Chi Gerk - Wing Chun Kicks done from the Bridge

[Yoshiyahu]

Wing Chun Kicks are not like karate kicks which chamber and shoot out from the out side.

Wing Chun kicks are like shadow kicks they should only be done from a bridge.

-Invisible posture. Invisible kick-

Look at the kicks in the wooden man form and chum kiu. Each time you kick there is always a bridge hand out.

If you are doing kicks with out bridge than your kick will loose Nine times out of ten.

But if you control your opponent and kick when you are bridging


Chi Gerk is an exercise to practice kicking and stop kicking inclose!


Does any one practice Kicking from the Bridge?

http://www.kwokwingchun.co.uk/assets/2009/10/22/yip-man_full.jpg


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/b7/Wingchun.jpg/200px-Wingchun.jpg

http://www.freewebs.com/kclwingchun/Sifu%20in%20action2.jpg

http://www.combat-journal.com/Img_Upload_Departments/6246_09224103541.jpg

http://superiormartialarts.com/images13/51128.jpg

http://www.twc-kungfu.com/photos/bilsao-kick.jpg

http://www.londonwingchun.com/images/sifu_tomorr_leg_wing_chun.JPG

http://www.wingchunonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/wing-chun-mind.jpg

http://www.kungfu.gr/pictures/kick-s.jpg

[wingchunIan]

we train kicking with and without a bridge. Not sure why you'd think kicking without a bridge is doomed to failure? Kicking low level short and sharp is extremely effective both offensively and defensively, as is using wang gerk to bridge at low level from long range destroying the opponents lead leg. loads and loads of applications of kicks without arm bridge IMO.

[Runlikehell]

Kicking with bridges out is also a basic version of the 'no shadow' kick made famous by Wong Fei Hung.

[Lee Chiang Po]

Kicking is or should be under controlled situations, and never just move in and kick. Kicking can put you into a serious disposition if your opponent is any good at all, and you would be best served not to kick until you can do so without getting caught or hit. I would often use a low kick faint to draw out an opponent. Make him react so that I can then take control of him. Even if it is just for a split second, that is all it takes to kick a knee or hip or pelvic. I have never actually attempted to kick a person in the crotch, but rather kicked for the pelvic bridge, which can break easily. The pain will drop you instantly and the fight is done and over. I love people that dance around and throw long kicks.

[YouKnowWho]

If you can get a hold on your opponent's arm, you can take him down. Why do you want to kick him? After you have taken your opponent down, you can kick him anyway you like because he is not going anywhere.

In the following 2 pictures, the take down will be easy to do. All you need is to use your right leg to pull your opponent's leading right leg and use your right hand to push his neck at the same time.

http://www.londonwingchun.com/images/sifu_tomorr_leg_wing_chun.JPG

http://www.wingchunonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/wing-chun-mind.jpg

[grasshopper 2.0]

These pictures are just for show and can't really be used as proof that kicking in wing chun needs a bridge. Kicking with bridging is ideal but how often or likely will that happen? Sometimes kicking to the balls is just easier. Why not use it?

[YouKnowWho]

These pictures are just for show and can't really be used as proof that kicking in wing chun needs a bridge. Kicking with bridging is ideal but how often or likely will that happen? Sometimes kicking to the balls is just easier. Why not use it?

That's exactly what I mean. If a girl invites you into her bedroom, you still ask, "Will you go out with me?" It makes no sense to me. It's much easier to kick your opponent (ask a girl for a date) than to "grab" on his arm (enter a girl's bedroom).

Since the leg is longer than the arm. You have to pass the kicking range in order to get into the punching range. If you are already in punching range, your punch will do better job than you kick.

[Lee Chiang Po]

That's exactly what I mean. If a girl invites you into her bedroom, you still ask, "Will you go out with me?" It makes no sense to me. It's much easier to kick your opponent (ask a girl for a date) than to "grab" on his arm (enter a girl's bedroom).

Since the leg is longer than the arm. You have to pass the kicking range in order to get into the punching range. If you are already in punching range, your punch will do better job than you kick.

I don't know man. I gots short legs and if I am in close enough to punch you, I can kick you way harder and even break stuff on you. One of my favorite attacks was to jerk an opponent toward me, then sort of across me, spinning him side on to me, then footing the back of the knee, folding him back over on his lower legs. I then chop the hell out of him across the side of the neck and side of the wind pipe. Less chance of crushing his wind pipe that way. Attacks like this require surprise. You can seldom pull that off if you tell them you are about to kick their a$$.

[desertwingchun2]

One of my favorite is a short kick to the knee while maintaining eye contact with my opponent. That way I know he isn't looking at my legs or feet. As soon as contact is made the opponent will present their chin and they are immobile for a split second. From experience this works. Period.

i have only kicked one opponent in the junk. This was after I was grabbed "Bear hug" style from behind. Knowing I was not in a friendly environment I escaped before the Bear Hug was completed. Then I spun around squared up with jong sau and instinctively let loose a kick to the junk. Homeboy dropped to his knees doubled over, then proceeded to puke all over himself. Needless to say fight over.

Thinking about it any combat I've been in since training Wing Chun has been over very quickly or never really began.

[Yoshiyahu]

we train kicking with and without a bridge. Not sure why you'd think kicking without a bridge is doomed to failure? Kicking low level short and sharp is extremely effective both offensively and defensively, as is using wang gerk to bridge at low level from long range destroying the opponents lead leg. loads and loads of applications of kicks without arm bridge IMO.

I never Said Kicking is doomed to failure. I do believe in kicking outside of the bridge too...But not 80% of the time. Not even 50% of the time do i think the WC system is designed to kick outside of Close Range. I believe WC kicks are design for inclose fighting not outside.

Thats not to say that you don't front kick the groin as you gain entry. I love stomp kicks to the knee or low side kick the shins or even your occasional toe stomp to mashing down on the foot so he can't move while you attempt to chain punch his face.

But what I am saying is Now and days I see alot of WC just running in with chain punches and front kicking all over the place.

I see them throwing wild kicks which if your opponent is moving away might not land.

If you fight someone who is evasive and light and agile on his feet. When you throw your kick some of steam will left out of it because he is always sticking and moving out of range.

If you think kicking long range or from the outside is going to even compete with a MT guy or Kyoshukin guy your greatly mistaken.

I am sure certain versions of Karate have inside kicks and even inside fighting techniques. But the basis of their art is not set up on those principles.

If you see a MT guy bridging, punching on the centerline, doing vertical punches and wooden dummy kicks he is not really doing MT as it is intended to be.

Same with a WC guy who moves in and out, bobs and weaves, front kicks with no bridge the majority of the time, and chain punches while running in wildly...

Most WC is Glorified Kick Boxers.


I may not be the best fighter on here...But if I fight you...I will fight with the WC techniques to the best of my ability!


Outside Kicks are for gaining entry, Stop Kicks and defensive attacks!

[k gledhill]

I never Said Kicking is doomed to failure. I do believe in kicking outside of the bridge too...But not 80% of the time. Not even 50% of the time do i think the WC system is designed to kick outside of Close Range. I believe WC kicks are design for inclose fighting not outside.

Thats not to say that you don't front kick the groin as you gain entry. I love stomp kicks to the knee or low side kick the shins or even your occasional toe stomp to mashing down on the foot so he can't move while you attempt to chain punch his face.

But what I am saying is Now and days I see alot of WC just running in with chain punches and front kicking all over the place.

I see them throwing wild kicks which if your opponent is moving away might not land.

If you fight someone who is evasive and light and agile on his feet. When you throw your kick some of steam will left out of it because he is always sticking and moving out of range.

If you think kicking long range or from the outside is going to even compete with a MT guy or Kyoshukin guy your greatly mistaken.

I am sure certain versions of Karate have inside kicks and even inside fighting techniques. But the basis of their art is not set up on those principles.

If you see a MT guy bridging, punching on the centerline, doing vertical punches and wooden dummy kicks he is not really doing MT as it is intended to be.

Same with a WC guy who moves in and out, bobs and weaves, front kicks with no bridge the majority of the time, and chain punches while running in wildly...

Most WC is Glorified Kick Boxers.


I may not be the best fighter on here...But if I fight you...I will fight with the WC techniques to the best of my ability!


Outside Kicks are for gaining entry, Stop Kicks and defensive attacks!

"Most WC is Glorified Kick Boxers."

[wingchunIan]

My mistake. Wrt your last post, I agree entirely about the tendancy for supposed WC fighters resorting to pathetically bad boxing / kick boxing when in tournaments but as I've posted elsewhere I've believe that this is down to not training strict WC form to the point that it is ingrained under pressure (it will never look pure in real application but there should be some sembelance of technique.). As someone else posted elsewhere (I think it was Kevin) most WC schools don't train the kicks anywhere near enough. if they are trained correctly they are more than a match for karate kicks and MT kicks (I did MT for many many years) but the range is subtly different and there is no chambering or loading up of the kicks. I would agree that trying to stay at range is a bad strategy but I think putting percentages on kicking with a bridge or not is dangerous as it totally depends upon what the situation dictates each time.


I never Said Kicking is doomed to failure. I do believe in kicking outside of the bridge too...But not 80% of the time. Not even 50% of the time do i think the WC system is designed to kick outside of Close Range. I believe WC kicks are design for inclose fighting not outside.

Thats not to say that you don't front kick the groin as you gain entry. I love stomp kicks to the knee or low side kick the shins or even your occasional toe stomp to mashing down on the foot so he can't move while you attempt to chain punch his face.

But what I am saying is Now and days I see alot of WC just running in with chain punches and front kicking all over the place.

I see them throwing wild kicks which if your opponent is moving away might not land.

If you fight someone who is evasive and light and agile on his feet. When you throw your kick some of steam will left out of it because he is always sticking and moving out of range.

If you think kicking long range or from the outside is going to even compete with a MT guy or Kyoshukin guy your greatly mistaken.

I am sure certain versions of Karate have inside kicks and even inside fighting techniques. But the basis of their art is not set up on those principles.

If you see a MT guy bridging, punching on the centerline, doing vertical punches and wooden dummy kicks he is not really doing MT as it is intended to be.

Same with a WC guy who moves in and out, bobs and weaves, front kicks with no bridge the majority of the time, and chain punches while running in wildly...

Most WC is Glorified Kick Boxers.


I may not be the best fighter on here...But if I fight you...I will fight with the WC techniques to the best of my ability!


Outside Kicks are for gaining entry, Stop Kicks and defensive attacks!

[anerlich]

Calling what YY's "WC fighters" do "glorified kickboxing" insults practitioners of both good WC and good kickboxing.

[Yoshiyahu]

@k gledhill I agree with you. But I say one thing. I remember doing Kick boxing as a kid...it was alot of fun....i know off subject right...But your right most of what i see looks like kickboxing. with no real defense against a jab, straight right or upper cut or a hook. Let alone any defense on basic front kick or side kick or round house!


@anerlich ha ha lol insult both good WC and Good kickboxing...thats funny!!!
What on earth is the YYS?


@ wingchunIan Yes i agree to certain extent. I don't think WC kicks have long range power that Kyoshukin or Muay Thai has. Nor does MT or Karate have the short range power in their kicks WC has. Both MT and Karate have short range kicks but theie system is not design for inclose fighting with the majority of their kicks and punches. Muay Thai has knees and elbows. But so does WC. But WC utilizes more than Elbows and knees inclose. The WC kicks below the waist are design for inclose combat. Thats why if you fight with pure WC you will need to stick to your opponent.

I DONT MEAN STICK LIKE IN CHI SAU.

Not completely any way. Sticking means jamming their space. In other words you only retreat when your opponent attacks or advances because he is attacking you. So he will stay close to you because he is aggressive. From his aggression and strikes he throws you bong sau or bil sau or gum sau which will allow you to bridge (intercept his strikes) while turning off the force. If he is still (No Movememnt) your Tan Da, Jum Da, Pak Da or Lop Da allows you bridge while gaining entry. If he treats you attempt to rush in on loss of contact with kicks, chain punches or grabbing hands to grab his punching hand or guard to set him up for a strike. So in essence you are sticking. "Receive what comes, follow what leaves and rush in on lack of contact." This can be also intrepretated as following your opponents center or in other words attacking him according to the situtation.

You always bridge the gap first with an entry technique from their you establish a bridge and follow the kuit kuen accordingly. Bridging the gap is rushing in on lack of contact. Once you have contact if your opponent retreats you follow him attacking and bridging. If he advances you receive nullifying his force and dispersing his energy as your counter simultaneously while turning off his force. Hence Defend and attack simultaneously!

Of course this is mere theory and conjecture. Every fight is different. An whose to say what you will be able to do against a aggressive struggling opponent. But this is merely the basis for what Wing Chun kicks are designed for...Look at Chum Kiu and Mook Yan Jong. Both deal with Bridging. You stick to your opponents center not his arms. If you stick to your opponent and mirror is movements you will remain in WC distance aka chi sau distance which is where you have a extreme advantage and force him to play your game and not his.

But ne way these are just words! Take them or leave them!

[Yoshiyahu]

nicely put concerning the take down!


If you can get a hold on your opponent's arm, you can take him down. Why do you want to kick him? After you have taken your opponent down, you can kick him anyway you like because he is not going anywhere.

In the following 2 pictures, the take down will be easy to do. All you need is to use your right leg to pull your opponent's leading right leg and use your right hand to push his neck at the same time.

http://www.londonwingchun.com/images/sifu_tomorr_leg_wing_chun.JPG

http://www.wingchunonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/wing-chun-mind.jpg

[Yoshiyahu]

"Most WC is Glorified Kick Boxers."

What is your opinion on how WC kicking should be done

Long Range kicks or short range kicks for inclose!

[anerlich]

What on earth is the YYS?

It was YY's, short for Yoshiyahu's. On Earth? The jury's still out.

[Yoshiyahu]

It was YY's, short for Yoshiyahu's. On Earth? The jury's still out.

lol funny!!!

[Yoshiyahu]

Which kick is more powerful and accurate?


Kicking an opponent with a side kick in wing chun when you have no bridge or connection?

Kicking and Opponent with a side kick as you jut sau?

[EternalSpring]

Look at the kicks in the wooden man form and chum kiu. Each time you kick there is always a bridge hand out.

I'm guessing this is probably a difference in lineage, but in the last "section/third" of Chum Kiu, the Dim Gerk (or w/e you prefer to call it) before the double di bong sao...you have a "bridge hand" out when you do that Dim Gerk?

[bennyvt]

Both of the last kicks don't have a bridge. Both are with your elbows back fist in arm pit

[Yoshiyahu]

The Forms, Muk Yan Jong kicking technqiues and kicking drills in chi gerk all teach you to kick once you have a bridge...Controlling your opponents bridge or structure allows you kick low easier...since he is unable to escape!

Its simply a principle...Its hard to put into actual application unless you drill it and practice it relentlessly!