MMA did Help the Evolution of TCMA

[MightyB]

MMA did help the evolution of TCMA. It gave it a healthy dose of "c'mon man - quit pulling my leg with that crap". But honestly - I think the horse has been done beat to death. There are a lot of posters who put up good techniques and bring up good points. What I'm getting tired of is this dogmatic this or that attitude or stance that's being brought by both sides. Instead of comparing and sharing - it's always the same "my p3nis is bigger than your p3nis" argument. How about having a - "have you guys thought about incorporating this technique to counter a single leg takedown?" discussions instead of these "if it ain't MMA it's stupid" (with a polite but contemptious nod to SanDa - polite, but it's not Thai Boxing so it ain't a real MA).

[Snipsky]

MMA did help the evolution of MMA

Type o? .............................

[Snipsky]

This forum has become a safe haven for trolls.

However, everything gets its time in the spot light. Kung Fu had it, TKD, BJJ, UFC.....now its MMA. what will be next? Maybe realistic battle with real weaponry?

what matters is that what BJJ and MMA has done for the further evolution of TCMA. in my opinion its a good thing and we need to give thanks where it is deserved. The strong will survive and the rest will fall to the way side.

I can say Muay Thai and HOW they train woke me up to better way of training. BJJ made me realize that its necessary to have good ground skills, not just for sport but in case on the streets you go to the ground. What MMA has done for me was made me see that our conditioning and reliance on the expectation of "IT JUST BEING THERE" cause i trained so long was false.

WU DE messed up TCMA more than anything cause it stole the essence of what it was all about in the first place. People who fought in the streets were called THUGS while the intellectuals and biatches would preach about Wu De while the thugs went out and fought it out and learned what worked and what didn't. some teachers would tell their students not to come back unless they got into a fight. much of that has been lost.

MMA did to kung fu what the cell phone did to the beeper. while the beeper became obsolete, it was incorporated into the cell phones then turned into text paging. it got swallowed up into the latest in technology. The beeper could have survived if it included a way for two way communication but it couldn't cut it.

some kung fu people have woken up and going with the flow. you are seeing more and more TCMA in the ring more than ever now even though its not that often.

[faxiapreta]

MMA did help the evolution of MMA. It gave it a healthy dose of "c'mon man - quit pulling my leg with that crap". But honestly - I think the horse has been done beat to death. There are a lot of posters who put up good techniques and bring up good points. What I'm getting tired of is this dogmatic this or that attitude or stance that's being brought by both sides. Instead of comparing and sharing - it's always the same "my p3nis is bigger than your p3nis" argument. How about having a - "have you guys thought about incorporating this technique to counter a single leg takedown?" discussions instead of these "if it ain't MMA it's stupid" (with a polite but contemptious nod to SanDa - polite, but it's not Thai Boxing so it ain't a real MA).

Based on a lot of the posts here regarding Iron Palm, stance training, Jow, unrealistic techniques with no evidence behind them, pressure points, etc, MMA had no healthy effect on many people. They are just as deluded as ever.

[Lucas]

Based on a lot of the posts here regarding Iron Palm, stance training, Jow, unrealistic techniques with no evidence behind them, pressure points, etc, MMA had no healthy effect on many people. They are just as deluded as ever.

yes every single person on the planet. you have interviewed them all and in no way focus on those individuals you want to. :rolleyes:

[Snipsky]

Based on a lot of the posts here regarding Iron Palm, stance training, Jow, unrealistic techniques with no evidence behind them, pressure points, etc, MMA had no healthy effect on many people. They are just as deluded as ever.

you so full of positivity

[wenshu]

Based on a lot of the posts here regarding Iron Palm, stance training, Jow, unrealistic techniques with no evidence behind them, pressure points, etc, MMA had no healthy effect on many people. They are just as deluded as ever.

To that list I would add hanging out at places where you have no interest in anything being discussed other than to entertain your own inferiority complex.

Look, I don't come down to your forum and start pontificating about how to properly apply a ball gag on your gimp.

[Snipsky]

and Faxiepretty is still upset that he couldn't beat a kung fu guy at something as simple as a horse stance. howwwwww LAME is that :rolleyes:

He would LOSE....LOSE.....LOSE.......but he'd still talk smack, its the only time his life partner lets him out of his cage.

[lkfmdc]

modern MMA was a golden opportunity for all martial arts and martial artists and you can certainly find those who DID benefit from the revolution in ideas

Of course, just like in other things some people are threatened by change. This is especially true when that change threatens concepts they have held close for long periods of time and which could be proven false

[Yum Cha]

Too many masters who are no longer students? Too many pompus know-it-alls who struggle to protect their own agenda? Shirley, you jest?

I think its called the Human Condition, and you find it everywhere inversely proportional to the real skill on tap.

Anybody work in Advertising...:D

[David Jamieson]

Let me put it this way...

If we all lived in the 17th century and we shifted all that to the here and now, then all the real"warriors" would be in the front line in Afghanistan. :p

sport has made violence a game and a career pursuit. that's cool it is fun!

real violence is still real violence, sport or not. not so much fun for many.

sport is a safe way to be violent basically.

sport is a halfway good method to learn to be violent.

most of the exercise is in the mind. You need to willfully be able to hurt another human to be violent.

if you can't be violent without being provoked, then it's not likely you will be good at sport violence.

just sayin...

[Snipsky]

most of the exercise is in the mind. You need to willfully be able to hurt another human to be violent.

if you can't be violent without being provoked, then it's not likely you will be good at sport violence.

just sayin...

Do or Die brother.

[David Jamieson]

Do or Die brother.

Fetch wood, carry water.

the best fighters seem almost bored with what they are doing it is at such a relaxed working pace.

my own observation over time.

[SPJ]

lei tai in the old way

you sign a release declaration.

if you injure or die, you may not sue or ask for compensation from the other party.

insurance was not existent, then.

but betting the fight is always there since time immemorial.

---

fighting with rules and safeguards in place is better--

if arm bar or bending elbow joint is not allowed, then ground games have no interests

---

[Northwind]

...snip...
Shirley, you jest?
...snip....

I jest you not! And don't call me Shirley!

[PalmStriker]

TCMA does not require evolution. If you practice what once was for the same purpose as what once was, then you may be affiliated with TCMA. If you want to become a pro tennis player it is not going to get you there by hanging out with the chess club all day, even if they have some things in common.

[Snipsky]

TCMA does not require evolution. If you practice what once was for the same purpose as what once was, then you may be affiliated with TCMA. If you want to become a pro tennis player it is not going to get you there by hanging out with the chess club all day, even if they have some things in common.

When was the last time you've killed someone with your kung fu? simple question, just asking.

[David Jamieson]

When was the last time you've killed someone with your kung fu? simple question, just asking.

when was the last time anyone killed anyone with mma?
tkd? karate? jj? bjj? mt? bb? lol

People get beaten to death on a fairly regular basis around the world.
Somehow I doubt it's done frequently by trained martial artists.

It's one of the bizarre side effects of martial arts study.
It actually tempers your beast! lol

[pateticorecords]

Nicely put!

I believe in incorporating all that you can to progress your skill level and understanding of other arts and combat sports. It helps put into perspective the reality of what you learn traditionally. There is a significant difference, as we all can agree upon, between training for sport, self defense, recreation, or health yet there is a fine line that unifies all of the variants. One can not become complacent, one must always seek to further our martial knowledge, absorb what is useful and incorporate it into your skills.

What I find interesting is that one mindset of thought tries to invalidate the other when both can coexist, learn from each, and flourish.

"don't knock it until you've tried it" :-)




This forum has become a safe haven for trolls.

However, everything gets its time in the spot light. Kung Fu had it, TKD, BJJ, UFC.....now its MMA. what will be next? Maybe realistic battle with real weaponry?

what matters is that what BJJ and MMA has done for the further evolution of TCMA. in my opinion its a good thing and we need to give thanks where it is deserved. The strong will survive and the rest will fall to the way side.

I can say Muay Thai and HOW they train woke me up to better way of training. BJJ made me realize that its necessary to have good ground skills, not just for sport but in case on the streets you go to the ground. What MMA has done for me was made me see that our conditioning and reliance on the expectation of "IT JUST BEING THERE" cause i trained so long was false.

WU DE messed up TCMA more than anything cause it stole the essence of what it was all about in the first place. People who fought in the streets were called THUGS while the intellectuals and biatches would preach about Wu De while the thugs went out and fought it out and learned what worked and what didn't. some teachers would tell their students not to come back unless they got into a fight. much of that has been lost.

MMA did to kung fu what the cell phone did to the beeper. while the beeper became obsolete, it was incorporated into the cell phones then turned into text paging. it got swallowed up into the latest in technology. The beeper could have survived if it included a way for two way communication but it couldn't cut it.

some kung fu people have woken up and going with the flow. you are seeing more and more TCMA in the ring more than ever now even though its not that often.

[TenTigers]

To that list I would add hanging out at places where you have no interest in anything being discussed other than to entertain your own inferiority complex.

Look, I don't come down to your forum and start pontificating about how to properly apply a ball gag on your gimp.
quoted for truth...and for being funny as sh1t!

[PalmStriker]

When was the last time you've killed someone with your kung fu? simple question, just asking.

"Killing does not require Kungfu", just saying.

[Iron_Eagle_76]

All things that do not evolve are essentially dead. Kung Fu or any other martial art is no different. If you practice in a stagnant manner or that such and such technique is the answer to all situations, you have failed.

For example, you have two practioners A. LARP Kung Fu B. MMA/Sanda/Reality based Kung Fu

Practioner A and Practioner B want to learn to stop a double leg takedown. The Kung Fu answer is drop into horse stance, drop and elbow to the back of the head. Reality based answer is the sprawl.

Now most reality based arts will drill this until the sprawl comes naturally, the LARPer will have someone come in slow and unrealistic while he postures and makes it look good to the ignorant eye, convincing the naive this would actually work.

Now the reason I distinguish between LARP and reality is that there is a huge difference and someone who is blinded by an agenda is the only ones who don't recongnize this. But the big difference is there are many more LARPers in Kung Fu than in MMA, and until this changes, this attitude will continue.

[SPJ]

in the 1950s, it was kara te

in the 1960s, it was tae kwan do.

in the 1970s, it was kung fu

--

in the 1990s, it was ufc, mma

in the 2010s, it will be---

--

if the evolution is at work, then what would be the next ---

[sanjuro_ronin]

in the 1950s, it was kara te

in the 1960s, it was tae kwan do.

in the 1970s, it was kung fu

--

in the 1990s, it was ufc, mma

in the 2010s, it will be---

--

if the evolution is at work, then what would be the next ---

Macedonian Buttocks Grappling

[lkfmdc]

Macedonian Buttocks Grappling

you forget the (tm) and since I own that one, please send me $1 via paypal :D

[sanjuro_ronin]

you forget the (tm) and since I own that one, please send me $1 via paypal :D

Dagnabit !!!!:mad:

[lkfmdc]

(evil laughter) :D

[SPJ]

yes, everything is like the fashion/wind/tides, comes and goes

such as in hair styles, long hair/hippie, pony tail, mid length/wavy, crew cut, shaved baldness

such as in skirts

mini, midi, and maxi with thick sole shoes

such as

--

so are fighting fads or popularity

---

[Mattador]

This forum has become a safe haven for trolls.

However, everything gets its time in the spot light. Kung Fu had it, TKD, BJJ, UFC.....now its MMA. what will be next? Maybe realistic battle with real weaponry?

what matters is that what BJJ and MMA has done for the further evolution of TCMA. in my opinion its a good thing and we need to give thanks where it is deserved. The strong will survive and the rest will fall to the way side.

I can say Muay Thai and HOW they train woke me up to better way of training. BJJ made me realize that its necessary to have good ground skills, not just for sport but in case on the streets you go to the ground. What MMA has done for me was made me see that our conditioning and reliance on the expectation of "IT JUST BEING THERE" cause i trained so long was false.

WU DE messed up TCMA more than anything cause it stole the essence of what it was all about in the first place. People who fought in the streets were called THUGS while the intellectuals and biatches would preach about Wu De while the thugs went out and fought it out and learned what worked and what didn't. some teachers would tell their students not to come back unless they got into a fight. much of that has been lost.

MMA did to kung fu what the cell phone did to the beeper. while the beeper became obsolete, it was incorporated into the cell phones then turned into text paging. it got swallowed up into the latest in technology. The beeper could have survived if it included a way for two way communication but it couldn't cut it.

some kung fu people have woken up and going with the flow. you are seeing more and more TCMA in the ring more than ever now even though its not that often.

This post is interesting. BJJ taught you that you the need for ground skills. What have you gained from your tcma training?

[Brule]

to Mattador ^

I have gained the skill to apply my downward elbow to a guy going for the shot.

Just picture a guy flattened out under the elbow:

http://ericcressey.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/joshpapelbon-300x225.jpg

[KC Elbows]

I prefer to use my iron crotch against the double leg. Obvious, really.

[Mattador]

I prefer to use my iron crotch against the double leg. Obvious, really.

Knowing you are probably being truthful

[KC Elbows]

Knowing you are probably being truthful

Forgot a period. English much?

[PalmStriker]

All things that do not evolve are essentially dead. Kung Fu or any other martial art is no different. If you practice in a stagnant manner or that such and such technique is the answer to all situations, you have failed.

For example, you have two practioners A. LARP Kung Fu B. MMA/Sanda/Reality based Kung Fu

Practioner A and Practioner B want to learn to stop a double leg takedown. The Kung Fu answer is drop into horse stance, drop and elbow to the back of the head. Reality based answer is the sprawl.

Now most reality based arts will drill this until the sprawl comes naturally, the LARPer will have someone come in slow and unrealistic while he postures and makes it look good to the ignorant eye, convincing the naive this would actually work.

Now the reason I distinguish between LARP and reality is that there is a huge difference and someone who is blinded by an agenda is the only ones who don't recongnize this. But the big difference is there are many more LARPers in Kung Fu than in MMA, and until this changes, this attitude will continue.

There will always be plenty of larpers in the modern world of kungfu. Shouldn't stop the world of MMA from functioning. Is it a business/marketshare thingy?

[PalmStriker]

in the 1950s, it was kara te

in the 1960s, it was tae kwan do.

in the 1970s, it was kung fu

--

in the 1990s, it was ufc, mma

in the 2010s, it will be---

--

if the evolution is at work, then what would be the next --- Turkish oil wrestling with mild flavored olive oil.

[Lucas]

I prefer to use my iron crotch against the double leg. Obvious, really.

I normally use mine to apply or defend the suplex.

[KC Elbows]

I normally use mine to apply or defend the suplex.

Mere muscling!

[Lucas]

Surely!!!!

[bawang]

Turkish oil wrestling with mild flavored olive oil.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvOPyOkn7cc&feature=channel_video_title

[lkfmdc]

Shirley!!!!

as in the temple?

[Lucas]

as in the temple?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/ba/ShirleyTempleMackenzieKing2b.jpg

[Darthlawyer]

All things that do not evolve are essentially dead. Kung Fu or any other martial art is no different. If you practice in a stagnant manner or that such and such technique is the answer to all situations, you have failed.

For example, you have two practioners A. LARP Kung Fu B. MMA/Sanda/Reality based Kung Fu

Practioner A and Practioner B want to learn to stop a double leg takedown. The Kung Fu answer is drop into horse stance, drop and elbow to the back of the head. Reality based answer is the sprawl.

Now most reality based arts will drill this until the sprawl comes naturally, the LARPer will have someone come in slow and unrealistic while he postures and makes it look good to the ignorant eye, convincing the naive this would actually work.

Now the reason I distinguish between LARP and reality is that there is a huge difference and someone who is blinded by an agenda is the only ones who don't recongnize this. But the big difference is there are many more LARPers in Kung Fu than in MMA, and until this changes, this attitude will continue.

I'd respectfully disagree with this post. I think that the MMA ruleset dictates the MMA answer. However, I'd consider a quick knee to the head of the incoming attacker would be a more proper real world solution. Most people when discussing MMA overlook a lot of the rules that make certain techniques more effective. In this case, there is a prohibition against kicking a down (he is considered "grounded" due to having a knee on the ground, as is trained in MMA to take advantage of this rule).

Also note that the move "striking downward with the point of the elbow" and also, "striking to the back of the head" is illegal in UFC. (15. (A)(x) and (xi) ). So, I'd disagree that your "reality based solution isn't the elbow to the back of the head-- you CAN'T do that in MMA.

http://www.ufc.com/discover/sport/rules-and-regulations#15 has a list of "fouls". Frankly, I think many of the fouls are some of the bread and butter of TCMA (especially the groin kicks-- anyone who's done a lot of TCMA training has to acknowledge we have a whole lot of groin kicks).
And I'd like to point out that this is how a Kung Fu lawyer argues... actually backing up his arguments with some research.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I'd respectfully disagree with this post. I think that the MMA ruleset dictates the MMA answer. However, I'd consider a quick knee to the head of the incoming attacker would be a more proper real world solution. Most people when discussing MMA overlook a lot of the rules that make certain techniques more effective. In this case, there is a prohibition against kicking a down (he is considered "grounded" due to having a knee on the ground, as is trained in MMA to take advantage of this rule).

Also note that the move "striking downward with the point of the elbow" and also, "striking to the back of the head" is illegal in UFC. (15. (A)(x) and (xi) ). So, I'd disagree that your "reality based solution isn't the elbow to the back of the head-- you CAN'T do that in MMA.

http://www.ufc.com/discover/sport/rules-and-regulations#15 has a list of "fouls". Frankly, I think many of the fouls are some of the bread and butter of TCMA (especially the groin kicks-- anyone who's done a lot of TCMA training has to acknowledge we have a whole lot of groin kicks).
And I'd like to point out that this is how a Kung Fu lawyer argues... actually backing up his arguments with some research.

I think you may be forgetting all the years, decades really, where there were NO RULES and the same techiques and principles STILL came out victorious.
Even in the early UFC's that had rules ( respect the tap and no biting), the results were the same.

[lkfmdc]

I think you may be forgetting all the years, decades really, where there were NO RULES and the same techiques and principles STILL came out victorious.
Even in the early UFC's that had rules ( respect the tap and no biting), the results were the same.

1. Original UFC
2. PRIDE
3. 50+ years in Brazil

4. The MMA events in China now... downward elbows AND kicking the downed opponent, and Beijing BJJ and the san da guys are still the ones winning :D

[Iron_Eagle_76]

LMAO at any idiot who thinks dropping the infamous elbow to the back of the head will stop a top notch wrestler. It always cracks me up the ones with no grappling experience because they think the shoot comes from 10 feet away, in slow motion, and one can easily see it coming.

Please try and apply that technique to this, see where it gets you.:rolleyes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEhfPlswZI0

[Darthlawyer]

Personally, I have more experience in wrestling (as my high school had an excellent wrestling program) than in MA. I do concede that the back of the head would be a poor choice of target against someone who actually knows what they are doing in wrestling (Personally, I'd suggest a shot to the clavicle--while prepared to sprawl).
Further, I'd concede that the majority of "Kung Fu" players (at least in the US) would be completely unable to compete physically with most BJJ or "MMA" style fighters. However, I'd attribute this to matters not dealing with the effectiveness of the techniques, but rather problems with the general culture of American Kung Fu students.
I believe few American Kung Fu students study it to be able to fight competitively. I mean, most people's exposure to "Kung Fu" or "TCMA" (really, pretend traditional arts) is in movies, where they see Wu Shu. So, Kung Fu is filled with people who want to learn flashy moves, and who play make believe that they can beat someone who actually trains hard, really hard, to FIGHT. As a result, you get people who don't train the grappling aspects of TCMA (Monkey style has some techniques in the forms I've learned that are mirror images of many wrestling techniques-- controlling the head with forearm, keeping the arms to the inside for control in a front grapple--etc). In China, you get a similar effect from the popularity of Wu Shu forms only training.

My only point is that there are some illusions created by ignorance of some of the rules in MMA which prevent an accurate presentation as to whether or not a certain style of fighting could work in a "real fight". BJJ and similar arts have an advantage in most MMA rule sets, because their rules for sparring are closer to the rules of an MMA contest.

It would be like taking a BJJ into a boxing match and claiming that boxing is a better art once the boxer won. The only difference is that there is an illusion of a lack of rules in the "cage".

At the end of any fight, a fighter who is better conditioned, has the best strength training, the best nutrition, and generally takes the fighting aspect of his art more seriously than his opponent would (more likely than not) win in a real fight,regardless of style. I'd bet that if you took someone who studied MMA/wrestling/BJJ, but only in an American Kung Fu style: two day a week, no conditioning, no competitive sparring, and put him up against a "top notch" western boxer, the boxer would win 10 out of 10 times. Would this mean that double leg takedowns don't work? Of course not.

[sanjuro_ronin]

And how do you explain the lack of effectiveness VS BJJ when there were NO rules?

[Darthlawyer]

The guys using kung fu in early UFC sucked, and Gracie used steroids.

[sanjuro_ronin]

The guys using kung fu in early UFC sucked, and Gracie used steroids.

LMAO !!
Best answer ever !
:D

[lkfmdc]

The guys using kung fu in early UFC sucked, and Gracie used steroids.

Royce Gracie UFC 1

http://www.ftwbrazilianjiujitsu.com/WebImages/RoyceUFC/royceufc1.gif

he needed to get a refund from that dealer!

[sanjuro_ronin]

Royce Gracie UFC 1

http://www.ftwbrazilianjiujitsu.com/WebImages/RoyceUFC/royceufc1.gif

he needed to get a refund from that dealer!

Considering that Royce wasn't even the "top" Gracie at the time, that makes it even worse, LOL !

[donjitsu2]

... and Gracie used steroids.


1) Prove that Royce used during the early UFC's (that is prior to 2007)

2) So, what:

http://www.ken-shamrock.com/images/ken-shamrock1.jpg

[Lucas]

1. Original UFC
2. PRIDE
3. 50+ years in Brazil

4. The MMA events in China now... downward elbows AND kicking the downed opponent, and Beijing BJJ and the san da guys are still the ones winning :D

the china mma allows downward elbow and kicking downed opponent?

[sanjuro_ronin]

the china mma allows downward elbow and kicking downed opponent?

I did a Vale Tudo event in Quebec once that the only rule was no biting because some guys with no teeth found it unfair !!

[Lucas]

i did a vale tudo event in quebec once that the only rule was no biting because some guys with no teeth found it unfair !!

lol!!!!!!!

[sanjuro_ronin]

lol!!!!!!!

In all fairness it was on an indian reservation so...

[donjitsu2]

I did a Vale Tudo event in Quebec once that the only rule was no biting because some guys with no teeth found it unfair !!

It is unfair.

Biting is a "bread and butter" technique from Traditional Canadian Martial Arts (the other TCMA).

[Lucas]

In all fairness it was on an indian reservation so...

hehe...sure would suck to get gummed into submission :eek:

eww soggy

[sanjuro_ronin]

It is unfair.

Biting is a "bread and butter" technique from Traditional Canadian Martial Arts.

Home of our national animal, the much sought after Bald Beaver.

[lkfmdc]

the china mma allows downward elbow and kicking downed opponent?

sure does

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofgCB95ONzA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlEAcOWskPE

[sanjuro_ronin]

hehe...sure would suck to get gummed into submission :eek:

eww soggy

Which reminds me of this women that used to come around one of the clubs I bounced at...*shudders*...

[Lucas]

bald beaver is my favorite dish!

[lkfmdc]

the china mma allows downward elbow and kicking downed opponent?

sure does, tons of kicking the downed guy in these clips

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofgCB95ONzA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlEAcOWskPE

[Lucas]

Which reminds me of this women that used to come around one of the clubs I bounced at...*shudders*...

Omg!!! from your shudder i'll guess you never went there...but someone must have :eek:

[sanjuro_ronin]

Omg!!! from your shudder i'll guess you never went there...but someone must have :eek:

The horror....
I don't think he dated for a year after that !!

[Lucas]

sure does, tons of kicking the downed guy in these clips

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofgCB95ONzA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlEAcOWskPE

wow nice. that first kick to the downed guy nailed him, rocked him, turned and turned him..good stuff. i didnt know that, thanks for sharing. shows its definately viable

[donjitsu2]

Home of our national animal, the much sought after Bald Beaver.


I promised my father I would never use Bald Beaver style again.

[Lucas]

The horror....
I don't think he dated for a year after that !!

wow lol poor fella

[Lucas]

im going to have to watch more of those art of war fights. those highlight reels have some exciting looking matches

[Lucas]

oh man tha tone fight that guy is just whailing on dude with roundhouses and even once stomps him while hes down. awesome ****!!

[sanjuro_ronin]

sure does, tons of kicking the downed guy in these clips

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofgCB95ONzA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlEAcOWskPE

Good stuff, fine holiday fun for the whole family !
Especially that ass uncle Phil...

[lkfmdc]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yB3imGN3qBo&feature=related

another one