World Sanda League

[WinterPalm]

Any of you guys seen this? I'm thinking about their May event. Looks like a step in the right direction for our sport.

http://www.worldsandaleague.com/

[WinterPalm]

Quick question: if you've done two san shou tournaments, and had 5 one round fights with a 3 min round...does that mean you do the A Class?

[lkfmdc]

I have such mixed feelings about this, but considering san da is so stagnant, maybe we should go?

[uki]

Looks like a step in the right direction for our sport.glad to see people see it's simply a sport. :p

[David Jamieson]

glad to see people see it's simply a sport. :p

It's never been touted as anything more than that.

[WinterPalm]

I'm going to check it out. I can't find any competition in this style in Winnipeg.
And yeah, it is a sport...kung fu has a lot too it and part of it is the sport: Sanda is the sport.

[Pork Chop]

suntzu was asking me about this
from the website, some of the gyms involved are a little questionable given what i've seen of their programs, even moreso given that they don't have any fighters listed on the site.

on the other hand, if it gets more events going, great.
my biggest issue is that this stuff is waaaay too regional.
if you don't live in cali, florida, or the northeast coast (ny, dc), you're probably out of luck.
i guess texas was making an attempt, but it didn't really seem to be run all that well.

it'd be nice if this was enough of a grass roots movement to help at least one rep from each state/region to work with other gyms & legislative bodies (athletic commissions, etc) in the area to put on regular events.

asking people to spend hundreds (and sometimes thousands) of dollars out of their own pocket to travel long distances to compete isn't really good for the longevity of the sport.
I doubt anybody will be able to keep that up for any length of time, especially in the current economy.

[WinterPalm]

suntzu was asking me about this
from the website, some of the gyms involved are a little questionable given what i've seen of their programs, even moreso given that they don't have any fighters listed on the site.

on the other hand, if it gets more events going, great.
my biggest issue is that this stuff is waaaay too regional.
if you don't live in cali, florida, or the northeast coast (ny, dc), you're probably out of luck.
i guess texas was making an attempt, but it didn't really seem to be run all that well.

it'd be nice if this was enough of a grass roots movement to help at least one rep from each state/region to work with other gyms & legislative bodies (athletic commissions, etc) in the area to put on regular events.

asking people to spend hundreds (and sometimes thousands) of dollars out of their own pocket to travel long distances to compete isn't really good for the longevity of the sport.
I doubt anybody will be able to keep that up for any length of time, especially in the current economy.

Yeah man. It's expensive but the road trip is fun...plus no mortgage and no kids.:D

Good excuse to go the Bahamas...

[MasterKiller]

Ron Davenport posts here (Citong Shifu). Maybe he'll chime in...

Personally, I'm not going to ask my students to shell out for a trip just to fight some C level traditional guys, but at least they aren't asking the fighters to pay entry fees (pointing the finger at you, Taiji Legacy!).

[WinterPalm]

So the competition level won't be very good? Aren't there quite a few good San Da/San Shou programs in the US that would go to this? Seems like a good idea for an event.

[Lucas]

if good fighters dont show up, then ya the competition wont be grade a. get enough good fighters showing up and you got your higher level competition right there.

the chicken or the egg?

its got to be attractive enough to attract the good fighters imo.

the best way to get something like this going well is to get a rich person to put it all up and have nice purses and attract ALL the fighters like flies to shizzat.

if i was rich i would totally do it.

Genes rich right?

haha :D

[Pork Chop]

that won't work, because getting fighters to go pro in san shou is kinda like pulling teeth.
Look at Max Chen (sorry to sell you out buddy), dude's got like 1000 amateur fights.
their reason for not going is simple though, there are even fewer opportunities for pro sanshou fighters to get fights than there are for amateur fighters.

[Lucas]

what if i was really really rich and made the top purse really really big?

[WinterPalm]

Being a C Level Traditional guy I'll have fun and maybe learn something. Hopefully some B Level guys show up to show me a thing or two!

[Pork Chop]

Being a C Level Traditional guy I'll have fun and maybe learn something. Hopefully some B Level guys show up to show me a thing or two!

dun worry he wasn't calling u c level
he was talking about that other tournament

[WinterPalm]

dun worry he wasn't calling u c level
he was talking about that other tournament

Oh I wasn't taking offense or assuming that. Just trying to have a little fun...but my competition level has been silver and gold at the Tiger Balms in Vancouver with one TKO. They were tough fights and I felt the 2nd go around was some well rounded fighters but how does one know where they belong? I don' train with any pro fighters...either way, if money permits, I'll do this and see what happens...

[Pork Chop]

There are some fighters that you can tell don't come from full time fight training programs; it's extremely obvious. You've probably seen some of them yourself, like the occasional guy who shows up to fight sanshou in a frog-button, cotton kung fu outfit; or the guy that's sporting dipped foam & worn out old Century gloves instead of decent equipment. Not to put them down, because they got the ballz to get up there and try, but they tend to be a different caliber of fighter than the guys that do it day in, day out. I think that's all MK's pointing out.

In the states the top of the food chain in san shou came from certain gyms. There were other guys who could hang & bang with them, sometimes they were from gyms related to the big ones, sometimes they were individuals from smaller un-established gyms, but it was pretty obvious that all those guys were training full time for the sport. It's a little bit telling when certain tournaments have absolutely NOBODY involved from any of these recognized gyms (except maybe the ref) and the videos that surface of the fights aren't to a caliber that one would normally expect from an experienced competitor coming from a full-time training program.

in other words: the competition you're facing at the tiger balms is legit.

[WinterPalm]

There are some fighters that you can tell don't come from full time fight training programs; it's extremely obvious. You've probably seen some of them yourself, like the occasional guy who shows up to fight sanshou in a frog-button, cotton kung fu outfit; or the guy that's sporting dipped foam & worn out old Century gloves instead of decent equipment. Not to put them down, because they got the ballz to get up there and try, but they tend to be a different caliber of fighter than the guys that do it day in, day out. I think that's all MK's pointing out.

In the states the top of the food chain in san shou came from certain gyms. There were other guys who could hang & bang with them, sometimes they were from gyms related to the big ones, sometimes they were individuals from smaller un-established gyms, but it was pretty obvious that all those guys were training full time for the sport. It's a little bit telling when certain tournaments have absolutely NOBODY involved from any of these recognized gyms (except maybe the ref) and the videos that surface of the fights aren't to a caliber that one would normally expect from an experienced competitor coming from a full-time training program.

in other words: the competition you're facing at the tiger balms is legit.

I know exactly what you're saying about guys training hard vs hobbists. This thing seems more hardcore than a forms tournament with 3 people doing San Shou...I guess we'll see...and yeah, having crappy fights, even though you win, is kind of a bummer if you pay to travel to the wang of America.

[Iron_Eagle_76]

This question goes out to Coach Ross or any other Sanda player or coach. Recently there have been some discussions about how San Shou/Sanda is dead in the US and how there are little to no competitors or events worth attending. I found this site recently, http://www.worldsandaleague.com/fighters_all.php, and although there is a large presence outside the US, there seems to be schools involved from the US as well.

What are some thoughts on this organization, it's events, the schools involved in it, ect. Do they actually put on sucessful events? Thanks.

[lkfmdc]

You will probably never see anyone who was part of the "Big 6" getting involved in that event because the people organizing it are the same people who killed US sanshou

It's like telling me "**** you" and then saying "oh, but by the way, can you loan me $30?"

Others may disagree with me (Sanshou Guru are you out there?) but I PERSONALLY think those individuals have no clue what they are doing, and in fact are dangerous

I also think asking sanshou competitors to pay more, a LOT more, for a crappy event where they are always treated like no one cares about them SUCKS DONKEY BALLS

It is exactly the same reason there is no more sanshou at the Arnolds; pay more than the forms people, get no where to warm up, the coaches being asked to pay EXTRA to get into the building, and then being told you have to stop your tournament so a Taekwondo guy can play the harmonica (I SWEAR that actually happened, I SWEAR)

[Iron_Eagle_76]

David, thanks for the response. It just seems sad to me when an organization such as this could actually be a huge promotion to CMA being involved and having it's own combat sport regiment. Boxing does it, Muay Thai does it, but not Kung Fu??:mad:

Just like everything else, politics f**uck everything up!!

[HumbleWCGuy]

What are they asking you for Ross?

I went to the Arnold's last year and it was there. It is still there.
http://www.arnoldsportsfestival.com/home/sports-and-events/martial-arts-festival.html

I would temper Ross's assessment with the fact that he isn't going to like it unless he can be in charge of it somehow.

[mjw]

Site seems to be hooked up with icmac for where and when they can do sanda they said no Sanda at their Chicago tournament because of red tape with the IL sports commission :(


"being told you have to stop your tournament so a Taekwondo guy can play the harmonica"
OMFG thats crazy!!!!

[Iron_Eagle_76]

What are they asking you for Ross?

I went to the Arnold's last year and it was there. It is still there.
http://www.arnoldsportsfestival.com/home/sports-and-events/martial-arts-festival.html

How many competitors would you say the San Shou division had? Were there several schools involved? I'm curious because even aside from what Ross has said I have heard from other sources that this event has gone downhill.

[David Jamieson]

It wouldn't be dead if it was simply promoted with gusto and wasn't looked at as a way to make bank and instead it is looked at as a way to forward the sport.

What does it take to get sanctioned?
What are the legal questions?
The rest is promotion and promotion is about saturation.
You have to be willing to go balls out to get the people to show up and pay to watch.

Having people pay to have a fight is...well stupid. I can see a registration fee to cover the paper work and payment to cover the doctor and any tests, but people entering a fight competition should be looking forward to making some money and not laying it out.

so ass backwards it's silly.

They need to be more professional, strong standards and get rid of the weasels and the roaches entirely from the game by making it totally legit. Nothing gets rid of the low life greaseballs more than actual legitimacy.

Back into the woodwork with them.

Dave, you don't do this?

[lkfmdc]

David, thanks for the response. It just seems sad to me when an organization such as this could actually be a huge promotion to CMA being involved and having it's own combat sport regiment. Boxing does it, Muay Thai does it, but not Kung Fu??:mad:

Just like everything else, politics f**uck everything up!!

When you have people who have no idea what fighting is about trying to run fighting events you are putting a car with no gas in reverse when it is parked with its rear end to a brick wall :D

tru2form anyone? STEP!

[HumbleWCGuy]

How many competitors would you say the San Shou division had? Were there several schools involved? I'm curious because even aside from what Ross has said I have heard from other sources that this event has gone downhill.

I grant you, the Arnold is not the ideal event for any athlete. It is poorly run, but the fact is, if you can win, it's a nice notch under your belt. I could not say for sure how many. I only watched maybe four fights. There were probably more, but my family was competing in Bjj and I was taking in the rest of the show too.

[lkfmdc]

Dave, you don't do this?

Two events happened at about the same time that killed US San Shou

First, the USA WKF, the so called national body for Chinese martial arts, DROPPED sanshou from their national tournament. It is a long and CORRUPT story about back room deals and BS, but the short of it was, no events you could go to at kung fu tournaments

We would have be fine however if Cung and I could have continued to run our events. Cung pretty much had everyone on the west coast active. I was running local events and doing an international event every two years

Then both NY and CA both decided that sanshou was illegal in their MMA ranglings

[lkfmdc]

Tournaments build fighters. There is nothing like a tournament. But people should expect to pay something for a tournament

The logistics and cost to run an event like this, which if done CORRECTLY is providing you with a great opportunity to grow and expand your skills, is massive

I have been out of the tournament scene a while, but back when I was, a forms guy paid like $50? So we had sanshou people pay the same. But remember, we provided QUALITY officials, medical staff, the equipment they fought in, and we made sure the event got plenty of press.

[SanShou Guru]

We have a wait and see approach to these events. Skrima who I believe is running these had some ok events in the past. I they can hold it together and it seems to get a toe hold then we would consider it.

The only Sanda we get now is when Ross brings his team up to Boston or we go to NY. Me mostly just tool on Muay Thai guys to have something to do.

[HumbleWCGuy]

Tourneys at low-levels will always cost participants because they don't bring in big gates.

[Snipsky]

I would temper Ross's assessment with the fact that he isn't going to like it unless he can be in charge of it somehow.

Ross doesn't act that way does he? :confused: LOL

[mjw]

Tourneys at low-levels will always cost participants because they don't bring in big gates.

Agreed or they need to bring in the alcohol sad but true.

[Dark Chi]

Ross doesn't act that way does he? :confused: LOL

No but you act this way

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10Wb52XXmts

Low level practitioners need not apply LOL