Over compinsating lack of skill with strength

[ginosifu]

Recently I have been trying to get back into shape and doing a lot of Pull ups / Push Ups and strength building exercises. I was just wondering in this modern world we have a lot more technical information about muscle / strength building and better ways to get stronger that people did years ago. We have more information about diet and building bigger and stronger muscle thru proper eating etc etc.

Have we traded skill for strength? What I mean is: Instead of sparring / drilling 5 or 6 days a week maybe we have cut that down to 2 or 3 and the others days strength building. When I was in high school wrestling I remember hearing one of the coaches say: "If you wanna be good at Running.... then Run, If you wanna be good at Lifting.... then Lift, If you wanna be good at wrestling.... then wrestle."


As Gene and I discussed, 30 years ago kung fu was still at least about fighting

I remember Kung Fu class was always about fighting and some Lin Gung (strength training) but we always fought more.

Have we started on a path of "If I am bigger and stronger than him I can just pound him more instead of becoming more skillful than he is?

ginosifu

[Kansuke]

Did your coach also tell you that all other things being equal, the guy who put in more time on the road and on the weights - in addition to time on the mat - was likely to come out ahead?

[TenTigers]

lien kuen without lien gung is just an empty shell.
I know practitioners who did a lot of lien gung-developmental training before learning technique. Their skill is unmatched.

[JamesC]

If you have two opponents that are equal in skill, the stronger will usually win.

Old school guys have known this forever too. For instance:

Mas Oyama
http://ejmas.com/jalt/sakata/MasOyama.jpg

Chiu Chi Ling
http://www.tigredoro.org/immagini/chiuchilingmain.jpg

The Great Gama
http://ejmas.com/jalt/roller/GreatGama.jpg

[lkfmdc]

Proper Preparation Precludes Poor Performance - wrestling saying

Conditioning is the best submission - Karl Gotch

The more you sweat the less you bleed - boxing saying

There is a reason every single professional sports team has a strength and conditioning squad. pro fighters included

[ginosifu]

Did your coach also tell you that all other things being equal, the guy who put in more time on the road and on the weights - in addition to time on the mat - was likely to come out ahead?

I always have cross trained but more on the lines of 70% Fighting and Fighting drills and the other 30% split between Strength building / Running / Stretching etc etc.

Have we changed the 70% rule to:

30% Fighting and Fighting drills
70% Strength / Conditioning

ginosifu

[lkfmdc]

an hour of pure conditioning

two hours of technique work

one hour of technique based conditioning

do the math

[sanjuro_ronin]

All the skill in the world can't help you if you can't apply that skill and application comes from you body being ABLE to do your skillset.
Strength is crucial for EVERYTHING we do, even everyday activities, it make sense that it would be crucial for MA.
HOW crucial is another matter.
You need a balance of 1/3 skill, 1/3 strength and 1/3 speed, all together that egual correct conditoning for your chosen activity.

[Kansuke]

Calculating percentages and such will just lead to hair-splitting and pointless speculation, but it is particularly the case in wrestling that the importance of conditioning cannot be overstated. Money in the bank.

[TenTigers]

there was an expression in Fukien Bak Hok, later used in Okinawan Goju;
"Three years saamjien (sanchin)"
These guys did nothing but Sanchin, Hojo Undo (jars, rings, weights, stones, makiwara, etc) for the first three years of training before learning other techniques.
And they were beasts.
I have a book of boxing workouts of top fighters. I would say at least 70% was conditioning.

That being said, do people compensate for lack of technique with strength? Beginners certainly do.
That is why the expression, "Beginners should not use strength" exists.
Funny-half the people overcompensate with strength, the other half doesn't want to put in the time for developmental training and just want to hit.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Calculating percentages and such will just lead to hair-splitting and pointless speculation, but it is particularly the case in wrestling that the importance of conditioning cannot be overstated. Money in the bank.

It's about equal prioritization.

[ginosifu]

an hour of pure conditioning

two hours of technique work

one hour of technique based conditioning



Is this per day? or Per week?

This is something like how we use to practice everyday.

ginosifu

[sanjuro_ronin]

there was an expression in Fukien Bak Hok, later used in Okinawan Goju;
"Three years saamjien (sanchin)"
These guys did nothing but Sanchin, Hojo Undo (jars, rings, weights, stones, makiwara, etc) for the first three years of training before learning other techniques.
And they were beasts.
I have a book of boxing workouts of top fighters. I would say at least 70% was conditioning.

That being said, do people compensate for lack of technique with strength? Beginners certainly do.
That is why the expression, "Beginners should not use strength" exists.
Funny-half the people overcompensate with strength, the other half doesn't want to put in the time for developmental training and just want to hit.

You always tend to compensate with strength, its only natural.
Thing is that, at times, it may FEEL that way to the other person but isn't always the case.
EX:
When I started adding ST to mu judo, I got stronger and my partners woudl say that I was "muscling" the moves, I didn't see it that way, why?
Because I felt I was using even LESS strength than I used to!
Why? Because it was stronger it felt that way to ME and my partners were also correct in what they felt too.

[lkfmdc]

Is this per day? or Per week?



per DAY

that is if you want to fight

many don't

[ginosifu]

per DAY

that is if you want to fight

many don't

I agree with this... everyday. Your training regime is good.

ginosifu

[SPJ]

strength and endurance are always important no matter what

if you may not out maneuver with the opponent with skills.

or the opponent is more skillful

we have to run or out run him.

---

:)

[donjitsu2]

Have we traded skill for strength? What I mean is: Instead of sparring / drilling 5 or 6 days a week maybe we have cut that down to 2 or 3 and the others days strength building. When I was in high school wrestling I remember hearing one of the coaches say: "If you wanna be good at Running.... then Run, If you wanna be good at Lifting.... then Lift, If you wanna be good at wrestling.... then wrestle."




There are a lot of guys who certainly do that.

I'm just as guilty as anyone. When I was younger I saw really fast improvements in strength and conditioning so I started focusing on barbell and kettlebell training. My martial arts training started taking a backseat.

It wasn't until I noticed I was having a harder and harder time dealing with the lower ranks (during hard sparring sessions) at our dojo that I realized I needed to re-focus and start really working my primary martial arts skill set again.

So, I don't think it is ever a good idea to trade skill work for strength training or conditioning.

Skill work (shadowboxing, heavybag, sparring) should be done as often as possible - daily would be ideal.

Strength training and conditioning are for when you have time - they are supplements.

But anyone can add on 5-10 min. on the end of a regular skill session for some conditioning drills (like burpees) and see some real improvement.

It may be harder to fit in a proper strength training session or two during the week for most people, though. But it isn't impossible especially if you take a minimalist approach.

[Dragonzbane76]

kinda funny story...

I go to a gym where they have a pretty big group of powerlifters. I do a moderate to heavy lifting regement myself, but I also have a lot of cardio and conditioning mixed in with my routines. I'm a pretty big guy, I flux. between 215 and 225. But standing next to some of these guys is like standing next to a bull.

Anyways, they know me from my bag work I do with my routine. One of the guys is a dedicated powerlifter and puts up ridiculous amounts of weight. One day he stopped and talked to me about doing the state police test and was telling me that he was pretty confident that he could do well. I asked if he did any cardio and he said not much. I said well, I know for certain they make you run a mile and 1/2 in a timed format and that he should probably get some running in. He kinda laughed and said that he didn't think he needed it.

Well I talked with him a couple weeks later and he said he didn't pass. I asked what part he failed on and he really didn't say. I later learned that it was the run and that he didn't even finish because he was sucking to much wind.

being big has it's advantages but if you don't have the gas tank to make it go then your sh!t outta luck.

My 2 cents.

[YouKnowWho]

Have we traded skill for strength.

If your "head lock" can give your opponent's some headaches, it will make your throw easier.

[ginosifu]

I think that most everyone here is jumping to the conclusion that I am somehow removing strength training for skill training. Strength training is a key component in any MA.

What I am trying to say is: Have we (the modern CMA) lessened the amount Sparring / Fighting Drills etc in favor of getting bigger and stronger to compensate for our lack skill in fighting?

Some of us still use old school Lin Gung regimes, some use modern weights and stuff. I don't think there any difference which way you do it.

I run a commercial CMA school and the modern person comes in 2 maybe 3 times a week. They do not spend any extra time on strength training or cardio or form work or anything. This may be why I think like I do because: No one wants to put the time in or schedule wise they can't put the time in. My school we focus on some Lin Gung and some Cardio but mostly fighting / drills and self defense. There is just not enough time to put more Strength training in anywhere in thier schedule.

For me personally I do some type of Strength training / Fighting / Sparring / Form work everyday. Are there any schools out there that have good students who put the time and effort into training 5-6 days a week?

ginosifu

[bawang]

i cant believe you say kung fu guys need to do less strength, when average kung fu guy is 120 pounds.

[Frost]

strength and conditioning is only useful if it adds to your training and doesnt take anything away from your technical work.

A properly constructed S and C program shouldnt take up that much time, and to be honest it should be done outside your class, you are in class to get better at your art, and whilst conditioning and some strength work is a natural part of that class, proper conditioning and strength work should be done seperatly

[YouKnowWho]

I prefer the strength training that can "enhance" my skill instead of just build big muscle. If I can throw my throwing dummy 100 times daily, it will not only build up my muscle but also enhance my throwing skill. I can also have fun by doing it. I can kill 3 birds with 1 stone.

1 stone - work out
3 birds - strength, combat skill, fun

Dig a hole and put a bowling ball in that hole. Use your foot to scoop that bowling ball out of that hole 100 times daily, you may not build big muscle by doing this, but you will still develop "foot picking" ability and have fun.

[HumbleWCGuy]

Only at the very lowest level do I think that people compensate for skill with strength. On some level, if you are truly developing skill, your strength should improve as well. It's hard to imagine that too many people would seek to increase their skill without adding some sort of conditioning.

[bawang]

classic kung fu saying is number one is balls, number two is big muskles, number three is technique.

[Frost]

I prefer the strength training that can "enhance" my skill instead of just build big muscle. If I can throw my throwing dummy 100 times daily, it will not only build up my muscle but also enhance my throwing skill. I can also have fun by doing it. I can kill 3 birds with 1 stone.

1 stone - work out
3 birds - strength, combat skill, fun

Dig a hole and put a bowling ball in that hole. Use your foot to scoop that bowling ball out of that hole 100 times daily, you may not build big muscle by doing this, but you will still develop "foot picking" ability and have fun.

the problem with building your strength just through your training is you reach a limit quickly, same with conditioning to take it to the next level you need specific training and specialized training, this is recognised in every sport there is, TCMA is no different

[YouKnowWho]

Only at the very lowest level do I think that people compensate for skill with strength.
In the throwing art, you will need special equipment to develop special strength.

http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/7338/singleheadlegtwist.jpg

Without this kind of strength development, no matter how long that you may train your "skill", your "skill" can only work against average person and won't work against a strong person.

Another good example is that you may be able to get a head lock on your opponent anytime you want to (you have a good skill to make it happen). If you can't generate enough pain on your opponent's skull by using your head lock, your head lock skill will still be "useless".

[YouKnowWho]

strength and conditioning is only useful if it adds to your training and doesnt take anything away from your technical work.

the problem with building your strength just through your training is you reach a limit quickly, same with conditioning to take it to the next level you need specific training and specialized training, this is recognised in every sport there is, TCMA is no different
Agree with you 100% on both.

[SPJ]

classic kung fu saying is number one is balls, number two is big muskles, number three is technique.

yes. this applies to army or military, too.

1 if 2 armies are with equal strength, the brave one will win. yong zhe seng.

2 if you are strong, you win anyway you want.

3 if you are weak, then you need tactics and strategy or outmaneuver/skill the opponent.

if you are in a narrow alley or bridge, there is no where to go.

who ever braver will win.

etc etc

---:)

[jdhowland]

There is a traditonal training regimen in our system that I still like to follow. It allows for three to four hours of training divided into four periods with a 5 minute tea/water break between each.

Period 1: running, limbering and basics.

In San Francisco, we ran up and down the Chinatown hills above the Embarcadero; in Hawaii we ran an easier but longer route (3 to 5 miles) in high humidity. Running was followed by hei gung until breathing slowed. Then about half an hour of limbering exercises followed by basic standing drills in increasingly demanding levels of exertion.

Period 2: strengthening and moving drills.

This is the most demanding period, ranging from fist and finger push ups to full tilt cardio workout (technique-based training).

Period 3: conditioning, sparring and training sets.

This the time to do body toughening drills and technique drills with a partner, training sets and weapons. New material is often introduced here so not as much cardio as first half of training session. Short (3 minute) high intensity drills on heavy bag.

Period 4: free training.

Sparring with gear, weapons work, whatever the student wants to improve. This is the time to compare notes and seek personal instruction. Talking is allowed. Cool-down period followed by hitting the noodle shops!

Looks as if our regimen is high on the conditioning end of the spectrum, low on the general strength/ weight training end. I'm thinking of adding a wrestling dummy to my personal training equipment.

[HumbleWCGuy]

In the throwing art, you will need special equipment to develop special strength.

http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/7338/singleheadlegtwist.jpg


That's an interesting device. Do you have more photos of similar devices?



Without this kind of strength development, no matter how long that you may train your "skill", your "skill" can only work against average person and won't work against a strong person.

Another good example is that you may be able to get a head lock on your opponent anytime you want to (you have a good skill to make it happen). If you can't generate enough pain on your opponent's skull by using your head lock, your head lock skill will still be "useless".
I think that we agree. That's basically what I was getting at. There is no such thing as skill without, without drilling and conditioning that develops strength.

Your photo calls to mind an interesting question. If part of skill is having "special strength," Is strength compensating for skill just having "gross strength" that lacks "special strength?"

[YouKnowWho]

Do you have more photos of similar devices?
The "single head" can be used to train many skills.

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/1374/singleheadknifehookv.jpg

http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/1716/singleheadleglift.jpg

http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/8890/singleheadsweep.jpg

There are a lot of training equipments in TCMA. The weight pulley is one of them.

http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/9546/weightpulley4.jpg

[ShaolinDan]

If part of skill is having "special strength," Is strength compensating for skill just having "gross strength" that lacks "special strength?"

Whoa. That was deep. :)

[YouKnowWho]

If part of skill is having "special strength," Is strength compensating for skill just having "gross strength" that lacks "special strength?"

You can bench press 250 lb daily. It still won't help you to develop a strong head lock. If you use your arm to squeeze football daily, it may help you to achieve your goal. Sometime "gross strength" training cannot achieve the same goal as "special strength" training does.

[-N-]

I run a commercial CMA school and the modern person comes in 2 maybe 3 times a week. They do not spend any extra time on strength training or cardio or form work or anything. This may be why I think like I do because: No one wants to put the time in or schedule wise they can't put the time in. My school we focus on some Lin Gung and some Cardio but mostly fighting / drills and self defense. There is just not enough time to put more Strength training in anywhere in thier schedule.

Even 30-45 minutes twice a week strength training on the days they are not in class can help.

That would be 30-45 minutes continuous. Not hanging out and talking in between sets.

[ginosifu]

Even 30-45 minutes twice a week strength training on the days they are not in class can help.

That would be 30-45 minutes continuous. Not hanging out and talking in between sets.

I would be so happy if my students did the above. Alas... most do not siiggghhh.

ginosifu

[David Jamieson]

There's nothing wrong with being strong.

[Darthlawyer]

I'm curious as to what the term "over compensating" means in the context of fighting. Assuming the most obvious goal of martial arts training is to be able to be a better fighter, wouldn't increasing your fighting ability in the most time-efficient manner possible be the goal? If you get better at fighting by focusing more on conditioning, strength training, etc, shouldn't you do that? If someone can do nothing but train for another sport, such as football, wrestling, or track, then come in and beat the tar out of you without having trained "martially" there's something fundamentally wrong in your approach, is there not?

I'd say there's a balance involved, based primarily on the individual's preference. Realistically, none of us are training for serious self defense (while I understand we've got some police officers/bouncers here, you don't need a lot of training to beat an average joe off the street). So it depends: do you want to have a competitive fighting ability right now in youth? Then you emphasize conditioning/strength training. If you want self defense/health benefits, you can have a more leisurely approach. At the end of the day, unless you are a professional fighter, a lot of this comes down to personal beliefs and preferences. Some people are hobby-ists and are content to take classes 2 times a week and "larp" it up. More power to them, if they enjoy it. Some people want to pretend that they are gonna be a pro fighter, and hit the gym, then pick fights in bars while UFC is on pay per view while they wear their Ed Hardy T Shirts: that's not for me, but I understand that some people are predisposed to that type of brute efficiency.

Personally, I believe in training on a broad base to improve as a fighter-- skill, forms, speed, endurance, strength. But if training for an actual competitive, full contact fight, I'd de-emphasize a lot of the fancier techniques (double crescents, jumping kicks, kicks that demand more flexibility than I currently possess, etc.) and focus on my strengths (hand work, boxing style combination punches, front and side kicks, low roundhouses). I believe that its about setting a goal, then putting together training that meets that goal.

If someone becomes the best fighter they can be by bulking up, based upon their natural genetics, mindset, etc: they'd be a fool to try to take a more cerebral, technical, "skill" or whatever you want to call it approach. But most people would benefit from taking a bit from both ends of the spectrum. However, if none of us ever get in a real, actual, life and death fight, we're really arguing for the sake of arguing.

[YouKnowWho]

Old Chinese saying said, "If you only train your skill and not your strength (Gong), you will have nothing left when you get old".

When you get old, you may lose some of your flexibility, speed, balance, and endurance, but you will not lose your strength (Gong) and experience. If your strength and experience cannot help you to handle average 20 years old, your life long TCMA training may be a totally waste toward the end of your life.

[iunojupiter]

That's an interesting device. Do you have more photos of similar devices?

Looks like you could improvise it with a plate fixed to one end of an barbell and the other end unweighted. Just make sure to use good plate securers on the end to keep the plate in place (Collar??).

Cheers,
Josh

[donjitsu2]

Looks like you could improvise it with a plate fixed to one end of an barbell and the other end unweighted. Just make sure to use good plate securers on the end to keep the plate in place (Collar??).

Cheers,
Josh


You could do that...but then you'd have the rest of the bar hanging below the weight.

Even if you placed the plate and collar very low on the bar you'd still have that little "nub" which would keep the implement from lying flat.

Not a huge deal but since it is such a simple tool to make you might me better off just going to home depot and buying an metal bar (about 5'5"-6') and a bag of concrete mix.

Not saying that the barbell won't work just you could have a more authentic implement for about the same amount of effort and you'd only have a spend a few bucks to get the items you need.

[Frost]

You can bench press 250 lb daily. It still won't help you to develop a strong head lock. If you use your arm to squeeze football daily, it may help you to achieve your goal. Sometime "gross strength" training cannot achieve the same goal as "special strength" training does.

Actually it can and I suppose what I meant by specialized strength programme would better be put as a dedicated strength programme, so my bad if I have confused people

Strength and conditioning outside of class should be general, you then apply this training in class to make it specific, take a 300 pound bencher and teach him to throw and you will have someone who is very strong who musts this strength into throwing, you simply cant overload enough on sports specific exercises to make an improvement after a certain point

[SPJ]

there is this old common saying

one strength may overcome 10 skills/techniques.

yi li seng shi ji.

--

:)

[YouKnowWho]

just going to home depot and buying an metal bar (about 5'5"-6') and a bag of concrete mix.

The PVC pipe is better than the metal bar. Since the PVC pipe will bounce and vibrate, it will force your body to reponse to it naturally. Also a 2 inch PVC pipe is hard to hold. It will develop your grip strength.

- a 2 inch PVC pipe ($4).
- a steal rod ($1.50).
- a bag of concret mix ($2.50).

You can use a cooking pot for the modle. It will give extra protection for your concrete.

[dillman]

the body is not the origin of strength the mind is

[YouKnowWho]

the body is not the origin of strength the mind is

It will be nice that we don't need to use our body to sweat but only to use our mind to think.

[Subitai]

My observations ok.....

The size of the person and thier potential energy matters.

Most guys that are near 200lbs or more already posses sufficient size and strength.... IE If they have been doing basic training and conditioning all along thier career.

I notice smaller guys tend to "HAVE TO" ramp up their Gong Training to compenstate for lack of mass or strength. It's only natural.

What I think Gino might be saying (perhaps his own observation) is that that some people fall in love with strength training and then never move on to really develop thier skill ... so in essence they are STUCK where they are?

Was that one of your points Gino?

"O"

[Darthlawyer]

the body is not the origin of strength the mind is

Ok, you think about punching me hard, while I punch you hard, and we'll see who wins a fight.

[HumbleWCGuy]

Ohh Snap!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

[-N-]

The PVC pipe is better than the metal bar. Since the PVC pipe will bounce and vibrate, it will force your body to reponse to it naturally. Also a 2 inch PVC pipe is hard to hold. It will develop your grip strength.

- a 2 inch PVC pipe ($4).
- a steal rod ($1.50).
- a bag of concret mix ($2.50).

You can use a cooking pot for the modle. It will give extra protection for your concrete.

What weight range would you recommend for the bottom part?

p.s. Does your wife get mad at you for stealing her cookware?

:)

[YouKnowWho]

What weight range would you recommend for the bottom part?

p.s. Does your wife get mad at you for stealing her cookware?

:)

There are 2 different weight. The heavy weight is the one that you "drag' along the ground. It can weight from 40 to 55 lb.

http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/1138/earthweight.jpg

The light weight is the one that you "throw" over your head. It can weight from 30 to 45 lb. This is the one that needs cookware protection.

http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/2963/heavenweight.jpg

I got my used cookware from GoodWill for $3.00. :D

[-N-]

Thanks!

We've been wanting to use something for that training aside from another person.

[ginosifu]

My observations ok.....

The size of the person and thier potential energy matters.

Most guys that are near 200lbs or more already posses sufficient size and strength.... IE If they have been doing basic training and conditioning all along thier career.

I notice smaller guys tend to "HAVE TO" ramp up their Gong Training to compenstate for lack of mass or strength. It's only natural.

What I think Gino might be saying (perhaps his own observation) is that that some people fall in love with strength training and then never move on to really develop thier skill ... so in essence they are STUCK where they are?

Was that one of your points Gino?

"O"

Yes, Something like that. People get into strength training (this is a good thing). Perhaps forget about increasing their sparring / fighting practice. Now they have good strength but no real fighting ability.

Quick story I read from Yang Jwing Ming:

Farmer lost his wife and land to his brother. His brother was bigger and could not get them back. So he went to the local Kung Fu Teacher and asked him for help. He wanted to learn kung fu and become a great fighter so he could get his wife and land back from his brother.

So the Kung Fu Sifu said: You first kung fu practice is to carry this calf and jump over this small baby willow tree every day. He says yes and procees to jump everyday with the calf. Everyday the calf and the willow tree are growing little by little.

After a year of this the Kung Fu teacher States: Your kung fu training is complete. Go now and get your wife and land back. So the farmer carries and calf back to his house and the brother seeing the strength of the farmer ran away and was never seen again. The farmer got his wife and land back.

Chinese morale of the story is strength is key to fighting. However, I have a problem with this: Did the farmer have any clue how to fight? Just because you have strength does mean you can fight your way out of a paper bag. Why didn't the brother just out maneuver the farmer and use good fighting skill to overcome his strength.

ginosifu

[ginosifu]

Another quick story, this one from my school.

A 4th degree Black Belt from another style came to my school, wanting to increase his knowledge. He was a big husky guy and looked like he lifted or did some type of lin gung.

He was getting beat up by my under Black beginner students. We do a mix of Lin Gung and fighting drills and sparring and wrestling etc etc.

Morale of the story: Even though strength training is important, if you forget about your fighting skills, you will get beat in sparring or fighting class.

ginosifu

[Frost]

dont think anyone would say one is more important than the other, or that you shouldnt train one quality

but strength can be a great equalizer

[-N-]

However, I have a problem with this: Did the farmer have any clue how to fight? Just because you have strength does mean you can fight your way out of a paper bag. Why didn't the brother just out maneuver the farmer and use good fighting skill to overcome his strength.

Well, there's no mention in this story that the brother knew how to fight either. He was just bigger. So it came down to which one was stronger.

Or more accurately, which one got intimidated first, since nothing physical happened.

My problem is why would he want his wife back.

[ginosifu]

Well, there's no mention in this story that the brother knew how to fight either. He was just bigger. So it came down to which one was stronger.

Or more accurately, which one got intimidated first, since nothing physical happened.

My problem is why would he want his wife back.

LOL, yes you're right. This is just one of those old morale stories I have read over the years.

ginosifu

[SPJ]

It will be nice that we don't need to use our body to sweat but only to use our mind to think.

yes, there is training of both the body and the mind/yi.

we all start with stilling the body and the mind.

before we do any movement or thinking.

---

a strong body and a strong will power and cool/observant/analytical mind

etc etc

mind like a steel or water

body like a steel

both need training or tried over and over

--

:D

[dillman]

Ok, you think about punching me hard, while I punch you hard, and we'll see who wins a fight.

if I can stop you from punching then how can you win? if i can stop you from even thinking about punching then its a double win. if your mind is weak then your fists are even weaker.

[Darthlawyer]

if I can stop you from punching then how can you win? if i can stop you from even thinking about punching then its a double win. if your mind is weak then your fists are even weaker.
How about trying to philosophize while someone is punching you? Let me know how it works.

Or a swift kick would work too.