how would you defend against this?

[IronFist]

Hugging sucker punch.

http://i.imgur.com/GVpBU.gif

Also, is that the Fonz?

[Subitai]

Haha, Funny!! Basic self defense man...or common sense ie.

Either, he (you hit 1st) or you shouldn't have PUFFED up, stuck your chest out and let the guy so close.

If a guy can't FEEL the bad vibes or body english comin' his way...then he lacks street smarts.

"O"

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

I would hug him back. This would jamb his punching arm, and have me on the inside to controll his head.

Violently inflating the dantien during this would also seriously F up this guys attack.

Then you can run right through him.

This only worked because the guys hands were down.

[wenshu]

Larry Merchant has an opinion about this.

[goju]

hit him immediately when the conflict starts

[IronFist]

I thought the dude doing the punching was pretty fast.

I never understood the "puffing up" thing. It puts you in a bad position as far as fighting goes; chest stuck out, arms either at your side or extended outwards in a "T" position. I mean I understand what guys are trying to do when they do it, but it doesn't seem like the best position to be in if something is about to go down.

Actually, I think what the "puffing out" position is doing is subcommunicating that you are so high status that you don't even need to worry about being in a fighting position. You're so high status the the other person needs to back down.

Jockeying for status and position is often a game of subtleties anyway. A person who makes a big grandiose display in response is usually violating social norms and will likely lose status in the process.

I have seen people ****ed at each other and literally bumping chests, arms out at their sides, trying to puff up and look big and saying "you wanna go?" or "come at me, bro!" trying to get the other guy to start. Usually nothing happens, and they both eventually back down while calling each other "pvssy", etc. I don't think either guy wanted to actually fight. It's just to try and appear more dominant. If either person really wanted to fight, they would be striking, not trying to entice the other one into striking first.

It's a game of subtleties. If you puff out your chest and say "you wanna hit me bro?" or whatever, if the other guy doesn't hit you, then you win. The other guy backs down, and you are established as the alpha. You called his bluff that he didn't actually want to fight. This is usually followed up with comments like "yeah, I didn't think so, b.itch!" as the other guy backs down.

If the guy actually does hit you in response, then technically "he started it" which may give you the advantage in the legal realm. I don't think a court of law cares if you were "coerced" or whatever into fighting. Kind of like how kids get bullied for years, and then one day stand up for themselves and break the bully's nose, and then get in trouble for fighting, as if the reasons don't matter. Obviously that's a little different than some dudes at a bar, but still.

I'm not an expert, but I believe that if someone actually did "wanna go," they would just hit you rather than asking you or trying to get you to start it, especially considering that often in real life, the person who starts it ends up winning.

I much prefer the defensive "hey, I don't want a problem" posture with your arms up, elbows bent, and palms outward. Not only is it body language defensive, but you're in a good position to strike/block.

[Ben Gash]

Read The Fence by Geoff Thompson.

[goju]

the puffing out thing is almost like an animal habit.How they try to make themselves appear bigger and intimidating to their enemies by standing a certain way.

must be a throw back to our monkey ancestors:D

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

the puffing out thing is almost like an animal habit.How they try to make themselves appear bigger and intimidating to their enemies by standing a certain way.

must be a throw back to our monkey ancestors:D

Back then we would be beating our chests too, which is how we kept our hands up.

[ginosifu]

There is no defense against this attack. When someone gets within your personal space, you can not react quick enough. There is something called the "Action / Reaction distance line", once someone crosses this line into your personal space he can do what ever he wants and you will not be able to do nothing to stop him. Basically he can "Act" quicker then you can "React".

To prevent this you must not let someone into your personal space. If you do and they hit you.... well then that's your own fault for letting him get that close.

ginosifu

[sanjuro_ronin]

There is no defense against this attack. When someone gets within your personal space, you can not react quick enough. There is something called the "Action / Reaction distance line", once someone crosses this line into your personal space he can do what ever he wants and you will not be able to do nothing to stop him. Basically he can "Act" quicker then you can "React".

To prevent this you must not let someone into your personal space. If you do and they hit you.... well then that's your own fault for letting him get that close.

ginosifu

Gino is quite correct.
The only thing one can "learn" to do is to take a shot.
Learn how to react when you get hit, make it instinctive:
Go with the strike, bring your hands up to cover and defend.
Through consistent sparring one learns how to "read" what comes from "below" or "outside" the radar - which is where sucker punches come from typically.
One "learns" how to absorbe and "take the shot".
Also not getting that close to anyone with hostile intent with hands down and making oneself an even bigger target, would most certainly help

[LSWCTN1]

Seemed like an elbow to me? either way, he's done this before...!

[David Jamieson]

get cha hands up!!! for god's sake he's facing you, how is that a sucker punch? That's actually poor decision making on the part of green shirt.

[bawang]

i would relax my tendons, compress my spine and ribcage and power up my tanden. bridge, tickle the testicles, then BAM willow leaf palm to the throat.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

There is no defense against this attack. When someone gets within your personal space, you can not react quick enough. There is something called the "Action / Reaction distance line", once someone crosses this line into your personal space he can do what ever he wants and you will not be able to do nothing to stop him. Basically he can "Act" quicker then you can "React".

To prevent this you must not let someone into your personal space. If you do and they hit you.... well then that's your own fault for letting him get that close.

ginosifu

I disagree totally. I grew up in an Italian neighborhood, where we all talk with our hands. In confrontations, you keep your hand motions between chest, and shoulder level. This gives YOU the controll of the space (it's why we do it, especially when we start becoming agitated).

If he tries to close the gap for the hug and the hook, all you do is shove his shoulder or bicep at the slightest flinch, as you say some sort of sterio typical Dago tough guy talk. Then blast him with a right cross wile he's trying to figure out why you didn't get hit.

[IronFist]

i would relax my tendons, compress my spine and ribcage and power up my tanden. bridge, tickle the testicles, then BAM willow leaf palm to the throat.

I would just qi blast him before he got that close.

Or I would just use iron vest so that when he hit me I wouldn't get hurt, then stand there and laugh.

[bawang]

i dont use qi blast because it would kill. i am a man of peas.

[Lee Chiang Po]

The ideal defense would have been to maintain his distance, take a please don't hit me stance, occupy his own center line with his hands and arms, and then try to talk the other guy out of fighting. It usually don't work as the other guy then views you as weak or cowardly and will press the attack. However, this now puts him at a distinct disadvantage. On the other hand, it might take away his fears as well as his aggressive posturing.
There is usually always a defense against every situation, but I think Gino is right. If you move that close and take a posture like that guy did, you would be out of options.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

The ideal defense would have been to maintain his distance, take a please don't hit me stance, occupy his own center line with his hands and arms, and then try to talk the other guy out of fighting. It usually don't work as the other guy then views you as weak or cowardly and will press the attack. However, this now puts him at a distinct disadvantage. On the other hand, it might take away his fears as well as his aggressive posturing.
There is usually always a defense against every situation, but I think Gino is right. If you move that close and take a posture like that guy did, you would be out of options.

Ur not out of options if your hands are where they belong. The guy would eat a cross, or an elbow, or something if he tried that.

[Faruq]

I disagree totally. I grew up in an Italian neighborhood, where we all talk with our hands. In confrontations, you keep your hand motions between chest, and shoulder level. This gives YOU the controll of the space (it's why we do it, especially when we start becoming agitated).

If he tries to close the gap for the hug and the hook, all you do is shove his shoulder or bicep at the slightest flinch, as you say some sort of sterio typical Dago tough guy talk. Then blast him with a right cross wile he's trying to figure out why you didn't get hit.

Nice! Controlling your space seems quite key in this situation.

[sanjuro_ronin]

You scientists do realize that IF his hands were up then it wouldn't be like in the gif, right?
:rolleyes:

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

You scientists do realize that IF his hands were up then it wouldn't be like in the gif, right?
:rolleyes:

Of course not. If it had been someone with more skill, Fonzie would have either had his clock cleaned, or had to work way harder for his win.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

Nice! Controlling your space seems quite key in this situation.

It's key in every situation.

[Lucas]

i like how the guy wrapped his left hand around greens lower back so he couldnt pull back from the punch. i have a rule, if somone gets agro on me, i put up the dukes. i dont talk sh!t back and forth, im not going to play some word games and posture to see who has the best comebacks. you want a piece, you can come get it. if im ready and you try to chest bump me or get in my space, thats your problem.

[YouKnowWho]

you must not let someone into your personal space.

You should train yourself in such a way that when someone gets into your personal space, your foot will kick out without receiving OK from your brain. It should be sub-concious response.

In all the MA training, I cannot find another skill that's more important than this.

[sanjuro_ronin]

All you guys fail to see that this is just another failure of TCMA training.
Obviously the guy in green tried to use his iron face technique to break the other guys hand.
His chi was off and his internal power structure was misaligned, that's all.

[sanjuro_ronin]

You should train yourself in such a way that when someone gets into your personal space, your foot will kick out without receiving OK from your brain. It should be sub-concious response.

In all the MA training, I cannot find another skill that's more important than this.

You must be a riot when you ride the bus !
:D

[Lucas]

All you guys fail to see that this is just another failure of TCMA training.
Obviously the guy in green tried to use his iron face technique to break the other guys hand.
His chi was off and his internal power structure was misaligned, that's all.

thats cuz he doesnt have the real internal

[Lucas]

You must be a riot when you ride the bus !
:D

lol seriously. i have this issue where when people go to put a hand on my shoulder or somesuch i automatically swat it away. i used to do that to my old boss all the time, it was actually pretty funny. he stopped trying to pat me on the shoulder

[wenshu]

All you guys fail to see that this is just another failure of TCMA training.
Obviously the guy in green tried to use his iron face technique to break the other guys hand.
His chi was off and his internal power structure was misaligned, that's all.

Always check your duntien for proper inflation!

[YouKnowWho]

You must be a riot when you ride the bus !
:D
The moment that your opponent shifts weigh from his back leg into his leading leg, the moment that your foot "step" and "push" on his leading leg knee joint. If your opponent's leading leg is straight (your kick will prevent his knee to be bending), his fist won't be able to reach you. That will stop his forward momentum 100%.

[sanjuro_ronin]

The moment that your opponent shifts weigh on his leading leg, the moment that your foot "step" and "push" on that knee joint. That will stop his forward momentum 100%.

Well, we have seen that the "attack his fist with your face" doesn't seem to work.
:D

[YouKnowWho]

Well, we have seen that the "attack his fist with your face" doesn't seem to work.
:D
This is my favor clip to show my point. It's not an easy skill to develop. In order not to be pushed back by your opponent's forward momentum, your body need to have good structure, connection, and alignment. IMO, this skill is well worth for your training time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G31h5gbazwU (at 4.25)

[sanjuro_ronin]

This is my favor clip to show my point. It's not an easy skill to develop. In order not to be pushed back by your opponent's forward momentum, your body need to have good structure, connection, and alignment. IMO, this skill is well worth for your training time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G31h5gbazwU (at 4.25)

One thing I learned in my years of bouncing: The sucker punches WORKS and it comes in all sizes and shapes.
While there is no "set response" for all, they do tend to have a few commonalities that can be defend against.
Never square yourself up to anyone, put your good hand back ( they like to grab/stab/cut your lead hand).
Chin down.
Work on your "oh sh1t !!" defense ( this is the tired and true "shield/cover" you get into when you are under a surprise attack).
Understand what happens to you when you get hit ( and you will get hit).
ACT, don't RE-ACT.

[Yum Cha]

head butt
finished 180 degrees different.:D

[Yum Cha]

One thing I learned in my years of bouncing: The sucker punches WORKS and it comes in all sizes and shapes.
While there is no "set response" for all, they do tend to have a few commonalities that can be defend against.
Never square yourself up to anyone, put your good hand back ( they like to grab/stab/cut your lead hand).
Chin down.
Work on your "oh sh1t !!" defense ( this is the tired and true "shield/cover" you get into when you are under a surprise attack).
Understand what happens to you when you get hit ( and you will get hit).
ACT, don't RE-ACT.

More good oil from the MAN!

and as the video demonstrates, if you do square up hit first and fast.

The issue, as John also pointed out, by the time blows are exchanged, a lot of strategic issues concerning engagement, distance and opportunity should have been controlled to advantage, if you've been surprised, you're f-ed. Honour fights with the chest puffing are a rare occurrence for most people, but some times young guys will try it on...

[ginosifu]

I disagree totally. I grew up in an Italian neighborhood, where we all talk with our hands. In confrontations, you keep your hand motions between chest, and shoulder level. This gives YOU the controll of the space (it's why we do it, especially when we start becoming agitated).

If he tries to close the gap for the hug and the hook, all you do is shove his shoulder or bicep at the slightest flinch, as you say some sort of sterio typical Dago tough guy talk. Then blast him with a right cross wile he's trying to figure out why you didn't get hit.

The Action / Reaction distance is a scientifically proven technique. If someone is within arms reach of you, they can successfully "Act" before you can "React".

This is not to say that you should not have your arms up and protecting your center. Or to say that could not cover up and:


The moment that your opponent shifts weigh from his back leg into his leading leg, the moment that your foot "step" and "push" on his leading leg knee joint. If your opponent's leading leg is straight (your kick will prevent his knee to be bending), his fist won't be able to reach you. That will stop his forward momentum 100%.

There is always something you can do, however when you let a person in this close, you are probably going to hit in some way.

ginosifu

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

This is my favor clip to show my point. It's not an easy skill to develop. In order not to be pushed back by your opponent's forward momentum, your body need to have good structure, connection, and alignment. IMO, this skill is well worth for your training time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G31h5gbazwU (at 4.25)

This is an awesome movie. To this day, I carry a 7 foot sharpened trunk from a small tree, just in case I meet a bear. :p

[Dragonzbane76]

I'd like to chest bump that, or perform some other explicit thing to her!

http://cdn3.knowyourmeme.com/i/16920/original/11614bump.jpg?1252353374

[Yum Cha]

This is my favor clip to show my point. It's not an easy skill to develop. In order not to be pushed back by your opponent's forward momentum, your body need to have good structure, connection, and alignment. IMO, this skill is well worth for your training time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G31h5gbazwU (at 4.25)

Nice, Luk Dim Boon Lo Sai Gwan.....half past 6, left handed fishing pole....

They should have flanked the bear earlier.....:D

[Lee Chiang Po]

Ur not out of options if your hands are where they belong. The guy would eat a cross, or an elbow, or something if he tried that.

Reread my post. I pretty much said that.

[Blacktiger]

Hugging sucker punch.

http://i.imgur.com/GVpBU.gif

Also, is that the Fonz?

Got onto this late - but, HANDS UP - basic self defense.

If you let someone get in that close with you hands down past your waist then....its Hammer, please dont hurt em.

[PalmStriker]

There is no defense against this attack. When someone gets within your personal space, you can not react quick enough. There is something called the "Action / Reaction distance line", once someone crosses this line into your personal space he can do what ever he wants and you will not be able to do nothing to stop him. Basically he can "Act" quicker then you can "React".

To prevent this you must not let someone into your personal space. If you do and they hit you.... well then that's your own fault for letting him get that close.

ginosifu
Agreed. Big mistake, probably learned from it, hopefully.

[dillman]

only your ki can protect you

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45hWbIy5Fkk

[ginosifu]

only your ki can protect you

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45hWbIy5Fkk

Yeah sure you can learn some type of combat ki or iron body or whatever, and throw all your common sense out the window. (Geeesh)

Acting like a fool by letting someone into your personal space without your hands up or being unprepared for an altercation is just being an idiot. I don't care if you can take a hit to the throat or balls you are still an idiot.

ginosifu

[dillman]

Yeah sure you can learn some type of combat ki or iron body or whatever, and throw all your common sense out the window. (Geeesh)

Acting like a fool by letting someone into your personal space without your hands up or being unprepared for an altercation is just being an idiot. I don't care if you can take a hit to the throat or balls you are still an idiot.

ginosifu

i'm sorry you don't know how to protect yourself

[Iron_Eagle_76]

i'm sorry you don't know how to protect yourself

I thought all the idiot trolls got banned!!:D

[sanjuro_ronin]

Since it seems to NOT be understood, the OP is:
how would you defend against this?
Hugging sucker punch.

Which means you hands ARE DOWN and the person HAS enter your space.

We can discuss how the other guy SHOULD have his hands up and not let the other guy in, that's fine and common sense, BUT that is not the question.

[Dragonzbane76]

Keeping your hands dowm in any instance a person is threatening u and in your personal space is stupid. Also taking a shot when u could easily move is dumb. Also i dont care what type of "combat ki" yolu think u have a shot to the head is something u cant "absorb"

[dillman]

I thought all the idiot trolls got banned!!:D

then why are you still here?

[Iron_Eagle_76]

then why are you still here?

Because I am uber awesome and good looking, that and I pay Gene under the table!!:p

[sanjuro_ronin]

Keeping your hands dowm in any instance a person is threatening u and in your personal space is stupid. Also taking a shot when u could easily move is dumb. Also i dont care what type of "combat ki" yolu think u have a shot to the head is something u cant "absorb"

This is what we used to call "Oh Sh1t !!" Training.
It is when, for some reason, you find yourself in the worse possible circumstance and have to, somehow, survive.
I found this out early on while bouncing, before you know it your back is against the all and there are too many guys and no fellow bouncer is there to help you.
Or a "dude, what's your problem?" issue becomes a sucker punch issue, or a "got the time?" moment becomes a sucker punch issue.

[ginosifu]

Since it seems to NOT be understood, the OP is:
how would you defend against this?
Hugging sucker punch.

Which means you hands ARE DOWN and the person HAS enter your space.

We can discuss how the other guy SHOULD have his hands up and not let the other guy in, that's fine and common sense, BUT that is not the question.

Ok then lets say that you got caught with your hands down. Is Iron Body / Combat Ki something to have...? yes of course. I train in body conditioning and I think most everyone has some type of body conditioning. Even push ups, pull ups, sit ups etc etc can toughen the body a bit.

I just wanted point out not to forsake common sense just because you can take a hit to the balls.

ginosifu

[sanjuro_ronin]

Ok then lets say that you got caught with your hands down. Is Iron Body / Combat Ki something to have...? yes of course. I train in body conditioning and I think most everyone has some type of body conditioning. Even push ups, pull ups, sit ups etc etc can toughen the body a bit.

I just wanted point out not to forsake common sense just because you can take a hit to the balls.

ginosifu

I agree, anyone that has done full contact sparring in a regular basis has this "iron body" , more so than those that develop it via "static" training only.
Why?
When you spar hard you learn how to react to getting hit when you don't expect it.
You learn/your body develops that ability to go with a strike when it feels it's impact.

[wenshu]

By definition the only good defense against a sucker punch is a strong chin.

Neck bridges, no hand headstands or that contraption that lets you hang plates off your dome piece.

[sanjuro_ronin]

By definition the only good defense against a sucker punch is a strong chin.

Neck bridges, no hand headstands or that contraption that lets you hang plates off your dome piece.

That is part of course, the other is getting hit and knowing how to react when that happens.

[Jimbo]

I agree, anyone that has done full contact sparring in a regular basis has this "iron body" , more so than those that develop it via "static" training only.
Why?
When you spar hard you learn how to react to getting hit when you don't expect it.
You learn/your body develops that ability to go with a strike when it feels it's impact.

I totally agree.

Besides strike sparring, I find the same with veteran Judo players and other grapplers. The impact of bodies hitting the mat, the constant resistance of another's bodyweight, etc., etc.

You could even say that pro-wrestlers, who are constantly taking those big falls onto a giving but still-hard surface, develop a type of iron body.

[sanjuro_ronin]

I totally agree.

Besides strike sparring, I find the same with veteran Judo players and other grapplers. The impact of bodies hitting the mat, the constant resistance of another's bodyweight, etc., etc.

You could even say the same for those pro-wrestlers, who are constantly taking those big falls onto a giving but still-hard surface.

Yep, your body just learns how to adapt and how to best deal with the surprise.

[wenshu]

That is part of course, the other is getting hit and knowing how to react when that happens.

Or how not to react.

"Dude just rolled up and stole the **** out of me for no reason, this looks like a good place to lie down. . ."

Semantic nitpicking but in this case I would consider any reaction as after the fact. There really is no defense other than experience and conditioning. Reaction at that point is an offensive counterattack.

[wenshu]

I find the same with veteran Judo players and other grapplers. The impact of bodies hitting the mat, the constant resistance of another's bodyweight, etc., etc.

You could even say that pro-wrestlers, who are constantly taking those big falls onto a giving but still-hard surface, develop a type of iron body.

I've always felt break fall is an excellent form of body conditioning. When I get nailed to the mat with a hard throw and it stuns the **** out of me I love knowing that next time it won't be nearly as bad. It becomes fun, well, fun once my diaphragm stops convulsing.

[IronFist]

"got the time?" moment becomes a sucker punch issue.

I never even thought of that.

Look down at watch or cell phone, can't see punch coming :eek:

That really happens? :eek: :(

[bawang]

when your hands are down and back there is no way to defend. martial arts and self defence is not magic.

[David Jamieson]

I always thought the "do you like apple pie or cherry pie" followed by *BAM* worked well when executing a sucker punch.

But I also believe that two guys facing off = no such thing as a suckerpunch. That dude was not prepared to defend himself and he failed the first lesson about the best defense.

[dillman]

or stop it BEFORE it hits you

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55ZgzEHYx48&feature=related

[Frost]

I never even thought of that.

Look down at watch or cell phone, can't see punch coming :eek:

That really happens? :eek: :(

when i was taught the fence by one of geoff thompsons guys we were taught to use verbal cues to set up strikes and distract the opponent if we felt an attack was likely...my favourite was "can i buy you a drink"

[sanjuro_ronin]

I never even thought of that.

Look down at watch or cell phone, can't see punch coming :eek:

That really happens? :eek: :(

Very much so.
The bump by one guy followed by the sucker punch by another happens a lot.
Of course many times the sucker punch is really a sucker STAB, so one must be very conscious that ANY punch CAN be a stab.
Years of bouncing have taught me many unpleasant truths about human nature and its very predatory side.