TCMA Class Group Photo

[MightyB]

Most look like this: 30 to 50 people total. A lot of little kids, old people, middle aged but out of shape people, skinny as waif people, over weight people, one or two younger people with a bit of a hard edge look to them.

What's the Sifu to do? - he's got one or two with potential or desire to fight. It's worse if it's only one.

Truth is, we all know good to great traditional Sifu who have the skillz. Some post here. Occasionally good fighting students pick up the torch and continue the legacy. But something else is happening too because TCMA is losing it's reputation as a fighting art sooo - either they have the skillz but don't know how to teach them, or they don't have the students who are willing and able to learn, or they are teaching using a one size fits all approach that's obviously not working (talking about transmitting fighting skill only).

[bawang]

dont teach for money and all those people wouldnt be in the photos.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Most look like this: 30 to 50 people total. A lot of little kids, old people, middle aged but out of shape people, skinny as waif people, over weight people, one or two younger people with a bit of a hard edge look to them.

What's the Sifu to do? - he's got one or two with potential or desire to fight. It's worse if it's only one.

Truth is, we all know good to great traditional Sifu who have the skillz. Some post here. Occasionally good fighting students pick up the torch and continue the legacy. But something else is happening too because TCMA is losing it's reputation as a fighting art sooo - either they have the skillz but don't know how to teach them, or they don't have the students who are willing and able to learn, or they are teaching using a one size fits all approach that's obviously not working (talking about transmitting fighting skill only).

TCMA do not attract fighters.
Hence a teacher can wait to be lucky or use his discretion as to who he has is best suited to carry the fighter role.

[Snipsky]

Why does the MOD allow gung fu bashing on a kung fu forum by people who've lost their faith in TCMA? :confused:

[bawang]

because you are all weak omega males. we are alpha. we do what we want.

we are rampage jackson. you are ariel helwani.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Why does the MOD allow gung fu bashing on a kung fu forum by people who've lost their faith in TCMA? :confused:

Who is bashing TCMA ?

[Snipsky]

Who is bashing TCMA ?

uh, no one...i guess.

[MasterKiller]

LOL. The reason the class looks like that is because the CLASS IS NOT HARD.

Make the class hard, and soft people drop out. Problem solved.

[bawang]

LOL. The reason the class looks like that is because the CLASS IS NOT HARD.

Make the class hard, and soft people drop out. Problem solved.

then the college dropout cant make money and will have to find a real job, that needs hard work and dedication, like mcdonalds.

[David Jamieson]

In a roman legion, every century had 6-8 battled hardened men. The other 80 or 90 were fodder.

Any fighting unit requires experienced members. But not all of them are.

So, in the sense of any school that teaches, MOST of your students will not be fighters. they are there to learn, have fun, get some exercise and pick up a little self confidence. They may or may not come to complete ability as a fighter.

Even boxing clubs are like this. there are one or two guys who make the cut and everyone else is in it for the in it.

It's ok.

Can you imagine what a crappy world it would be if we were all the same?

dull. :)

[bawang]

Can you imagine what a crappy world it would be if we were all the same?



it would be a beautiful , manly world.

[David Jamieson]

it would be a beautiful , manly world.

No, it would be dry, dull, boring. We'd all be the same, we'd all agree on teh same things, we'd all have the same perspective.

Trees don't grow if they don't get bent by the wind.
Motors don't run if they don't get used.
H0m0genous societies are failures for the most part.
Diversity is key to success in virtually all things.

[Snipsky]

it would be a beautiful , manly world.

no it wouldn't. you'd complain about it because they wouldn't be looking like YOU. :p

[bawang]

if you dont teach for money, you dont need to compromise yourself. you wouldnt be worried about getting "popular" "mainstream". you wouldnt dehumanize or objectify students as sources of income.

then you wouldnt have thoese limp wristed homersexuals in your photo, with those empty , empty eyes.

[ginosifu]

TCMA do not attract fighters.
Hence a teacher can wait to be lucky or use his discretion as to who he has is best suited to carry the fighter role.

I have wondered about this myself.


LOL. The reason the class looks like that is because the CLASS IS NOT HARD.

Make the class hard, and soft people drop out. Problem solved.

Does not always work that way. I have made classes harder and everyone drops out, even the tougher guys. Sometime it could be the neighborhood, I mean white collar areas are usually light on fighting and Low income and Blue collar areas are more fight oriented.

What makes up your kwoon will depend on the neighborhood, the mood of the people in that area, economic reasons, many factors can lead to dropping out at schools. This will then lead to who will be the Sifu in your Kwoon.

ginosifu

[sanjuro_ronin]

I have wondered about this myself.



Does not always work that way. I have made classes harder and everyone drops out, even the tougher guys. Sometime it could be the neighborhood, I mean white collar areas are usually light on fighting and Low income and Blue collar areas are more fight oriented.

What makes up your kwoon will depend on the neighborhood, the mood of the people in that area, economic reasons, many factors can lead to dropping out at schools. This will then lead to who will be the Sifu in your Kwoon.

ginosifu


When I take someone on, the first year or so is basically MMA with a kyokushin/judo hybrid flavour.
For most that is enough.
Those that want more, I introduce TCMA.

[ginosifu]

if you dont teach for money, you dont need to compromise yourself. you wouldnt be worried about getting "popular" "mainstream". you wouldnt dehumanize or objectify students as sources of income.

All BS

I have offered classes for FREE in the past.... sadly no one came. The American person puts a monetary value on everything. If it costs less or nothing then it has no value. If it costs more then it has value, hence the high priced McDojo's making the millions they do.

ginosifu

[sanjuro_ronin]

All BS

I have offered classes for FREE in the past.... sadly no one came. The American person puts a monetary value on everything. If it costs less or nothing then it has no value. If it costs more then it has value, hence the high priced McDojo's making the millions they do.

ginosifu

This, I can see from personal experience, is quite true.

[lkfmdc]

Why does the MOD allow gung fu bashing on a kung fu forum by people who've lost their faith in TCMA? :confused:

http://www.allsandiegocomputerrepair.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/crying_baby.jpg

[bawang]

All BS

I have offered classes for FREE in the past.... sadly no one came. The American person puts a monetary value on everything.



the problem is you teach in white bread middle class neighborhood, like you said.

when you teach for free they show their true colors.

[sanjuro_ronin]

the problem is you teach in white bread middle class neighborhood, like you said.
i doubt poor people can afford 100 dollars a month classes.

I rarely mention this but:
I have a former student that teaches at a well know MA club that teaches MMA and a few other things.
One guy that I took on for a bit went from Me to Him, not knowing that he was my former student.
Why?
He felt that being part of a Big school made his MA training better.
I know for a fact that the training is far less intense and technical than what he was doing with me.
But now he is paying for it and feels like he is getting "more" because it isn't for free.

[bawang]

thats because you guys are forcing kung fu to be more popular than it should be, teaching it in places where it shouldnt be taught.

when you teach for free, it gets personal. most people dont want that. they just wanna have fun and play.

[sanjuro_ronin]

thats because you guys are forcing kung fu to be more popular than it should be, teaching it in places where it shouldnt be taught.

when you teach for free, it gets personal. most people dont want that. they just wanna have fun and play.

Kung fu is NOT fun and it is NOT play.
It is Pain, it is lots of pain and it is PERSONAL development to the highest degree.
And it is not and never was, for everybody.

[Taixuquan99]

Free classes are never big. And pay buys gear and can bring in coaches and other teachers, if you're an honest teacher. This seems to be how the better schools do it.

[bawang]

you guys are surprised that students dont stay long when you teach for free.


you guys dont seem to realize, when you teach for free, students realize there is not much to learn. you have to develop a personal relationship with each and every student.


the chinatown ways dont work anymore when you teach for free. you cant fake an air of mystery, you cant play the big bad sifu. cant pressure students to conform, cant have politics and little cliques

in free teaching , people see your true character.

[ginosifu]

the problem is you teach in white bread middle class neighborhood, like you said.

when you teach for free they show their true colors.

Yes I have a school in White Bread middle class, but I also run a school in an all African American Low income neighborhood. The same thing applies here as well, if I don't charge them something they think I am not a qualified instructor. I also was hired by the Local Chinese community to teach Chinese Americans Kung Fu. I told them I needed to be paid for this and they had no problem offering me a salary. Nothing is for free in this world.

ginosifu

[ShaolinDan]

It is true that most people(at least in U.S.--probably everywhere) don't value what is free. Also true that location makes a big difference--my teacher has two schools in the area, one is in a depressed city, the other is in my dear little hippy-dippy college town (which I love, by the way). A popular job for graduates of the city school is law enforcement, students from my town choose physical therapy, massage, chinese medicine...For sure, people are in it for a different reason.

Also (the one thing I have to add), a teacher who teaches for free has to have a day job... Someone who makes their living on kung fu can spend more time training too. That's good for the students.

[bawang]

I don't charge them something they think I am not a qualified instructor.

maybe you are not a good teacher, and when you teach for free people see right through you.

when you teach for free, people REALLY notice your true character and personality. if you dont 100% believe in what you do, it will show.

[sanjuro_ronin]

you guys are surprised that students dont stay long when you teach for free.


you guys dont seem to realize, when you teach for free, students realize there is not much to learn. you have to develop a personal relationship with each and every student.


the chinatown ways dont work anymore when you teach for free. you cant fake an air of mystery, you cant play the big bad sifu. cant pressure students to conform, cant have politics and little cliques

in free teaching , people see your true character.

That almost sounds like a slight dude, I will give you the benefit of the doubt.

I no longer teach nor do I see myself doing that anymore other than my two little girls if they decide to learn.
I have taught at some impressive schools that I could name but would prove pointless other than to say that when I taught ( which is much the same as I do in private) I was much sought after and quite a few students went on to win, even at the national level.

[bawang]

im not insulting you , im giving possible reasons other than "they want to pay"

when you teach for free it automatically turns into father/son ,master/disciple relationship. even if you teach good, a lot of people dont want to get that close to you.

when i think about the guy that taught me for free, i often cry. he had the real personality and charisma, straight out of a storybook, and was a father figure to me.

other guys i learned from often are detached distant and dont want to have anything to do with their students after class.

[SPJ]

Most look like this: 30 to 50 people total. A lot of little kids, old people, middle aged but out of shape people, skinny as waif people, over weight people, one or two younger people with a bit of a hard edge look to them.

What's the Sifu to do? - he's got one or two with potential or desire to fight. It's worse if it's only one.

Truth is, we all know good to great traditional Sifu who have the skillz. Some post here. Occasionally good fighting students pick up the torch and continue the legacy. But something else is happening too because TCMA is losing it's reputation as a fighting art sooo - either they have the skillz but don't know how to teach them, or they don't have the students who are willing and able to learn, or they are teaching using a one size fits all approach that's obviously not working (talking about transmitting fighting skill only).

yes. most people are learning some physical activity for health and fitness

either yoga or tai cheeze

only a few are there to fight.

it is just like a private school of the old time, most learn to read and write, only a few are good and dedicated enough to further their education and become a scholar and teacher themself--

--

[ginosifu]

maybe you are not a good teacher, and when you teach for free people see right through you.

when you teach for free, people REALLY notice your true character and personality. if you dont 100% believe in what you do, it will show.

I have many Shaolin students that have paid me $149.00 a months for over 12 years now. I have an older Tai Chi gentleman who pays more $200 a month for more that 10 years now

When you can get people to continue training with you for years and years, you know you are a good teacher.

ginosifu

[JamesC]

I have many Shaolin students that have paid me $149.00 a months for over 12 years now. I have an older Tai Chi gentleman who pays more $200 a month for more that 10 years now

When you can get people to continue training with you for years and years, you know you are a good teacher.

ginosifu


Gah. The cost of living must suck in big cities. The going rate for martial arts here was only about $50 until a few years ago. It has since gone up to about $70.

[bawang]

mcdojos get paid a lot of money, taht doesnt prove anything.

money clouds judgement and makes student keep going, its a psychology thing.

im not talking about the legitimacy of your forms. im talking about your ability to inspire love, loyalty, respect, and brotherhood.

[SPJ]

because you are all weak omega males. we are alpha. we do what we want.

we are rampage jackson. you are ariel helwani.

I am weak minded to make choices

1. ipad2: iOS5 is coming with all the goodies

2. HP touchpad (jul, 2011): webOS with flash

3. Eee Pad transformer with android 3.1, duo processor, HD graphic, play content on HDTV, access to your pc and work on MS office files---

cannot make a decision to buy which one

ended up buying all three of them

sad for me.

me omega male

---

[bawang]

cannot make a decision to buy which one

ended up buying all three of them

sad for me.

me omega male

---

can you buy the vagine?

[ginosifu]

mcdojos get paid a lot of money, taht doesnt prove anything.

money clouds judgement and makes student keep going, its a psychology thing.

im not talking about the legitimacy of your forms. im talking about your ability to inspire love, loyalty, respect, and brotherhood.

Ahh. but my students go to win national titles and travel to China and Fight Chinese peoples. They like being a winner with my team!

How many national titles do you have bawang? None that I am aware of? We are a popular school with many students that go to tournaments and actually win! I am not bad teacher who takes peoples money, I am pretty good Sifu I have a couple of fighters that went amateur MMA a Shaui Chiao girl who has won national titles. We no cheat whitey.

ginosifu

[bawang]

if you are coaching for competition, of course you need to charge money. otherwise that would be weird.

but in traditional kung fu paying loads of money for a master disciple relationship is not normal.

[ShaolinDan]

If you've got love, loyalty, and respect for Sifu, you might as well give him some money too.
Not charging doesn't mean anything. Charging doesn't mean anything. Good and bad in both. But if you believe kung fu is valuable, well, then it should have value too.
Also, as a student, who wants to start for free? for free you are obligated...become obligated to some dangerous fighter you barely know? I wouldn't do that.

A good way is to charge everyone at first. Students who stay and prove themselves start to get extra stuff for 'free.'

[bawang]

If you've got love, loyalty, and respect for Sifu, you might as well give him some money too.


when do you ever need to pay your own father money? when do you ever charge your brother for monthly fees?

people dont understand the brotherhood in kung fu is not symbolic, its literal.


people simply cant handle the closeness when you teach for free. its just not normal in american culture.

[ginosifu]

if you are coaching for competition, of course you need to charge money. otherwise that would be weird.

but in traditional kung fu paying loads of money for a master disciple relationship is not normal.

I can agree with this if I were teaching in a traditional atmosphere, however then I would not be able to give my wife any money and she would kick me out and make me sleep in the garage.

ginosifu

[ShaolinDan]

The rent on the training space is not symbolic.
I pay $60 a month.
I also trade some work with my Sifu for some extra training.
I understand the relationship. My Sifu is currently trying to make the transition to teaching full-time for a living. I want him to be able to do that. I am trying to help. :)

[bawang]

which one of you guys ever had a studet relationship like cus damato and mike tyson?

frankly most students would be scared of that. they jsut wana dance or fight.

[SPJ]

can you buy the vagine?

ipad, touchpad, epad

they are 3 formats

1. apple, everything going thru itunes, it is like dictatorship

more apps, but close ended, technology of iphone grandiose

2. hp new to the market, but apps will grow, technology of tommorow

3. epad, google androids, open format, apps growing each day

sync seemlessly with all the web browsing and utilities

both 2 and 3 open for adobe flash players

--

sun set, sun rise, or mid day sun

--

I luv music and music video, so can not make a decision

video needs flash player

music needs itunes galore

what a dilema

--

:(

[Lucas]

pain and hardship builds brotherhood, this is a fact.

[taai gihk yahn]

which one of you guys ever had a studet relationship like cus damato and mike tyson?

frankly most students would be scared of that. they jsut wana dance or fight.

I have a very close relationship w my sifu, it is pretty much the "father / son" situation you describe; he literally took me in at a time in my life when I was very lost; when he teaches, you see exactly who he is, there is no illusion - this is because he embodies and lives his teachings: "utterly exposed"; when I have spent time w him in his home, w his family, he does not gild how he acts - he's had fights w his wife, consoled his kids, picked nose, etc. all right in front of me, w/out any affectation; his teachings are very classical; he has never compromised the integrity of what he teaches, either his taiji, his qigong or his Ch'an - it's always 1:1, even in group class;

I have always paid for lessons: teaching is his livlyhood, and I am proud to be able to contribute to supporting him (btw, he doesn't have to teach, he went to Princeton, he could have done anything); as far as the time outside of class I have spent w him, it was after I started doing bodywork on him - I'd come over, give him a treatment, and then we'd hang after; so it was a fair exchange, AFAIC (I volunteered to treat him, I told him i wanted to spend more time w him, and he agreed);