Star Wars - Stole More from Wuxia than from Samurai Cinema?!?

[SimonM]

Hi there,

A while ago my wife and I watched a Chinese TV serial based on Datang Youxia Zhuan.

Afterward I remarked on how simmilar the structure of the plot was to Star Wars.

So I looked into it and the things that were basically the same appeared not to have been changes made by the TV producers - apparently they were rooted in the original text (unless my sources sucked - if I am wrong please feel free to correct me).

I'd love to get my hands on an English translation but sadly Wuxiapedia is no-go.

In fact Wuxiapedia is such a land of broken dreams (and half-finished translations) that I basically said "fine then, I'll just make my own Wuxia novels, with blackjack.... and hookers..."

Anyway, tangent done, Datang Youxia Zhuan was written by Liang Yusheng between 1963 and 1964 (over a decade before Star Wars).

In it the young protagonist is interested in joining with rebel bands but has not done so at the start of the story.

A family massacre drives him out of his home wandering.

The monarch is propped up by a mysterious man in black with terrible powers and a strange fascination with the protagonist.

The protagonist meets a strange hermit who teaches him how to fight and gives him the paternal affection largely missing from his home life.

The protagonist has a series of adventures during which the sordid past of his family comes to life culminating in the discovery that the mysterious man in black is, in fact, his supposedly-deceased-father.

The protagonist goes head-to-head against the forces of evil and is nearly killed when, in a redemptive moment the darkfather figure sacrifices himself to save the life of his son.

So, yeah, somewhere Lucas has an english translation of Datang Youxia Zhuan is my guess.

And I WANT it. :p

[Lucas]

sounds like you are on to something. George Lucas is a schmuck

[ShaolinDan]

"Hero with a Thousand Faces," by Joseph Campbell was published in 1949, maybe both movies are based on his work?

[ShaolinDan]

Lucas is a schmuck, but was he when he made star wars? I think it's something he became later...could be wrong though. :)

[Lucas]

I am not!!!!

[ShaolinDan]

lol, I just read my post over...Sorry, Lucas, you are wicked cool. Really. :)

[Lucas]

lol im just messin. i know whacha mean ;)

but thanks!!! ur wicked cool too! :D

[Kevin73]

I think George Lucas has been very open that he wanted to create a new modern day fairy tale and drew his source material from existing stories and especially was influenced by Joseph Campbell who talked about the similarities of many myths.

Here is a synopsis of the story, doesn't sound like what you described and doesn't really sound like Star Wars either.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datang_Youxia_Zhuan

Here is a link to many of the stories and films that Lucas got ideas from
http://cineleet.com/2008/05/22/before-the-galaxy-far-far-away/

[SimonM]

On the issue of Campbell I'd like to point out that he was himself basically just popularizing the works of Claude Levi Strauss and that both drew heavily on Jung.

[David Jamieson]

Star Wars borrowed, and heavily from the Zohar (Kaballah).

"The Force" is a Jewish mystical concept.

wuxia? not sure that much and besides, hero myths are prominent in all cultures.

Parsifal is closer to star wars than wuxia I think.

also, Akira Kurosawa's Dark Knight/ The Hidden Fortress is the template for episode 4 the first star wars movie.

[wenshu]

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-fsvHluVnyBk/TWJnh_7TYjI/AAAAAAAAAEo/4Sn1PDl6Kug/s1600/china_problem.png


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Golden_Bough
Often overlooked influence on the original Star Wars trilogy mythos.
Coppola also referenced Frazier in Apocolypse Now!, Lucas, Coppola and the other big directors to emerge in the 70's were all classmates and friends and had similar influences.

"The Force" is a mystical jewish concept?

god**** Jamieson, drinking already?

[wenshu]

Hi there,

A while ago my wife and I watched a Chinese TV serial based on Datang Youxia Zhuan.

Afterward I remarked on how simmilar the structure of the plot was to Star Wars.

So I looked into it and the things that were basically the same appeared not to have been changes made by the TV producers - apparently they were rooted in the original text (unless my sources sucked - if I am wrong please feel free to correct me).

I'd love to get my hands on an English translation but sadly Wuxiapedia is no-go.

In fact Wuxiapedia is such a land of broken dreams (and half-finished translations) that I basically said "fine then, I'll just make my own Wuxia novels, with blackjack.... and hookers..."

Anyway, tangent done, Datang Youxia Zhuan was written by Liang Yusheng between 1963 and 1964 (over a decade before Star Wars).

In it the young protagonist is interested in joining with rebel bands but has not done so at the start of the story.

A family massacre drives him out of his home wandering.

The monarch is propped up by a mysterious man in black with terrible powers and a strange fascination with the protagonist.

The protagonist meets a strange hermit who teaches him how to fight and gives him the paternal affection largely missing from his home life.

The protagonist has a series of adventures during which the sordid past of his family comes to life culminating in the discovery that the mysterious man in black is, in fact, his supposedly-deceased-father.

The protagonist goes head-to-head against the forces of evil and is nearly killed when, in a redemptive moment the darkfather figure sacrifices himself to save the life of his son.

So, yeah, somewhere Lucas has an english translation of Datang Youxia Zhuan is my guess.

And I WANT it. :p

Your conclusion relies on and ultimately fails due to one really big assumption.

That Lucas had the entire arc fully formed when he set out to make the first movie (Episode VI).

It is plainly obvious and well documented that he pretty much made it up as he went along. He had help from others and didn't write all of the first three movies by himself. Do you have any idea how ****ing horrible they would have been had he?

[David Jamieson]

"The Force" is a mystical jewish concept?

god**** Jamieson, drinking already?

The Zohar is concerned with the relationships between the unseen forces of the cosmos and their impact on humanity. In essence, the Bible, upon which the Zohar is based, is a cosmic code that the Zohar deciphers and reveals.

Zohar is a mystical Jewish text that is considered premier to Kaballah.
It was completed by Rabbi Moses de Leon sometime in the 12th or 13th century and deals with a lot of concepts that would likely raise any mans eyebrows.

worth a look to a mind like yours maybe? :)

[Zenshiite]

I made a blog on StarWars.com a few years ago about how Star Wars is a wuxia in space. I do think that as time has gone on more and more has been drawn from kung fu cinema, though probably not wuxia novels specifically. There's obviously more wushu influence in the prequel trilogy and the Jedi have always seemed very very Taoist and with the prequels they've gotten more Shaolin and Wu Tang monastic. While I see other influences in the idea of the Force and the Jedi, I have felt those have been pretty strong influences.

Plus, all the Jedi powers. As they have evolved. In the original trilogy they were mostly precognition and telekinesis where they controlled objects' movement. In the Expanded Universe comics and novels and video games (and pen and paper RPGs) they included things like Force Push, which to me is very similar to alot of the chi blasts you see in the more fantastical wuxia tales. That stuff found its way into the prequel trilogy.

I don't doubt that at its inception GL had probably seen a number of wuxia pian as well as jidai geiki. He's a fan of Kirosawa, and I don't see why he wouldn't be familiar with King Hu. I just don't think King Hu gets mentioned because most Americans aren't familiar with him at all.

[GeneChing]

Would have been better if I managed to get this for Star Wars Day (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=60419), but I still claim victory here. :cool:

Star Wars Characters Reimagined as Mythical Chinese Warriors (http://laughingsquid.com/star-wars-characters-reimagined-as-mythical-chinese-warriors/)
By Justin Page on May 3, 2013

http://laughingsquid.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/il_fullxfull.455381432_e2u0.jpg
Boba Fett

Singapore-based artist Joseph Chiang of Monster Gallery has created a powerful series of illustrations that reimagine characters from Star Wars as mythical Chinese warriors. Prints are available to purchase online at Etsy.

http://laughingsquid.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/il_fullxfull.453328232_anld.jpg
Yoda

http://laughingsquid.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/il_fullxfull.453327582_77fz.jpg
Stormtrooper

http://laughingsquid.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/il_fullxfull.453335771_isc1.jpg
Darth Maul

[sanjuro_ronin]

Yoda is based on the Japanese "Tengu", the mythical "goblin like" creature that taught many of the creators of japanese koryu.

There is more Japanese and Ki in Star wars than any other influence.

[David Jamieson]

Yoda is based on the Japanese "Tengu", the mythical "goblin like" creature that taught many of the creators of japanese koryu.

There is more Japanese and Ki in Star wars than any other influence.

Like I said, look to Akira Kurosawa and The Hidden Fortress which Lucas has confirmed as a heavy influence on several occasions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hidden_Fortress

This doesn't discount the joseph campbell material, the kabbalah material et al that got employed throughout the original trilogy.

specific to Lucas/Kurosawa:

Armond White has said The Hidden Fortress "clearly influenced Hayao Miyazaki's anime feature Princess Mononoke."[2]

George Lucas has acknowledged heavy influence of The Hidden Fortress on Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope,[6] particularly in the technique of telling the story from the perspective of the film's lowliest characters, C-3PO and R2-D2.[7][8] Kurosawa's use of frame wipes (sometimes cleverly hidden by motion within the frame) as a transition device also influenced Star Wars. Lucas' original plot outline for Star Wars also had a strong resemblance to the plot of The Hidden Fortress.[9]

[sanjuro_ronin]

Like I said, look to Akira Kurosawa and The Hidden Fortress which Lucas has confirmed as a heavy influence on several occasions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hidden_Fortress

This doesn't discount the joseph campbell material, the kabbalah material et al that got employed throughout the original trilogy.

specific to Lucas/Kurosawa:

Meh...
Every culture has their notion of "inner force", be it the "ruach" in Hebrew or the "prana" or Chi and Ki.
I don't think Lucas needed to go outside the far eastern motif to get his idea of "the force".
That said it wouldn't surprise me if he did.

[GeneChing]

You all saw that documentary, right? We discussed The Science of Star Wars on our Shaolin Documentaries thread (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?p=665558#post665558) (or at least I posted on it ;))


Yoda is based on the Japanese "Tengu", the mythical "goblin like" creature that taught many of the creators of japanese koryu. What? Oh hell no. Yoda was the ******* child of Kermit and Gonzo (and this coming from someone who is nicknamed Yoda in certain circles :o).