weighted items

[David Jamieson]

Anybody use weight vest? Metal rings? Legs weights?
Notice a difference in your endurance? Strength? Flow?

how long were you using resistance items before you started to physically notice the benefits.

For instance, for me, it took about 6 months to a year of steady 3x weekly use of metal rings and dit da jow before my arms would no longer bruise form their use.

bridges can withstand more and allow more issuance of force through them as a striking weapon.

so, what do you use, how long have you used it, what were your expected benefits and what were your real benefits?

thanks!

[SimonM]

I have been looking everywhere for iron rings. I found one sore with one ring for $20 but that was both too expensive and sort of useless as they only had one. I tried ordering from Martial Arts Mart a year back but they were out of stock.

Got a lead on some? Craigslist maybe...

[David Jamieson]

I have been looking everywhere for iron rings. I found one sore with one ring for $20 but that was both too expensive and sort of useless as they only had one. I tried ordering from Martial Arts Mart a year back but they were out of stock.

Got a lead on some? Craigslist maybe...

Actually, I know a blacksmith who I have already asked for another set.
I have a brass set that I bought at WLE. I used to have two sets, but a certain someone walked off with the first set. :mad: lol

If you go wle, it will be expensive!

I'll let yo know how the blacksmith goes and if he has good quality, I will let you know that too! I'm thinking it will be probably 5 to 10 bucks per ring and they will be cold rolled steel, pig iron or some form of iron. Bronze will be too expensive and I think blacksmith hammered ones will have a coarser texture which may lend itself well to the overall conditioning gained from their use.

[Brule]

I have used weighted wrist weights instead of rings since that is all i had at the time and noticed it made some difference. It took about 3-4 months of working with them regularly to notice. I've also used a bar and rolling it along the arms while in stance.

Have you tried looking at fishing supply stores? They may have some type of rings used in nets.

[SimonM]

I have used weights wrist weights instead of rings since that is all i had at the time and noticed it made some difference. It took about 3-4 months of working with them regularly to notice. I've also used a bar and rolling it along the arms while in stance.

Have you tried looking at fishing supply stores? They may have some type of rings used in nets.

Good tip. I wanted something a little more compact than sand wrist weights but hadn't thought of net weights.

[David Jamieson]

what the metal rings do that sand weights don't is they move along your arm and slam and bang into it with your motions.

sand weights provide weighted resistance, metal rings bang on your arms and toughen em up somewhat while providing that dynamic of weight and movement of that weight.

early on when the rings smash into your wrist with a punch takes a little getting used to, but after a while, it doesn't bug you as much because you'll have hardened up a little from the use.

[SPJ]

yes used weighted rings, weights tied to ankles and wrists.

do not like chest weight

stressing your shoulders too much, and may even hurt spine/back

--

[TenTigers]

we use the rings a little differently. We don't really use them to slam and condition your arms. In addition to the slam method, we perform the set slowly,without making them clang, making sure that each movement flows seemlessly into the next. This develops the "live hand," which does not go dead after a strike, but is still able to move and make transitions of energy and direction. Very similar to Tai-Chi.

We also have very heavy rings-8-10 lbs each, in which we perform the sets or other exercises to develop continuing energy as well as resistance on the bridge and short strikes.

Sash weights are held in the claw hand and thrusts are performed.

[Dale Dugas]

I use a 60 lb weight vest along with kettlebells to train certain skills and make my walking and turning skills even stronger.

I started a thread a long time back.

Nothing wrong with being strong.

Here is a video of using the vest along with two 50lb Kettlebells.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4PPD-lHBrE

[GeneChing]

I know the perfect archived ezine article (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/ezine/article.php?article=450) for this thread. ;)

[David Jamieson]

I know the perfect archived ezine article (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/ezine/article.php?article=450) for this thread. ;)

Oh hey, that will go well with these then:
http://www.martialartsmart.com/45-42.html

:D

[Mulong]

I have personally trained with iron rings, wrist/ankle weights, and various hand weights.

• The iron rings assist with the flow of qi
• Wrist/ankle weights assist in proper body mechanics
• Hand weights assist in developing jin/energy

[瓜娃子]

I use a weighted vest during spring festival. In China they fill them with sand and they are very cheap..here the same thing is really expensive. I think its a rip off. Sometimes I use two backpacks and fill them with rocks. It is good for stances.

I prefer cheap training methods. Its not because I am cheap, but I don't see why it should be wasteful.

I find that I can learn more from heavy weapons....in the US I see baseball players put weights on the bat. Must be the same idea.

[Lucas]

I like to use wrist and ankle weights for various things, and also weighted backpack when i jog. (not always though)

[Brule]

Don't you find that with a weighted back pack, you have the tendancy to compensate for the added weight on your back? It may not prove to be beneficial as compared to a vest that distributes the weight to your whole upper body.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I add weight the good old fashioned way:
Pizza and beer !
:D

[YouKnowWho]

I used the ankle weight for my running. It hurt my knee joint. I stop using it since then.

[David Jamieson]

I add weight the good old fashioned way:
Pizza and beer !
:D

Easier to lose that stuff than slow gainer weight brought on by salty chips.

Beware the salty chips and the soda pops, they are evil, evil toxic crud.

seriosuly, Beer? ok, you get a gut, but you can burn it off pretty fast.
pop? nay, it's like gluey fat.
salty chips? evil evil. dang tasty, but evil slow gainer, really really hard to burn it off fat.

[David Jamieson]

I used the ankle weight for my running. It hurt my knee joint. I stop using it since then.

I used to run outside. It's not very good for your joints, knees or hips, so I went back to treadmill. Too much concrete.

running on concrete is bad for you.

[Brule]

I used the ankle weight for my running. It hurt my knee joint. I stop using it since then.

Yes, ankle weights = no no. No good for the joints, especially hips and knees.

[Lucas]

@brule. ya i do, but i never really thought about it. im really not a runner, ive always just incorporated weight in a backpack about 1out of ever 3 running sessions just because i figure it would help my leg strength...maybe i should look into a vest...

[Brule]

Lucas, yeah, look for a vest if that's what you wanna do. Or make one yourself that distributes the weight evenly. Now, i'm not going to give you a TGY response as to why not to use a weighted back pack, maybe he can chime in here. You might not have issues now but it may down the line.

[Lucas]

i also run on dirt. i never noticed any problems from ankle weights tho

[Lucas]

Lucas, yeah, look for a vest if that's what you wanna do. Or make one yourself that distributes the weight evenly. Now, i'm not going to give you a TGY response as to why not to use a weighted back pack, maybe he can chime in here. But it would just make sense to me.

ya i can see how it does make sense...i guess i always just figured if its good enough for the marines its good enuf for me lol

[YouKnowWho]

i also run on dirt. i never noticed any problems from ankle weights tho

IMO, weight and speed just don't go together very well. If you use weight to do slow move, it may be OK. When you try to use weight to do speed move, you may take some risk. I ususally used light weight for my speed training. One day I use 60 lb weight for my speed training, I could feel some torn muscle on my arm.

[sanjuro_ronin]

The only thing I do that equals added weight is using 16oz gloves to hit the bag.
Beyond that, nope.

[David Jamieson]

Do you, or have you ever used the method of training where you punch with a dumbbell in your hand?

[Yum Cha]

I used to train with a mix of chrome and iron rings. One ring had a boxing wrap wrapped around it and it went on last, so it was the one that hit your fist. The wrap made it tighter as well as padded, so it really sealed off the rest of the rings on your arm, and your could 'issue' force and slam the rings without the damage to your hands, or the risk of losing the rings with a phoenix, which is smaller than a fist.

I like the conditioning of the arms and the extra weight training, but more I like the timing and the live work required to make them sing.

[瓜娃子]

Do you, or have you ever used the method of training where you punch with a dumbbell in your hand?

Don't do that...hurts elbows.

Punch to push a man very hard to build up muscle power.

[Yum Cha]

Don't do that...hurts elbows.

Punch to push a man very hard to build up muscle power.

I do an exercise with small dumbells, not quite punching but going through the motions, 100 to 200 times. More for strengthening than technique. Rings more for the Faat ging technique. Punching hard with dumbells doesn't have the buildup of the rings as they slide up and collapse, it does hurt your elbows.

I also like pushing a heavy bag, both slowly using the back and stomach as well as arms and fast, like short power trying to use the same. The former swings the bag, the latter you try and bend it. I think of it as a balanced cycle, the two sides of the whole.

[YouKnowWho]

I do an exercise with small dumbells,

I still remember oneday a guy walked into my school. He pickup up a dumbell from the ground and started to hit on his own head (a tough guy). He then challenged me to fight him with punches only but no kicks, no throws (not too macho after all)). He had excellent muscle on his body. His muscle was almost as pretty as Bruce Lee had in his "Enter The Dragon" movie.

[Lucas]

did you fist fight him?

[YouKnowWho]

did you fist fight him?

I did. It was so funny that someone started the challenge but he sets up the rules. Later on he open a JKD school. Oneday he had a public fight against someone. It was a fixed fight and I have not seen him since then. I also found out that his muscle came from his daily job, jack hammer operator.

[Lucas]

haha must have been a pretty good jkd school with no kicking or throwing lolol some people are just nuts

[Lucas]

its interesting you mention that i know i ahve trained with a few people that have very strong and defined muscles that they developed before any martial arts training. but some of these people dont even know how to use the muscles they have, they could hit soo much harder but they just hit like new learners anyway even tho they ahve all the muscle. only met a few like that over the years but it always is strange to me.

[Yum Cha]

There is no conditioning like an 'on the job' conditioning.

[Frost]

Do you, or have you ever used the method of training where you punch with a dumbbell in your hand?

yes when i was young and silly, bimechanically the force is all wrong, it trains the wrong muscles to fire at the wrong time and trains the wrong resistance, want to work resistance in the proper plain use elastic bands

have used iron rings both slowly and quickly, havent touched them for years i simply think there are beter ways to strangthen and condition

[Frost]

its interesting you mention that i know i ahve trained with a few people that have very strong and defined muscles that they developed before any martial arts training. but some of these people dont even know how to use the muscles they have, they could hit soo much harder but they just hit like new learners anyway even tho they ahve all the muscle. only met a few like that over the years but it always is strange to me.

thats nothing to do with muscle and everything to do with technique, once biiger stronger guys learn technique to go along with that strength they are a real handful

[sanjuro_ronin]

Do you, or have you ever used the method of training where you punch with a dumbbell in your hand?

Nah, pathway is wrong in terms of punching BUT it does build shoulder and arm endurance.

[Frost]

Nah, pathway is wrong in terms of punching BUT it does build shoulder and arm endurance.

hey i said that!

there are also better ways to build endurance IMHO

[David Jamieson]

Nah, pathway is wrong in terms of punching BUT it does build shoulder and arm endurance.

I suppose. I don't do it myself. If it's about shoulder and arm endurance, there's way better and more effective ways to develop that.

I just see guys doing this and I wonder why.
I can't see the benefit overall and I can't see why to do that when there are better ways.

Thanks

[Sardinkahnikov]

Back when I practiced han sword, my instructor gave me a certain steel blade that was diabolically heavy (at the tip, not at the guard as it should be). It sucked at first, but after a couple months my forearms were huge and could grip the sword for a considerable amount of time.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I suppose. I don't do it myself. If it's about shoulder and arm endurance, there's way better and more effective ways to develop that.

I just see guys doing this and I wonder why.
I can't see the benefit overall and I can't see why to do that when there are better ways.

Thanks

Well, if you are gonna spend most of the time doing uppercuts, MAYBE then it's ok, but why bother.


hey i said that!

there are also better ways to build endurance IMHO

And you are correct.
But some people just like doing stuff that is hard and makes it a workout.

Many of the things done in the past were done that way because there wasn't a better way.
If there is a better way now, then we should do it.

[Frost]

Well, if you are gonna spend most of the time doing uppercuts, MAYBE then it's ok, but why bother.



And you are correct.
But some people just like doing stuff that is hard and makes it a workout.

Many of the things done in the past were done that way because there wasn't a better way.
If there is a better way now, then we should do it.

As someone once said, any fool can make someone tired and vomit, its take time and effort to actually make someone stronger and fitter

As for the rest of what you said Heresy just heresy soon you will be on peoples ignore list too

To be honest building strength is not that hard or time consuming, the same with conditioning (although it is more complete than strength work) all the info you need is out there these days but people are sometimes loath to let things go

[sanjuro_ronin]

As someone once said, any fool can make someone tired and vomit, its take time and effort to actually make someone stronger and fitter

As for the rest of what you said Heresy just heresy soon you will be on peoples ignore list too

To be honest building strength is not that hard or time consuming, the same with conditioning (although it is more complete than strength work) all the info you need is out there these days but people are sometimes loath to let things go

I agree.
As you know I am an advocate of general strength building ( powerlifting and such) first and then unto "sport specific" ST.
Building a good core strength is not hard, heck I took my wife and all her 118lbs from BW squats to doing 220lbs for 5 reps in less than 6 months.

[Yum Cha]

...
And you are correct.
But some people just like doing stuff that is hard and makes it a workout.

Many of the things done in the past were done that way because there wasn't a better way.
If there is a better way now, then we should do it.

I'm a big fan of varied workouts, doing different things as part of the event. I was reading about an exercise theory, (CST) http://www.rmaxi.com/cst/, and they are all about full mobility, and applicable strength. They use indian clubs instead of kettle bells...

They talk a lot about core, and the strength of the physiology surrounding the muscle, including connective tissue, joints and the sheath of muscle that surrounds muscle(?).

I see a lot of common ground in some of the old school exercises which focused more on a movement than on a muscle.

[Yum Cha]

Another classic exercise is taking a sledge hammer and swinging it over your head, around your body in circles. Not like a f-ing helicopter though. The higher you hold the head, the harder it is on your guts. Its more about letting the swinging raise the hammer than putting just a bit more into it, and going for duration.

[David Jamieson]

Another classic exercise is taking a sledge hammer and swinging it over your head, around your body in circles. Not like a f-ing helicopter though. The higher you hold the head, the harder it is on your guts. Its more about letting the swinging raise the hammer than putting just a bit more into it, and going for duration.

wrapping dumbells like you wrap a darn dao is also a heck of an exercise.

[Yum Cha]

wrapping dumbells like you wrap a darn dao is also a heck of an exercise.

Gonna hafta explain....:o

[David Jamieson]

Gonna hafta explain....:o

gonna assume you use a broadsword, specifically a chinese broadsword.

in the use of single sided blade, there is a defense/reset technique called wrapping.
you basically draw a circle around yourself with the blade.

you can do it forward or back.

essence of the motion is this:
http://www.wushu.net.au/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=98:wrapping-with-broadsword&catid=41:daoshu-basic-techniques&Itemid=74

[Blacktiger]

Anybody use weight vest? Metal rings? Legs weights?
Notice a difference in your endurance? Strength? Flow?

how long were you using resistance items before you started to physically notice the benefits.

For instance, for me, it took about 6 months to a year of steady 3x weekly use of metal rings and dit da jow before my arms would no longer bruise form their use.

bridges can withstand more and allow more issuance of force through them as a striking weapon.

so, what do you use, how long have you used it, what were your expected benefits and what were your real benefits?

thanks!

Hi David,

Just found this post.

Have been using iron rings for about 7 years every week I guess. Its one of the main methods in Ziranmen training - have posted some clips up here from time to time. Cant remember the weights - we got them made up by a metal worker for us. I started on 3 rings then over the years moved to 5 where I am now, been there for a while and will add more weight when I can complete all the drills without strain and in a relaxed manner. I cant recall the time frames on when I inceased the ring number but basically when I could not notice the weight on my arm anymore. I find that the arms thin out rather than bulk up, they get really hard but not bulky and are still soft on the outer layers but really hard once you penetrate the skin a little, thats in the training we do anyhow. This type of training is also designed to strengthen the tendons, you will find they get really strong. Its the old iron wrapped in cotton blurb. I have noticed doing applications with partners that - you can stay really loose and light while someone else who may not be doing that type of training will say, man you were grinding me down...when you were using no effort at all your just used to carrying a larger amount of weight on your arms.
Im interested, I know the rings can bite a little from time to time but bruising and jow - what were you doing with them, just interested in the method.

You may have seen this but gives you an idea of our ring training.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zh0ZIzk0pzk

:)

[Lucas]

those rings make a beautiful sound in your video when you train with them, like the music of wind chimes

[Yum Cha]

gonna assume you use a broadsword, specifically a chinese broadsword.

in the use of single sided blade, there is a defense/reset technique called wrapping.
you basically draw a circle around yourself with the blade.

you can do it forward or back.

essence of the motion is this:
http://www.wushu.net.au/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=98:wrapping-with-broadsword&catid=41:daoshu-basic-techniques&Itemid=74

Yep, that's the go....one or two handed versions is what we are talking about.

[Lucas]

in that vid it must just be describe that one wrap, cuz u can go either way clock wise or counter clock wise...

[瓜娃子]

I use a street people. They weigh almost as much as real people and you can hit them and they can't call the cops because they on drugs.

[Lucas]

I use a street people. They weigh almost as much as real people and you can hit them and they can't call the cops because they on drugs.

lol idk where you live but i would like to introduce you to some street kids i know. i want you to just attack them outright, we wont tell them anything, and yo ucan even sneak attack them with a stick to give you a fair chance. i'll film it, and i'll even pick you up from the hospital a few days later...if you survive.

:)

[瓜娃子]

No....only meth streets.

PCP will make them monkey retard strong.

Meth people break with one punch and make you feel power.

[Lucas]

oh i see, im sorry, i didnt realize you can only fight weaklings. i had you mistaken for a man. my bad.

[瓜娃子]

that makes no sense.

You can hit a bag that doesn't hit back? You must be a little girl.

My targets are not predictable and provide good exercise, plus I pay them.

[Lucas]

no i am offer you better targets, bigger, stronger, faster, meaner. not bags. you only want the weak targets....so sad. hey these guys will even do it for free i know they will!!! and yes, i am a small frail female child. but i can still beat you up so im not too worried about it.

[瓜娃子]

you must work your way up and building confidences.

Start at the top and you will get hurt and feel badly.

Start with meths and then two meths. Actually most are strong enough, but lack confidences.

You pay a coach to count for you to make you hit a bag.

I hit a bag of flesh and muscle too stupid to count.

[Lucas]

hmmm, it is hard to argue with such logic. i will return to defeat you later.

[瓜娃子]

Portland has many drug zombies. They were hippy and now empty. Soul is somewhere else, so dont' worry about beating them..only a robot really.

[Lucas]

Portland also has a lot of drunks. It is a good combination. This way after you work your way through the crack heads in Chinatown, you can cross over to the south side and use your new confidence on the raging drunks!!! you can love this training, i will show you the way.

[瓜娃子]

Maybe when I go to Porland we can try.

But must always pay them. This way they don't cry in the night. When you leave and hear them crying it may break your heart.

10 bucks is mostly enough.

[Lucas]

In portland you can pay them with empty cans. it is the prefered method of payment for all street people. just bring one big bag of empty beer/soda cans andy you can train all night long

[瓜娃子]

Save Earth

Save them

Save your Kung fu and healthy.

Tripple win earns Buddah's blessing.

[Lucas]

and that is why it is so important to pay close attention to the relationship with your triple burner. good job!

[bawang]

i find doing tai chi with those little purple dumbells at the gym very good cardio workout. opens up the macrocosmic and the microcosmic.

everyone at the gym stares at me and think im badass

[Lucas]

i find doing tai chi with those little purple dumbells at the gym very good cardio workout. opens up the macrocosmic and the microcosmic.

everyone at the gym stares at me and think im badass

i can believe it. they only evny your power within the macrocosmic, but they cannot see the truth in the microcosmic so they only understand your massive power, so they are envious.

[瓜娃子]

badass!


In Chongqing they say badao!

霸道!

[Blacktiger]

those rings make a beautiful sound in your video when you train with them, like the music of wind chimes

When you get a full class going wih them its really loud!!

But I think Yum Cha said somewhere in this post - you have to learn to make them sing and thats dead right.

When you first start you dont have the control and the rings tend to go all over the place and can bite you. Once you learn how to catch and control them on your arm you get that uniform motion of them sliding in a group up and down your arm and of course singing a merry toon :D

[David Jamieson]

When you get a full class going wih them its really loud!!

But I think Yum Cha said somewhere in this post - you have to learn to make them sing and thats dead right.

When you first start you dont have the control and the rings tend to go all over the place and can bite you. Once you learn how to catch and control them on your arm you get that uniform motion of them sliding in a group up and down your arm and of course singing a merry toon :D

TT's opposing method of keeping them silent is interesting as well. :)

[SimonM]

Start with meths and then two meths. Actually most are strong enough, but lack confidences.


I would recommend never starting with meth. Drugs are bad mm-kay.

[Frost]

I'm a big fan of varied workouts, doing different things as part of the event. I was reading about an exercise theory, (CST) http://www.rmaxi.com/cst/, and they are all about full mobility, and applicable strength. They use indian clubs instead of kettle bells...

They talk a lot about core, and the strength of the physiology surrounding the muscle, including connective tissue, joints and the sheath of muscle that surrounds muscle(?).

I see a lot of common ground in some of the old school exercises which focused more on a movement than on a muscle.

double post

[Frost]

I'm a big fan of varied workouts, doing different things as part of the event. I was reading about an exercise theory, (CST) http://www.rmaxi.com/cst/, and they are all about full mobility, and applicable strength. They use indian clubs instead of kettle bells...

They talk a lot about core, and the strength of the physiology surrounding the muscle, including connective tissue, joints and the sheath of muscle that surrounds muscle(?).

I see a lot of common ground in some of the old school exercises which focused more on a movement than on a muscle.

only problem is for all his talking (and god does he do alot of that, he makes up words as he goes along) sonnen's only ever trained two fighters, and one of those was known for having both rubbish cardio AND bad strength so i take his stuff with a pinch of salt

the russians didnot use kettlebells as we see them used in the ewst, they used them for throwing mostly, they build strength the old fashioned way with heavy weights then added other stuff, most peopl seem to want to put the cart before the horse these days

[Ao Qin]

I had a 20 pound weighted vest that I jogged with - did forms with. I wrecked my back. I throw around heavy logs, 20 pound basketball (filled with sand), hit wooden dummy, etc. Forearms become hard as iron in one month or less if you train them properly.

kevin

[David Jamieson]

in that vid it must just be describe that one wrap, cuz u can go either way clock wise or counter clock wise...

that is correct sir.

black bears will not come to maul you now.

*whistles at the horde of black bears to return*

[bawang]

I had a 20 pound weighted vest that I jogged with - did forms with. I wrecked my back.

i train with 40 pound vest with no problem.

[David Jamieson]

i train with 40 pound vest with no problem.

Thereby proving that Jim is not Kevin and vice versa. :p

[bawang]

with weight vest the bouncing can destroys your spine. you have to buy a good one and make sure it fastens to your body.

you can march with the weight vest and do 10 second sprints with no problem, this is traditional chinese training.

doing forms with weight vest means you can no longer hop and prance around. this corrects your physical posture and mental attitude.

Thereby proving that Jim is not Kevin and vice versa. :p

my name steve. steve johnson.

[Blacktiger]

TT's opposing method of keeping them silent is interesting as well. :)

Yeah for sure - different movements you dont want them clanging round like the bells of St Pauls :)