whatchu think bout this "reality" training techniques?

[IronFist]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paPmon1mpF4&feature=related

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

That is first day Silat. It's pretty standard stuff.

[pazman]

Garbage.:(

[rett]

The guy throws cheesy marketing hype into his explanation. Anyway, it's irresponsible for a teacher to demonstrate offensive knife techniques on YouTUbe. I realize that Pandora's box is already open, but I lose respect for a teacher trying to get cheap marketing with knife stuff on the net. He should only show that to people he knows and whose character he trusts. I would never train with this guy.

[David Jamieson]

Training with shades on?

yeah, that's a bad habit any which way you slice it.

pun fully intended.

anyway, looked like a bunch of marketing hype.

fairly typical youtube offering in many respects.

[EarthDragon]

its simple basic HTH self defence stuff, once you learn it it goes no where.

a tree that has no branches is because it has no roots

[MasterKiller]

I would lick Addy Hernandez's pooper.

http://www.kifightingconcepts.tv/_img/ja/addy_profile.jpg

[Kevin73]

That is first day Silat. It's pretty standard stuff.

Yep, that is what he teaches as a base.

[lkfmdc]

Going at full force and overwhelming a guy who is just standing there... meh

doesn't prove it would work when the other guy is going just as hard, or when (as in a real fight) you aren't 100% sure what he is going to do

he also has the guy attaching him with bare hands while he's holding a knife... yeah, that will happen :rolleyes:

[Kevin73]

Going at full force and overwhelming a guy who is just standing there... meh

doesn't prove it would work when the other guy is going just as hard, or when (as in a real fight) you aren't 100% sure what he is going to do

he also has the guy attaching him with bare hands while he's holding a knife... yeah, that will happen :rolleyes:

Great way to go to prison the rest of your life. :eek:

[David Jamieson]

Going at full force and overwhelming a guy who is just standing there... meh

doesn't prove it would work when the other guy is going just as hard, or when (as in a real fight) you aren't 100% sure what he is going to do

he also has the guy attaching him with bare hands while he's holding a knife... yeah, that will happen :rolleyes:

Good points.

On the first point - Nothing is achieved really when this is done.

On the second point - It's true, you learn when your opponent provides resistance to the tech you are attempting

On the third point - Barring rage tards, yeah, nobody in their right mind is going to enter in on an aggressive knife wielder without having a chance to neutralize or end the confrontation quickly (gun/long weapon etc)

[Kevin73]

The guy throws cheesy marketing hype into his explanation. Anyway, it's irresponsible for a teacher to demonstrate offensive knife techniques on YouTUbe. I realize that Pandora's box is already open, but I lose respect for a teacher trying to get cheap marketing with knife stuff on the net. He should only show that to people he knows and whose character he trusts. I would never train with this guy.

Just thought I would point out that it IS marketing. That video is on Paladin Press's channel and it is a video that they are selling. So, I would assume that if they are trying to sell a product that there would be marketing behind it.

[rett]

Marketing knife techniques like this sickens me. I'm sure he's good at what he does, but... no.

[goju]

I really cant stand all this "reality" self defense crap out there. I think that was what caused Black Belt magazine to go under as they clogged their mag with every yahoo who came out with his ultra efficient, reality deadly, street, de3fense system and all it looks like is glorified women's self defense they teach at rec centers.

[Kevin73]

Marketing knife techniques like this sickens me. I'm sure he's good at what he does, but... no.

That isnt a video about knife techniques. It is a video about empty hand and he shows how the same motions can be used with a knife. That is his big push right now is "universal motions" that can be applied to a variety of situations and drills to train those attributes.

You can hear him reference the "slam set" at least a couple of times in the video. That is his creation taking different aspects of his training and putting it into a set that can be trained. The set is an empty handed one.

It's also not HIM marketing knife techniques. It is a seminar at his private school that another company is selling.

[rett]

That isnt a video about knife techniques. It is a video about empty hand and he shows how the same motions can be used with a knife. That is his big push right now is "universal motions"

I think that concept is good, and I understand what you mean about it just being an aside in this video. But still, putting the whole thing together like this, and with a bunch of wing chun wooden dummies around, the whole thing just struck me as cheesy and commercial and contrived.

I'm only describing an impression based on this one video. He might be a great teacher and very responsible and able to stop a prison riot but the impression this video makes is terrible IMO. YMMV.

[MightyB]

This is consistent with his slam jong stuff:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_t-Z4TuPXmw

I like his take on WC. Different - aggressive - and seems effective for his body type. He is a big brawler type of dude you know.

[Mulong]

Too much flash for tactical fighting; we should remember, his foundation is in kempo which has a leaning towards over-kill.

[IronFist]

I was talking about the empty hand part of the vid.

Would you guys do that stuff in a fight?

[rett]

I was talking about the empty hand part of the vid.

Would you guys do that stuff in a fight?

My impression is that this is an example of a really common theme in self-defense teaching. The multi-purpose entry/block/attack. Sort of the only thing you learn if you're not a fighter, just a civilian at a two hour class. There are different ones of these but they all typically involve charging into an attacker using an arm configuration as a shield with a relatively high probability of protecting you on the way in. You try to overwhelm and surprise a bad guy and nail him in the throat or something.

If I were really attacked on the street it wouldn't surprise me if I reverted to something similar that I trained a bunch just because it's in my marrow. But against a practiced fighter in a match-type situation... no chance. Well maybe if I got incredibly lucky.

[Kevin73]

My impression is that this is an example of a really common theme in self-defense teaching. The multi-purpose entry/block/attack. Sort of the only thing you learn if you're not a fighter, just a civilian at a two hour class. There are different ones of these but they all typically involve charging into an attacker using an arm configuration as a shield with a relatively high probability of protecting you on the way in. You try to overwhelm and surprise a bad guy and nail him in the throat or something.

If I were really attacked on the street it wouldn't surprise me if I reverted to something similar that I trained a bunch just because it's in my marrow. But against a practiced fighter in a match-type situation... no chance. Well maybe if I got incredibly lucky.

Agreed, it reminds me of Tony Blauer's "Spear Concept" that he teaches and now others have put out there as well under different names or pulled a concept from there art to highlight it was well. It is supposed to be for an adrenaline dump/flinch response and work off of that.

[Ray Pina]

Reality training would be them wearing gear and putting those principles to the test live... after all the talking and demonstrating.

[Ray Pina]

Demonstrate a technique 3 times. Let everyone train it for at least 20 reps a side, show three more techniques, let everyone train then again.

Then put on gear and let everyone do whatever they want to "get" the other person... that's reality.

When someone spends all the time talking and demonstrating = no one is getting the live repetitions that they need.

[IronFist]

My impression is that this is an example of a really common theme in self-defense teaching. The multi-purpose entry/block/attack. Sort of the only thing you learn if you're not a fighter, just a civilian at a two hour class. There are different ones of these but they all typically involve charging into an attacker using an arm configuration as a shield with a relatively high probability of protecting you on the way in. You try to overwhelm and surprise a bad guy and nail him in the throat or something.

If I were really attacked on the street it wouldn't surprise me if I reverted to something similar that I trained a bunch just because it's in my marrow. But against a practiced fighter in a match-type situation... no chance. Well maybe if I got incredibly lucky.

Why's that?

[Taixuquan99]

Why's that?

My take on it.

Drills like that are more about people who aren't accustomed to being offensive able to segue into an offensive approach. I'm assuming it's more seminar teaching as opposed to full on fight training.

My thought is that the move has its limits. Against an aggresive, stronger person(or at least a resisting stronger person), and especially one who is trained in fighting and so has a feel for the leverages involved, the smaller person is gonna have a hard to jamming them that way, and could collapse their own structure in the attempt. I also feel it leaves you open, after to the technique, for the opponent's other hand.

That said, most seminars are really about giving something for people who don't have anything yet. One type of move is never enough to deal with experienced fighters, you need options. That said, I doubt that's the entirety of what the guy teaches, just what that product is based around.

[Ray Pina]

Why's that?


Because even getting through the center and landing a clean, solid strike often is not enough to finish off a motivated attacker.... there will be follow up strikes, clinch, etc., etc. That has to be dealt with.

A fighter trains specifically for these transitions from ranges and to account for a technique being foiled. They have an A, B and C game plan from "static" positions if a punch or kick is jammed. Or even landed.

This is the difference between life training and only drilling. In drills, the first move always works and you just practice it again. In live drilling the double leg fails and you have to switch to a single leg. Or vice versa. Maybe even the single leg fails and you go to a sweep.

Its not only that you train the specific move thousands of times. You train the transitions thousands of times too.

I always say there is so much to train, which is why you have to guard your training time carefully and not waste it BS.

[Hardwork108]

its simple basic HTH self defence stuff, once you learn it it goes no where.

a tree that has no branches is because it has no roots

He is supposed to have a Wing Chun background. I don't know wether he claims to teach Wing Chun or not, but whatever the case, god help Wing Chun....:eek:

[Hardwork108]

Because even getting through the center and landing a clean, solid strike often is not enough to finish off a motivated attacker.... there will be follow up strikes, clinch, etc., etc. That has to be dealt with.

A fighter trains specifically for these transitions from ranges and to account for a technique being foiled. They have an A, B and C game plan from "static" positions if a punch or kick is jammed. Or even landed.

This is the difference between life training and only drilling. In drills, the first move always works and you just practice it again. In live drilling the double leg fails and you have to switch to a single leg. Or vice versa. Maybe even the single leg fails and you go to a sweep.

Its not only that you train the specific move thousands of times. You train the transitions thousands of times too.

I always say there is so much to train, which is why you have to guard your training time carefully and not waste it BS.

This post should actually end this thread (great post, Ray :) )!

[rett]

Why's that?

I wouldn't expect to be able to surprise someone like that. By that I don't mean to say anything bad about the technique itself. It's probably great but I've never trained it. I meant more the idea of trying to end something before or just as it starts with a trick or all-purpose technique. It's likely not to end there.

Edit: now I see there've been some great answers to the question. Read them instead :-)