill involved.

[David Jamieson]

I thought Gwun was a jamaican term...."G'wun get your ahss out me grill ya bumbaclot!!! Book Book Book!

it's a fudgy canto romanization.

me no good with wade giles or pin yin...:(
me barbarian :D

[Lucas]

one time i accidentally broke my friend tooth and split his lip open with a bokken when we were sparring...i had to super glue his lip back together...

pretty funny actually

imagine if it was metal :O

[瓜娃子]

you are a bad friend. You must please him with comfort to make him feel better. Also buy him a new teeth.

[Lucas]

haha i told him he could hit me anywhere he wanted. but he didnt want to. butttt it resulted because we were dissagree on some technique or other, so we tried it in sparring and iw as right and i clocked his mouth...so it was good lesson for us both

but you are also right, i am a bad friends.

[瓜娃子]

If I go to Portland we can meet and be friend, but I will not use sticks with you because I am afraid that you are mean.

[Lucas]

ok. lol i am kind of mean.

[zoomvision]

[QUOTE=Lucas;1108219]one time i accidentally broke my friend tooth and split his lip open with a bokken when we were sparring...i had to super glue his lip back together...

pretty funny actually

imagine if it was metal :O[/QUOTE

Are you guys still friends afterward?

[Lucas]

[QUOTE=Lucas;1108219]one time i accidentally broke my friend tooth and split his lip open with a bokken when we were sparring...i had to super glue his lip back together...

pretty funny actually

imagine if it was metal :O[/QUOTE

Are you guys still friends afterward?

we are very close friends. :)

[YouKnowWho]

time to spar with metal.

That pole was made of copper pipe. I put sand into it so it can be used as weight training.

[Lucas]

That pole was made of copper pipe. I put sand into it so it can be used as weight training.

Wow that has to hurt to get hit with

[SPJ]

when you sweat

be careful that copper pipe may slip.

oops bang your own toes and hurt yourself big time.

:)

[Yum Cha]

I'm a big fan of the oversize Gwun. As tall as your upstretched arm and fingertips, at least, and 35-40mm thick. The style comes from the techniques used by guardsmen inside buildings, where several long pole guys could protect a passage or doorway from swordsmen. Lots of short sharp movements at the business end, tight grip at the very other end. No switching of ends.

Never learned the spear, I bet I would like it.

As mentioned before, the thicker pole allows you to grab with a claw to avoid your fingers getting scraped off the side.

Naturally, I don't entertain any fantasy of going to war with the thing, but its a great training too. Some spinning through 3 or 4 patterns to get the heart rate up, a nice low impact warm up. Using it across the shoulders for twists and torso/core stuff. Some common attack combinations for anaerobic bursts.

And holding it at one end with a narrow grip, parallel to the ground, locking your arms and trying to bounce it like a rattan stick, up and down. Your body is rigid, set solid, and you have to move it by using shoulders and core. Its good for stance, and its kind of like isometric, but you are rapidly changing between "push and pull."

Our saying is, "Hand is the Father, stick is the Mother and all the rest of the weapons are the children." Makes a certain amount of sense to me.

[Yum Cha]

Oh yea, I also keep the weightlifting bar around for staff training. Its brutal.

Got a pair of stainless steel rods, 15mm thick, 500mm long, nice for practicing any Dao forms, single or double, etc. Much heavier than a dao, but shorter. Something you can carry around as well.

[YouKnowWho]

when you sweat

be careful that copper pipe may slip.

oops bang your own toes and hurt yourself big time.

:)

You always put dirt on your hands before the battle. Have you seen the "Gladiator" movie?

[YouKnowWho]

Something you can carry around as well.

I always have this on my waist,

http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/2649/beltn.jpg

this on my finger,

http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/1913/spikesring.jpg

and this in my hand. I only have 37 notches on it so far.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd143/Detroit_Panday/MonkShillelagh5.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/4777273/all/Made_Myself_a_Shillelagh&usg=__KQ9MwE5iogwIrWq2OxJs2I4F3LI=&h=397&w=465&sz=29&hl=en&start=0&zoom=1&tbnid=CkJs1CIyuLP9FM:&tbnh=133&tbnw=156&ei=hvEDTvTPNardiAKg5tjCDQ&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dskull%2Bcracking%2Bin%2Bgang%2Bof%2BN ew%2BYork%2Bmovie%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DX%26rlz%3D1T4PP ST_enUS398US398%26biw%3D1680%26bih%3D777%26tbm%3Di sch%26prmd%3Divns&itbs=1&iact=rc&dur=514&page=1&ndsp=35&ved=1t:429,r:9,s:0&tx=80&ty=81

[Yum Cha]

I always have this on my waist,

http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/2649/beltn.jpg

this on my finger,

http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/1913/spikesring.jpg

and this in my hand. I only have 37 notches on it so far.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd143/Detroit_Panday/MonkShillelagh5.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/4777273/all/Made_Myself_a_Shillelagh&usg=__KQ9MwE5iogwIrWq2OxJs2I4F3LI=&h=397&w=465&sz=29&hl=en&start=0&zoom=1&tbnid=CkJs1CIyuLP9FM:&tbnh=133&tbnw=156&ei=hvEDTvTPNardiAKg5tjCDQ&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dskull%2Bcracking%2Bin%2Bgang%2Bof%2BN ew%2BYork%2Bmovie%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DX%26rlz%3D1T4PP ST_enUS398US398%26biw%3D1680%26bih%3D777%26tbm%3Di sch%26prmd%3Divns&itbs=1&iact=rc&dur=514&page=1&ndsp=35&ved=1t:429,r:9,s:0&tx=80&ty=81

Gee I got a new image of Central California...

[SPJ]

wearing spikey or pointed sharp stuff

be careful not to hurt yourself first

--

to make it worst, people may place poison or venom on their sharps

breach skin, poison delivered

--

:eek: