WC Kicking

[GlennR]

Hi All.

Thought id start a post in regards to WC kicking, particularly how you train with them in a sparring enviroment.
Some thoughts would be;
- Do you pad up?
- How hard do you go?
- Do you do any conditioning?
- Do you defend against other kicks?

Good for a start i think

[k gledhill]

- Do you pad up?
shin guards can be worn along with groin guards.


- How hard do you go?

full force front kicks to the groin ? go figure ... we can show kicks to knees, use stop kicks, exercise control. We use wall bags for kicking, dummy, kicking pads etc...


- Do you do any conditioning?

as in shin ? optional , wear and tear prepares you for shin pain , but never like it :D


- Do you defend against other kicks?

Yes

[Lee Chiang Po]

When training it is not necessary to use full force. In fact, one does not have to use force in any measure. It will not effect the ability to use great force if necessary. This goes for punching and kicking techniques. These can be practiced with force on the dummy, pads, anything that will take the force without breaking. You can not, even with the use of pads, take a full force WC kick without acrueing at least some damage. The only kicks I use are stomps, knee, side kick, and forward heel kick.
I was asked by a judge once why since I was a trained martial artist, couldn't I have been a little easier on a person. That sounds good, but I told him that you can not play at it or it will not work. When you are fighting you have to go all in or run. It does not work any other way. However, when you are training with a partner it is not fighting. You and your partner must acknowledge this when a light blow is landed. You have to cooperate in order to train and learn. If you go to delivering full contact blows your training will quickly come to an end.

[wingchunIan]

Hi All.

Thought id start a post in regards to WC kicking, particularly how you train with them in a sparring enviroment.
Some thoughts would be;
- Do you pad up?
- How hard do you go?
- Do you do any conditioning?
- Do you defend against other kicks?

Good for a start i think

1)Hell yes we pad up, ciricket shin guards / riot police armour are the only things I've found that come close to working (and yes I've tried the MT pads that I had from my previous training).
2)Hard - but everything is relative. The structure of the kick makes it impossible to do anything else.
3) only except for chi gerk and the occassional clash during training. I spent years doing conditioning for MT and the best form of desensitisation for your shins is adrenalin.
4) absolutely, all types using footwork and kicks to defend

I absolutely love the kicks in the system

[GlennR]

shin guards can be worn along with groin guards.

Yes, we wear both



full force front kicks to the groin ? go figure ... we can show kicks to knees, use stop kicks, exercise control. We use wall bags for kicking, dummy, kicking pads etc...

Obviously the groin is a no no, when/if you spar do you use front kicks?
Thats generally the easiest to pull of while moving



as in shin ? optional , wear and tear prepares you for shin pain , but never like it :D

Actually (i didnt say it well) i meant conditioning as in the act of throwing a kick. How do you condition increased speed, reflex and power into your kick
Ive noticed that while WC is a punch/kick style, conditioning is often neglected in regards to kicking

[GlennR]

1)Hell yes we pad up, ciricket shin guards / riot police armour are the only things I've found that come close to working (and yes I've tried the MT pads that I had from my previous training).
2)Hard - but everything is relative. The structure of the kick makes it impossible to do anything else.
3) only except for chi gerk and the occassional clash during training. I spent years doing conditioning for MT and the best form of desensitisation for your shins is adrenalin.
4) absolutely, all types using footwork and kicks to defend

I absolutely love the kicks in the system

Thanks Ian
Yep, im pretty much all of the above as well.
And i agree, the kicks are great.... i just think they are somewhat neglected by a lot of people

[Lee Chiang Po]

I went to some tire places and bought up all the old used lawn tractor tires. I have several posts in the ground with a little flex, and then dropped the tires down over the post. You don't have to just stand there kicking till your legs fall off, just when you walk past em kick the hell of of them a few times. Eventually you can kick like a young mule. With WC kicks, speed is not really all that important. You only kick when you can't hardly miss anyway. And most people that can kick real hard can usually kick real fast too.

[anerlich]

Shinpads, groin cup, mouthguard, big or small gloves depending on what we are working on.

After having spent about $35000 on various dental procedures, I'm not a fan of taking any more full power shots to the face. I've had knee surgery too and have no interest in repeating that experience.

Working under constant threat of injury if you make a mistake does not encourage experimentation or creativity. Most of the "tough" schools I've seen don't produce the best fighters because they spend too much time unable to train because of injury or are forced to play it too safe. I train at a school which has produced UFC competitors and winners of national shows, and they don't go all out all the time.

You need to go close to all out occasionally, but doing it all the time is nuts.

Best way to condition the kicking muscles is to do lots of kicking. You can add resistance with bands. Some say "don't use ankle weights whatever you do!" and I agree, but only for fast kicks where the tendons will get damaged through hyperextension. Ankle weights work great for slow to medium speed kicking. Really helps get the kicks up high and retract them fast. Keep the speed down and concentrate on form and there's next to no risk of injury.

[Paul T England]

good post guys,

I agree, many wing chun people don't do enough or understand the kicks. I am still understanding them after many years.

Shin pads, tires & bags for kicking, light partner drills, experiementation with leg controlling and checking (Chi Gerk), grion guards suggested for sparring drills.

Wing Chun kicks are excellent if trained

Paul
www.moifa.co.uk

[GlennR]

good post guys,

I agree, many wing chun people don't do enough or understand the kicks. I am still understanding them after many years.

Shin pads, tires & bags for kicking, light partner drills, experiementation with leg controlling and checking (Chi Gerk), grion guards suggested for sparring drills.

Wing Chun kicks are excellent if trained

Paul
www.moifa.co.uk

Hey paul
So WC without kicking?
Your thoughts?

[LoneTiger108]

Hi All.

Thought id start a post in regards to WC kicking, particularly how you train with them in a sparring enviroment.
Some thoughts would be;
- Do you pad up?
- How hard do you go?
- Do you do any conditioning?
- Do you defend against other kicks?

Good for a start i think

I was going to avoid this one as I have a 'thing' about using the word 'kick' :D

Out of interest, does anyone have a list of the kicks/legwork of Wing Chun? The names of each?

For me personally I favour the legwork because I'm light and need to stay mobile more often than trying to stand ground against much heavier people. Sparring with the legs is very dangerous, imho, unless there are set rules (again there's the word!) not to strike certain points but I do feel it is useful to allow a student to 'let it all out' in the safest possible way, so:

1. Yes. Pad up with whatever works (and remove all footwear!)
2. Go as hard as you can with no footwear!
3. Yes. All my legwork is (was lol!) trained through the wooden man and sandbag/kickbags (with no footwear!) and partner shield practice.
4. I would hope that you can find some decent kickers, especially if you're talking about stuff above the waist. But yes, defend AND attack the legs of a kicker always ;)

[GlennR]

I was going to avoid this one as I have a 'thing' about using the word 'kick' :D

Ill bit Spencer.... whats wrong with the word kick????



For me personally I favour the legwork because I'm light and need to stay mobile more often than trying to stand ground against much heavier people. Sparring with the legs is very dangerous, imho, unless there are set rules (again there's the word!) not to strike certain points but I do feel it is useful to allow a student to 'let it all out' in the safest possible way, so:

1. Yes. Pad up with whatever works (and remove all footwear!)
2. Go as hard as you can with no footwear!
3. Yes. All my legwork is (was lol!) trained through the wooden man and sandbag/kickbags (with no footwear!) and partner shield practice.
4. I would hope that you can find some decent kickers, especially if you're talking about stuff above the waist. But yes, defend AND attack the legs of a kicker always

Question for you.... what % of your training do you practise kicking?

[CFT]

I think Spencer is trying to practice and use a broader scope of 'leg methods' (gerk faat) than just kicks. I'm going to assume he also includes sweeps, trips, stamps, scrapes, etc.

[LoneTiger108]

Ill bit Spencer.... whats wrong with the word kick????

The word we use is 'gerk', which is the common character for 'foot', so a 'dil gerk', as an example is describing the action/movement of the foot! As far as I'm aware there is no word for 'kick' in Wing Chun, just as there is no word for 'punch' because kuen means fist ;)

This is why some of the older Masters would say "There are no kicks in Wing Chun!!" Just a play on words, but I hope that answers your question.


Question for you.... what % of your training do you practise kicking?

It totally depends on who I'm training with. Most can not take it, as you must know lifting the legs all the time if **** exhausting lol!! I was an avid Karate kid who used to kick vertically all the time, with all the spins n sh!t way before all this modern 720 madness lol!! So when I got into the Chun I couldn't understand why everyone, for want of a better word, 'waddled' everywhere!!

Kicking (if we are to call it that!) should be a massive part of your training, and like I've mentioned, all of what I do was trained on the wooden man first (separate from the 108) This type of training, I believe, was the inspiration for my Uncles Kicking Form which is quite well known now in my lineage.

[LoneTiger108]

I think Spencer is trying to practice and use a broader scope of 'leg methods' (gerk faat) than just kicks. I'm going to assume he also includes sweeps, trips, stamps, scrapes, etc.

Your presumption is correct!! :) Although GERK IS FOOT lol!

[GlennR]

[
The word we use is 'gerk', which is the common character for 'foot', so a 'dil gerk', as an example is describing the action/movement of the foot! As far as I'm aware there is no word for 'kick' in Wing Chun, just as there is no word for 'punch' because kuen means fist ;)

This is why some of the older Masters would say "There are no kicks in Wing Chun!!" Just a play on words, but I hope that answers your question.

Fair enough but fist/punch foot/kick its just a difference in terminology to me


It totally depends on who I'm training with. Most can not take it, as you must know lifting the legs all the time if **** exhausting lol!! I was an avid Karate kid who used to kick vertically all the time, with all the spins n sh!t way before all this modern 720 madness lol!! So when I got into the Chun I couldn't understand why everyone, for want of a better word, 'waddled' everywhere!!

Well i got the "waddle" when i started, but i still love kicking. And the waddle does lead to a gerk doesnt it ;)

[Paul T England]

Wing chun without leg & footwork will not work. the body should be used in a integrated way but as basics seperate the movements it shows when people don't have a good understanding of the whole system.

Paul
www.moifa.co.uk

[LoneTiger108]

Fair enough but fist/punch foot/kick its just a difference in terminology to me

No, I would say incorrect translation but I hear Ya :) What I do find is that if you treat the terms 'loosely' and don't care for them 9 times out of 10 you will be hard pressed to actually have the correct Wing Chun terminology altogether.

Say, for example, what are the actual names of all the Wing Chun kicks?

I know there will be variations to terms, as well as numbers, but let's start with 4 (that should be easy enough for everyone here I think!)


Well i got the "waddle" when i started, but i still love kicking. And the waddle does lead to a gerk doesnt it ;)

I suppose ;) Man, I still coach the waddle at the very beginning, and revisit it later when the hips, knees and ankles are more refined so you can see the evolution into, what has recently been termed as, Wing Chuns 'running horse'!! :D

[CFT]

Gerk can mean foot or leg.
腳 - http://humanum.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/lexi-can/search.php?q=%B8%7D

In a martial context it can also mean kick. Just like "tui" can mean leg or kick.

腿 - http://humanum.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/lexi-can/search.php?q=%BBL

[wingchunIan]

Thanks Ian
Yep, im pretty much all of the above as well.
And i agree, the kicks are great.... i just think they are somewhat neglected by a lot of people

I agree Glenn, very overlooked on the most part and then comically added to elsewhere. I guess the sheer simplicity of the kicks and the fact that they look even less spectacular than the hands leads many to either ignore them or to supplement them with additions from MT, karate, TKD etc.

[wingchunIan]

The word we use is 'gerk', which is the common character for 'foot', so a 'dil gerk', as an example is describing the action/movement of the foot! As far as I'm aware there is no word for 'kick' in Wing Chun, just as there is no word for 'punch' because kuen means fist ;)


I agree with the sentiment about the leg techniques being more than just kicks (all of the things that CFT mentioned plus knees, deflections and footwork etc) but this thread was specifically about kicking and although I know its really important to some, I really struggle with the insistence that terminology is so important. Translation and terminology are one of the biggest causes of division in wing chun (along with ego, money etc etc). For the sake of this thread can we just agree that if it looks like a kick, feels like a kick and has the effect of a kick its a kick.

[LoneTiger108]

Gerk can mean foot or leg.
腳 - http://humanum.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/lexi-can/search.php?q=%B8%7D

In a martial context it can also mean kick. Just like "tui" can mean leg or kick.

腿 - http://humanum.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/lexi-can/search.php?q=%BBL

Just as sau/hand can mean arm eh?! :D


For the sake of this thread can we just agree that if it looks like a kick, feels like a kick and has the effect of a kick its a kick.

Yes :D

But I'm still waiting for a comprehensive list (that I do expect to be familiar to Wing Chun students, using Wing Chun terminology!) because, believe it or not, as much as you think the language divides us all (which it does to an extent when you start talking of writing it in English!) it will be the language that finally unites us all!!

Just my end of day rant, so please no offence intended to anyone who can't count to ten! :D ;)

[k gledhill]

Just as sau/hand can mean arm eh?! :D



Yes :D

But I'm still waiting for a comprehensive list (that I do expect to be familiar to Wing Chun students, using Wing Chun terminology!) because, believe it or not, as much as you think the language divides us all (which it does to an extent when you start talking of writing it in English!) it will be the language that finally unites us all!!

Just my end of day rant, so please no offence intended to anyone who can't count to ten! :D ;)


Yat yi saam sei ng lok chat baat gou sahp

[wingchunIan]

Just as sau/hand can mean arm eh?! :D



Yes :D

But I'm still waiting for a comprehensive list (that I do expect to be familiar to Wing Chun students, using Wing Chun terminology!) because, believe it or not, as much as you think the language divides us all (which it does to an extent when you start talking of writing it in English!) it will be the language that finally unites us all!!

Just my end of day rant, so please no offence intended to anyone who can't count to ten! :D ;)

No offence taken. My understanding is that even amongst native cantonese speakers the different lineages have different names for the same techniques and usually show and tell is the best means of communication but difficult over the web!
Anyway to start your list (ignore incorrect romanisation)
jic gerk
tek gerk
wang gerk
pak gerk
would be my first four.....

[LoneTiger108]

Yat yi saam sei ng lok chat baat gou sahp

Impressive Kev! Now tell me your curriculum! :D ;)

[LoneTiger108]

No offence taken. My understanding is that even amongst native cantonese speakers the different lineages have different names for the same techniques and usually show and tell is the best means of communication but difficult over the web!
Anyway to start your list (ignore incorrect romanisation)
jic gerk
tek gerk
wang gerk
pak gerk
would be my first four.....

Haven't heard/read 'tek' before but I'm familiar with the other three as they're terms used in CK aren't they?

Have you got diu gerk? Sow gerK? Chit gerk?

[k gledhill]

Impressive Kev! Now tell me your curriculum! :D ;)

In what language ?

[k gledhill]

Haven't heard/read 'tek' before but I'm familiar with the other three as they're terms used in CK aren't they?

Have you got diu gerk? Sow gerK? Chit gerk?

Try tranalating in english too, or use.

[Vajramusti]

No offence taken. My understanding is that even amongst native cantonese speakers the different lineages have different names for the same techniques and usually show and tell is the best means of communication but difficult over the web!
Anyway to start your list (ignore incorrect romanisation)
jic gerk
tek gerk
wang gerk
pak gerk
would be my first four.....
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Also{1. jing gurk =strike with the top of the heel just below the arch
2. wang gurk = strike with the outside of the heel on the little toe side
3. soo gurk = strike with the inside of the arch
4. yaai sut gurk = strike with the middle of the heel downward
5. tiu gurk = strike with the instep with the toes pointed
6. jut gurk = strike with the lower calf and achilles tendon
7. tai sut = strike with the top or side of the knee with the leg bent
8. chai gurk = strike downward with the knife edge of the foot
-----------------------------------------
In addition to striking motions there also others including pak gurk, bong gurk and wu gurk and huen gurk. tan gurk, fook gurk-- all have their own characteristics. All this is separate and is in addition to all the ma-s, stances/footwork/stepping/turning in different directions.

Good luck with everyone's training.

joy chaudhuri

[GlennR]

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Also{1. jing gurk =strike with the top of the heel just below the arch
2. wang gurk = strike with the outside of the heel on the little toe side
3. soo gurk = strike with the inside of the arch
4. yaai sut gurk = strike with the middle of the heel downward
5. tiu gurk = strike with the instep with the toes pointed
6. jut gurk = strike with the lower calf and achilles tendon
7. tai sut = strike with the top or side of the knee with the leg bent
8. chai gurk = strike downward with the knife edge of the foot
-----------------------------------------
In addition to striking motions there also others including pak gurk, bong gurk and wu gurk and huen gurk. tan gurk, fook gurk-- all have their own characteristics. All this is separate and is in addition to all the ma-s, stances/footwork/stepping/turning in different directions.

Good luck with everyone's training.

joy chaudhuri
Hi Joy
Im interested, how do you train the application of these?
Drills?
Sparring?
Forms?

GlennR

[GlennR]

I agree Glenn, very overlooked on the most part and then comically added to elsewhere. I guess the sheer simplicity of the kicks and the fact that they look even less spectacular than the hands leads many to either ignore them or to supplement them with additions from MT, karate, TKD etc.

Spot on IMO Ian

Personally i think 2 things.

1) Kicking in WC is fundamental to it being succesful in a fight. It was designed that way.

2) You cant add other styles kicks in very well. The closed hip stance doest allow correct execution of kicks from open hip styles.... MT & TKD being 2 that come to mind

[GlennR]

I agree with the sentiment about the leg techniques being more than just kicks (all of the things that CFT mentioned plus knees, deflections and footwork etc) but this thread was specifically about kicking and although I know its really important to some, I really struggle with the insistence that terminology is so important. Translation and terminology are one of the biggest causes of division in wing chun (along with ego, money etc etc). For the sake of this thread can we just agree that if it looks like a kick, feels like a kick and has the effect of a kick its a kick.

Amen to that

[wingchunIan]

Haven't heard/read 'tek' before but I'm familiar with the other three as they're terms used in CK aren't they?

Have you got diu gerk? Sow gerK? Chit gerk?

I've not heard the names before but may well have the actions. Might sound a bit simplistic but any chance of a description or video (even one from you tube by someone else doing the technique no matter how badly)?

[wingchunIan]

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Also{1. jing gurk =strike with the top of the heel just below the arch
2. wang gurk = strike with the outside of the heel on the little toe side
3. soo gurk = strike with the inside of the arch
4. yaai sut gurk = strike with the middle of the heel downward
5. tiu gurk = strike with the instep with the toes pointed
6. jut gurk = strike with the lower calf and achilles tendon
7. tai sut = strike with the top or side of the knee with the leg bent
8. chai gurk = strike downward with the knife edge of the foot


Hi Joy, I suspect that our respective approaches are pretty different which often leads to the best exchanges of ideas. Could you describe the kicking action in the examples above and / or provide video (even stuff from youtube of other people doing stuff even if they are doing it badly would be valuable to the discussion).

[wingchunIan]

[QUOTE=LoneTiger108;1132946]Haven't heard/read 'tek' before but I'm familiar with the other three as they're terms used in CK aren't they?
[/QUOTE

We have tek gerk in CK also, but not pak gerk (which we have in the jong form). Tek gerk looks very similar in shape to jic gerk but has a lifting / rising action without the thrusting action of the jic gerk. I'll root out some footage from somewhere to show each from my understanding.

[Vajramusti]

Hi Joy, I suspect that our respective approaches are pretty different which often leads to the best exchanges of ideas. Could you describe the kicking action in the examples above and / or provide video (even stuff from youtube of other people doing stuff even if they are doing it badly would be valuable to the discussion).
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ian- answering your question:yes we are likely to be doing different versions of wing chun. I am not in the UK I am in Phoenix Arizona. I don't have a video and didn't learn via video.

In addition to the 8 dummy kicks there are other kicks that I use and have mentioned them-
they are also good for blocking-- bong gerk, fook gerk, tan gerk, pak gerk, nailing kick.
The 8 dummy form kicks that i mentioned were:
1. jing gurk =strike with the top of the heel just below the arch
2. wang gurk = strike with the outside of the heel on the little toe side
3. soo gurk = strike with the inside of the arch
4. yaai sut gurk = strike with the middle of the heel downward
5. tiu gurk = strike with the instep with the toes pointed
6. jut gurk = strike with the lower calf and achilles tendon
7. tai sut = strike with the top or side of the knee with the leg bent
8. chai gurk = strike downward with the knife edge of the foot
The motions are relatively self explanatory and emerge naturally without telegraphing, from a good wing chun structure..
front kick, side kick, sweep, stomp, too of the instep, quick jerk down, different parts of the knee, scrape down....

joy chaudhuri

[wingchunIan]

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ian- answering your question:yes we are likely to be doing different versions of wing chun. I am not in the UK I am in Phoenix Arizona. I don't have a video and didn't learn via video.

In addition to the 8 dummy kicks there are other kicks that I use and have mentioned them-
they are also good for blocking-- bong gerk, fook gerk, tan gerk, pak gerk, nailing kick.
The 8 dummy form kicks that i mentioned were:
1. jing gurk =strike with the top of the heel just below the arch
2. wang gurk = strike with the outside of the heel on the little toe side
3. soo gurk = strike with the inside of the arch
4. yaai sut gurk = strike with the middle of the heel downward
5. tiu gurk = strike with the instep with the toes pointed
6. jut gurk = strike with the lower calf and achilles tendon
7. tai sut = strike with the top or side of the knee with the leg bent
8. chai gurk = strike downward with the knife edge of the foot
The motions are relatively self explanatory and emerge naturally without telegraphing, from a good wing chun structure..
front kick, side kick, sweep, stomp, too of the instep, quick jerk down, different parts of the knee, scrape down....

joy chaudhuri

Joy, please read my posts before responding mate rather than assuming I'm the same as certain others on these threads. I at no point inferred that you learnt from a video, I was asking you, as I have done to others to upload video to illustrate what you have listed. As I pointed out what we are practising sounds very different (I don't think geography has anything to do with it) and so your list makes very little sense to me. That is not critiscm simply it doesn't mean anything to me so i would like you to describe each kick in more detail to help me to understand, what is the direction and angle of force? where is the knee in relation to the ankle and hip? what is the foot position?
As someone said on here the other day, these threads don't have to be about whose right and whose wrong or trying, convert each other, or a slag fest, they can be a healthy exchange of ideas and dialogue to increase understanding if we let them.

[Vajramusti]

Joy, please read my posts before responding mate rather than assuming I'm the same as certain others on these threads. I at no point inferred that you learnt from a video, I was asking you, as I have done to others to upload video to illustrate what you have listed. As I pointed out what we are practising sounds very different (I don't think geography has anything to do with it) and so your list makes very little sense to me. That is not critiscm simply it doesn't mean anything to me so i would like you to describe each kick in more detail to help me to understand, what is the direction and angle of force? where is the knee in relation to the ankle and hip? what is the foot position?
As someone said on here the other day, these threads don't have to be about whose right and whose wrong or trying, convert each other, or a slag fest, they can be a healthy exchange of ideas and dialogue to increase understanding if we let them.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ian- easy to mis-communicate . My comment on not learning from video- simply was intended to reinforce that I don't have a video and I am not much of a camera/video person.
The comment on geography was to just point out that I could not physically demonstrate to you. No metaphysics involved.

We distinguish between developing a kick and applying a kick in real situation. For development all of those leg motions can be applied on the dummy or practiced from yee gee kim yeung ma. All directed at the center line. No chambering of the kicks. The knee is the master and controls the direction, motion and target of the kick.
I forget which line of wing chun did you come from? My intent was to share info. Difficult in a net forum.

joy chaudhuri

[LoneTiger108]

I've not heard the names before but may well have the actions. Might sound a bit simplistic but any chance of a description or video (even one from you tube by someone else doing the technique no matter how badly)?

No videos from me I'm afraid! Not until I upgrade my ancient PC anyhow :o

[Lee Chiang Po]

I calls anything done with a foot a kick. Gerk is the sound people make when you slap them in the throat.

[anerlich]

I calls anything done with a foot a kick. Gerk is the sound people make when you slap them in the throat.

"Gerk" is the sound I made in my younger days when I drank too much and ended up in the bathroom on my knees making a long distance call on the big white telephone.

[Yoshiyahu]

I suggest you practice your WC kicks with a Non-Wing Chun guy who is does a kicking style and also boxing...

So you can see how effective your kickin is an how you can make it better!

[Vajramusti]

I suggest you practice your WC kicks with a Non-Wing Chun guy who is does a kicking style and also boxing...

So you can see how effective your kickin is an how you can make it better!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Depends on openings.

[Yoshiyahu]

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Depends on openings.

Please elaborate?