Meihua Lu

[mooyingmantis]

I was looking back through the old threads here and discovered that there has been no discussion of the Meihua Lu form since 1/8/2008.

I thought it might be interesting to start a discussion since the form is found in both the Qixing and Greater Meihua lines of mantis.

Wong Hon Fan refers to the form as 梅 花 落 (méi huā luò - Plum Flower Falling) in his book series. Most other families refer to the same form as 梅 花 路 (méi huā lù - Plum Flower Road).

Here are some videos of the form:

Taiji Meihua Tanglangquan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7l3flGK1tY&feature=watch_response_rev
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fwc3T0Y8A-g

Taiji Tanglangquan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VY6VWynWEog&feature=channel_video_title

Qixing Tanglangquan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZDYWPAYACI&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_Dgd68COWI&feature=related

[Paul T England]

Interesting clips,

taijitanglangquan is interesting, even looked like a bagua style dragon serving teacup move in there...how mixed are the mainland styles?

WHF version is close to CCM version but has an extra run at end.

How come we have so many differences between WHF and CCM versions?

Paul
www.moifa.co.uk

[TaichiMantis]

This is the cck tcpm version I am learning

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IBGGtF04IQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7n_It4tdcc

http://www.youtube.com/user/meanliar#p/a/u/1/rnFxUFyXLNU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pia3VOSXEw0

[Tainan Mantis]

This is the cck tcpm version I am learning

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IBGGtF04IQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7n_It4tdcc

http://www.youtube.com/user/meanliar#p/a/u/1/rnFxUFyXLNU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pia3VOSXEw0

Dan Zhai Mei Hua is a different form unrelated to Mei Hua Lu. But a nice form.

[Tainan Mantis]

I have suspected for some time that Mei Hua Lu-Plum Flower Road, is another version of Luanjie.
I don't have any solid proof, to go on, just something I try to keep my eyes open for when looking at the different families and varieties of these two forms.
As of yet, I have not found any links in performance that would indicate that they are related.

As far as performance;
A move near the beginning of both forms called Tyrant takes the helmet in mei hua lu is similar in application to Maiden Threads the Needle of Luanjie.

The name Luanjie has also been called MeiHua Lu at least in the QIng Dynasty.

Tyrant Takes the Helmet and Mei Hua Lu (http://www.plumflowermantisboxing.com/Articles/pre%2009/2008/tyrant%20takes%20the%20helmet%20.htm)

[mooyingmantis]

WHF version is close to CCM version but has an extra run at end.

How come we have so many differences between WHF and CCM versions?

Paul
www.moifa.co.uk

LOL! Not brave enough to touch that political hot potato!!! :eek:

Kevin,
Excellent articles on four moves of Meihua Lu at your site!

[mooyingmantis]

Here is my English translation, along with the pinyin for the Chinese characters, of the Wong Hon Fan version of the quanpu for the form:

WHF Mei Hua Luo Translation
Plum Flower Falling

01. Rear Pattern, Double Overturn Palms
bei shi shuang fu zhang
02. Topple Power, Catch Cicada Pattern
dao shi bu chan shi
03. Enter Ring, Single Arm Claw
ru huan dan bi zhao
04. Raise Leg, Thrust at Face Palm
ti tui ying mian zhang
05. Penetrating Palm, Seal, Stride Step
chuan zhang feng deng yong
06. Rising Pattern, Overturn Bottom, Catch Hold
qi shi fan di jie
07. Enter Ring, Right File Palm
ru huan you cuo zhang
08. Raise Leg, Right Offer the Peach
ti tui you xian tao
09. Enter Ring, Right Rolling Arm
ru huan you gun bang
10. Ascend Mountain, Right Uppercut Strike
deng shan you cuo chui
11. Enter Circle, Right Waist Cut
ru huan you yao zhan
12. Seal Hand, Left Gathering Strike
feng shou zuo tong chui
13. Collapse Stance, Left Fill In Strike
tun chang zuo bu chui
14. Ascend Mountain, Right Crushing Strike
deng shan you beng chui
15. Right Close Door Leg Method
you bi men tui fa
16. Ascend Mountain, Ten Character Strike
deng shan shi zi chui
17. Pouncing Leg, Left Circle Strike
pu tui zuo quan chui
18. Ascend Mountain, Left Crushing Strike
deng shan zuo beng chui
19. Seven Star, Left Hook Hand
qi xing zuo diao shou
20. Seven Star, Right Fill In Strike
qi xing you bu chui
21. Ascend Mountain, Right Returning Palm
deng shan you fan zhang
22. Advancing Pattern, Leaking Chop Palm
jin shi lou qie zhang
23. Withdraw Step, Left Gathering Strike
che bu zuo tong chui
24. Ascend Mountain, Right Circle Strike
deng shan you quan chui
25. Ascend Mountain, Right Uppercut Strike
deng shan you cuo chui
26. Enter Ring, Right Waist Cut
ru huan you yao zhan
27. Gathering Punch, Ten Character Leg
tong chui shi zi tui
28. Horse Pattern, Right Split Stop
mah shi you pi ga
29. Right Sweeping Wing Kicking Leg
you lue chi ti tui
30. Ascend Mountain, Left Straight Gathering
deng shan zuo zhi tong
31. Straddle Tiger, Left Single Whip
kua hu zuo dan bian
32. Straddle Tiger, Left Hook Hand
kua hu zuo diao shou
33. Ascend Mountain, Right Circle Strike
deng shan you quan chui
34. Horse Pattern, Leaking, Stop Knee
mah shi lou ga xi
35. Right Circle, Single Whip Pattern
you quan dan bian shi
36. Ascend Mountain, Right Uppercut Strike
deng shan you cuo chui
37. Enter Ring, Right Waist Cut
ru huan you yao zhan
38. Ascend Mountain, Right Returning Palm
deng shan you fan zhang
39. Middle Pattern, Right Greeting Circle
zhong shi you jiao quan
40. Ascend Mountain, Right Circle Strike
deng shan you quan chui
41. Ascend Mountain, Right Uppercut Strike
deng shan you cuo chui
42. Withdraw Step, Hang, Gathering Strike
che bu gua tong chui
43. Ascend Mountain, Right Split Stop
deng shan you pi ga
44. Kick Leg, Right Rolling Arm
ti tui you gun pang
45. Withdraw Step, Big Wheel
che bu da fan che
46. Continue Advancing, Three Pulleys
lian jin san lu lo
47. Raise Leg, Left Uppercut Strike
ti tui zuo cuo chui
48. Raise Leg, Right Uppercut Strike
ti tui you cuo chui
49. Double Seal Hands, Stride Step
shuang feng shou deng yong
50. Withdraw Step, Left Carry Palm
che bu zuo tiao zhang
51. Withdraw Step, Right Carry Palm
che bu you tiao zhang
52. Turn Body, Double Bind Legs
zhuan shen shuang kun tui
53. Straddle Tiger, Left Carry Palm
kua hu zuo tiao zhang

I would love to see the Meihua Tanglangquan quanpu if anyone has it. HINT! HINT! :)

[Paul T England]

Let me say I hate martial politics and don't want to get into right or wrong.

There are clear differences in forms done by different families of mantis as with every other martial art.

It would be nice to have open discussions on the why and how this has happened. Lets be honest its just evolution.

On another note, my understanding is that at least hong kong schools often have signature starts or ends or even combinations in there forms to identify their school. Wing Chun and CLF at least have this evolution so I would not be supprised if it happened with mantis as well.

WHF group seem to have had alot of cross over with CCK mantis and its welknown that CCM did eagle claw before mantis so as a good great grandstudents of these great masters it would be good to have a better understanding of from where the water flows.

Oh before people say ask your sifu, maybe they are too close and traditional to have open disucssions around such topics but surely us western 21st century boys can have mature discussions.

Paul
www.moifa.co.uk

[Tainan Mantis]

I would love to see the Meihua Tanglangquan quanpu if anyone has it. HINT! HINT! :)

It is in zhang bing dou's book

[TaichiMantis]

so what is the meaning of "plum flower" in both these forms? they must be related somehow...just curious:o

[mooyingmantis]

There are clear differences in forms done by different families of mantis as with every other martial art.

Paul
www.moifa.co.uk

Paul,
Can you share the differences between the CCM version of Meihua Lu and the WHF version that I posted?


It is in zhang bing dou's book

Do you know where this is available? I checked the internet but couldn't find a reference to it? Is it in English or Chinese?

[mantis108]

This is the cck tcpm version I am learning

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IBGGtF04IQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7n_It4tdcc

http://www.youtube.com/user/meanliar#p/a/u/1/rnFxUFyXLNU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pia3VOSXEw0

Hi TaiChiMantis,

Kevin is correct that DanZhai MeiHua has nothing to do with Mei Hua Lu, which is created by Jiang Hua Long.

Our DZMH has many classic combinations from other forms found in our line such as 12 old hands (I recently learned this form), Bengbu, Lanjie, Jiegun, Bazhou, Zhai Yao. This is interesting in that it shows consistency within the style. There is clearly a thread through the style.

DZMH has elements of Zhai Yao in it plus a few more kicks than our other forms. In a sense, this is more of a representation of Sun Yuan Chang's "personal" style to me.

Lanjie, Jiegun, DanZhai MeiHua, Bazhou, Zhai Yao is, in my mind, the five petals of the plum blossoms of CCK TCPM. DZMH is the hub or highlight of Sun Yuan Chang's personal style.

Warm regard

Robert

[mantis108]

so what is the meaning of "plum flower" in both these forms? they must be related somehow...just curious:o

Plum Flower usually refers to the five hands which are "Gou" (hook), "Lou" (grab), "Cai" (pluck), "Gua" (hanging), "Pi" (split/chop).

In the Greater Meihua Line, the plum flower would be the five hands used in conjunction with the 5 leaks. So as far as I am concerned, one will not be doing MH without the five hands and five leaks together.

Hope this helps answer your question.

Warm regard

Robert

[TaichiMantis]

:)thanks very much Robert! We have a sub-group of female students that meet at eachother's homes for good food, drink, and stories. We call ourselves the Plum Flower Ladies! Sify Li usually shows up for awhile and we get him to tell us stories about Sigung and his time in Vietnam.

[Tainan Mantis]

I thought you had ZHang Bingdou's book. I don't know where it is available, maybe on some book site. I noticed it has once again been reissued last time I was in CHina. I didn't buy it though.

[mooyingmantis]

I thought you had Zhang Bingdou's book. I don't know where it is available, maybe on some book site. I noticed it has once again been reissued last time I was in CHina. I didn't buy it though.

Nope, don't have it yet. But I did find where I could order it and should receive it Monday if not before. :)
Thank you for pointing me to it!

After I translate the quan pu of Meihua Lu, I will post it for all to see.

[mooyingmantis]

Here is Zhang Bingdou's (TJMH TLQ) quan pu for the first road of Meihua Lu:

螳 螂 雙 封 下
táng láng shuāng fēng xià
Praying Mantis Double Seals Descend

左 封 右 臂 肘
zuǒ fēng yòu bì zhǒu
Left Seal, Right Forearm Elbow

纏 龍 護 眼 打
chán lóng hù yǎn dǎ
Coiling Dragon, Eye Protecting Strike

左 擒 右 蹬 踏
zuǒ qín yòu dèng tà
Left Capture, Right Trample Step

霸 王 去 摘 盔
bà wáng qù zhāi kuī
Overlord Takes the Helmet

擒 髮 挫 嘴 巴
qín fà cuò zuǐ bā
Capture Hair & Break Mouth

雙 叫 雙 幫 肘
shuāng jiào shuāng bāng zhǒu
Double Invitation, Double Augmented Elbow

左 封 右 崩 點
zuǒ fēng yòu bēng diǎn
Left Seal, Right Crashing Strike

偷 展 磨 盤 打中 堂
tōu zhǎn mó pán dǎ zhōng táng
Steal Open, Millstone Strike to Middle Hall

鳳 凰 三 點 頭
fèng huáng sān dian tóu
Phoenix Thrice Nods It's Head

臨 行 鴛 鴦 腳
lín xíng yuān yang jiǎo
Moving Mandarin Duck Leg

[Tainan Mantis]

雙 叫 雙 幫 肘
shuāng jiào shuāng bāng zhǒu
Double Invitation, Double Augmented Elbow

What you put for 'bang' is ' augmented'
THat is a tough one to translate. Old manuals use a different character.
7* in HK uses the character that means 'to help' which makes sense.
But I have heard also that it is from a verb to do a job such as rowing a boat or pulling a bucket out of a well.

I would like to see more work done on this characer, I think it relies on some shandong dialect and won't be found in standard dictionaries..

As for your choice of invitation, why that and not provoke?

[mooyingmantis]

雙 叫 雙 幫 肘
shuāng jiào shuāng bāng zhǒu
Double Invitation, Double Augmented Elbow

What you put for 'bang' is ' augmented'
THat is a tough one to translate. Old manuals use a different character.
7* in HK uses the character that means 'to help' which makes sense.
But I have heard also that it is from a verb to do a job such as rowing a boat or pulling a bucket out of a well.

I would like to see more work done on this characer, I think it relies on some shandong dialect and won't be found in standard dictionaries..

As for your choice of invitation, why that and not provoke?

帮

Kevin,
Respectfully, I don't think it is that tough to interpret.

Yes, I have seen this word translated as "help" (as in "helping elbow"). However, I do not think it clarifies what the technique entails.

IMO the structure of the technique reveals the proper interpretation of the word.

The forward arm is helped, reenforced, or augmented by the pressure that is exerted upon it by the rear hand. Alone, the forward arm is weak. But with the pressure of the rear hand pressing against the forward arm near the wrist, the structure is much stronger.

The word augment means "to make something greater by adding to it". Thus, I believe augment is a more precise term than help when the structure of the technique is considered.

To help others who may not be familiar with the technique that we are talking about, I will offer this picture: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150337048594481&set=a.439598454480.197292.750549480&type=3&theater





雙 叫 雙 幫 肘
shuāng jiào shuāng bāng zhǒu
Double Invitation, Double Augmented Elbow

As for your choice of invitation, why that and not provoke?

In the HK Seven Star version of this set, the augmented elbow is preceded by the arm motion known as "offer the peach" (献 桃 - xiàn táo). As explained by my Sifu, the action deflects the attacker's forward moving arms upward and forward to off-balance him and set him up for the augmented elbow strike.

I saw this as similar to the philosophy behind the 白 猿 請 客 “White Ape Invites Guest” (bái yuán qǐng kè) technique. While 白 猿 請 客 exerts pressure forward and downward, and 献 桃 exerts pressure forward and upward, both share the same strategy: to off-balance the opponent and set them up for the strike.

I also was unaware of the definition "provoke" for 叫 (jiào). So, perhaps I am completely lost in a wilderness of words on 叫. :)

Can you shed light on how "provoke" come into play in this technique?

The translation I felt was the most questionable was:

纏 龍 護 眼 打
chán lóng hù yǎn dǎ
Coiling Dragon Guard Eye Strike

I understand the technique, but the quanpu is quite muddy to me. Any thoughts?

As always, thank you for your insights!

[Tainan Mantis]

The translation I felt was the most questionable was:

纏 龍 護 眼 打
chán lóng hù yǎn dǎ
Coiling Dragon Guard Eye Strike

I understand the technique, but the quanpu is quite muddy to me. Any thoughts?

As always, thank you for your insights!

A coiling or wrapping dragon can often be seen in temples around the beams and pillars. Mantis already has the custom of calling the arm a pillar as do other martial art styles.
So, for a dragon to coil about a pillar is like my hand wrapping around your hand as I deliver eye protecting strike.

Dragons on pillars and roof beams (http://library.thinkquest.org/07aug/00193/life4.html)

[mooyingmantis]

A coiling or wrapping dragon can often be seen in temples around the beams and pillars. Mantis already has the custom of calling the arm a pillar as do other martial art styles.
So, for a dragon to coil about a pillar is like my hand wrapping around your hand as I deliver eye protecting strike.

Dragons on pillars and roof beams (http://library.thinkquest.org/07aug/00193/life4.html)

Oh ok! Thank you for clearing that up!! :)

[mooyingmantis]

Since I had the day off work today I had a little time to translate the quanpu for the second road of Meihua Lu. Enjoy!

Second Road

转 身 回 马 鞭
zhuǎn shēn huí mǎ biān
Turn Body, Revolve Horse Whip

右 采 迎 面 圈
yòu cǎi yíng miàn quān
Right Pluck, Meet Face Circle

隔 肘 伏 地 下
gé zhǒu fú dì xià
Separate Elbow, Conceal Underneath

胁 捶 反 仰 掌
xié chuí fǎn yǎng zhǎng
Threatening Strike, Reverse Upward Facing Palm

偷 展 打 中 堂
tōu zhǎn dǎ zhōng táng
Steal Open, Strike Center Hall

刁 采 回 马 鞭
diāo cǎi huí mǎ biān
Deceptive Pluck, Revolve Horse Whip

擒 拿 护 眼 斩 腰
qín ná hù yǎn zhǎn yāo
Capture & Hold, Eye Protecting, Chop Waist

缠 龙 锁 口 撩 阴 脚
chán lóng suǒ kǒu liāo yīn jiǎo
Coiling Dragon Mouth Lock, Lifting Yin Leg

劈 开 中 门 压 当顶
pī kāi zhōng mén yā dāng dǐng
Split Open Center Gate, Push Down on Top

双 封 閉 門 脚
shuāng fēng bì mén jiǎo
Double Seal, Close Door Leg

右 采 胁 捶 迎
yòu cǎi xié chuí yíng
Right Pluck, Threatening Strike

[mooyingmantis]

Does anyone of the Hong Kong lineage know why the name of this form was changed from 梅 花 路 - Méi Huā Lù or "Plum Flower Road" to 梅 花 落 - Méi Huā Luò or "Plum Flower Falling"?

I see that on Lee Kam Wing's website he uses the Chinese characters 梅 花 路. I also spoke with a Qixing Tanglangquan member, not of the Wong Hon Fan line, and he said they also used the Chinese characters 梅 花 路.

So, perhaps it was Wong Hon Fan that changed the name of the form to 梅 花 落 ?

Does anyone know when the form was adopted into the Qixing Tanglangquan family, and by whom?

[mooyingmantis]

I am currently translating the quan pu for the third road of Meihua Lu from Zhang Bingdou and Li Zheng Tang's books.

For movements twenty-eight and twenty-nine I have:

白 鹤 亮 翅 两 边 打
bái hè liàng chì liang biān da
White Crane Reveals Wings to Both Sides Strike

粘 手 入 手 擒 身 旁
nián shǒu rù shǒu qín shēn páng
Sticky Hand, Entering Hand & Capture Body to the Side

Does anyone have a more palatable translation?

Note: Yes, I understand the applications. I just feel my translation isn't flowery enough. :D

Since movement twenty-nine is ends in a hair grab and pull, is "pull body to the side" a more accurate rendition of the move?

Thanks in advance!

[Paul T England]

I think the word falling describes the actions of the form better.

Paul
www.moifa.co.uk

[CFT]

Richard, you don't have to translate so literally. Since Chinese has a different grammar to English a literal translation can sometimes sound clunky. On the flipside sometimes they come out like a fortune-cookie pearl of wisdom. It all depends on the particular phrase.

A slight tweak of your excellent translation for your consideration:

白 鹤 亮 翅 两 边 打
White Crane Reveals Wings to Strike Both Sides

粘 手 入 手 擒 身 旁
Sticking Hand, Entering Hand, Captures the Side Body

[mooyingmantis]

Richard, you don't have to translate so literally. Since Chinese has a different grammar to English a literal translation can sometimes sound clunky. On the flipside sometimes they come out like a fortune-cookie pearl of wisdom. It all depends on the particular phrase.

A slight tweak of your excellent translation for your consideration:

白 鹤 亮 翅 两 边 打
White Crane Reveals Wings to Strike Both Sides

粘 手 入 手 擒 身 旁
Sticking Hand, Entering Hand, Captures the Side Body

CFT,
Thank you for your help! :)

White Crane Reveals Wings to Strike Both Sides definitely sounds much better.

Captures the Side Body I am not sure about.

The action is a right hook hand that sticks and deflects an oncoming punch. This is followed by a left inner seal (grab) to the opponent's elbow area of the same arm. Finally the right hand reaches forward to grab the opponent's hair. The stance is then lowered and the opponent is pulled to the ground at the mantid's right side by means of the opponent's hair.

[mooyingmantis]

Here is my translation of the quanpu for the third road:

孤 雁 出 群 去 点 睛
gū yàn chū qún qù dian jīng
Lone Goose Exits Flock, Leave and Dot Eye

提 膝 隔 肘 往 下 打
tí xī gé zhǒu wǎng xià dǎ
Lift Knee, Separate Elbow Toward Lower Strike

起 身 护 眼 下 扫 裆
qǐ shēn hù yǎn xià sǎo dāng
Raise Body, Protect Eye & Lower Sweep the Crotch

偷 展 磨 盤 打中 堂
tōu zhǎn mó pán dǎ zhōng táng
Steal Open, Millstone Strike to Middle Hall

白 鹤 亮 翅 两 边 打
bái hè liàng chì liang biān da
White Crane Reveals Wings to Strike Both Sides

粘 手 入 手 擒 身 旁
nián shǒu rù shǒu qín shēn páng
Sticky Hand, Entering Hand & Pull Body to the Side

缠 鞭 过 耳 鴛 鴦 脚
chán biān guò ěr yuān yang jiǎo
Swing Whip Through the Ear, Mandarin Duck Leg

进 步 雙 帮
jìn bù shuāng bāng
Advance Step, Double Augmented Elbow

As always, please feel free to suggest changes. :)

[CFT]

CFT,
Thank you for your help! :)

White Crane Reveals Wings to Strike Both Sides definitely sounds much better.

Captures the Side Body I am not sure about.

The action is a right hook hand that sticks and deflects an oncoming punch. This is followed by a left inner seal (grab) to the opponent's elbow area of the same arm. Finally the right hand reaches forward to grab the opponent's hair. The stance is then lowered and the opponent is pulled to the ground at the mantid's right side by means of the opponent's hair.Of course you must balance the literal translation (kam --> capture) with the meaning. Sometimes this is not possible. Sounds like inner seal + hair pull = capture. You must choose what is most useful to you and your students.

[CFT]

孤 雁 出 群 去 点 睛
gū yàn chū qún qù dian jīng
Lone Goose Exits Flock, Leave and Dot EyeLone Goose leaves the Flock to Peck the Eye


提 膝 隔 肘 往 下 打
tí xī gé zhǒu wǎng xià dǎ
Lift Knee, Separate Elbow Toward Lower StrikeLift Knee, Separate Elbow, Strike Downward



缠 鞭 过 耳 鴛 鴦 脚
chán biān guò ěr yuān yang jiǎo
Swing Whip Through the Ear, Mandarin Duck LegCoiling Whip Passes Ear, Mandarin Duck kicks


进 步 雙 帮
jìn bù shuāng bāng
Advance Step, Double Augmented ElbowAdvancing Step, Double Assisting Elbow

[mooyingmantis]

CFT,

Thank you! Your translations are much more polished. I appreciate the corrections!

[CFT]

You're most welcome.

I could have been a mantid (7*). My old club taught that & Wing Chun at the same session/training space. Given my previous training I opted for the WC. We used to regularly spar the mantids end of class. Very different and a good experience for us all. They had fast footwork, in-and-out. Lots of level changes.

[mooyingmantis]

Here is the last section of the quanpu:

Fourth Road

下 步 翻 车
xià bù fān chē
Lower Step, Wheeling

进 步 辘 辘 捶
jìn bù lù lù chuí
Advancing Step, Windlass Strike

左 右 引 针
zuǒ yòu yǐn zhēn
Left & Right Pull Needle

左 擒 右 蹬 踊
zuǒ qín yòu dèng yǒng
Left Capture, Right Tread Step

雙 分 雙 闭
shuāng fēn shuāng bì
Double Seals, Double Close

雙 封 剁 子 脚
shuāng fēng duò zǐ jiǎo
Double Seal, Small Chop Kick

侧 身 鴛 鴦 腳
cè shēn yuān yang jiǎo
Incline Body, Mandarin Duck Kick

螳 螂 雙 封 手
táng láng shuāng fēng shǒu
Praying Mantis Double Seal Hands

[mooyingmantis]

Here are the three hair restraining techniques taught in Meihua Lu:

Movement Five
霸 王 去 摘 盔
bà wáng qù zhāi kuī
Overlord Takes Helmet

Capture the opponent's lead right hand with your lead right hook hand grab. Now swing your left hand up and in from the outer gate and grab the back of the opponent's head by the hair. Immdeiately twist the opponent's head so that his face is directed upward and lift your left knee to attack his lower ribs.

Movement Six
擒 髮 挫 嘴 巴
qín fà cuò zui bā
Capture Hair & Break Mouth

This is a continuation of the above technique. After striking the lower ribs with the left knee, maintain the hair grab while dropping into a left kneeling stance. As the opponent is falling strike the opponent's jaw with the right palm heel.

Movement Twenty-nine
粘 手 入 手 擒 身 旁
nián shou rù shou qín shēn páng
Sticky Hand, Entering Hand & Capture Body to the Side

This move is set up with the technique "White Crane Reveals Wings to Strike Both Sides". After a right waist chop from a left Hill Climbing step, slide the right foot up behind the left foot and execute a left seal and a right yang palm strike to the left side of the opponent's face.
Then step the right foot forward while executing a right hook hand, left seal and a right hair grab. Pull the opponent downward by the hair so that the opponent's head impacts the ground to the right of the forward right foot.

[mooyingmantis]

Will (Xiaoyao) posted this video of a student of Master Zhou Zhendong performing the Taiji Tanglangquan version of Meihua Lu:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wykTcY8tigg

[alextse4]

I thought you had ZHang Bingdou's book. I don't know where it is available, maybe on some book site. I noticed it has once again been reissued last time I was in CHina. I didn't buy it though.

I think this is your book.

[mooyingmantis]

Alex,

Yes, that is the book. After Kevin mentioned it I was able to find the two volume set on-line and purchased them. :)

[YouKnowWho]

Here are my simple questions:

- Why does a beginner need to learn this form?
- What does this form offer that other forms don't?
- Will this form make me to grow "tall", or it will make me to grow "fat"?
- ...

[mooyingmantis]

Here are my simple questions:

- Why does a beginner need to learn this form?
- What does this form offer that other forms don't?
- Will this form make me to grow "tall", or it will make me to grow "fat"?
- ...

Good questions!


Why does a beginner need to learn this form?

This is a form that I believe could be taught at any level. However, if you wanted to introduce a beginner to some of the most vicious moves of tanglangquan, this form is a good choice. It has punching, eye-gouging, hair pulling, kicking, kneeing, joint-locking and throwing. It has principles like: 虛 實 - xū shí, 剛 柔 - gāng róu (hard-soft) and 陰 陽 - yīn yáng (passive-active).


What does this form offer that other forms don't?

It is not a matter of what it has that other forms do not have. Meihua Lu draws concepts and techniques from important forms like : Xiao Beng Bu, the Fanche series, Duo Gang and the Zhai Yao series. Though it is a small form (38 moves give or take depending on the family of Mantis) it has a lot of depth.


Will this form make me to grow "tall", or it will make me to grow "fat"?

Not really sure what this means. But if you mean, "Is it just another form to pile onto the heap?" No!

If I could only preserve one short form that I felt had the principles to teach my students to fight, it would be this form.

[YouKnowWho]

Not really sure what this means. But if you mean, "Is it just another form to pile onto the heap?" No!

If I could only preserve one short form that I felt had the principles to teach my students to fight, it would be this form.
All mantis forms are good for combat. That was not what I mean. For example, the

- Beng Bu form is good for "speed" (beginner level).
- Ran Jia form is good for "body pull/push limbs" (intermediate level).
- Zhai Yao form is good for "summary" (advance level).

Not sure which level this form should be placed. Also not sure this form is a "must learn" form.

[xiao yao]

I think this forms works in a similar way to zhai yao; as a kind of condensation

is ran jia a misspelling of luan jie? otherwise ive never heard of it?

the most important forms are bengbu, luan jie & ba zhou

[YouKnowWho]

I think this forms works in a similar way to zhai yao; as a kind of condensation

is ran jia a misspelling of luan jie? otherwise ive never heard of it?

the most important forms are bengbu, luan jie & ba zhou

"乱接(luan jie)" is the correct name.

[mooyingmantis]

I think this forms works in a similar way to zhai yao; as a kind of condensation

Agree!

If I were to try and condense the theme of meihua lu as YouKnowWho does with beng bu, luanjie and zhai yao, I would say the theme is "viciousness in fighting". Though I would love to have been able to hear Jiang Hualong and Song Zide's commentary on why the form was developed as it was. :)


the most important forms are bengbu, luan jie & ba zhou

I think it depends on the family of mantis. Each of those forms vary greatly from family to family. Da Beng Bu or Xiao Beng Bu? Luanjie of Taiji Tanglangquan has little in common with Hong Kong Seven Star Lanjie.

I think Zhao Yao Yi Lu is a more common denominator among the typical mantis families. Though that form varies a bit too. Especially in Babu Tanglangquan.