1st powerlifting comp

[Frost]

so just back from my first comp, my goal was a 1000 total (actually my goal was not to miss all the lifts and look like an a$s lol) and i totalled 1067 with a personal best in the deadlift of 429, a PB in the bench of 286 and a pb in the squat of352, not great numbers but it was my first comp so happy with it, failed my final squat of 375 and the deadlift of 445.

great comp so really good guys there and my coach set a new masters record in the deadlift with a 616 lift.

[JamesC]

Congrats.

All respectable numbers, imo.

[Scott R. Brown]

Good Job Frost! Thank you for posting your totals for us to admire!:)

[viper]

Nice work.

[IronFist]

Nice job. All of those weights are higher than I've ever lifted :D

How much did you weigh?

[Frost]

chhers guys, weighed in at 102kg, washappy with my performance, my squat depth was fine it was standing up with the last lift that was a problem lo,

i know im weak but that can be worked on cant wait for the next one

[viper]

Frost u read tnation ? Dave tate has a good power lifting article on it atm.

[donjitsu2]

Frost,

Great job. Keep up the good work.

[IronFist]

chhers guys, weighed in at 102kg, washappy with my performance, my squat depth was fine it was standing up with the last lift that was a problem lo,

i know im weak but that can be worked on cant wait for the next one

For the Americans:

102 kilograms = 224.871507 pounds

[donbdc]

I am training for my first meet in October.
Here is a link from last friday w/ my coach Marty Gallagher.
We are in the same weight class working similiar numbers.

Good Luck!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMJyjOS_CaE
Don Berry

[David Jamieson]

weirdest boner right now...

j/k congrats on the pb's

[JamesC]

Frost,

I just want you to know that you gave me the "itch" to lift heavy again.

So, I joined a new gym in the area that is owned and operated by a friend of mine from high school. And, I started drinking my GOMAD(Gallon of Milk a Day) to get my weight and strength back up.

I'm shooting for a 400 squat this time and hopefully at least a 450 DL.

[Frost]

I am training for my first meet in October.
Here is a link from last friday w/ my coach Marty Gallagher.
We are in the same weight class working similiar numbers.

Good Luck!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMJyjOS_CaE
Don Berry

nice clip cheers!

[IronFist]

What kind of milk? 2%?

[JamesC]

2%? Pssshh...

Whole milk, my man.

It will be the second time i've been on the GOMAD diet. The first time I was able to put on 50 pounds of weight and weighed a LOT more than I ever have before.

It's obviously not something you want to do for very long, but it does get the job done. It's also incredibly helpful for recovery when you're doing linear progression every workout and every workout starts off with 3 sets of 5 on ass-to-grass squats.

[Frost]

so next comp is in 10 weeks

first really hard training session since the last comp, did 310 x 4 x 3 sets on the squat, 275 x 2 for 2 sets (both reps paused under command) and deadlifted 375 for 4 reps x 2 sets, all rep PBs so happy with the way training is going

[sanjuro_ronin]

Excellent number my man, excellent number indeed :)
Any muscle mass increase since you've been doing PL?

[Frost]

Excellent number my man, excellent number indeed :)
Any muscle mass increase since you've been doing PL?

well my backside has got bigger lol

honestly triceps are bigger, chest is deeper and the thighs are bigger, still weigh about the same but t-shirts are tighter lol

[sanjuro_ronin]

What routine are you doing?

[Frost]

What routine are you doing?

a made up one lol

i lift at the club twice a week, squat bench then deadlift both days

first day after warm ups i do three working sets for the squat and bench, 2 for the deadlift

second day i cut the volume so 2 working sets for SQ and bench 1 or 2 for DL if i feel like it

i follow a 4 week cycle

week 1 sets of 5 about 80% of my max, week 2 sets of three at 85%, week 3 sets of 2 at 90%, week 4 singles as high as i feel like going normally 95% or so

then an easy week and repeat trying to use heavier weights or do more reps, today should have been 3 reps but went for sets of 4 with the same weight instead, (bench was different was meant to get 255 for 3, got it for 4 reps so went for a heavy double)

once or twice a week at home i do heavy band pulling work to balance out the benching

[sanjuro_ronin]

a made up one lol

i lift at the club twice a week, squat bench then deadlift both days

first day after warm ups i do three working sets for the squat and bench, 2 for the deadlift

second day i cut the volume so 2 working sets for SQ and bench 1 or 2 for DL if i feel like it

i follow a 4 week cycle

week 1 sets of 5 about 80% of my max, week 2 sets of three at 85%, week 3 sets of 2 at 90%, week 4 singles as high as i feel like going normally 95% or so

then an easy week and repeat trying to use heavier weights or do more reps, today should have been 3 reps but went for sets of 4 with the same weight instead, (bench was different was meant to get 255 for 3, got it for 4 reps so went for a heavy double)

once or twice a week at home i do heavy band pulling work to balance out the benching

I always admire instinctive training that is sound and effective.

[Frost]

I always admire instinctive training that is sound and effective.

yep most of the guys i know there that are good have a routine but also go by instinct, the best lifter there never knows what hes lifting until he gets under the bar and sees how the first set feels, cant argue with him hes got way to many world records :)

[sanjuro_ronin]

yep most of the guys i know there that are good have a routine but also go by instinct, the best lifter there never knows what hes lifting until he gets under the bar and sees how the first set feels, cant argue with him hes got way to many world records :)

Never done PL and I was contemplating seeing what numbers I can put up.
I don't BP so I would h ave to start doing it again....
Right now my squat is 320 for 5 and DL is 330 for 6 at a BW of 176lbs.

[Frost]

Never done PL and I was contemplating seeing what numbers I can put up.
I don't BP so I would h ave to start doing it again....
Right now my squat is 320 for 5 and DL is 330 for 6 at a BW of 176lbs.

i had to start deadlifting again when i took it up, give it a go its fun :)

You're a strong guy we both now that, and mentally you are tough too, your would do well.

Thats the hard part i find the mental side of it, doing a really heavy single rep, knowing it might staple you to the floor, saw a lifting partner come mentally undone on the squat at my last comp, just couldnt go low enought for fear of not standing up

[JamesC]

Just as an aside, I know of a few really good programs that ALWAYS produce really good results.

For someone that is detrained, or has never lifted before, Starting Strength is amazing. He has one book called Starting Strength and another called Practical Programming, which is pretty much essential for anyone that is doing some type of progression on lifts, i.e. adding weight progressively to get stronger. It covers novice, intermediate, and advanced lifters. It's a book I would recommend to anyone that plans to lift for any amount of time.

For someone who has already passed their novice progression, the Texas Method works wonders as well.

Just some stuff for you guys to look at if you know anyone looking for a set program that is guaranteed to work.

[sanjuro_ronin]

i had to start deadlifting again when i took it up, give it a go its fun :)

You're a strong guy we both now that, and mentally you are tough too, your would do well.

Thats the hard part i find the mental side of it, doing a really heavy single rep, knowing it might staple you to the floor, saw a lifting partner come mentally undone on the squat at my last comp, just couldnt go low enought for fear of not standing up

I train at home so the BP is tricky since I don't have a spotter and my squat rack is not ideal for it, but I will figure something out.
I am going to start a cycle of dedicated cardio for 4 weeks and I think that after that I may go the PL routine, just to see what is what.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Just as an aside, I know of a few really good programs that ALWAYS produce really good results.

For someone that is detrained, or has never lifted before, Starting Strength is amazing. He has one book called Starting Strength and another called Practical Programming, which is pretty much essential for anyone that is doing some type of progression on lifts, i.e. adding weight progressively to get stronger. It covers novice, intermediate, and advanced lifters. It's a book I would recommend to anyone that plans to lift for any amount of time.

For someone who has already passed their novice progression, the Texas Method works wonders as well.

Just some stuff for you guys to look at if you know anyone looking for a set program that is guaranteed to work.

I am not a huge fan of the LONG rest periods between sets in the Texas method.

[Frost]

Just as an aside, I know of a few really good programs that ALWAYS produce really good results.

For someone that is detrained, or has never lifted before, Starting Strength is amazing. He has one book called Starting Strength and another called Practical Programming, which is pretty much essential for anyone that is doing some type of progression on lifts, i.e. adding weight progressively to get stronger. It covers novice, intermediate, and advanced lifters. It's a book I would recommend to anyone that plans to lift for any amount of time.

For someone who has already passed their novice progression, the Texas Method works wonders as well.

Just some stuff for you guys to look at if you know anyone looking for a set program that is guaranteed to work.

cheers always like riptoes stuff

[JamesC]

When you're lifting heavy, you need the long rest periods(upwards of 5 minutes) in order to get your next set finished.

That's the thing. Every time you go in to the gym you're lifts should be trying for a new personal record at 5 reps. It should be that hard.

[Frost]

I train at home so the BP is tricky since I don't have a spotter and my squat rack is not ideal for it, but I will figure something out.
I am going to start a cycle of dedicated cardio for 4 weeks and I think that after that I may go the PL routine, just to see what is what.

ive done bottom position presses off pins before, not ideal but safe without a spotter

[sanjuro_ronin]

When you're lifting heavy, you need the long rest periods(upwards of 5 minutes) in order to get your next set finished.

That's the thing. Every time you go in to the gym you're lifts should be trying for a new personal record at 5 reps. It should be that hard.

I do the 5x5 with 60 seconds between sets.
With 5 min rests I would spend half an hour on just one exercise and I don't have the schedule for it.
Heck, a 5 min rest would make me have to warm up all over again, LOL !!
;)

[Frost]

I do the 5x5 with 60 seconds between sets.
With 5 min rests I would spend half an hour on just one exercise and I don't have the schedule for it.
Heck, a 5 min rest would make me have to warm up all over again, LOL !!
;)

i normally rest when spotting for others, which means nice long rests when the gyms full, and fing fast workouts when theres only a few of us :eek:

[JamesC]

I do the 5x5 with 60 seconds between sets.
With 5 min rests I would spend half an hour on just one exercise and I don't have the schedule for it.
Heck, a 5 min rest would make me have to warm up all over again, LOL !!
;)

If you can do that, sure.

I'd be more than a little scared to only rest 60 seconds when i'm doing a PR every workout without a spotter. Doesn't seem safe.

[JamesC]

Looked this up for you today Sanjuro.

This is an exerpt from "Practical Programming for Strength Training; Second Edition" by Mark Rippetoe and Lon Kilgore.

"Rest Between Sets

The time between sets is an important variable in workout configuration. Several exercise organizations recommend 30 seconds to 2 minutes between sets. This also varies with the goal of the training program. If strength gains are the primary training objective, rests of greater than 2 minutes are not only okay but necessary. While partial recovery from anaerobic exercise is rapid (50% of ATP/CP stores recover in 3 to 5 seconds), complete recovery doesn't occur for three to seven minutes, depending on several individual factors such as the intensity of the set, the fatigue and nutritional status of the lifter, as well as the trainee's age, the temperature of the facility, and injury status. Competitive strength and power athletes are often instructed to use rests of much greater than two minutes. In contrast, if muscle hypertrophy is the only concern, rests of 45 seconds or less are best. There seems to be a link (although not necessarily a causal relationship) between lactic acid production from resistance exercise, hormonal status, and increases in muscle mass. Between-set rests of about 45 seconds would be optimal in maintaining this relationship. If a training regimen is undertaken to increase muscular endurance, very little, if any, rest should be taken between the sets of different exercises."

Emphasis mine.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

So, in essence, if you're wanting to get into competitive strength training, you really should increase your rest times for optimal recovery for work sets.

Just some reading FYI. These two guys really know what they're talking about when it comes to strength training.

[YouKnowWho]

My teacher always said, "You should dominate the weight and don't let the weight to dominate you". He told me that there was a weight bar in his teacher's house. It was so heavy that everytime he saw it, he hated it. He also said that if I don't "enjoy" my work out, I may quit someday.

I don't work on heavy weight any more. I find the right amount of weight that make me feel challenge but still love to do it. I spend 3 hours and 3 times a week just on weight. As long as I can't find any fat on my body, that's good enough for me.

I still run 4 miles 3 times a week. Also I no longer care about my speed but enjoy the scenario along my jocking track.

[JamesC]

Heavy weight is more mental than physical, like Frost was saying. That's one of the best parts, though. You get stronger mentally as well as physically.

"If you want to get strong, do hard sh1t."

[YouKnowWho]

Will you still enjoy of doing it when you are 80 years old? What's the value that oneday you just quit what you are doing and never pick up weight again. I'm talking about life long commitment here and not just get excited about it of a short period of time. I have seen so many people got excited about weight training, push themselves to the limit, quite several years later, and then move into something else.

Another attitude that's also important is don't get total exhausted. You stop when your body still want to do more. This way, you will always look forward to your next day training session.

Try to "enjoy" while you are doing it is a very important attitude in TCMA training. You train because you "love" to do it and not because you "have" to do it. That's the Chinese way to look at weight training anyway. I have trained weight for the past 40 years and still "enjoy" of doing it. I must be doing something right.

[JamesC]

I never said you were doing anything wrong John.

There are different reasons for lifting weight, though. Just like anything else, there's a myriad of reasons for wanting to lift heavy.

A personal challenge, competition, increasing strength, etc.

Just because you stop lifting heavy one day doesn't you mean you stop lifting entirely. You can switch to a different program more suited to your needs. Endurance, size, specific exercises, sport-oriented lifting.

Just like in martial arts, your intentions can change over time. Heavy lifting is undoubtedly a young man's endeavor(to an extent, although they do have Masters lifting), but lifting is something you can do until the day you die.

Just ask Jack Lalanne.

[YouKnowWho]

Heavy lifting is undoubtedly a young man's endeavor.
I still have a huge rock that I used to lift that sits next to my driveway. After my wife had some spinal disk damage that's irreversible (she wrestled with a strong guy), I no longer play with that rock.

It's always good to be young. :(

[Frost]

one of my coaches is in his 70's beat cancer and still benches over body weight deadlifts over twice bodyweight and has been in the game for half a century, my other coach is 60 and recently deadlifted over 600 pounds in competition, just saying for some its a lifelong thing just as martial arts is for others

[IronFist]

Heavy lifting is undoubtedly a young man's endeavor

Disagree.

I think some of the world records are held by guys in their 40s (unless that's what you meant by "young").


but lifting is something you can do until the day you die.

Agreed.

And even so, it's about being stronger than you would otherwise be. A guy in this 50s who still lifts might not be as strong as he was when he was lifting in his 30s, but he's still stronger than he would be if he didn't lift.

At the end of the day, it's about competing with and improving yourself.

[JamesC]

I didn't mean that you can't lift heavy when you're older, only that it seems to be MOSTLY young guys that are even interested in it.

Besides, I DID mention the Masters division. :p

[sanjuro_ronin]

Looked this up for you today Sanjuro.

This is an exerpt from "Practical Programming for Strength Training; Second Edition" by Mark Rippetoe and Lon Kilgore.

"Rest Between Sets

The time between sets is an important variable in workout configuration. Several exercise organizations recommend 30 seconds to 2 minutes between sets. This also varies with the goal of the training program. If strength gains are the primary training objective, rests of greater than 2 minutes are not only okay but necessary. While partial recovery from anaerobic exercise is rapid (50% of ATP/CP stores recover in 3 to 5 seconds), complete recovery doesn't occur for three to seven minutes, depending on several individual factors such as the intensity of the set, the fatigue and nutritional status of the lifter, as well as the trainee's age, the temperature of the facility, and injury status. Competitive strength and power athletes are often instructed to use rests of much greater than two minutes. In contrast, if muscle hypertrophy is the only concern, rests of 45 seconds or less are best. There seems to be a link (although not necessarily a causal relationship) between lactic acid production from resistance exercise, hormonal status, and increases in muscle mass. Between-set rests of about 45 seconds would be optimal in maintaining this relationship. If a training regimen is undertaken to increase muscular endurance, very little, if any, rest should be taken between the sets of different exercises."

Emphasis mine.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

So, in essence, if you're wanting to get into competitive strength training, you really should increase your rest times for optimal recovery for work sets.

Just some reading FYI. These two guys really know what they're talking about when it comes to strength training.



Thanks dude :)

[JamesC]

No prob. Can't recommend that book enough. Should be a staple in every serious lifter's library.

[donbdc]

Another great book on power lifting!
http://www.dragondoor.com/shop-by-department/books/b37/

Purposefully Primative by Marty Gallagher. Lots of great stories from the legends and their training strategies.

Don Berry

[SavvySavage]

I do the 5x5 with 60 seconds between sets.
With 5 min rests I would spend half an hour on just one exercise and I don't have the schedule for it.
Heck, a 5 min rest would make me have to warm up all over again, LOL !!
;)

What JamesC states about 5 minute rest periods is in line with how I lift. I agree with Pavel Tatsuione's "Power to the People" method. Do 5 sets for 5 cross a piece with 3-5 minute rests in-between.

You have a valid point about spending a half hour on one exercise being a long time but not if that one exercise is your only lift. Deadlifting, for example, uses all the muscles in your body and exercise them in a way that the whole body gets strengthened at the same time. Contrast this with separating muscle groups and developing uncoordinated separate strength.

Pavel's point is that you only need one or two whole body exercises to strengthen your entire body. You take a 5 minute break in-between sets so that you don't go to failure and fatigue your body. Lifting should build the base you need to become accomplished at martia arts. Martial art training is where you're supposed to kill your body to the point of crying and throwing up.

I get into the gym and get out in under 40 minute while other guys spend hours working out. On off days I do variety like body weight exercises, kettelbells, etc. My main strength training comes from deadlifting in the manner I just described.

[Scott R. Brown]

Sanjuro, try doing two or three excercises at a time with 1-2 mins rest between sets. I have found that 4 can be too much, but done up to 6 at a time before. With lots of rest and 3 reps per exercise you can get a lot done in a shorter period of time.


When I do 3 I usually do Legs, (Squat or Deads) Pulling Exercise (Chins, Pullup or Row), and a Pushing Exercise (Flat or Incline Bench, Dips, Standing Clean and Press).

I haven't really had trouble with fatigue even when i go for 8-10 sets per exercise. I usually use 1:30 rest but towards the end I'll go to 2:00 rest if I am going exceptionally heavy.

When I do 2 exercises I pair chest with back and legs with shoulders.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Scott and Savage,
Excellent points, thanks for the advice.
I was contemplating a routine like this:

Day 1) Squats, overhead press, and a "complimentary" exercise ( maybe shoulder work, maybe tricep)
Day 2) Bench, DL's, and a complimentary one like chins or curls....

That way I can do more weight on the "BIG" exercise and get more rest in.

[Frost]

If you are going to do that id suggest adding in some rowing exercises to balance out the pressing stuff, that my biggest bone of contention with pavels stuff, only doing two movements is a recipe for building imbalances, I also think his whole anti squat stance is flawed but hey hoe

If you still want to do other lifts as well simply add them on a third day, do them circuit fashion with lightish weights and you can work conditioning, rehab and complimentary stuff all together

As for the whole rest between sets stuff, you are a well conditioned athlete so your recovery time will probably be less than most peoples, and whilst its true complete recovery takes 3-5 minutes, 90% or so happens under the two minute mark so I wouldn’t worry too much

[sanjuro_ronin]

Since we talked about it on this thread I decided to continue on this one:

My new ST routine is to be as follows:

A) Squats
Bench Press
Chins

B) Deadlifts
Overhead press
Curls

The one thing I have not decided 100% on is the rep scheme so I am asking for suggestions:

5x5 on the Sq, BP, DL and OP, with 3 x 8 on chins and curls
The 5X5 I am divided between these two:

The 5X5 that is 2 warm up sets of 5 reps, followed by 3 working sets of 5 reps with the same weight, adding weight when you can do all 3 work sets for 5 reps.
OR
A progressive:
2 warm up sets of 5, weight increasing
3rd set 5 reps
4th set 3 reps with more weight
5th set 2 reps with more weight

Thoughts?

[Frost]

id ramp it up over 8 weeks, three working sets of 7 the first week, then sets of 6 the second, sets of 5 the next, week 4 id hit some singles but keep the sets low, week 5 sets of three, week 6 heavy doubles week 7 singles, week 8 rest and week 9 heavy singles and see what your max is

but thats just me:)

[Brule]

Since we talked about it on this thread I decided to continue on this one:

My new ST routine is to be as follows:

A) Squats
Bench Press
Chins

B) Deadlifts
Overhead press
Curls

The one thing I have not decided 100% on is the rep scheme so I am asking for suggestions:

5x5 on the Sq, BP, DL and OP, with 3 x 8 on chins and curls
The 5X5 I am divided between these two:

The 5X5 that is 2 warm up sets of 5 reps, followed by 3 working sets of 5 reps with the same weight, adding weight when you can do all 3 work sets for 5 reps.
OR
A progressive:
2 warm up sets of 5, weight increasing
3rd set 5 reps
4th set 3 reps with more weight
5th set 2 reps with more weight

Thoughts?

You doing this at home? if so, you got a squat rack and a spotter for the bench press?

[sanjuro_ronin]

id ramp it up over 8 weeks, three working sets of 7 the first week, then sets of 6 the second, sets of 5 the next, week 4 id hit some singles but keep the sets low, week 5 sets of three, week 6 heavy doubles week 7 singles, week 8 rest and week 9 heavy singles and see what your max is

but thats just me:)

Interesting...the work sets are constant weight?

[sanjuro_ronin]

You doing this at home? if so, you got a squat rack and a spotter for the bench press?

Of course :)

[Frost]

Interesting...the work sets are constant weight?

yep i work the % off my current 1 rep max, then i do multipul warm up sets until my top weight, 2 or 3 sets with that weight and then a few warm downs sets

[sanjuro_ronin]

yep i work the % off my current 1 rep max, then i do multipul warm up sets until my top weight, 2 or 3 sets with that weight and then a few warm downs sets

Typically the 80 - 85% or more?
So you pyramid UP and then down, right?
Beyond the whole "building the neuro-muscular pathway" thing , what is the point of the downward pyramiding?

[Frost]

Typically the 80 - 85% or more?
So you pyramid UP and then down, right?
Beyond the whole "building the neuro-muscular pathway" thing , what is the point of the downward pyramiding?

when i did this type of training week 1 was 70%, then 75% then 80 in week 3, week four was singles, week 5 triples at 85 %, week 6 doubles with 90% then singles in week 7, so from 70% up to 100% at the end of the cycle

At the moment because im doing the powerlifting thing im following a four week condensed version (so i get to do more singles) , week 1 sets of 5 with 80% or so, then sets of 3 next week with 85%, doubles with 90% then singles then reset with new max's, if i make them that is

I find the higher sets build the strength and the singles let me get used to the new heavy weight, if that makes sense

On the squat i downward pyramid to get some extra reps in and grove my technique, o the bench i do it just because everyone else does, i think its just to get some blood in the muscles, i dont do it on the deadlift

[IronFist]

If you are going to do that id suggest adding in some rowing exercises to balance out the pressing stuff, that my biggest bone of contention with pavels stuff, only doing two movements is a recipe for building imbalances, I also think his whole anti squat stance is flawed but hey hoe

If you still want to do other lifts as well simply add them on a third day, do them circuit fashion with lightish weights and you can work conditioning, rehab and complimentary stuff all together

As for the whole rest between sets stuff, you are a well conditioned athlete so your recovery time will probably be less than most peoples, and whilst its true complete recovery takes 3-5 minutes, 90% or so happens under the two minute mark so I wouldn’t worry too much

Pavel doesn't hate squatting, I think he was just a bit heavy on that kind of thing when he came out because his shtick was "anti-bodybuilding."

I've talked with Pavel before about doing squats and he was cool with them.

He's also written squat specific articles, I believe one was called "pins into pillars" or something like that. And there's a whole section on quad exercises in his book Beyond Bodybuilding.

I've done squats with Pavel's protocol many times and it works great.

I also agree that 2 exercises isn't really enough for the serious weight lifter, but it's better than most most non-weight lifters get.

His two are also better than most people's two: bench and biceps. Beach muscles!

[Frost]

Pavel doesn't hate squatting, I think he was just a bit heavy on that kind of thing when he came out because his shtick was "anti-bodybuilding."

I've talked with Pavel before about doing squats and he was cool with them.

He's also written squat specific articles, I believe one was called "pins into pillars" or something like that. And there's a whole section on quad exercises in his book Beyond Bodybuilding.

I've done squats with Pavel's protocol many times and it works great.

I also agree that 2 exercises isn't really enough for the serious weight lifter, but it's better than most most non-weight lifters get.

His two are also better than most people's two: bench and biceps. Beach muscles!

he changes his mind whenever he sees a marketing and money making opportunity, doesnt change the fact when he came out he was against the squat as being oo technical, and more dangerous than the deadlift

[IronFist]

he changes his mind whenever he sees a marketing and money making opportunity, doesnt change the fact when he came out he was against the squat as being oo technical, and more dangerous than the deadlift

Sure, for people with no previous training who are working out at home in their basement, which is pretty much who Power to the People was aimed at.

Squat is more dangerous than deadlift. Or at least, it's a more technical lift.

[Frost]

Sure, for people with no previous training who are working out at home in their basement, which is pretty much who Power to the People was aimed at.

Squat is more dangerous than deadlift. Or at least, it's a more technical lift.
so people with no previous training would be safer trying to deadlift twice bodyweight with no coaching...ive seen more injuries from deadlifting than squatting

no its not, they are both technical lifts that require coaching, and correct form at all times saying one is more dangerous than the other is silly

[donbdc]

Curious I have never heard Pavel say that. Not saying he hasn't but I'd like to see it, so I can ask him.
Also I agree with Frost, the DL and Squat are both very technical. I feel like after 2 yrs of training I did my first good set of DL's last week. I did 350 for 3 and felt very solid, not a PR but my best form. Will post some clips of todays DL's later.

Don Berry

[IronFist]

so people with no previous training would be safer trying to deadlift twice bodyweight with no coaching...ive seen more injuries from deadlifting than squatting

What person with no previous training is deadlifting twice their bodyweight?


no its not, they are both technical lifts that require coaching, and correct form at all times saying one is more dangerous than the other is silly

All I said was that DL is less complex than squatting. It's also safer. If something goes wrong while deadlifting, just drop the bar. If something goes wrong squatting, at best you can drop the bar behind you and have the safety bars catch it, and at worst it's going to push you down and further out of position (possible injury) as it falls on top of you.

Teaching someone proper DL form is also easier than teaching them proper squat form, not to mention most people don't even have the required flexibility to squat correctly when they start anyway.

[Frost]

What person with no previous training is deadlifting twice their bodyweight?



All I said was that DL is less complex than squatting. It's also safer. If something goes wrong while deadlifting, just drop the bar. If something goes wrong squatting, at best you can drop the bar behind you and have the safety bars catch it, and at worst it's going to push you down and further out of position (possible injury) as it falls on top of you.

Teaching someone proper DL form is also easier than teaching them proper squat form, not to mention most people don't even have the required flexibility to squat correctly when they start anyway.

its near impossible to get people to use the legs and not the back when DL heavy thats where the injuries happen, as soon as the weight goes up they use their back and not their legs and muscle it up

Its not less complex its as complex, people who say differently usually havent been taught properly or ever really trained heavy on the deadlift
The reason so many people sumo deadlift in comps is because of the risk of injury and the technical nature of the lift, there are other reasons too but they are good ones

ues for the deadlift are as many as the cues given on the squat

[sanjuro_ronin]

It's a toss up.
I have noticed that it depends on the individual.
Some are natural squatters and others are natural DL's.
BOTH require excellent form.
Injury-wise, that's a tough one....
I mean you are suppose to squat in a rack so IF you miss it, the potential for injury isn't that great.
I have seen some people really **** up their backs and shoulder on DL's.
I've also seen people hurt themselves on squats and BP too, overheads too.

Typically the injuries are more ego driven than exercise driven.

[donbdc]

Sanjuro is right, it is a very individual thing. The squat is easy for me my DL form is a struggle. It drives me crazy! The sumo is what I started I started with, but again I started with Kettbells and moved to the bar later.
Kirk Karwaski and Marty Gallagher conducted a seminar in Philly last spring. The big message again and again was develop proper technique, trust proper structure and when you fail fail with integrity!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oo1tU1YqPp0

Don Berry