KIMBO SLICE gets schooled

[TenTigers]

Don't know if this has been up here yet, (y'know, cuz I'm a Kung-Fu guy, so I don't come here much;-)
http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/81667136/

What are your thoughts?

[HumbleWCGuy]

Don't know if this has been up here yet, (y'know, cuz I'm a Kung-Fu guy, so I don't come here much;-)
http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/81667136/

What are your thoughts?

Kimbo isn't a great mma fighter or anything, but he has sense enough not to telegraph his punches as do most boxers. Kimbo is just being polite.

[Dragonzbane76]

yeah i think he's just being polite.

Actually kimbos boxing isn't that bad, it's just everything else in his arsenal that sucks.

[Snipsky]

Ok which one of you can handle Kimbo Slice? On the real? cause if he's much better than you are, then its only fair to give the man his props. he's a beast.

[HumbleWCGuy]

yeah i think he's just being polite.

Actually kimbos boxing isn't that bad, it's just everything else in his arsenal that sucks.

Sadly, that's what happens when you try to be a nice guy. Some jerk posted a video entitled, "Kimbo Gets Schooled." I hope that Kimbo stuffs that dude in a trash can.

[viper]

I think give Kimbo his due he improved a great deal on TUF. If he could ground work and so fourth as good as he strikes he`d be a contender in the UFC.

[Frost]

thoughts?
1) its easy to do this cr*p when you arent trying to hit with power and your opponent isnt hitting back
2) Kimbo is a nice guy
3) i know who my money would be on in a real fight

[Hardwork108]

Don't know if this has been up here yet, (y'know, cuz I'm a Kung-Fu guy, so I don't come here much;-)
http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/81667136/

What are your thoughts?
I saw some kung fu principles in that video. For example, the emphasis on the elbow as "propulsion" and not the shoulder. The use of slow (yin) strikes as opposed to fast (yang), to get he same results, that is, hit the target.

That video will provide the "modernist" a small window into the wisdom of some of the TCMA methodologies and concepts.

Thank you for posting.

[HumbleWCGuy]

I saw some kung fu principles in that video. For example, the emphasis on the elbow as "propulsion" and not the shoulder. The use of slow (yin) strikes as opposed to fast (yang), to get he same results, that is, hit the target.

That video will provide the "modernist" a small window into the wisdom of some of the TCMA methodologies and concepts.

Thank you for posting.

If I watched this without sound, I would agree with you. Since I paid attention to the audio, I thought it was a mixed bag of faulty logic and show boating. The, "instructor," demonstrated martial arts technique, but nothing he said was worthwhile.

[Frost]

personally id give it credit if he could show those principles in action against kimbo, should be easy to do right...............:)

[JamesC]

Kimbo and Bob Sapp are the reasons that weight divisions exist, lol.

He does seem to be a generally nice guy, though. I don't know if he was while he was doing his street fighting or not. I wonder, was he maybe humbled a bit when he started training in MMA?

I like him. He was obviously being polite.

[Kevin73]

I didn't see anyone getting "schooled". Kimbo sat there and listened to the other guy explain things. So what? This wasn't a sparring match or even a boxing match where the teacher was applying what he was taught.

I think those principles are good if you are fighting in a point fight contest where the action is started and stopped and contact is limited, but when it is fast and furious how well does it hold up.

[TenTigers]

I'm in total agreement with his alignment, elbow down, non-telegraphic movement, etc.
I'm not too keen on his power generation, however. The way he's throwing it, I am not sure if it has enough body behind the blow. If he can do the same thing but engage his body more during the power chain, it would be quick, not telegraphic, and powerful.

[Frost]

lol theory is just that, i love it when people who havent fought like to tell fighters what they are doing is wrong :)

[HumbleWCGuy]

lol theory is just that, i love it when people who havent fought like to tell fighters what they are doing is wrong :)

Do do you think that boxing trainers who haven't fought are less proficient than ones who have?

[Dragonzbane76]

personally id give it credit if he could show those principles in action against kimbo, should be easy to do right...............

having people post some actual "hard" proof would be like finding the ark of the convenant or something of that nature.

but as "someone" posted above this is a window into the what "traditionalists" consider wisdom and concepts. :rolleyes:

[HumbleWCGuy]

I liked how he said that moving side to side created an optical illusion that allowed him to move forward more easily, nothing to do with avoiding punches.

[Frost]

Do do you think that boxing trainers who haven't fought are less proficient than ones who have?

i think its hard to teach something you have never done

[HumbleWCGuy]

i think its hard to teach something you have never done
I agree. It can be difficult. I tend to see it as a mixed bag. They don't really know so they can over train guys, misinterpret ring situations, or give generally incorrect advice in adverse situations that they have no experience in.

I think that professional coaches who have never actually done something can be very good in certain ways. Sometimes they may be very good mitt holders, know a lot of drills, or have good conditioning routines. Because they didn't fight, they have developed other skills, or knowledge with the extra time. Guys who have never trained can also run good gyms because of other factors like being good at the business and creating the right environment to train in.

[Kevin73]

i think its hard to teach something you have never done

Agreed. Almost all of the best sports coaches I know used to also be athletes in that sport to some degree, even though some didn't compete at the highest levels of their sport.

You have to have some direct knowledge of the nuances of the game to really have someone excell at it.

[BJJ-Blue]

Marc Laimon is a good MMA grappling trainer who never fought.

Cus D'Amato and Angelo Dundee are boxing trainers who never fought. Dundee is in the International Boxing Hall of Fame as a trainer.

[BJJ-Blue]

Actually kimbos boxing isn't that bad, it's just everything else in his arsenal that sucks.


Kimbo isn't a great mma fighter or anything, but he has sense enough not to telegraph his punches as do most boxers.

Kimbo is making his boxing debut on August 13th against 39 year old James Wade who is 0-1.

[Hardwork108]

I'm in total agreement with his alignment, elbow down, non-telegraphic movement, etc.
I'm not too keen on his power generation, however. The way he's throwing it, I am not sure if it has enough body behind the blow. If he can do the same thing but engage his body more during the power chain, it would be quick, not telegraphic, and powerful.

That is why it is not good to take kung fu principles and mix them with other "irrelevant" martial arts. The thinking behind the principles have been done for us a 100 years ago, or more. So, we need to practice the correct way, in order to get the full benefit.

The boxer who was showing this stuff to Kimbo, was obviously no kung fu fighter, but he had somehow come to the conclusion that his way had benefits, which is fair enough, but as I stated before, what he was showing was just a small window into the profoundness of the TCMAs.

[Hardwork108]

personally id give it credit if he could show those principles in action against kimbo, should be easy to do right...............:)

Irrelevant. The principles of not telegraphing your move to the opponent shoule make sense to any actual fighter, even if they are taught to you by a 75 year old man.

It just makes sense. Also, the fact that sometimes you can be slow, yet you can be more effective than fast, should be something that provokes a figher or a potential fighter, into researching this concept further.

[Hardwork108]

If I watched this without sound, I would agree with you. Since I paid attention to the audio, I thought it was a mixed bag of faulty logic and show boating. The, "instructor," demonstrated martial arts technique, but nothing he said was worthwhile.

I am only going with the TCMA principles that I saw, and nothing else.:)

[Frost]

That is why it is not good to take kung fu principles and mix them with other "irrelevant" martial arts. The thinking behind the principles have been done for us a 100 years ago, or more. So, we need to practice the correct way, in order to get the full benefit.

The boxer who was showing this stuff to Kimbo, was obviously no kung fu fighter, but he had somehow come to the conclusion that his way had benefits, which is fair enough, but as I stated before, what he was showing was just a small window into the profoundness of the TCMAs.

hes not a boxer, he is an actor, which means its all theory he has never actually fought a skilled opponent with head strikes allowed

[Frost]

Irrelevant. The principles of not telegraphing your move to the opponent shoule make sense to any actual fighter, even if they are taught to you by a 75 year old man.

It just makes sense. Also, the fact that sometimes you can be slow, yet you can be more effective than fast, should be something that provokes a figher or a potential fighter, into researching this concept further.

nope unless you can show it in action its useless, principles like that are great, ever wonder why you dont see fighters like kimbo using methods like that.....

[TenTigers]

actually, he has quite an extensive Martial arts background, including Kyokushin. Just because he has not fought in a cage does not mean he hasn't fought. But..yeah, you're right. He's not a pro fighter, and there is a huge difference.

[HumbleWCGuy]

nope unless you can show it in action its useless, principles like that are great, ever wonder why you dont see fighters like kimbo using methods like that.....

You are mainly referring to the slow punch?

[Scott R. Brown]

i think its hard to teach something you have never done

Tell that to Bela Karolyi!

[sanjuro_ronin]

Every coach I know HAS done his chosen sport, just like every MA teacher I know HAS done his chosen MA.
They may not h ave competed at a high level or even at all, but ALL of then HAVE experience in their chosen sport.


Marc Laimon is a good MMA grappling trainer who never fought.

Cus D'Amato and Angelo Dundee are boxing trainers who never fought. Dundee is in the International Boxing Hall of Fame as a trainer.

I don't know Marc but I am sure he has more than enough experience IN HIS Sport to teach it.
As for Cus and Angelo, they did fight, you don't box without fighting in their day.
They may not have had impressive records, but that doesn't take away from their amazing teaching ability.

[goju]

actually, he has quite an extensive Martial arts background, including Kyokushin. Just because he has not fought in a cage does not mean he hasn't fought. But..yeah, you're right. He's not a pro fighter, and there is a huge difference.

eh i dont know i believe he said he got his bb in kk karate at 12 which is pretty much impossible no?

[TenTigers]

nope unless you can show it in action its useless, principles like that are great, ever wonder why you dont see fighters like kimbo using methods like that.....

Boxers raise their elbows and shoulders when they punch, raising the shoulder and tucking the chin gives the boxer protection. There is a difference in alignment because of this, which negates the elbow down structure of most TCMA strikes. I'm sure one can find a happy medium, but if you give up on protection, you may be doing yourself a disservice.
TCMAists are looking to intercept strikes before they come to the head and don't take them on the arms and gloves as much (although in Hung Kuen, we do have this), which is why the cover is different-hands more forward.
(don't confuse this to mean a non-fighter's over extended pose, just more forward than a boxer's)

[TenTigers]

eh i dont know i believe he said he got his bb in kk karate at 12 which is pretty much impossible no?
yeah, I'm just saying, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Too many people have this black or white attitude. Either he fought in the cage, or he has no useful knowledge.
Well, I guess this is fine for some, but they miss out on many opportunities in their lives.

[HumbleWCGuy]

Guys, even if some coaches have no competition experience in the sports that they coach, let's not take exceptions to prove the rule. Second, we don't know for sure why these guys were good, "coaches."

Guys like Master Toddy have, "trained," numerous MT champions, but he mostly follows the, "CEO" model, where he brings in great trainers who may have had decent fighting careers to train. Toddy is successful because he is more businessman not that he is necessarily the best or most knowledgeable MT coach out there. However, I would bet that he employs the best.

[Darthlawyer]

Do do you think that boxing trainers who haven't fought are less proficient than ones who have?

I was going to out and out disagree with this statement, but my favorite (and the most underrated fighter of all time) fighter Joe Calzaghe was trained by his father, who's only experience was reading a book on boxing.

However, I'd say on the whole a trainer who has fought would be better than one who has not.

[HumbleWCGuy]

I was going to out and out disagree with this statement,

It was a question.



but my favorite (and the most underrated fighter of all time) fighter Joe Calzaghe was trained by his father, who's only experience was reading a book on boxing.


It looks like he had a chance to work with some professional trainers if this information is correct.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enzo_Calzaghe
Whilst in Cardiff, Enzo got involved in the local boxing gym and met Paul Williams, who was trainer of the Newbridge boxing club. Williams invited Enzo to bring his son Joe Calzaghe along. Joe became a regular at the gym and Enzo became Paul's assistant trainer." Williams retired when Joe was 18 and Enzo took over the gym.[1] Enzo Calzaghe has also won 'Coach of the Year' at the BBC Sports Personality awards, Ring Magazine trainer of the year for 2007[1] and Eddie Futch-John F.X. Condon Award, awarded by the Boxing Writers Association of America, for Trainer of the Year 2007.

[Frost]

actually, he has quite an extensive Martial arts background, including Kyokushin. Just because he has not fought in a cage does not mean he hasn't fought. But..yeah, you're right. He's not a pro fighter, and there is a huge difference.

and as i said hes not fought full contact with head shots (i have seen his kyokushin background, they compete without head shots correct?)

[Frost]

Boxers raise their elbows and shoulders when they punch, raising the shoulder and tucking the chin gives the boxer protection. There is a difference in alignment because of this, which negates the elbow down structure of most TCMA strikes. I'm sure one can find a happy medium, but if you give up on protection, you may be doing yourself a disservice.
TCMAists are looking to intercept strikes before they come to the head and don't take them on the arms and gloves as much (although in Hung Kuen, we do have this), which is why the cover is different-hands more forward.
(don't confuse this to mean a non-fighter's over extended pose, just more forward than a boxer's)

and as i said please show it in action against a boxer etc trying to take your head off, i have yet to see anyone succesfully do this ovr and over in full contact enviroment, have you?

[Frost]

yeah, I'm just saying, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Too many people have this black or white attitude. Either he fought in the cage, or he has no useful knowledge.
Well, I guess this is fine for some, but they miss out on many opportunities in their lives.

nope but showing someone something that you have never tried in a real enviroment and saying those that do do it wrong is a bit rich, as you say theres a reason they roll their sghoulder up, which hes not doing in his no telegraphed punch

[Frost]

Every coach I know HAS done his chosen sport, just like every MA teacher I know HAS done his chosen MA.
They may not h ave competed at a high level or even at all, but ALL of then HAVE experience in their chosen sport.



I don't know Marc but I am sure he has more than enough experience IN HIS Sport to teach it.
As for Cus and Angelo, they did fight, you don't box without fighting in their day.
They may not have had impressive records, but that doesn't take away from their amazing teaching ability.

yep, and lamone teaches the grappling aide of MMA< no one goes to him to learn striking for MMA, e is a specialized teacher (not to mention an idiot)

[HumbleWCGuy]

nope but showing someone something that you have never tried in a real enviroment and saying those that do do it wrong is a bit rich, as you say theres a reason they roll their sghoulder up, which hes not doing in his no telegraphed punch

He was wrong to show it, and it was also just wrong. He was creating a strawman boxer to put down. Protecting your head with your shoulder requires no such telegraphing.

[bawang]

i stopped benchpressing and it stopped my telegraphing

i find benching messes up your muscle memory and brings ur shoulder up

[Hardwork108]

nope unless you can show it in action its useless,

So, you cannot fathom why not telegraphing your attack can be useful, unless you see it in a fight? LOL!


principles like that are great, ever wonder why you dont see fighters like kimbo using methods like that.....

Well, Kimbo was interested in finding out about them and since he has had more fighting experience than you will ever have, then perhaps you should take a page out of his book?

By the way, not telegraphing your moves is part and parcel of Wing Chun (probably all other kung fu styles, each in its own way, of course). Why do you think that short range power is emphasized in WC and similar styles? Well, part of it has to do with being "invistible" when in short range. I was always taught not to telegraph my moves by a sifu who has used WC in real fights - and no there are no streetfight Youtube videos of him...LOL

[n.mitch]

micheal jai white is a good martial artist , did he fight in karate tournaments?

[Frost]

So, you cannot fathom why not telegraphing your attack can be useful, unless you see it in a fight? LOL!

nope im saying show what you are talking about against someone trying to take your head off...then you will see why it doesnt work like that. Go on show me you doing this in a fight....should be easy afterall our superior wing chun style has it.......


Well, Kimbo was interested in finding out about them and since he has had more fighting experience than you will ever have, then perhaps you should take a page out of his book?!
how dense are you, kimbo was on the set of a film, the star was talking bull and kimbo was too nice to do anything but smile afterall whos going to upset the talent?


By the way, not telegraphing your moves is part and parcel of Wing Chun (probably all other kung fu styles, each in its own way, of course). Why do you think that short range power is emphasized in WC and similar styles? Well, part of it has to do with being "invistible" when in short range. I was always taught not to telegraph my moves by a sifu who has used WC in real fights - and no there are no streetfight Youtube videos of him...LOL

whos asking for street fights, please show an example from any fight of what you are talking about, sparring full contact etc, should be easy to show since its in all those styles correct?