CLF Peng Zheng-Ting

[extrajoseph]

A nice documentary in three parts in Cantonese made by Guangdong Television on one of my fathers old friends, Peng Zheng-Ting, who studied with Chan Yiu-Chi and Ou Han-Quan and is now the head of the CLF Association in Guangzhou.

In the first part he spoke about the five sounds of CLF and the difference between northern and southern martial arts, the second part about some of the unusual weapons of CLF like the Nine Dragon Trident and the Steel Fan and the third part on lion dance and CLF footwork.

Good to see traditional martial’s arts like CLF is managing to survive and prosper in mainland China through people like him putting in the hard work.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjA7LzTuyYM&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFz8ygGyHIA&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BOwWL2XlwM&feature=related

[Snipsky]

Hi,

In the past as I've lurked around here I happened to noticed that many of the CLF players claimed that C.L.F. wasn't Choy Gar, Lee Gar, and Fat Gar at all. Um, didn't the first part of the clips state that C.L.F. was indeed Choy Gar, Lee Gar, and Fat Gar.

Why is CLF's history so sketchy?

[extrajoseph]

Hi Snipsky,

That is because people in the West don't understand the subtlety of the Chinese language well, Gar in this case simply means coming from a person of the family with the surname Choy or Lee or Shaolin in the case or Fut (there is no Chinese surname of Fut), it does not mean a particular style or a school of martial art. Even within Shaolin there are many styles, it is just a generic name for a person or a place, not referring to any style in particular. So Choy Gar simply referred to Choy Fook, Lee Gar referred to Lee Yau-Shan and Fut Gar to Shaolin.

CLF history is not sketchy, it is one of the few surviving traditional Chinese martial arts still have a direct descendant, that is the first male born, carrying on the family teaching for 5 uninterrupted generations.

But CLF history is controversial, because many branches have established since the Chan Heung founded the system, and some wants to break away from the family shadow and set up their own brand with their own version of history. In a commercially dominated society like ours, it is to be expected.

[Snipsky]

So are you stating that the documentary is incorrect in their stating that CLF come from Fat Gar? Lee Gar? and Choy Gar? And oh, um, CLF history is very sketchy. yes, Chan Heungs family line may still pass down their material, the history itself is really sketchy I'd have to disagree with you there. sorry. This forum has taught me alot about the history since the arguing has been going on for some time. I'm not gonna pick sides, but will stand on the history being sketchy.

[extrajoseph]

So are you stating that the documentary is incorrect in their stating that CLF come from Fat Gar? Lee Gar? and Choy Gar? And oh, um, CLF history is very sketchy. yes, Chan Heungs family line may still pass down their material, the history itself is really sketchy I'd have to disagree with you there. sorry. This forum has taught me alot about the history since the arguing has been going on for some time. I'm not gonna pick sides, but will stand on the history being sketchy.

The documentary is correct and if you read Peng Zheng-Ting's book 《广东蔡李佛拳系列丛书》he said the same thing, Lee Gar Kuen refers to Lee Yau Shan and Choy Gar Kuen refers to Choy Fook and Fut Gar Kuen refers to Shaolin Kung Fu.

If you think the CLF history is sketchy, may be it is because you are confused by the different version of history, Frank seems to be very clear about his version of CLF history, so I am sure it is not sketchy to him, nor is it for me and you heard both sides over the years in this forum, so there is no need to go over it again.

Besides this thread is about Peng Zheng-Ting, so lets stick to the topic.

[extrajoseph]

Peng's other CLF teacher Ou Han-Quan studied with Fong Yuk-Shu, Fong with Yuan Hai, Yuan with Loong Gee-Choy and Loong with Chan Heung.

Ou Han-Quan also studied with Chan Yiu-Chi.

[CLFNole]

Yeah but if you watch him you can see a lot of King Mui CLF but with a little bt of a different flavor. I always find it funny when other sifus question someone's lineage, I mean this isn't Paulie Zink :eek:

[extrajoseph]

In the documentary, he does teach in Futsan, may be that is why he remains you of Futsan. :D

[extrajoseph]

Sure, Futsan founded CLF, and it only has one CLF school.:eek:

[extrajoseph]

Do you want me to kiss his a$$ as well? Fat chance!:eek:

[extrajoseph]

Wasting my time here, better get up from this desk and do some training, enough for today.

[CLFNole]

The way that sifu moves reminds me of how our lineage looks different from the Chan Family/King Mui line. We come from the Chan Koon Pak tree as does Peng Sifu but both have different flavor from the source.

I have a feeling there was some change when CLF moved to Guangdong.

[CLFNole]

XJ:

Out of curiousity what do you focus on in your training these days. I am not sure your age but I was curious your approach to CLF as we age (I know you are not that old but can guess you don't train now the way you did in your 20s or 30s).

[Snipsky]

Not purposefully stepping on anyone's foots, i can see there are some serious differences based on appearance between the three lineages. good to see. or CLF would really be boring.

[extrajoseph]

XJ:

Out of curiousity what do you focus on in your training these days. I am not sure your age but I was curious your approach to CLF as we age (I know you are not that old but can guess you don't train now the way you did in your 20s or 30s).

Hi CLFNole,

I am in my mid-60s now so I don't focus on fighting any more, I train mainly for health, vigor and longevity these days, with my wife being 18 years younger I have to keep it up! :D

All the external forms can be done in an internal way and all the internal forms can be done in a lian-kung way and not lian-kuen way like when we are young. The focus for me now is on chi-circulation and not chi-utilization - saving my chi instead of spending it like there is no tomorrow.

I also pay more attentions to my diet instead of just exercising thinks it will burn the fat away. I was quite happy the other day when someone I met for the first time thought I was in my early 50s. :D

[extrajoseph]

The way that sifu moves reminds me of how our lineage looks different from the Chan Family/King Mui line. We come from the Chan Koon Pak tree as does Peng Sifu but both have different flavor from the source.

I have a feeling there was some change when CLF moved to Guangdong.

I think you mean Guangzhou the city, King Mui is in Guangdong the province as well.

[CLFNole]

Hi CLFNole,

I am in my mid-60s now so I don't focus on fighting any more, I train mainly for health, vigor and longevity these days, with my wife being 18 years younger I have to keep it up! :D

You go man!!! :D

[CLFNole]

I think you mean Guangzhou the city, King Mui is in Guangdong the province as well.

Yes I realized that last night after I put that in. I always confuse the whole city and county concept. Maybe I am wrong but I think Poon Dik's schools in China were in Guangzhou but not sure. Was Pang Sifu's other sifu from Guangzhou?

[extrajoseph]

Yes, Ou Han-Quan is very famous in Guangzhou。

区汉泉是广东省云浮县人，从1936年在云浮县开办“健民国术社”起，他踏上了传授武术的道路。此后，在广 州先后创办了“城西全义堂武术社”、“西山武术社”。几十年来，他培养出众多武术人材。其中佼佼者有国家级 裁判、广东省武术协会副主席、广东省武术队教练陈昌绵，1979年全国武术观摩会一等奖获得者彭正庭，广东 省武协秘书长董德强。第六届全国南拳冠军丘建国，曾在早期受过区汉泉的指导。此外，在历届省市赛名次获得者 中，区汉泉的学生还有：何驹、梁华添、洪永兴、麦浩然、彭志辉、黄湛荣、蔡锦棠、梁锦炫、区伟昌、何三妹、 洪少珍等。

Ex-Head Coach of the Guangdong Wushu team, Chan Cheung-Mian is also his student, and so is Dong Dek-Quong, secretary of the Guangdong Wushu Association. He produced many champions as well.

[extrajoseph]

with that lifetime supply of the blue superman pill im sure he will.

Frank, Don't need any blue pills to be a superman when I can practice the CLF Chao Taik Kung. Now I bet you don't know this set either.

[extrajoseph]

They have San Da now and Guangzhou CLF is not doing too badly. Puen Tong CLF in Guangzhou has all the hot heads, you should check them out.

[extrajoseph]

ya need to wake up from fantasy land. I've told you already, name any chan family form and i'll tell you again fut san hung sing does not practice one single form of the chan family. at all.


That is because you lot don't do CLF, you lot do Fut Gar Hung Sing, nothing to do with CLF at all, so stop using the name CLF, you wannabe.

[extrajoseph]

So maybe you are wannabe Hung Sing. you DID try to steal Jeung Yim's teacher Ching Cho. :rolleyes:

How can one steal something that does not exist?:eek:

[extrajoseph]

So what did your Ching Cho passed down that is not CLF?

[extrajoseph]

So the bottom line is there is no Ching Cho difference you can speak of. Just as I thought.

[extrajoseph]

So, let me ask you a question. are you saying the monk ching cho is purely a made up character of the Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon? be honest.

Frank,

I'll be honest with you, it is NOT made up by the Futsan Hung Sing Kwoon, it is made up by Chan Kam-Fa and his Sifu, if you look at the titles of contributers/organisations at the end this article claiming Jeung Yim taught Chan Heung stuff he learned from Ching Cho. Futsan Hung Sing Kwoon deliberately did not put their name there, they know it is not true:

http://www.hongshengguan.com/Item/25.aspx

資料提供:
美洲蔡李佛聯會
南美洲蔡李佛聯會
美國紐約鴻勝館
委內瑞拉中國武術總會
委內瑞拉蔡李佛聯會
委內瑞拉蔡李佛鴻勝總館
哥倫比亞中國武術總會
哥倫比亞鴻勝總館
智利中國武術總會
智利鴻勝總館
厄瓜多爾中國武術總會
厄瓜多爾鴻勝總館
巴拿馬中國武術總會
巴拿馬鴻勝總館
多明尼加中國武術總會
多明尼加鴻勝總館

[Shaolindynasty]

Peng's other CLF teacher Ou Han-Quan studied with Fong Yuk-Shu

Makes sense. I showed these videos to my sifu awhile ago and he really liked this guy. He also said the code words to the forms were the same as ours. We met a guy at the legends of kungfu tournament last July that mainly did Taichi but learned some choy lay fut from this sifu. He was a pretty nice guy, he did sup ji kau da during the group southern demo

[extrajoseph]

Yes, Peng Suksuk (Uncle Peng) is a nice guy.

[extrajoseph]

I asked you a direct question. when will you answer it?

Yet they used the information anyway. do ya think maybe they didn't want their names included for what ever reason? IDK. possibly. but still waiting for the answer to my question.

As I said, they didn't want their name to be included because it is not true and Futsan Hung Sing Kwoon would be ridiculed. Chan Kam-Fai and his Sifu used the Futsan Hung Sing Kwoon website to publish their claim, probably because they paid for it, and because they are overseas, nothing will touch them.

[extrajoseph]

are you saying the monk ching cho is purely a made up character of the Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon? be honest.

No Monk Ching Cho is not a made up character of the Futsan Hung Sing Kwoon, it was made up by others I name twice already.

[extrajoseph]

I don't have to go to Futsan, I only been there last year! I don't have to tell any body off, I just have to read between the lines.

[extrajoseph]

you know why you don't answer? cause you know **** well that MONK CHING CHO did exist and wasn't a character created by Chan Kam fai nor Chui Kwong Yuen


Then why Futsan Hung Sing Kwoon not put their name down? Instead it appeared a bunch of South American setups.

It is time for me to stop when you start using the "F" word, you take care, Frank. Get well again soon.

[extrajoseph]

Why are you mad about that? i know you're mad that Fut San has its own history to tell but thats your burden to carry.


I am neither mad, nor Fut San has made up its own history, only a few individuals did to promote their own agenda, and as you can see from the mentioned webpage, they don't have the full support of Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon as an organization.



I know you won't admit that Ching Cho wasn't a character made up by certain members of the Hung Sing clan.


There are no historical evidence to support that Ching Cho existed other than as an alias used from time to time.




So if Chan Kam Fai and Chui Kwong Yuen created the Monk Ching Cho character, how do you explain Monk Ching Cho being the founder of one of the largest and most powerful Tong in Canton and Guangxi?



There is no historical evidence to link this "founder of one of the largest and most powerful Tong in Canton and Guangxi" to Jeung Yim. So he is a made-up character, unless you can provide us with some materials to say otherwise.

Anyone can make up anything that they want to, but don't expect others to hold the same view without some primary source to back up their claims.

This has been going on for years and you still have not showed us anything worthwhile to back up your belief that Ching Cho existed as an individual and taught Jeung Yim something extra and special that he contributed to the founding of CLF.

Until you can do this, it is only your belief and your article of faith, not the actual history of how CLF coming being.

[extrajoseph]

Ps...Chan Kam Fai is a friend of mine on Facebook, i'll pass on that message of your accusations to him.

Go ahead, Chan Kam-Fai knows full well what he is doing and the agenda he is pushing. It is not an accusation, it is a fact.

[extrajoseph]

Alias? is that what it is? just an alias? do you know anything about his name?


Ching Cho is an alias and not a real name because no Chinese surname goes by the character "Ching". It is an alias used by many potential revolutionaries in Chinese history because Ching Cho or Jade-Green Grass is a color of early Spring, a time for renewal, which a revolutionary would aim for and like to use as his alias.



Actually, our history states Ching Cho gave Jeung Yim the Hung Sing name and there is evidence to this name being used prior to Jeung Yim. Do you know the slogan that jeung Yims hung sing name was derived from?


There is no historical evidence that Ching Cho gave Jeung Yim the (Great Goose) Hung Sing name. The slogan you used in your avarta for (Great Goose) Hung Sing showed below:

6485

it does not match the Great Goose Hung character used for Futsan Hung Sing, This slogan you used in your avarta says (Heroic) Hung Sing, when tranlsated it says "The "Ying" staff flies out like a dragon wags its tail and the "Hung" fist sends out like a tiger raises its head", is given by Chan Heung, it showed the two major emphasis in CLF training, which are the fist and the staff. "Yin Hung" stands for Hero in Heroic Hung Sing and it is different to the Great Goose Hung Sing you had in the middle of your avarta. The name and the slogan don't match and it showed how much you know about the Chinese language. :eek:


In HK, there is a triad group with the very same name given to Jeung Yim by Ching Cho.

"Great Goose" or just "Great" Hung Sing is a name used by a lot of secret societies in the past, including the triads, because "Great Victory" sounded very auspicious. There is no evidence that it is the same name given to Jeung Yim by Ching Cho.

[extrajoseph]

You wanna know where you guys fukked up? you guys tried to claim the Jeung Yim didn't come into CLF's picture until like what 1867? He was even called "part of the last batch of students". You have admitted that Jeung Yim was a twelve year old boy when he first went to Chan Heung. If we follow this line of history, Jeung Yim would have been born in or around 1855 and would have lived well into the 1900's. In fact he would have died somewhere close to the death of Chan Ngau Sing who died in 1926.


We have not "fukked up", whoever claimed Jeung Yim was "part of the last batch of students" is not one of us. Jeung Yim met Chan Heung when he was a boy and followed Chan Heung faithfully all his life.

According to Futsan historians, Jeung Yim took ill and Chan Sheng, his disciple, took him home to his village and he died there in 1893. Below is the Chinese source:

http://www.gd.xinhuanet.com/newscenter/ztbd/2011-02/17/content_22086819.htm

1893年，张炎因感染风寒，由陈盛护送回乡，在家病逝。 陈盛，又名陈国材、陈继盛，俗称牛盛，祖籍三水，1864年出生于佛山衙旁街大巷贫户内。


However, Jeung Yim's Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon is registered with Fut San as being established in 1851. that is 16 years prior to when you guys claim Jeung Yim coming into the CLF picture (1867). you guys claim it was Chan Heung who sent him to Fut San, but you still can't explain the school he already set up a decade and half earlier. So if chan Heung sent him to Fut San in 1867 then WHO sent him there in the mid 1800s?

are you going to now say "OH IT WAS A MISUNDERSTANDING, JEUNG YIM DID COME MUCH EARLIER AND YES CHAN HEUNG DID SEND HIM THERE IN 1851, OOPS OUR MISTAKE!??!?!?! " is that what you're gonna resort to?

The Futsan Hung Sing Gwoon was established in 1851, but not by Jeung Yim but by Chen Dian-Yuan 陳典垣, who went blind and Jeung Yim was sent by Chan Heung to take over the school. This was written up by the then head of the Futsan Hung Sing Gwoon, Deng Guang-Min 鄧光民, back in 23/3/1997 in the "Guangzhou Daily" newspaper under the heading "The Biggest Martial Arts School in China". You can look it up in the newspaper archive if you don't believe me.


IF you're still gonna skirt that issue, how do you explain Premier Zhou En Lai instructing Chen Yilin to write the official history dating from 1851 to 1949? and yes, i do have a copy of it. Guess what, HE told Chen Yilin to include Monk Ching Co in his writing. so even Premier Zhou En Lai knew of monk Ching Cho.

The official history says it was established in 1851, but Jeung Yim's name was not mentioned. He came in later and Fut San knows this, and we all agree Jeung Yim made it a great school and helped to spread CLF in this area to great effect. In China if Jeung Yim wanted to make it his school, he would have used the name Hung Sing Jeung Gwoon, but he did not because he was a faithful follower of CLF, so please don't debase him in trying to change CLF history to suit your own biased point of view.


and you still wonder why i don't trust you.....LOL

I don't care if you trust me or not, just give us some decent evidence to back up your claims.

[extrajoseph]

Actually, our history states Ching Cho gave Jeung Yim the Hung Sing name and there is evidence to this name being used prior to Jeung Yim.


Frank,

If you really want the historical truth, then you should go to Jeung Yim's own village to find out and not Futsan.

Jeung Yim first used the name (Great Goose) Hung Sing 鴻勝 not in Fut San but in Kong Men (I lived in this town for 18 months when I was very young), where he first went to teach in 1856. When Chen Dian-Yuan went blind Jeung Yim was asked to take over his post and he took that name to Futsan with the approval of Chan Heung.

(The Great Goose) Hung Sing name was not given by Ching Cho, Jeung Yim chosen it himself to distinguish his Kong Men school from the (Heroic) Hung Sing name used by Koon-Bak in Guangzhou at the time.

This history was given by one of Jeung Yim's own clansman by the name of Zhang Lian-Sheng 張連勝 back in the 80s and was written down by a researchers in the Sun-Hui Museum as a part of the research project done on the history of the region.

Did you know Jeung Yim also taught in his own village toward the end of his life? He called the school in his own village (Great Goose) Hung Sing Jeung Gwoon 鴻勝張館, it got changed to Dongling (Great Goose) Hung Sing Gwoon 東凌鴻勝館 only in 1999 and there are descendants of the "Inner Chamber" disciples of Jeung Yim still living in the Dongling Village (東凌 - Chinese character for Jeung Yim's village) to this day.

Jeung Yim's clansmen never claimed Jeung Yim co-founded CLF nor studied with anyone else other than his father and Chan Heung. I have been to his village, it is not far from King Mui, you can go there and find out yourself.

[extrajoseph]

Chan Koon Pak (1857-1916) was the second son of Chan Heung , founder of Choy Li Fut Kung Fu . After his elderly brother Chan On Pak passed away, he carried on the banner of the system. In the beginning, Chan Koon Pak wanted to become a merchant in the city of Kong Moon (modern day Jiang Men). His friends and family members persuaded him to teach the system of Choy Li Fut founder by his father. Under the constant pressure and encouragement, in 1898 he finally took the position to be the chief instructor of the Hung Sing School of Kong Moon.

haha. Jeung Yim died in 1893. According to the above, Koon Pak didn't take the kong moon until 5 years after Jeung Yim passed away.

Shady bugga you.....

Sorry, my mistake, that should be Chen Da-Ji 陳大楫, When I wrote this, I was thinking about Koon Bak's hassle about the Hung Sing name with Lee Yan when he went from Kong Men to live in Guangzhou. Different generation.

[extrajoseph]

IF you're still gonna skirt that issue, how do you explain Premier Zhou En Lai instructing Chen Yilin to write the official history dating from 1851 to 1949? and yes, i do have a copy of it. Guess what, HE told Chen Yilin to include Monk Ching Co in his writing. so even Premier Zhou En Lai knew of monk Ching Cho.


Can you imagine Premier Zhou En-Lai instruct Monk Ching Cho to be included in a local history? Give us a break, Frank!

[extrajoseph]

Hi Frank,

So Zhoa En-Lai has taken a picture with some Hung Mun big wigs, what has this got to do with your statement below?


Premier Zhou En Lai instructing Chen Yilin to write the official history dating from 1851 to 1949? and yes, i do have a copy of it. Guess what, HE told Chen Yilin to include Monk Ching Co in his writing. so even Premier Zhou En Lai knew of monk Ching Cho.

Sorry, but I don't have your wild kind of imagination, I need some evidence.

[extrajoseph]

Premier Zhou En Lai instructing Chen Yilin to write the official history dating from 1851 to 1949? and yes, i do have a copy of it. Guess what, HE told Chen Yilin to include Monk Ching Co in his writing. so even Premier Zhou En Lai knew of monk Ching Cho.

Frank,

You made the above statement and you said you still have a copy, show us what he wrote then. Show us how Primier Zhou knew about Ching Cho.

[extrajoseph]

Just as I thought, no show again!

[extrajoseph]

No Show and yet you want to test me? LOL.:D

[extrajoseph]

Did you know that when jeung yim changed his name to use this character 鴻 it has two links directly related to monk Ching Cho?? of course you don't know. you have to be a member of the society to understand the reasoning behind it.

I think you have to first show us Jeung Yim was a Hung Mun member and he changed his name for Hung Mun reasons. Otherwise it is just your hearsay and it is too secret for us non-members.

[extrajoseph]

I don't know whether he was or not, you reckon he was, so you have to show us when and how he became one. Your claim that he changed his name to Great Goose Hung Sing for a Hung Mun reason should be based on evidence and not on just that you said so.

[extrajoseph]

Hi Frank,

Even if you can show us Jeung Yim was a triad member, what that has got to do with your claim that he co-founded CLF?

[extrajoseph]

My claim? whats wrong with you? ALL of Hung Sing believe this story. its not my claim. its OUR claim.


ALL of Hung Sing? I think you are exaggerating here again. "OUR" is no more than a dozen people in the family of CLF.

The rest of your post is going over old grounds again, for example there are tons of material about Jeung Yim in the Chan family archive and a clear record of who went to Futan in 1851, so I will not bother.

The attempt to change history and to isolate Futsan from the rest of CLF is not a healthy thing in my opinion.

[extrajoseph]

According to our history, Chan Heung knew of Jeung Yims achievements. And since Jeung Yim came into his own, Chan Heung regarded him as a brother. perhaps a brother via Hung Mun in which they swore an oath to never forsake a brother. Therefore, it would not have been an issue for Jeung Yim to share what he learned from Ching Cho with Chan Heung. But once Jeung Yim returned to Fut San in 1867 this is when CLF developed a new branch. the rest is history.

Hi Frank,

We can go on and on and it won't get us anywhere, all I can say is what you lot are doing - changing history to promote the idea that Jeung Yim co-founded CLF, and that he:

• Came to learn from Chan Heung when he was a kid,
• Then he went off to learn from another teacher when he has reached adulthood,
• Then he came back a few years later to tell Chan Heung how to suck egg and helped him to co-founded CLF, when CLF was already established.
• Not only that, you lot also promoted the idea that he went off to set up his own school, with its own name, that is bigger, better and different from the rest of CLF, especially from Chan Heung's teaching.

...is turning Jeung Yim into an elitist and a "Fan Guek Jake" (a disloyal traitor) and you know what they would do to a "Bone Turner" in the Hung Mun!

I hope you realize that when you lot said Jeung Yim shared knowledge from another teacher with Chan Heung and subsequently he co-founded CLF with Chan Heung with this new stuff, that means Chan Heung was not good enough and Jeung Yim, the student, has upstaged and made a fool of Chan Heung, the teacher.

Everyone agreed, including the Chan family, that Jeung Yim was one of the three most accomplished disciples of Chan Heung. Sure, he was rebellious, but he followed Chan Heung and promoted CLF faithfully, and very effectively, to the very end of his life. He does not deserve the lies that you lot are piling up on him.

You are not telling us the history of your lineage; you are destroying the reputation of a very fine CLF martial artist, the very same person you want to promote.

I know you won't stop, but do think about the consequences of what you are doing to Jeung Yim, he does not deserve this, you lot can promote your Futsan lineage without doing this to him, making up things about him that are not true.

What the Chinese value most in TCMA is not just fighting skills but also "Wu-De" 武德 and "Zun Shi Zhong Dao" 尊师重道 ("martial virtues" and "show respect for your teacher and uphold your tradition"), please don't take that away from Jeung Yim.

[extrajoseph]

Tons of material about jeung yim by Chan Yiu Chi? NO THANK YOU. I will trust the very people that Chan Yiu Chi tried writing about.


Frank,

You seem to think Chan Yiu-Chi is the only person who keeps records in the Chan Clan!

You have never even seen anything written by him, yet you rejected him outright because you have some pre-conceptions about him, like you about me.

Boy, I am wasting my time here!

[extrajoseph]

Why are you even mentioning the date 1851? Chan Din Yau supposedly went to Fut San in 1848, not 1851. Jeung Yim went there in 1849 and officially established his school in 1851. See how you are nothing more than a misinformationist?

Does it make sense to you, two of them from the same school, went to the same place, within 2-3 years of each other, to teach the same thing in two new schools? Futsan was not a big place then and it takes a lot of resource to set up a school. Only one of them went and it was not Jeung Yim, he went later in 1875 when Chen Dian Yuan went blind. Chan Heung died in the same year .

[CLFNole]

Lets not forget the claim that Jeurng Yim trained with Lay Yau San. I am suprised XJ hasn't attacked on that one.

But you two carry on by all means...:D

[CLFNole]

I am not going to get involved with the history debate with the 2 of you but I liken the futsan claim that Jeurng Yim followed Lay Yau San to the Chan's Choy Fook was Ching Cho and leave it at that.

Is it outlandish, probably not but maybe he studied with every other famous sifu at the time when he was 5-12 years old. :p

[iron_silk]

I'm not CLF expert so I'll let you all decide: (a few of the performance is incomplete)

Sifu Frank: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4VEOAV_Rlk&feature=related

Sifu Joe Keit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pHrSudtUis

Excellent: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8nP9G5-YHo

Teddy Lai: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFZi9fiOyLQ

Another one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5TKy5ZuAYA

You get what I mean by now.

[iron_silk]

If its not outlandish then there could be some truth to it. how can we know now? I mean really, aside from Chan Heung saying he learned from Lee Yau San, how can we prove it? what do we have of that era that can prove this true? we can only go by what he said, right?

Iron Silk, I see you're replying to this. Forgive me if i don't answer you because this is just between me and my good old buddy EJ.

Peace brah.

No worries I completely understand.

I just wanted to share something since you brought up that not one form is shared.

I really think you two should finally make it official.

[hskwarrior]

So before you get your panties in a bunch Mr EJ, i erased all of my participation in this nonsense as i do not want to be part of the hatred,lies, and deceit that you ooze all over. it was just between you and I.

CLF does NOT need to suffer because you and i do not agree on the history.

[extrajoseph]

I just wanted to share something since you brought up that not one form is shared.


To me they are all doing CLF with different levels of skill, but you can recognize instantly that they are doing CLF because the seeds are there, even though the patterns may not be the same.

Could it be that Jeung Yim learned the original CLF from Chan Heung and not something else from Ching Cho? But his emphasis was on fighting and practical applications, so he worked more on Sanda combinations and drills and street fighting techniques and not so much on forms.

So over time, 3 or 4 generations of the same attitude, the forms passed down became different to other branches but only in the patterns and how they are put together, but the core principles and the essence of CLF still remained the same.

It seems to me a reasonable explanation why, on the surface, the forms are not shared but deep down they are the same and you can recognize them straight away as CLF.

If we look around, stylistic differences are common to all schools of martial arts. Why should all the forms with the same name be the same? We are not machines, we bound to express ourselves in different ways.

[extrajoseph]

So before you get your panties in a bunch Mr EJ, i erased all of my participation in this nonsense as i do not want to be part of the hatred,lies, and deceit that you ooze all over. it was just between you and I.

CLF does NOT need to suffer because you and i do not agree on the history.

Hi Frank,

To me, it is never between you and I, it is about how to show respect for the dead and how to uphold our tradition. You are taking it too personally, there is no need.

I spent my valuable time with you because I think your heart is in the right place but you need to think more clearly.

I just arrived in Zurich and have to start teaching early tomorrow, it is 11 pm here, so good night.

[hskwarrior]

Could it be that Jeung Yim learned the original CLF from Chan Heung and not something else from Ching Cho? But his emphasis was on fighting and practical applications, so he worked more on Sanda combinations and drills and street fighting techniques and not so much on forms.

Twisting the history will not turn it in your favor. But, to respond to this, Jeung Yim didn't have the time to sit down and create forms. He was training fighters, and testing his skills against challengers, fighting in the many revolutions of his time, running from the Government and spreading his art. So it totally makes sense that his lineage focuses on fighting more than performing.


So over time, 3 or 4 generations of the same attitude, the forms passed down became different to other branches but only in the patterns and how they are put together, but the core principles and the essence of CLF still remained the same.

I don't agree. You are just trying to tilt things in your favor. ALL schools connected to Chan Heung have evidence that they are from his school, lineage, line...whatever you want to call it. The elements of the Chan Line are very visuable but they are completely invisible within Jeung Yim's lineage.

Yet, I keep mentioning how you act as if Chan Heung created every form under his lineage when the opposite is true, even supported by Chan Family lineage members.


It seems to me a reasonable explanation why, on the surface, the forms are not shared but deep down they are the same and you can recognize them straight away as CLF.

You may recognize the SEEDS of CLF in our stuff because Jeung Yim picked up the SEEDS during his 5 year stint with Chan Heung when he was a young boy. Additionally, the Hung Mun elements found in Jeung Yim's lineage was not handed down to him by Chan Heung as well. So he must have gotten them from his teacher Monk Ching Cho.


If we look around, stylistic differences are common to all schools of martial arts. Why should all the forms with the same name be the same? We are not machines, we bound to express ourselves in different ways.

If you look around you will see that Chan Family related schools all share Chan Family Material (Not just the seeds). I mean forms as well. we don't seem to share those with you.

[hskwarrior]

Hi Frank,

To me, it is never between you and I, it is about how to show respect for the dead and how to uphold our tradition. You are taking it too personally, there is no need.

I spent my valuable time with you because I think your heart is in the right place but you need to think more clearly.

I just arrived in Zurich and have to start teaching early tomorrow, it is 11 pm here, so good night.

Nice, Doc fai Wong has schools in Zurich. ;) :D :D .......OOPS...i guess you slipped. LOL

at the end of the day, history or no history, we all are family. i don't know you personally, or do i ;) and i might like you as a person. we can always argue about history later.

[Marcelo-RJ]

Without prejudice: don't Sifu Frank and Sifu Doc Fai Wong share the same lineage of GM Lau Bun?

[TenTigers]

cool vids-especially since they were shown practicing Hung-Ga's Fu Hok Seurng Ying Kuen ;-)

[CLFNole]

XJ:

Would this sifu's name be Pang Cheung Ding in Cantonese?

[extrajoseph]

Hi CLFNole,

Peng Zheng-Ting's 彭正庭 Cantonese name is Pang Jing-Ting.

http://baike.baidu.com/view/4954168.htm

[extrajoseph]

Without prejudice: don't Sifu Frank and Sifu Doc Fai Wong share the same lineage of GM Lau Bun?

A good question, Doc Fai is his Sisuk, another embarrassment Frank has to deal with.

[hskwarrior]

Without prejudice: don't Sifu Frank and Sifu Doc Fai Wong share the same lineage of GM Lau Bun?

Yes Lau Bun was DFW's teacher for a few years. May i ask why you're asking?


A good question, Doc Fai is his Sisuk, another embarrassment Frank has to deal with.

EJ, why are you insulting DFW by calling him an embarrassment deal with?? WTF? He's doing a fine job representing the Chan Family.

[extrajoseph]

I am not insulting Doc Fai Wong, I said he is an embarrassment for you for being your Sisuk and doing a good job representing the Chan family.

[Marcelo-RJ]

Sifu Frank, I did not mean to raise any issue regarding GM Lau Bun's CLF school. I have only questioned about you and Sifu DFW sharing the same lineage because you mentioned him in your post and I really did not know that he had switched lineages.

Sifu DFW's body mechanics and the forms within his curriculum seem somehow peculiar, so I did not realize he was a Chan family representative. As I have only had direct contact with Chan Family and Buk Sing CLF, I thought he was a representative of GM Lau Bun's school.

Please, forgive me for not being as clear as I should be.

[hskwarrior]

Sifu Frank, I did not mean to raise any issue regarding GM Lau Bun's CLF school. I have only questioned about you and Sifu DFW sharing the same lineage because you mentioned him in your post and I really did not know that he had switched lineages.

Sifu DFW's body mechanics and the forms within his curriculum seem somehow peculiar, so I did not realize he was a Chan family representative. As I have only had direct contact with Chan Family and Buk Sing CLF, I thought he was a representative of GM Lau Bun's school.

Please, forgive me for not being as clear as I should be.

Nothing to Forgive bro. lots of people have this type of question.

[Eric Olson]

I am not insulting Doc Fai Wong, I said he is an embarrassment for you for being your Sisuk and doing a good job representing the Chan family.

Ooh, ouch, that one's gotta sting. :D

EO

[hskwarrior]

Ooh, ouch, that one's gotta sting.

EO
Reply With Quote

You're a fukkin IDIOT do you realize that?

[hskwarrior]

Originally Posted by extrajoseph View Post
I am not insulting Doc Fai Wong, I said he is an embarrassment for you for being your Sisuk and doing a good job representing the Chan family.

why are you speaking for me? I am not embarrassed for DFW he managed to do very well for the Plum Blossom Fed.

see how you're nothing more than a mere mis-informationist?

you know what's embarrassing? YOUR version of the history.

[extrajoseph]

why are you speaking for me? I am not embarrassed for DFW he managed to do very well for the Plum Blossom Fed.


Let me tell you why it is an embarrassment for you. Your Sisuk Doc-Fai Wong first learned from Lau Ban, he then went to Hong Kong to seek out Woo Van-Cheuk, who studied with Chan Ngau-Sing in Futsan in 1915. Chan was the most famous disciple of Jeung Yim, yet in that time no one ever mentioned Ching Cho until modern time; that goes to show Ching Cho was only a made-up figure and not part of your history as you claimed.

[hskwarrior]

Let me tell you why it is an embarrassment for you. Your Sisuk Doc-Fai Wong first learned from Lau Ban, he then went to Hong Kong to seek out Woo Van-Cheuk, who studied with Chan Ngau-Sing in Futsan in 1915. Chan was the most famous disciple of Jeung Yim, yet in that time no one ever mentioned Ching Cho until modern time; that goes to show Ching Cho was only a made-up figure and not part of your history as you claimed.

Funny thing is, you act like you just shared something with me. LOL. what CLF did Woo Van-Cheuk actually teach DFW himself again? well, since you don't have an answer I WILL TELL YOU. DFW was taught Tai Chi directly by Woo Van Cheuk, who, sent DFW to his classmates to teach him CLF. Woo Van Cheuk was 9 years old when he first trained with Chan Ngau Sing for only 5 years. Chan Ngau Sing died when Woo Van Cheuk turned 15 years old.

yeah yeah Ching Cho is myth....blah blah blah..... LOL Its funny how i have a ton of info on such a mythical person. At least we didn't lie about who ching cho really was. LOL
Made up by Chan Kam Fai and CKY right?

Also, "Let me tell you why". You still don't know what you're talking about. just like our history. you're clueless.

[Eric Olson]

You're a fukkin IDIOT do you realize that?

Don't get mad at me just because Joseph X schooled your ass :rolleyes:...again.

EO

[hskwarrior]

Don't get mad at me just because Joseph X schooled your ass ...again.

schooled me on what? you fukkin dimwit. you're as dumb as he is. you're just mad that CLF didn't like you LOL.......


I said he is an embarrassment for you for being your Sisuk and doing a good job representing the Chan family.

if you think the above was schooling me you're even more of a loser than i gave you credit for. you're childish and out of place because grown folks is talking. go sit in your corner and pout you pansy

[Eric Olson]

schooled me on what? you fukkin dimwit. you're as dumb as he is. you're just mad that CLF didn't like you LOL.......



if you think the above was schooling me you're even more of a loser than i gave you credit for. you're childish and out of place because grown folks is talking. go sit in your corner and pout you pansy

He's pretty much schooled you on ALL of the history stuff too. Admit it, you're out of your depth.

EO

[hskwarrior]

He's pretty much schooled you on ALL of the history stuff too. Admit it, you're out of your depth.

EO

LMAO...the blind following the blind. LMAO......the ONLY time EJ had me on the ropes is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back in 2001. Since then, he's my TOY to play with.

I know YOU are upset too that i've found the treasure trove of Green Grass Monk stuff. LMAO.

[CLFNole]

My questions would be:

If the style he taught was fut gar then why use CLF in the name at all? Why not keep fut gar or give it some different name? Why use the name of a style you practiced for a short period of time and was in its infancy?

[Eric Olson]

[QUOTE]

I was rereading some things EJ said from 2003 and felt it appropriate to bring it up again.

I totally agree with Lau, who ever he was. Not only has Hung Sing and Buk Sing elders (including Tam Sam) claimed Monk Ching Cho taught Jeung Yim Fut Gar, but we even have a Buk Sing Fut Gar school existing till this day.

On the other hand, we never tried to RENAME choy lee fut. Jeung Yim completed his training with Monk Ching Cho in the art of Fut Gar. Therefore he was fully able to teach that system. When Ching Cho instructed him to go to Fut San, Fut Gar was the only system Jeung Yim completed. When he was a secret student of Chan Heung (1836-1841) Choy Lee Fut was just created and still in its beginning stages of development compared to where CLF was when Chan Heung died.

Perhaps the reason why Chan Heung was left out of the history of the founding of the Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon (hung victory school) is because he never really had anything to do with it. The style Jeung Yim taught then was Fut Gar, it wasn't CLF. The Fut San Hung Sing Kwoon has NEVER stated in any history near or far that Chan Heung sent Jeung Yim there. We've always stated it was the monk Ching Cho who did that.



No one in Hung Sing is trying to be better than the Chan Family, or teach SPECIAL things that they don't teach (but they have towards us).

The Great Sage name is not the same as Hung Victory. Chan Heung's Great Sage is in reference to Hong Wu, the ming emperor without any obvious connection to the Triad society. Jeung Yim's Hung Victory is based off of a Hung Mun slogan with an OBVIOUS connection to the triad society. The same name was shared by triad tongs in guangxi and a triad family in HK, so it wasn't strictly used by Jeung Yim, far from it, it was indeed being used by other people and societies.



That's the biggest load of BS ever told. Where you're totally and completely wrong here is believing that CHING CHO was a buddhist name. I'll tell you that its not a buddhist name. you'll found out soon enough.

Look man, you can't have it both ways. As has been stated many times to you...if you want to separate your style from CLF (and all the history that entails) then just do it. As soon as you start calling it CLF then you have to acknowledge the history that MOST CLF practitioners see as the valid one.

'Jeung Yim Fut Gar' or 'Ching Cho Fut' or whatever you want to call it has no name recognition. You're going to have to start from scratch. Perhaps that frightens you and that's why you cling to the CLF name? Honestly, I don't know. But what I do know is that your clan can't just rewrite everyone else's history. It's a losing battle and people just aren't going to listen to it.

EO

[CLFNole]

Here is the thing, when you read what you write it reads "we are different from them", "nothing from the Chan Family is in our kung fu" and "we have our history and you have yours". With all that said it would seem to me that you would want to distance yourself from something you say you are not.

I think if everyone felt like you, hung sing CLF would have "seceded from the union" if you will and went out on its own long ago but it hasn't which leads me to think maybe some share your views while others might not.

[hskwarrior]

Look man, you can't have it both ways. As has been stated many times to you...if you want to separate your style from CLF (and all the history that entails) then just do it. As soon as you start calling it CLF then you have to acknowledge the history that MOST CLF practitioners see as the valid one.

'Jeung Yim Fut Gar' or 'Ching Cho Fut' or whatever you want to call it has no name recognition. You're going to have to start from scratch. Perhaps that frightens you and that's why you cling to the CLF name? Honestly, I don't know. But what I do know is that your clan can't just rewrite everyone else's history. It's a losing battle and people just aren't going to listen to it.

Speak when spoken you non CLF person. LMAO

and ....oh......STFU

[CLFNole]

i hear nothing but politics in all of that.

Hello pot...meet kettle.

Sup Gee Kow Dah, Ping Kuen...these forms show up across the board. Even though my ping kuen is different when I watch buk sing's ping kuen you can tell they have similar origins. Same with sup gee. Heck Tam Sam knew sheung garp dan tow kwun (single & double head staff). Your che kuen has similarities to minee don't necessarily in the exact pattern but in the overall basis and foundation of the form. We all have the same seeds, stances and kicks but naturally everyone does things different, we argue within our own school about how to do things so differences especially over time are a given.

The fact that forms and names are different is very easily explainable in my opinion. You said Jeung Yim studied with Chan Hueng for <10 years and he was focused on fighting and revolutionary activities. Well it would stand to reason he focused on fighting applications and combos and not forms. While I think there were some set forms back then I personally don't think forms were very popular back then. As the branches moved down generations later generations probably felt the need to have more organized forms (talking all branches here) and then various hand and weapon sets were put together independent of each other and thus different names and forms.

[Eric Olson]

Speak when spoken you non CLF person. LMAO

and ....oh......STFU

Whether you consider me a "CLF person" or not is irrelevant. It's obvious to anyone reading this thread (or your many others) that you're trying to have it both ways.

EO

[hskwarrior]

Whether you consider me a "CLF person" or not is irrelevant. It's obvious to anyone reading this thread (or your many others) that you're trying to have it both ways.

EO
Reply With Quote

Didn't i tell you to STFU once already? :confused:

[Eric Olson]

Didn't i tell you to STFU once already? :confused:

Whatever Ching Cho Fut :rolleyes:

EO

[hskwarrior]

Whatever Ching Cho Fut

EO

you're hella dense! stfu!

[extrajoseph]

The third law of human emotion: Every angry reaction can be caused by an equal and opposite deliberate action. :p

[hskwarrior]

deliberate

LOL It was deliberate alright. LOL.
question is who was being deliberate.

[extrajoseph]

That is because you are such a dumb toy to play with!

[extrajoseph]

Try to think clearer, Frank, and keep peace. We are all brothers here.

[hskwarrior]

That is because you are such a dumb toy to play with!

oh im sorry. did my comment bother you? Pls forgive.

[hskwarrior]

Try to think clearer, Frank, and keep peace. We are all brothers here.

yes, we are all brothers here. I have your back against a common foe. I won't judge you on your take of things. its not your fault.

[extrajoseph]

the ONLY time EJ had me on the ropes is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back in 2001.
LMAO.

Wow, it has been that looooooooooooooooooooog Frank, we must have met each other in our past lives. :eek: :D

[hskwarrior]

Wow, it has been that looooooooooooooooooooog Frank, we must have met each other in our past lives.

yes, EJ, LOL. we have been battling over the history for a decade now. OMG i really can't believe that. I do feel we must have known each other in the past as well man.

so as today is my birthday, history gets put aside and the party favors come out to play!!! :D:D:D

[extrajoseph]

You are kidding me, we both have the same birthday! I am about to go out to our favorite Cantonese restaurant to celebrate.

Happy Birthday, Frank!

BTW, I hope the next time I have you against the rope, you'll put on some decent deodorant! :p :D

[hskwarrior]

You are kidding me, we both have the same birthday! I am about to go out to our favorite Cantonese restaurant to celebrate.

Happy Birthday, Frank!

BTW, I hope the next time I have you against the rope, you'll put on some decent deodorant!

are you serious? Well happy Bday then Man. No wonder we argue over the history, we both think we're right. LOL.

i will, when we first battled, DEODORANT wasn't like it is today. LOL....... it just covered up the stink.

[CLFNole]

Happy birthday to both you!!! To many more years of debate!!!

[hskwarrior]

Happy birthday to both you!!! To many more years of debate!!!

thanks. and i really wish there wasn't any kind of debate at all honestly.

[extrajoseph]

Happy birthday to both you!!! To many more years of debate!!!

Hi CLFNole,

"Har Jeong Cheow Ong Choi" is the first dish on my list! Thanks for the good wishes. :D

[CLFNole]

Yummy...maybe have some "geurng chung loong ha" as well. :D (I know I butchered the spelling)

[hskwarrior]

Since its our BDAY EJ, bless me with some knowledge. please. indulge a fellow virgo for a bit.

What can you tell me about the Wing Sing Tong and its role, purpose, and what not. Trust me, this is a purely curious question. I know it was set up as a medical clinic, but was it used for any other purposes???

[extrajoseph]

You have to ask Chen Yong-Fa on this one, he has a clinic in Sydney's Chinatown called Wing Sing Tong as well.

http://www.hotfrog.com.au/Companies/Wing-Sing-Tong

and this is what one of his students says on his website:

http://choyleefut.org/medical


Medical

The practice of Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM) has been an important part of the art of Kung Fu for many generations. It has been said that a master’s Kung Fu is only as good as his Dit Da (Traditional Orthopaedic or External Medicine). Not only is practicing medicine an important aspect of aiding students in the recovery from training-related injuries, it is also an integral part of the theory of Lohan Qigong therapeutic exercises. These skills were integral part of the training at the Shaolin Monastery and this forms the origin of the Dit Da medicine practiced in Chan family Choy Lee Fut.

In the Chan family Choy Lee Fut Kungfu and Shaolin Lohan Qigong lineage, the practice of Dit Da TCM has also been a strong family tradition, with skills passed down from teacher to family disciples through the generations. Our Founder Chan Heung operated a Chinese Medicine Clinic in his home village of Ging Mui which he called the “Wing Sing Tong” clinic.

Master Chen Yong Fa continues this tradition, being a qualified doctor of Traditional Chinese Medicine and specialising in Zheng Gu or Bone Setting, and working previously in hospitals in China and, since emigrating to Australia over 20 years ago, in his busy TCM clinic practice in the heart of Sydney’s Chinatown.

Master Chen Yong Fa has spent many years teaching his disciples these skills of massage, cupping, and moxibustion. His teachings in TCM also encompass Chinese Dietary Therapy and Herbal Medicine, as well as the interaction between the body and the environment (Feng Shui) according to the Chan Family tradition. These skills are taught as a part of the Lohan Qigong Instructors Course, the Wing Sing Tong and Hung Sing Gwoon Instructors Course, and in the near future will be offered to all students as a separate course which is currently under development by Master Chen Yong Fa.

True followers of the Choy Lee Fut tradition should seek to learn these skills if they are to follow in the footsteps of Chan Heung and master the ways of the Shaolin Arts.

Dr Craig Davenport

[hskwarrior]

I'm trying to find out if the Wing Sing Tong was every used as a meeting hall for Chan Heung and other revolutionaries. its something about the name that makes me ask.

[extrajoseph]

Hi Frank,

I don't think the Wing Sing Tong was ever used as a meeting hall for Chan Heung and other revolutionaries, because "Tong" 堂 in "Wing Sing Tong" does not refer to a meeting hall, it refers to a family business name; in many of the famous old Chinese brands, like the Tong Yan Tong in Beijing (Tang Ren Tang 同仁堂) for selling herbal medicines, they used the term "Tong" to denote that it is intended to be run by the same family for generations.

If you want to study Chinese history, like the history of CLF, I would suggest that you study some Chinese, the subtlety of the language often give you a clue as to the background of a person or a situation.

I hope you had a nice birthday celebration like I did and put on a few more pounds! :D

XJ

[hskwarrior]

If you want to study Chinese history, like the history of CLF, I would suggest that you study some Chinese, the subtlety of the language often give you a clue as to the background of a person or a situation.

Right on. i don't suffer from lack of CHINESE to help me translate things, im in SF, a place with Many MANY chinese.

So i take it that you are claiming "WING SING TONG" (Hall of Perpetual Victory) is nothing more than a business and in this case TONG means business and not Hall, meeting place, and the like. COOL. I'm still gonna look into it.

[hskwarrior]

EJ,

don't think i'm going anywhere with this, but is the following true? Chan Yiu Chi was a student of Fong Yuk Shi? (sorry my bad) according to whoever wrote the following seems to think so. Personally, this was a first for me.


Fong Yuk Shi was a student of Lay Yun. Some of Fong Yun Shi's students were Chan Hon Hung, Lum Siu Larp, and Chan Yiu-Chi 陳耀墀 (Chan Heung’s grandson).

[Mano Mano]

Never heard of that before. Where did that come from.

[hskwarrior]

It was Wiki....i know i know....but sometimes people could post something official in there as well. i never trust it fully. thats why i'm asking. Now, i've heard Fong Yuk Shi once being a student of Yuen Hai, but ive never heard fong taught chan yiu chi....

[Mano Mano]

It was Wiki....i know i know....but sometimes people could post something official in there as well. i never trust it fully. thats why i'm asking. Now, i've heard Fong Yuk Shi once being a student of Yuen Hai, but ive never heard fong taught chan yiu chi....

I've never heard of Chan Yiu Chi being a student of Fong Yuk Shi.
If he had my sifu CLF would mentioned it to me when I trained with him, however that’s Wiki for you the free encyclopaedia of disinformation.

[JamesC]

How you guys remember these names is beyond me.

[Brule]

How you guys remember these names is beyond me.

Do you remember Gilligan, Skipper, Mary-Ann, Ginger, The Professor, & Mr & Mrs. Howell? See......:D

[CLFNole]

I believe Chan Yiu Chi, Fong Yuk Shu, Ngan Yiu Ting, Tam Sam and others were supposed to have gotten together with Chan Kook Pak to learn various dummy skills. Maybe the confusion was there?

[extrajoseph]

The place they gathered to train the dummies was in Arng Yiu-Ting's (Yan Yao-Ting 顏耀庭) home. Arng came from a rich family in Buen Tong (Guangzhou) and he was able to have most of the dummies built in one place.

[CLFNole]

But you never heard of Chan Yiu Chi learning from Fong Yuk Shu? I am sure they all exchanged ideas and techniques but I doubt it was anything formal (bi-see).

[hskwarrior]

But you never heard of Chan Yiu Chi learning from Fong Yuk Shu? I am sure they all exchanged ideas and techniques but I doubt it was anything formal (bi-see).

so are you saying CLFNOLE that its common knowledge that Chan Yiu Chi took Fong Yuk Shi as a sifu?

[CLFNole]

Frank work on your reading comprehension please.

[hskwarrior]

But you never heard of Chan Yiu Chi learning from Fong Yuk Shu?

look bro, don't insinuate i'm some dumb as$ . I don't go around disrespecting you, show me the same respect.

You asked the above fukkin question and i received it as if you already knew this. Therefore i asked if you felt it was common knowledge or not. I never heard of that before. your question makes it sound like you have. Your earlier comments were nothing but questions.


I've never heard of Chan Yiu Chi being a student of Fong Yuk Shi.

Mano Mano was fukkin clear with what he said. I didn't question his response!

[CLFNole]

"But you never heard of Chan Yiu Chi learning from Fong Yuk Shu? "

This is a question not a statement of common knowledge, so who put words into who's mouth?

"so are you saying CLFNOLE that its common knowledge that Chan Yiu Chi took Fong Yuk Shi as a sifu? "

Enlighten me as to where the fuk I said this...

[hskwarrior]

"But you never heard of Chan Yiu Chi learning from Fong Yuk Shu? "

YOUR above fukkin questions sounds like "what? you never heard that before? everybody knows this" My answer to the question would have been "No, have you?
". that is what it sounds like to me. Therefore i asked the following question. You NEVER said "NO, i never heard that either" or i would have never asked you the below question.


"so are you saying CLFNOLE that its common knowledge that Chan Yiu Chi took Fong Yuk Shi as a sifu? "

I asked you THAT question based off of "But you never heard of Chan Yiu Chi learning from Fong Yuk Shu? "

so don't fukkin try to make me out as some fukkin idiot.

[CLFNole]

Frank:

My question was a direct response to XJs prior post. Folllowing his with "but you never heard of Chan Yiu Chi learning from Fong Yuk Shu?" How the hell would I know? That is why I was asking him. Read XJs post then mine and it makes easy sense.

Then you call me out putting words in my mouth for something I never said and start dropping F-bombs when I question you on it

Give me an f'n break.

[hskwarrior]

Frank:

My question was a direct response to XJs prior post. Folllowing his with "but you never heard of Chan Yiu Chi learning from Fong Yuk Shu?" How the hell would I know? That is why I was asking him. Read XJs post then mine and it makes easy sense.

Then you call me out putting words in my mouth for something I never said and start dropping F-bombs when I question you on it

Give me an f'n break.

Did you address EJ in that question? fuk no!

I dropped FUK BOMBS cause you FUKKIN INSULTED ME man. I don't go around insulting you and I won't allow you to speak like that to me. So give ME a fukkin break. I could easily throw my own insults at you, but for what? what does it serve? You on the other hand....i really don't appreciate what you said at all.

* and all i did was ask you a question. I never said you said any fukkin thing.

[CLFNole]

I diidn't insult you it was meant more as a jab because I was a bit ****ed that you made it out like I am saying it is common knowledge that Chan Yiu Chi learned from Fong Yuk Shu, when I said anything but that. You highlighted and bolded "common knowledge" for christ sake.

[hskwarrior]

I diidn't insult you it was meant more as a jab because I was a bit ****ed that you made it out like I am saying it is common knowledge that Chan Yiu Chi learned from Fong Yuk Shu, when I said anything but that. You highlighted and bolded "common knowledge" for christ sake.

i WAS insulted by your comment. are you too dense to comprehend that?

what ever dude, i got you.

[CLFNole]

I wouldn't have said anything had you not called me out first. But whatever I got you too.

[hskwarrior]

I wouldn't have said anything had you not called me out first. But whatever I got you too.

You aren't even man enough dude to say "hey bro, i didn't mean to offend you. I apologize"??????????? that tells me alot about you as a person tho.

* I got you too~ NO YOU DON'T.

STFU ERIC OLSON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[brothernumber9]

Frank,
You don't think you just took this a little too much the wrong way?
English is an awful language in writing and can be picked up in contexts never meant by the author. This is easily what happened here.

I can see how, at face value, the phrase you focused on can seem like a statement For, rather than Against, the notion that any one of these CLF legends ever learned from the other as a student. I read it just the other way, that Lance had never heard of such a thing and was kinda asking for a co-sign on that angle. It's all none of my business, but you guys have had good discussion in the past and regardless of historical opinions are relative CLF authorities on these boards, at least where your lineages are concerned, and things shouldn't be ruined because of misunderstandings of contexts in writing. I'm just sayin'

[hskwarrior]

I can see how, at face value, the phrase you focused on can seem like a statement For, rather than Against, the notion that any one of these CLF legends ever learned from the other as a student. I read it just the other way, that Lance had never heard of such a thing and was kinda asking for a co-sign on that angle. It's all none of my business, but you guys have had good discussion in the past and regardless of historical opinions are relative CLF authorities on these boards, at least where your lineages are concerned, and things shouldn't be ruined because of misunderstandings of contexts in writing. I'm just sayin'

The problem wasn't whether he heard it or not. the problem lay with him saying something i found offensive towards me, insinuating i'm not intelligent enough to comprehend anything. Lance asked a question but didn't address it to anyone so i thought he heard of this. I just wanted to know if he did or not. but then he threw out and insult. it doesn't matter if he thinks its an insult, i'm on the receiving end and thats how i felt. He couldn't even say "oh, my bad".... I'd have accepted that. When i unintentionally insult someone I apologize for it. I guess thats where we're different.

[CLFNole]

I am not going to apologize to anyone when I feel I am defending myself. If what I said hurt you I am sorry for that perhaps I should have just said "please re-read what I said before you put words in my mouth".

If I am wrong I am wrong and will admit it plain and simple but please don't act like you don't have any culpability in all this as it insults my intelligence.

For what its worth I still have no ill will towards you but I stand up for what I believe in, as do you.

Fair enough?

[sanjuro_ronin]

Personal attacks have been deleted don't make me lock the thread.

[CLFNole]

There have been no personal attacks here just a bit a arguing. Well maybe Frank and Eric but that doesn't count, right Frank?

[sanjuro_ronin]

There have been no personal attacks here just a bit a arguing. Well maybe Frank and Eric but that doesn't count, right Frank?

Hence the posts were deleted and the thread NOT locked, just keep it civil guys.

[hskwarrior]

I am not going to apologize to anyone when I feel I am defending myself. If what I said hurt you I am sorry for that perhaps I should have just said "please re-read what I said before you put words in my mouth".

If I am wrong I am wrong and will admit it plain and simple but please don't act like you don't have any culpability in all this as it insults my intelligence.

For what its worth I still have no ill will towards you but I stand up for what I believe in, as do you.

Fair enough?

Let's get something straight. you didn't "HURT MY FEELINGS" you insulted my intelligence by implying I wasn't intelligent enough to comprehend what you said. If you worded it differently we wouldn't be here right now. I wasn't even jumping on you, i high lighted what i did cause i was trying to ask if you knew it already. that's it. then your insult upset me because i don't talk to you that way. and here we are.

See, i don't like Eric Olson, so i have no issue with insulting him. at times i don't like EJ but i realize its only over history and we don't really know each other and at least HE is a real CLF brother, so i don't take him personally. But you lance, i don't speak to you in a foul manner regardless of what you believe or don't believe in regards to this history BS. That's when i dropped fuk bomb after fuk bomb ...not just because i like saying FUK!!! lol

Awe man, who took down Eric Olson's "I'm a gangsta b1tch! photo?" (head bowed, hands in pokets, kickin' rocks while walking into the horizon).

[CLFNole]

Fair enough...it was a bit of misunderstanding on both sides. I took it as you were making it look like I was trying to stir up something by saying Chan Yiu Chi called Fong Yuk Shu "sifu", which we both know would be a strong accusation and get me in deep do-do. So lets say I was a little ****ed and the Italian temper took over.

So hopefully no hard feelings. I wasn't trying to insult your intelligence I was just being a wise-arse; however when typing that can backfire and be interpreting wrongly.

[CLFNole]

I have to head to the school to practice then teach so I am out of here for a while so peace out.

[hskwarrior]

Does anyone else really understand the Italian/Sicilian temper? do they ...do YOU know how hard it is to calm down once its triggered? fair enough....squashed!

[sanjuro_ronin]

Warned you guys