Crescent Kicks - Too much risk for too little reward?

[MasterKiller]

Seems like the HIGH risk of either connecting with the foot and hyperextending your ankle or actually just connecting with your ankle would discouraged their use.

And if you are going to strike with the shin, just use a roundhouse.

[Golden Arms]

Don't use them myself, other than as exercises to open up/warm up the hip area.

[JamesC]

I've always wondered about this as well. I've used it when sparring padded up pretty well, but I think i'd be too scared to use it without.

The only way an inside crescent makes sense to me is if you're flexible enough to use more of the sole of the foot. But, that seems like a really high level kick that would have little chance of landing(low percentage technique).

As an aside, is it true that the Bak Sil Lum system doesn't actually have a round kick? I've never seen one in their forms, and i'm curious as to why they would prefer to use the inside crescent instead.

[YouKnowWho]

The outside crescent kick is vey useful to be used to escape from many leg attacks such as "front cut".

http://www.judoinfo.com/images/animations/blue/osotogari.htm

[goju]

train them regularly never connected with my foot or ****ed up my ankle etc.etc

if i mess it up i tend to land with my lower calve which would still hurt the person its hitting given thats alot of leg im swinging

[Jimbo]

I used to use the outside crescent on occasion in sparring and competition, and it was effective for me. I never hurt my foot or my knee. It comes from an opponent's blind spot, and if you know when to do it, it stands a good chance of landing, IME.

I never used the inside crescent kick, at least not high. I've used it as a low foot sweep.

[Lucas]

I've always wondered about this as well. I've used it when sparring padded up pretty well, but I think i'd be too scared to use it without.

The only way an inside crescent makes sense to me is if you're flexible enough to use more of the sole of the foot. But, that seems like a really high level kick that would have little chance of landing(low percentage technique).

As an aside, is it true that the Bak Sil Lum system doesn't actually have a round kick? I've never seen one in their forms, and i'm curious as to why they would prefer to use the inside crescent instead.

the way I learned the sets were without any roundhouses, but aside from the sets we did train this kick, along with all others, and all punches. however i dont know if this comes from my sifu's experience with thai matches or not. we learned our roundhouses under the moniker 'sabre kick'. i have met very few people who use this nickname. interestingly ive been told that thais view each body part in a martial sense with a corresponding man made weapon. however this is just what i've been told, and I dont know if its true or not. my sifu leanred his shaolin in cambodia at the temple he was raised in, so this may be the connection.

[Xiao3 Meng4]

I've always viewed crescent kicks as integral to developing tripping/cutting power.

@YKW: interesting that you train them as a way to AVOID getting tripped.

[GeneChing]

It's sort of like clapping the ears, only we used the instep instead of the other hand.

I once got one to work really well in sparring. My partner blocked the crescent kick easily, but my slap got through. I was so pleased. It was lol-funny as it came off as a total ***** slap. My partner was stunned that it worked. I kind of was too.

That being said, high kicks are risky, no doubt.

[Lee Chiang Po]

Seems like the HIGH risk of either connecting with the foot and hyperextending your ankle or actually just connecting with your ankle would discouraged their use.

And if you are going to strike with the shin, just use a roundhouse.

On 2 different occasions I was watching MMA on TV when someone broke their own legs kicking with the shin. An Asian girl was landing some pretty hard kicks and after one really hard one she put her foot down and the leg just folded over. I think the ref fainted on that one. The other was guys and one broke his leg during the kick. He kicked the guy with the shin and it just snapped over.
It seems to me that any kick that can also injure you might not be a good choice, and any kick that can leave you in a bad position might also not be a good choice.

[-N-]

http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1123901#post1123901

Crescent kick.

[Lebaufist]

Crescent kicks hit "the sides of the barrel". So the set up is usually on a flank to get to either a flat chest or flat back. In the forms you always see some set up with the hands to either brace, lock, or deflect into the kick.

When done directly in front it tends to be a nice way to knock somebodies guard down for a second. Its kinda like a third hand. Crescent is a very up close kick. So I would use it at the end of a quick barrage of punches.

[JamesC]

That reminds me of a fight scene from a Jet Li movie. Can't remember which one, but he's fighting someone inside a bathroom stall and does an inside crescent to the side of his head. It was impressive.

[Lucas]

Unleashed?

I like to think of inside crescent kicks like a hook punch with my feet.

[YouKnowWho]

If you can still do your inside/outside crescent kick when you are 80 years old, you will still have a 40 years old body.

[-N-]

Seems like the HIGH risk of either connecting with the foot and hyperextending your ankle or actually just connecting with your ankle would discouraged their use.

And if you are going to strike with the shin, just use a roundhouse.

Depends on what you are using it for. For a power kick to the head or body, the roundhouse might be better, as you say.

For the knife disarm mentioned previously, the crescent kick was less risky. Contact was with the edge of hard soled shoe, so less risk of getting cut. Circular clearing didn't require a lot of power or accuracy. Kick was good choice for speed, based on the square facing starting position. Trajectory of the kick made sure that the weapon ended up inaccessable. The range allowed room for followup from a distance and closing in or escape as necessary.

[RenDaHai]

I Often use it around knee level, folding around the back, and various other sweeps. Also with bent knee as a guard.

There are many methods of using it. Kind of like an axe kick for example.

I met one guy who used it exceptionally well during sanda. He hit with the ball of his foot. How? First you have the ankle in such a way that the sole is pointing towards the target, then you kick in an upwards fashion to hit with the ball of the foot. Used against the Torso, especially when the opponent is standing side on, to hit around to the kidneys or liver at the back, bladder at the front etc.

I found it very hard to do, but powerful on the few times I could angle it right. I think this is just practice.

The general advantage of a cresent kick is that if you are flexible it requires no movement of the upper body. As such you do not telegraph the kick and it can fit seemlessly into your combinations while you are still in fist range. A turning kick requires more space.

[DangerousPerson]

I scored a good head hit in a tournament once with an outside crescent. They can be surprising and hard to predict when you're fairly close range. I like low inside crescents to the thigh to check leg kicks. I've never had any problem as far as foot or knee injuries using them in the past.

[mooyingmantis]

I think cresent kicks are very underrated. In monkey style we use them many different ways at different heights and different angles. I have used them successfully many times in sparring. Most peeps aren't expecting them. Especially at the angles we deliver them from.
I remember reading something many years ago by Funaakoshi. He said cresent kicks in karate were invented by peeps who wanted an easier form of roundhouse kick. I thought that was interesting.

[ShaolinDan]

I remember reading something many years ago by Funaakoshi. He said cresent kicks in karate were invented by peeps who wanted an easier form of roundhouse kick. I thought that was interesting.

I think so too.

I don't have very good hip flexibility, so for me, crescent kicks are the only way I can use my feet to attack the head from the side. Have used them a few times in sparring with mostly good results. My Shifu has also nailed me in the head with them a couple of times. :) I like them, but I do find I have to be careful with them doing heavy-bag work, there is a certain floppiness to the leg joints in that direction (The knee and ankle don't tend to be too strong on the sideways axis). Personally I'm hoping gradual conditioning will remove the floppiness... but certainly the knee will always be weaker sideways than front-to-back, still if it's strong enough, then it's strong enough.

[PalmStriker]

On 2 different occasions I was watching MMA on TV when someone broke their own legs kicking with the shin. An Asian girl was landing some pretty hard kicks and after one really hard one she put her foot down and the leg just folded over. I think the ref fainted on that one. The other was guys and one broke his leg during the kick. He kicked the guy with the shin and it just snapped over.
It seems to me that any kick that can also injure you might not be a good choice, and any kick that can leave you in a bad position might also not be a good choice.
Gotta watch what you're doing to yourself in all kind of ways. I avoid using straight fist punches to avoid hand breakage. Have seen what the mend looks like. :)

[Yum Cha]

jumping low front kick to bring the guard down followed by an inside cresent to the side of the head. Great combination, I picked it up after watching a guy knock two guys out with it in a tournament. Works better than half-rounds to the head, with that set up.

But that's on the jump, and I really consider it a set-up, or trap.

Standing, any kick above the solar plexus is too risky for me these days, there's always something better do do with the hands.

I did the Tae Kwon Do high kicking thing for years. Kept the legs well after I learned how to fight more effectively with my hands from other styes. I generally keep kicks below the waist now, I'm all into high percentage moves.

Head kick is almost a 'coup d'gras".

[PalmStriker]

It's sort of like clapping the ears, only we used the instep instead of the other hand.

I once got one to work really well in sparring. My partner blocked the crescent kick easily, but my slap got through. I was so pleased. It was lol-funny as it came off as a total ***** slap. My partner was stunned that it worked. I kind of was too.

That being said, high kicks are risky, no doubt. So is that why the Yang style taichi stylists practice the slap at impact point of kick?

[Yum Cha]

We did have a kick in TKD that we called half round....

Roundhouse was the Mui Thai style arching shin/instep kick..

Half round was tighter, and put the ball of the foot to the temple of the opponent using basically the same mechanic as a roundhouse, bent leg to straight leg, but the foot turned, and it almost looked like a side kick upon finish, but it came from the side in a swing, not straight out.

Crescent was straight leg, mostly, arching with the outside edge or inside edge of the foot.

Spinning crescent was another fun but ultimately too risky technique, IMHO.

[Jimbo]

I think so too.

I don't have very good hip flexibility, so for me, crescent kicks are the only way I can use my feet to attack the head from the side. Have used them a few times in sparring with mostly good results. My Shifu has also nailed me in the head with them a couple of times. :) I like them, but I do find I have to be careful with them doing heavy-bag work, there is a certain floppiness to the leg joints in that direction (The knee and ankle don't tend to be too strong on the sideways axis). Personally I'm hoping gradual conditioning will remove the floppiness... but certainly the knee will always be weaker sideways than front-to-back, still if it's strong enough, then it's strong enough.

I never had any trouble outside crescent kicking the heavy bag. However...when doing so, I often used to point my knee slightly outward before extending my lower leg into the kick. This was opposed to just keeping my knee straight throughout the motion, as traditionally seen in CMA, esp. northern style basics/forms. Appearance-wise, the difference between this and the common bent-to-straight-leg crescent kick is fairly subtle. This changed the impact point of the foot to the instep instead of the outside edge of foot. And this took off a great deal of the potential lateral pressures on the knee. Again, I never hurt my foot or knee doing outside crescent kicks, which I often landed to the head.

IMO, for crescent kicks, it's far better (and safer) to kick hand-held pads than the heavy bag. Since it's a sweep-through type of kick, you can kick through the target, with far less stress on the knee joint.

[ShaolinDan]

I never had any trouble outside crescent kicking the heavy bag. However...when doing so, I often used to point my knee slightly outward before extending my lower leg into the kick. This was opposed to just keeping my knee straight throughout the motion, as traditionally seen in CMA, esp. northern style basics/forms. Appearance-wise, the difference between this and the common bent-to-straight-leg crescent kick is fairly subtle. This changed the impact point of the foot to the instep instead of the outside edge of foot. And this took off a great deal of the potential lateral pressures on the knee. Again, I never hurt my foot or knee doing outside crescent kicks, which I often landed to the head.


This seems like a good and workable solution for most people. Seems to me a similar adjustment could be made on the inward crescent as well.
Unfortunately for me, as soon as I start to turn my leg over, my hips close up. I can make this adjustment up to chest height or so, but I need to keep my knee pointing up to get any higher than that.

[jdhowland]

[QUOTE=GeneChing;1129506]It's sort of like clapping the ears, only we used the instep instead of the other hand.QUOTE]

We learned this in Bak Hok, also. It's called pak geuk in white crane but used a little differently: in solo training the leg is extended and meets the palm but for correct focus the kicks are lower with the knee bent. Used up close, if you get momentary control of your opponents lead hand you can attack the shoulder joint or elbow with the foot. Can be trained on the heavy bag without hurting the knee if you flex enough. Also good for shots to the kidneys or back of the legs.

Against the shoulder, I try to invert my foot to get the bones to line up better. I don't like the idea of cracking the inside of my shin against someone's elbow.

In our Hap Ga we use the outer crescent kick a lot. It's called bai lin or swinging chain kick. Adaptable for short range as well. It's easier to toughen up the yeung/outside of the ankle for contact.

[iunojupiter]

When I was a teenager, and even into my early twenties, I used the outside crescent kick alot for sparring and tournaments. I agree with Mooying that it is a highly underrated kick, because no one ever saw it coming. I could usually nail someone in the head 2 or 3 times before they caught on that they were wide open on the side.
For me, I never really did the crescent kick as a big circle. I would always bring it up in a slight arc following the persons arm and then over the shoulder. The movement was always smaller than how you would practice the kick in the air, doing line drills or something.
I love the crescent kick. It's my secret weapon. I've never knocked anyone out with it, but I've dazed them pretty good, with no damage to my ankle or foot.

cheers,
Josh