Permission?

[Brule]

I didn't want to get off topic from ginosifu's thread but his first paragraph got me thinking. I have always wondered why is there this mentality that you need permission to train with other Sifu's. If you say, it's the old school, then i say what about those who learned from various sifu's, ie: CTS as LKFMCDCANDMF has made it known more than once.

Is this simply another thing used to keep the student from seeing what others do with the fear of them having something better? or that these sifu's don't know what they are doing thus wouldn't want to be exposed?

Please help me understand........

[YouKnowWho]

You can learn from any teacher that you want. Your teacher can also stop teaching you whenever he wants. If your wife finds out that you are messing with another women, she will divorce you. It's just that simple.

[David Jamieson]

Coaches like to have their turned out product to be untainted.

In all sports endeavours, coaches prefer if you stay with them and get their stuff before going out and mixing and matching.

It is NOT just sifu that do this.

Crikey, ballet coaches do this, floor gymnastic coaches do this, fencing coaches do it, boxing coaches etc etc.

IN team sports? not such a big deal because each player is a cog, but in individual competition, it is difficult to coach someone who brings back material alien to the curriculum or that turns a positive into a negative by developing a bad habit somewhere else etc etc.

Hence, permission. It's not usually denied unless it is ill advised to train elsewhere.
Besides, it is also respectful and there is nothing wrong with showing respect to your teacher, ever.

[ginosifu]

I didn't want to get off topic from ginosifu's thread but his first paragraph got me thinking. I have always wondered why is there this mentality that you need permission to train with other Sifu's. If you say, it's the old school, then i say what about those who learned from various sifu's, ie: CTS as LKFMCDCANDMF has made it known more than once.

Is this simply another thing used to keep the student from seeing what others do with the fear of them having something better? or that these sifu's don't know what they are doing thus wouldn't want to be exposed?

Please help me understand........

I have trained with multiple Sifu's and I see your point. There are some old school rules of etiquette that most of us modern people just don't understand. Mainly this is a Chinese pride / losing face kinda thing. If you lose face in Asian culture you might as well cut your intestines out right then and there. Chinese people would rather die than lose face of you going to another Sifu. This means that he is not a good Sifu in the publics eye and no one will come to him in the future for training.

modern people are not quite as prideful but it still exists.

ginosifu

[lkfmdc]

You can learn from any teacher that you want. Your teacher can also stop teaching you whenever he wants. If your wife finds out that you are messing with another women, she will divorce you. It's just that simple.

Chang Dung Sheng was married to his Shuai Jiao teacher's daughter wasn't he? YET he still learned other stuff with other people

[ginosifu]

Chang Dung Sheng was married to his Shuai Jiao teacher's daughter wasn't he? YET he still learned other stuff with other people

If I remember correctly he hooked up with a Monk and learned some Shaolin and then learned Tai Chi from some general?? I forgot the whole story

ginosifu

[IronWeasel]

Chang Dung Sheng was married to his Shuai Jiao teacher's daughter wasn't he? YET he still learned other stuff with other people



I was told that Chang's Shuai Chiao teacher ENCOURAGED him to learn from other teachers.

[lkfmdc]

the plot thickens!

[hskwarrior]

through my personal experience, its generally looked down upon within the old community to jump from teacher to teacher. based on conversations with some on this subject, their opinions were its fine if you want to jump from school to school. i just won't get too deep into teaching a person like that. there is a line of respect they hold for those who stayed with their teacher till the end.

with as much cross training thats taking place now, kung fu has to realize this as a fact of life at this time and just hope for the student who wants all the teacher has to teach.

[SPJ]

It is a courtesy to let your teacher know that you will learning from other teacher.

A lot of times, teachers set up the exchange learning of the students. Your teacher recommend you to another teacher.

There were also exchange of hands first. The loser learned from the winner. Such as dong hai chuan in ba gua zhang.

There were also students exchange of stuffs. Teach you A in exchange of learning B from you.

Such as tai chi xing yi and ba gua mingle together.

[MightyB]

It is a courtesy to let your teacher know that you will learning from other teacher.

A lot of times, teachers set up the exchange learning of the students. Your teacher recommend you to another teacher.

There were also exchange of hands first. The loser learned from the winner. Such as dong hai chuan in ba gua zhang.

There were also students exchange of stuffs. Teach you A in exchange of learning B from you.

Such as tai chi xing yi and ba gua mingle together.

The above is close to how it was in my school.

Plus your instructor's probably been around the block and definitely knows the MA personalities in your town. Not only is it a sign of respect to ask - but your Sifu can also help you from making a big mistake. Maybe the guy you're thinking of cross training with has a bad rep - your Sifu would definitely have insight on that if they've been around for awhile.

[Lucas]

I think today if a teacher is going to teach a lot of people and run it like a business then they cant be too hurt if they are treated as a business.

[Mulong]

It is interesting, because cross training did exist and was actually encourage by the shifus; however, it was definitely not endorses in the States for one simple reason; it cut into the shifu’s profit.

Personally, I have studied with varies shifus within the United States and all of them have had more then one shifu; however, they all public stated the most famous one for their resume.

And from time to time my own students had studied with my friends and elders to enhance their skills; remember no one holds all the pieces to the puzzle. ;)

[David Jamieson]

you ever had a style jumper school hopper show up in your club?

they are a pain in the ass.

period.

they know the basics for tis or that, maybe, often not even that, make claim to "knowing" several styles and then proceed to move around like a pregnant yak.

yes, i suppose there are some greedy sifu out there who see it as a financial threat. As far as my experience goes, I know more sifu who have regular jobs than not and do not do it for that reason.

It is courtesy and courtesy isn't a bad thing.

[Mulong]

Actually some were so funny, because they actually thought they were “The Man,” and then concede to our training.

Jamieson, not certain where you exactly trained, but in the major cities it’s about the money. However, the elders had a way around it, by asking you to bring a letter from prior shifu giving you so-called permission to train with someone else; however, at the end it was so ridicules that after a while shifu didn’t care; want counted was the cash.

[Mulong]

This is so ridicules it is like the pot calling the kettle black. Didn’t Chan Heung (陳享), had three shifus, Jow Lung (周龍) had three shifus, and didn’t Wong Fei-hung (黃飛鴻) have at least three shifus too? Therefore, why is it wrong to have more then one shifu?

[omarthefish]

Unless you can explain the circumstances behind them learning from multiple teachers, it doesn't mean anything.

Usually there's a story there. Most importantly: did any of those people train from 3 shifu's at the same time? I doubt it. THAT's what's taboo. If you have "graduated" from a teacher you are free to learn new stuff. Also, often the other teachers are friends or acquaintences of the first. When that's the case, yes, permission is usually given. Sometimes, like in my case, massive geographical relocation makes learning from someone new a no brainer. In other cases, sufficiently high social status frees you from certain rules.

[YouKnowWho]

I was told that Chang's Shuai Chiao teacher ENCOURAGED him to learn from other teachers.
If your wife gives you the permission to mess around with other women, you are a lucky man. :D

In the movie "Little Big Man" that after Dustin Hoffman had sex with his wife's three widowed sisters, he was so tired that he could barely crawl back to his bed.

At 12.29.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4pwwp_little-big-man-partie-69-1970_shortfilms

[IronWeasel]

If your wife gives you the permission to mess around with other women, you are a lucky man. :D

In the movie "Little Big Man" that after Dustin Hoffman had sex with his wife's three widowed sisters, he was so tired that he could barely crawl back to his bed.

At 12.29.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4pwwp_little-big-man-partie-69-1970_shortfilms


Yes...sometimes I am THAT lucky!!

I really should be more thankful for my wife, her redhead sister, and my training.




....cue sanjuro with a pic

[lkfmdc]

I really should be more thankful for my wife, her redhead sister, and my training.

....cue a pic

this one

http://operatorchan.org/n/arch/src/n10265_2ontruck.jpg

[Iron_Eagle_76]

Weak minded fools who follow the barking orders of a conceived master are the only ones who would not train elsewhere because of the orders of their teacher. Most here live in the US or Canada, most of you are not even Chinese, yet you hold onto these false conceptions of a culture that you are not even a part of!!:confused:

I guess it's just like religion, for years a tired and idiotic dogma controls weak minded people into doing whatever they want them to do. Why the hell would they change it!

[David Jamieson]

Actually some were so funny, because they actually thought they were “The Man,” and then concede to our training.

Jamieson, not certain where you exactly trained, but in the major cities it’s about the money. However, the elders had a way around it, by asking you to bring a letter from prior shifu giving you so-called permission to train with someone else; however, at the end it was so ridicules that after a while shifu didn’t care; want counted was the cash.

I've trained in major cities across Canada.

Don't get me wrong, I've encountered the face game. I think it's stupid and reject it out of hand.

If nothing else, the rising spotlight on competitive martial arts and the real bloodsport show that it is on tv is changing everything about martial arts training and instruction. That's gonna KILL the face game and it's gonna rub out all the useless stuff in practical application martial arts.

there is still plenty of room for traditional training, but it is gonna have to step up to meet those needs of students who want to actually compete, ergo adding the san da component to the club regimen is key for those few students that will want to do that.

Having forms and classical instruction is key for those students who do not wish to compete, but do want to learn kung fu for personal reasons.

the more you can speak to, the better off you are as a teacher and as a business.

[lkfmdc]

I've trained in major cities across Canada.



there are "major cities" in that place called Canada? :eek:

[Taixuquan99]

The reason that Alaska isn't part of Canada is that they went up there, saw eskimos eating whale blubber, and assumed the Americans had beat them there.

Jim Gaffigan knows kung fu.

[IronWeasel]

this one

http://operatorchan.org/n/arch/src/n10265_2ontruck.jpg




I tried to think of a witty reply, but all the blood has gone to my ween!



....for some strange reason, I want to feed them.

[SPJ]

I tried to think of a witty reply, but all the blood has gone to my ween!



....for some strange reason, I want to feed them.

I am worrying about tires of the truck or pickup having enought pressure.

poor truck.

[SPJ]

you learn from every where

you learn from your classmates

you learn from your teacher

or teachers.

you learn from your mistakes

---

[David Jamieson]

there are "major cities" in that place called Canada? :eek:

When they let you cross the border after you get that "thing" cleared up, come check us out!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_100_largest_metropolitan_areas_in_Cana da


we have a few, yes. :)

[Hardwork108]

I tried to think of a witty reply, but all the blood has gone to my ween!



....for some strange reason, I want to feed them.

Hurry up, because women like that do not live for too long.... ;)

[Hardwork108]

Weak minded fools who follow the barking orders of a conceived master are the only ones who would not train elsewhere because of the orders of their teacher.

I believe that you are making too many assumptions about "fools" who "follow the barking orders".

First of all, there is a question of etiquette. A person who is considering training with another sifu, should at least pass it by his own sifu.

Secondly. People can't just run along and train or cross train in anything they wish. Presumably if you are training a TCMA, you are doing so with an expert. It is always good to ask their opinion about what you intend to train in, because there are cases where people seek to train in another style that has contradictory principles and concepts to the style they are currently training. So, if they have not got their core style into their "veins", then such cross training can result in the unnecessarily hindering of their progress.

Of course, this is no problem for people who are ignorant of a given TCMA style's body unity, rooting, etc. principles to start with, and are happy to treat any "kung fu" training as a type of glorified kickboxing.


Most here live in the US or Canada, most of you are not even Chinese, yet you hold onto these false conceptions of a culture that you are not even a part of!!:confused:
It is never too late to learn manners! ;)


I guess it's just like religion, for years a tired and idiotic dogma controls weak minded people into doing whatever they want them to do. Why the hell would they change it!

You are making a huge assumption. You can't just run along and cross train in anything you wish if you are practicing a given TCMA style. Asking your sifu, may even result in him recommending you to cross train one style, as opposed to another, as that style will be complimentary to the core style you are training with him.

Moral of the story is that etiquette can be beneficial to personal evolution. ;)

[Darthlawyer]

I could see an instructor wanting a student to hold up for a few safety reasons. In my school, the newer students spar at a safe distance so that their shots won't connect, the intermediate students begin to get closer and work up their speed, so that they can come close to connecting, but "pull" their punches for sparring. In my experience, when you have students who come from different disciplines or who are training at multiple places, they might want to "go" a bit harder than they are actually prepared to spar.

For example, I was sparring an almost brand new student who is about half a foot taller than me (I'm 6 ft even) and considerably more built. Since he had some other training, he felt that he had to spar harder an faster than he was actually capable of controlling hit strikes (compensating for going against someone more experienced). Our sparring got to a point where I had to just bow and take a break because I was having to respond to a level where I was almost fighting rather than sparring. I felt confident that I could have defended myself, but defending myself to a level where fighters can likely get injured isn't what sparring is all about.

I think folks who are training in multiple locations would be tempted to try to "show off" when sparring with other students, in a "I know this much more than you" kinda way, without necessarily having the same amount of experience and control.

Now, I think a high percentage of students of traditional martial arts are capable of keeping a level head, but I would understand a teacher wanting to have a student focus on just one discipline at least until the teacher knew the student a little better. If a student gets hurt, most teachers would lose 2 students: the one who is out due to an injury, and the one who lacks control so that he is a danger to the other students.

So, I think asking for permission is appropriate, but I also think that permission should not be unreasonably withheld. If a teacher has an absolute prohibition against learning other styles, I'd be concerned that they really aren't confident in their teaching ability/material/students to have them compete against other arts.

[ginosifu]

Brule:

Getting permission is not asking your Sifu and hoping he will let go train with someone else.

It is sitting down and talking with your Sifu daily, and looking at your long term goals. It was a good 7-8 years before I told my Northern Shaolin Sifu that I wanted to train Monkey with a different teacher. He told me the ups and downs of training with multiplr teachers, He told me he had the same conversation with his Sifu.

His Sifu (Kwong Wing Lam) studied several styles like Northern Shaolin, Hung Gar and Sun Tai Chi. My Sifu (John Ervin) has studied Northern Shaolin, Hung Gar, 7 Star Mantis and Shuai Chiao.

I myself still am a student of Northern Shaolin, Hung Gar, Angry Monkey and Shaui Chiao. I don't think it is wrong to cross train. I think it is a very good idea, however, be respectful and sit down with your current teacher and see what thoughts they have about cross training.

One thing I will let you know is that jumping around from style to style makes you a Jack of all Trades and a master of None. Spend a good amount of time in a style before you move on to something else.

ginosifu

[-N-]

One thing I will let you know is that jumping around from style to style makes you a Jack of all Trades and a master of None. Spend a good amount of time in a style before you move on to something else.

+1

Etiquette and eveything else aside, that is the practical reason why teachers don't want students to learn from others too soon.

No one wants to waste time with clueless know-it-all noobs that don't want to put in real effort.

[Mulong]

Indeed, you have individuals, who jump from style looking for the magic formula; however, they are individuals, who want to grow within their respective discipline and sadly realize that their shifu isn’t able to assist them on their personal sojourn in the CMA; therefore, what should this individual do? :confused:

[-N-]

Indeed, you have individuals, who jump from style looking for the magic formula; however, they are individuals, who want to grow within their respective discipline and sadly realize that their shifu isn’t able to assist them on their personal sojourn in the CMA; therefore, what should this individual do? :confused:

Be polite and thank the teacher for everything he's done for you, and tell him you want to move on.

Just make sure you're not the guy in this story...


Actually that reminds me of a story where he was betrayed and attacked by one of his own students. During the fight, he was about to blind the student with an eye attack. But he changed changed his move as he made contact, and used his fingertips to close the student's eyelids.


He should just sent another student (or students) to do that job instead of having to do it himself.


Kind of hard to do that if the guy just comes up to you saying that you have nothing left to teach him, and just outright attacks you.

[ginosifu]

Indeed, you have individuals, who jump from style looking for the magic formula; however, they are individuals, who want to grow within their respective discipline and sadly realize that their shifu isn’t able to assist them on their personal sojourn in the CMA; therefore, what should this individual do? :confused:

If you are not happy or are receiving the type of training or the Sifu can't give you what you want, then yes you should leave. However, we all should be talking with our Sifu's about our goals, needs and things that are important on a daily basis. A good Sifu can aid in your CMA journey, they can lead you to the right CMA Sifu, they can also give you introductions.

If you keep a good talking relationship with your Sifu, things should not get to that point of you feeling bad. There is no reason to stay with someone that can not help you reach your CMA goals. However, there is no reason not to be respectful.

ginosifu

[Brule]

I'm not saying about just leaving to train somewhere else, of course common courtesy applies. Just the whole "permission" thing annoys me and some just keep this silly tradition just for the sake of keeping a tradition.

[lance]

I didn't want to get off topic from ginosifu's thread but his first paragraph got me thinking. I have always wondered why is there this mentality that you need permission to train with other Sifu's. If you say, it's the old school, then i say what about those who learned from various sifu's, ie: CTS as LKFMCDCANDMF has made it known more than once.

Is this simply another thing used to keep the student from seeing what others do with the fear of them having something better? or that these sifu's don't know what they are doing thus wouldn't want to be exposed?

Please help me understand........

Brule , example you ' re learning from a sifu now , and you ' re asking your current sifu now , if you can train with other sifus too , he might accept it or he might not accept it at all .

Because if you train with other sifus without permission from your current sifu then , it ' s like the sifu you ' re training with now , is stealing you as a student from your current sifu , that ' s why . I went through this too in Hawaii where I ' m
from . But it ' s up to the sifu you ' re training with now . So that ' s why to learn from other sifus in general you might have to quit the learning from the sifu
you ' re currently from now , to learn from other sifus in general .

Because without permission from your current sifu , then he might have a talk with the other sifu you ' re from too . So it ' s just plain martial arts ettiquecy for you as a student too . And yes , the sifus will think that way too towards you as a student , that the other sifu you want to train under is better than your current sifu you were learning from before . If you understand what I mean .

In other words it ' s like you ' re currently dating a girl now , and without asking you to break up with her , she goes her on way into going out with another guy , and you happen to see it happening and you get upset and you confront the girl and the guy she ' s going out with . You ' ll think that the girl the girl who did things behind your back went with this guy because he ' s better than you .
The same way the sifus would think .

So the best thing to do is learn all you can from your current sifu first depend on what style of kung fu you ' re learning , some styles of kung fu have a certain number of sets you need to learn to get ahead . But learn all the priority things first , before you end up quiting the training under your current sifu first . Then from there , you can learn something new with your new sifu . This is just my own opinion towards your topic thread . But make sure that you keep on practicing what you really learned from your current sifu , as you go on learning new materials from your next sifu in general .

[Iron_Eagle_76]

I believe that you are making too many assumptions about "fools" who "follow the barking orders".

First of all, there is a question of etiquette. A person who is considering training with another sifu, should at least pass it by his own sifu.

Secondly. People can't just run along and train or cross train in anything they wish. Presumably if you are training a TCMA, you are doing so with an expert. It is always good to ask their opinion about what you intend to train in, because there are cases where people seek to train in another style that has contradictory principles and concepts to the style they are currently training. So, if they have not got their core style into their "veins", then such cross training can result in the unnecessarily hindering of their progress.

Of course, this is no problem for people who are ignorant of a given TCMA style's body unity, rooting, etc. principles to start with, and are happy to treat any "kung fu" training as a type of glorified kickboxing.


It is never too late to learn manners! ;)



You are making a huge assumption. You can't just run along and cross train in anything you wish if you are practicing a given TCMA style. Asking your sifu, may even result in him recommending you to cross train one style, as opposed to another, as that style will be complimentary to the core style you are training with him.

Moral of the story is that etiquette can be beneficial to personal evolution. ;)


LMAO, this coming from a guy with two years of training who's own Sifu called him a wack job!! Sorry if I don't listen to your "expert" opinion.:rolleyes:

[YouKnowWho]

Originally Posted by -N-
Actually that reminds me of a story where he was betrayed and attacked by one of his own students. During the fight, he was about to blind the student with an eye attack. But he changed changed his move as he made contact, and used his fingertips to close the student's eyelids.

Quote:
Originally Posted by YouKnowWho
He should just sent another student (or students) to do that job instead of having to do it himself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by -N-
Kind of hard to do that if the guy just comes up to you saying that you have nothing left to teach him, and just outright attacks you.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is why you should never teach your students the counters for your "door guarding moves". I had 7 of my own students challenged me in the past. To hide something from your students is serious matter.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I have n ever had any teacher tel lme not to train with others, of course I have always made it clear WHY I did and the majority of times it was to "cross-test" rather than cross train per say.
To a man they all said pretty much the same thing:
Don't forget to share what you have learned with your brothers.
I always did.

[ShaolinDan]

I don't know... I guess I think a teacher's goal should be to produce students who are better than he/she is. Otherwise the art can only degrade. Not that secrets should be given to everyone, but some students should be getting everything.

As for the thread topic: Ask for permission, just because it's polite.

[SimonM]

When I went to China I discussed at length with my sifu some of the martial arts that he did not know which I intended to study.

He had no problem with that.

He also encouraged cross-training in JJ, boxing, fencing, etc.

[ShaolinDan]

My teacher has trained with several different teachers, but he did get permission first.
I'm sure he will let me train elsewhere if/when I want to, but I'll still ask permission. Whether or not you want to follow this rule is may be about a larger question--do you just want the fighting methods, or do you want the 'trappings' too? Permission is one of the 'trappings.' The 'trappings' contain a lot of what I want from my MA practice, but if your only concern is combat, then many of them may be discarded.

[bawang]

only stupid cantonese ask for permission. real men do whatever they want.

[Taixuquan99]

It shouldn't be asking for permission. I should be informing.

Guys with more experience are easier to teach, even if the experience is mimicking form, they're easier to teach then rank newbies.

[Lucas]

I just wanted to inform you guys that I am The King now.

[Brule]

only stupid cantonese ask for permission. real men do whatever they want.

I see your mom has influenced you greatly. Good answer.

[Taixuquan99]

I just wanted to inform you guys that I am The King now.

Are we to assume the month long hiatus was a pill popping binge?

[sanjuro_ronin]

only stupid cantonese ask for permission. real men do whatever they want.

YOU'RE RIGHT !!!!
* bends Bawang over and pumps his ass silly !!!*
SPARTA !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !

[-N-]

This is why you should never teach your students the counters for your "door guarding moves". I had 7 of my own students challenged me in the past. To hide something from your students is serious matter.

Just because we teach, doesn't mean the student can learn. I don't hide anything. They hide it from themselves. Which sometimes frustrates us to no end. Like, how many times, and how many different ways, do I have to show and explain the same concept again and again?

One of the reasons we teach is to have a partner to train with. In that case, i want a partner that's good. Not one that I can beat because I left out some secret piece of information.

After that student(and his classmates) turned on my teacher, he was so disappointed that he kicked out all the students and shut down the school. Some time later he contacted a few students of good character and started teaching again, but in private.

[Hardwork108]

LMAO, this coming from a guy with two years of training who's own Sifu called him a wack job!!

Why do you MMA-ists/Kickboxers (TCMA clueless ones, at that), insist on lying when an actual TCMA-ist holds a position different from yours?

By the way, even if my kung fu training was only for two years, then it would have been two years more than you! Live with it!


Sorry if I don't listen to your "expert" opinion.:rolleyes:
And you should be, that is, sorry for yourself! I got more TCMA knowledge in my little finger than you do in your whole body. Live with it! :cool:

[Robinhood]

I think it depends on the teacher, their are many different teachers who teach for different reasons and are at different levels.

Some teach just to make a buck, and will not want to loose their pay check. These teachers probably are not teaching anything of any value anyway and will try to talk you out of other teachers because they know you will leave them because they don't have much to offer.

Some teach to improve themselves and pass on a art, they will not want the student to learn wrong things but will not restrict the students having to explore others to find out if he is learning something good and will give recommended teachers.

Some teach just to practice on others and don't pass on their art anyway, they usually don't care what you do.

But if the student is at a low level then changing teachers will not matter until the student gets some time and experience under their belt, and low level students can not tell what teacher is offering a full course or just partial path. If you are a low level student the teacher will not waste much time with you anyway until you show that you have learned the basics and are a serious student and he will not be wasting his time teaching you.

So ask your teacher if he says no, then you know you don't have a good teacher

[Lucas]

Are we to assume the month long hiatus was a pill popping binge?

I only took the blue pills!

[JamesC]

I only took the blue pills!

http://i.bnet.com/blogs/viagra.jpg

So you had a raging boner for a month? That sounds painful! :eek:

[Lucas]

Lol!!!!!!!!

[donjitsu2]

I didn't want to get off topic from ginosifu's thread but his first paragraph got me thinking. I have always wondered why is there this mentality that you need permission to train with other Sifu's. If you say, it's the old school, then i say what about those who learned from various sifu's, ie: CTS as LKFMCDCANDMF has made it known more than once.

Is this simply another thing used to keep the student from seeing what others do with the fear of them having something better? or that these sifu's don't know what they are doing thus wouldn't want to be exposed?

Please help me understand........

My Xingyi teacher encourages me to learn from whoever as does my Muay Thai kru.

On the other hand, I was politely "dis-invited" from training with a dojo/dojang (who I had been with since I was 10 years old) simply for working out with Mixed Martial Artists and owning (Un)Caged Fighter.

I think it boils down to how how securely you feel about your own teachings whether or not you care if students learn elsewhere.


Train Hard,
Josh Skinner

[bawang]

YOU'RE RIGHT !!!!
* bends Bawang over and pumps his ass silly !!!*
SPARTA !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !

i am sorry sir, i respect white people culture but i dont do the bong bong bong in the anoos. not even on tuesdays.

[Brule]

Why not tuesday's, oh yeah, it's toonie tuesday at KFC. Better catch him on a wed Sanjuro.

[Ray Pina]

Learn physics from one university professor... astronomy from another. English Lit. from a third.

Don't need permission. The secure with a good product don't care. The ones that care, you can do without.

Right now, is there an internal master that has himself, or produced a disciple, that has exhibited their ability to the outstanding level everybody fantasizes about seeing? An even somewhat competitively competent Kung Fuer? With distinguishing skills and characteristics?

Of course not!

Why put up with any bull$hit when you can train an awesome science for cheep, many times free, at a community boxing gym? Develop real heavy but loose hands. Awesome footwork.

They should be selling you! Why would anyone interested in real skill train Kung Fu today?

[David Jamieson]

Learn physics from one university professor... astronomy from another. English Lit. from a third.

Don't need permission. The secure with a good product don't care. The ones that care, you can do without.

Right now, is there an internal master that has himself, or produced a disciple, that has exhibited their ability to the outstanding level everybody fantasizes about seeing? An even somewhat competitively competent Kung Fuer? With distinguishing skills and characteristics?

Of course not!

Why put up with any bull$hit when you can train an awesome science for cheep, many times free, at a community boxing gym? Develop real heavy but loose hands. Awesome footwork.

They should be selling you! Why would anyone interested in real skill train Kung Fu today?


Actually Ray, you're wrong here.
You are looking for something to be gauged by the standards of some other thing.
It's a disconnect and a lot of people make it.

What meditations are you capable of? How long can you sit in meditation?
Can you lion dance? Any good at it? Head or Tail? How long can you go?
Can you use a sword very well? how much practice do you have with it? Can you compete with it? How about a staff? You any good with one of those? Ever used it in a fight? Spear? Knife?

Kung Fu is NOT a sport. I can't say this enough. Like yoga is not a sport and there is more to yoga than cougars in a hot room with massive camel toes bulging left and right.

there are 8 limbs of yoga, 6 of which are pretty much NOT practiced at all in the "western" understanding.

In Shaolin Kung Fu, there are what is known as the Three treasures.
They are Ch'an, Martial arts and Medicine.
Do you in you competition idea make room for medical competition? Zen?

I'm perfectly alright with sport fighting, boxing, wrestling, kickboxing etc etc. But on their own, like the fighting portion of Kung Fu, it is incomplete.

what more is there to sport fighting besides the fighting? You can only do that for a limited time. Then what?

When I'm old, I'll still have my kung fu even if I don't fight. :)

[JamesC]

Like yoga is not a sport and there is more to yoga than cougars in a hot room with massive camel toes bulging left and right.



You've crushed my dreams. ****.