View Full Version : Low-carb diets and caffeine

Mr. Nemo
04-03-2001, 06:49 AM
Some of you seem very knowledgable about nutrition, especially low-carb diets. My question is: how does caffeine interact with these diets?

I've bee on the zone off and on for a while, and in the book, it's mentioned that caffeine will throw off insulin balance and defeat the benefits of the diet. However, I've heard people say that this isn't really true, or that it's only true for some people.

If caffeine does throw off the balance, how much does it take? I drink some things with caffeine, but it's close to the last ingredient. I've been able to lose body fat doing this, but would I be losing it more quickly if I didn't?

Any thoughts on this would be welcome

04-03-2001, 08:05 AM
The first low carb diet I ever got was a fax from my boss. She had gotten it from a friend in the Army or the Marines (sorry, my memory's bad). The diet's the original Mayo clinic recommendations. It's a really specific diet listing exactly what to eat.

Black coffee or Tea is listed for lunch every day except the last... so I'm assuming the Mayo clinic, at least, didn't consider it bad.

I've also heard of people taking Xenadrine or MD-6 with low-carb diets; and both contain a variation on the good ole caffeine ephedrine aspirin stack.

I don't think it's too much of a problem, unless you're a caffeine addict who needs coffee like some of us need air.

If you REALLY want a kick-in-the-a$$, low carb diet; look at www.t-mag.com (http://www.t-mag.com) and search on "fat fast diet".

Believe me, if you can afford the flax seed oil and the daily intake of tuna, there won't be any doubt about caffeine.

I'm planning to try the fat-fast diet for 2 to 4 weeks sometime next year, when I've got a job, money, and hopefully less stress.

All in all, though, I'm not a huge fan of low carb diets; especially not for an extended period of time.

Just my 55 cents heh

04-04-2001, 02:45 AM
Dr. Robert Atkins, author of "Dr. Atkins' New Diet Revolution," (December, 1996) has been remarkably successful in promoting a diet that is appalling to proponents of low-fat diets as well as to most nutritionists. However, millions have lost weight on the Atkins Diet and its spin-offs, including the Montignac Diet, which has been extremely popular in Western Europe since the early 1990s. Even Barry Sears' "The Zone" can be considered an offshoot of the Atkins "diet revolution."

The theory underlying all these plans is that consumption of carbohydrates, especially refined sugars and starches, exaggerates insulin production in the body, which in turn promotes fat storage and has harmful effects on cardiovascular function. At its most extreme this phenomenon leads to insulin resistance (your cells resist the efforts of insulin to deliver glucose), which, in turn, can lead to adult-onset diabetes.

The fact is that after 48 hours on a very low carbohydrate diet, the body exhausts its reserves of glycogen (stored carbohydrates) and begins burning fat for fuel. Conventional physicians regard this change as unhealthy, but Atkins and his supporters don't see a problem. My view is that some version of this diet may be useful for people with insulin resistance (those with high serum triglycerides, low HDL -- a.k.a "good cholesterol" -- and a tendency to gain weight around the middle).

While Dr. Atkins may be right in theory, in practice his diet is not what I regard as healthy. In return for giving up bread, pasta and (most) sweets he gives dieters license to gorge on high-fat foods like lobster soup or bacon and eggs -- OK to splurge on for your birthday or other special occasions but certainly not sensible as a daily regime.

If you're tempted to try the Atkins diet, I advise passing up the high-fat menus he recommends and keeping your fat consumption to no more than 30 percent of your daily calories. Especially, keep your saturated fat intake low, meaning easy on the meat, butter, cream, and cheese. You also could include some healthy carbohydrates -- starchy vegetables, whole wheat pasta and chewy whole grain bread. If you exercise some nutritional common sense while on the Atkins Diet, you'll probably do very well. And no, losing weight quickly isn't a good idea. The faster you lose, the faster you're likely to regain.

"If you are talking about sport that is one thing. But when you are talking about combat-as it is-well then, baby, you'd better train every part of your body" - Bruce Lee

04-04-2001, 06:41 AM
This is my opinion... Carbohydrates are important but try to eat alot of complex carbohydrates not simple ones.. and stay away from red meat! this is no joke red meat is very bad for you and alot of people gain wieght because of it, not only that it lowers your chi.. eat alot of white meats i suggest you eat alot of fish.. thats what i eat i started small i would eat chicken and turkey now i cut them on the whole and i eat alot of fish.. there is nothing wrong with eating rice! infact its good for you and it raises your chi! now stay away from SUGAR! sugar is very bad for you and it also lowers your chi Sugar makes you gain wieght!.. instead replace the sugar with honey.. or some kinda fructose.. i eat alot of dates (black and red) when i get a sugar craving. dates are very good for you and raise your chi! get plenty of fruit and vegies.. esapcialy green leaf stuff.. and you will loose wieght! espacialy if you excersise.. oh and try to stay away from milk and milk products.. if you must eat them then drink only none fat milk and milk products...
one last thing alot of oat bran very good stuff and raises your chi..

what i relies is that the food you eat that lowers your chi normaly are bad for you and makes you gain wieght, where as the food that raises your chi is good for you and helps you loose wieght... funny isnt it..

04-04-2001, 08:39 AM
long live the carnivor!
going on nothing but protien for about 12 days(don't go any longer unless you re-introduce some carbs & fibre) will help you drop inexcess of about 7-8 kilos(or more if you add something like hydroxycut) & can be no worse for the body than a big night out on the drink.(just get ready to be hanging for some carbs)
just make sure to drink plenty of water, take a good multi-vitamin & mineral & make sure to use something like silium husks so you can stll go to the tiolet.
lean red meat is good for you, the only problem with most commercial beef these days is it is grain fed wich causes it to produce more of the bad fats.try free range or game animals as they possess more e.f.a.'s, also adding extra e.f.a.'s can help in the removal of fat as well.
there is more but if you want to know just ask.

04-04-2001, 03:17 PM
Personally, I enjoy the American Dietetic Association's recommendations. What a lot of people fail to realize is the actual serving SIZE. A half cup of cooked pasta or rice is one serving, not the bowl full that most people eat, only one slice of bread, only half a bagel. If people eat only the actual serving size, they'd lose weight on that as well, and then maintain the weight they want as long as the consume only the calories needed to be at that weight.


Surrender yourself to nature and be all that you are.

04-04-2001, 03:50 PM
Robin, you are right. But a half cup of rice or noodles seems awfully small... Does anyone have good tips for reducing appetite?

04-04-2001, 04:11 PM
Sorry, that has nothing to do with low carb/caffeine, so I'll start a new topic. I'd really like some suggestions.

04-15-2001, 02:39 AM
a great book to read is the book "Neaderthin". This explains eating a natural diet of meats (preferably naturally fed-ex: venison you hunted ypurself) and fruits and green vegetables. The book advises against caffeine, because you need to drink a lot of water and caffiene is a diaretic that will contradict the water intake-thus possibly making you prone to a kidney stone. So if you are eating a high protien, no carb diet-drink plenty of water and stay away from the caffiene.

04-17-2001, 01:10 AM
I don’t think the problem is with the caffeine. I think the problem is with the pesticides and insecticides on the coffee beans that get ground into the chunky powder we call coffee. Pour hot water thru this mess and you are sure to drink all of these chemicals down into your system. Many coffee bean farmers wear masks as they pick the beans because there are so many chemicals sprayed. These chemicals are designed to kill living cells (insects, rodents, etc.) but the chemicals do not distinguish which species it kills. They just try to kill every living cell. Don’t think this stuff isn’t strong enough to kill a human, it is and it does. As we drink coffee every day, we introduce chemicals into our bodies that our immune system kills off. While our immune system works hard to accomplish this, it cannot devote all of its resources towards fighting off even a common cold let alone cancer, diabetes, heart disease, etc. Add a little processed powder milk, some Sweat n’ Low and you’ve got yourself a cup of poison water.

I’ll admit, it sure tastes good on occasion.


04-17-2001, 03:03 AM
Well it would be to long to explain all the details here. But Godzilla, you really need to do some research concerning pesticide and herbicide usage. I would reccommend an Agronomy, horticultue, soil science or pest management book or course. Your statements are completely false and misleading. The public has many misconceptions concerning chemical usage in Agricultue due to the fact that only about 1% of US population is engaged in agriculture. Also many radical environmentalist have a "don't confuse me witht he facts mentality" and have had no professional agricultural education. Actually a great book to read-written in layman's terms is: "saving the planet with Plastics and Pesticides" by Dennis Avery. This discusses many aspects invloved with agriculture such as pesticides and feeding the growing population, gentic engineering. AS for my background, I have a BS in Agricultural Science (with an emphasis in INternational Ag developement) from Purdue University and also studied at the Panamerican Schoolof Agriculture in Honduras and did Agricultural research in Vietnam and Cambodia-so I know what I am talking about.

04-17-2001, 04:55 PM
I have had no professional agriculture education and I will pickup and read the book you recommend. By stating my comments are completely false, I’m sure you would agree, you can’t believe everything you read.

Proponents of genetic engineering are well meaning individuals, as are the makers of pesticides.

Credentials and degrees are important goals to reach. I admire your education and congratulate you on your achievements and experience. Unfortunately, it is my belief that Western Agriculture, with all of its man made chemicals, has and will continue to have disastrous effects on the human race long term.

I am also college educated, a business owner, husband and father. I have seen many friends and family die from horrible diseases. I myself have been chronically ill. Seeking health thru food and exercise has cured me of any and all ailments doctors said could not be cured. They all had degrees and credentials hanging on their walls.

I will continue my pursuit of healthier living as I have for many years. I will continue to research and learn from everything I can and stand by my comments above although strong and radical.

God bless,

Mr. Nemo
04-17-2001, 11:00 PM
Thanks for the responses, everyone!

"going on nothing but protien for about 12 days(don't go any longer unless you re-introduce some carbs & fibre) will help you drop inexcess of about 7-8 kilos(or more if you add something like hydroxycut) & can be no worse for the body than a big night out on the drink.(just get ready to be hanging for some carbs) just make sure to drink plenty of water, take a good multi-vitamin & mineral & make sure to use something like silium husks so you can stll go to the tiolet."

What's the story on this and losing muscle? I've been told that going on nothing but protien will cause you to lose lean body mass, but I've also been told there are ways to avoid this.

How much should you exercise on a diet like this? As much as normal? Where can you get silium husks and what exactly are they? What would you consider a good multi-vitamin or mineral?

04-18-2001, 03:31 PM
Highly Toxic or Carcenogenic Chemicals Commonly
Used on Coffee Plants.

2,4 D

We cannot live a life without impact on our natural world. However, we can work towards a greater consciousness of our impacts, and take responsibility for them.

Source: http://www.deansbeans.com/index.html


04-18-2001, 07:06 PM
If anything the protein would help preserve muscle, but you'd have to consume pretty large amounts, like near a gram per pound of bodyweight, all the way up to 1.5 or 2g.
The people I know who've recommended a pure protein diet, always recommended weight lifting, and have a mild disdain for cardio, reluctantly advising 20 min to 1 hour 2~3 times a week.

Personally, I know a guy on an almost pure protein diet. The guy's shredded. He smokes, drinks, and does about every illegal drug you can think of; but he gets tons of girls with his physique- which is like that of the guy in the "Butterfly" video (Crazy Town) but bigger. He told me he does about an hour of cardio daily, on a treadmill or bike. He didn't tell me about any weight lifting- my brother seemed to mention that he used to only do freeweights irregularly, but focused on cardio when he became a fat slob. I'm also not sure if he's taking any illegal supplements, I do know he was arrested for attempting to bring some up from mexico- he got a five-thousand dollar fine for his trouble.

The real kicker is that I heard he was bigger 'n chunkier than me last summer, you'd never get that from lookin at him.

Ah well, I'm just gonna be patient.
As for you, I'd try out that fat fast diet I recommended from www.t-mag.com (http://www.t-mag.com) and invest in a cycle of stacking both T2 & MD6 (Biotest supplements available from www.sportssupplements.com (http://www.sportssupplements.com) ). Stay on that for about 2 weeks, take 2 to 4 weeks off, then do it again. Stay on those 2 supplements for the whole 6 to 8 weeks. When you go off the fat fast, I'd recommend going on the Zone diet, or maybe something with restricted calories, high carbs, low fats & proteins- so that your body can become insuline sensitive again- as well as reteaching your body how to effectively deal with protein. Unless the diet calls for it, I'd stay away from caffeine (except for that contained in the MD6- which is small); and get used to drinking tons of water.

BTW- I've never heard of the water dilluting stomach acids, but I have heard that drinking too much water in a short period of time can be very harmful- but that's like a gallon or 2 in an hour. I think the diet should give you recommendations on how much to drink. Otherwise, I'm pretty sure that a gallon a day won't hurt you.

Thanx for letting me ran

Mr. Nemo
04-18-2001, 09:15 PM
Thanks. That "fat fast diet" guy used a protien powder he had made for him - I might just try the tuna fish and maybe some other stuff. Where can I get flaxseed oil?

04-19-2001, 01:51 AM
About the powder in the article-
I think the new Biotest product Surge is the same stuff that the guy had made for him. It's a high-protein, post-workout drink.
That, the protein that Biotest sells, or any whey protein should do though...

I've seen flaxseed oil at GNC- but it wasn't the greatest.
Try that sportsupplements.com site, and if that don't work lemme know, I'll ask my friend where he got his.