How could this happen?

[RenDaHai]

Do you think this could possibly happen in America?

http://www.56.com/w73/play_album-aid-9632532_vid-NjM4NTUxMjQ.html

(watch from 40 seconds)

This is China. It is an example of a complete lack of social responsibility and complete negligence and incompetence on behalf of everyone.

The reason I post this is because I live in China and I love it. But there are some things I dislike and this video sums up those things perfectly. I see minor examples of this kind of negligence everyday and everywhere. I often complain about it, but people always think I am being too critical. They don't see the problem and think we are the same in the West.

But I do not think this could possibly happen in, say, America. I just don't think it could. I think average people in the West are much more aware of their actions and of their social responsibility. But maybe I am wrong.

Is it just me? What do you think?

I pray the little girl survives.

[David Jamieson]

Can it happen in America?

Yes, yes it can...

In fact:

Approximately 1,229 people have been killed so far this year by hit and run drivers in the US.*

Another, 83,628 people have been injured.*

so, yes, that was a tragic thing to occur and to have it go viral on the internet.
I'm sure it will cause more cat calls about how the chinese are all monsters and don't care, but this does happen right here. We have our own uncaring monsters and plenty of them.

It happens anywhere there are vehicles in abundance. Everywhere.

[RenDaHai]

Really?

But there is a whole series of epic fails here.

She was hit by TWO cars. The first car continued to drive over a second time after realising he hit her. And 19 people walked past. The person who moved her just left her. And what was she doing alone for so long in the first place.

I mean, sure one or two of the above 23 fails could have happened.... but ALL of them?

Maybe it is just me then.....

1,229 huh? That is a lot.....

Although I think its great for this kind of thing to go viral on the internet. It gives it the attention it deserves and makes us all just a little more cautious.

[bawang]

firstly it went on the news. so obviously this isnt something common.

secondly it happened in foshan, guangdong. need i say more?

[RenDaHai]

firstly it went on the news. so obviously this isnt something common.


That is a good point. It just lines up with a lot of my personal experiences.

If you have both the ability and opportunity to help someone, but you choose not to, where does the law stand on that?

[David Jamieson]

It is a tragedy. It probably isn't common at all, but it does happen. It was dark, she was very small. Horrible, but when you see something truly horrifying, it is not your first thought that what you are looking at is real.

I can understand how people wouldn't have even made the connection that that was a person.

I hope for her too.
I hope that many people see this and improve their attentiveness while driving as well.

[GETHIN]

There was a case here earlier in the year of a young guy trying to help an OAP who had collapsed, he ended up in a Chinese court and now has to pay something like 100,000rmb in compensation....
Two weeks ago I was waiting at some traffic lights and I watched a bus drive over a guy on a motorbike, the bus driver stopped, walked back to the guy who was motionless - lying face down on the road, and started dragging him by one arm to the kerb.Whilst probably trying to help he was surely not.. I stopped him and tried to warn other drivers to keep clear while the bus driver reluctantly called for an ambulance.
The story about the two year old girl is tragic, I don't think anyone who watches the cctv of what happened won't feel completely shocked. But why was a two year old left to play alone - on a road ?.
The driver of the first vehicle, a large van has told the press he had fallen out with his girlfriend and was trying to use his mobile at the time, everyone seems to use their mobiles while driving in China, sadly no one had the common sense to use one to call for help.
The first driver handed himself in but only after he had contacted the girls father and offered him money...the father refused.
The driver also rang the press and told them that if the girl survives he will have to pay for the rest of his life...much more than if she dies.
There are cries far and wide across China for him to be executed. I would like to see the re-introduction of "Ling-chi" for this particular character.
Whilst there can be no good ending to this, I really hope that the authorities will ban the use of mobile phones in cars, and that people will not hesitate to try and help out when possible, although I can't see that happening here for some time yet.

[GeneChing]

We had a shooting in San Jose some 25+ years ago. My memory is pretty sketchy on it, but I think it was a robbery. The person bled out on a major street corner. There were many witnesses. No one helped.

It's called Bystander Apathy or the Bystander Effect and has been a documented since the mid '60s. There were several psych experiments on it where victims were ignored on the streets. It's a fairly robust psychological effect, sad to say.

[Lee Chiang Po]

I think that the event hit TV and national news is simply because it was caught in it's entirety by security video. Most of these happenings are not so well documented and so does not ring with such severity. My question is, what in the he11 was a 2 year old child out there at that time and for so long that all this took place. What was the parents doing? Some of the people did stop and look to see if it was real, some just walked on around. People just don't want to get involved in other peoples junk. And for very good reason. They usually end up being responsible for something when there is no one else to blame. The parents should share any punishment that the first driver draws.
Several years ago now a small child died on a freeway while his mother sat in a pub drinking beer with some dude. The child woke up and went looking for his mother.
They investigate anyone that chooses to adopt. They spend endless hours determining their ability to care for a child. But anyone can just start having them with absolutely no training in childcare at all. I think anyone that chooses to have a child needs to take some sort of training. Just getting pregnant without a certificate should be a felony and punishable as such.

[RenDaHai]

Yeah, I heard about bystander apathy. But in a violent situation its different because our self defense instincts kick in and we don't want to get involved in the violence. Now Everyone has mobile phones I would expect the effect to be somewhat lessened.

Its true that the Mother should take some part of the blame here, but the driver is really nasty. I mean, sure he didn't mean to hit her at first, but the force of the impact stopped his car. At this point he MUST have looked, realised it was a child and made the conscious decision to drive over with the back wheels. There is no way you hit something that makes your car stop, and then don't look what it was before you bring the rest of the car over it.

Also the second car makes me angry, who is so stupid to drive over something without looking at it.

I mean there is a lot of Blame to go round here.

[RenDaHai]

I really hope that the authorities will ban the use of mobile phones in cars, and that people will not hesitate to try and help out when possible, although I can't see that happening here for some time yet.

I have had similar experiences as you mentioned above.

China needs all its road laws completely reinvented, but a ban on mobiles would be a good start.

[David Jamieson]

Well the little girl died apparently and all the news channels are running with it so they can show the horrible video one last time.

Corporate news broadcasting centers are run by people who are pure evil. I'm certain of it now.

[RenDaHai]

Oh no.......D*mn

[wenshu]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/oct/17/toddler-hit-and-run-china


Many say they are too scared, blaming extortion attempts by people who have accused Good Samaritans of causing their injuries – and judges who have backed such claims. But some talked of a new moral low after seeing passersby – including a woman holding a small girl by the hand – walk around a two-year-old lying in a pool of blood.

China Daily claimed that the woman who stopped, a rubbish collector, was even told by shopkeepers to mind her own business when she tried to find out the child's identity.

Many internet users expressed fury, describing those who ignored Yueyue as less than human. "Where did conscience go … What has happened to the Chinese people?" wrote one, Reissent1987.

Several pointed out that it was a rubbish collector – among the poorest and often worst-educated members of society – who stopped to help, while others carried on.

But some said that people should ask themselves how willing they would have been to help before criticising.

One said that while the footage was heartbreaking he would have been "numb" to Yueyue too. "Would you be willing to throw your entire family's savings into the endless whirlpool of accident compensation? Aren't you afraid of being put into jail as the perpetrator? Have you ever considered that your whole family could lose happiness only because you wanted to be a great soul?" he wrote.

Chinese media said the two drivers who had hit Yueyue were now in police custody.

http://shanghaiist.com/2011/10/17/foshan_toddler_yueyue_still_under_i.php



Earlier media reports that Yueyue, the toddler who was knocked down by two vehicles outside a market in Foshan, has passed away have turned out to be false.
Yueyue's mother has appeared on Sina Weibo herself to clarify the situation. She said that while Yueyue was still unable to breathe on her own, her situation has stabilised, and she has regained some sensation in her limbs. Doctors say that her chances of recovery are now better than earlier estimated.
Meanwhile, the first driver who knocked down Yueyue has also been apprehended by the police. Chinese media reports say he had just broken up with his girlfriend and was on his cell phone when he hit the girl.
He had called Yueyue's father to say he would never surrender, and that he could give him some money if that was what he wished. When a journalist called (tune in to the call below), he revealed that he was planning to escape to Xinjiang.
"You saw that girl on the CCTV footage, she didn't see where she was going, you know. I was on the phone when it happened, I didn't mean it," he said. "When I realised I had knocked her down, I thought I'd go down to see how she was. Then when I saw that she was already bleeding, I decided to just step on the gas pedal and escape seeing that nobody was around me."
"If she is dead, I may pay only about 20,000 yuan ($3,125). But if she is injured, it may cost me hundreds of thousands yuan," he added.

http://shanghaiist.com/2011/10/18/meet_chen_xianmei_the_trash_collect.php


Journalists have located Chen Xianmei, the woman who came to the rescue of Yueyue, the two-year-old toddler who was knocked down by two vehicles and left to die by 18 passersby in Foshan, Guangdong province. 58-year-old Chen works as a domestic helper for a hardware shop in the market by day, and a trash collector by night. The girl's parents are inconsolable when they finally meet their benefactor and kowtow to her profusely.
Chen says that when she found the toddler, Yueyue had one eye shut and the other eye open looking at her. After pulling the girl to the side of the road, Chen went around to all the shops in the neighbourhood asking if anyone had lost their daughter. Nobody responded.
When asked if she was afraid of getting into trouble by helping the girl, Chen said, "I didn't think I was getting into any trouble. I didn't think so much. I just wanted to help her." And having said that, she excused herself form the journalists and returned to work.

[RenDaHai]

Well I hope the rumor she has passed away are false.

"You saw that girl on the CCTV footage, she didn't see where she was going, you know. I was on the phone when it happened, I didn't mean it," he said. "When I realised I had knocked her down, I thought I'd go down to see how she was. Then when I saw that she was already bleeding, I decided to just step on the gas pedal and escape seeing that nobody was around me."
"If she is dead, I may pay only about 20,000 yuan ($3,125). But if she is injured, it may cost me hundreds of thousands yuan,"

This quote from the driver is so awful I really think I could kill him myself. I mean, when he decided to 'step on the gas' he ran his back wheels over her multiplying the damage he had already done. I mean it was attempted murder. After he realised she was injured he thought it would be better if he killed her because it would cost him less.

Imagine being someone who thinks like that.....

And the fact he admits his line of thinking so readily means he expects other people to think like that too.

I have decided its not just me who thinks this is a culteral problem. After reading about this I have read about many more such cases, one where the person run down was run over by 4 other cars afterwards. And of the many cases I have read about those are the ones that were caught on camera, there must be many more that are never known about. China does have a serious problem.

The shopkeepers telling the helping woman to mind her own buisness is familiar. I have been told this before. Once while helping a girl who was being beaten by her father. The 30 odd people watching told me to mind my own buisness. Another time when at a crossing a woman was picking another womans purse and I stopped her. Many people saw clearly but no one even said anything, they told me to 'Zou ni de lu, guan ni de shi' Walk your road, mind your buisness. Another time when I took the registration of a car that hit a man, checked if he was breathing, hailed down the police (after one policeman had looked and driven past). Two other times when reporting incidents which I won't post. It gets to me sometimes.

This kind of behaviour is a serious problem.

[David Jamieson]

Well, it's not likely that China will suddenly have the Judeo-Christian ethic embedded into their culture where they will pre-guilt about such things and thereby alter behaviours that preclude these sorts of things.

People that have been pressed down and who have seen their government wipe out hoards of human beings for the sake of political ideology don't see the value of life in the same way as someone from a particularly nurturing and somewhat egalitarian culture does.

It's easy to not care when you have a certainty within you that you are not cared for either in a greater sense. It's reciprocal and every one is on their own in that sort of thought form.

Take for instance how America was founded. "All men are created equal". At the time, people who were not White and of european extraction were not even considered human and there was no penalty for killing anyone who wasn't white. It was akin to shooting a mere animal. If it was a slave, you might have had to pay the monetary value to the slave owner depending on what you shot the slave for.

Even today these prejudices manifest themselves in strange ways. If there is no apparent enemy to hate, people start to hate themselves. Or if the enemy you hate is far too powerful to do anything about, then hopelessness sets in and chaos follows.


Brace yourself, because in China it is going to get worse, far far worse. Capitalism has made a home there now, which will create a divide above a divide and there will be even less caring, less organized charity and so on. Yes, it's a cultural problem. Every culture has cultural problems.

[RenDaHai]

It's easy to not care when you have a certainty within you that you are not cared for either in a greater sense. .

That is well said.

[GETHIN]

Agreed, I think you just hit the nail on the head there.

[bawang]

1- the country has 1.3 billion people, its very tough thinking about others, most people are worried about survival.

2- prc wiped away traditional values and morals, created a spiritual vaccum, filled by capitalism


3-in psychology its called diffusion of responsibility. the more people, the less someone will take action.

[sanjuro_ronin]

So, somehow people that don't give much regard to the life of others, NOT giving much regard to the lie of another is surprising?

[Syn7]

Can it happen in America?

Yes, yes it can...

In fact:

Approximately 1,229 people have been killed so far this year by hit and run drivers in the US.*

Another, 83,628 people have been injured.*

so, yes, that was a tragic thing to occur and to have it go viral on the internet.
I'm sure it will cause more cat calls about how the chinese are all monsters and don't care, but this does happen right here. We have our own uncaring monsters and plenty of them.

It happens anywhere there are vehicles in abundance. Everywhere.

really, i have always found the chinese to be more apathetic when dealing with people they dont know. i always just assumed it was a culturqal thing coz of the sheer amount of people in china. if you aknowledged even 1/100 of the people you saw in one day you wouldnt get anything done. i cant speak for the whole race tho, i'm only talking about the ones here, in vancity.

lemme say also that i have met very many chinese who would help that kid. im not knocking the race or anything. ive just noticed that they are less likely to even aknowledge a stranger on the street than most of the other races i come across. and here in vancouver, we come across them all.


somebody posted a vid ghere a year ago or so that had a guy and young girl on the street faking an attack. she yelled "you arent my daddy" etc and the test was to see how folks responded. ironically all the middle class looking white folks avoided it whereas the stereotypical black men in baggy clothes that are always viewed as criminal and dangerous were the only opnes who actually tried to help the lil white girl.

i totally believe something like that could happen in north america.

it doesnt shouck me that people would step over a body in the street, but it does suprise me that they wouild step over a child in the street. to me thats just dfisgusting. karma is a *****, they'll get theirs. prolly arleady had, before the accident even happened.

[Syn7]

So, somehow people that don't give much regard to the life of others, NOT giving much regard to the lie of another is surprising?

no... not at all...

was anyone suprised by this vid? shocked, sure, disgusted, yeah... but not suprised... it happens everyday, no bout a doubt it!!! ;)

[Syn7]

Well, it's not likely that China will suddenly have the Judeo-Christian ethic embedded into their culture where they will pre-guilt about such things and thereby alter behaviours that preclude these sorts of things.

People that have been pressed down and who have seen their government wipe out hoards of human beings for the sake of political ideology don't see the value of life in the same way as someone from a particularly nurturing and somewhat egalitarian culture does.

It's easy to not care when you have a certainty within you that you are not cared for either in a greater sense. It's reciprocal and every one is on their own in that sort of thought form.

Take for instance how America was founded. "All men are created equal". At the time, people who were not White and of european extraction were not even considered human and there was no penalty for killing anyone who wasn't white. It was akin to shooting a mere animal. If it was a slave, you might have had to pay the monetary value to the slave owner depending on what you shot the slave for.

Even today these prejudices manifest themselves in strange ways. If there is no apparent enemy to hate, people start to hate themselves. Or if the enemy you hate is far too powerful to do anything about, then hopelessness sets in and chaos follows.


Brace yourself, because in China it is going to get worse, far far worse. Capitalism has made a home there now, which will create a divide above a divide and there will be even less caring, less organized charity and so on. Yes, it's a cultural problem. Every culture has cultural problems.


well said, man.

[GeneChing]

Incidents provoke talk of moral collapse in China (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/10/21/MNN61LJPP6.DTL)
Keith B. Richburg, Washington Post
Friday, October 21, 2011

Several dramatic recent incidents - including one involving a 2-year-old girl run over in the road while more than a dozen bystanders ignored her plight - have opened a searing debate in China over whether, in the race to get rich, the country might have lost its moral bearings.

The little girl, Yue Yue, who was critically injured and remains in a coma, was run over Thursday by two vehicles as a gruesome video recording captured 18 people walking or driving by who did not intervene. What most shocked many here was that this was just the latest example of Chinese passers-by who declined to help others in distress.

At the West Lake UNESCO World Heritage Site in eastern Zhejiang province last week, an unidentified woman, reportedly an American tourist, jumped into the water to rescue a woman who was drowning, possibly attempting suicide. Internet chat sites immediately lighted up with questions about why a foreigner intervened, while no Chinese would.

The reason most often given is that recently in China, bystanders who did intervene to help others have found themselves accused of wrongdoing. In August, in the eastern province of Jiangsu, a bus driver named Yin Hongbing stopped to help an elderly woman who had been struck by a hit-and-run driver. But until he was later vindicated by surveillance videos, Yin was the one accused of hitting the woman.

There have also been several cases of passers-by stopping to help elderly people who had fallen, or were pushed, and who then were sued by the elderly victims or were arrested. The thinking here is: They must have been responsible, or they would not have stopped to help.

It did not help that the Health Ministry in September issued new Good Samaritan guidelines that essentially warn passers-by not to rush to help elderly people on the ground but to first ascertain whether they are conscious and then wait for trained medical personnel to arrive.

One Internet user, in a comment posted after the West Lake incident, wrote: "That tourist was too impulsive. She didn't know that in China, kind people who save others are often accused of being the perpetrator. The next time you run into someone who was hit by a car, you need to be careful."

But the case of the toddler lying in the street has ignited a debate about indifference to suffering and whether society has suffered some moral collapse.

"Cracks can be seen in the moral framework of Chinese society," the Communist Party-owned Global Times newspaper wrote in its lead editorial Wednesday. "Many are asking: What's wrong with China?"

In response, many here - scholars in interviews and Internet users in chat rooms - have turned the blame on the government. They say the breakdown began during the Cultural Revolution of the 1960s and '70s and that in a system that does not respect individual rights and freedoms, people take their cue from the behavior of officials at the top.

"I think the biggest problem is the corruption of the government officials," said Zhou Xiaozheng, a sociology professor at Renmin University in Beijing. Hu Xingdou, an economics professor at Beijing Institute of Technology, said he saw the problem as an absence of religious ethics in what is largely an atheist society. Modern Chinese, he said, "don't have beliefs, although China has indigenous religions like Taoism and Buddhism. ... China is actually an atheist country, and Chinese people are never afraid of God's punishment."
'kind people who save others are often accused of being the perpetrator' :(

[Jimbo]

When I lived in Taipei, in three instances I stopped to help people who had been hurt in motorcycle/scooter accidents; in one case, a little girl sitting behind her grandfather had her leg broken in a collision with a car. In each case, I was the only person who even acknowledged them. Everybody else walked or drove right by, and I even overheard two young women walking by...one of them told the other (in Mandarin, of course) "Keep going! Go! Don't look at them! Not our business."

I only stopped because I could only imagine if it were me or someone I cared about. I couldn't do much, but I waited with them, helped move them or their bikes out of the road to the curb so they wouldn't get run over, and tried to summon help, which eventually came. The average time I spent with them was about 30 to 45 minutes. When the help arrived, I quietly left.

I didn't do it for thanks and never got any. But sometimes I wonder what they would have thought if they knew the only person who cared enough to stop and help them was a foreigner, and of Japanese extraction at that.

[wenshu]

http://shanghaiist.com/2011/10/20/lu-xun-good-samaritans.php


"In China, especially in the cities, if someone fainted on the streets, or if someone was knocked over by a car, you'll find lots of gawkers and gloaters, but rarely will you find someone willing to extend a helping hand."

「在中国，尤其是在都市里，倘使路上有暴病倒地，或翻车捽摔伤的人，路人围观或甚至高兴的人尽有，有肯伸手 来扶助一下的人却是极少的。」 ——鲁迅《经验》一九三三年
- LU XUN ON THE RARITY OF GOOD SAMARITANS IN CHINA (1933)

[diego]

'kind people who save others are often accused of being the perpetrator' :( It almost seems like the government condones this type of carelessness..I mean I dont know anything about modern China but if the commies lol start putting out Care campaigns telling people to watch out for pedestrians what are they going to say after the next Tiannemen Square type of incidence. Putting tanks on University students and walking by dead kids is the same **** am I wrong?.

[David Jamieson]

It almost seems like the government condones this type of carelessness..I mean I dont know anything about modern China but if the commies lol start putting out Care campaigns telling people to watch out for pedestrians what are they going to say after the next Tiannemen Square type of incidence. Putting tanks on University students and walking by dead kids is the same **** am I wrong?.

Or like when police gas and beat people in Egypt in Tahir square, and we all get upset and say what scumbags the Egyptians are and then when police gas, beat and shoot people with rubber bullets in Philly, San Fransisco, Seattle, Baltimore, Oakland and so on, we talk about what a bunch of chaotic hippies those people are.

we all don't like to see our own sh1t and easily regard someone else's as worse.

It's pathetic.

[Syn7]

yeah, i agree. we aint sh1t. im really starting to get disgusted by all this 'our way is the best way' bullsh1t.

you hear it the most with our legal system. "its not perfect but i cant think of anything better". thats such trash. i have tons of ideas that would be better. i got revisions for days..... and if somebody doesnt, they arent as smart as they think they are.

[Jimbo]

Or like when police gas and beat people in Egypt in Tahir square, and we all get upset and say what scumbags the Egyptians are and then when police gas, beat and shoot people with rubber bullets in Philly, San Fransisco, Seattle, Baltimore, Oakland and so on, we talk about what a bunch of chaotic hippies those people are.

we all don't like to see our own sh1t and easily regard someone else's as worse.

It's pathetic.

That is very true.
There's also a tendency for us to lump the legitimate protesters into the same category as the few provacateurs that often infect these gatherings and turn them violent.