What Southern style is this school teaching?

[LVorenus]

Hi everybody. I'm new here.

I live in the Philadelphia area, and I'm looking for a traditional kung fu school, preferably in the suburbs. I want to do it primarily for fitness and flexibility, but I am also interested in the historical / traditional martial aspect of it.

Recently, I observed a class at a school called Siu Lum Studio, which was founded by a gentleman named Steve L. Sun. Dr. Sun passed away in 2009, but his students are still teaching at his school.

The school offers three separate curricula: Southern, Northern, and Tai Chi.

I would be interested in Southern style, since they offer it several days per week, but I am having trouble pin-pointing the specific Southern lineage... or even the style that they teach. It says tiger/crane, but I'm not so sure, based on the other info provided.

Here's a link to the page (http://www.siulum.com/3.html) with their curriculum.

Here's an excerpt:

Curriculum
Southern Style (Tiger Crane) Kung Fu
SiuLum Studio's Southern Style Kung Fu offers training in the martial arts of the Fujian province of Southeastern China. Our curriculum is based on the Tiger Crane system which combines the two most famous Fujian styles. These systems stress strong and powerful Kung Fu (Tiger) combined with fluid Kung Fu (Crane); a combination that developed into Karate.

Grandmaster Dr. Steve L. Sun was renowned as a teacher of Fujian Kung Fu. For example, Dr. Sun he was welcomed at the Shaolin Temple to learn qin na (joint locking and pressure points) and was officially registered as a 33rd generation disciple of the Temple.

In addition to the Tiger Crane system and qin na, Siu Lum Studio's curriculum includes other traditional forms, such as Golden Eagle, Cobra Snake, and traditional weapons training.

What do you guys make of it? Have you heard of this specific person and/or his students?

Thanks!

[Snipsky]

you naughty boy!!!!!!

[LVorenus]

Oh no... I broke a rule, didn't I?

For the record, I did search before posting.

[JamesC]

Nah, I think Snipsky is just high.

[Snipsky]

Nah, I think Snipsky is just high.

HEY!.....in no way do i participate in illegal activities.....thank you.

[LVorenus]

HEY!.....in no way do i participate in illegal activities.....thank you.

He could've meant "high on life!"

[Snipsky]

He could've meant "high on life!"

that's true. but i don't know about that JamesC guy.....i have my eye on him. :p

[kfman5F]

I would wary of any "traditional" styles who have a belt ranking system. That's not traditional. Do they charge for belt testing?

[TenTigers]

I would wary of any "traditional" styles who have a belt ranking system. That's not traditional. Do they charge for belt testing?
whaddya live under a rock?:D
Many traditional schools have adopted a ranking system.

[Snipsky]

whaddya live under a rock?
Many traditional schools have adopted a ranking system.

many....but not all. :D

[bawang]

whaddya live under a rock?:D
Many traditional schools have adopted a ranking system.

nope fgdfgdfgdfg

[ShortBridge]

Someone may know better than me, but when I see "southern" and "Tiger/Crane" together, then I think "Hung Gar".

However when I see someone teaching a broad range of traditional styles, then I suspect that they are not purely anything.

Question 1) Is it important to you that you learn something with a traceable linage?

Question 2) Did you like the school and feel like you would like to train there?

[aussie1981]

Hmm Choy Lay Fut we had a belt System but Yang Mian we don't, nothing wrong with belt system and I think it can be more helpful than not with the Shaolin derived styles. Definately good to have a set curriculum so the style is transparent.

[David Jamieson]

Siu Lum Tiger/Crane = southern shaolin kung fu.
It doesn't belong to a specific lineage and there are many "tiger/crane" schools that teach Hung Kuen.

Sometimes it does belong to a lineage, but there may be a hush hush or embarrassing Tong cum triad connection etc etc.

northern could be anything. Preying mantis, BSL, etc etc.


There is reference to the school founder being a disciple of Su-Xi.
That can be verified or refuted.

[hskwarrior]

Siu Lum Tiger/Crane = southern shaolin kung fu.
It doesn't belong to a specific lineage and there are many "tiger/crane" schools that teach Hung Kuen.

I agree with this in regards to it being southern shaolin gung fu. The idea or essence of Tiger/Crane is also found in Hung Sing Choy Lee Fut.


Sometimes it does belong to a lineage, but there may be a hush hush or embarrassing Tong cum triad connection etc etc.

I don't know what that has to do with the embarrassing tong cum triad connection. Still, what would be so embarrassing?

[Ozzy Dave]

SiuLum Studio's Southern Style Kung Fu offers training in the martial arts of the Fujian province of Southeastern China. Our curriculum is based on the Tiger Crane system which combines the two most famous Fujian styles.

There is a southern Fujian style called the "Tiger Crane Combination" which is a mixture of Yong Chun White Crane and Grand Ancestor (Tai Chor in Hokkien).

It doesn't to my knowledge have any link with Hung Ga in general and in particular WFH Hung Ga and it's Tiger Crane form.

Dave

[LVorenus]

Wow. Thanks for the responses, everybody.


Someone may know better than me, but when I see "southern" and "Tiger/Crane" together, then I think "Hung Gar".

However when I see someone teaching a broad range of traditional styles, then I suspect that they are not purely anything.

Question 1) Is it important to you that you learn something with a traceable linage?

Question 2) Did you like the school and feel like you would like to train there?


Answer 1) Yes.

Answer 2) Sort of.


Let me elaborate:

My background is in traditional Okinawan Goju-Ryu Karate. My dojo was very traditional and could trace its lineage back to the founder of the style. Comparing the technique and quality of instruction at my dojo to that of other schools, I definitely saw a difference, and always attributed that difference to a positive correlation between our very legitimate lineage and high quality.

So... yeah. Lineage matters to me.

Some more background:

I practiced karate for four years, and stopped when I busted up my arm in a non-martial-arts-related accident. Two surgeries and a decade later, I found that I really, REALLY missed martial arts, but I was/am concerned about the HEAVY arm-on-arm contact that one experiences in a traditional Goju-Ryu dojo.

Fast-forward to 18 months ago. I picked up Kendo (Japanese fencing), since in that art, the shinai (bamboo sword) and bogu (armor) take the beating... not my arm.

I have found that I like Kendo, and will continue it, but I still feel like I'm missing the hand-to-hand aspect more than I expected.

In the Philly area, we have several kung-fu schools, and I figured that it wouldn't hurt to take a look at each before jumping into anything. I've already ruled out two or three, but thus far, I've been pleased with the fact that nothing they're doing in these kung-fu schools seems like it would mess up my arm... so kung-fu in general seems like it could work for me.

Siu Lum... the school I posted about, seemed to have a lot of techniques that looked really similar to what I'm used to from Goju-Ryu (circular blocks and footwork), but there was zero contact (Good!). Also, it's affordable and easy to get to. Still though, something in the back of my mind is questioning the lineage of the school, and that bothers me.

Also, I may need to move from this area in a few months because of work, and if that happens, I want to make sure I'm studying a style that I can take with me from Philly up to North Jersey (which is where I may end up, if I end up moving).

Tomorrow I am going to watch a class at Cheung's Hung Gar, which is supposed to be a very good school with a legitimate lineage.

Thanks again for the responses.

[pateticorecords]

A couple of Kung Fu schools you should check out in the area.


Here is a Mantis School in Lansdowne, PA (Near 69th street) http://www.grantskungfuacademy.com/about_sifu.html

Philadelphia Wing Chun Kung Fu
http://www.philadelphiawingchun.com/

The Ba'z Tai Chi and Kung Fu Studio
http://baztaichi.com/

Kwong Sai Jook Lum Gee Nam Tong Long Pai, as taught by 5th Generation Master, Gin Foon Mark.
http://www.southernprayingmantis.com/root/schools/philadelphia-pa.html

Northern Shaolin Kung Fu and Tai Chi Academy
http://www.northernshaolinacademy.com/new/NsaSiteIntro.asp

SIU LUM STUDIO Havertown, PA
http://www.siulum.com

[LVorenus]

Thanks!

The last school you mentioned (Siu Lum in Havertown) is the one to which I was referring in my original post.

I'm having a hard time figuring out what style they teach, but I think I'm going to give them a second look.

I had already stumbled across the other schools you mentioned, EXCEPT for the mantis schools.

I just sent an e-mail out to the guy (allegedly) teaching in Philadelphia under Gin Foon Mark. I didn't see anything about class schedules on their site, so I'm wondering if they teach regularly.

Thanks again!

[pateticorecords]

Thanks!

The last school you mentioned (Siu Lum in Havertown) is the one to which I was referring in my original post.

I'm having a hard time figuring out what style they teach, but I think I'm going to give them a second look.

I had already stumbled across the other schools you mentioned, EXCEPT for the mantis schools.

I just sent an e-mail out to the guy (allegedly) teaching in Philadelphia under Gin Foon Mark. I didn't see anything about class schedules on their site, so I'm wondering if they teach regularly.

Thanks again!


I have seen several competitors from the Siu Lum Academy... they are very good, it is more Shaolin oriented if you ask me.

The Kwong Sai Jook Lum Gee Nam Tong Long Pai peeps get together in Media and Broomall several times a week- you can find more info here http://www.meetup.com/martial-204/events/25310811/?a=md1o_lnm&rv=md1o


I also invite you to come and train with us if you'd like but I teach more of a diversified curriculum utilizing TCMA as the basis. It's a Non-Profit program I run in Media.

[LVorenus]

I have seen several competitors from the Siu Lum Academy... they are very good, it is more Shaolin oriented if you ask me.

The Kwong Sai Jook Lum Gee Nam Tong Long Pai peeps get together in Media and Broomall several times a week- you can find more info here http://www.meetup.com/martial-204/events/25310811/?a=md1o_lnm&rv=md1o


I also invite you to come and train with us if you'd like but I teach more of a diversified curriculum utilizing TCMA as the basis. It's a Non-Profit program I run in Media.

Thanks again.

Can I come and observe in Media some Wednesday?

I am currently in contact with the southern mantis guys; sounds legit! :)

-Vin

[pateticorecords]

Thanks again.

Can I come and observe in Media some Wednesday?

I am currently in contact with the southern mantis guys; sounds legit! :)

-Vin

Sifu John O'Hara (Sai Jook Lum Praying Mantis Kung fu) has come to my classes. He is a nice guy.

You are more than welcome to come by and check us out. We have 3 training areas to our disposal (1 training hall, 1 basement, and a Japanese Garden).

Depending on the night we would incorporate Southern and Northern Kung Fu principles, Self Defense, Combat Applications, Qin Na (joint holds/locks), Chi Sau (sticky hands training), Pressure Points, Shuai Jiao (Chinese grappling) principles, Throws, Wrestling/Grappling (I help coach High School Varsity Wrestlers), Forms, Weapons Training, Qigong, and more.

We get together Wednesday nights 7-9 PM and we spar Saturday mornings 9-11 AM. It's $3 a session.

All levels, different backgrounds, different ages... great group of people that work together! :)

Hope you can make it, all of my contact information is available on our site, feel free to call or email if you have any additional questions.

Have a great day!

[LVorenus]

Thanks again, Tom.


Just to follow up on my original post (in case anybody's wondering), I went back to Siu Lum and asked the instructor a few questions.

Basically, their system is based on Fujian Tiger-Crane, but has elements of other styles mixed into it. Apparently, Dr. Sun was constantly tinkering with their curriculum.

I stuck around for a while, and in my opinion, they definitely know what they're doing.

I still want to meet with the southern mantis guys and see what that's about. I have a feeling that I'm going to end up training at more than one place.

[GSteve]

If you're looking in the Havertown area then you probably aren't too far from Ambler. My teacher, Sifu Mark Wiley is teacher of Ngo Cho Kun (Five Ancestor Fist). He is always willing to form a small group, have you join an existing group, or teach privately. His lineage traces back to the founder of the system through his teacher Master Alex Co. Sifu Wiley is very traditional and knowledgable and emphasizes on full transmission and understanding of the style. There is more info and contact information on the Beng Kiam Nho Cho Kun website. Good luck in your search.

www.bengkiam.com