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SIFU RON
08-16-2011, 05:03 PM
In a recent study 500 undergraduates at the University of California were asked to compare printed books with e-books. Most of the students said they still preferred reading from books pages rather than screens. Many of the students commented on the difficulty they have learning, retaining, and concentating when looking at a computer screne. A typical complaint is " E-Books divide my attention.

It is easy to flip through the pages of a physical book, forward and backward. It's easy to go quickly between widley separated sections, marking your place with a book marker, thumb, or piece of paper.You can write anywhere on any page of a book. And when you just want to read, the tranquility of a printed page provides a natural shield againt distraction.

All sorts of modes of navagation and reading that are easy with printed books become more difficult with electronic books. A printed book adapts readily to the reader but an e-book requires the reader to adapt to it. People tend to be more easily distracted from screnes. There's always the temptation to click on a link, visit Facebook, or play a quick game.

What the survey tells us that it is rash to assume e-textbooks are a perfect substitute for printed text books. The printed page continues to be a remarkably powerful tool that's well suited to the needs of students.


Printed books, magazines, and new papers are in my opinion not going to disappear.

Lucas
08-16-2011, 05:58 PM
I refuse to buy a e-book machine until I cannot find books in print. Text books however I think should be, for revision purposes. I also like to gift my fav books out to friends.

MasterKiller
08-16-2011, 06:19 PM
I read books and magazines on my iPad. I'm sort if torn. It is very easy to get anything you want to read, but I worry about getting it wet, stolen, etc... So I can't take it everywhere.

rett
08-17-2011, 01:23 AM
I totally agree with this. Part of the problem may be bad habits from reading on the web. I'm used to quickly scanning whole pages to decide if they're relevant and then jumping on to something else.

When I sit down with a real book I can feel this distracted grasshopper mindset struggling with the book for a while before I get into that smooth reading feeling.

David Jamieson
08-17-2011, 05:46 AM
With the people that love the things, the things will go away.
That's just how it is, yesterday, tomorrow and today.
We don't fly old planes or ride horses any more.
We don't use typewriters and most of us don't
read papers.

Technology moves on, particularly in communication.

Books had a good run, they'll be around for a while yet.
But don't be surprised if in a couple of hundred years
absolutely everything is virtual except for food, shelter and water.
The rest will be some form of illusion to satisfy our desires.
But it will not be a manifest thing, it will be a projection that we turn on or off like a light.

The Sumerians liked their clay tablets...
Books used to be written by hand and were quite beautiful and ornate.
The printing press was viewed in many ways.

we fear change for the most part.

sanjuro_ronin
08-17-2011, 06:04 AM
I love to read and I have tons of books, a few bookcases full.
Reading is a total experience and it isn't just about reading.
The feel of the book and pages, the look of the font, the smell of an old book, those things are just not replaceable.
In June I picked up a bunch of old books at an antique store in Niagara-on-the-lake.
There was ****ens, Plato, Hamlet and a New Testament from 1825.
Its a beautiful experience to read a book and any avid fan, and true fan of the reading experience, will not find the some experience anywhere else.

SimonM
08-17-2011, 06:24 AM
The suggestion that print and e-books are in conflict is a false one. Authors are just selling both.

Publishers and agents are worried because a lot of them haven't bought the rights to electronic publication, leading to authors (including some of the biggest names; Rowling for example) pocketing a much greater share of profits.

But, from an author perspective, e-books and print books are perfectly able to coexist.

David Jamieson
08-17-2011, 06:26 AM
You make the salient point of it Simon.

Digital publication simply allows the author more control over their art and more ability to make direct monies from their work without the need for a middle man.

It also gives us terrific access to writings we otherwise would not have ready access to.

Jimbo
08-18-2011, 12:51 AM
I don't own a device to read an e-book, and at this point, I don't really care to. I like holding and reading an actual, physical book. Also, I suspect that there's more eye strain associated with reading too much from a screen. And although it's probably a negligible amount, I wonder about the radiation...but however small, it's going to be more than from an actual book.

I also wonder, if something ever happend to the electrical grid, if everything started to be published only on e-devices, so much will be lost, probably forever. Also, as already mentioned, I can easily go back and forth and highlight things in a book, and go back to it at any time I want without worrying about turning something on.

OTOH, the e-devices can save a lot of paper and space.

Ideally, we will have a world where there is room for both options. So many brick-and mortar bookstores are closing now due to the popularity of e-books, which, IMO, is unfortunate.

SimonM
08-18-2011, 05:02 AM
I don't own a device to read an e-book, and at this point, I don't really care to. I like holding and reading an actual, physical book. Also, I suspect that there's more eye strain associated with reading too much from a screen. And although it's probably a negligible amount, I wonder about the radiation...but however small, it's going to be more than from an actual book.

I also wonder, if something ever happend to the electrical grid, if everything started to be published only on e-devices, so much will be lost, probably forever. Also, as already mentioned, I can easily go back and forth and highlight things in a book, and go back to it at any time I want without worrying about turning something on.

OTOH, the e-devices can save a lot of paper and space.

Ideally, we will have a world where there is room for both options. So many brick-and mortar bookstores are closing now due to the popularity of e-books, which, IMO, is unfortunate.

Don't worry about the radiation. EM spectrum is non-ionizing. Fear of RF is a borderline tinfoil hat fear that has somehow poked into mainstream consciousness.

Brule
08-18-2011, 06:03 AM
I went to a used book store and got a bunch of the Destroyer books a while back and every evening sat in my recliner and read for about an hour. Since there are over a hundred in the series i went and got all of them in e-format. I have yet to sit in front of the computer to read any of them.

rett
08-18-2011, 07:12 AM
Fear of RF is a borderline tinfoil hat fear that has somehow poked into mainstream consciousness.

Are you referring to for instance cell phones? Because they cause interference with other electromagnetic fields. Since our nervous system consists of electromagnetic fields (with resonance properties among other things), it could very well disrupt functioning, even without damaging tissue.

SimonM
08-18-2011, 08:48 AM
There is no conclusive evidence of any sort of RF "radiation," including cell phones, causing any sort of harm to human systems, in fact, one study demonstrated heavy users of cell phones were less likely to get certain types of brain tumor than the control group.

People fear change and believe all sorts of nonsense in order to try and justify those fears.

rett
08-18-2011, 09:15 AM
There is no conclusive evidence of any sort of RF "radiation," including cell phones, causing any sort of harm to human systems,

There aren't many interests that want to find such evidence either.

I believe there have been studies showing that exposure to microwave radiation could disturb sleep patterns for example. Another that it stressed the brain in an analogous way to having a loud fan on in the room.

SimonM
08-18-2011, 10:08 AM
And yet, I used a cell phone as an alarm clock for two years, while in China, and it didn't interfere with my sleep.

I think some people want cell phones to be harmful because it will justify their unease with the technology.

However I've more respect for people, like one friend of mine who absolutely refuses to get a cell phone, who say "I don't want to carry around an electronic dog collar, I don't want to be connected 24/7," over people who invent health fears over innocuous devices. Frankly there are much more powerful RF fields EVERYWHERE than those put out by cell phones. As for actual microwaves, they have literally 1/10th the power of cell phones as far as RF transmission goes. Unless you are sleeping with your head touching a microwave transmitter you're not going to be getting much exposure thanks to the inverse square law.

GeneChing
08-18-2011, 10:28 AM
Tablets and smart phones are for the middle class and up. The lower class and the 3rd world nations can't afford it. It's really just middle class myopia that thinks print will die. However, in America, it's clearly on the decline. This is as much about the megabookstores as it is about tablets and smart phones. The collapse of the megabookstores was inevitable, something that the book industry foresaw on the onset. It's a classic example of the failure of monoculture.

That being said, I'm very excited about our magazine going to tablet via Zinio (http://www.zinio.com/browse/publications/index.jsp?productId=500626248&categoryId=cat1970036). I confess, I was skeptical at first, mostly because I don't own an iPad (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=60572) or an Android (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=61381) yet. But it's pretty cool so far. I'm really liking what I see there - it's a very exciting platform.

SimonM
08-18-2011, 10:37 AM
Tablets and smart phones are for the middle class and up. The lower class and the 3rd world nations can't afford it. It's really just middle class myopia that thinks print will die. However, in America, it's clearly on the decline. This is as much about the megabookstores as it is about tablets and smart phones. The collapse of the megabookstores was inevitable, something that the book industry foresaw on the onset. It's a classic example of the failure of monoculture.

That being said, I'm very excited about our magazine going to tablet via Zinio (http://www.zinio.com/browse/publications/index.jsp?productId=500626248&categoryId=cat1970036). I confess, I was skeptical at first, mostly because I don't own an iPad (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=60572) or an Android (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=61381) yet. But it's pretty cool so far. I'm really liking what I see there - it's a very exciting platform.

Excellent analysis. Pretty much spot on with what a lot of authors are saying.

The Borders collapse is still sending reverberations through the publishing industry, it was probably the most significant publishing related event of the year, and although it was related in part to technology (namely Borders selling the farm for online book sales to Amazon) it was equally a product of the giant box bookstore model in general.

In Canada our huge chain of big-box bookstores, Indigo / Chapters, is trying to avoid this by selling e-readers, book accessories, starbucks coffee and over-priced crap gifts.

So far they're doing better than Borders, but that's not saying much.

I still try to do my book-buying from small speciality stores when I can.

ShaolinDan
08-18-2011, 12:58 PM
Tablets and smart phones are for the middle class and up. The lower class and the 3rd world nations can't afford it. It's really just middle class myopia that thinks print will die. However, in America, it's clearly on the decline. This is as much about the megabookstores as it is about tablets and smart phones. The collapse of the megabookstores was inevitable, something that the book industry foresaw on the onset. It's a classic example of the failure of monoculture.


Does the 'lower class' buy books though? I'm 'lower class' and I love books, but, though I hate to say it, I see the 'middle' and 'upper' class as the majority of the book buying market (the books I buy are mostly used, so they don't really do anything to support printing).--I guess it is better outside of U.S.? But for how long?

Lucas
08-18-2011, 01:04 PM
i buy all my books here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powell's_Books), best book store i have ever seen.

SimonM
08-18-2011, 01:19 PM
Does the 'lower class' buy books though? I'm 'lower class' and I love books, but, though I hate to say it, I see the 'middle' and 'upper' class as the majority of the book buying market (the books I buy are mostly used, so they don't really do anything to support printing).--I guess it is better outside of U.S.? But for how long?

Though well educated, I'm hardly wealthy, from an income perspective I count as "lower class," "working poor." Books are a luxury I can afford.

Of course, as an author, reading a lot is part of the job description so there is the question of the extent to which they COUNT as a luxury but still...

Poor people DO buy books.

sanjuro_ronin
08-18-2011, 01:23 PM
Not a month goes by that I don't buy at least a couple of books.
More if you include the ones I buy for my girls.

ShaolinDan
08-18-2011, 01:28 PM
Poor people DO buy books.

Lol. I know they buy books (my background is similar to yours, Simon, except that I'm unpublished :o ), but do they buy enough? Used books don't count.
I know that outside the U.S., there are many countries that still have a high respect for literature among all classes, but I wonder how long it will be before they 'catch up' :rolleyes: with us.

SimonM
08-18-2011, 01:32 PM
Shaolin Dan I've been every sort of published except for having a book publisher publish one of my fiction books. I'd suggest don't worry about "getting published," just practice your craft, and if you can't sell to Harper Collins sell it yourself through Amazon.

(Just do yourself a favour - edit, edit, edit, edit first. Trust me on this, when writing a book-length work of fiction, typos WILL slip through.)

ShaolinDan
08-18-2011, 01:40 PM
Thanks Simon. Good advice.

Right now I'm working on a kung fu related project that will be online...hopefully I'll be able to post a link here in a few months...otherwise I've pretty much put everything else on hold.

SimonM
08-18-2011, 01:55 PM
Just start writing and do it every day. ;)

rett
08-19-2011, 04:08 AM
(Just do yourself a favour - edit, edit, edit, edit first. Trust me on this, when writing a book-length work of fiction, typos WILL slip through.)

I assume you mean if you go the self-publication route, right?

In that case, I'd say go a step further and be prepared to pay a copyeditor to put something like 50–100 hours into it. Authors are for the most part the worst possible editors of their own work. My 2cents.

If a fiction publisher buys your ms they should pay for that I assume; or have they gone the same route as academic publishers and dump the responsibility on the author?

SimonM
08-19-2011, 05:14 AM
I assume you mean if you go the self-publication route, right?

In that case, I'd say go a step further and be prepared to pay a copyeditor to put something like 50–100 hours into it. Authors are for the most part the worst possible editors of their own work. My 2cents.


If fiction publishers dropped editing responsibilities onto authors they'd be dooming themselves to complete irrelevance.

As for paying for 50-100 hours of copy editor time, that doesn't come cheap and some of us can't afford to do that, instead relying on the kindness of untrained friends and our own ability to edit.

Sad, but true.

rett
08-19-2011, 05:50 AM
Just in case you know off hand... How does it work in Canada? Supposing you decided to sink a couple of thousand dollars into getting a fiction work snazzily edited and then self-published it with a print-on-demand service. Could you be registered as self-employed and deduct the editing costs from your taxes?

SimonM
08-19-2011, 06:55 AM
You could, if there were any benefit in doing so. Our income tax system is progressive enough that if you aren't really making much in the way of income above the poverty line you won't be paying much in the way of taxes.

Furthermore deductions can't generally be carried over to future years. So you'd have to earn enough for the deductions to matter.

Brule
08-19-2011, 07:11 AM
Can anyone recommend a decent used book store in the GTA as i see a couple of you are from the area?

JamesC
08-19-2011, 07:12 AM
I have a kindle with about 30 books on it.

For some reason, I find it very hard to finish a book that I start on a kindle. The experience just isn't the same.

I've stopped using my kindle for the most part just because I don't really enjoy it as much. Books have always been my favorite form of entertainment and knowledge source.

SimonM
08-19-2011, 07:21 AM
Can anyone recommend a decent used book store in the GTA as i see a couple of you are from the area?

For speculative fiction I'd says don't go any ****her than Bakka Phoenix Books at Harbord and Spadina.

Best SF/F/H bookstore in Canada!

Plus - walking distance from Chinatown.