Money,Money,Money must be funny.

[Dark Chi]

Simple question-Who here on these forums pay for their Kung fu lessons,or charge for Kung fu lessons?

Please be clear to tell us why if you do?

Please be clear why to those who don't pay or charge for lessons.

I din't pay or charge because its all family related maybe I was lucky I don't know also I don't look down on anyone who does charge and pay for lessons.
I believe even if I did teach outsiders I wouldn't charge and would be 100% free as I would teach outside in the communal parks in rain,sun,snow etc.

It is a fact that 2 of our legendary Founders/Teachers Chong Li Chan and Yip Man(yes in that order) Did start teaching for money the stopped and I wonder if anyone knew why?

[bawang]

white people dont come if you dont charge monies

[Dark Chi]

white people dont come if you dont charge monies


LOL. Thats terrible but funny 10/10 for humour.

[David Jamieson]

Oddly enough, there is a small truth in what Bawang says.

It's a social construct thing whereby all things have a dollar value associated with it.

So, It's generally thought that if you pay top dollar for instruction, it is believed you are getting top instruction as well.

This is the part of the social construct that has been cleverly picked up upon by some of the more unscrupulous practitioners who take advantage of this one sticking point in the stupidity of western liberal democracy inhabitants.

If you run a school, rent a facility and provide a facility, there is nothing wrong with charging a fee for that as well as your time and effort towards teaching what are otherwise strangers who for the most part come and go, drop out, miss classes etc etc because they feel entitled to do so due to their 50% of the bargain they've created in their mind, whereby they believe their payment is of the same value as the teachings.

They are of course wrong, but it is irrelevant because those people are the very people who do not return, do not complete and do not carry through with kung fu in their life.

Finding someone worth sharing kung fu with is rare. Really.
But one could easily drum up paying students with a few flyers and a convenient location. Heck, guys gotta eat, gotta keep the lights on and all that.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I've noticed that people put in more effort and believe they get more out of something when they pay for it.

[pazman]

I don't pay money for gongfu. The lessons are not regular and entirely up to the teacher's schedule and temperament. He doesn't teach me a lot but what he does teach me is cherished. I pay for the lessons with sweat and baijiu.

I do pay for membership at a sanda gym. There are a lot of weights, nice equipment, and a clean leitai. There are always coaches to give me expert advice and push me to a new level.

Both ways are suitable.:)

[Paul T England]

I charge students and also expect to pay when I am a student. I have bills to pay, equipment to buy.

It does seem true that people value things more when they pay for it.

How many teachers have had students not turn up for class. You put the effort in, students don't turn up, or your training partners don't turn up.

two other things are true.

Many teachers are not really putting much effort into teaching students so by not charging its kind of you get what you pay for depending on how the teacher feels. (Obviously there are exceptions to the rule, both ways)

also whatever you pay for real teaching is not much compared to what you should get in return.

Paul
www.moifa.co.uk

[Jimbo]

People in general DO value something more when they pay for it.

In Taiwan, my late second northern-style teacher was still a young man (only a couple years older than I was), and he once told me that when he started out teaching, he offered free lessons for one year, hoping to develop a good baseline of students. After that, he would charge new students a fee, but would allow the original students to continue for free.

Well, he hardly had any takers. And the few students he did get never stayed, because they didn't value what he had to offer, even though he was a very good teacher.

Once he began charging, students began appearing. One guy, who had been a free student, came back after a couple years, but my teacher told him that now he'd have to pay like everyone else. This he gladly accepted, and stayed with him for a good while. That student even admitted that he placed a lesser value on the kung fu when it was offered for free, maybe even found it suspicious, even though the teachings were essentially the same.

My teacher told me that it's easy to be a student. All you have to do is find a good teacher, follow instructions, and train really hard. He said that it's far more difficult to be a teacher, to find a good student who will really learn, practice and absorb what you have to teach. I agree with his words.

[TenTigers]

makes sense. If you don't value it, then why should I?

[Faruq]

I was once told by a guy that he would visit the park in his local Chinatown where the old guys did Tai Chi in the mornings. This guy also was taking lessons for a Southern System at a local school (he might've felt they wer holding back on the material at the local school, I don't remember, but maybe he was looking to supplement his lessons by learning more at the park). Anyway, he would go push hands with the old guys over at the park mornings every weekend, and they eventually asked him if he studied any style of kung fu? He told them the style he was studying at the school. Eventually they pointed out one of the old gentlemen to him and told him that he taught the style the student was studying at the school. So the young guy/student started asking the old guy to teach him every weekend when he'd see him. So one day, the old guy is fed up with the impertinent young guy and dim mak's him. The young guy starts screaming and his spleen explodes right on the spot! Okay, okay. Just making sure you guys were paying attention. So after about a year of this young guy asking the old guy to teach him every weekend, the old guy comes up to him and says if you really want me to teach you, come with me to yam cha. When they get there, the old guy says: "If you want to learn from me, you've got to be serious! I don't take students, only disciples! Are you sure you want to learn?" The young guy assures him he's serious. The old guy tells him to pour him a cup of tea, and the young guy does. The old guy tells the young guy that he is now his disciple, and tells him when and where to meet him for his first lesson. He never charged the young guy anything, and the young guy was so happy with the material he learned from the old guy that he stopped taking lessons at the school. To this day the young guy is ecstatic with his good fortune in finding this teacher and recommends this same method for finding a teacher to anyone that asks him.

[Dark Chi]

A very nice story Mr Faruq :)

[TenTigers]

Faruq, are you referring to my friend, "Dragonclaw?" Because that is his exact story.

[bawang]

real men dont charge money for kung fu because its priceless.

sure you get less students, but if you are scared to have few students you are insecure.

[Yum Cha]

We have a non-commercial school.

Nobody cares if you don't come back.
Nobody pays any attention to you unless you earn it by training and working.
Everybody understands they owe the master for his generosity from the beginning.
Anybody looking for quick fixes and instant results is quickly brushed off.

We never attract a-holes or trouble makers...

And everybody knows they owe the master and the seniors a debt they can only repay by respecting the art and their kung fu family. There are at least 15 of us with 10 years experience, and at least 5 next generation sifu's. They are the ones the students go to, the ones that demonstrate their skills day after day, not somehow anointed by pelf.

Nothing is purchased, everything must be earned.

Hey, works for me.:D

[Dark Chi]

We have a non-commercial school.

Nobody cares if you don't come back.
Nobody pays any attention to you unless you earn it by training and working.
Everybody understands they owe the master for his generosity from the beginning.
Anybody looking for quick fixes and instant results is quickly brushed off.

We never attract a-holes or trouble makers...

And everybody knows they owe the master and the seniors a debt they can only repay by respecting the art and their kung fu family. There are at least 15 of us with 10 years experience, and at least 5 next generation sifu's. They are the ones the students go to, the ones that demonstrate their skills day after day, not somehow anointed by pelf.

Nothing is purchased, everything must be earned.

Hey, works for me.:D

Very nice Mr Yum Cha sounds successful.

on a side note,Mr Gary from a different thread seems not so successful and I think he is in the same area(well not so popular on this forum should I say).
Why is that?Do you think he promotes it badly?

[jdhowland]

I don't charge because I wasn't charged and I don't have to make a living from it. If I had to pay rent I would charge, simple as that. The best reason for not receiving money is that I don't have to be beholden to anyone to reciprocate. I don't become a hired servant.

[Yum Cha]

I seem to remember in Tae Kwon Do, after a certain level, maybe red or black, you didn't pay fees anymore, the thinking being, that was your compensation for teaching so much of the class.

I wonder if that de-motivated any of the black belts?

:D

I think that issues of liability change with a non commercial school. No different than a bunch of guys playing soccer in the park.

[bawang]

I don't charge because I wasn't charged and I don't have to make a living from it. If I had to pay rent I would charge, simple as that. The best reason for not receiving money is that I don't have to be beholden to anyone to reciprocate. I don't become a hired servant.

this man has honr

[Dark Chi]

I seem to remember in Tae Kwon Do, after a certain level, maybe red or black, you didn't pay fees anymore, the thinking being, that was your compensation for teaching so much of the class.

I wonder if that de-motivated any of the black belts?

:D

I think that issues of liability change with a non commercial school. No different than a bunch of guys playing soccer in the park.

Interesting Thanks Mr Yum cha

[Dark Chi]

this man has honr

Been looking through Youtube again :rolleyes: and you know what dawned on me?
I could teach my art for alot of money AND con the hell out of poeple,and I mean filthy rich..........hmmm?

LOL who want in??? Just jking

[Faruq]

That would spoil the art even worse, lol! You want to be the Sifu known for having the most students who are competent and duplicate his success. Then you'll be unique!

[sanjuro_ronin]

I seem to remember in Tae Kwon Do, after a certain level, maybe red or black, you didn't pay fees anymore, the thinking being, that was your compensation for teaching so much of the class.

I wonder if that de-motivated any of the black belts?

:D

I think that issues of liability change with a non commercial school. No different than a bunch of guys playing soccer in the park.

That was the case with me.
It become my responsibility to teach kids classes and to warm-up or teach the adult classes.
It was a learning process for me and helped my MA very, very much.
I also felt even MORE obligated to be better.
That I was paying for MA training never motivated me any more or less, that's just not me.

[Dark Chi]

That would spoil the art even worse, lol! You want to be the Sifu known for having the most students who are competent and duplicate his success. Then you'll be unique!

Mr Faruq you'd be the first on my hit list lol

$9999 please ka-ching lol

[Dark Chi]

I don't charge because I wasn't charged and I don't have to make a living from it. If I had to pay rent I would charge, simple as that. The best reason for not receiving money is that I don't have to be beholden to anyone to reciprocate. I don't become a hired servant.

Very nice and Pure hearted.

What do you think Mr Faruq?

[once ronin]

Harry Ng had 2 levels of students. The ones that took care of him as a father and the ones that took care of him as a master.

Once these teachers have a core of students, examples to follow, they tend not to worry too much about money. Their students worried for them.

There is also teachers out there know that their skill are high enough, that they know their students will never catch up to them. Why hold back and why charge for learning basics.

[Faruq]

Very nice and Pure hearted.

What do you think Mr Faruq?

My humble opinion is that that is how it should be. It says on Mike Doucet's web site that Pak Mei masters are business owners who happen to be masters of Pak Mei. They don't make their living from Pak Mei. You have said this a few times here already as well, Mr Dark Chi (you'd be a real-life version of Jason Bourne/Matt Damon, kicking butt and taking names all over!!!).

[Dark Chi]

My humble opinion is that that is how it should be. It says on Mike Doucet's web site that Pak Mei masters are business owners who happen to be masters of Pak Mei. They don't make their living from Pak Mei. You have said this a few times here already as well, Mr Dark Chi (you'd be a real-life version of Jason Bourne/Matt Damon, kicking butt and taking names all over!!!).

Who is Jason Bourne/Matt Damon?
Is he filthy rich from teaching KF? Yes I could be that!!! (dreams of lots of Gold coins dropping from heaven)
Never mind I'll Google him.

[Faruq]

Who is Jason Bourne/Matt Damon?
Is he filthy rich from teaching KF? Yes I could be that!!! (dreams of lots of Gold coins dropping from heaven)
Never mind I'll Google him.

No, he's a spy that uses his CIA combat techniques in his movies to effortlessly mow down the dozens of foreign operatives that relentlessly come at him (in the movies of course).

[Dark Chi]

No, he's a spy that uses his CIA combat techniques in his movies to effortlessly mow down the dozens of foreign operatives that relentlessly come at him (in the movies of course).

Oh right, so many movies to watch.............sigh

[Faruq]

No need to watch the movie. You've got the moves he uses in real life! Better ones I'm sure, in fact!

[Dark Chi]

No need to watch the movie. You've got the moves he uses in real life! Better ones I'm sure, in fact!

Oh LOL I think movie moves vrs real life moves are totally different in my experiences,even youtube LOL.

I like them wing chun flurry moves LOL In PM we both know there is no second hit LOL

[Faruq]

Oh LOL I think movie moves vrs real life moves are totally different in my experiences,even youtube LOL.

I like them wing chun flurry moves LOL In PM we both know there is no second hit LOL

I wish I was privy to that kind of PM knowledge!

[sanjuro_ronin]

Opened because I am so awesome:D

[Faruq]

Opened because I am so awesome:D

What about the burning palm thread? That whole thing just disappeared, lol!

[diego]

I wish I was privy to that kind of PM knowledge! one of my teachers was nice enough to show us a clip of Sigung Chow Fook teaching students in HK in the 70s he did the whole form you only see a bit of on utube and a bunch of weapons theres tons of material locked in private vaults...does any one have video of Chueng Lai Chuens sons doing a demo?.

[sanjuro_ronin]

What about the burning palm thread? That whole thing just disappeared, lol!

It's back, I just need to read the whole thread to make sure it was ok.

[-N-]

Simple question-Who here on these forums pay for their Kung fu lessons,or charge for Kung fu lessons?

Please be clear to tell us why if you do?

Please be clear why to those who don't pay or charge for lessons.


I don't charge.

KF is part of my cultural heritage, and it's not for sale to random people.

I choose who I give it to. And it's for teaching those to have the physical, mental, and spiritual abilities to overcome their challenges and oppressions.

[YouKnowWho]

people dont come if you dont charge monies
I taught in The Univ. of Kansas at Lawrence for free and I had 3 students. A year later I taught in The Univ. of Texas at Austn for certain amount of fee and I had 50 students.

[-N-]

You can teach 3 students for free, and have 2 good ones.

Or you can teach 300 students for money, and have 2 good ones.

Do you want 100 times the frustration?

[YouKnowWho]

You can teach 3 students for free, and have 2 good ones.

Or you can teach 300 students for money, and have 2 good ones.

Do you want 100 times the frustration?

It's hard to have 75% successful rate (2 out of 3). It's easier to have 4% successful rate (2 out of 50).

When someone challenges you, it's easier for that person to beat your 3 students and get to you. It's harder for that person to beat all your 50 students and get to you. :D

[-N-]

You just have to be picky about which 3. :)

[-N-]

When someone challenges you, it's easier for that person to beat your 3 students and get to you. It's harder for that person to beat all your 50 students and get to you. :D

LOL!

Reminds me of the old kf movies when the whole school is fighting and you can see that most look like crap. :rolleyes:

[-N-]

WHF, the Mantis King, taught something like 6000 students.

Out of those, 21 were authorized to teach. Less than 1/2%.