Kung Fu: more than kicks and punches

[Ray Pina]

There's been a lot said about styles amounting to mere kicking and punching, but that is not Kung Fu's value. Kung Fu's value is in how it kicks and punches and why.

There are so many ways but crucial to my fighting style is the ability to turn a strike into a sticky, shock absorbing shield. And a shock absorbing shield into a strike. A step into a short round house that attacks a thigh that is not around house. The weight is forward, like a step, but heavy.

Ba Gua's peach palm!

The principles of Hsing-I cannon fist, the mechanics of it. The strategy behind Hsing-I's swallow.... awesome. Very clever and effective.

The phoenix eye fist... at the right time, the right place... I've broken someone's rib with it.... I believe this could be applied with great effect on the bottom if allowed in BJJ. To loosen someone up. Not a strike. Just pressure on certain points: ribs, inner thigh, under armpit/rib, etc., etc.

These are just things I've picked up from the styles that I studied. Obviously there's so manny more than I'm not aware of.

[MightyB]

Truth is, kung fu is fighting, it has to incorporate fighting - without fighting, you cannot experience true kung fu.

People have a hard time internalizing the above concept. It becomes academic, theoretical, debated - in the end it becomes something not "kung fu".

When I got hurt last week, my wife, my mom, my dad, my boss - nobody could understand it, I said "I'm not going to dance class - martial arts is about fighting". Without fighting, what is it? Garbage I says. I'd rather do yoga and meditation if I wanted far east without fighting. But, I buy into TCMA whole heartedly - I believe that the goal is for the skilled man to be able to defeat a larger, stronger opponent. I live it every time I train... how many in TCMA can truly say that? A lot do, not many can - The only way to develop fighting skill is under pressure - because if you think you're doing kung fu by practicing "application" against a middle-aged woman who's half-heartedly throwing a predictable punch at you, could you really expect to be able to defend yourself against an angry, large person who intends to do you harm?

[wenshu]

because if you think you're doing kung fu by practicing "application" against a middle-aged woman who's half-heartedly throwing a predictable punch at you

In my family we call that "Thanksgiving".

[wenshu]

General Qi Jiguang’s Approach To Martial Arts Training (http://seinenkai.com/articles/henning/qijiguang.pdf)
By Stanley Henning
Journal of the Chen Style Taijiquan Research Association Of Hawaii, Vol. 3, No.
2, Summer 1995, 1-3 (minor editorial changes/clarifications, July 2006)

Ming General Qi Jiguang (1528-1587), presents his views on martial arts training
clearly and concisely in his New Book of Effective Discipline (1561) and Actual
Record of Training (1571). [1] In these works, one can see practical application of
the best in Chinese military tradition, They reveal that, probably even well before
Qi’s time, the martial arts practiced in the villages as part of militia training had
gradually evolved into a form of recreation as well, and had become characterized
by the “flowery” movements associated with self expression and individual styles.
Qi condemned these “flowery” martial arts as undisciplined and inappropriate for
military use in combat and emphasized that, “…in training troops, the pretty is not
practical and the practical is not pretty…” [2]

These arguments are not exactly new. CMA has struggled with a tendency towards ineffectiveness in combat for centuries.

[Ray Pina]

It's not the material. It's the way it's being trained... only teachers and students are to blame for that. You walk into a "martial arts" school where people are playing paddy cake and stay, pay tuition and waste your time.... only you are to blame.

A reasonable person would understand after a handful of classes, perhaps a couple weeks, if the training is legit.

[MightyB]

It's not the material. It's the way it's being trained... only teachers and students are to blame for that. You walk into a "martial arts" school where people are playing paddy cake and stay, pay tuition and waste your time.... only you are to blame.

A reasonable person would understand after a handful of classes, perhaps a couple weeks, if the training is legit.

TCMA: more than fighting.

Here's where I'll flip flop on ya. There are legitimate reasons for studying kung fu outside of the realm of fighting. Balance, Coordination, Recreation, LARPing, Health, Longevity, Cultural Enrichment, and just for the heck of it. These are all legitimate.

[SPJ]

we divert or diversify to conquer.

KFC is about fried chicken turned grilled chicken and biscuits and gravy

MacDonald is about big Mac/hamburger/beef turned into drinks and healthy salads or apple fries--

Carl Junior is about chicken star and giant hamburger/beef/steak turned turkey burger and salad--

--

my point is that each style of Kung Fu stressing a repertoise of skill sets to solve common fighting problems.

--

we focus and excel in what we do.

how to get there or maintain or stay there that is the journey.

--

:)

[Ray Pina]

TCMA: more than fighting.

Here's where I'll flip flop on ya. There are legitimate reasons for studying kung fu outside of the realm of fighting. Balance, Coordination, Recreation, LARPing, Health, Longevity, Cultural Enrichment, and just for the heck of it. These are all legitimate.

True that. I would say most of the posters here have gained those benefits from the study of TCMA. I'm definitely all for letting everyone do their thing and be happy..... it's just the visions of grandeur people develop doing drunken forms, etc. Just as one should have respect for a higher-rank, even if it falls outside of one's specialty, these types often lack the do respect for modern fighters often speak out of turn.


But this divulges from my original point. I have learned useful skills from the TCMA that I apply. It's annoying, because people on the sidelines always say I'm doing this or that wrong, and sometimes I am, but I'm still pretty. The Navy Seals shouldn't have crashed their helicopter on the wall.... overall, awesome execution.

My first video below is full of TCMA skills used in real fighting. I've grown and evolved since then. But the overall strategy of controlling both hands before attacking remains the same. The jamming while closing. The no boxing and dancing... close and finish... or be finished.

[Ray Pina]

my point is that each style of Kung Fu stressing a repertoise of skill sets to solve common fighting problems.

--

we focus and excel in what we do.

how to get there or maintain or stay there that is the journey.

--

:)

Excellent!

Do you mind my asking what style you specialize in?

[MightyB]

But this divulges from my original point. I have learned useful skills from the TCMA that I apply.

Absolutely there are useful skills much more than just punching or kicking. For example - in my base style, 7* mantis, we have something called the ou lou choi. I'm a firm believer that with enough of the right type of practice, that hook - control - punch could be used successfully in MMA to knock someone the frak out. It'd take practice, but it's something that most definitely would work.

[Dragonzbane76]

there is always something useful. just have to dig through it to find what works for you.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Kung fu is fighting, that people have made MORE if it has to do with people liking to do the movements and the training BUT not liking to fight.
All MA are about fighting, remove that aspect and you have cardo-kickboxing.

[TenTigers]

Kung-Fu is about longevity;
If you outlive your enemies, you have achieved longevity.:D

[sanjuro_ronin]

Kung-Fu is about longevity;
If you outlive your enemies, you have achieved longevity.:D

The best way to out live them is to beat them into a pulp, bury their asses, rape their horses and ride off on their women.

[bawang]

you are wrong.

if you ever read the water margin, kung fu is about tying your enemy to a wooden post, cutting pieces off his thigh, and roasting and eating it in front of him.

[bawang]

These arguments are not exactly new. CMA has struggled with a tendency towards ineffectiveness in combat for centuries.

venerable qi's exact quote is "this business of killing people, do you think its supposed to look cool?"

keep in mind back then the village performances were technically war dances. they were fear inspiring and not opera-like unlike the qing era. performers would send themselves into berserker trance going ape sh1t. it was cool and manly, unlike todays gay wushu.