CLF "the great syntheses style"

[Mulong]

I truly admire Choy Leih Faht/Cai Li Fo (蔡李佛), because it is one of the few disciplines that have the uncanny ability to synthesize other styles/influences so coherent that the finial product has no loosened, and simply looks like CLF.

Curious, how many architects has CLF had after Chahn Heung/Chen Xing (陳享) passing? :)

[jdhowland]

I truly admire Choy Leih Faht/Cai Li Fo (蔡李佛), because it is one of the few disciplines that have the uncanny ability to synthesize other styles/influences so coherent that the finial product has no loosened, and simply looks like CLF.

Curious, how many architects has CLF had after Chahn Heung/Chen Xing (陳享) passing? :)

Hundreds, by now. As my sifu said, "Every generation changes it a little."

You bring up a good point. I like to say that a coherent eclectic system is one that has first passed through the central nervous system of an experienced fighter.

The current trend of grab bag techniques (exemplified by a guy I met once who claimed he taught karate and taiji and Hung Ga and Wing Chun) lack affinity and a student of such a mess may be more confused than enabled by the training. Fighting experience has a way of knocking the chaff off the wheat and develops the elusive sense of a style.

Chan Heung managed this beautifully. Many others did as well, so we now have Hung Fut, Tai Chi Praying Mantis, Lama Pai and others that are perfectly self-consistent in their blendings.

[Mulong]

Such style as, huhng ga kyuhn/hongjiaquan (洪家拳) is obvious a synthesize style, but sadly isn’t as fluid as CLF.

For example, tiger crane double shape fist or fu hohk seung yihng kyuhn/huheshuangxingquan (虎鶴雙形拳); one is able to see Fujian/iron thread influences in the beginning which is followed by the working character section, then the tiger section, etc. However, none of section flow into one another per se; you really have to stop and restart to complete the form, but CLF normally flows without a thread sticking out which shows the understanding and delicateness of the architects of the style.

[jdhowland]

Such style as, huhng ga kyuhn/hongjiaquan (洪家拳) is obvious a synthesize style, but sadly isn’t as fluid as CLF.

For example, tiger crane double shape fist or fu hohk seung yihng kyuhn/huheshuangxingquan (虎鶴雙形拳); one is able to see Fujian/iron thread influences in the beginning which is followed by the working character section, then the tiger section, etc. However, none of section flow into one another per se; you really have to stop and restart to complete the form, but CLF normally flows without a thread sticking out which shows the understanding and delicateness of the architects of the style.

I see your point, but remember that the sets do not dictate the method of movement. Many are artistic records of influences. This doesn't mean that a Hung practitioner will be choppy in his movement. The training goes way beyond the standardized forms. For example, my CLF Che Kyuhn (Ng Leun Kyuhn) is divided into three sections, showing the typical stages of progress in training from larger to smaller movements, but no inconsistency in how power is generated. Each section has a different flavor.

On the other hand good systems do retain historical baggage sometimes. My Hap Ga used to include Ng Ying Kyuhn. Everyone in my branch dropped it because it didn't feel right for our system even though it was historically valid. The techniques were already there in other sets so it was considered redundant. But even if we had retained it it wouldn't compromise the way we move.

[Mulong]

This doesn't mean that a Hung practitioner will be choppy in his movement.

Indeed, not, but it will be nice to have at least one set that is fluid from start to end. :(

[jdhowland]

Indeed, not, but it will be nice to have at least one set that is fluid from start to end.:(

Yeah, I know what you mean. It has certain advantages in teaching "flow." Even though our basics are all Hop Ga, when I introduce students to combination drills I almost always begin with Choy Lei Faht methods. This is because many of my students have had previous experience with schools that emphasize drills by the numbers: "He does this, so you do that, then you can finish up with this cool technique." Its sometimes hard to break people free from the "one-two-three" thinking.

CLF is one of the best systems I know of for teaching fluid movement with continuous power.

[Howard]

CLF is fun.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Lets not forget that some sets in HK can be "stand alone" sets, and Fu-Hok is one of them, hince you get "a lot more" than just a fighting set.
That said, I think that CLF is many times underrated and it is erroneously viewed by some as simply "chinese karate".

[hskwarrior]

That said, I think that CLF is many times underrated and it is erroneously viewed by some as simply "chinese karate".

thats a first for me in 30 years. who is it that thinks CLF is a chinese karate?

[sanjuro_ronin]

thats a first for me in 30 years. who is it that thinks CLF is a chinese karate?

Non-clf people.

[hskwarrior]

Non-clf people.

why? CLF is soft and fluid, karate is a hard style. wow, i can't believe that i've never heard that before. it doesn't make sense, i think its pretty obvious its not like it at all.

i did a google search and couldn't find anything at all to reflect that

[CLFNole]

Maybe people who don't know their arse from their elbow, but any southern kung fu practioner knows what CLF is for the most part. Now when you get into northern China it is not known very well and maybe Taiwan also.

The "chinese karate" is a first for me also.

[Jimbo]

I've actually heard of two CMA's being referred to as "Chinese karate" or "karate-like" at different times by people who weren't too knowledgable; Hung Gar and Hsing-I. But I've not heard of CLF referred to in that way. Ironically enough, my Kenpo teacher in the '70s had "Chinese karate" on his sign.

I will say that I've met a number of people from China (usually northerners) that haven't heard of CLF. They've heard of Taiji, of course; maybe Bagua or Eagle Claw, Wing Chun, etc., but if you say CLF (in Cantonese or in Mandarin) they look at you like you spoke Greek. I no longer even mention that I do MA much less my style, unless someone asks me and it seems worthwhile to answer them truthfully. I heard CLF is popular in Taiwan, but when I was there I never saw any (I was a northern stylist at the time, so I didn't really look, either).

As to the original subject, I agree that CLF is such a versatile art that outside skills may be adopted into it pretty easily, if you so choose. It also excels at adapting to various types of fighting venues, except for karate point tag. Lots of MAists think CLF is just long-range circular punches, but it's the art I've felt the most comfortable in due to its depth and inclusiveness.

[Indrafist]

It's an excellent system.