Cardio Advice

[Darthlawyer]

I'm working with a group of guys training for a kickboxing rule set, amateur rules 2 minute rounds. I'm curious if the MMA guys here have a perspective on what they've seen the most impact with personally in training for endurance. I know people who swear by road work, in terms of at least a few miles a day. Others swear by interval type training, particularly hill sprints. What have those of you who actually train to fight competitively noticed in terms of keeping from getting gassed a few minutes into fights?

My inclination is to mix it up a bit, though I've been focusing on some long distance roadwork in a very hilly environment (I've got a long run straight uphill from my house, and I'm just using what's nearby).

[Frost]

how far out are they from the comp? whats the number of rounds they are doing how often do they train?

[HumbleWCGuy]

Sounds like your road work is probably fine. I always liked to run for about an hour. I strongly suggest that you try not to run on the street if you can help it. Interval is probably the best for most people, but you will find out what you like. At your level, just straight jogging is good. In my opinion, the road work is the base of everything. When I was a little older (late twenties), I started biking for about an hour per day too. It's how I got to the gym and back.

As a rule of thumb. No matter what, pads, bags, mitts, shadowboxing, clinching, partner drills , or sparring I would usually do them for 3 minute rounds for 3 or 4 rounds with a minute of rest. A good mitt/pad holder should help you to get pretty conditioned. Repetitive kicking drills also work.

If you don't have sparring partners who are in shape, get guys to trade off on you. I try to spar for double the rounds of the actual competition. I would try to keep from doing the heavy bag more than 3 times per week.

I have seen a lot of configurations of plans. I assume that you are asking because you don't have a lot of help. You will have to decide for yourself. just figure something that is about an hour 4 times per week or 1.5 hours 3 times per week. Don't worry about doing too much. In an hour you have 15 round-slots, that you can configure. I suggest always starting out with some shadow boxing or rope skipping or both. You decide. Whatever you do, try to be creative. Dont' do the same workout every day. use a round timer and just move from station to station. If you have multiple guys just set up a circuit of stations for guys to run through. http://www.amazon.com/Title-Boxing-Everlast-Round-Timer/dp/B0029U3DI0/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1311537788&sr=8-5



I also suggest adding some weight lifting at least twice per week. Do the legs and low back stuff on your last training day. You don't want to be running and hopping around when your back needs to be rested.

[Darthlawyer]

how far out are they from the comp? whats the number of rounds they are doing how often do they train?
There's some minor competitions within the next few months, but we're really focusing for a tournament about 1 year out.

[Frost]

if you are a year out id suggest doing what humble said well almost (gasp we agree)

Build the base first with some road work, id suggest if they are unfit starting them with 30 minutes twice a week and working up to an hour 3 or 4 times a week, the pace should be jogging pace, so their heart rates stay between 125 and 150bpm this should result in a drop in their resting heart rate of about 5-10 beats over 2 months. Ramp it up slowly week by week by 5 minutes or so, add a third day a few weeks in and a fourth day a month in. thats the cardiac adoption part sorted, ie it will increase the size of the left ventricale in the heart so they can get more blood and oxgyen into the body with each breath, which means they will be able to perform longer and stronger

Also add some hill sprints in, keep the sprints under 10 seconds, and rest about a minute between sprints (until their heart rates are about 130bpm) then go again start with 15 sets and work up to 20 sets, do this once or twice a week this will work on their aerobic power, how much power they can produce before going lactic.

I wouldnt bother with too much lactic ie hard intervals until close to the comps, build the aerobic base first and let their class work take care of the lactic side of it

[HumbleWCGuy]

I should also add that if you or the guys need a lot of instruction, I would do that before hand so that you you can keep a brisk pace for an hour of your evening training sessions. If you want to increase the intensity of your evenings, just do more intense exercises and calisthenics at the end. Make sure to get in your protein. It will make a huge difference in your training.

[Darthlawyer]

Oh, they're pretty fit to begin with. I'm just trying to figure out which would be the best benefit over the long term.

[HumbleWCGuy]

Oh, they're pretty fit to begin with. I'm just trying to figure out which would be the best benefit over the long term.

Over a long period of time, you need to periodize their training. Volume, content, intensity,frequency, order, and type of exercises need to vary based on when your guys want to compete. You would like to peak at a competition, but one tick past peak is over trained and injured.

When a fighter goes to "camp," it's time to peak.

[Dragonzbane76]

Volume, content, intensity,frequency, order, and type of exercises need to vary based on when your guys want to compete. You would like to peak at a competition, but one tick past peak is over trained and injured.

When a fighter goes to "camp," it's time to peak.

agree with this. would add that a week out from the time of comp. I would slow down dramatically. Let the body build up it's natural abilities.

[HumbleWCGuy]

agree with this. would add that a week out from the time of comp. I would slow down dramatically. Let the body build up it's natural abilities.

I have heard coaches of other sports say no to that, but I always took some rest. And, I always needed the rest.

[Darthlawyer]

Sounds like your road work is probably fine. I always liked to run for about an hour. I strongly suggest that you try not to run on the street if you can help it. Interval is probably the best for most people, but you will find out what you like. At your level, just straight jogging is good. In my opinion, the road work is the base of everything. When I was a little older (late twenties), I started biking for about an hour per day too. It's how I got to the gym and back.

As a rule of thumb. No matter what, pads, bags, mitts, shadowboxing, clinching, partner drills , or sparring I would usually do them for 3 minute rounds for 3 or 4 rounds with a minute of rest. A good mitt/pad holder should help you to get pretty conditioned. Repetitive kicking drills also work.

If you don't have sparring partners who are in shape, get guys to trade off on you. I try to spar for double the rounds of the actual competition. I would try to keep from doing the heavy bag more than 3 times per week.

I have seen a lot of configurations of plans. I assume that you are asking because you don't have a lot of help. You will have to decide for yourself. just figure something that is about an hour 4 times per week or 1.5 hours 3 times per week. Don't worry about doing too much. In an hour you have 15 round-slots, that you can configure. I suggest always starting out with some shadow boxing or rope skipping or both. You decide. Whatever you do, try to be creative. Dont' do the same workout every day. use a round timer and just move from station to station. If you have multiple guys just set up a circuit of stations for guys to run through. http://www.amazon.com/Title-Boxing-Everlast-Round-Timer/dp/B0029U3DI0/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1311537788&sr=8-5



I also suggest adding some weight lifting at least twice per week. Do the legs and low back stuff on your last training day. You don't want to be running and hopping around when your back needs to be rested.

We've got a pretty good routine for the days we're together as a group (roughly 3x a week) for intense pad work, kick shield, thai pads, etc. Typically we do a 3 or so rounds of each, some two person punch, catch, parry drills, and then an intense conditioning matrix consisting of various body-weight type exercises.

Mostly I'm interested in supplementing our group activities with stuff we can do on our own time, since we're all professionals with relatively busy schedules. However, most of us are working on doing 2 a day type training. I was mostly curious as to if anyone's noticed a marked difference, performance-wise, with emphasizing either type of exercise.

I often hear people nowadays talking about VO2 maxing type exercises, whereas all the old school boxers I know and have read up on emphasize traditional road work. Mostly curious if anyone's tried both to see if they noticed any substantive difference.

[HumbleWCGuy]

We've got a pretty good routine for the days we're together as a group (roughly 3x a week) for intense pad work, kick shield, thai pads, etc. Typically we do a 3 or so rounds of each, some two person punch, catch, parry drills, and then an intense conditioning matrix consisting of various body-weight type exercises.

Mostly I'm interested in supplementing our group activities with stuff we can do on our own time, since we're all professionals with relatively busy schedules. However, most of us are working on doing 2 a day type training. I was mostly curious as to if anyone's noticed a marked difference, performance-wise, with emphasizing either type of exercise.

I often hear people nowadays talking about VO2 maxing type exercises, whereas all the old school boxers I know and have read up on emphasize traditional road work. Mostly curious if anyone's tried both to see if they noticed any substantive difference.
I haven't read that research. I am fairly old school I guess. have you considered altitude training? For example:

http://www.hypoxico.com/

[Darthlawyer]

Well, I find that most anything in the fitness world tends to be fad/advertising based. For example, in weight lifting, the tradition of doing 3 sets of 6-12 reps as standard first started when Arnold Schwarzenneger (sp?) stated in an interview that's what he did. Of course, he didn't mention the steriods and other such "supplements". Now, my training partner swears by body-weight exercises (pushups of various types, squats of various types) with the belief that it creates more "functional strength". Personally, after trying both, I find that mixing in some weight training, on machines at my local gym, I feel like I'm getting better results (I tend to favor fewer sets, lower weight and high reps).

Frankly, to some extent I think many people are looking for some kind of "magic bullet" when it comes to training. Basically, the people who get more out tend to be the people who put more into it. But I'm open minded to the idea that there might be a smarter way to work, rather than harder.

[HumbleWCGuy]

Nice post. A wise man once told me, "It all works!" Just get in there and do something. If you just work hard you will end up in tremendous shape.

Fads... LOL... A lot of what happens today is to repackage old stuff. P90X uses the new fangled idea of muscle confusion. Nearly all kettle bell exercises can be don with a simple dumbbell.

The closer I get to a fight the more calisthenics that I would do and the less weights.

[Darthlawyer]

Muscle confusion strikes me as fairly obviously incorrect. However, the idea of mixing up exercises, so that you can train harder (because you aren't sore from over-use) I'd find believable.

[Frost]

We've got a pretty good routine for the days we're together as a group (roughly 3x a week) for intense pad work, kick shield, thai pads, etc. Typically we do a 3 or so rounds of each, some two person punch, catch, parry drills, and then an intense conditioning matrix consisting of various body-weight type exercises.

Mostly I'm interested in supplementing our group activities with stuff we can do on our own time, since we're all professionals with relatively busy schedules. However, most of us are working on doing 2 a day type training. I was mostly curious as to if anyone's noticed a marked difference, performance-wise, with emphasizing either type of exercise.

I often hear people nowadays talking about VO2 maxing type exercises, whereas all the old school boxers I know and have read up on emphasize traditional road work. Mostly curious if anyone's tried both to see if they noticed any substantive difference.

VO2 work is in vogue in the UFC as is heavy interval work, and how many fighters in the UFC gas in the first round, round work is used by thai boxers the world over and when did you last see a thai gas?

Its not that simple i know but the fact is most of your training should be aerobic and you sould us intervals etc only for a short space of time close to the fight

ALso VO2 is only one measure of aerobic fitness, anf not the most important one at that