View Full Version : Eagle Claw schools

Jade Mountain Eagle
05-01-2001, 10:07 PM
anyone can reply to this but I have a big concern and a bit of disapointment...

I'm an eagle claw practioner. I have this thing that boils inside me everytime I read an article on Lily Lau. The articles always make it sound like Lily Lau inherited the complete Eagle Claw system when this is not true. My sigung Grandmaster Shum Leung is the only Eagle Claw teacher allowed by the Jin Mo Association in Hong Kong to teach Eagle Claw kung fu; the complete system which includes the 108 Locks. Lily Lau's schools only know 72. I mean how can she be a grandmaster when her father, Lau Fat Mang, died when she was 14? My sigung was already 36 and new the complete set by then. His sigung was Lau Fat Mang...in other words, I just don't like the fact that the Lau clan does not acknowldge the fact my sigung has been teaching Eagle Claw way before the learned the Power Fist Form. I know I sound like I'm boasting that my school is better than theirs, which I'm not, but I just need to get this bit of frustration off my chest. I have only seen one article on sigung in an old Inside Kung Fu magazine....how about Kung Fu Qigong give my sigung some credit and look into his history. anyone give me a holler, and please don't take my post as disrespect to Lau's school's. As long as we both came from the root, we are family.
Peace :mad:

05-02-2001, 06:43 AM
you would happen to know of any norther eagle claw schools in texas?

"Civilize the mind but make savage the body"

Julian Dale
05-02-2001, 02:02 PM
One of Master Gini Lau's students has a school in Texas, dont know the details of it but you could try going to Master Gini Lau and asking

Wong Ying Home
05-03-2001, 01:15 AM
Firstly, I think you need to sit back and chill.

If you dont think there is enough information about Master Leung Shum, don't whine about it here. Get articles on your teacher printed. Problem solved !

Second after only ONE YEAR of eagle claw training your are presuming to know more about eagle claw than the Lau family or your own teacher. You need to take a reality check here !

Thirdly the Lau family are entitled by blood line and birth right to call themselves Grandmasters

Fouthly have you asked GRANDMASTER Lili Lau what she knows and what she does not know, I doubt it, have you spoken to your Master Leung Shum and compared his direct statements? I doubt it

The late Great Grandmaster Lau Fat Mang set up the Hong Kong Jing Mo school, Grandmaster Lili Lau taught there for years, again facts...get them

Respect your elders...or at least learn what that means as you currently are not..you do not carry enough experince or position to question other peoples skill.

Your just a troll, come back in ten years or so when you know what your talking about and can make informed statements....hey I don't even learn under Grandmaster Lili Lau and I know this muc

05-03-2001, 03:13 AM
Are you studying at Shan Tung Kung Fu Association?


05-12-2001, 12:46 AM
Lily Lau is a very boring person, whenever she gets a chance to advertise herself, she always speak of her father like no one else in the eagle claws system, her father Lau Fat-Meng was just one of student of Grandmaster Chan Gee-Ching, Chan himself was called the King of Eagle Claws, not LiLy Lau's father, her father was just a student of Chan , no more , no less, but LiLy Lau likes public to think she inherited the whole system and no one else has...which is a falsed statement and unfair to many other eagle claws masters... It's about time for other eagle claws masters to speak up and show the world what's the real eagle claws system all about... LiLy Lau is just a member of the system...no more...no less...

Julian Dale
05-13-2001, 11:14 AM
Lau Fat Mang was not a student of Chan Chi Ching he was his younger classmate, they both learned from LFM's uncle.

Is anyone who promotes their art or system now boring? A bit of an unfair statment.

I do however agree that there are more than one person teaching eagle claw.

Again if people want to promote their art, fine good luck to them. If other dont wish to do it through the mainstream media that fine as well.

05-14-2001, 07:35 PM
Just maybe its the right time for all eagle claws practioners to learn more about Chan Gee-Ching instead of Lily Lau and her father LFM, she has been talking about herself and her father all her life...its time to move on...she is just too boring!!! please let the world to know the real grangmaster and the king of eagle claws is Chan Gee-Ching, he should have deserved more respect and recognition instead the father and daughter, LFM and Lily Lau... ;) hopefully, one day soon eagle claws can be more popular like choy lat fut, tai chi, wing chun...etc, instead of just a small number people campare to the rest of kung fu community!!!!!!!!!!!! just my 2 cents

Julian Dale
05-15-2001, 04:50 PM
Argueably the only real Grandmasters of Eagle claw are those living.

Again Handsmoe you failed to note that LFM was not CCC student by classmate.

Does not each student work to promote thier teacher, in Honk Kong and China I have spoken to a number of people who promote CCH as the top man and others who promote LFM, horses for courses.

At the end of the day if your not alive you can not be something other than dead. Titles or not

Queen victoria of England is dead ..is she still the queen of England..no !!

Julian Dale
05-15-2001, 04:50 PM
Argueably the only real Grandmasters of Eagle claw are those living.

Again Handsmoe you failed to note that LFM was not CCC student but classmate.

Does not each student work to promote thier teacher, in Honk Kong and China I have spoken to a number of people who promote CCH as the top man and others who promote LFM, horses for courses.

At the end of the day if your not alive you can not be something other than dead. Titles or not

Queen victoria of England is dead ..is she still the queen of England..no !!

05-15-2001, 09:37 PM
Let's move on...there're many eagle claw masters like Shum Leung and few others, all look up to the KING of eagle claws **** CHAN GEE-CHING **** ,
let's forget all this non-sense politics about who is the grandmaster of eagle claws... in fact... there should be none except the mighty * CHAN himself * For a true MA, one should pay more attention to one's skill and the art rather than spend all this valueable time to politic and self promotion... just a thought, no disrespect to anyone!!! Ciao Ciao

Julian Dale
05-16-2001, 11:36 AM
Being an eagle claw practioner yourself you would be well versed in the reputations of each master living and dead, both in Hong Kong, China and the West

Chan was one Grandmaster, as was Lau Fat Mang. Argueably the eagle claw Grandmaster was Lau Si Chun above all others.

Nobody can disupute the skill of either of these men, they were 100% better than you or I will be in two lifetimes.

Is even Leung Shum the legitimate Grandmaster??

At the end of the day who cares, if the stuff is good and works, titles don't mean much if your not the last man standing do they !

This is simply talking in circles

05-16-2001, 05:12 PM
Chan Gee-Ching was called the * KING * of eagle claw from the MA world and he's well deserved by all means. Most of the EC practioners all look up to him and show deep respect...to the king.

If you werent happy about Shum Leung 's being called the grandmaster of eagle claw??? So do many people arent happy about Lily Lau's self promote herself like no one else in the EC system, that's the problem , Lily Lau likes public to think she 's the only grandmaster, but in reality...there's no such title or things called grandmaster in kung fu, this is only happened in the west, in kung fu we addresses everybody the term " SIFU " or " SIGUNG " OR "SIJO". Sifu to students, Sigung to grandstudents and Sijo to the whole clan as the frist leader who created the system. Now, Is this * fair * for you to down grade Shum Leung and to k*ss someone else a**???

So why couldnt we forget about such crap like grandmaster??? Once again under the name of Chan Gee-Ching to promote the eagle claw. Eagle Claw is about Eagle Claw, not the name of anyone who likes grandmaster * herself * and made all other grandmaster look like a second banana. If Lily Lau thinks she is the grandmaster??? So does Shum Leung and many others think they could be the grandmasters too. So what's the big deal about being called the grandmaster???...Is this something more important than the art of EC???

Julian Dale
05-17-2001, 11:14 AM
I think you need to learn to read statements correctly.

You are rapidly sounding like the person you most criticise, someone who shouts a lot about one person.

Secondly the point of Leung Shum you have twisted to a point of insult. it was a comparison !

I have no further intention of continuing trolling conversation with you, as you have nothing new to say or constructive conversation bar your single point of view.


05-22-2001, 07:08 PM
i agree with maxican eagle and handsome's view. there are too many self claimed grandmasters in the world, master shum leung is well respected by the MA world long before lily lau in u.s.a

the king of eagle claw was master chan zhi ching,
even chan himself never claimed as grandmaster of eagle claw, then who's this lily lau called herself grandmaster of eagle claw and let her students here to talk down and insult master shum leung and others, which was getting a little too much for self promoting. imo

jfk was a us president and his son was not, lau fat meng was lau fat meng, lily lau is lily lau, shum leung is shum leung, they are just sifus to their own students to their own right. lily lau definetly is no better than shum leung or any other sifus in the eagle claw system. in fact,
maxican eagle already pointed out shum leung started to teach eagle claw system when he was 36 , comparing to lily lau was a beginner at the age 14 in the eagle claw system , so i think master shum leung should deserve some respect even from lily lau's students.


Julian Dale
05-23-2001, 11:06 AM
Nobody should be bad mouthing Leung Shum or any other sifu.

Simply put it has been the tradition, in my teachers family if you have nothing good to say about a person say nothing.

Chan Chi Ching was one of many great eagle claw practioners, he is noted and recognised as being one of the leading lights, as is Lau Fat Mang even in Hong Kong you mention either of these names and they are both regarded as something special.

If one teacher is working hard to promote themselves then so bit it, however their students should never disrespect another teacher publicly. This in itself denotes poor standard.

While the comments here about LFM and CCC, leung shum, lilly lau etc are relevant, the manner in which they have been communicated or written were not in an entirely respectfull manner to all parties.

All the above are highly competant eagle claw sifu's some better than others but non the less all excell in their chosen arts.

I am not a student of Lilly Lau so it makes not difference to me either way, however to simply whine and bad outh one becuase you don't like seeing theri name in magazines etc is not really a good excuse to convey the point in a disrecpectfull manner.

06-08-2001, 08:00 AM
In Lily laus younger age she studied Chinese wrestling she only got to learn a little bit of her fathers gong fu. Becasue she was the oldest she was anounced the inheritor of the system but gini lau her younger sister was trained longer and seems to now more than her.

06-08-2001, 04:36 PM
Grandmaster is an American type term?...O.K. But every System still has a heirarchy, theoretically. If Sifu Lily Lau was the daughter of the acknowledged leader of The System, theoretically there's athing of passing on leadership along the bloodline. Not even that though, whoever the leader chooses becomes the new leader. As they were leader and respected(hopefully), then they would have reasons only a System leader might know to pick anyone in particular. If you respect the Leader of the System, then you respect the choice of that leader for the successor.

When the successor has not learned all the forms the successor can learnthem from any students which have learned the forms or manuals made or Kept by the former Leader. The Emperor of China was less than ten when recognized as Successor. King Tutankhahmon was also young and perhaps a Dahli Lama but there is something special about their upbringing which you nor I might comprhend that grants them the place of Automatic Deserved Respect. This can protect the System, and it's heritage--ADR :-)

Very some such,perhaps might have been, likely say some, some not.

Wong Ying Home
06-09-2001, 02:11 AM
I think that it is fair to say that the true sucessor receives the transmission of the system from their SiFu, without that they have only the style or form.

I odn't thikn any of us are able to clearly say what the Lau's, Shums etc have or have not we are not them we did not experience thier training so we cannot accuratly state an point of deabte it is pure speculation. I gues the thing to do is there will be a quality in those that have received the transimsion and it wil not be ther in those that have not...so title or no title the transmision is either rher or ti isnt, if it isnt that the person only knows the system and not the essence.

An example of thsi would be Chan Hon VChing and Hung Gar fame in Hong KOng, his son Edward Chan woudl have been teh natural successor and inheritor of the system but he was not, Chan student Kong Pui Wei was made sucessor and given the transimision whilst being taught by his SiFu and before he died.

Just a thought that has come up in conversation with a few old school masters , once your aware of it you start to see it in some people and not in others, plus many of the older generation if you ask them can just look at other teachers and say yes or no immediatly if it is there or not.

06-09-2001, 07:23 AM
I studied at GM Lily Lau's school in Concord when it first opened about 6 or 7 years ago. They were still putting the ranking and syllabus together. I studied two years there. I never once heard anybody talk bad about Master Shum Leung. What you are frustrated by seems to be the cultural dysfunctional grudge holding. Some asian cultures hold hard feeling for centruies. I think both of them and even Gini, feel disrespected by each other.

Lau Fat Mang was a very great war hero as well as very famous martial artist. If he was your dad I think you would be proud also.

-------------------------I am fortunate to have a teacher to correct my foolish ways......Qiman