nei kung and 100 day's with no sex....

[aussie1981]

Any one got any theories as to why this is done in some school's?? we don't do it in the Yang Mian style but I know closed door Wu tai chi does the 100 day thing and when the Choy Lay Fut guy's were training with Master Zhou from Sydney he had them do it.

What practical use does it have other than building up Testosterone and making for sexually frustrated students???

[YouKnowWho]

Staying away from sex has nothing to do with Nei Kung training. It has to do with general TCMA training.

A: Since yesterday was D's wedding, he must be tired from last night.
B: I bet you that he won't dare to come to school in the next 3 days.
C: If he comes, he doesn't need to wrestle, he will have soft legs even when he stands.
A: If he comes, I'll wrestle with him. It will be just like to wrestle against a kid.
B: We should not take advantage on old, "weak", sick, and disable.
C: Don't worry about. I'll take easy on him.
A: D, You look so skinny today ...
D: :mad:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xe3V1nydeC0

Even in the western culture, people also believe that sex will make you weak. In the movie "Little Big Man" that after Dustin Hoffman had sex with his wife's three widowed sisters, he was so tired that he could barely crawl back to his bed.

At 12.29.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4pwwp_little-big-man-partie-69-1970_shortfilms

[rett]

What practical use does it have other than building up Testosterone and making for sexually frustrated students???

You don't have to wear flip-flops in the shower?

[donjitsu2]

What practical use does it have other than building up Testosterone and making for sexually frustrated students???

Long term abstinence from ejaculation does not seem to produce increases in Testosterone levels in the body:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12659241


If you abstain for a week you will see a sudden spike on day 7. However, after that things go back to normal.

There have been studies on mice that suggest the more often one ejaculates the higher their testosterone levels may be - both base levels and post ejaculation.

The "less experienced" mice had lower testosterone at base levels and post ejaculation levels.

I think the benefit might be in terms of gaining more focus: If you testosterone levels are low you are thinking about girls less, which (most likely) means you're training more.

Though, Testosterone is an important hormone for performance (in the bed and in a fight) so I wouldn't want to do anything to intentionally lower it.


Train Hard,

Josh Skinner

[SPJ]

there is no sex frustration

there is only sex tension or pressure building up over time.

the theory

if you preserve your jing, you may become more vital and strong.

if you have too much sex, your jing is depleted. you may be tired and weak.

or become a soft leg crab or shrimp

you know crab and shrimp are good and intense fighters

but soft legs and soft clamps/claws are like useless.

thus the slang

nuan jiao xie or nuan jiao xia.

you may not stand let alone fight.

:eek:

[Hendrik]

This is real Neigong deal by any standard.



内功之传，脉络甚真，不知脉络，勉强用之，则无益而有损。

卷一内功篇


学医道者，不可不明乎经络，何况习内功乎？若不明脉络，犹习射而操弓矢，其不能也决矣。能内景 遂道，返观而 以察之，则体用兼备矣。

前任后督，气行滚滚，井池双穴，发劲循循。气纳丹田，冲起命门，引督脉过尾闾，由脊中直上泥丸 ，下人中龈交 ，追动性元，引任脉降重楼，而下返气海。两脉上下，旋转如园，前降后升，络绎不绝也。井者，足 少阳胆经，肩 上陷中之肩井穴也。池者，手阳明大肠经，屈时横纹头陷中之曲池穴也。大肠经所入合土，土生金， 手足少阳，足 阳明，阳维之会，连入五脏，周身发劲之所也。

龟尾升气，丹田炼神，气下于海，光聚天心。龟尾者，长强穴也。谷道轻提，真气自然上升矣。丹田 者，冲脉（上 起百会，下达会阴），带脉（腰一周之脉）之中，脐下内部也。为男子精室，女子胞宫所在，调整呼 吸，固精健肾 ，练神之所也。小腹正中为气海，额上正中为天心，之气充于内，形光于外也。

既明脉络，次观格式。格式者，入门一定之规也。不明此，即脉络亦空谈耳。

[sanjuro_ronin]

Old master that can't get it up anymore is ****ed off with his younger students getting laid- creates 100 day ban on sex to ****ed them off and feel better about himself.

Case closed.

[Taixuquan99]

Abstinence in some cases in Chinese practices is not abstinence from sexual activity, but from losing jing.

If you can retain jing and have sex every day, good on you...

[sanjuro_ronin]

Abstinence in some cases in Chinese practices is not abstinence from sexual activity, but from losing jing.

If you can retain jing and have sex every day, good on you...

There's the understatement of the day !

[Taixuquan99]

Long term abstinence from ejaculation does not seem to produce increases in Testosterone levels in the body:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12659241


If you abstain for a week you will see a sudden spike on day 7. However, after that things go back to normal.

There have been studies on mice that suggest the more often one ejaculates the higher their testosterone levels may be - both base levels and post ejaculation.

The "less experienced" mice had lower testosterone at base levels and post ejaculation levels.

I think the benefit might be in terms of gaining more focus: If you testosterone levels are low you are thinking about girls less, which (most likely) means you're training more.

Though, Testosterone is an important hormone for performance (in the bed and in a fight) so I wouldn't want to do anything to intentionally lower it.


Train Hard,

Josh Skinner

The question I always have with that study, and maybe I'm missing where it covers this, is how much sexual activity is occurring during the abstinence from ejaculation, since the common approach in China was to abstain to have more sex, likely a result of polygyny, where it was common to need to schedule one's sex, Monday with wife one, Tuesday with wife two, etc.

As is, applying that study to Chinese abstinence practices is really applying Western ideas of sexual abstinence to Chinese ideas, which is apples to lemons, in this case.

[SPJ]

there is another practice

actually by having a lot of sex

and receiving lots of yin to replenish your yang.

and yes as pointed out without losing your jing first.

:eek:

[Taixuquan99]

there is another practice

actually by having a lot of sex

and receiving lots of yin to replenish your yang.

and yes as pointed out without losing your jing first.

:eek:

Exactly. Abstinence without sexual practice, by that path's standards, is better than wasting jing, but not better for virility.

[aussie1981]

Hendrik, is there a way of translating that at all? :cool:

[TenTigers]

I dunno..I went 15 years without sex, didn't make me any stronger.

[SPJ]

you do need sex

so that you are complete or balanced.

but you do need to restrain somewhat, so that you are all "concentrated" in body and mind/emotions for whatever you are doing.


:)

[SPJ]

in addition

sometimes, you need to eat certain foods and avoid other

you need to do certain activity or chores

so as to complete or ready your body for your gong.

:eek:

[aussie1981]

What do you mean by chores? the only thing we really do before it is circulatory exercises which also strengthen tendones and ligaments and puts pressure down into the arms and hands.

What sought of foods would you keep waway from? master Zhou had the BSCLF guy's abstaine from caffeine and spicy food aswell as sex when doing his kung.

[Hendrik]

Here is a brief brief translation so our western friends can know such reference exist in a holistic style in China.


内功经
Neigong classic



内功之传，脉络甚真，不知脉络，勉强用之，则无益而有损。
The transmission of Neigong, one needs to know the medirians of Qi flow properly. Not knowing the medirians of Qi; brute force/ forcefully / not accord to the medirians handling the issue. There will be no benifit but damage.






卷一内功篇
Scroll one, the Neigong chapter.




学医道者，不可不明乎经络，何况习内功乎？
Those who study chinese medicine must know Qi flow medirians, for those who practice Neigong even needed.


若不明脉络，犹习射而操弓矢，其不能也决矣。
If there is no understanding in medirians, that is like learning how to shoot arrow without knowing the handing of bow. one has no direction.


能内景遂道，返观而 以察之，则体用兼备矣。
capable of knowing the inner path ways, one watches it and examine it, only in that way the " body " and " its applications" are holistic/complete mastered.



前任后督，气行滚滚....

Ren medirian in front and Du medirian at the back, Zhen Qi flow strongly....

[SPJ]

What do you mean by chores? the only thing we really do before it is circulatory exercises which also strengthen tendones and ligaments and puts pressure down into the arms and hands.

What sought of foods would you keep waway from? master Zhou had the BSCLF guy's abstaine from caffeine and spicy food aswell as sex when doing his kung.

depending what you try to accomplish

each gong method has different prerequisite or requirement.

usually we need drilling of a certain move. it is increased in intensity over time. thus boring, I consider them chores.

for example, in tong bei

there is this relaxation of the wrist joint or fo wan gong.

there are so many drills that needed to be repeated

1. bending back as far as you can, relax, repeat

2. bending forward as far as you can, relax, repeat

3. shaking up and down relax, repeat (shuai shou)

4. swirling clockwise 25 times, relax and repeat

5. swirling counterclockwise 25 times, relax and repeat

on and on

the whole session can be a few minutes to 45 minutes or longer.

over time

you increase the intensity and even adding weights/rings around the wrist

or grabbing a weighted ball or bar,

--

do you think that all this chores or not chores

--

[Hendrik]

What do you mean by chores? the only thing we really do before it is circulatory exercises which also strengthen tendones and ligaments and puts pressure down into the arms and hands.

What sought of foods would you keep waway from? master Zhou had the BSCLF guy's abstaine from caffeine and spicy food aswell as sex when doing his kung.



follow Zhou's instruction, that is proper path.

soft drink , caffiene, spicy food, and sex has big time impact on nervous system.

the first step of Neigong is Settle the mind and emotion, proper diet and avoid extreme emotion such as anger and sex or rage is very important.


Otherwise, one starts practice with a choas mind and emotion or internal stress/excitation that end up one will not be able to handle the qi flow and body but imbalance.


So the training will amplify the problem if things are not settle before training, that lead one to side track and lost control instead of balance.

depend on the health condition, that imbalance cause damage. for those who is less healthy, one needs to seriously pay attention.

the whole deal is to let the body- mind to settle and balance itself. training without the platform settle and balance is suicide.

[rett]

soft drink , caffiene, spicy food, and sex has big time impact on nervous system.

So you mean no tea?

[Hendrik]

So you mean no tea?


no strong tea.


it also depend on how is your body condition and how heavy the training.

[rett]

no strong tea.

it also depend on how is your body condition and how heavy the training.

So a little bit of soft drink or tea or coffee is okay, as long as you pay attention to how you feel and make sure it's not harming your training?

[Hendrik]

So a little bit of soft drink or tea or coffee is okay, as long as you pay attention to how you feel and make sure it's not harming your training?


ya.

in general, make sure 1hour before and after the training not having it and no cold drink. so that you dont shock your system. Body takes times to dissolve and settle.

Think of it as how to handle a chemical system that will give you a good way to handle this. Dont need to get mysterious or too concern. it is all common sense.

Sex is draining kidney, kidney got to do with lots of stuffs and bone, so to abstain that 100 days is to strengthen the bone too.

So, for those serious practioner who did 4 hours per day, those are the one needs very careful care. and most of us are not in that catagory. but it is better to watch out.

usually, no Qigong/ meditation 6 hours before and after sex. that is to let the body settle after the draining.

[aussie1981]

SPJ I would most definately consider them chores:eek:

I can see how soft drink would effect it but i'm a fan of spicy food, it's cool to see how other people train it. All this isn't needed for the power we train in Yang Mian, it's a paradox. Sex and alcohol make it feel better as your bodies looser and able to relax deeper. Wheras the Wu style guy's say there's doesn't feel as good. There main nei kung is posture based where ours is moving and dynamic as well as posture exercises.

[Hendrik]

SPJ I would most definately consider them chores:eek:

I can see how soft drink would effect it but i'm a fan of spicy food, it's cool to see how other people train it.

All this isn't needed for the power we train in Yang Mian, it's a paradox. Sex and alcohol make it feel better as your bodies looser and able to relax deeper.

Wheras the Wu style guy's say there's doesn't feel as good. There main nei kung is posture based where ours is moving and dynamic as well as posture exercises.



Spicy food effect on lung and Heart functions, if I remember correctly.

CLF has lots of internal Gong.

TCMA which doesnt taking care of sex and diet and alcohol are hard style fighting art which will cause internal organs injury at old age in general.


all Chinese internal art starts with Shao Lin's Yijining to Taiji gong......etc which has healing and curing ability are all Sex, diet, alcohol, emotion abstaint type.

[aussie1981]

The blood and oxygen are what carries it around the body, hence we call it internal presure. Not sure iff alcohol and the rest really effect it that much, the body is more than equiped to get rid of these thing's.

The start of the training is very differnt from clf, no stances or forms. Just power building exercises and exercises to move that pressure around. The body has to go from relaxed to switched on full of pressure in an instant, a bit like blocking your nose when sneezing. No hard muscle power used.

[aussie1981]

What style do you train Hendrik? do you do the 8 brocades or 18 lohan or anything similar?

[Hendrik]

What style do you train Hendrik? do you do the 8 brocades or 18 lohan or anything similar?

I train in many different styles. Going beyond 8 brocades... etc

[Scott R. Brown]

The best way to get rid of thoughts and the need of sex, is to have sex.

The point, as with all things, is to not overdo it. Not having something your body needs is as much a distraction as over-zealous pursuit of these things.

The body has a biological need for sex. This is normal and the way the body was designed. The body's need for sex is no different than the need for food, air, and water in that they are all natural bodily needs. They all serve a useful purpose, when not taken to extremes. The only dfference is you can live without sex, but not without food, water or air.

It is best to practice balance in all things!

[donjitsu2]

It is best to practice balance in all things!

I married a red-head. She won't leave me alone.

Now I can never become a Taoist Master. :(

[TenTigers]

they say the average man thinks about sex several times a day.
How does that calm you down?
perhaps if you thought about sex with your Aunt Martha....?

[donjitsu2]

they say the average man thinks about sex several times a day.
How does that calm you down?
perhaps if you thought about sex with your Aunt Martha....?

jeez! I'm sending a PM to David Jamieson for that one.






(jk)

[SPJ]

they say the average man thinks about sex several times a day.
How does that calm you down?
perhaps if you thought about sex with your Aunt Martha....?

take a shower,

do some physical activity

take your mind away by doing something else. looking at pictures of ugly or oversize opposite sex, whatever turn you off.

2 times a week is the norm.

several times a day would be too much.

--

:eek:

[TenTigers]

2 times a week is the norm.


:eek:

yeah..? I guess I'll slow down when I'm older....

[Scott R. Brown]

I married a red-head. She won't leave me alone.

Now I can never become a Taoist Master. :(

Performing sexually and needing sex are two different things! Of course you can become a Taoist Master!:D

[SPJ]

sleep well or rest well

we may go on without sex for 100 days or many days

but we need our sleep.

we may no go on much without sleep for 3 days etc

:eek:

[scholar]

I was an indoor student of the Wu Jianquan family for 13 years, until Wu Daxin passed away in 2005. There was not a single mention of abstinence from anything as a requirement for neigong. Instead, I was told that if I trained well there would always be a surfeit of energy for whatever until the day I died. If you generate bad karma with perverted sex you get diseases, but healthy, normal activity there is nothing to worry about. As far as I know, this is taught by all orthodox Taijiquan styles. I was told "We don't give up our lives to do Taijiquan, we do Taijiquan so that we can live our lives more fully." Everybody is different, though. If it is your destiny to live without sex, then so be it.

[xinyidizi]

My teacher told me about abstinence a few years ago but I didn’t take it seriously and just reduced it to once a week. However my teacher could easily tell that I hadn’t obeyed. That way I had some progress in qigong but my meridians seemed like empty rivers and my pulse wasn’t strong enough. Last year I finally decided to limit having sex to once every 2 or 3 months and now I can feel a big change in my pulse and meridians. Personally I think the more open my meridians get the less I crave sex as it is getting easier to move the energy to other parts of my body. Having said that I think sex is also a very good tool for opening up the meridians as long as it is just a few times a years.

[Scott R. Brown]

If sex is not missed, then it is not abstinence and there is no problem.

If one misses sex, then it is possible one is not attending to their own unique nature and attempting to force an artificial system upon their own nature which creates a conflict that makes finding balance more difficult.

As with all things balance within a naturally occurring continuum is generally most beneficial.

[Scott R. Brown]

It is an important principle to remember, what constitutes balance is different for each person.

[scholar]

If sex is not missed, then it is not abstinence and there is no problem.
...
As with all things balance within a naturally occurring continuum is generally most beneficial.

I've met apparently well adjusted people who have no interest in sex, and I believe just as you say that it isn't abstinence if it isn't missed. A person's individual spirit will manifest in a unique way if it is listened to, for sure. If a person tries to force a condition that is contrary to what their spirit is naturally comfortable with, there will likely be problems.

I like Taijiquan just because that training over the course of years gives us access to large amounts of our own energy, over and over again. It is our energy, no one else's. If we let it work on us with as little interference as possible it will, in conjunction with the traditional syllabus, eventually, naturally, teach us things about ourselves and how we fit in the scheme of things. I'm not the same person as any of my instructors, and none of my students are in the same spiritual place as me. Not better or worse, different. The training I was shown could be considered dry and technical, not much entertainment value, but deliberately neutral so that everyone who trains it has a known baseline to proceed from.

[KnowledgeSeeker]

My understanding of the 100 days is that your essence (jing) is transformed into Qi. Later Qi is transformed into shen. If you deplete your essence you lose the vital building block that starts the entire process.

I began pondering this several years ago myself. I began studying male multiple orgasm. In my own experience, Lovemaking lasted for up to 6 hours with many many full body orgasms...each one getting better than the last. Ejaculation was omitted entirely, or at least preserved for the end of the session. Orgasm(s) were powerful and seemed to intensify with each round (circulation).

The key was to not lose ejaculate (essence) and to recirculate the sexual energy through a specific path. All too often with men, ejaculation and orgasm are considered the same thing, but they are two separate occurrences that usually happen simultaneously without training.

Even during extended sessions, my energy reserves grew tremendously during sexual intercourse, instead of having weak legs or feeling depleted. Sex at that point became a dynamic internal energy booster.

Lets face it guys, its not the tactile sensation of having semen pass through your urethra that you are after, it's the intense energy and the release of the orgasm that makes sex so inviting.

Separate the two and you will see a whole new world open to your martial/spiritual training and your physical relationships.

I hope this helps.

-Lee

[xinyidizi]

Separate the two and you will see a whole new world open to your martial/spiritual training and your physical relationships.

It would be more helpful if you could explain your method in more detail.

[David Jamieson]

The replenishment of sperm in totality takes about 80 days in men.

true story.

[Scott R. Brown]

My understanding of the 100 days is that your essence (jing) is transformed into Qi. Later Qi is transformed into shen. If you deplete your essence you lose the vital building block that starts the entire process.

I began pondering this several years ago myself. I began studying male multiple orgasm. In my own experience, Lovemaking lasted for up to 6 hours with many many full body orgasms...each one getting better than the last. Ejaculation was omitted entirely, or at least preserved for the end of the session. Orgasm(s) were powerful and seemed to intensify with each round (circulation).

The key was to not lose ejaculate (essence) and to recirculate the sexual energy through a specific path. All too often with men, ejaculation and orgasm are considered the same thing, but they are two separate occurrences that usually happen simultaneously without training.

Even during extended sessions, my energy reserves grew tremendously during sexual intercourse, instead of having weak legs or feeling depleted. Sex at that point became a dynamic internal energy booster.

Lets face it guys, its not the tactile sensation of having semen pass through your urethra that you are after, it's the intense energy and the release of the orgasm that makes sex so inviting.

Separate the two and you will see a whole new world open to your martial/spiritual training and your physical relationships.

I hope this helps.

-Lee

Except that all of this is also possible without practicing qigong and WITH sexual release. Not to mention that the noted Philosophical Taoist Liu I-ming, wrote extensively that essence transformation is merely metaphorical and not to be take literally. Something I concluded previous to my discovery of his writings as well.

Not that I am trying to convince anyone not to practice something they find fulfillment from, only that it isn't all that special in reality. You get what you expect to get whether it is qigong or something else. In the end, it is all manifested by your attitude of mind.

[scholar]

I spoke up because earlier in this thread there was mention that there was a 100 day neigong method associated with indoor Wu style. IME, there isn't. They didn't concentrate on that stuff at all. If Wu style people are teaching it, they very likely brought it in from somewhere else, I'm guessing. There is indoor neigong, and there is some joking ribaldry in the terminology, but nothing like what has been described above. I've only been taught Wu style, so all my observations are style-specific. The approach is very natural, Wu Gongzao mentioned several times in his writing that if you focus on circulating qi with your mind it will have unhappy effects. The shen/jing/qi transformations happen anyway, but are amplified by the training naturally. The focus was on training thoroughly for many years to have enough spontaneous energy at your disposal to be able to fight on the battlefield for extended periods of time, a huge expenditure of energy. Any benefit to stamina in other areas is secondary. If we put viagra out of business with Taijiquan, all the better, but that's not the intent...

[Scott R. Brown]

I spoke up because earlier in this thread there was mention that there was a 100 day neigong method associated with indoor Wu style. IME, there isn't. They didn't concentrate on that stuff at all. If Wu style people are teaching it, they very likely brought it in from somewhere else, I'm guessing. There is indoor neigong, and there is some joking ribaldry in the terminology, but nothing like what has been described above. I've only been taught Wu style, so all my observations are style-specific. The approach is very natural, Wu Gongzao mentioned several times in his writing that if you focus on circulating qi with your mind it will have unhappy effects. The shen/jing/qi transformations happen anyway, but are amplified by the training naturally. The focus was on training thoroughly for many years to have enough spontaneous energy at your disposal to be able to fight on the battlefield for extended periods of time, a huge expenditure of energy. Any benefit to stamina in other areas is secondary. If we put viagra out of business with Taijiquan, all the better, but that's not the intent...

I agree with nearly all of this perspective.

Qi blockage occurs due to interference, it will balance itself upon the cessation of interference. But it is important that the method we use to help us learn to stop interfering with our system's natural function does not add to the blockage through erroneous attitudes and thoughts.

To me it isn't the practice of qigong that necessarily may lead to problems, but erroneous philosophical principles that motivate the exercises some schools practice!

[scholar]

On that theme, one the principles taught is that if you're training well, your mind will be kept completely occupied just so that it won't be able to interfere with your natural development. Instructors are expected to watch for the beginnings of speculative murmurings. If students are theorizing, they aren't busy enough! This is seen as something the teacher is responsible for avoiding, at least in the early stages. Direct technical questions are OK, flights of fantasy are discouraged.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I spoke up because earlier in this thread there was mention that there was a 100 day neigong method associated with indoor Wu style. IME, there isn't. They didn't concentrate on that stuff at all. If Wu style people are teaching it, they very likely brought it in from somewhere else, I'm guessing. There is indoor neigong, and there is some joking ribaldry in the terminology, but nothing like what has been described above. I've only been taught Wu style, so all my observations are style-specific. The approach is very natural, Wu Gongzao mentioned several times in his writing that if you focus on circulating qi with your mind it will have unhappy effects. The shen/jing/qi transformations happen anyway, but are amplified by the training naturally. The focus was on training thoroughly for many years to have enough spontaneous energy at your disposal to be able to fight on the battlefield for extended periods of time, a huge expenditure of energy. Any benefit to stamina in other areas is secondary. If we put viagra out of business with Taijiquan, all the better, but that's not the intent...

Great post and I wouldn't worry about putting viagra out of business, when a man boasts about "6 hours of sex" he is going by his "man watch" which when translated works like this:
6 hrs in deluded man = 10 min in real time = 5 min in woman time.
:D

[scholar]

It takes a lot of dedicated energy to pull off 6 hours of begging for 10 minutes of sex! :o

[xinyidizi]

@scholar: Do you practice opening up the meridians in Wu style?

[Scott R. Brown]

On that theme, one the principles taught is that if you're training well, your mind will be kept completely occupied just so that it won't be able to interfere with your natural development. Instructors are expected to watch for the beginnings of speculative murmurings. If students are theorizing, they aren't busy enough! This is seen as something the teacher is responsible for avoiding, at least in the early stages. Direct technical questions are OK, flights of fantasy are discouraged.

Yours appears to be one of the most reasonable methods of qigong I have ever come across.

One that actually follows principles of Tao, as opposed to the ones that seem to make up principles or distort principles in order to support bizarre and less productive forms of practice.


It takes a lot of dedicated energy to pull off 6 hours of begging for 10 minutes of sex! :o

Some might consider it a complete waste of energy, and time. Even the bragging rights gained make one appear more sick than healthy!

[scholar]

@scholar: Do you practice opening up the meridians in Wu style?

Well, yes and no. Indirectly, I'd say. The training is designed to, but first you have to get the training system down very well to ensure consistency of a balanced result. The doctrine is your body already knows what to do, and will balance and open itself in time if you just train according to the advice of the teachers who have walked down the path you're interested in before you. It's entirely voluntary, though. The student has to be interested enough to see the value, if any, in the end result demonstrated by the teachers.

Traditionally, hung up on the walls in a Wu style school was a quote from one of the classics:

入門引路須口授
功夫無息法自修

Rù mén yǐn lù xū kǒu shǒu
Gōngfu wú xī fǎ zì xiū

Roughly: "The students come to class and hear the instruction, but won't develop real skill until they learn to work it through themselves."

There are specific exercises for specific meridian groups, but that isn't how they are presented. Like I was saying with Scott Brown, it is presented as a set of technical requirements, very precisely, just so that focus will serve to prevent distractions that may interfere with the result desired.

Wu Gongzao wrote about pushing hands, but this also applies to the neigong:

"There are three levels of skill in pushing hands: non-awareness, awareness after the fact, and awareness before the fact."

At first, students feel little or no result from the neigong, then after a while they start to feel better after the training, noticeably and consistently. The more advanced stage is that the body eventually starts opening up and feeling better if you just think about training. Quite a timesaver!

[scholar]

Yours appears to be one of the most reasonable methods of qigong I have ever come across.

One that actually follows principles of Tao, as opposed to the ones that seem to make up principles or distort principles in order to support bizarre and less productive forms of practice.

The approach is very Taoist in focus. The teachers I studied with used to say "Taijiquan is Taoism." Wu Gongzao's writings are crowded with quotes from the Taoist literature to illustrate his points. I've been choring through the Gold Book in Chinese, and one of the more difficult things for my limited skill is picking up on when he's quoting someone or saying something new himself. But still, the focus is on natural development (aided by the training, though) and especially softness in the neutralization.


Some might consider it a complete waste of energy, and time. Even the bragging rights gained make one appear more sick than healthy!

I'm old now, but I still remember life as a teenager! :D

[xiao yao]

I was just told by my teacher to not train kung fu for 2 days after sex, but he never mentioned 100 days

[Scott R. Brown]

I was just told by my teacher to not train kung fu for 2 days after sex, but he never mentioned 100 days

That is still unnecessary.

[taai gihk yahn]

u also have to remember the context of the times: prevention was a paramount component before the advent of medicines like antibiotics - the sort of upper respiratory infection that we don't even pay much attention to now would have been life-threatening 200 yrs ago; meaning that, if u got a little run down in any capacity, it cud b a quick, one way descent into something serious, especially given the poor public health conditions vis a vis sanitation, infection ctrl, etc.; so it's not a huge jump to think that some might have related the post- orgasmic coital period to a depletion state that could lead to illness, and to b avoided as such;

also, think about it - what sort of STD's were running around and how were they understood / prevented? even w monogamy u cud'nt b sure ur partner was doing the same, so abstinence was one sure way of preventing that;

and what about social taboos around self-gratification in general? many cultures look down on it - in the west, we are told it's morally wrong; in other areas, it cud b proscribed bec it is unhealthy as a ways of inforcing a subtext of morality...


point is, that i think there r a lot of less obvious factors behind the whole retention thing - what we might get passed down as a straight-forward recommendation may hav been influenced and colored by many things over the years...

[kfson]

I had to and am still tested at times. It is required to help alchemically dissolve internal barriers. The ecstasy can open spiritual doors but you don't want to be governed by the urge, especially if someone can force that urge, remotely, into your mind.

[Shadow_warrior8]

This is real Neigong deal by any standard.



内功之传，脉络甚真，不知脉络，勉强用之，则无益而有损。

卷一内功篇


学医道者，不可不明乎经络，何况习内功乎？若不明脉络，犹习射而操弓矢，其不能也决矣。能内景 遂道，返观而 以察之，则体用兼备矣。

前任后督，气行滚滚，井池双穴，发劲循循。气纳丹田，冲起命门，引督脉过尾闾，由脊中直上泥丸 ，下人中龈交 ，追动性元，引任脉降重楼，而下返气海。两脉上下，旋转如园，前降后升，络绎不绝也。井者，足 少阳胆经，肩 上陷中之肩井穴也。池者，手阳明大肠经，屈时横纹头陷中之曲池穴也。大肠经所入合土，土生金， 手足少阳，足 阳明，阳维之会，连入五脏，周身发劲之所也。

龟尾升气，丹田炼神，气下于海，光聚天心。龟尾者，长强穴也。谷道轻提，真气自然上升矣。丹田 者，冲脉（上 起百会，下达会阴），带脉（腰一周之脉）之中，脐下内部也。为男子精室，女子胞宫所在，调整呼 吸，固精健肾 ，练神之所也。小腹正中为气海，额上正中为天心，之气充于内，形光于外也。

既明脉络，次观格式。格式者，入门一定之规也。不明此，即脉络亦空谈耳。

thank you senior

yes I agree this is true in my neigong practice