This years production of Chinese Rice Wine has begun!!

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

I am going for 40 to 60 gallons this year.Once I freeze distill it, that should leave me with 4 to 5 gallons of some pretty strong stuff.

Today I boiled rice untill it became complete goo and put it in one of my 5 gallon fermenters along with 8 Plumbs that were liquefied in an old fashioned blender (the kids call them Juicers today).

That should ferment hard for the next couple of days, and then slowly for the next month or so. Then it will be ready for freezing, and lastly the final clearing before being used to make Jow, and a bunch of other medicines.

[Darthlawyer]

For some reason I thought that, from the title of this thread, that you were explaining Foiling Fist's posts about Qi with recent consumption of rice wine.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

I will attempt to do that, when it's done!

[IronFist]

Wait, are you making medicine or drinky wine?

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

Enough for both.

It is a bit late in the season though, and the temps here have cooled down considerably. I will have to find a way to heat the fermenter. It needs to be between 98 and 104 to ferment properly.

If it's hotter than that, the yeast does not perform well. Same if it's colder.

[Lee Chiang Po]

Jow?? That would be a complete waste of good booze. Buy some Cornhuskers Lotion and drink the stuff you make. And quite telling people about it if you live in the US.

[IronFist]

Enough for both.

It is a bit late in the season though, and the temps here have cooled down considerably. I will have to find a way to heat the fermenter. It needs to be between 98 and 104 to ferment properly.

If it's hotter than that, the yeast does not perform well. Same if it's colder.

That's a pretty narrow range of temperatures. How did they manage it back in the day?

[omarthefish]

It still "works" outside of that range, just slower or produces various random byproducts. You get alcohol, just different quality/proof/flavour.

There's a reason why in old Chinese literature you see really strong booze being equated with really good booze. It's not just that everyone was a lush (although that part is probably true too) it's that, back in the days before refrigeration/heating/thermostats./etc. it was actually extremely hard to produce a consitant product and getting a really high alcohol content while still being drinkable was even tougher.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

That's a pretty narrow range of temperatures. How did they manage it back in the day?

They did the primary fermentation in the summer time mostly. The best stuff would have to be made during the hottest part of the summer.

However, it will still ferment at cooler temps too. Some wines are actual done cooler, because they come out sweeter.

Others are warmed by placing a few coals under the fermenting container, and wrapping it in cloth t hold the warmth.

Chinese wedding wines are put in clay pots and buried for years. They ferment really, really slow like that, but after years of sitting, they are supposedly very good.

I am looking for a very fast, and strong ferment because I need it to be strong for medicine making. I need the particular temperature range for that.

Flavor wise, it will give me a stronger, sharper wine, than if I fermented it at cooler temps for longer times.

I have never had any success at all with temps in the 60s, or low 70s though. It seems 75 is the coolest it can be and still ferment at all. Even then, the fermentation does not seem to be complete after 6 months. sometimes it just plain stops. From about 95 to 110, it always works, but is weaker at 110 and 95.

98 to 104 seems to give me perfect results.

[IronFist]

Cool.

I don't know anything about wine making so this is all new to me.

If you need strong alcohol why not just buy some vodka or Everclear or something and use that?

[MightyB]

Why am I having this wierd premonition that we're going to be reading one of those random Gene newspaper quotes about a man being blinded by homemade rice wine? :)

[Mark13]

This I have to try now!

[Mark13]

It still "works" outside of that range, just slower or produces various random byproducts. You get alcohol, just different quality/proof/flavour.

There's a reason why in old Chinese literature you see really strong booze being equated with really good booze. It's not just that everyone was a lush (although that part is probably true too) it's that, back in the days before refrigeration/heating/thermostats./etc. it was actually extremely hard to produce a consitant product and getting a really high alcohol content while still being drinkable was even tougher.

It taste better with age though

[omarthefish]

That's true.

I know personally, the older I get, the better it tastes. :D

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

Cool.

I don't know anything about wine making so this is all new to me.

If you need strong alcohol why not just buy some vodka or Everclear or something and use that?

Because home made rice wine is practically free. 40 gallons of Vodka is a small fortune.

It's costing me $14 for the over sized bag of rice (which will make me like 6 to 8 five gallon batches), and about $4 a bag for the plumbs. I need one plumb per gallon. Each bag has 15 or 16 plumbs in it.

My Glass fermented are 5 gallons each (well, actually 6 if I fill them to the rim)

[IronFist]

Good answer.

[1 Black Mantis]

...However, it will still ferment at cooler temps too. Some wines are actual done cooler, because they come out sweeter....
***
I have never had any success at all with temps in the 60s, or low 70s though. It seems 75 is the coolest it can be and still ferment at all. Even then, the fermentation does not seem to be complete after 6 months. sometimes it just plain stops. From about 95 to 110, it always works, but is weaker at 110 and 95.

98 to 104 seems to give me perfect results.

RD, what yeast are you using?
The ferment may not finish if the yeast don't have enough nutrients to build a healthy population, which might be a factor in ferments taking 6 months. Or you may have more sugar in the must than the yeast will be able to handle (this can stunt the yeasts' growth, strength & ability to finish the ferment).

If you're looking for high alc levels, then there are good yeasts designed for the production of high ethanol ferments (usually for people distilling it into fuel ethanol).
Look for "Turbo Yeast" from a home brewing store if the alcohol is your main concern and a fast, complete ferment is required.

Otherwise, "Pasteur champagne" yeast would be a good choice - it ferments to high levels and is cold tolerant, too. Doesn't impart too much 'extra' or off flavors.
Generally speaking, lower ferment temps equal less floral and off-notes which most any yeast can produce at higher temperatures. You should be able to get a clean finished ferment @ 70°F (20°C) with the right combo of yeast & rice...

And if you're looking for residual sweetness in the finished wine, "Epernay II" (a.k.a., "Cote du Blanc") yeast ferments to a lower level of alc, but leaves some sugar behind usually...you can chill it when you think the sweetness is right and the yeast will go dormant. But any sweetness will concentrate just as the alcohol does when it freezes, so maybe let it get a bit drier than you'd like knowing it will taste sweeter when it is done.

I work as a winemaker here in Sonoma, Cali...and there are lots of choices for you to play with (we're not talking very much $$ either), so I'd suggest trying a few different combos of yeast & ferment temps (since you'll have several batches going to reach 60 gal!) and see which results you like the best.

***
oh, Mighty-B! that old blindness bit is from people drinking methanol, usually found from distilling really over-ripe fruit (or boot-polish if you're in the Russian army) ;)

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

RD, what yeast are you using?
The ferment may not finish if the yeast don't have enough nutrients to build a healthy population, which might be a factor in ferments taking 6 months. Or you may have more sugar in the must than the yeast will be able to handle (this can stunt the yeasts' growth, strength & ability to finish the ferment).

If you're looking for high alc levels, then there are good yeasts designed for the production of high ethanol ferments (usually for people distilling it into fuel ethanol).
Look for "Turbo Yeast" from a home brewing store if the alcohol is your main concern and a fast, complete ferment is required.

Otherwise, "Pasteur champagne" yeast would be a good choice - it ferments to high levels and is cold tolerant, too. Doesn't impart too much 'extra' or off flavors.
Generally speaking, lower ferment temps equal less floral and off-notes which most any yeast can produce at higher temperatures. You should be able to get a clean finished ferment @ 70°F (20°C) with the right combo of yeast & rice...

And if you're looking for residual sweetness in the finished wine, "Epernay II" (a.k.a., "Cote du Blanc") yeast ferments to a lower level of alc, but leaves some sugar behind usually...you can chill it when you think the sweetness is right and the yeast will go dormant. But any sweetness will concentrate just as the alcohol does when it freezes, so maybe let it get a bit drier than you'd like knowing it will taste sweeter when it is done.

I work as a winemaker here in Sonoma, Cali...and there are lots of choices for you to play with (we're not talking very much $$ either), so I'd suggest trying a few different combos of yeast & ferment temps (since you'll have several batches going to reach 60 gal!) and see which results you like the best.

***
oh, Mighty-B! that old blindness bit is from people drinking methanol, usually found from distilling really over-ripe fruit (or boot-polish if you're in the Russian army) ;)

During my original learning process, I used all manners of store bought yeasts. I got the bets results from a Champagne yeast. However, what I found eventually was that the natural air born yeast yields the strongest, longest lasting ferments, with the highest alcohol content. I don't remember the specifics so far as numbers and such, because it was like 8 years ago when I started this.

Today, I ferment the same way Italians cook. I basically wing it. I boil rice into goo (takes 8 to 12 hours). Then I put 5 or 6 plumbs into a blender and liquefy them. That is combined in a glass fermenter that sits uncovered for a day (or till whenever it starts bubbling). Then I cover it with a lid I made that acts as a one way valve to allow pressure to escape, but prevents air from entering.

I generally end up with the fermenter being about 2/3 full, to maybe 3/4 full. The first few days are crazy. It ferments so strong that it almost looks like a rolling boil. The empty portion of the fermenter fills up with a thick foam created by the action.

Then, the fermentation slows down considerably, and the foam diminishes to being about an inch thick. At this point I add more water to the fermenter to top it off. It will ferment gently like this for a week or so.

Eventually, it seems to stop all fermentation action (that I can see). I generally let it sit another couple of weeks, either by design, or lazyness. The wine begins to clear at this point as all the left over rice mash(goo) sinks to the bottom. The clearing can take a month or so.

I never let if finish though, as I start transferring it to empty Ice Mountain jugs that I use to freeze it in in order to separate the alcohol from the water. This helps trap much of the sediment in the ice as well, and speeds the clearing process.

The last phase is where I put it in one gallon apple juice jugs to sit for 6 months. That clears it the rest of the way, and ages out the sour 'Yeast" smell and flavor. Then I make my jows out of that.

I had some stuff that sat for 2 years. It was the best. I drank that batch.

[Lee Chiang Po]

I am an old hand at this stuff. Firstly, most yeast will kill off at about 12.5% of alchohol. But now they sell a yeast that is called by different names, one being Turbo Yeast, and it will produce up to 20% before dying off. It can usually be bought at shops that sell home brewing supplies.
Now, rice and potatoes will usually contain huge amounts of starches, which must first be converted to usable sugars through the use of an enzyme called Analayse or some such. You cook the stuff and as it coold it converts to sugars. Most grains, corn, barly and such, are malted before ferminting. Malting means that they spred it out and wet it down and cover it so that it can sprout. Once it is sprouted it is dried and ground. This malting process will also convert the staches to sugars. The yeast then eats the sugars and passed off alchohol. There are other methods of extraction that might be even more efficient than freeze distillation. Alchohol and water mix very redily. When it freezes the alchohol is usually trapped in tiny pockets all throughout the ice, and on melting it out you regain a great deal of water compared. A sun still works really well and no power is needed to produce it.
A sun still works really well and will produce some pretty pure alchohol. Build you a box about 8 inches deep, maybe 2 foot wide and 2 foot long. Sit it up on something and bore a hole in the middle of the bottom. Take a sheet of black plastic and place it over the box, running a small pvc pipe up through the hole in bottom and through the black plastic. Pull the plastic up about 6 inches on the pipe. You can pour the mash or wash into this plastic lined box and it will not leak or drip out. Now, place a sheet of transparent plastic over that and wrap it tight around the box to seal it somewhat. Then place a ballbearing or nut or something directly over the pipe. As the sun shines through it will heat the contents, the alchohol will evaporate and rise, then condensing on the top clear plastic it will streak down and drip off under the ballbearing and down the pipe. You can place a jug below it so that the bottom end of the pipe will drip it off into the jug.
If you measure your contents by volumn, you can then figure 20% of that will be alchohol, but you will only get probably 18% of it. It is what they call white lightning. Or everclear. Cut it in half with distilled water and it is called Vodka.
Your production is only determined by the size of your sun still and the amount of product you put in it.
If you can get the Blue Ribbon Malt that is sold for beer making in grocery stores, you can add it to your wash, or slurried rice, and it should pretty much help convert the rice starch to sugars. That way you have to add no granulated sugars or syrups.
I might also add that the act of distillation is not legal in the US, unless you obtain a permit to do so for making fuel alchohol. The government requires that alchohol that is produced for other than drinking be denatured. That is fancy for poisoning it with Methanol. It is a tax thing really. And should you intend to sip on some of it, toss the first ounce or so of each batch away. It will contain methanol and aldahydes.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

I am an old hand at this stuff. Firstly, most yeast will kill off at about 12.5% of alchohol. But now they sell a yeast that is called by different names, one being Turbo Yeast, and it will produce up to 20% before dying off. It can usually be bought at shops that sell home brewing supplies.
Now, rice and potatoes will usually contain huge amounts of starches, which must first be converted to usable sugars through the use of an enzyme called Analayse or some such. You cook the stuff and as it coold it converts to sugars. Most grains, corn, barly and such, are malted before ferminting. Malting means that they spred it out and wet it down and cover it so that it can sprout. Once it is sprouted it is dried and ground. This malting process will also convert the staches to sugars. The yeast then eats the sugars and passed off alchohol. There are other methods of extraction that might be even more efficient than freeze distillation. Alchohol and water mix very redily. When it freezes the alchohol is usually trapped in tiny pockets all throughout the ice, and on melting it out you regain a great deal of water compared. A sun still works really well and no power is needed to produce it.
A sun still works really well and will produce some pretty pure alchohol. Build you a box about 8 inches deep, maybe 2 foot wide and 2 foot long. Sit it up on something and bore a hole in the middle of the bottom. Take a sheet of black plastic and place it over the box, running a small pvc pipe up through the hole in bottom and through the black plastic. Pull the plastic up about 6 inches on the pipe. You can pour the mash or wash into this plastic lined box and it will not leak or drip out. Now, place a sheet of transparent plastic over that and wrap it tight around the box to seal it somewhat. Then place a ballbearing or nut or something directly over the pipe. As the sun shines through it will heat the contents, the alchohol will evaporate and rise, then condensing on the top clear plastic it will streak down and drip off under the ballbearing and down the pipe. You can place a jug below it so that the bottom end of the pipe will drip it off into the jug.
If you measure your contents by volumn, you can then figure 20% of that will be alchohol, but you will only get probably 18% of it. It is what they call white lightning. Or everclear. Cut it in half with distilled water and it is called Vodka.
Your production is only determined by the size of your sun still and the amount of product you put in it.
If you can get the Blue Ribbon Malt that is sold for beer making in grocery stores, you can add it to your wash, or slurried rice, and it should pretty much help convert the rice starch to sugars. That way you have to add no granulated sugars or syrups.
I might also add that the act of distillation is not legal in the US, unless you obtain a permit to do so for making fuel alchohol. The government requires that alchohol that is produced for other than drinking be denatured. That is fancy for poisoning it with Methanol. It is a tax thing really. And should you intend to sip on some of it, toss the first ounce or so of each batch away. It will contain methanol and aldahydes.

The solar still is an interesting idea. I was not aware they could be used for alcohol. I have seen some for purifying water though. Seeing that makes me think that a solar still may evaporate too much water, and thus produce a weak final product. Although, for making Jow 50% water is ideal anyway.

[1 Black Mantis]

During my original learning process, I used all manners of store bought yeasts. I got the bets results from a Champagne yeast. However, what I found eventually was that the natural air born yeast yields the strongest, longest lasting ferments, with the highest alcohol content. I don't remember the specifics so far as numbers and such, because it was like 8 years ago when I started this.

Today, I ferment the same way Italians cook. I basically wing it. ...

What good fortune - you've got a strong 'natural yeast' in your area which produces good ferments & good flavors. I know some people who'd be pretty jealous for that. Cool that you're comfortable enough so that you can wing it & not over-analyze!

I've seen a natural yeast go to work (in a few Zinfandel vineyards) and it cranked out a whopping 18.5% alcohol, which was amazingly good (although too alcoholic for a table wine made from grapes...it was really out of balance & hot).

Lee Chiang Po, it sounds like you've got this whole thing nailed down...
The malt used to convert the rice starches is a good idea, though it may change the color and flavor slightly, it should provide a must easier for the yeast to work on & complete.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

What good fortune - you've got a strong 'natural yeast' in your area which produces good ferments & good flavors. I know some people who'd be pretty jealous for that. Cool that you're comfortable enough so that you can wing it & not over-analyze!

I've seen a natural yeast go to work (in a few Zinfandel vineyards) and it cranked out a whopping 18.5% alcohol, which was amazingly good (although too alcoholic for a table wine made from grapes...it was really out of balance & hot).

Lee Chiang Po, it sounds like you've got this whole thing nailed down...
The malt used to convert the rice starches is a good idea, though it may change the color and flavor slightly, it should provide a must easier for the yeast to work on & complete.

Aside from Malt, and boiling the rice untill it is just goo, how many other ways are there to convert the starches to sugar?

[1 Black Mantis]

Aside from Malt, and boiling the rice untill it is just goo, how many other ways are there to convert the starches to sugar?

There are a number of enzyme preparations on the market to do that, but they are expensive - and higher cost is what you're trying to avoid, so that doesn't make sense.
Considering what you're making, perhaps some koji (Aspergillus oryzae, or "qū meí jūn" I think it is in Chinese?) would be a better fit.

Maybe your natural fement already has some of this in it.... :)

[Mark13]

Hot wine would be good, especially drunk training :) and im not saying it because of Jackie Chan. Just make it more enjoyable.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

I keep it hot only during the initial ferment. After that, i have found clearing it works better at cooler temps.

[EDIT 9-23-2011]
Muahahahaha!!

My wine is now past the initial raging fermentation stage, and has settled into a nice steady simmer. This means there is enough alcohol in it to slow down the yeast. However, the culture now has a massive population, so I am seeing a strong steady sea of smaller CO2 bubbles through out the entire container.

The first phase lasted a bit longer than usual, so I think this will be a particularly strong batch.

[Lee Chiang Po]

Aside from Malt, and boiling the rice untill it is just goo, how many other ways are there to convert the starches to sugar?

You can purchase the amylase sp? enzyme at a site called Still Drinking, and most brew shops will sell it for that express purpose. You just brew the rice slurry with the enzyme and bingo, it turns the starches to sugars. The best method for making alchohol is to use cane sugar, corn syrup, Molasas, and of course most super sweet fruits. Most all whisky and rum, brandies and such that are distilled will retain some of the nasties that are created during brewing. These are the things that give you the hangover. The purer the distillate, the fewer or less by volumn of these impurities. good vodka and cut everclear will not give you a hangover unless you really do it up big. The worst hangovers come from drinking low proof brandies. They are loaded with aldihydes and things that are slightly poison.

[Lee Chiang Po]

The solar still is an interesting idea. I was not aware they could be used for alcohol. I have seen some for purifying water though. Seeing that makes me think that a solar still may evaporate too much water, and thus produce a weak final product. Although, for making Jow 50% water is ideal anyway.

Water can be distilled quite easily, but it would require longer to do it. Water boils at 212 degrees at sea level, but alchohol will boil at far less temp. Mix them and it goes in between somewhere. At about 20% it will boil at around 172 degrees. This is important when using a good metal still, but not so much with the solar job. The alchohol will begin to evaporate quickly, and it will cool the wash some as it does so, but will continue to evaporate at a fairly fast pace. It slows considerably as the alchohol depletes. It is quite impossible to remove all the water from the distillant. The closest you can get is about 97.5 percent, or about 195 proof. The solar still will probably produce at around 75%, or 150 proof. If you are not satisfied with the purity, you can always run it through again, and this time it will be even purer. You can not drink this, and it would not be economical to use at that proof, so cutting it with distilled water might will make it whatever proof you want, depending on the amount of water you add. It is best to make it as pure as you can and then mix with distilled water so that the end product will have fewer and less of the nasties.
The good thing about the solar still is that it is easy to make, works really well even if slightly slower, produces a pretty good distillate, and most people would not have a clue of what they were looking at if they did find it.
As for legalities, I don't see where it should not be legalized to distill for your own purposes. We are allowed 250 gallons per year per person in the household of either wine or beer or both, so seperating the alchohol from wine or beer that is substandard in taste should be an option. Maybe not at the tune of 250 gallons per year per person in the household, but at least a few gallons now and then. That would make between 500 and 600 gallons of drinking alchohol.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

Water can be distilled quite easily, but it would require longer to do it. Water boils at 212 degrees at sea level, but alchohol will boil at far less temp. Mix them and it goes in between somewhere. At about 20% it will boil at around 172 degrees. This is important when using a good metal still, but not so much with the solar job. The alchohol will begin to evaporate quickly, and it will cool the wash some as it does so, but will continue to evaporate at a fairly fast pace. It slows considerably as the alchohol depletes. It is quite impossible to remove all the water from the distillant. The closest you can get is about 97.5 percent, or about 195 proof. The solar still will probably produce at around 75%, or 150 proof. If you are not satisfied with the purity, you can always run it through again, and this time it will be even purer. You can not drink this, and it would not be economical to use at that proof, so cutting it with distilled water might will make it whatever proof you want, depending on the amount of water you add. It is best to make it as pure as you can and then mix with distilled water so that the end product will have fewer and less of the nasties.
The good thing about the solar still is that it is easy to make, works really well even if slightly slower, produces a pretty good distillate, and most people would not have a clue of what they were looking at if they did find it.
As for legalities, I don't see where it should not be legalized to distill for your own purposes. We are allowed 250 gallons per year per person in the household of either wine or beer or both, so seperating the alchohol from wine or beer that is substandard in taste should be an option. Maybe not at the tune of 250 gallons per year per person in the household, but at least a few gallons now and then. That would make between 500 and 600 gallons of drinking alchohol.

Very interesting. I see the making of a solar still in my future.

As for the nasties, if you toss out the first 10% of your distillation, that will cover it because they distill out first.

[Lee Chiang Po]

Very interesting. I see the making of a solar still in my future.

As for the nasties, if you toss out the first 10% of your distillation, that will cover it because they distill out first.

True, but I would toss a bit less. Beers, wines, and meads create and hold some rather nasty stuff, but we drink it all the time without harm. The problem with these heads and tails off the distilled stuff is that it is concentrated. Some of the more volitile alchohols and aldahydes evaporate first, and then there are the ones that require more heat. When the alchohol level gets low then the wash heats up and out comes the worst part.
In the military myself and a bunch of recruits were in the field for more than a month. We found a bunch of pear trees that were completely loaded down. The pairs were big and ripe and really sweet. We crushed and squeezed the juices and set it to fermenting. Got the yeast from the mess tent. It tasted nasty and bitter, so we dug a hole, set a big pan of the wine down in the hole and placed a big pickle jar under the clear plastic and laid a big rock over it. We only made about a quart of alchohol in a full day, so next day we lined the hole with black plastic bags. We doubled production and we were distilling half a gallon every day. We had trouble keeping up with the still. We brewed a 55 gallon drum of wine, cooked out about 9 gallons of strong alchohol, cut it with bottled water and ended up with close to 19 gallons of drinking. We done that with a solar still.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

Well, the first batch is settling now. The clear stuff on top warms my tummy!

However, the second batch seems to have failed miserably. I am not sure what went wrong. It started fermenting, but not really strong. The rice liquifiedy over night, which is odd. It normally takes a few days, and a lot of fermentation to do that.

When I sampled the liquid, it was yeasty tasting water. There's no alcohol in it that I can taste.

I may have to throw this batch out and start over.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

True, but I would toss a bit less. Beers, wines, and meads create and hold some rather nasty stuff, but we drink it all the time without harm. The problem with these heads and tails off the distilled stuff is that it is concentrated. Some of the more volitile alchohols and aldahydes evaporate first, and then there are the ones that require more heat. When the alchohol level gets low then the wash heats up and out comes the worst part.
In the military myself and a bunch of recruits were in the field for more than a month. We found a bunch of pear trees that were completely loaded down. The pairs were big and ripe and really sweet. We crushed and squeezed the juices and set it to fermenting. Got the yeast from the mess tent. It tasted nasty and bitter, so we dug a hole, set a big pan of the wine down in the hole and placed a big pickle jar under the clear plastic and laid a big rock over it. We only made about a quart of alchohol in a full day, so next day we lined the hole with black plastic bags. We doubled production and we were distilling half a gallon every day. We had trouble keeping up with the still. We brewed a 55 gallon drum of wine, cooked out about 9 gallons of strong alchohol, cut it with bottled water and ended up with close to 19 gallons of drinking. We done that with a solar still.

This gives me an idea to get some clear plastic sheet that can be manipulated with a heat gun.

I have an idea to make a still that works over a camp fire as well.

[Lee Chiang Po]

This gives me an idea to get some clear plastic sheet that can be manipulated with a heat gun.

I have an idea to make a still that works over a camp fire as well.

If it can be manipulated with a heat gun it might also be manipulated by the camp fire heat. I know what you are talking about though. I know of people distilling small amounts of wash in a large pot in the kitchen. they place something in the put to sit a small container on, then pour in some wash and seal the lid down on it. The problem with this method is that you have to be careful or you will blow the lid off. An inclosed system can build up pressure. The pipe drain of the sun still will not allow any pressure to build as it is an open system.

[RD'S Alias - 1A]

Well, there was no saving that last batch. i tossed it and started over. I am transferring my next batch of Rice mash to the fermentrer now. Hopefully this batch will be as good as the first one....because the second one just suxored.