any comments on this xingyi clip?

[rett]

I know close-on zilch about xingyi. Can someone tell me what I'm seeing? Some of my initial questions are stuff like, one thing that strikes me immediately is that there's something very ego-free about it. It's not theatrical or show-offy. That appeals to me a lot. Is the guy performing extra slow or clearly as a teacher might do if letting a student film him to take the clip home as a reference for practice?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1ammWzpws4

[rett]

Comments with google-translate

顶二楼的，完全练岔了
zzyy2046 1 year ago
Top floor, complete training fork [what does this mean?]

真的很厲害阿
A really powerful
imnewmaster 1 year ago

用了上半身彈抖，但下半身結構力沒有和上面整合，前進時的動能，*沒有連到拳頭上，所以命中目標時，就是手 臂加上腰的彈抖力，而不*是全身整力
Playing with the upper body shaking, but not lower body strength and structural integration of the above, when the forward momentum, not connected to the fist, so hit the target, that is shaking the arm strength with the elastic waist, rather than the whole body force [I can't tell if this is describing the right mechanics or if it's a criticism]
kamiu65 1 year ago 2

求此人背景~~看了这么多，终于找到个真正的高手了！！
The person seeking the background ~ ~ read so much, finally found a true master of the! !

KongfuTerran 4 months ago

[SPJ]

yes, he is expressing tan dou li or springy shaking/vibrating whole body force.

1. the back and neck not straight. he probably leaned the head/neck down to watch his hand moves.

2. the stepping from legs are loose or stance is not there.

3. depending on the palm posture, some are penetrating or piercing power like a spear, not all of them are shaking powers

---

most important of all the hands and postures have to be tight before and after moving.

your eyes are looking at forward as if the opponent is in front of you and not looking down on the ground

nose, lead hand and lead foot aligned or san jian xiang zhao.

sitting on hip, then the spine is naturally aligned and neck suspended upright.

or head has to be supporting or erecting toward the sky, tou ding xuan.

---

[omarthefish]

Comments with google-translate

顶二楼的，完全练岔了
zzyy2046 1 year ago
Top floor, complete training fork [what does this mean?]
The comment "top floor" was google translate's attempt at translating an internet slang used to refer to another poster's comment. Problem is, there is not enough context to tell who he is referring to here.




用了上半身彈抖，但下半身結構力沒有和上面整合，前進時的動能，*沒有連到拳頭上，所以命中目標時，就是手 臂加上腰的彈抖力，而不*是全身整力
Playing with the upper body shaking, but not lower body strength and structural integration of the above, when the forward momentum, not connected to the fist, so hit the target, that is shaking the arm strength with the elastic waist, rather than the whole body force [I can't tell if this is describing the right mechanics or if it's a criticism]
It's a critique. He is saying that the guy has really good power in the upper body but that his top half is not linked well to his bottom half. The poster is saying that the power is only from the waist up. He says that, ideally, the power being expressed here could be improved if the performer did a better job of linking his leg power to his upper body power through the waist.

[Hendrik]

I know close-on zilch about xingyi. Can someone tell me what I'm seeing? Some of my initial questions are stuff like, one thing that strikes me immediately is that there's something very ego-free about it. It's not theatrical or show-offy. That appeals to me a lot. Is the guy performing extra slow or clearly as a teacher might do if letting a student film him to take the clip home as a reference for practice?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1ammWzpws4


for me,
This is a high hand and real deal.

[Hendrik]

The comment "top floor" was google translate's attempt at translating an internet slang used to refer to another poster's comment. Problem is, there is not enough context to tell who he is referring to here.


It's a critique. He is saying that the guy has really good power in the upper body but that his top half is not linked well to his bottom half. The poster is saying that the power is only from the waist up. He says that, ideally, the power being expressed here could be improved if the performer did a better job of linking his leg power to his upper body power through the waist.



In my opinion, this critics is not precise.

the person who is criticizing missed the action.

in the youtube, the perfomer do used his bottom half to power his strike.

[donjitsu2]

I know close-on zilch about xingyi. Can someone tell me what I'm seeing? Some of my initial questions are stuff like, one thing that strikes me immediately is that there's something very ego-free about it. It's not theatrical or show-offy. That appeals to me a lot. Is the guy performing extra slow or clearly as a teacher might do if letting a student film him to take the clip home as a reference for practice?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1ammWzpws4


Well...you're seeing the linking fist sequence which is a popular intermediate form.

I don't think I've ever seen the form performed in this way.

The movements themselves have some good "snap" to them, but they are very tight. I don't think there is a full extension of any movement during the entire performance.

I believe that this is a guy who specializes in delivering power from a close range - as his form seems to suggest.

Here's more of a 'wushu' version of the form:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAnb9mpRjHc


Train Hard,
Josh Skinner

[Hendrik]

Well...you're seeing the linking fist sequence which is a popular intermediate form.

I don't think I've ever seen the form performed in this way.

The movements themselves have some good "snap" to them, but they are very tight. I don't think there is a full extension of any movement during the entire performance.

I believe that this is a guy who specializes in delivering power from a close range - as his form seems to suggest.

Here's more of a 'wushu' version of the form:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAnb9mpRjHc


Train Hard,
Josh Skinner



For me, one clip is showing fajing practice all the way. the other clip is showing posture practice all the way.

[donjitsu2]

For me, one clip is showing fajing practice all the way. the other clip is showing posture practice all the way.


I think that's an accurate way of putting it.

[Crosshandz]

I like Su Dong Chen's Xingyi (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BOl6zpaxK8). From the clips I've seen of him Su's pedagogical method seems to be to make everything he's doing as obvious to his students so they understand it. Its easy seeing from the video linked above how the five fists blend together into this sort of application (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0D93V9Orl2I), which again Su makes sure to demonstrate the mechanics of for the interested watcher's benefit. I've always thought it'd be quite cool to learn Su's Xingyi...

[Hendrik]

I like Su Dong Chen's Xingyi (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BOl6zpaxK8). From the clips I've seen of him Su's pedagogical method seems to be to make everything he's doing as obvious to his students so they understand it. Its easy seeing from the video linked above how the five fists blend together into this sort of application (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0D93V9Orl2I), which again Su makes sure to demonstrate the mechanics of for the interested watcher's benefit. I've always thought it'd be quite cool to learn Su's Xingyi...



in my opinion, Su is a great postures practioners.

However,
Su doesnt have the fajing kung fu such as the above post.

I look at other Su's application clip and his power generation is usual karate, boxing, wu shu or ordinary people type. his inside and outside three synchronization (Nei Wai Shan Her) is good for posturing but when it comes to momentum generation he doesnt do it at all or just being very plain similar to the wushu person above.

[Crosshandz]

in my opinion, Su is a great postures practioners.

However,
Su doesnt have the fajing kung fu such as the above post.

I look at other Su's application clip and his power generation is usual karate, boxing, wu shu or ordinary people type. his inside and outside three synchronization (Nei Wai Shan Her) is good for posturing but when it comes to momentum generation he doesnt do it at all or just being very plain similar to the wushu person above.

I think in Su's five elements you can see him very gently tightening his fists and then relaxing them again. I have never met Su Dong Chen but to my eyes the key components of timing, posture, tension, relaxation, rising, drilling, falling and overturning are there in his Xingyi. I assumed watching him that there was some reason why he didn't want to display the Fajing overtly.

The same components are present in Feng Zhengbao's Xingyi (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPJ0LGVpHLs). However, Feng's intention in this particular instance is not pedagogical as Su Dong Chen's clearly was but to display Xingyi's true power. This is great if you know what you're looking at but if you have no idea you would miss a lot you would just see Feng moving rapidly without being able to understand how he's generating his power.

It comes down to the intention of the two masters in the two different instances. I'm sure if Feng were your teacher he would slow down and show you exactly at what stage he was wrapping, coiling, how it related to his breathing, the turning of his wrists, forearm etc.etc. Likewise I'm sure if Su was seriously fighting someone he would be showing all the elements of Fajing that he and his Kung fu brothers such as Xu Hongji and Luo Dexiu (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pddfqUx0v80) gained rewown for.

[Crosshandz]

Serendipity...

Xingyiquan by Feng Zheng-bao (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8yCwikaU4s)

In the partner exercises shown here by Feng you see a lot more of the mechanics he blitzes through elsewhere. Top quality Xingyi.

[Hendrik]

I think in Su's five elements you can see him very gently tightening his fists and then relaxing them again. I have never met Su Dong Chen but to my eyes the key components of timing, posture, tension, relaxation, rising, drilling, falling and overturning are there in his Xingyi. I assumed watching him that there was some reason why he didn't want to display the Fajing overtly.

The same components are present in Feng Zhengbao's Xingyi (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPJ0LGVpHLs). However, Feng's intention in this particular instance is not pedagogical as Su Dong Chen's clearly was but to display Xingyi's true power. This is great if you know what you're looking at but if you have no idea you would miss a lot you would just see Feng moving rapidly without being able to understand how he's generating his power.

It comes down to the intention of the two masters in the two different instances. I'm sure if Feng were your teacher he would slow down and show you exactly at what stage he was wrapping, coiling, how it related to his breathing, the turning of his wrists, forearm etc.etc. Likewise I'm sure if Su was seriously fighting someone he would be showing all the elements of Fajing that he and his Kung fu brothers such as Xu Hongji and Luo Dexiu (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pddfqUx0v80) gained rewown for.


For me, technical speaking

The first clip, Zeng both have the same type of fajing kung fu foundation as CXW here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hyl8mg4Pg6o&feature=related




Su and Luo have the same type of patterns, and dont have that type of kung fu the above three expose to.



in fact,

Su, in the following clip has shown his difficulties to handle his own momentum at motion in slow speed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BOl6zpaxK8



Su is certainly in trouble if facing an mmA. Not CXW and the first XingYi player who has ability to fajing on different part of the body.

[Hendrik]

Serendipity...

Xingyiquan by Feng Zheng-bao (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8yCwikaU4s)

In the partner exercises shown here by Feng you see a lot more of the mechanics he blitzes through elsewhere. Top quality Xingyi.



For me, CXW and the first Xingyi player's momentum handling preceed Feng alots.

Feng's above clip actually shows Feng's issue in handling momentum, he is still fragmented/rigid compare with CXW and the first Xingyi player, thus he will not get as fast acceleration and power.

[Violent Designs]

I know nothing of "true internal" anything but it seems to me Feng shifu's techniques had a lot of "wind-up" to it, if you know what I mean.

Like he has to charge up and then explode.

[Hendrik]

I know nothing of "true internal" anything but it seems to me Feng shifu's techniques had a lot of "wind-up" to it, if you know what I mean.

Like he has to charge up and then explode.



i feel exhausted just by watching him.

[rett]

Thanks for the comments. It gave me some different ideas for what to look at.

I'm wondering especially if the shaking looks like a real expression of power or if it is just decorative shaking. The kind internal guys sometimes are into but seems more like fluff than substance.

[YouKnowWho]

I don't like to comment on "thin air striking". To me, it doesn't mean anything. Striking in the thin air is just not my cup of tea. I really like to see how those body shaking can be applied on a heavy bag.

When you only train striking in the thin air, you miss a very important part of the training and that is when your fist hit on your opponent's body, your arm have to be strong enough to take the impact that you will never be able to develop through solo training only. It's just like to throw a imaginary opponent (with 0 weight) over your head is quite different from to throw a 260 lb opponent.

Those "thin air striking" clip also cannot prove whether the performer has arthritis on his finger joints or not.