A clip

[k gledhill]

the sticky hand following hands thing is really going too far, star trek meets disco. When is martial and art just art and no martial ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3h5_UMdy3r4&feature=related

[R]

1st her hair came untied.... was waiting to see what else would be removed!!

Funny this looks so not ''martial'' :' S

Oh what is it with WC and rooftops??

FWIW

R

[trubblman]

I dont think thats VT . It looks like some sort of push hands exercise. There are similarities with tai chi but I dont think its a Tai chi push hands. Push hands are for sensitivity training, not for fighting per se. If thats supposed be VT maybe its a non Ip Man line. In addition there bodies look disjointed. There s no connection of the hands and legs through the body, which is a characteristic of most Asian martial arts.

[trubblman]

I just looked at some of the other videos and I call take back. I guess this guy is claiming Leung Ting lineage. Thats some weird looking chi sao then. Also Captain Kirk is apparently wanting the uniforms back that were stolen from the crew of the Enterprise.

[Xiao3 Meng4]

That's Keith Kernspecht's group.

[duende]

That's Keith Kernspecht's group.

Most certainly. The romulan crew cut and drunken patty-cake body mechanics are unmistakeable!

The hip thrusting is particularly disturbing I must say

[k gledhill]

Most certainly. The romulan crew cut and drunken patty-cake body mechanics are unmistakeable!

The hip thrusting is particularly disturbing I must say

At several points each is waving their arms in the air without touching either :confused:
maybe the cobra thing is to hypnotize you with snakey hands then induce you into a trance like dance , whereby your filmed doing star trek disco dancing and blackmailed forever after ? okay maybe not :D

[wingchunIan]

To be fair if she stood in front of me doing those kind of hip movements I most certainly wouldn't be trying to hit her :) My missus might do though:p

[trubblman]

It seems to me not only is this not VT, it probably is not good martial arts mechanics. Asian martial arts have a characteristic of coordinating the hands and legs using the body as a connector. These 2 practitioners looked irritatingly disjointed in their movements. And I am wondering why they do chi sao like that since Keith Kernchecht is from Leung Ting tree. In LT's videos he clearly does not show this form of chi sao.

[YouKnowWho]

In this clip, what will happen if your opponet grabs on your wrist or elbow joint?

You may not like to grab on your opponent's wrist or elbow joint (offense), but you can't prevent your opponent from doing that to you (defense). Is that part of training missing (both offense and defense)?

The wrist and elbow grabbing (how to grab, and how to break grip) are not trained enough in Taiji push hand. It's also not trained enough in WC sticky hand either.

Why?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3h5_UMdy3r4&feature=related

[k gledhill]

It gets funnier and worrying ....see second :34 exactly and pause, yeah 4 of them all doing a group version :confused:

Clip of weird chi-sao (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sl_1R24hQ2Y&feature=related)

[Xiao3 Meng4]

It gets funnier and worrying ....see second :34 exactly and pause, yeah 4 of them all doing a group version :confused:

Clip of weird chi-sao (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sl_1R24hQ2Y&feature=related)

They learned that directly from their Masta!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6O8T4RLZG8 :eek: :D

Re the first clip again: The slightest bit of downward pressure would ruin them.

[k gledhill]

They learned that directly from their Masta!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6O8T4RLZG8 :eek: :D

Re the first clip again: The slightest bit of downward pressure would ruin them.


In the immortal words of J McEnroe "You Cannot Be Serious ! ",

Star Trekies versus a Klingon

[grasshopper 2.0]

Although I can't say I do this, I can understand the drill under some assumptions:
That it is a drill and the purpose is simply to get the entire body moving using fairly exaggerated movements to get the knees, hips, etc moving. Its about waking up those joints in an extreme fashion using sticking hands as the basis of the drill. I would hope its not about technical or standard chi sao training.

It should also help the student learn to move and use the entire body for every move (although subtl) instead of typical wing chun stiff and flailing chain punches.

There seems to be a trend to train entire body movement into wt....it looks very weird but just as others judge wc and think regular chi sao is "lame" I think we should see what we can take from this and not judge right away.

[k gledhill]

Although I can't say I do this, I can understand the drill under some assumptions:
That it is a drill and the purpose is simply to get the entire body moving using fairly exaggerated movements to get the knees, hips, etc moving. Its about waking up those joints in an extreme fashion using sticking hands as the basis of the drill. I would hope its not about technical or standard chi sao training.

It should also help the student learn to move and use the entire body for every move (although subtl) instead of typical wing chun stiff and flailing chain punches.

There seems to be a trend to train entire body movement into wt....it looks very weird but just as others judge wc and think regular chi sao is "lame" I think we should see what we can take from this and not judge right away.



Its not ving tsun...whatever it is.

[jesper]

hmm kernspreich has come along way since I last saw him many years ago, guess thats one of the reasons the danish branch split from EWTO

[k gledhill]

hmm kernspreich has come along way since I last saw him many years ago, guess thats one of the reasons the danish branch split from EWTO

More from the same....


URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=DbHeqXvFSO8" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=DbHeqXvFSO8)

[Lee Chiang Po]

I have to assume that this is just another form of chi sao. It is actually an exagerated method of maintaining contact with someone in a close encounter. It is usually for the benefit of the woman really, as most men will attempt to grab and control them when they decide to manhandle them. The hand movements if you look closely do not seem to represent any attack or defense techniques, but it is actually a way of trying to control another persons hands and arms. It is an ongoing process and is practiced just like chi sao. In a confrontation it might not last for a split second, but can prevent a woman or smaller person from being grabbed and controlled that way. Actually, there are several things that you can develop with this practice, like moving the body in the process of avoiding an attacker. I know it is not normally seen in WC. I don't know about VT. I didn't realize the full potential of such until I would practice with my 2 older sisters. I could spend 10 minutes trying to take control and never actually put a hand on either one. I don't think it is something that most men would learn or practice. It is more of a passive defense.

[PalmStriker]

That's an old Whang Chung video of rooftop dancing from the 80's , it replaced Disco pretty much. Then there was "Dirty Dancing" in '89 and that fazed out when Hip-Hop started up. Now Dancing with the Stars is tak'in up some of Hip-Hop's decline in popularity. :D

[PalmStriker]

It gets funnier and worrying ....see second :34 exactly and pause, yeah 4 of them all doing a group version :confused:

Clip of weird chi-sao (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sl_1R24hQ2Y&feature=related)
That's the Plum flower Fairy Set. I've seen that before too.

[k gledhill]

I have to assume that this is just another form of chi sao. It is actually an exagerated method of maintaining contact with someone in a close encounter. It is usually for the benefit of the woman really, as most men will attempt to grab and control them when they decide to manhandle them. The hand movements if you look closely do not seem to represent any attack or defense techniques, but it is actually a way of trying to control another persons hands and arms. It is an ongoing process and is practiced just like chi sao. In a confrontation it might not last for a split second, but can prevent a woman or smaller person from being grabbed and controlled that way. Actually, there are several things that you can develop with this practice, like moving the body in the process of avoiding an attacker. I know it is not normally seen in WC. I don't know about VT. I didn't realize the full potential of such until I would practice with my 2 older sisters. I could spend 10 minutes trying to take control and never actually put a hand on either one. I don't think it is something that most men would learn or practice. It is more of a passive defense.


I think humans came up with tickling and counters to tickling way before this...;)

[GlennR]

It gets funnier and worrying ....see second :34 exactly and pause, yeah 4 of them all doing a group version :confused:

Clip of weird chi-sao (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sl_1R24hQ2Y&feature=related)

Seriously... thats really disturbing

[GlennR]

They learned that directly from their Masta!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6O8T4RLZG8 :eek: :D

Re the first clip again: The slightest bit of downward pressure would ruin them.

And thats even weirder!!!!

[anerlich]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6O8T4RLZG8

And thats even weirder!!!!

That looked like the Three Stooges with the yellow Wiggle thrown in.

In the words of John McEnroe, "YOU CANNOT BE SERIOUS!!!"

[k gledhill]

That looked like the Three Stooges with the yellow Wiggle thrown in.

In the words of John McEnroe, "YOU CANNOT BE SERIOUS!!!"

The really amusing part is that they are trying to improve on it...:D

[Eric_H]

Wow. This has to be a joke. Please God let it be a joke.

[couch]

The really amusing part is that they are trying to improve on it...:D

Plus the 'high 5' at the end like, "We did it! Oh yah!!!"

[LoneTiger108]

Its not ving tsun...whatever it is.

It's not your Ving Tsun Kev!

But with all respect to what everyone has said here, this type of Yong Chun is more popular in the mainland and also has hints of Shaolin Weng Chun too and I (or anyone else for that matter) can't really say if that's Wing Chun or not imho.

What we can definitely say is that it isn't how xxx taught me ;)

But for some reason the same guys get on the bandwagon of insults :o CLASSIC! :D

[LoneTiger108]

Less use of the spiral energy you can see in the previous clips, but again a different family of Wing Chun that has their own specialities imho

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvA_l08zJVw

Very similar in power generation to this Saam Bai Fut form from Sifu Hoffman

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_sau5pe6HY&feature=related

But of course, it CAN'T be Wing Chun can it??! Hmmm

[desertwingchun2]

Um..... Ya .......... WTF???

[k gledhill]

It's not your Ving Tsun Kev!

But with all respect to what everyone has said here, this type of Yong Chun is more popular in the mainland and also has hints of Shaolin Weng Chun too and I (or anyone else for that matter) can't really say if that's Wing Chun or not imho.

What we can definitely say is that it isn't how xxx taught me ;)

But for some reason the same guys get on the bandwagon of insults :o CLASSIC! :D


No it isnt, but if we see something that looks like a duck, walks like a duck, sounds like duck, we can all safley assume it is a duck.

[trubblman]

It's not your Ving Tsun Kev!
But with all respect to what everyone has said here, this type of Yong Chun is more popular in the mainland and also has hints of Shaolin Weng Chun too and I (or anyone else for that matter) can't really say if that's Wing Chun or not imho.
But for some reason the same guys get on the bandwagon of insults :o CLASSIC! :D

The problem with what you are saying LoneTiger108 is that the video purports to show chi sao from someone who should be clearly in Yip Man lineage. From what I can tell this guy, Sifu such and such, comes from Kernspect, who comes from Leung Ting, who is part of Yip Man lineage. So one the issues I am sure with this chi sao practice, is clearly Leung Ting does not perform chi sao in this fashion, as can be seen from Ting's videos.

[Eric_H]

Dear Moderation team:

Though my earlier comment represented a disbelief in the content of the video (honestly can't believe what I'm seeing) I don't feel they were in any way out of line for the TOS for the forum. Please contact me via PM and let me know why it was removed.

Thanks,

[Sihing73]

Dear Moderation team:

Though my earlier comment represented a disbelief in the content of the video (honestly can't believe what I'm seeing) I don't feel they were in any way out of line for the TOS for the forum. Please contact me via PM and let me know why it was removed.

Thanks,

AH I still see it so I am not sure what post you are referring too.....:confused:

I assume this is what you are referring to, but feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.


Wow. This has to be a joke. Please God let it be a joke.

[trubblman]

Awkward...

[LoneTiger108]

The problem with what you are saying LoneTiger108 is that the video purports to show chi sao from someone who should be clearly in Yip Man lineage. From what I can tell this guy, Sifu such and such, comes from Kernspect, who comes from Leung Ting, who is part of Yip Man lineage. So one the issues I am sure with this chi sao practice, is clearly Leung Ting does not perform chi sao in this fashion, as can be seen from Ting's videos.

Isn't every trained Sifu responsible for their own development??

So the fact that the Sifu in the clip learnt from the Leung Ting way of thinking doesn't mean that he is representing that organization. The EWT group are/were massive in Europe, having thousands of students pass through them (possibly millions!) Although I have also seen Kernspect actually practise similar drills, that may just be a development of his own.

Fact is, as I said, I still feel it's wrong to throw insults at something you don't understand just because it doesn't fit the mould you are used to. Ip Man definitely learnt and had access to various teachings in his life and for us all to try to fit ourselves into his image of the system is just ridiculous.

We are meant to grow throughout our martial lives, and the blueprint for Wing Chun may have been in Ip Mans hands but I really do not think he taught any individual the whole. It's impossible imho, and better to teach various students specialities that suit their personality.

The funny thing is, and maybe he even had this in mind, if the brotherhood/family competes against each other and argues over this and that then none of us will ever learn or appreciate the vast knowledge that is within Wing Chun! That can always remain hidden in the families and people Ip Man himself trusted;)

[GlennR]

Isn't every trained Sifu responsible for their own development??

Actually, i think every individual is responsible for their development... sifu or not.


So the fact that the Sifu in the clip learnt from the Leung Ting way of thinking doesn't mean that he is representing that organization. The EWT group are/were massive in Europe, having thousands of students pass through them (possibly millions!) Although I have also seen Kernspect actually practise similar drills, that may just be a development of his own.

Sure, but how does he justify his change in direction?
Results or vivivd imagination?


Fact is, as I said, I still feel it's wrong to throw insults at something you don't understand just because it doesn't fit the mould you are used to. Ip Man definitely learnt and had access to various teachings in his life and for us all to try to fit ourselves into his image of the system is just ridiculous.

Yes, but how far removed from the original (in your case IM) does it need to be before it ceases to be what it originally was?


We are meant to grow throughout our martial lives, and the blueprint for Wing Chun may have been in Ip Mans hands but I really do not think he taught any individual the whole. It's impossible imho, and better to teach various students specialities that suit their personality.

No, he never had "the blueprint" as you'd suggest..... other non-IM WC folks now and then would argue that now and then


The funny thing is, and maybe he even had this in mind, if the brotherhood/family competes against each other and argues over this and that then none of us will ever learn or appreciate the vast knowledge that is within Wing Chun! That can always remain hidden in the families and people Ip Man himself trusted]

Life isnt a Kung Fu Film Spencer.... its just a bunch of guys learning to fight

[anerlich]

Fact is, as I said, I still feel it's wrong to throw insults at something you don't understand just because it doesn't fit the mould you are used to.

Look, the clip with the four guys in a circle doing group chi sao doesn't make sense. Period. I suspect it was actually done as a joke.

You think it's wrong to criticize? So what? I disagree. I think you need to develop your critical facilities more. Your opinions of my or anyone else's forum behaviour are of no consequence or interest.


The funny thing is, and maybe he even had this in mind, if the brotherhood/family competes against each other and argues over this and that then none of us will ever learn or appreciate the vast knowledge that is within Wing Chun! That can always remain hidden in the families and people Ip Man himself trusted]

Will you stop with this brotherhood/family sh*t already? YM and his direct students screwed up. Whether that was because YM was too ill, made mistakes or just didn't care, WC is fractured and Humpty Dumpty ain't getting put back together again. Deal with it. I've got some great training buds, but to call us a family insults both them and families everywhere.

What you seem to want WC to be is frankly of little interest to me.

[GlennR]

Deleting my post.

Pointless in discussing the bias and censorship on this forum


So long folks. Just not worth it participating here anymore

Yep, its all a bit too pleasant now isnt it

[Eric_H]

AH I still see it so I am not sure what post you are referring too.....:confused:

I assume this is what you are referring to, but feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Crazy, I logged in this morning and like half of these posts were gone. I thought maybe the thread had gotten out of hand and had to be cleaned up - my bad.

[Graham H]

Life isnt a Kung Fu Film Spencer.... its just a bunch of guys learning to fight

Hey! Stop trying to burst Spencers little fantasy bubble.

Clowns don't only reside in circus'

GH

[Graham H]

Look, the clip with the four guys in a circle doing group chi sao doesn't make sense. Period. I suspect it was actually done as a joke.

You think it's wrong to criticize? So what? I disagree. I think you need to develop your critical facilities more. Your opinions of my or anyone else's forum behaviour are of no consequence or interest.



Will you stop with this brotherhood/family sh*t already? YM and his direct students screwed up. Whether that was because YM was too ill, made mistakes or just didn't care, WC is fractured and Humpty Dumpty ain't getting put back together again. Deal with it. I've got some great training buds, but to call us a family insults both them and families everywhere.

What you seem to want WC to be is frankly of little interest to me.

What he said! ;)

G

[LoneTiger108]

Sure, but how does he justify his change in direction?
Results or vivivd imagination?

How about mailing him on his Youtube page and asking him yourself?


Yes, but how far removed from the original (in your case IM) does it need to be before it ceases to be what it originally was?

Bit of a strange one :confused:

What is original Wing Chun to you?


No, he never had "the blueprint" as you'd suggest..... other non-IM WC folks now and then would argue that now and then

So on admitting this is what you think, then WSL didn't have anything close to the blueprint either, let alone PB, so if most of the lame attacks are coming from this WSLPB camp how can you explain that?


Life isnt a Kung Fu Film Spencer.... its just a bunch of guys learning to fight

Well, I agree with you on this one! Life is much better than any of the kung fu films I have seen. But this bunch of guys thing?? I wouldn't know mate. I learnt with guys and girls ;)

[LoneTiger108]

Look, the clip with the four guys in a circle doing group chi sao doesn't make sense. Period. I suspect it was actually done as a joke.

To you it doesn't because you have no time for family or let me say 'team building' in your approach to kung fu training. And no understanding of what it is developing because you have never been taught anything like that, right?

Well, I can bet he was taught it for reasons he himself thinks are enough.


You think it's wrong to criticize? So what? I disagree.

No I don't. I think it's wrong to just be plain out harsh for no reason other than self indulgence. Take a look at whats left of this thread and others and you will see what I mean.



Will you stop with this brotherhood/family sh*t already?

Why? What's the matter with it exactly? Have you got your own reasons to not want to be as close to your training partners as you are to a brother or sister? Do you not feel as close to these guys after not seeing them for a while, like you would do with your own brother?


YM and his direct students screwed up.

Absolute cr4p!

Ip Mans students messed it all up, if you want to play a blaming game. And do you know why? Because they all competed with eachother, rubbished eachothers ideas just to play the hard men or to cover up their lack of understanding.

Some tried their hardest to keep the family together, but most, like you, couldn't care less for family and so we are where we are today. Deal with that.


What you seem to want WC to be is frankly of little interest to me.

Listen, it's never been about what I want, it's simply what is and always has been. A family system. And I guess you have no interest in these terms because you may have not experienced that side to the chinese culture? Within Wing Chun even?

I have and my memories are very fond ones thanks. And from all the people I have met within my own lineage, and some from others here in the UK, we all seem to agree.

[Graham H]

So on admitting this is what you think, then WSL didn't have anything close to the blueprint either, let alone PB, so if most of the lame attacks are coming from this WSLPB camp how can you explain that?


There is no blueprint Spencer ffs! What WSL had was contact. Not many people had that contact. The reasons for that could be many but what is the point in speculating? Both those guys are no longer with us!

What one needs to posses in learning Ving Tsun properly is a certain ability to understand. Some people get it and some people don't. That's life. It happens in all aspects of life. If we were all the same and had the same abilties then we would all be rocket sctientists and be colonising space perhaps. Human nature varies massively.

IMO WSL was a man who was clever, hard working and got his hands dirty proving Ving Tsun. He proved it to himself obviously, but also for a certain period in time Yip Man himself. You must have heard the stories of the discussions that went on between WSL and Yip Man during these "Beimo" days. There were probably many factors that contributed to the passing of knowledge between Yip Man and WSL. If these qualities are not present then the information will be flawed. I personally wasnt there but its common sense because it happens everyday in school between teacher and student. We are not all grade A, physically gifted students so the same must apply to Ving Tsun.

The reason why I have hang ups about your ideas is because they make no sense. They contradict many core principles of Ving Tsun. Many principles that the whole system is based on. This is what I would tell you if you were my student so why should telling you that on the internet be any different?

Nobody on this forum can give 100% accurate information about the history of Ving Tsun even up to Yip Man's passing!

It is common knowledge (for those that know) that Ving Tsun is probably the most misinterpreted and misunderstood MA on the planet. There is no point in blaming anybody personally. We can blame the human factor everytime.

Ving Tsun in essesnce is a system of unarmed combat based on sound scientific concepts and principles. Simpleness is its purpose and its goal. No flashy hong kong fooey BS just hardwork achieiving a very effective form of real world fighting. No competitions, no spear and flag waving, no manipulation of chi power or meditation....just plain old conditioning ones body and mind for boxing somebodies ears in in the most simple, efficient and direct manner.

Does your system think that way? My teacher does, his teacher did and surely Yip Man must have else somebody has totally reinvented the wheel. I dont beleive that for one minute!!!

If you can't see that you live in kung fu la la land then no forum, man or beast will change your thinking. That is very plain to see. Whilst we may all disagree on here to a ceratin extent I have yet to see anybody remotely agree with anything you write. Your reason for that is because you think that Lee Shing had this special relationship and you have close family secrets. You are no closer to Yip Man than you are my brother. Maybe I'm the same. Who knows and who f'ing cares?

G

[anerlich]

And I guess you have no interest in these terms because you may have not experienced that side to the chinese culture?

I have experienced that side of "Chinese culture", though IMO it's not restricted to the Chinese or anything else.

I have an interest in it, and I guess the "terms" (WTF?) ... an interest in seeing it wither and die because in my experience it is unhealthy and stunts growth.

You can keep your other naive "insights" into my character and motivations. I have been teaching MA and developing students for a lot longer than you. IMO the model of "team building" you follow is toxic and counterproductive to growth and I ain't going near it. I have too much respect for students intelligence to lay that load of barf on them.

Kung Fu Family ... I always get reminded of "Manson family".

[GlennR]

How about mailing him on his Youtube page and asking him yourself?

Thanks for your insightful response there.




Bit of a strange one :confused:

What is original Wing Chun to you?


Try answering my question before responding with one of your own.



So on admitting this is what you think, then WSL didn't have anything close to the blueprint either, let alone PB, so if most of the lame attacks are coming from this WSLPB camp how can you explain that?

Where the hell did the PB guys come into this??? I never even mentioned them.
You said IM had the "blueprint", i said theres plenty of people that would disagree... mainland styles come to mind
FWIW no one has the "blueprint", thats a ridicolous analagy, and shows how far removed from realistic combat you are.




Well, I agree with you on this one! Life is much better than any of the kung fu films I have seen. But this bunch of guys thing?? I wouldn't know mate. I learnt with guys and girls ;)

Yep, bunch of guys, males, non-females... comprehend?
If that seems odd name me one of IM's top female students??

[Sihing73]

Hello,

I believe that Randy Williams also does multiple person Chi Sau. I believe he does it with three people doing it. While it does not look like the clip, it does kind of support the idea of variations across lineage lines for different methods of training Chi Sau.

Just a thought. ;)

[k gledhill]

Hello,

I believe that Randy Williams also does multiple person Chi Sau. I believe he does it with three people doing it. While it does not look like the clip, it does kind of support the idea of variations across lineage lines for different methods of training Chi Sau.

Just a thought. ;)


I met Randy " cant fight my way out of a paperbag " Williams, in London a few years back, nice guy, but just because he does it dont make it right ;)

I would venture that the reason for variations is simply guys copying by mimicking others, copying actions without any coaching or HANDS ON teaching directly from esoteric circles , seeing a tan and a bong etc...then rolling. Or trying to replicate it as 'pushing hands' from Tai Chi perhaps...
I can say that nobody would accidentally just be doing it correctly ...the urge to feel and follow arms is such a natural thing we all do , we dont need coaching to feel another arm, we need coaching to NOT feel it and follow it . Lat sao chet chun and da sao jik siu sao are not something you just do ....or reinvent with weird feeling drills

[bennyvt]

We used to do this thing more of a laugh but it did teach controlinh one person while being able to hit others. We called it wall sao, six people chisao next to each other three of them with backs against the wall. You could only hit the people next to you if you positioned your gut so he couldn't hit you. Normally finished with us just punching each other. Not a normal part of training but was fun to do

[k gledhill]

We used to do this thing more of a laugh but it did teach controlinh one person while being able to hit others. We called it wall sao, six people chisao next to each other three of them with backs against the wall. You could only hit the people next to you if you positioned your gut so he couldn't hit you. Normally finished with us just punching each other. Not a normal part of training but was fun to do

I like that it ended by hitting and not hypnotic arm waving.

[LoneTiger108]

Using a quote from your post G because I just can't be bothered to attempt conversation with you these days, I like your attitude after all that twaddle you wrote! :D


Who knows and who f'ing cares?

Speaks volumes.

[Graham H]

Using a quote from your post G because I just can't be bothered to attempt conversation with you these days, I like your attitude after all that twaddle you wrote! :D



Speaks volumes.

The fact that you interpreted that as twaddle is a good sign. It means that I'm not in your fantasy fu land.



G

[Hendrik]

the sticky hand following hands thing is really going too far, star trek meets disco. When is martial and art just art and no martial ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3h5_UMdy3r4&feature=related

who would like to analyze the clip in a technical way?

[Wu Wei Wu]

Hendrik,

'Technically' by which standard; religious, spiritual, internal?

Technically it don't look like any line of Wing Chun that I am familiar with.

Technically, it doesn't fit into the paradigm of WC deriving from Ip Man.

Technically, it doesn't appear to me to develop the type of touch based neural associative conditioning that the sticking i am familiar with attempts to do.

Technically, I see a lot of giving space and poor body positions and postures.

It is to fighting what rolling down a hill is to running. And in my opinion it is a regression rather than a progression.

But each to their own.

Suki

[GlennR]

who would like to analyze the clip in a technical way?

Sure....... its technically nonsense

[k gledhill]

who would like to analyze the clip in a technical way?

No hip elbow force direction, or unity. The arms wave around in the air in some moments without attacking forwards, without any contact :confused: no lat sao chet chung, no da sao jik siu sao , no faat lik siu lik, ....there is more missing but its easier to ask , what is it ? its not vt.

Doing this in a group is ludicrous, it might have a 'brawl' aspect to it, but we are the ones meant to be cutting through all that with direct lines of force...:confused:

[YouKnowWho]

who would like to analyze the clip in a technical way?
When you train, you want to have a "goal". When opportunity arrive, you take it, move in, and finish it. In this clip I don't see that "intention" at all.

[Wayfaring]

That it is a drill and the purpose is simply to get the entire body moving using fairly exaggerated movements to get the knees, hips, etc moving. Its about waking up those joints in an extreme fashion using sticking hands as the basis of the drill.

Hmmm. To me it looks more like waking up something entirely different, if you catch my drift. :D

In other words, if he was doing that shizzle with another dude it would look a little creepy to say the least.

[Wayfaring]

IMO WSL was a man who was clever, hard working and got his hands dirty proving Ving Tsun. He proved it to himself obviously, but also for a certain period in time Yip Man himself. You must have heard the stories of the discussions that went on between WSL and Yip Man during these "Beimo" days. There were probably many factors that contributed to the passing of knowledge between Yip Man and WSL. If these qualities are not present then the information will be flawed. I personally wasnt there but its common sense because it happens everyday in school between teacher and student. We are not all grade A, physically gifted students so the same must apply to Ving Tsun.

Yeah. Uh. Regarding those discussions during the "Beimo" days, I'm sure they were much different than the discussion that go on nowadays - you know, in the "Mouthmo" days.

[Graham H]

Yeah. Uh. Regarding those discussions during the "Beimo" days, I'm sure they were much different than the discussion that go on nowadays - you know, in the "Mouthmo" days.

They didnt have the www in which case it would have been the same. Wake up!

G