k gledhill
07-12-2011, 06:23 AM
Siu Lim Tau
One starts with the 1st form and should round it out relatively good already. The main subject is the elbow. The idea about the usage of the elbow should be explained again and again, what you are thinking of while doing the form is important.
Dahn Chi
Next step is Dahn Chi - to go in a distance, in which one cannot touch each other, but not too far. In this phase the elbow is the most important subject. The arms of both practitioners do not apply any pressure in no direction.
Palm strike from the elbow.
Opposite does JamSau, elbow goes to the inside and lowers, but not the wrist! The palm-striker lets himself get deflected and stops after a full stretch with a slightly bent elbow. Fist strike from the opposite with a low elbow until fully stretched, other person with Bong Sau, rotation without big change in wrist positon...
Poon Sao
follows as next exercise. After Dan Chi runs super, coordination of both arms is no big problem anymore. The exchange of force is the most important in the beginning... here has to come structure into the body, so that a good training partner is being "created". Next procedure is the flowing change of sides whithout loosing any exchange of force...
With regular training 8hrs a week, there shouldn´t have passed more than 3 months!
Question from Eric Lornz to Philipp Bayer:
Does it make sense to mediate Chi Sao to a student who is not yet able to perform Dahn Chi?
Philipp Bayer replies:
Without Dahn Chi it is exraordinarily difficult to begin Pohn Sao and even more Chi Sao... there are always exeptions, but in this field very very rarely.
Training with the punching pad
When the elbow develops in the right way through SiuLimTao, the Dahn Chi and Pohn Sao one should begin training with the punching pad, so that also impulse-like force acts on the line of force (elbow, hips, leg, foot). Through training with the punching pad the body is given a feedback, which significantly improves striking force. The punches are not allowed to be "set up" but have to come out of the elbow and butt. Fequent mistake: Hitting from the upper body.
Chum Kiu and Mok Jan Chong
If Pohn Sao is good one starts with the Cham Kiu.. I teach it at once until just before the last kick.. so don't divide it in thirds.
Thus body rotations, turns with Bong Wu, synchronicity of Jat and Pak, steps and rotation of the Bong Sao.
The important points of the Chum Kiu:
At first, our "first idea" is everywhere: The chain of force from the ground to the punch.
Use your hip in the 180° turns and watch the foot positioning. Short turning durations, that means strong rotation around the axis of the body, train for balance which is necessary to have during changes in direction! Bong and Wu Sao have to become a unit, so that punching during Bong becomes possible (Kwan Sao). Through explosive turning around the axis, high accelerating forces will occur. Overshooting with the arms can happen quickly. Do not forget about the elbow. The 2nd form has many possibilities to minimize these errors... But without the wooden dummy that won´t suffice. Synchronicity of movement, of fist strike with the shock-like Jut and Pak, comply with the elbow positions and height of the arms is already included in the first movements of the Chum Kiu.
Question from 'rnr' to Philipp Bayer:
What do you mean by taining with the punching pad? Do you mean the wallbag or do you also work with paws as soon as Pohn Sao is working to some extent? Striking from more disadvantageous positions as they (can) occur in training with paws, is included, as far as I can survey this, rather in the Chum Kiu. What do you mean with "setting up" a strike? That the target is pushed (with action of the upper body) after contact with the fist is established?
Philipp Bayer replies:
I mean the wall punching pad. It´s hard to believe that in WT one almost only "bangs around" in the air. Countless bursts of chain punches in the air. If one thinks about how often we don´t really hit (which at the end is logical), in addition the strikes in the forms, one can calculate how little one really understands about real striking. To perform a strike in the form in order to maintain and to define a pattern in the brain is one thing - to use this pattern in reality is another. Body and mind are needed here, otherwise it stays castles in the air.
I had somebody here yesterday who practiced WT for 5 years (he quit today) and in the pure meaning of the way of speaking can not even hurt a fly. He wasn´t even aware of it.... how was that again with the self conciousness ?!? At least about one thing he became aware of, everyone who belongs to a boxing club and trains about as intense as himself can hit - why is that? Exactly, they hit aigainst sandbags and also elsewise, they hit for real! Their bodies have learned to develop the muscles needed to unfold force and even more, alongside the eyes have learned, a feeling about distance has developed just like that - namely through pratice!
You know the game of LatSao-CheckChung. Invest a little more time into exercise, go ahead and every once in a while almost exclusively train punching for a week... LatSauCheckChung to develop more precision and initial energy... guaranteed, from nothing there comes out even less!
Ok... so far to the extraordinarily important training with the punching pad.
Cutting off the way
is one of the objectives which passes over into the body through training with the dummy, in ChiSau and in the 2nd form. One of the big problems in fighting is represented by managing to safely pursue the opponent. The one who doesn´t have the cutting-off-the-way "in his blood" is in danger of running into the attacks of the evading opponent since he´s only chasing him - but not restricting him, respectively not being able to immediately shorten the distance. Until now I found out that in WT out of fear one even searches and wants to control the leg of the opponent. Exaclty this is the first step on the endless woodway. Through intending to stick to the leg one restricts himself far too much... the one who wants to control wil loose all!
If one wants to condition the right stepping technique, suficcient methods are being held ready in Ving Tsun. Only to name a few:
... almost all sections (exepting kicking sections) train this step. Attend to pertinently rush into the wooden dummy's leg... exactly as strong as the corresponding movement of the arm - AND! Full rotating in with the hip. Always think of the whole body having to be trained, so to speak the whole body has to arrive as one compact unit. Training of the first 5 sections is actually mandatory at each day of training, even if it is only once or twice!
Next there is the part in the ChumKiu (Bong/Wu sidestep), here again, finish up with everything alltogether, again this means Bong/Wu with step as a unit. Make yourself clear that Bong and Wu think in the same direction - not Bong forward and Wu backwards!
In addition, Wong taught me this step in an exercise much beloved by me in ChiSau or LapSau. He suddenly moved away sidewards while he lightly hit me in the lower side ... nevertheless only indicated. I had to close the gap through Jut, fiststrike and sidestep. This way you get rid of the on the one hand "natural" reaction to evade the punch and because of this only running after him, on the other hand this develops the focus which is necessary to attack and not to defend after all. As soon as one is fast enough and has success, he is becoming more and more secure. After some time, this practice of step technique implements itself into almost every exercise automatically... without thinking.
Besides that I saw some different stepping technique barely two hours ago which likewise impressed me.... it were lightly dressed brazilian legs indeed.... alas, the whole thing was called Samba Tongue.
One starts with the 1st form and should round it out relatively good already. The main subject is the elbow. The idea about the usage of the elbow should be explained again and again, what you are thinking of while doing the form is important.
Dahn Chi
Next step is Dahn Chi - to go in a distance, in which one cannot touch each other, but not too far. In this phase the elbow is the most important subject. The arms of both practitioners do not apply any pressure in no direction.
Palm strike from the elbow.
Opposite does JamSau, elbow goes to the inside and lowers, but not the wrist! The palm-striker lets himself get deflected and stops after a full stretch with a slightly bent elbow. Fist strike from the opposite with a low elbow until fully stretched, other person with Bong Sau, rotation without big change in wrist positon...
Poon Sao
follows as next exercise. After Dan Chi runs super, coordination of both arms is no big problem anymore. The exchange of force is the most important in the beginning... here has to come structure into the body, so that a good training partner is being "created". Next procedure is the flowing change of sides whithout loosing any exchange of force...
With regular training 8hrs a week, there shouldn´t have passed more than 3 months!
Question from Eric Lornz to Philipp Bayer:
Does it make sense to mediate Chi Sao to a student who is not yet able to perform Dahn Chi?
Philipp Bayer replies:
Without Dahn Chi it is exraordinarily difficult to begin Pohn Sao and even more Chi Sao... there are always exeptions, but in this field very very rarely.
Training with the punching pad
When the elbow develops in the right way through SiuLimTao, the Dahn Chi and Pohn Sao one should begin training with the punching pad, so that also impulse-like force acts on the line of force (elbow, hips, leg, foot). Through training with the punching pad the body is given a feedback, which significantly improves striking force. The punches are not allowed to be "set up" but have to come out of the elbow and butt. Fequent mistake: Hitting from the upper body.
Chum Kiu and Mok Jan Chong
If Pohn Sao is good one starts with the Cham Kiu.. I teach it at once until just before the last kick.. so don't divide it in thirds.
Thus body rotations, turns with Bong Wu, synchronicity of Jat and Pak, steps and rotation of the Bong Sao.
The important points of the Chum Kiu:
At first, our "first idea" is everywhere: The chain of force from the ground to the punch.
Use your hip in the 180° turns and watch the foot positioning. Short turning durations, that means strong rotation around the axis of the body, train for balance which is necessary to have during changes in direction! Bong and Wu Sao have to become a unit, so that punching during Bong becomes possible (Kwan Sao). Through explosive turning around the axis, high accelerating forces will occur. Overshooting with the arms can happen quickly. Do not forget about the elbow. The 2nd form has many possibilities to minimize these errors... But without the wooden dummy that won´t suffice. Synchronicity of movement, of fist strike with the shock-like Jut and Pak, comply with the elbow positions and height of the arms is already included in the first movements of the Chum Kiu.
Question from 'rnr' to Philipp Bayer:
What do you mean by taining with the punching pad? Do you mean the wallbag or do you also work with paws as soon as Pohn Sao is working to some extent? Striking from more disadvantageous positions as they (can) occur in training with paws, is included, as far as I can survey this, rather in the Chum Kiu. What do you mean with "setting up" a strike? That the target is pushed (with action of the upper body) after contact with the fist is established?
Philipp Bayer replies:
I mean the wall punching pad. It´s hard to believe that in WT one almost only "bangs around" in the air. Countless bursts of chain punches in the air. If one thinks about how often we don´t really hit (which at the end is logical), in addition the strikes in the forms, one can calculate how little one really understands about real striking. To perform a strike in the form in order to maintain and to define a pattern in the brain is one thing - to use this pattern in reality is another. Body and mind are needed here, otherwise it stays castles in the air.
I had somebody here yesterday who practiced WT for 5 years (he quit today) and in the pure meaning of the way of speaking can not even hurt a fly. He wasn´t even aware of it.... how was that again with the self conciousness ?!? At least about one thing he became aware of, everyone who belongs to a boxing club and trains about as intense as himself can hit - why is that? Exactly, they hit aigainst sandbags and also elsewise, they hit for real! Their bodies have learned to develop the muscles needed to unfold force and even more, alongside the eyes have learned, a feeling about distance has developed just like that - namely through pratice!
You know the game of LatSao-CheckChung. Invest a little more time into exercise, go ahead and every once in a while almost exclusively train punching for a week... LatSauCheckChung to develop more precision and initial energy... guaranteed, from nothing there comes out even less!
Ok... so far to the extraordinarily important training with the punching pad.
Cutting off the way
is one of the objectives which passes over into the body through training with the dummy, in ChiSau and in the 2nd form. One of the big problems in fighting is represented by managing to safely pursue the opponent. The one who doesn´t have the cutting-off-the-way "in his blood" is in danger of running into the attacks of the evading opponent since he´s only chasing him - but not restricting him, respectively not being able to immediately shorten the distance. Until now I found out that in WT out of fear one even searches and wants to control the leg of the opponent. Exaclty this is the first step on the endless woodway. Through intending to stick to the leg one restricts himself far too much... the one who wants to control wil loose all!
If one wants to condition the right stepping technique, suficcient methods are being held ready in Ving Tsun. Only to name a few:
... almost all sections (exepting kicking sections) train this step. Attend to pertinently rush into the wooden dummy's leg... exactly as strong as the corresponding movement of the arm - AND! Full rotating in with the hip. Always think of the whole body having to be trained, so to speak the whole body has to arrive as one compact unit. Training of the first 5 sections is actually mandatory at each day of training, even if it is only once or twice!
Next there is the part in the ChumKiu (Bong/Wu sidestep), here again, finish up with everything alltogether, again this means Bong/Wu with step as a unit. Make yourself clear that Bong and Wu think in the same direction - not Bong forward and Wu backwards!
In addition, Wong taught me this step in an exercise much beloved by me in ChiSau or LapSau. He suddenly moved away sidewards while he lightly hit me in the lower side ... nevertheless only indicated. I had to close the gap through Jut, fiststrike and sidestep. This way you get rid of the on the one hand "natural" reaction to evade the punch and because of this only running after him, on the other hand this develops the focus which is necessary to attack and not to defend after all. As soon as one is fast enough and has success, he is becoming more and more secure. After some time, this practice of step technique implements itself into almost every exercise automatically... without thinking.
Besides that I saw some different stepping technique barely two hours ago which likewise impressed me.... it were lightly dressed brazilian legs indeed.... alas, the whole thing was called Samba Tongue.