Babysitter?

[David Jamieson]

What are some of the best practices for instilling a strong interest in martial arts as a way of life for those who teach children?

Do you have an active method for teaching a way towards eager learning?

Do you find yourself stuck babysitting and not knowing how to motivate some of the kids to do the work?

Care to share your innovations or ideas in this important part of martial arts instruction in this day and age?

[goju]

In before Bawang says to beat them with a stick. :D

[瓜娃子]

I only allow kids with parental supervision.

Kids are a huge liability and overall a waste of energy. I allow families to come and I teach techniques, parents must discipline their own kids. If kids or adults show a lack of respect they are excused.

If parents don't have time to spend with their kids, I don't have time for their kids either.

[ginosifu]

I have been teaching kids for over 15 years and I have these thoughts:

Less memorization of complicated patterns. Single movement drills are easier to remember. With many single movement drills you can always change to a different drill before they get bored.

More Shuai Chiao first before sparring. Wrestling is natural for kids and they like grappling better than forms anyway.

Have a rotating curriculum that changes every 3 months or so. This way when kids start to get bored, they have already moved on to something new.

The major problem with kids is they get bored quickly, keep things moving in class. Never let them stand around. My classes have a flow that never lets them stop until I bow them out. Kids will cry to their parents and want to quit as soon as they get bored and usually parents will pull their kids if they cry hard enough.

We are heavy on SC and Sparring.

ginosifu

ps. I don't babysit

[瓜娃子]

I'm a big fan of the rotating curriculum.

Following internal martial arts theory I change it based on the time of year.

[bawang]

children have no place in martial arts

[瓜娃子]

Yes they do. Child soldiers are all over the world.

I do not teach kids kung fu, I teach martial arts to kids who can behave like a warrior.

[bawang]

let me rephrase that. white children have no place in martial arts.

[瓜娃子]

Rich white kids.

Poor white kids are good fighters. When I first came to the US, I used to pay them to fight each other. Good fun.

Basically any kid who is poor can fight. This is how they compete for dinner. That is why the oldest is always fat and the youngest stay skinny.

Train the fat one. He has the nutrients for success.

[bawang]

What are some of the best practices for instilling a strong interest in martial arts as a way of life for those who teach children?





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IseGoaasjE

[瓜娃子]

I just got an email today to teach two kids.

I said that I could teach them with the parents there that I would not babysit and that I would only teach them "Chinese style"

I make them sign a waiver that says that I will hit them as a method of teaching or that I may ignore them or stop teaching them for any reason.

These kids are Mexicans so there is some hope for them.

[ginosifu]

let me rephrase that. white children have no place in martial arts.

I have 3 kids, a 5 a 3 and 1 year old. The 5 and 3 year old practice with me. They are mixed white and Asian, is this ok with you Bawang?

My 5 year old daughter will toss any kids her size on thier @ss while wrestling. My 3 year old son is built like tank, once he get some more SC training he will rule the Kwoon.
All of the kids that train with me are taught to fight. None are rich kids, most are low income families and the kids are there to learn self protection. I will put my kids up against any others and they usually defeat most all others in SC competition.

ginosifu

[瓜娃子]

Ginosifu

As a martial artist your value system will be different so you will actually allow your kids to be trained.

Rich kids tend to have picky parents who won't let you train them, but will let you take **** from them and babysit their kids.

[bawang]

I have 3 kids, a 5 a 3 and 1 year old. The 5 and 3 year old practice with me. They are mixed white and Asian, is this ok with you Bawang?

My 5 year old daughter will toss any kids her size on thier @ss while wrestling. My 3 year old son is built like tank, once he get some more SC training he will rule the Kwoon.
All of the kids that train with me are taught to fight. None are rich kids, most are low income families and the kids are there to learn self protection. I will put my kids up against any others and they usually defeat most all others in SC competition.

ginosifu

children cannot think abstract thoughts and cannot understand the reason behind martial arts, especially if they grow in a sheltered environment

[ginosifu]

Ginosifu
Rich kids tend to have picky parents who won't let you train them, but will let you take **** from them and babysit their kids.

I have been known to hit kids as well. Tugging ears, kicking them, slapping the back of their heads...

I have no Rich kids... they never last long. Besides, I have a trial lesson where the parents and the kids come in for a trial lesson. During the lesson they see how I am with the kids, I don't kill them but, It is definately not a babysitting service. The rich kids that talk back or have a bad attitude never come back after the trail.

ginosifu

[bawang]

I have been known to hit kids as well. Tugging ears, kicking them, slapping the back of their heads...



why didnt you say so? you are my kung fu brother. respec


i think with kids the most important thing is to teach about right and wrong

[SPJ]

kids no serious training

make them fun or a game.

I learned Tan Tui 2 men drills as a kid

kid A punch, kid B block, kid A kick, Kid B brush--

change place/role

I also learned shuai jiao as a kid.

but shuai jiao require more stuff and more accurate execution

--

--

some stretching, warming up as if it is a drill/dance with a tune

--

so kids learn something while they think it is fun and not bored.

---

[TenTigers]

my teacher carried a bamboo shinai and whacked us if we stepped out of line.
I continue that tradition.
Funny thing is, the parents like it as much as the kids.
(no, I don't whack the parents. Although....)
kid learn falling and basic sweeps and leg reaps, basic punches and kicks.
Although I am a Hung Kuen school, I also teach tan-tuie. Line 1,2&3, these share basics with Hung Kuen

[-N-]

kids no serious training

make them fun or a game.

[...]

---

Go ahead and train kids. The only fun they need is to go all out in trying to take your head off or to take you out. They'll try hard too, especially if you ridicule them.

If you don't wear protective gear, you can let them hit you so you can work on your impact conditioning and they can develop their power.

It'll be worth it when you watch them fight and scare other adults later.

[wenshu]

let me rephrase that. white children have no place in martial arts.

Genocidal sino centrism is so adorable.

*counts money

[wenshu]

Kids are the primary market for martial arts.

I have a question, did anyone who is a professional shifu grow up dreaming of being a martial arts teacher?

[TenTigers]

yeah, pretty much. Not as a child, but ever since my twenties. Every school I trained at, they usually had me assisting with classes, so it was a natural progression.

[Yum Cha]

let them come, then ignore them and bore them. If they don't leave, then teach them. No sense in wasting time. They have to be ready to learn, otherwise, they can go to strip mall TKD.

Oh, and I've never seen a Father teach a son, and have the son come out as good as the father. There have to be Uncles or other teachers involved.

IMHO.

[瓜娃子]

Kids are the primary market for martial arts.

I have a question, did anyone who is a professional shifu grow up dreaming of being a martial arts teacher?


Since I was 5. I still don't like to teach kids.

[Lucas]

Since I was 5. I still don't like to teach kids.

i got you beat. i dont like to teach anyone.

[-N-]

Oh, and I've never seen a Father teach a son, and have the son come out as good as the father. There have to be Uncles or other teachers involved.


That's pretty much how it is. Have to get a mean uncle involved.

[David Jamieson]

Thanks Gino , Rik and Matt. (the rest, thanks for bumping the thread, :D )

Gino, great input. Good ideas regarding simple drills and use of wrestling.

[Brule]

I have 3 kids, a 5 a 3 and 1 year old. The 5 and 3 year old practice with me. They are mixed white and Asian, is this ok with you Bawang?

My 5 year old daughter will toss any kids her size on thier @ss while wrestling. My 3 year old son is built like tank, once he get some more SC training he will rule the Kwoon.
All of the kids that train with me are taught to fight. None are rich kids, most are low income families and the kids are there to learn self protection. I will put my kids up against any others and they usually defeat most all others in SC competition.ginosifu

So, what you're doing here is developing your own race of midget minions to fight your battles.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Kids should learn what is most natural for them first - grappling.
Striking comes after.
I don't think I would train anyone under 8, at least not seriously.
My eldest is 8 and she loves to play around, as does my youngest who is 4, but its more fun and games then actual training.

[Brule]

IMO, judo or wrestling is best for kids especially when they are under 12. Just like Ronin said, they have fun with it. Striking arts are a lot harder for them as they have a hard time even making a proper fist.

[ginosifu]

Kids should learn what is most natural for them first - grappling.
Striking comes after.

Very true, grappling is natural for kids and fun. Sometimes 8-12 year old girls don't like grappling but for the most part kids can learn a good wrestling skill and have fun too.

Striking / Sparring is a bit hard for kids until they get a bit older. They do not have good control of there limbs and also their emotions. Sometimes they fight angry cause they were whacked in the nose. They may even just bust out crying cause they got kicked in the stomach.

As kids gain control of their bodies (I can tell when), we start basic sparring. As they get skilled (which may be a few years) we move into San Shou. YES, I said San Shou for kids. All my kids already know Shuai Chiao, so why not let them go at it? They have fun in a controlled environment.

ginosifu

[wenshu]

I still don't like to teach kids.


i got you beat. i dont like to teach anyone.

I don't like to teach and I despise children.

Disgusting creatures.

[TenTigers]

teaching how to fall is paramount. I tell all my students, "This is the most important thing you will ever learn. You may never get into a fight, but you are always going to fall."
Teaching a child how to do a simple takedown like osoto gari is a fight ender when they are little. How many times have you seen a child crying, "He pushed me down!"
Dropping a bully on his back and knocking the wind out of him is all they really need.
That and how to take control on the ground, will hold them for awhile. Sparring, as you said, comes when they can mentally and physically handle it.
I have a four yr old child that is coordinated enough to learn punches and kicks, but nowhere near ready to engage in sparring. Heck, he can do a spin back kick,
but..he falls down afterward half the time! Cute.
Then again,, I just had an intro with this four yr old-sharp. Physically athletic, no, I mean really athletic, and he's hungry-and polite and good-natured. If he signs up, he may be one of those little champions you see on youtube.
I hope I don't lose him to soccer league...

[SPJ]

at this point of their life

they only know about play or fun or game

here is a game

kid A holding mat on hand or big matt in the front

kid B punch left and right and then front kick

kid A move back a bit

kid B kick left front and land, move up and right side kick'

Kid A move back a step, move to the side a bit

--

change roles

next game

---

[GeneChing]

...then there's no hope for the future of the martial arts.

[Jimbo]

I must also agree that grappling like judo or BJJ is better for kids starting out. My first exposure to MA was judo and some wrestling, and it helped me lay a good foundation for later training. It's completely interactive (all application/no air work) and you experience feedback quickly w/out worrying about getting slugged. It's a hard workout that allows them a good tussle and builds up their strength.

[Yum Cha]

...then there's no hope for the future of the martial arts.

I've always wondered if you can make a martial artist. I think not. There are people who will do it like athletics, for awhile, until something more attractive comes along, and there are 'lifers' who just keep doing it forever. I think its an obsessive compulsive type of disorder. Maybe like golf.

Just like there are people who can't get Nan Kune coordination for the life of them, and others that are pure naturals. Some people are just drawn to it.

The kids that are destined to be martial artists can't be stopped, any more than you or I could have been. They'll find their teachers.

Judo is great for kids, I agree.

[ShaolinDan]

I've only been teaching kids for a very short time...and I'm just an assistant:p...however, what works best for me (and the only thing that's really worked consistently) is doing the practice along with them...

[GeneChing]

I've always wondered if you can make a martial artist. Thousands of kids are made into martial arts every year in the schools surrounding Shaolin. Of course, they beat it into them. You can make a kid into anything using punishment. They might come out psycho, but take it from me, there are a lot of psycho martial artists.

My first martial art was judo. It taught me how to fall, a skill that has saved me on countless occasions.

I used to teach kids. It takes a particular mindset for sure. It was the most physically demanding class because you have to put out a lot of energy and enthusiasm to teach kids. Some people just can't teach kids. That's a shame, but it's just as well.

Nevertheless, teaching kids is an extremely important link in the perpetuation of the martial arts. Many of the best martial artists started very young. Sure, there's some babysitting involved with many kids, but you can't toss the baby out with the bathwater, right?

[ShaolinDan]

My Shifu started Judo when he was six. Kung fu at nine. It shows. Teaching kids is definitely worthwhile...wish I didn't wait to start 'for real' until I was 25.

[ginosifu]

I've only been teaching kids for a very short time...and I'm just an assistant:p...however, what works best for me (and the only thing that's really worked consistently) is doing the practice along with them...

Yes, you have to do it with them a lot. This is because of muscle memory. Look at academic schools, they give classes 5 days a week. Kids learn their abc's thru repetition. The same applies in kung fu except you only teach them 2 maybe 3 days a week. So as a kung fu teacher you need to hide as much repetition as you can while you have the kids. Don't just do the exercises with them, but make fun enough that the children are excited to do the techniques along with you. Be creative.

Other factors to look at are children's abilities to learn. Some kids learn easily. Some have a hard time learning. Some have mental issues (Autism / ADD / ADHD etc). Some learn thru different methods, some are visual learners, some are only hands on, some need to be physically put thru the move.

ginosifu

[ginosifu]

Thousands of kids are made into martial arts every year in the schools surrounding Shaolin. Of course, they beat it into them. You can make a kid into anything using punishment. They might come out psycho, but take it from me, there are a lot of psycho martial artists.

Last time I was there, I visited a school in Dengfeng. Man there were thousands of kids. Hundreds (Seriously hundreds!) in every courtyard.

ginosifu

[TenTigers]

my teens class is a lot of fun. They have quick minds, and a great, absurd sense of humor.

my kids class-6-10 yr olds are a lot of fun too. They are eager to learn, eager to please, and have fun.

my Tiger Cubs-4-6 yr olds...oy. That takes a lot of energy. They have a 2 second attention span, not a great deal of understanding,
("Ok, hands up, front kick, no kick. No, your other leg. Keep your hands up. Face me. hands up, No, over here. Come here! Now, fighting stance. No, don't kick me. Stop laughing...")
But, out of five kids, you get one that is really getting it, and you just hope he stays with it.

[zhugeliang]

Last time I was there, I visited a school in Dengfeng. Man there were thousands of kids. Hundreds (Seriously hundreds!) in every courtyard.

That's right, thousands and thousands of mostly boys and some girls. I think there's a youtube vid showing thousands of them training outside in the dirt and then marching back to their dorms for the night.

[GeneChing]

If you don't understand patience, you don't understand kung fu.

[SPJ]

kids are impressionable or moldable like a clay.

inspiring them or motivating them

make them have a genuine interest to learn

--

kids get bored easily

so variations and with lots of patiences with them.

--

they may not get everything "right" right away

at least they are learning something "new" and moving along each day

--

:)

[Lucas]

this isnt about teaching kids but its funny, my friend has a 5yo boy. sometimes when they come to visit i give him a fair of foam padded nunchaku and a empty cardboard box. he'll beat on that thing until he cant move, its really funny. and it allows us to have grown up talk time while we laugh watching him.

[tiaji1983]

teaching kids is the money maker. It takes patience, which I have, but I just cant teach kids. I have 2 kids of my own, and tried to get my 4 year old son interested. The way I was taught is too dificult for my son, and I was taught to teach the way I was taught. If I change the way I was taught, then what I teach would not be as effective as what I was taught.

[bawang]

The way I was taught is too dificult for my son.

you asked me to translate "secret wudang poems" which i googled and found on the back of a dvd.

[tiaji1983]

I asked you to translate poems for me. I didnt know what they said because I do not read Chinese. A friend that reads Mandarin, but does not know the Martial Characters said some of it looked like secret information about thier internal elixir stuff but wasnt sure. I personally still havent found the information in English on Google. But thanks for the help anyway. :)

[tiaji1983]

My sifu was taught by a wudang teacher that Grand Master Ark Yuey Wong brought over when he was staying with him. He did not provide him poems when he was teaching, he just taught. I was fortunate enough to get in touch with someone who emailed the poems to me and was asking for assistance. I still dont understand what you find so offensive about that. just let it go already. I started my son with the Shaolin Stepping Routine and he didnt want to practice it, he kept complaining about his legs hurting. Hes a 4 year old, so I didnt continue to force him. He'll come around when he's older. for now Ill probably stick him in Karate or something.

[bawang]

you insisted i was wrong and you have the secret transmission from some wudang guy who escaped from communist and passed it to some chinatown guy ark wang.


I still dont understand what you find so offensive about that.

you wanted to teach people stuff from the back of a dvd

[瓜娃子]

Chinatown has VCD's. That VCD wudang poem is very secret. I wouldn't know because those VCD's are for old people. I go strait for the Japanese porn...the kind that is illegal in Japan, yet available in Chinatown.

[tiaji1983]

lol I didnt want to teach anyone anything from the back of a DVD. I was not insisting anything, just hoping you would translate it for me. I was looking for a translation to the information I sent you. when you said you wouldnt translate it, I asked someone else, when they said it would be too much work, I used google translator to see if it could make sense of it. All I got were the names of the forms.

The text I sent you contained poems for Wudang Taiji 13 movement form, an explanation of Wudang Taiyi Wuxing Boxing (which is probably what my friend was reading because it does talk about cultivation but is far from secret), Wudang Dragon, Wudang Bajiquan, Wudang Baguazhang, Wudang Xuanwu Boxing, The Wudang Xuanwu 2nd Set, Wudang Mysterious Fist, Wudang Dao, Wudang Taiyi Wuxing Narrow Sword (Daoist Sword), Wudang 8 Immortals Boxing, and Wudang 8 Immortals Staff. If all that was on the back of a DVD... Wow... Plus the way Wudang Poems are written, its impossible to learn a form from a poem, and some of that stuff is not even on DVD at this time.

I dont know how you jumped to such conclusions. Why didnt you just ask me?

[瓜娃子]

So...how come you aren't allowed around children anymore?

[wolf3001]

I don't like teaching kids especially if they are not my own. I have taken on my ex girlfriend's kids her son likes it and at least tries but her 2 daughters they don't always want to be there and would rather mess around. I tell them to do something and they say they don't want to. I told one to do something and she told me she was practicing some other thing that wasn't important at the time. I just tell them to sit down or whatever. It takes away from my time with others who are there to learn. If or when I have a kid I plan to teach them as soon as they are able I want my kids to be able to handle themselves. My friend has 3 daughters and he is very serious about teaching them once they are ready they are learning a bit now. Once they were at a ball game and some guy was trying to get several kids to come with him to go look for bugs when he noticed one was not there he quickly found her and scolded her fairly harshly for it. She was crying about it because he scared her. I sat down with her and told her he only did it because it's true and he cares about her. Some people are just bad they will take you away do horrible things to you and then you will just disappear.

As a kid I knew things and I was allowed to have knives at a fairly young age I carried one most places because I knew I wasn't physically strong enough to really fight off an adult. My ex girlfriend's oldest daughter now delivers papers in a bad area of town I worry about her at times because she is just to girly. She wants to learn but then has issues with training with me or others when we start getting sweaty. I told her if something happens run don't allow someone to take you anywhere claw their face bite kick and scream. Some local teen raped and sodomized his girlfriend. He then strangled her, snapped her neck, slit her throat, shot her then burned her after that he threw her in my sister in laws parents dumpster. She was going to leave him reportedly because he was seeing some other girl. His mother may have even helped to clean up the blood. People are just ****ed up.

[SPJ]

kids class is tough

but nothing serious though

somehow inspire their interests and hopefully life long

that is most important

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