"Aggressive" Arm Trapping.... or Clinching?

[imperialtaichi]

Some Kulo methods of controlling.... of course this is not the only way, and that each Wing Chun line has its own effective interpretations. And of course every technique has its counter techniques.

I didn't realize how much it looked like "clinching", until I looked at it myself. :confused:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bavwAileZ8Y

Cheers,
John

[k gledhill]

We do something completely different so its hard to give any response relative to the clip...

[mjw]

I'm not too advance with my WC but if the oponent gets stiff like that wouldn't that be a good time to lap da or pak da rather than focus on trapping/ clinching so much unless you have your opponent out flanked?

[Lee Chiang Po]

Looked pretty good to me. These techniques are some of my more common. I like to grab and shove an attacker into objects, jerk him back maybe, turn him away so that I am not in his line of fire, maybe kick him behind the knee and slam him backwards into the ground on the back of his head. Once you get him off balance you can keep him there until you drop him to the ground. Fighting is about violence, and the guy with the most of it usually wins the fight.

[anerlich]

John, some of your stuff I would call trapping, but some of it I would definitely class as clinching.

Where you have the "cross underhook" with your right hand, I would be looking at grabbing his hair, chin, etc. and pulling his head back, taking him to the ground or onto my knee, opening him up for face, throat or solar plexus shots, etc. A standard tactic of one of my KF instructors, David Crook, only coincidentally to do with the BJJ/wrestling I've done.

OTOH, using a slightly different underhook (under bicep rather than tricep) instead, with a collar grab / osotogari, sets up the classic BJJ forearm choke beautifully.

Great stuff.

BTW, I like the whole "industrial/hippie" look of your training gear and location ;)

[anerlich]

I'm not too advance with my WC but if the oponent gets stiff like that wouldn't that be a good time to lap da or pak da rather than focus on trapping/ clinching so much unless you have your opponent out flanked?

If he's a better pugilist but sucks at clinch work compared to you, no.

[GlennR]

Some Kulo methods of controlling.... of course this is not the only way, and that each Wing Chun line has its own effective interpretations. And of course every technique has its counter techniques.

I didn't realize how much it looked like "clinching", until I looked at it myself. :confused:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bavwAileZ8Y

Cheers,
John

Good stuff John, when are we catching up to have a play around?

Unfortuanetly i dont think i can make Saturday now.

[GlennR]

BTW, I like the whole "industrial/hippie" look of your training gear and location



I was thinking more "steam-punk" myself

[Graham H]

We do something completely different so its hard to give any response relative to the clip...

Extremely very completely different!!! :D ;)

GH

[wingchunIan]

couldn't be much more different in appearance from what I was taught. I agree entirely that the opponent trapped in the manner suggested at the start is not going to stand there and will attempt to respond, but the trap (or whatever you choose to call it) is only instantaneous and the completely unobstructed strike delivered simultaneously should give the opponent plenty to think about. The trap is only there to facilitate the strike and is a means to an end, not an end in itself. In my experience, in practice the opponent is very unlikely to politely cross his arms for you in front of his body and such a trap is only normally applied in practice when the arms cross by accident as a result of an over commited strike (like a wild swing), grabbing and punching or slow retraction of a striking arm etc and hence is almost never done from square on.

[Graham H]

..............you can make many things work when two people are co-operating with each other! ;)

GH

[GlennR]

..............you can make many things work when two people are co-operating with each other! ;)

GH

Like PBWSLVT chi-sao clips!!!! BWAHAHAHA!!

Sorry, couldnt help myself

[Graham H]

Like PBWSLVT chi-sao clips!!!! BWAHAHAHA!!

Sorry, couldnt help myself

I know Glen! They are nowhere near as good as your chi sau clips! :rolleyes:

You doughnut! :p

GH

[GlennR]

I know Glen! They are nowhere near as good as your chi sau clips! :rolleyes:

You doughnut! :p

GH

I do love a doughnut ;)

[Vajramusti]

I do love a doughnut ;)
-------------------------------------Either way- donut, doughnut--
in the US more commonly donut. I have sworn off---and the local Krispy Kreme shut down!

joy

[Phil Redmond]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-TT-6JeSZE

[trubblman]

Some Kulo methods of controlling.... of course this is not the only way, and that each Wing Chun line has its own effective interpretations. And of course every technique has its counter techniques.

I didn't realize how much it looked like "clinching", until I looked at it myself. :confused:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bavwAileZ8Y

Cheers,
John

It looked more like Tai Chi combat than Wing Chun. I say this because of the initial stance. As for the trapping or clinching, if the wrists are grabbed, you can tan sau or huen sau out of the grab easily provided you relax. Then the opponent would not be able to push you around as shown.

[Hebrew Hammer]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GB_-pfOTA

Nice clip Sifu!

[LoneTiger108]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5GB_-pfOTA

Now that's more like 'aggressive' trapping AND follow-up! Nice ;)

And no Tai Chi required

[k gledhill]

Anyone still think one punch wont transfer force enough to stop n drop ?

[wingchunIan]

:o
Anyone still think one punch wont transfer force enough to stop n drop ?

Don't disagree that one punch can be enough but if you watch the full clip (its on youtube) you'll see that the KO'd guy was virtually out on his feet from the previous exchange when he took a barrage of chain punches (Watch his legs after they stand up)

Still nice to see something that looks like Wing Chun for a change :)

[k gledhill]

:o

Don't disagree that one punch can be enough but if you watch the full clip (its on youtube) you'll see that the KO'd guy was virtually out on his feet from the previous exchange when he took a barrage of chain punches (Watch his legs after they stand up)

Still nice to see something that looks like Wing Chun for a change :)

True...props to him for fighting on...

[couch]

I liked the video, John.

I like how you're always disrupting the balance.

In regards to your first demonstration of the ol' trap and slap and how you can't keep doing that, I believe two things:
1. If your low trap/pak hit hard enough to disrupt the balance along with the punch disrupting balance, it has a higher success rate
2. I feel this is only a drill to emphasize the points raised in #1

All the best,
CTK

[Wayfaring]

Anyone still think one punch wont transfer force enough to stop n drop ?

It didn't seem to in the 90 plus punches I counted in the guy's subsequent match on the same day...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrjID6IdxWk

Of course the unskilled clinching didn't seem to help much.

[Wayfaring]

And wayfaring is going to show us how its done right ? :D one punch ko's

Yeah - I don't know where you're going with all this anyway - is it a big shock that someone can get KTFO'd in a fight? Don't think so. Does it happen a lot? Very infrequent compared to the number of punches thrown in a given fight.

Are there better examples of clinching than trying to hold someone's wrists with their arms crossed and angle them off for a strike? Yes, that is very low percentage.

But again I'm not sure of your point.

[k gledhill]

Yeah - I don't know where you're going with all this anyway - is it a big shock that someone can get KTFO'd in a fight? Don't think so. Does it happen a lot? Very infrequent compared to the number of punches thrown in a given fight.

Are there better examples of clinching than trying to hold someone's wrists with their arms crossed and angle them off for a strike? Yes, that is very low percentage.

But again I'm not sure of your point.

Have you ever personally ko'd anyone with one punch , real fight, Gym fight ?

[Phil Redmond]

It didn't seem to in the 90 plus punches I counted in the guy's subsequent match on the same day...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrjID6IdxWk

Of course the unskilled clinching didn't seem to help much.
Hi Wayfaring. The name of the event is Standup Manup. The idea for these events came from some people who wanted to focus on standup. Remember in the old UFC fights where fighters would be on the mat for 45 mins or more? The UFC changed that because people got bored. Plus, watching a good standup fight with someone getting KTFO is more exciting. So yes, the guys are not as proficient as a good grappler. Now, I personally feel that grappling is a skill that every martial artist should have. But that's how myself and others feel. Some people are just tired of seeing grappling. Maybe that's why boxing purses are larger than MMA purses.

[Wayfaring]

Have you ever personally ko'd anyone with one punch , real fight, Gym fight ?

Ummm. Yes.

[Wayfaring]

Hi Wayfaring. The name of the event is Standup Manup. The idea for these events came from some people who wanted to focus on standup. Remember in the old UFC fights where fighters would be on the mat for 45 mins or more? The UFC changed that because people got bored. Plus, watching a good standup fight with someone getting KTFO is more exciting. So yes, the guys are not as proficient as a good grappler. Now, I personally feel that grappling is a skill that every martial artist should have. But that's how myself and others feel. Some people are just tired of seeing grappling. Maybe that's why boxing purses are larger than MMA purses.

Hi Phil,

Yes I've seen the videos of this you have posted around. I am not knocking the concept or the people involved - actually it's great that you can do that kind of thing in NY with MMA not being sanctioned. It's kind of a cool smoker level mixup overall. But a lot of people, especially some of the WCK folks around here mistake what that video shows as "trapping" to involve some kind of advanced clinch/grappling skill - that is very far from reality. It's much worse to do things like that video than even a good boxer's clinch like how Buster Douglas beat Mike Tyson.

The idea of focusing on standup isn't new - there of course are boxing and MT events too. K-1 is one of the ultimate in these. Ernesto Hoost - Buakaw - awsome!!!

There's even the in-between arts like Sanshou that Cung Le dominated by decent striking and really aggressive hip throws.

Wrestling actually is an amazing art too - but the best college athletes compete in gyms with very few in the stands. Watch Chael Sanderson sometime for excitement. I like to check out the NCAA championships - some great athletes there. Unfortunately outside of MMA they can only go on to a career with the WWE to pursue it. Or the Olympics.

The UFC - yeah the old to new progression kind of went from zero restrictions in a fight to the current rules which are good and bad. There were the matches like Royce hanging on to Severn for 15 minutes then getting a triangle. But then there were the exciting ones too like the Sumo guy getting his teeth kicked into the 3rd row in the first 15 seconds. Too violent and thus unpopular on one hand, too little action and not exciting enough on the other. Hence rules, refs, modifications for entertainment.

On boxing - I think there's more money there because it's the old versus the new and MMA hasn't quite caught up yet, but is getting there. The UFC has a $90M annual Fox deal now so it's coming up - but still you have only Dana White and the Fertita's pocketing anywhere near PBF coin. Not the fighters. As more money flows it will attract better athletes. Jon Bones Jones is one example of this. And I'm a fan of the sweet science too. On the night of the PBF vs. Ortiz fight, one of the guys in my gym had a pro MMA title defense at the No Mercy show. I watched one live, and taped HBO. All so I could see poor reffing and an obnoxious interview taint some pretty talented guys going at it. Floyd looked real sharp!

I guess whatever fans like and pay for will survive. Out west here the small MMA shows are getting 200-300 fans at $25 a pop. That's enough to pay travel expenses for fighters instead of charging them a $75 tournament entry fee. But we get that many at BJJ and other grappling tournaments as well. Not so many at HS and college wrestling. And not so many at smaller boxing events. It is what it is.

But at your manup standup events, if the rules are going to allow clinch engagements to the takedown, that's kind of like the Sanshou rules. It might benefit the guys to watch a few Cung Le fights on YouTube and cross-train some basic Greco-Roman upper body wrestling skills a little instead of groping each other and falling down when in clinch range.

[k gledhill]

Ummm. Yes.

soooo, how many times ?

[Wayfaring]

soooo, how many times ?

soooo, are you writing a biography for me? nobody needs to hear stupid stories dating back to jr. high, and what happens in training stays in training.

why don't you share stories of your amazing "stop n drop" one punch ko's if you need entertainment around here.

[m1k3]

My only stop-n-drop KO happened when I was a kid. A group of use came up with the clever idea of playing baseball with a basketball. I was the first batter. The pitcher threw the ball, I took a big swing and made really good contact with the ball. The bat recoiled from the ball and smacked me in the forehead, KFO. :eek: When I came to the street was empty. They all thought I was dead. :D

Other than that, nope, no others.