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SimonM
07-23-2011, 09:58 AM
This news source summarizes what we know so far pretty well. (http://blogs.voanews.com/breaking-news/2011/07/23/norway-shooting-bombing-suspect-recently-bought-six-tons-of-fertilizer/)

Eighty-five confirmed dead in the shooting, mostly children, more likely. Seven dead in the bombing with nine more seriously injured.

The suspect apprehended is apparently cooperating with police and "wants to explain himself"

Although early reports in conservative media sources tried to blame Islamic bugbears the apparent shooter is a Christian conservative with anti-immigration, nationalistic sentiments.

rett
07-23-2011, 12:08 PM
Although early reports in conservative media sources tried to blame Islamic bugbears

You lost me right there as you exploit this tragedy to make a whiney little leftist point. All reputable and reliable sources still agree that Islamic militants post the greatest security threat to Europe and even Norway today.

My heart goes out to Norway and especially to the parents friends and family of the victims. That's all that needs saying.

SimonM
07-23-2011, 01:00 PM
Oh look: A conservative calling any critique from the left "whiney" oh dear me, whatever will I do? :rolleyes:

rett
07-23-2011, 01:04 PM
Oh look: A conservative calling any critique from the left "whiney" oh dear me, whatever will I do? :rolleyes:

Now the only thing you can do is to call me a "conservative" presumably from your blindered little Canadian viewpoint.

I'm a social-liberal in the Swedish sense of the term. Have voted that way, thought that way, for years. Conservatism as in North America is an incredibly marginal phenomenon here.

Why don't you drop your unbelievably snide and superior attitude, especially in this of all threads.

I find it offensive that you would post about this event just to push your agenda.

SimonM
07-23-2011, 01:44 PM
You know what Rett? You make a good point. And I apologize.

The greatest tragedy here is that the crime happened at all. I am sickened by the loss of life.

I'm also furious with the BBC and the Telegraph and Sun Media for their response to this terrible atrocity.

We don't always respond in the best way when we are angry.

So, again, I'm sorry for causing offence. It was not my intention.

Syn7
07-23-2011, 02:23 PM
pretty crazy... im still short on some of the details... these things pop up every now and then... not to sound heartless, but a massacre here and there is pretty normal... sucks to be them tho... i find it amazing that so few died from the actual bombing... 80 people by gun is indeed a bloodbath and a half...

best wishes to the fams left behind...

Syn7
07-23-2011, 02:25 PM
Now the only thing you can do is to call me a "conservative" presumably from your blindered little Canadian viewpoint.

I'm a social-liberal in the Swedish sense of the term. Have voted that way, thought that way, for years. Conservatism as in North America is an incredibly marginal phenomenon here.

Why don't you drop your unbelievably snide and superior attitude, especially in this of all threads.

I find it offensive that you would post about this event just to push your agenda.

whats with the Canada vs US garbage i keep seeinbg in here???

look, we all make jokes and politically the two countries are very different... but as every day people, we are all very VERY similar... ive lived in both countries and feel i have more than enough experience to say that the differences between the two countries people are minute...

David Jamieson
07-23-2011, 06:25 PM
This is very troubling indeed.

Hardwork108
07-23-2011, 09:51 PM
whats with the Canada vs US garbage i keep seeinbg in here???

look, we all make jokes and politically the two countries are very different... but as every day people, we are all very VERY similar... ive lived in both countries and feel i have more than enough experience to say that the differences between the two countries people are minute...

Of course the differences between the two countries are minute. After all they are run by the same people.

Hardwork108
07-23-2011, 09:58 PM
Have a look at this (Washington's Blog):


Our thoughts and prayers are with the victims.

Norway is an odd choice as a Muslim terror target:

* Norway has endorsed Palestinian statehood. See this, this and this

* Norway has excluded Isareli investments. As Haaertz reported last year:

Norway’s 450 billion euro oil-riches fund has excluded two Israeli firms involved in developing settlements ... on ethical grounds, Norway’s finance ministry said on Monday.

* Indeed, Senator Lieberman has accused Norway of promoting anti-semitism

* Norway has also announced its plan to withdraw from the Libyan war

* The summer camp where the shootings took place had just concluded a pro-Palestinian rally the day before

This is hardly the profile of a normal Muslim terrorist target. Therefore, many are alleging that it is another false flag terror attack.

In addition, as Business Insider notes:

The other big possibility, touted by some on Twitter, is that the attack could have come from the Norwegian right. The Norwegian far right were once a feared proposition but have been relatively mellow in recent years due to the success of populist success of the Progress Party.

BBC notes:

Meanwhile a gunman dressed as a policeman started shooting at a Labour youth camp on the island of Utoeya.

Unconfirmed reports say several people have been killed. The gunman has been arrested.

The Telegraph reports:

Hours later there was an summer camp youth conference of the ruling Labour Party, which is being attended by current Prime Minister Jens Stoltenberg. The conference is taking place on the island of Utøya. The man apparently infiltrated the conference on the pretence that he had been sent by the police as a security measure in the wake of the Oslo explosions. As such, it is likely he was ethnically Norwegian. This could indicate the involvement of a far-right group rather than an Islamist group ...

MSNBC notes:

Police say the gunman is a 32-year-old Norwegian.

Witnesses described the suspect as "blond" and "Nordic-looking." Late Friday, Knut Storberegt, Norway's royal minister of justice and the police, confirmed that he is a Norwegian; the BBC, citing police, said he was from Utoya. Police said he is also believed to have been involved in the bombing that killed seven people earlier in the day in Oslo, about 25 miles away.

Magnus Ranstorp, a specialist in militant Islamic movements and research director at the Center for Asymmetric Threat Studies at the Swedish National Defense College, cautioned that widespread assumptions that the attacks were connected to international terrorism could be wrong.

The description of the suspect and his possible involvement in bombing national government offices "point to an internal rather than external extremist," Ranstorp told Nettavisen.

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2011/07/terrorist-bomb-attack-in-oslo-norway.html



THEN LOOK AT THIS (The BBC):

Three held in Norway 'al-Qaeda bomb plot'

Janne Kristiansen, head of Norway's security police, announces the arrests
Continue reading the main story
Related Stories

* Terror suspect held on US warrant
* Norway country profile

Three people have been arrested in connection with a plot to bomb targets in Norway, police in Oslo have said.

Two of the plotters were arrested in Norway and one in Germany, said the head of the Norwegian security police, Janne Kristiansen.

The men - a Uighur from China, an Iraqi and an Uzbek - are said to have ties to al-Qaeda and to be linked to bomb plots in the US and UK, Ms Kristiansen said.

The three, all Norwegian residents, had been under surveillance for a year.

US prosecutors say the Norwegian case is linked to foiled bomb plots in New York and the English city of Manchester.

"We believe this group has had links to people abroad who can be linked to al-Qaeda, and to people who are involved in investigations in other countries, among others the United States and Britain," Ms Kristiansen said.

She said one of the men was a Norwegian citizen, 39, a Muslim Uighur from China, who had lived in Norway since 1999.

Another was an Iraqi citizen, 37, who was granted Norwegian residency on humanitarian grounds.
Continue reading the main story
“Start Quote

Norwegians are coming to terms with the fact that their country can no longer be considered a neutral peace facilitator, immune to international terror threats”

End Quote Lars Bevanger

* Norway no longer safe from harm

The third man was an Uzbek national, 31, who was granted permanent residency in Norway on grounds of family reunification, Ms Kristiansen said.

She gave no details of where the men were arrested, nor any information about locations which may have been targeted for attacks.

Ms Kristiansen said the arrests had been brought forward because news of the probe was about to appear in the international media.

"Such an exposure of the case, without a foregoing arrest, could have proved destructive to the investigation, and with great danger of destruction of evidence," she told a news conference in Oslo.

"We have not chosen this timing completely by ourselves, but we think that we have a solid case, which in the end, naturally, will be up to the courts to decide."

The BBC's security correspondent Gordon Corera says Norway may have been targeted because it has troops in Afghanistan.
Twin plots

On Wednesday, US prosecutors unveiled charges against four men wanted over a plot to bomb the underground system in New York.
Map

They also brought extra charges against a fifth man who is awaiting trial over the alleged conspiracy, foiled last September.

Two other men, Colorado resident Najibullah Zazi and New Yorker Zarein Ahmedzay, have already pleaded guilty.

The US Attorney General, Eric Holder, has described the New York conspiracy as one of the most serious terrorist plots since the 9/11 attacks in 2001.

"The charges reveal that the plot... was directed by senior al-Qaeda leadership in Pakistan," the US Department of Justice said in a statement.

It continues: "[The plot] was also directly related to a scheme by al-Qaeda plotters in Pakistan to use Western operatives to attack a target in the United Kingdom."

One of those named by New York prosecutors is Abid Naseer.

The US is seeking the extradition of the Pakistan-born 24-year-old, who was arrested in the north-east of England on Wednesday.

Mr Naseer was remanded in custody by a court in the UK.

The former construction site worker is suspected of being the ringleader of a plot, thwarted in April 2009, to bomb targets in Manchester city centre.

As in Oslo, the police operation in Manchester had to be brought forward.

Police made arrests ahead of schedule in the Manchester plot after a senior UK police officer unwittingly revealed details of the operation.

A bid to put Mr Naseer on trial in Britain was aborted last year and his deportation was blocked when a judge said he could face torture in Pakistan.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10554523


Something smell's fishy! "False Flag", anyone? I am not saying it 100% yet, but people have to think about such events!

Syn7
07-25-2011, 03:40 PM
it was not a false flag attack... don't be a retard... i know its hard... but just dont...


it was some insecure lil d1ck j3rkoff without the good sense to stick the gun in his own mouth...

David Jamieson
07-26-2011, 07:45 AM
Indeed, "false flag" is a ridiculous assumption seeing as it was immediately reported as is except of course by te ass hats at fox news who immediately went to "fascist islam" with it and of course...now they don't want to talk about it because the guy was a right wing christian terrorist and that would just confuse the people they have worked very hard at convincing to believe in their stream of pathetic lies.

just sayin... :)

BJJ-Blue
07-26-2011, 08:55 AM
Indeed, "false flag" is a ridiculous assumption seeing as it was immediately reported as is except of course by te ass hats at fox news who immediately went to "fascist islam" with it and of course...now they don't want to talk about it because the guy was a right wing christian terrorist and that would just confuse the people they have worked very hard at convincing to believe in their stream of pathetic lies.

Just stop. If they were pushing a right wing agenda they would point out that no one in Norway can own a gun without Gov't permission. And since the liberals say we only have gun violence because of our lax gun laws, they could use this very story to attack liberals and further this agenda you claim they have.

As for lies, they aren't running around saying the Federal Reserve is a private corporation. Nor are they blowing up GM trucks (NBC), or taking anonymous faxes from Kinko's as proof (CBS) to further their agenda.

BJJ-Blue
07-26-2011, 09:02 AM
And fyi David, you might want to actually check out the Foxews website before you make false assertions about them. At this very moment they have TWO front page articles about the Norway massacre. Here are the links to them, and to the Foxnews front page so you can see for yourself.

Sources:
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/07/26/lawyer-case-suggests-norway-suspect-is-insane/?test=latestnews
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/07/26/norway-justice-employees-missing-after-massacre/
http://www.foxnews.com/

MasterKiller
07-26-2011, 09:51 AM
Just stop. If they were pushing a right wing agenda they would point out that no one in Norway can own a gun without Gov't permission. And since the liberals say we only have gun violence because of our lax gun laws, they could use this very story to attack liberals and further this agenda you claim they have. You deny Fox has an obvious right-wing slant?


As for lies, they aren't running around saying the Federal Reserve is a private corporation. Nor are they blowing up GM trucks (NBC), or taking anonymous faxes from Kinko's as proof (CBS) to further their agenda.

http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/steinbergweb.jpg

http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/reddweb.jpg

BJJ-Blue
07-26-2011, 10:17 AM
Are you playing the 'but they do it too' card?

David Jamieson
07-26-2011, 10:34 AM
Are you playing the 'but they do it too' card?

Are you minimizing the fact that a self proclaimed right wing christian terrorist murdered 76 people in cold blood based on his own whack political thoughts?

really?

fwiw, Tim McVeigh said he was a Christian as well.

It's not a question of "they do it too" It's a fact that people do this and painting them according to the clothes they wear is often lacking in critical thought.

MasterKiller
07-26-2011, 10:39 AM
Are you playing the 'but they do it too' card?

No, I'm playing the "you're full of sh1t" card.

Taixuquan99
07-26-2011, 11:05 AM
I guess reporting it in regards fascist Islam doesn't count as applying their bias.

MasterKiller
07-26-2011, 11:27 AM
I guess reporting it in regards fascist Islam doesn't count as applying their bias.

Or Glen Beck comparing the camp he shot up to a "Hitler youth camp."

wenshu
07-26-2011, 11:34 AM
Roger Ailes must be so relieved to have a major news event eclipse their obvious lack of any coverage whatsoever of the News Corp scandal.

BJJ-Blue
07-26-2011, 12:03 PM
No, I'm playing the "you're full of sh1t" card.

So are you saying NBC didn't rig GM trucks to explode and that CBS did not present anonymous faxes from Kinko's as legit?

After all, those are the allegations I made. And if they are true I can't very well be "full of ****" can I? Now of course that would apply to someone who said the Federal Reserve is a private corporation. ;)

David Jamieson
07-26-2011, 12:11 PM
So are you saying NBC didn't rig GM trucks to explode and that CBS did not present anonymous faxes from Kinko's as legit?

After all, those are the allegations I made. And if they are true I can't very well be "full of ****" can I? Now of course that would apply to someone who said the Federal Reserve is a private corporation. ;)

Just be thankful we don't load you down with the veritable sh1tload of indiscretions and unethical practices your fav channel has been involved in.

Who gives a crap about the others, fact is that FoxNews = scumbag pseudo reporting and blatant lies used as a freakish attempt at manipulating people into seeing things in the same way their overlord sees them. IE: without respect or dignity or truth.

I await the day in court with that lot. I think they deserve to face charges over their lies, misrepresentation and pure abuse of the corporation and money to push an unsavory, unsatisfying and un-American agenda.

Burn Fox, Burn. Fox gives terrorism a voice...

BJJ-Blue
07-26-2011, 12:14 PM
Are you minimizing the fact that a self proclaimed right wing christian terrorist murdered 76 people in cold blood based on his own whack political thoughts?

It's not a question of "they do it too" It's a fact that people do this and painting them according to the clothes they wear is often lacking in critical thought.

You're so lost it's pathetic. I said that in regards to MK's post. He played that card, not you.

I don't believe the suspect has mentioned Christianity. If he has, please source that allegation.

And I'm minimizing nothing. I'm just not using the tragedy to score political points. I just refuted those who are doing that. It would really be pathetic if you guys are using this tragedy to slam Christianity when the suspect hasn't even mentioned he was Christian. I guess I'll have to see if you guys can source that allegation. ;)

BJJ-Blue
07-26-2011, 12:17 PM
fwiw, Tim McVeigh said he was a Christian as well.

You're wrong on that assertion as well. Par for the course I guess.

McVeigh stated that he did not believe in Hell and that science is his religion. In June, 2001, a day before the execution, McVeigh wrote a letter to the Buffalo News claiming to be an agnostic.

Sources:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36135258/ns/msnbc_tv-meet_the_faces_of_msnbc/
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2001/jun/11/mcveigh.usa4
Michel, Lou and Herbeck, Dan. American Terrorist. pp. 142–143.

BJJ-Blue
07-26-2011, 12:24 PM
Just be thankful we don't load you down with the veritable sh1tload of indiscretions and unethical practices your fav channel has been involved in.

I see you can play the 'but they do it too' card as well. :rolleyes:


I await the day in court with that lot. I think they deserve to face charges over their lies, misrepresentation and pure abuse of the corporation and money to push an unsavory, unsatisfying and un-American agenda.

Actually NBC already got theirs for blowing up the GM trucks. They settled out of court, read an apology on air, and had several people resign. Here is the list of resignations:

Michael Gartner - President, NBC news
Jeff Diamond - Executive Producer, Dateline NBC
David Rummel - Senior Producer, Dateline NBC
Robert Read - Producer, Dateline NBC
Michelle Gillen - Reporter, Dateline NBC

Taixuquan99
07-26-2011, 12:54 PM
I guess reporting it in regards fascist Islam doesn't count as applying their bias.

BJJ-Blue
07-26-2011, 01:47 PM
I guess reporting it in regards fascist Islam doesn't count as applying their bias.

I didn't keep up with the story, but did they actually say it was for sure done by Islamic terrorists? Or was it something like, 'Islamic terrorists are suspected', etc? And if they did, were they the ONLY news outlet to do so?

Taixuquan99
07-26-2011, 02:21 PM
I didn't keep up with the story, but did they actually say it was for sure done by Islamic terrorists? Or was it something like, 'Islamic terrorists are suspected', etc? And if they did, were they the ONLY news outlet to do so?

Google much?

BJJ-Blue
07-26-2011, 02:30 PM
Google much?

I actually used Yahoo. I just found this on Foxnews site the day after the attacks:

"National police chief Sveinung Sponheim told NRK that the suspected gunman's Internet postings "suggest that he has some political traits directed toward the right, and anti-Muslim views, but whether that was a motivation for the actual act remains to be seen.""

Source: (complete article)
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/07/22/explosion-damages-buildings-in-norwegian-capital/

I couldn't find anything about their website mentioning Muslims except that it might be anti-Muslim.

Now Laura Ingram (while guest hosting O'Reilly's show) did mention it MIGHT be the work of Muslims. This was AFTER a terrorism analyst reported a jihadist group claimed responsibility.

Source:
http://www.rawstory.com/rawreplay/2011/07/fox-news-pairs-norway-attacks-with-nyc-islamic-center/

He is a non-Fox outlet repeating the claim a jihadist group did claim responsibility:

http://www.fastcompany.com/1768726/oslo-terrorists-allegedly-claim-responsibility-via-jihadi-forums-youtube

So did Fox make the accusations, or did they just report on the claims that later were found to be false?

Taixuquan99
07-26-2011, 02:37 PM
Now Laura Ingram (while guest hosting O'Reilly's show) did mention it MIGHT be the work of Muslims. This was AFTER a terrorism analyst reported a jihadist group claimed responsibility.


It was also after it was revealed that it was a right winger. In one of the links. That the article cites. As saying that it was a right winger.

Taixuquan99
07-26-2011, 02:39 PM
So did Fox make the accusations, or did they just report on the claims that later were found to be false?

Technically, they reported on claims that were already known to be false by the time their report aired.

BJJ-Blue
07-26-2011, 02:39 PM
And here is what CNN had to say the day of the attacks:

"CNN: So, if it's sophisticated, does that mean it could be terrorism?

LISTER: I think the betting is on terrorism. We don't know for sure, yet. But you've only got to look at the sort of blast that occurred. You've only got to look at the target - prime minister's office, the headquarters of the major newspaper group next door.

Why would that be relevant? Because the Norwegian newspapers republished the cartoons of Prophet Mohammad that caused such offense in the Muslim world. When that happened, the Norwegian telecoms offices in Pakistan were attacked and ransacked. The Norwegian embassy in Damascus was attacked. That is an issue that still rankles amongst Islamist militants the world over.

So, that fact that Norwegian newspapers did that makes them a target.

CNN: And why do you think Norway?

LISTER: Norway, for several reasons. One I mentioned the cartoons.

You would have thought Norway, a small country at the top of the world, 5 million people, why? Well, they've been active in Afghanistan. They had a deployment there for several years. They're active in the Libyan air campaign, the cartoon issue.

But also, what we're finding in Scandinavia is that groups themselves are coming together from Denmark, Sweden, and Norway, different ethnicities, very often gathering and meeting in mosques, and they're local to Norway, Sweden, Denmark. They know where the targets are.

And just last week, there was a man who lived in Norway, who's head of Ansar al-Islam, a very radical Sunni group from northern Iraq, who was prosecuted because he'd threatened Norwegian ministers because he was going to be deported. He said, you deport me and I get killed in Iraq, the same will happen to Norwegian ministers.

So, they do have this fringe in Scandinavian countries of Islamist militants. And they're only just getting grips with that."

Source: (full transcript)
http://security.blogs.cnn.com/2011/07/22/qa-why-norway/

Taixuquan99
07-26-2011, 02:42 PM
And here is what CNN had to say the day of the attacks:

"CNN: So, if it's sophisticated, does that mean it could be terrorism?

LISTER: I think the betting is on terrorism. We don't know for sure, yet. But you've only got to look at the sort of blast that occurred. You've only got to look at the target - prime minister's office, the headquarters of the major newspaper group next door.

Why would that be relevant? Because the Norwegian newspapers republished the cartoons of Prophet Mohammad that caused such offense in the Muslim world. When that happened, the Norwegian telecoms offices in Pakistan were attacked and ransacked. The Norwegian embassy in Damascus was attacked. That is an issue that still rankles amongst Islamist militants the world over.

So, that fact that Norwegian newspapers did that makes them a target.

CNN: And why do you think Norway?

LISTER: Norway, for several reasons. One I mentioned the cartoons.

You would have thought Norway, a small country at the top of the world, 5 million people, why? Well, they've been active in Afghanistan. They had a deployment there for several years. They're active in the Libyan air campaign, the cartoon issue.

But also, what we're finding in Scandinavia is that groups themselves are coming together from Denmark, Sweden, and Norway, different ethnicities, very often gathering and meeting in mosques, and they're local to Norway, Sweden, Denmark. They know where the targets are.

And just last week, there was a man who lived in Norway, who's head of Ansar al-Islam, a very radical Sunni group from northern Iraq, who was prosecuted because he'd threatened Norwegian ministers because he was going to be deported. He said, you deport me and I get killed in Iraq, the same will happen to Norwegian ministers.

So, they do have this fringe in Scandinavian countries of Islamist militants. And they're only just getting grips with that."

Source: (full transcript)
http://security.blogs.cnn.com/2011/07/22/qa-why-norway/

And that's an article from before it was announced that it was a right winger, unlike the Fox one, which was released after.

I won't even comment on the difference in tone of the CNN one from the Fox one.

BJJ-Blue
07-26-2011, 02:43 PM
Technically, they reported on claims that were already known to be false by the time their report aired.

Can you prove that? And remember, that show may be taped. So include that in your research.

Although you didn't deny she did say "might". So you can't show that they reported it as fact, correct?

BJJ-Blue
07-26-2011, 02:44 PM
I won't even comment on the difference in tone of the CNN one from the Fox one.

:rolleyes: They both said it might have been Muslim terrorists.

Taixuquan99
07-26-2011, 02:54 PM
Can you prove that?

The dates on the three articles you posted prove it, I don't need to.


And remember, that show may be taped. So include that in your research.

Snotty, aren't we? The Fox show was taped, which doesn't exactly say much, taped shows are often fixed when facts change. Fox didn't bother, or they simply weren't keeping track of the news, neither case would be surprising.


Although you didn't deny she did say "might". So you can't show that they reported it as fact, correct?

Which proves no single point of your argument. The content of articles stating reasons islamic terrorists might have targeted a place is not exactly the same as analysts interjecting their own "once again" kind of statements into stories whose details aren't known. Since the statement sounds characteristic for most of Fox's commentators, it's not hard to point to a general lack of professionalism and adherence to a bias.

Taixuquan99
07-26-2011, 02:56 PM
:rolleyes: They both said it might have been Muslim terrorists.

Yet the tone was completely different. One was professional, one was "I told you so." The "I told you so" was aired after the facts were out and the "I told you so," being based on an unreliable source, would look stupid to anyone keeping track of the news.

I understand Fox doesn't have the time or staff to keep track of the news and all.

Taixuquan99
07-26-2011, 03:02 PM
Ingraham:
"two deadly terror attacks in Norway, in what appears to be the work, once again, of Muslim extremists…"

Once again...

Ooh, wait, scratch that. Eager to make that point, wasn't she?

David Jamieson
07-26-2011, 05:13 PM
McVeigh being called a christian is a joke. but as he's white and american, that is how he is perceived. by a great many people, including myself lol.

Even though he is vehemently denied any sort of christianity, he was basically a fence sitter with no exposure to any concept of religion EXCEPT christianity.

Here nor there, bottom line, he couldn't possibly be a christian in any sense any more than Osama Bin Laden is a Muslim. Or any number of terrorists who may use religion as an excuse but have no leg to stand on when confronted by the religious doctrines itself.

Tell me, do you think Al queada attacked America to spread Islam? What is the reason we were attacked?

Do you think this norwegian guy was anything but a nut caught up with other nuts in their misguided quest to form a world they wanted?

Hardwork108
07-27-2011, 01:10 AM
it was not a false flag attack... don't be a retard... i know its hard... but just dont...


it was some insecure lil d1ck j3rkoff without the good sense to stick the gun in his own mouth...
As I implied, when things like this happen one should always investigate the "false flag" possibility, after all the fact that most of our lives are run by Fascist dictatorships mascarading as "Democracies" - who have used False Flags such as 9-11 to go on to loot and massacre countries half a world away - should make us always vigilant!

PS. All "False Flag" operations have cover stories prepared long before they are implemented and usually it is some "nut" or "nuts" that are blamed.

Anyway, I am still not stating a false flag as a 100% fact, but I am merely saying that the possibility has to be considered. So, I recommend cross referencing the official version of the event with independent news sources!

BJJ-Blue
07-27-2011, 06:41 AM
The Fox show was taped, which doesn't exactly say much,

LMFAO!!! So you're now saying that though the show was taped, that doesn't explain why the news on that show was out of date. :rolleyes:

You're staring to sound alot like Jamieson. Maybe you should make up a few 'facts' too. You know, like saying the Federal Reserve is a private corporation or that Tim McVeigh was a Christian.

BJJ-Blue
07-27-2011, 06:42 AM
Ingraham:
"two deadly terror attacks in Norway, in what appears to be the work, once again, of Muslim extremists…"

Once again...

Ooh, wait, scratch that. Eager to make that point, wasn't she?

So you're saying that the Muslims have never conducted terrorist actions before?

BJJ-Blue
07-27-2011, 06:50 AM
McVeigh being called a christian is a joke. but as he's white and american, that is how he is perceived. by a great many people, including myself lol.

Even though he is vehemently denied any sort of christianity, he was basically a fence sitter with no exposure to any concept of religion EXCEPT christianity.

You're unbelieveable. You just can't EVER admit you were wrong. So, was you claiming the Federal Reserve is a private corporation a joke too?


Tell me, do you think Al queada attacked America to spread Islam? What is the reason we were attacked?

We were attacked because since we are not Muslims, they look at us as the enemy. It's really quite simple. Now if we beheaded 'infidels', stoned rape victims to death, and threw acid on women who didn't cover their entire bodies, they wouldn't attack us. But as long we are free to not live under their warped beliefs, we are the enemy. It's not any more complicated than that.


Do you think this norwegian guy was anything but a nut caught up with other nuts in their misguided quest to form a world they wanted?

Time will tell. I will venture to say he was a 'lone gunman', but I could be wrong. I say that only because he is very eager to talk, yet no one else has been arrested.

BJJ-Blue
07-27-2011, 06:55 AM
Jamieson,

Here is Colonel Allen West (now a Congressman from Florida) explaining why Muslims attack us. Colonel West served in the Army in Iraq and was a civilian advisor in Afghanistan.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkGQmCZjJ0k

David Jamieson
07-27-2011, 08:03 AM
Jamieson,

Here is Colonel Allen West (now a Congressman from Florida) explaining why Muslims attack us. Colonel West served in the Army in Iraq and was a civilian advisor in Afghanistan.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkGQmCZjJ0k

Yeah, so t hat makes sense. I'll listen to a guy who is into killing others about why a religious variant wants to kill us all. LOL, right!

You don't think he's actually being truthful do you? You don't think he isn't guided in what he says?

He's spouting lies and crap. Why do YOU think Al-Q attacked? YOU, not some shill for the US Gov. His word is worthless from that standpoint alone. Why? Because he IS their enemy and therefore cannot be trusted to be even slightly objective.

Truth is this:

- saudi terrorists crash a plane into the wtc.

- w decides it's a good idea to invade Iraq.

- The rest of the world wonders what the hell happened to America and proceeds to spend 8 years watching a pretty crazy administration do a lot of really crazy things that eventually led us all to where we sit now!

- We spend more than a decade trying to figure out this huge cluster hump

- more nonsense, more military industrial congressional complex CRAP

-?

-hopefully and end to the nonsense. starting with a flush out in the GOP party. lol

Taixuquan99
07-27-2011, 09:32 AM
LMFAO!!! So you're now saying that though the show was taped, that doesn't explain why the news on that show was out of date. :rolleyes:

It wasn't a rerun, disrespectful moron, it was aired when the factual information it contained was incorrect, and either no one at Fox caught it, or cared. News show are constantly in the position of needing to tweek recorded programs.

Since you have proven, once again, to be incapable of debate, I'll leave you with this. I'd source it, but that would leave you nothing to whine hypocritically about. The State Department seems to think this source worth viewing.

The bulk of the supporters of Islamic political movements in the Middle East do not self identify as particularly pious in regards to Islam. Their habits do not conform to either extreme ideologies or outward, serious displays that most serious Muslims consider signs of piety in Islam. Conversely, those who do identify as devout Muslims, who do display behaviors associated with Islam, are less likely to be involved in Islamic political movements than their less devout counterparts. This is because the popularity of Islamic political movements is not primarily due to their Islamic overtones, but because they are quite literally the only political force in the Middle East that has any impact on the far right ruling parties. Because the left in the Middle East was wiped out as a viable political force during the Cold War, because the far right ruling parties have largely without exception erased any election they lost and locked up their rivals, citizens have no single way to influence the politics of their region EXCEPT radical Islam. So that the far right ruling parties, at this point, are very likely unable to establish more moderate democratic institutions, because their own extreme conduct(and our support of it over too long a span) deprived them of the ability to lose an election and not risk losing state stability.

Your view of Islam is based on a medium that cannot rise above the middle school level. That is not an insult of the medium: it is what the medium requires.

End of my part of this debate, you disrespectful moron.

BJJ-Blue
07-27-2011, 09:51 AM
Yeah, so t hat makes sense. I'll listen to a guy who is into killing others about why a religious variant wants to kill us all. LOL, right!

You don't think he's actually being truthful do you? You don't think he isn't guided in what he says?

Why do you ask questions if you're just going to argue with the answers?


He's spouting lies and crap. Why do YOU think Al-Q attacked? YOU, not some shill for the US Gov. His word is worthless from that standpoint alone. Why? Because he IS their enemy and therefore cannot be trusted to be even slightly objective.

No, actually he is an educated man, an officer in the US Army, and a US Congressman. Of course I've seen you dismiss Drake's opinions/facts about the Middle East despite his experiences over there, so I'm not surprised.

You know what, why don't you just tell us the answers to everything and save us the hassle of posting. After all, no matter who answers your questions you'll just insult them and say how they don't know what they are tlaking about anyway. Unless of course they agree with you, then they are brilliant people.

As to why I say they attacked us, I answered that a few posts ago.

Now let me fix the rest of your foolishness and lies:

Truth is this:

- Muslim terrorists crash a plane into the wtc.

- Bush, the UN, and the US Congress decides it's a good idea to invade Iraq.

- Some of the free world agrees with us and sends troops. The United Kingdom, Australia, Romania, El Salvador, Estonia, Bulgaria, Moldova, Albania, Ukraine, Denmark, Czech Republic, South Korea, Japan, Tonga, Aizerbaijan, Singapore, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Macedonai, Latvia, Poland, Kazakhstan, Armenia, Mongolia, Georgia, Slovakia, Lithuania, Italy, Norway, Hungary, Netherlands, Portugal, New Zealand, Thailand, Philippines, Honduras, Dominican Republic, Spain, Nicaragua, and Iceland all send troops to support the mission.

- We spend less than a decade and kill Saddam Hussein and Osama bin-Laden and many other high ranking Al-Quaida leaders.

-hopefully and end to the nonsense, starting with flushing you and your made up facts from the site.

Source:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multinational_force_in_Iraq#Troop_deployment_in_Ir aq_2003-2011

BJJ-Blue
07-27-2011, 09:58 AM
It wasn't a rerun, disrespectful moron, it was aired when the factual information it contained was incorrect, and either no one at Fox caught it, or cared. News show are constantly in the position of needing to tweek recorded programs.

I didn't say it was a re-run. I said it was taped. And please stop calling names. I don't do it, so I'd like you to show the same respect.


Since you have proven, once again, to be incapable of debate, I'll leave you with this.

I'm actually answering questions and providing sources. Isn't that what's done in a debate? Also, I'm not calling names, you are. And I don't believe that is done in debates.


Your view of Islam is based on a medium that cannot rise above the middle school level. That is not an insult of the medium: it is what the medium requires.

Actually Colonel West summed up the religion quite well. Did you watch that video link of him I provided?


End of my part of this debate, you disrespectful moron.

And even more name-calling from the liberals on this site. Aren't you above that? Can't you rise above middle school insults? ;)

bawang
07-27-2011, 10:21 AM
you right wingers are passive aggresive pusies. you have wet dreams about genocide but are too scared to embrace it.