If Death were involved...

[MightyB]

If you added the element of a fight being a life or death situation - you're fighting someone - one of you is going to die - would it change how you play the fight game? If so, how?

[MasterKiller]

I would wear my best silk uniform to make a pretty corpse.

[JamesC]

Yes.

I'd probably run. More better.

[lkfmdc]

you know what will happen

[Dale Dugas]

Why waste time?

Shoot the b a s t a r d and get it over with.

That is why I train firearms.

Modern and ancient.

[TenTigers]

yep. That's why God invented scopes.

[MightyB]

Why waste time?

Shoot the b a s t a r d and get it over with.

That is why I train firearms.

Modern and ancient.

No Guns.
-----

[bawang]

i would pray to the heaven and earth, and make peace with my family.

then id smoke pcp for about a good hour. after that im ready to fight.

[JamesC]

Bawang's idea wins. /thread


Also, I had to fight a guy on PCP once. It took 8 guys over 200lbs, 45 minutes to subdue him. We tazed him 6 times. Pepper sprayed him and everything.

The guy weighed like 120lbs soaking wet.

[Lucas]

can we use blades? i'll cut a mofo

can i bring crushed and powdered glass to throw in his eyes before i cut him?

[Dale Dugas]

No guns?

Then fade in, and pick him up with your favorite prethrow set up and then throw him on his head.

Stomp on said head until paste appears.

He's dead.

[bawang]

i would gather my qi into the elixir field, then assume a five tigers captures sheep stance. then i slide past his centerline, tickle his testicles, then BAM, chop to the throat.

[lkfmdc]

I'd first pray to Crom

but if he didnt' listen, the hell with him!

[MasterKiller]

I'd first pray to Crom

but if he didnt' listen, the hell with him!

Why pray? Do you want to live forever?

[bawang]

Also, I had to fight a guy on PCP once. It took 8 guys over 200lbs, 45 minutes to subdue him. We tazed him 6 times. Pepper sprayed him and everything.



if you knew the cloud crane form, you wouldnt have any trouble.

[Dale Dugas]

stomp head into paste is much more colorful.

Maybe on a black slab of granite

praying to the old gods

ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn

[MightyB]

can we use blades? i'll cut a mofo

can i bring crushed and powdered glass to throw in his eyes before i cut him?

Weapons - improvised - good solution :)

[JamesC]

if you knew the cloud crane form, you wouldnt have any trouble.

Sorry master! I'll go practice my rolls now!

[MightyB]

No guns?

Then fade in, and pick him up with your favorite prethrow set up and then throw him on his head.

Stomp on said head until paste appears.

He's dead.

Decent Strategy - Old Judo/Ju Jitsu - Shuai Jiao

[bawang]

i would listen to this before the fight

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-gSJW3sHXE

[MightyB]

i would pray to the heaven and earth, and make peace with my family.

then id smoke pcp for about a good hour. after that im ready to fight.

Probably something more to this. If you DBs didn't chase out Kennedy with your knuckleheadedness - he'd probably be able to identify military rituals where heavy drug taking was encouraged.

[Lucas]

Weapons - improvised - good solution :)

I'm all about the black eggs!

[MightyB]

My thought is - just like there's probably a core "True Religion" that's been lost to antiquity - there's probably a core to martial arts. There's got to be a reason for some of the shared training methods in traditional martial arts. Maybe the true expression has been lost, but it's probably more than what we're seeing today in sport or tradition, I think the ghosts of it are there.

I'd like to see it and know it.

[bawang]

what do u mean

[MightyB]

what do u mean

TCMA Shuai, Na, Ti, Da methods - plus force training. If all that is so terrible, why are they around today?

Nobody has anything good to say about TCMA and this is a TCMA forum :mad:

F*ck it - MMA is God. It is everything.

Why don't we just say Kung Fu - You're all sick men of Asia wannabees. That's what this forum propagates. Just say NO to kung fu and TCMA. Burn Down the Temple! Old Chinese are losers - old methods and methodologies suck. Where's my Red Chinese Purge newsletter? We must all join against the fallacies of tradition! :mad:

[bawang]

no, i mean what kind of trainings confuse you?

[David Jamieson]

I would sharpen my nails and coat them with curare.
I don't care if I get hit, all I need is to give him one little skin scratch and he's done.

Deception and treachery are required for death matches. Not martial arts training. Kill training which is mostly knowledge and how to apply it.

:p

[Lucas]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metsubushi

[bawang]

that is highly dishonorable. i would appreaicate it if you did not mention that again.

[MightyB]

no, i mean what kind of trainings confuse you?

Actually none - I'm pretty confident in the TCMA approach even though I'd say that my own history is non-traditional. I've went through a MMA phase and find that it's shallow.


Recently did enough BJJ to get a Blue Belt in a Rigan Machado Affiliated School. Plus a Black Belt in Judo. Yet, I still go back to 7* Praying Mantis as better in applications. For force training, I learned some methods from my SiTai who happens to be Eagle Claw. And my new interests are leaning heavily towards internal - Specifically Chen Tai Chi.

I think there's more to TCMA. I do think it's poorly represented though. I'd like to see that change. This forum lately isn't helping TCMAs image. Just trashes it constantly. What are ways to make it better? A life and death scenario should flush that out.

[Lucas]

OH??????????? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metsubushi)

[bawang]

in hunan if no one won a fight, then they would stand and take turns chopping each other with a knife until one dies.


I think there's more to TCMA. I do think it's poorly represented though.

how do you think it should be represented?


Maybe the true expression has been lost
the true expression is very simple. facing life and death with grimness and stern resolve.

[MightyB]

in hunan if no one won a fight, then they would stand and take turns chopping each other with a knife until one dies.


how do you think it should be represented?

If only I knew - but whatever's being done must not be right. There are good schools, there are good instructors, there are even good organizations. It's all about bringing back fighting ability without losing the tradition. How's that done? I don't know.

[taai gihk yahn]

If you added the element of a fight being a life or death situation - you're fighting someone - one of you is going to die - would it change how you play the fight game? If so, how?

http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2010/12/9/533ceffc-c12a-4ffb-86f9-f22b932630f5.jpg

[bawang]

well, if you want to have a serious discussion, tv and movies ruined kung fu, maybe permanently.

kung fu came from a harsh and brutal time that seems surreal and alien to modern city chinese and americans. modern kung fu is very "playful". traditional training is boring, painful, america is the land of instant gratification.

It's all about bringing back fighting ability without losing the tradition. How's that done? I don't know.
you need to understand that there has always been a tradition of non fighting form dancers, dating back at least 500 years. it is a real, legitimate, but ultimately shameful tradition.

[MightyB]

kung fu came from a harsh and brutal time that seems surreal and alien to modern city chinese and americans. modern kung fu is very "playful". traditional training is boring, painful, america is the land of instant gratification.


What were some of these practices?

[bawang]

beating and yelling at the students to break their spirit and rebuild it. thats a good example.

but an important one that can be related to today, is probably living in poverty. kung fu people were poor people. today its mainly middle class to rich people. there is a huge gap is the view of reality.

[Ray Pina]

Closing the distance and engaging would be the same. Once control was gained, after landing a couple heavy shots, sinking a lock or a choke, etc, then start changing and getting medieval looking to sink a thumb in an eye, etc.

[Ray Pina]

I change my answer: right away I would look to grab something to use as a weapon. Then employ that with the same methods of looking to control or strike limbs as closing before targeting head or other areas.

[bawang]

do you really want to revive tradition?

you want to have a pre fight spirit possession ceremony, sprinkling of spirit water, praying to the immortals and casting protective spells on the fighters? send the fighters into berserker trance then play lion drums during the whole fight?

i dont think it would be very popular.

[JamesC]

beating and yelling at the students to break their spirit and rebuild it. thats a good example.

but an important one that can be related to today, is probably living in poverty. kung fu people were poor people. today its mainly middle class to rich people. there is a huge gap is the view of reality.

Bawang,

Do you think that Dr. Yang's retreat center has the capacity to accomplish something closer to what kung fu is supposed to be?

[bawang]

no, they are all role playing and have learned nothing.

[IronFist]

Bawang's idea wins. /thread


Also, I had to fight a guy on PCP once. It took 8 guys over 200lbs, 45 minutes to subdue him. We tazed him 6 times. Pepper sprayed him and everything.

The guy weighed like 120lbs soaking wet.

Sounds like MMA guys should lay off the steroids and Xyience and use PCP instead :D

[Brule]

I'd use my iron body skills.....

If that didn't work, i'd send this guy to tell my wife i love her.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/26/The_Littlest_Hobo_The_Complete_First_Season_DVD_co ver.jpg/220px-The_Littlest_Hobo_The_Complete_First_Season_DVD_co ver.jpg

[SPJ]

what to live for

what to die for

something bigger than ourself

yes

join the army

or join the commando

or ready to die team/brave to die team

gan si dui

--

you get to blow up stuff

take out some people/targets

and get yourself killed in a heart beat

--

what a way to go

or the proper way to go

--

musing

pondering

--

:D

[SPJ]

live to fight another day is also important

you fight

you win and you also lose.

chu ba wang or xiang yu was too proud

he lost his hometown/home village soldiers and was defeated by han xin.

there were fishermen with boats. he may return to his home town by crossing the river wu.

but he was too proud. he always won. he may not accept the fact that he may also lose.

so he killed himself by the wu jiang.

--

so the question

brave enough to accept defeat

or brave enough to end one's own life

--

as a leader, your life is no longer yours. you have to consider your people and your followers.

on the other hand, yue wang gou jian may taste gallbladder/biles and sleep on firewood

or live in shame but he avenged himself and recovered his kingdom at the end

--

the q is

you want to be chu ba wang or yue wang?

--

[teetsao]

every fight u ever engage in should be considered,life and death. someone is always getting killed in a fight,that "they didnt mean to happen" or "didnt mean to kill him"
u could slip and fall and hit ur head on the concrete and die.all fights are dangerous,regaurdless of your sill,murphys law comes into effect. many bar fights have ended up like this.look at the post m.k. made about the "mma" kid who got killed.
1 of my teachers told me"it is better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6"
avoid fighting if u can as it proves nothing unless u or you wife or family or friend are being attacked or u think u are going to be attacked,(we can do this in ky. it is a pre-emptive law,if i feel threatened i can attack u and neutralize u b4 u attack) then fight like your life depends on it,because it just may.
this is where skil sets come in.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Intent dictates result.
I wouldn't fight any different, but the intent and as such the result would be very different.

[Lucas]

i think it can be difficult to work in society like that. if i always treat every confrontation as life or death, i would definately end up in prison. being able to ascertain when you actually need to react with a live or die mindset/attitude is key. I understand that philosophy, and to a degree agree, but not to the maxiumum on reaction or attack.

[goju]

In this scenario are you allowed to invite demons into your body pre fight?:D

[Lucas]

Intent dictates result.
I wouldn't fight any different, but the intent and as such the result would be very different.

would you be promted to draw a weapon immediately upon coming to the conclusion that you are in a live or die confrontation?

[Lucas]

In this scenario are you allowed to invite demons into your body pre fight?:D

yes. demon infused berzerkers are always rewarded in blood.

[sanjuro_ronin]

would you be promted to draw a weapon immediately upon coming to the conclusion that you are in a live or die confrontation?

No.
Life is sacred and the taking of a life is something that will be with us forever.

[ShaolinDan]

Kind of unclear about the rules or conditions about the topic starter (other than that someone dies). Not really a game I would ever choose to play.

But, hypothetically, assuming there are no conditions, overwhelming surprise attack would be the preferred method, preferably with allies, preferably before the other even knows about 'the fight' (it's all in The Art of War :) )--'course then it wouldn't be a fight, it'd be an assassination.

And if there are rules...well, I wouldn't be involved so I'll stay out of that.

[wenshu]

http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2010/12/9/533ceffc-c12a-4ffb-86f9-f22b932630f5.jpg

Fighting to the death? I would definitely build up an immunity to iocane powder.

[bawang]

demonic possession improves combat efficiency by 200%.

and you can get out of court easy by claiming insanity

[Lucas]

No.
Life is sacred and the taking of a life is something that will be with us forever.

so at what point would you feel purposefully making intent to take a life is required? is that when more than your own life is at stake? what do you do when you may be in a situation where ascum bag has a good chance at murdering you for your wallet, do you let him murder you? say for instance you are on vacation in venzuela and you are the target of a knife murder mugging? and what of people with families...ya its just your life, but then your family depends on you and will be heavily effected if you die...i understand you feel all life is equal, but sometimes i think some peoples lives are not equal.

honest inquiry i just want to know how your brain works on this one.

[bawang]

people who seriously brag about how they would kill someone in self defence never killed anything bigger than a fly.

[sanjuro_ronin]

so at what point would you feel purposefully making intent to take a life is required? is that when more than your own life is at stake? what do you do when you may be in a situation where ascum bag has a good chance at murdering you for your wallet, do you let him murder you? say for instance you are on vacation in venzuela and you are the target of a knife murder mugging? and what of people with families...ya its just your life, but then your family depends on you and will be heavily effected if you die...i understand you feel all life is equal, but sometimes i think some peoples lives are not equal.

honest inquiry i just want to know how your brain works on this one.

When your life and the life of another person are in danger and you have no other choice but to kill, then you have no other choice ( allowing yourself or another to be killed not being an option).
But you didn't ask me that, you asked me:

would you be promted to draw a weapon immediately upon coming to the conclusion that you are in a live or die confrontation?

Allow me to expand:
Just because you believe that your life is in danger, doesn't mean you can draw a weapon ( I assume you mean a deadly one like a knife or gun).
Of course IF by "coming to the conclusion" you mean the attacker draws a knife or gun then I would think that we are justified to do the same.
Which doesn't equal killing.
Incapacitation first and if no other option, death.
BUT death is not something to be talked about as lightly as some tend to do.
Like I said, it stays with you forever.

[sanjuro_ronin]

people who seriously brag about how they would kill someone in self defence never killed anything bigger than a fly.

There is much wisdom in that and the other type of person that peaks rather "easily" about killing is, well, someone with very little regards about life.

Old saying is, if you can't fix it, don't break it.
It applies to MA also.

[MightyB]

So in this context - are at least some of the methodologies and training methods of TCMAs valid?

[bawang]

So in this context - are at least some of the methodologies and training methods of TCMAs valid?

training methodologies are fine, its how people train , your mindset, people personal background, beliefs etc that changed and are no longer valid.

if you want to ask if something is valid, at least state what it is. its too vague.

[sanjuro_ronin]

So in this context - are at least some of the methodologies and training methods of TCMAs valid?

I think that what makes TCMA unique are the "gungs" and yes, most of them are valid.

[ShaolinDan]

So in this context - are at least some of the methodologies and training methods of TCMAs valid?

Of course. TCMAs are the Grand Ultimate. :D

[MightyB]

training methodologies are fine, its how people train , your mindset, people personal background, beliefs etc that changed and are no longer valid.

if you want to ask if something is valid, at least state what it is. its too vague.

There's little hope - even in my short time in TCMA (measly 2 decades), I've seen "gungs" lost and the spirit of the participants change (used to be more difficult to be a Sifu, now everybody's a Sifu). It's hard to define but it isn't the same as when I started and it wasn't like it was full of brutal stars back then either.

[David Jamieson]

Of course. TCMAs are the Grand Ultimate. :D

well, except for the step versions and the slappy fight fests.

[bawang]

There's little hope - even in my short time in TCMA (measly 2 decades), I've seen "gungs" lost and the spirit of the participants change (used to be more difficult to be a Sifu, now everybody's a Sifu). It's hard to define but it isn't the same as when I started and it wasn't like it was full of brutal stars back then either.

you need to realize that the heart of kung fu has always and will be in mainland china. american kung fu has never mattered.

i have no qualms about chinatown kung fu dying. it means nothing to me.

[sanjuro_ronin]

you need to realize that the heart of kung fu has always and will be in mainland china. american kung fu has never mattered.

Interested in your views about kung Fu from Macao..

[ShaolinDan]

well, except for the step versions and the slappy fight fests.

Eh, just be stricter about what the 'T' stands for. :)

It's funny...I see the scary youtube videos, so I have a sense of what other people are seeing out there. Still, I've only ever trained at one kung fu school, and it was apparent from day one that it was more 'hardcore' by a factor of 10 than the Karate, TKD, Aikido, and Kempo training I'd had experience with. So in my limited experience, I haven't really seen the 'sad' state of TCMA, what I've seen rocks. But, all told, I guess I'm just too lucky to have a relevant point of view. :)

[bawang]

Interested in your views about kung Fu from Macao..

macao was a prostitute den, then was a center for human trafficking. whats so special about that place?

[sanjuro_ronin]

macao was a prostitute den, then was a center for human trafficking. whats so special about that place?

So the kung fu taught was practical?
Thought so.
:D

[bawang]

So the kung fu taught was practical?
Thought so.
:D

during the opium war, when the cantonese soldiers fired the cannons they went into fetal positions on the ground crying. not hearsay, offical government report.

that pretty much sums up souther kung fu for you.

[sanjuro_ronin]

during the opium war, when the cantonese soldiers fired the cannons they went into fetal positions on the ground crying. not hearsay, offical government report.

that pretty much sums up souther kung fu for you.

Lies !!!!!
You have dishonoured the Southern Lineage form which my Hung Kuen and SPM come from ( Macao incidently so you have double dishounored me) !!!

We shall meet on the battlefield and honour will be satisfied by BLOOD ( yours perferably) !!!!

[Lucas]

bawang also said canadians dont have big muscles! gethim!!! watch out tho he has a helicopter...

[ShaolinDan]

bawang also said canadians dont have big muscles! gethim!!! watch out tho he has a helicopter...

LMAO. Glad you're back, Lucas.

[sanjuro_ronin]

bawang also said canadians dont have big muscles! gethim!!! watch out tho he has a helicopter...

Well, he is Canadian and was looking in the mirror when he said that,so...

[Lucas]

lol thx. im actually glad to be back toO!

[Lucas]

Well, he is Canadian and was looking in the mirror when he said that,so...

haha ouch.

[bawang]

bawang also said canadians dont have big muscles! gethim!!! watch out tho he has a helicopter...

thats wher youre wrong, pal.

i been injecting 5000 mg of halotestin. daily.

I FEEL INCREDIBLE




We shall meet on the battlefield and honour will be satisfied by BLOOD ( yours perferably) !!!!

i will use nodachi samurai. +10 charge, +5 melee attack.

[TenTigers]

he also doesn't care if Chinatown dies!
BAH! Then where would you be?
Eating Gen. Tsao's Chicken, Chop Suey, Shrimp Toast, Fried chicken, yellow rice, french fries and rib tips from Spanish speaking Fukienese take-outs.. And don't forget the hot sauce! That's where!
Nevermind Gung-Fu. If Chinatown goes away, then there will be no place for Jews to eat!

[David Jamieson]

he also doesn't care if Chinatown dies!
BAH! Then where would you be?
Eating Gen. Tsao's Chicken, Chop Suey, Shrimp Toast, Fried chicken, yellow rice, french fries and rib tips from Spanish speaking Fukienese take-outs.. And don't forget the hot sauce! That's where!
Nevermind Gung-Fu. If Chinatown goes away, then there will be no place for Jews to eat!

well, on Christmas eve anyway.

There's always the McDonalds in the Walmart though.
Mind you, finding a McDonalds in a walmart is like a surgeon finding a cyst inside a tumor, but there you have it.

[SPJ]

he also doesn't care if Chinatown dies!
BAH! Then where would you be?
Eating Gen. Tsao's Chicken, Chop Suey, Shrimp Toast, Fried chicken, yellow rice, french fries and rib tips from Spanish speaking Fukienese take-outs.. And don't forget the hot sauce! That's where!
Nevermind Gung-Fu. If Chinatown goes away, then there will be no place for Jews to eat!

I am drooling all over the keyboard.

peking duck

+ pork feet

I am in heaven and above 7th clouds.

:)

[Lucas]

everyone knows bawang only eat kfc.

[Hardwork108]

No guns?

Then fade in, and pick him up with your favorite prethrow set up and then throw him on his head.

Stomp on said head until paste appears.

He's dead.
You know Dale, you sometimes scare me...:D :)

[Hardwork108]

Lies !!!!!
You have dishonoured the Southern Lineage form which my Hung Kuen and SPM come from ( Macao incidently so you have double dishounored me) !!!

We shall meet on the battlefield and honour will be satisfied by BLOOD ( yours perferably) !!!!

The worst thing is that Bawang seemst be serious about his criticisms of Southern Kung fu, which he does not seem to know much about. Yep, yet another one kung fu "expert" imparting opinions in this forum. :rolleyes:

So, I will be on the battlefield to referee your death match....:D

[Kansuke]

If you added the element of a fight being a life or death situation - you're fighting someone - one of you is going to die - would it change how you play the fight game? If so, how?



Yes it would. I would kill them.

[taai gihk yahn]

If you added the element of a fight being a life or death situation - you're fighting someone - one of you is going to die - would it change how you play the fight game? If so, how?

This is my bodyguard. Anything you have to say to me, you say to him first.
http://awesomebmovies.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/my-bodyguard-scene.jpg

[David Jamieson]

What a great movie that was.

Anyway, I was thinking, what if you had some fresh loganberries?

[taai gihk yahn]

What a great movie that was.

Anyway, I was thinking, what if you had some fresh loganberries?

I'd say don't come crying to me when some homicidal maniac comes at you with a bunch of 'em on your way 'ome tonite...

[Dale Dugas]

what about a pointed stick?

"POINTED STICK!??????!!!????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?????????"

[David Jamieson]

Shut UP!!!!!!