Muammar Gaddafi Dead

[Lucas]

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2011/10/20111020111520869621.html

[sanjuro_ronin]

If it be true, so the devil we KNOW is dead, now we just have to deal with those devils we DON'T know.
Cause that worked out so well for us in the past, LOL !

[Lucas]

If it be true, so the devil we KNOW is dead, now we just have to deal with those devils we DON'T know.
Cause that worked out so well for us in the past, LOL !

lol...almost like dejavu eh?

[sanjuro_ronin]

lol...almost like dejavu eh?

Funny thing is that the west was actually beginning to be able to communicate and negociate with Gaddafi.
But this "islamic brotherhood" is a very troubling thing indeed...
Hope that I am wrong.

[Lucas]

Time will tell I suppose...maybe.

[Jimbo]

Funny thing is that the west was actually beginning to be able to communicate and negociate with Gaddafi.
But this "islamic brotherhood" is a very troubling thing indeed...
Hope that I am wrong.

That was my first thought when this whole thing began. It seems like the West never learns. Many Americans seem to believe that these countries will (or should) be transformed into a mini-U.S. That will never happen. I'm not saying that's good or bad in and of itself, only that these are completely different cultures from the West. Yet they keep supporting these overthrows of dictators that aren't really an immediate threat to the West. Then we're always surprised when hostile groups take over.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

[sanjuro_ronin]

That was my first thought when this whole thing began. It seems like the West never learns. Many Americans seem to believe that these countries will (or should) be transformed into a mini-U.S. That will never happen. I'm not saying that's good or bad in and of itself, only that these are completely different cultures from the West. Yet they keep supporting these overthrows of dictators that aren't really an immediate threat to the West. Then we're always surprised when hostile groups take over.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

History repeats itself.

[ShaolinDan]

Therefore history is insane. :)

[David Jamieson]

Doc Brown is avenged after all this time.
So, that's a side bonus to his fall.

[Syn7]

i thought the rebels were trying to take the high road here? shouldve taken him alive... i dunno all the details but i would bet a stack that they desecrated(sp?) his remains somehow. some modern day arab version of the mule drag thru the town square. i would have rather seen him go the route saddam went. killed legally.

[Syn7]

That was my first thought when this whole thing began. It seems like the West never learns. Many Americans seem to believe that these countries will (or should) be transformed into a mini-U.S. That will never happen. I'm not saying that's good or bad in and of itself, only that these are completely different cultures from the West. Yet they keep supporting these overthrows of dictators that aren't really an immediate threat to the West. Then we're always surprised when hostile groups take over.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

whos suprised??? you suprised??? ive never been suprised by that...

we have some good things in western culture... but we have far more bad things about us than good... i dont think we're any more righteous than any of the nations we condemn...

[diego]

Doc Brown is avenged after all this time.
So, that's a side bonus to his fall. all week Ive been trying to get around to watching the BTF boxset lol. What I like about this is gadefees vics are no longer victems now it can just be a fd up event in their lives, they can move on.

[Jimbo]

whos suprised??? you suprised??? ive never been suprised by that...

we have some good things in western culture... but we have far more bad things about us than good... i dont think we're any more righteous than any of the nations we condemn...

I'm not surprised. And I also don't think the U.S. is necessarily any more righteous than any other country. That's why I stated that other countries' inability to become mini-Americas isn't good or bad in itself, but that they're just different, and you can't expect the U.S.'s values to translate the way many here think they should into another culture.

And I do expect that the new rulers will probably be anti-U.S. if they aren't already. They'll gladly accept the U.S.'s help, but once in power they usually show their true feelings on that. What really annoys me is that, with all the economic problems at home, the U.S. spent heaping amounts on military aid to Libya, when they should have let them handle their own problems. Maybe I'm uninformed here, but that's how I feel.

[bawang]

rest in peace, great king.

[Lucas]

i really dont think oj simpson did it.

[David Jamieson]

i really dont think oj simpson did it.

nope and it wasn't Scaramanga either! Although that would have been very ironic.

[Lucas]

http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Film/Pix/gallery/2006/11/03/scaramanga1.jpg

[wenshu]

http://photos.myjoyonline.com/photos/news/201110/477577391_217726.jpg

video:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-15389550

Appears he was executed.

[Lucas]

http://s3-ak.buzzfed.com/static/imagebuzz/web05/2011/10/20/11/golden-gun-boss-11025-1319124613-28.jpg

[Hardwork108]

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2011/10/20111020111520869621.html

Now the Western "Democracies" can move on to loot North African oil, and apparently gold reserves for the next zillion years. That is what these "people's" revolutions have always been about. Of course, they also help to put the given countries in line with a world financial system designed to screw almost
every man, woman and child on the planet. Yes, say hello to the banking cartels, and their puppets in the most powerful governments in the world.


This, and all the other uprisings in that region was never about creating a "Democracies", as first we need to create it in Europe and North America, before we export it to foreign lands through war and mass-murder, no less.

[David Jamieson]

We have to move in and get things going on before those yokels slide into sharia and islamic law nonsense and find themselves with a theocratic dictator in a couple of years.

lol, the idiot they put in charge want's to combine religion and state apparently.

yeesh, it will take considerable effort to balance this world. Most of teh world doesn't have a clue what balance is.

[sanjuro_ronin]

We have to move in and get things going on before those yokels slide into sharia and islamic law nonsense and find themselves with a theocratic dictator in a couple of years.

lol, the idiot they put in charge want's to combine religion and state apparently.

yeesh, it will take considerable effort to balance this world. Most of teh world doesn't have a clue what balance is.

And was exactly did the west think was going to happen?

[David Jamieson]

And was exactly did the west think was going to happen?

The intended result was that Ghadaffi not be allowed to use a gold standard or to allow Russia or China to profit from Libyan Oil.

It really doesn't have a lot to do with democracy and quite frankly, the people of the middle east are pretty clueless about democracy and apply their own idea of what it is to it.

Many want "democracy" but also are "ok with sharia" which of course are contrary to each other, so it's not likely that people who have been subjected to dictators, tyrants and kings for generations aren't going to bump hip easily to a concept f individual freedom, worth, respect, equality etc.

Already they want to lift the limit on how many wives you can have.

seriously messed up. We cannot apply our paradigms to the folk there. They really don't share our viewpoint or our thinking on any of these subjects and it is a clever ruse by our government to use our own paradigm to explain what;s going on there.

More of the same is what you can expect, but the main thing is Ghaddafi is out and the impending threat of increased oil and gas prices is now gone and all the billions Libya had in foreign countries can be stolen with paltry and symbolic amounts returned to them in an effort to try and waylay expenses incurred.

It's laughable that people think this is about democracy. liberty and freedom? Sure, but how long does that last before the constraints are locked on again because someone thinks the world should run the way he wants it to.

meh, I don't care about any of it really, I just want Libya to pay us for using our airforce to do their job.

[sanjuro_ronin]

The middle east is turning more and more fundamentalist and the west is leading the way.
The ass biting that will come from this will be of epic proportions and we will have no one to blame but ourselves ( of course we will blame others).

[Hardwork108]

The intended result was that Ghadaffi not be allowed to use a gold standard or to allow Russia or China to profit from Libyan Oil.
The people behind all of this needless violence (I am including the other uprisings in the Arab countries, as well as the war in Iraq and Afghanistan), are the same people who are implementing the New World Order, which from what you have said in your past posts, seem to be in favor of.

Another reason for what happened in Libya was the fact that their Central Bank was not integrated to the private banking cartel of banks that run the world. Hint, North Korea and Iran are other such countries. ;)

Of course, the use of the gold standard is a solution that is suggested in the West as well, by the more intelligent (and not on the take) politicians to reduce the ability of banks from creating money from thin air.

As for Libya selling oil to China and Russia, well god forbid that a sovereign nation decides who to sell its own minerals....:rolleyes:


It really doesn't have a lot to do with democracy

How could it have anything to do with Democracy, when the countries who most moan about democratic rights, human rights etc. are some of the worst violators of those very rights....LOL!


and quite frankly, the people of the middle east are pretty clueless about democracy and apply their own idea of what it is to it.

That may be because they were never allowed to have a clue about democracy, by the very Western powers who claim to be so?

Remember that Iran democratically elected a president in the 1950s. His name was Mossadegh. Once he dared ask for a fairer share of Oil profits for his country and people, he was removed by a CIA (US) and MI6 (UK) orchestrated coup. This is a fact and it is recognized by official history, just like the US backed coups against DEMOCRATICALLY elected leaders in Chile and Brasil in the 1960s.

Of course, Mossadegh was replaced by a young Shah of Iran, whose role was to be a Western puppet. However, as he matured in years, he started thinking for himself and began putting the interests of his country before those of the Colonizers. He decided to not renew the 25 year oil contract - ending in 1979 - that he had signed upon coming to power. He announced his decision in 1974, if memory serves me correctly.

Anyway, his country had one of the strongest economies of the world. He was the best allie the West had in the Middle East (after Israel, of course). However, upon his announcement of his wish not to renew the oil contract, the mechanism to get rid of him started.

Suddenly, we heard in the West that the Shah was a bad dictator who "tortured" his people; violated "human rights" and other over inflated lies. Opposition groups within the country were being funded and supported by the CIA and the MI6. The Ayatollah's message was beamed nightly into Iran through the Iranian language BBC short wave programs.....and more! To cut a long story short, the Shah of Iran fell in 1979!, the same year that his contract was to run out with the West.

Following his fall, the new Islamic regime, ruthlessly slaughtered any possible opposition that could present a counter-revolution. They even did so for years to come outside of Iran in Europe and the US, where they murdered Iranian politicians, intellectuals and etc. Some of the assassins were caught, but apparently none of them were ever imprisoned. Interesting, no?

Shortly after the fall of the Shah, Iraq attacked the militarily weakened Iran. Saddam Hussain the then leader of Iraq, was a US/Western Allie (his time had not come yet!). The war lasted about 10 years, more than a million people were killed, while the Democratic and "Human rights loving" US and her allies, supplied arms to both sides!

I just got into a lot of details to show you and others about the mindset and mentallity of those who run our everyday lives - yes, the same people who preach about Human Rights, Freedom and Democracy at a drop of hat.


Many want "democracy" but also are "ok with sharia" which of course are contrary to each other, so it's not likely that people who have been subjected to dictators, tyrants and kings for generations aren't going to bump hip easily to a concept f individual freedom, worth, respect, equality etc.

IMHO, if the West had not pumped hundreds of millions of dollars in support of fundamentalist Islamic groups and governments ( see - the Iranian "Revolution"; Afghan "Freedom" fighters; the Sheiks in Saudi Arabia, etc,), then the world would not be in this mess.

By the way, if you think that West's support for Islamic Fundamentalism was a mistake, then think again. It was all planned to divide and rule, cause mayhem and control the Middle East, while a black and white "Hollywood" version of the events were constantly presented by the controlled media to the dumbed down population in the West, who are as much victims of this power cabal as the Arabs and the rest of the world, but they just don't know it yet!


Already they want to lift the limit on how many wives you can have.

With women outnumbering the men in most countries, that may not be bad idea.....:D

Besides, I believe that people should be able to choose. IF a woman is happy marrying a married man, and the wife does not mind, then who am I to stop them? Serious!


We cannot apply our paradigms to the folk there. They really don't share our viewpoint or our thinking on any of these subjects and it is a clever ruse by our government to use our own paradigm to explain what;s going on there.
If you are suggesting that they are backward by certain standards (because I know that they are ahead of most of the West in others), then you should appreciate the fact that they were kept that way by the West, by the West's support for various Islamic movements referred to before, as well as the so called Islamic Brotherhood (have a read about their history and links with British Intelligence ;) )!


More of the same is what you can expect, but the main thing is Ghaddafi is out and the impending threat of increased oil and gas prices is now gone and all the billions Libya had in foreign countries can be stolen with paltry and symbolic amounts returned to them in an effort to try and waylay expenses incurred.

Here is a piece of useful info. No matter what the propaganda you hear tells you, the rise or fall in oil prices are decided in the West and not in the Middle East. ;)

You are right. The Western powers (in their usual pecking order) will steal whatever they can from Libya´s foreign reserves.


It's laughable that people think this is about democracy. liberty and freedom? Sure, but how long does that last before the constraints are locked on again because someone thinks the world should run the way he wants it to.
Are you talking about someone sitting in the leadership chair in a Western country or someone in a newly "liberated" Arabian country? LOL!


meh, I don't care about any of it really, I just want Libya to pay us for using our airforce to do their job.
Don't worry, as I am sure that they will be paying for your "help" for decades to come, with their oil, gold and probably thousands of more innocent lives!

[Drake]

I'm so glad folks like you are marginalized to message boards, youtube, and whatever other ghetto internetz you go to to act nuts...

Rant all you want... the grownups are still calling the shots, fortunately.

[Hardwork108]

I'm so glad folks like you are marginalized to message boards, youtube, and whatever other ghetto internetz you go to to act nuts...

Rant all you want... the grownups are still calling the shots, fortunately.

Most of what you saw in my post is OFFICIAL history. Only the brainwashed and the indoctrinated cannot connect the dots, because they are living in an intellectual Cuckoo Land!

Others don't see the truth that is biting them in the asz because they suffer from, " I am too smart and I would have known about this if this was true", syndrom.

And then there are those who KNOW the truth, but seek to discredit it to somehow preserve the "order", because they believe that they will be getting something out of it.

These last group may include government officials and military (self admitted, intelligence) officers, such as yourself.;)

[David Jamieson]

I'm so glad folks like you are marginalized to message boards, youtube, and whatever other ghetto internetz you go to to act nuts...

Rant all you want... the grownups are still calling the shots, fortunately.

You wish but unfortunately there is nothing that is more insane than resorting to violence on an industrial level. It has little to do with being adults.
If adults were involved, there would have been diplomatic resolutions to everything, but as everything is based on political rhetoric and retarded intuitive nonsense, we get to have endless wasteful war instead.

But you go ahead and feel smug about it. lol

we'll see who's marginalized when you get home.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Gaddafi sodomized?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/24/gaddafi-sodomized-video_n_1028970.html

[David Jamieson]

Gaddafi sodomized?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/24/gaddafi-sodomized-video_n_1028970.html

With a knife apparently.
Beaten, shot, sodomized with a knife, shot again.

Yeah, that's a professional army that got him...:rolleyes:

crikey what a backwards messed up scene that is.

[sanjuro_ronin]

With a knife apparently.
Beaten, shot, sodomized with a knife, shot again.

Yeah, that's a professional army that got him...:rolleyes:

crikey what a backwards messed up scene that is.

Typical of what you would expect of a rebel "army".
Too much hatred boiled over with a people that believe in "an eye for an eye" as something very literal.

[David Jamieson]

Typical of what you would expect of a rebel "army".
Too much hatred boiled over with a people that believe in "an eye for an eye" as something very literal.

It is absolutely literal. Unless you have the value of an eye as agreed upon, tehn you may be able to keep yours after putting someone else's out.

Yeah, that crap don't jibe in the civilized world. Oh sure we got our problems, we have criminals, but we don't have judges ordering the removal of body parts or the stoning of women who have been raped and various other heinous activities that go with Sharia law in the Islamic world.

seriously, we cannot relate, at all. Why would these folk relate to us? They can't. When they do, they leave there and come here!

[Lucas]

totally off topic but i dont want to make a new thread....what would happen if someone with some WMD targeted the polar ice caps? like some force hell bent on massive world destruction....why target any countries themselves. whos guarding the poles?

[sanjuro_ronin]

totally off topic but i dont want to make a new thread....what would happen if someone with some WMD targeted the polar ice caps? like some force hell bent on massive world destruction....why target any countries themselves. whos guarding the poles?

Ok Dr, Evil !
:D

[Lucas]

no fer reals!!!! do you think that would flood the crap out of us?

[sanjuro_ronin]

no fer reals!!!! do you think that would flood the crap out of us?

Not sure of the physics behind that but I do know that there are military instalations in the N and S poles and satellites monitoring them.

[Lucas]

good! because you never know when dr. evil will strike!

[sanjuro_ronin]

Rouge states with nuclear weapons are great for stories but no really a reality in the real world, for one reason a rouge state would be danger to ALL nations with nuclear power and that is a LOT of nukes aimed at one rouge state.
For another reason, the monitoring of nuclear weapons is something that ALL nations are very anal about.

[Hardwork108]

totally off topic but i dont want to make a new thread....what would happen if someone with some WMD targeted the polar ice caps? like some force hell bent on massive world destruction....why target any countries themselves. whos guarding the poles?

You touch upon a very important topic, and that is the topic of target selection. If these terrorists really existed and they were not some organizations created by our own intelligence agencies to selectively terrorize us, they would have plenty of targets to blow up.

Look at the "hijack and crashing or exploding airplanes in mid air threat". Why should a real terrorist bother? I mean all the planning and risk, when they could walk into any public place and blow themselves up?

I will tell you why. The reason is that our own governments who are hell bent on terrorizing us and herding us towards accepting being part of regional dictatorships, by taking away our freedoms, are not too slowly implementing control mechanisms.

Take airport safety for example, why should a "terrorist" attempt to take small sharp objects into a plane, when he can buy a bottle of whisky in the duty free and then smash it inside a plane and use the glass to cut people. He can even use the alcohol content of the bottle to set the aircraft on fire, 30 thousand feet up in the air. Now, if you and I know of tha possibility then I am sure that our security agencies who "care" so much and want to "protect" us, know it too. But of course, airport security has nothing to do with protecting people, it has to do with getting them used to being controlled and subtely give their rights away.

Yes, air travel is a good place to start. Once they have their eye scanners, intrusive X ray machines and their full body searches fully accepted by the public, then don't be surprised that bombs start going off in other transport facilities such as bus or train stations (read, False Flag).

We will be told that the "successful" security measures in airports have resulted in the "Terrorists" using easier targets. Then the same type of security measures will be installed in your local subway, bus stations etc. to "protect" us.

Then of course, when the population's movements are fully controlled, bombs will go off in shopping malls, cinemas etc. We will be told that the "Terrorists" are aiming at still easier targets. This will result in more expanded security measures.

Soon, people won't be able to bend over to tie their shoe laces without some government agency sticking a camera up their butts, just in case they are "terrorists" planning to launch a missile from their rear ends!

Of course, people who wake up and criticize this trespass on their rights and freedoms, will be called nut job tin hat wearing "conspiracy" theorists, or worse, treated like terrorists, because "if they are not with us, then they are with them, hence against us!" doctrine, which every self respecting dictatorship worth its salt, has implemented during recent history.

The whole "war on terrorism" and the other "wars", such as the one on Drugs, etc, are games, but we the population, are never going to be the winners, if we keep giving our minds away to these psychopathic control systems.

[MasterKiller]

totally off topic but i dont want to make a new thread....what would happen if someone with some WMD targeted the polar ice caps? like some force hell bent on massive world destruction....why target any countries themselves. whos guarding the poles?

Every country extends their protection boundaries north and south to each pole.

[RenDaHai]

totally off topic but i dont want to make a new thread....what would happen if someone with some WMD targeted the polar ice caps? like some force hell bent on massive world destruction....why target any countries themselves. whos guarding the poles?

Well thats a cool idea, but the ice covered area of Antarctica for example is about 5 million square miles. Lets say a moderate nuclear blast could vapourize 20 square miles of ice, you would need a lot of bombs to flood the world. And other effects of that many bombs would be more damaging than the water released.

[David Jamieson]

There has been almost 2000+ Nuclear weapons tests since 1945.
Our ozone layer seems to be the thing that has taken the most damage from that...and aerosol sprays.

[Syn7]

meh, I don't care about any of it really, I just want Libya to pay us for using our airforce to do their job.

we'll get our cut... dont worry about that.

[Syn7]

You wish but unfortunately there is nothing that is more insane than resorting to violence on an industrial level. It has little to do with being adults.
If adults were involved, there would have been diplomatic resolutions to everything, but as everything is based on political rhetoric and retarded intuitive nonsense, we get to have endless wasteful war instead.

But you go ahead and feel smug about it. lol

we'll see who's marginalized when you get home.

man, you give adults way too much credit... i cant name even one truly enlightened adult. we are all tainted by our own experiences and perceptions. but then i spose it comes down to whether one believes reality is subjective or objective. besides, imagine how bland we would be if everything clicked like lego... thats the path to 1984.

a great example is the city i live in. sure im biased, but nobody can disagree that its a beautiful place with natural landscapes that are truly unique in that no other major metropolis in canada has what vancouver has. anyways, that aside, i was looking at old pics of the city from the 50's. the city itself was this awesome neon chaotic beauty and was beautiful in its entirety. the granville mall had this tunnel effect that just sucked you in.
then city council decided that order was more important than living free. now the grandville mall is bland boring and useless. the robson strip, once a family oriented street for housewives and such, now its all expensive boutiques and art f@gs who wouldnt know good taste if it kicked their asses. hastings street went from being the city center and a play area for the working class to a junkie haven where you can right now watch numerous people shoot up right on the sidewalk. cant even walk a block without being offered crack or head for $$$ 10 times.
city halls push for order pushed out all the real people that gave this city its flavour and made room for wealthy brats from overseas and junkies. that whole scenario is the perfect metaphorical microcosm displaying the downfall of our so called wholesome society into one that serves the dollar before the family.

[Hardwork108]

man, you give adults way too much credit... i cant name even one truly enlightened adult. we are all tainted by our own experiences and perceptions. but then i spose it comes down to whether one believes reality is subjective or objective. besides, imagine how bland we would be if everything clicked like lego... thats the path to 1984.

a great example is the city i live in. sure im biased, but nobody can disagree that its a beautiful place with natural landscapes that are truly unique in that no other major metropolis in canada has what vancouver has. anyways, that aside, i was looking at old pics of the city from the 50's. the city itself was this awesome neon chaotic beauty and was beautiful in its entirety. the granville mall had this tunnel effect that just sucked you in.
then city council decided that order was more important than living free. now the grandville mall is bland boring and useless. the robson strip, once a family oriented street for housewives and such, now its all expensive boutiques and art f@gs who wouldnt know good taste if it kicked their asses. hastings street went from being the city center and a play area for the working class to a junkie haven where you can right now watch numerous people shoot up right on the sidewalk. cant even walk a block without being offered crack or head for $$$ 10 times.
city halls push for order pushed out all the real people that gave this city its flavour and made room for wealthy brats from overseas and junkies. that whole scenario is the perfect metaphorical microcosm displaying the downfall of our so called wholesome society into one that serves the dollar before the family.

What is has happened in the beautiful city of Vancouver, once (or perhaps even now) said to be one of the best cities to live in the world, has happened in other great cities in the world.

You are not going to believe this as usual, but all of this decadence you see is by design, to weaken societies, family life and so on, so as to create stronger control mechanisms.....

[Drake]

He publicly executed dissidents in the streets. What were we expecting? A hug and a ticket to Rio?

In other news, Iraq is finally over. Yay.

[Hardwork108]

He publicly executed dissidents in the streets. What were we expecting? A hug and a ticket to Rio?

Why not, you did install a citizen executing dictatorship in Brasil in the 1960s, after all, and that is official history and NOT "conspiracy" theory! So, you could have had your man Gaddafi doing some damage there as well again. I mean the economy is good over in Rio, so it must be ripe for destruction, by some ruling elite doctrine. Yes or no?


In other news, Iraq is finally over. Yay.
Do you mean that the war is over, or have you finally managed to destroy the whole country of Iraq and its people?:rolleyes:

[mawali]

Tyrants and others suffer from a severe case of cognitive dissonance, like some of our career politicans! One cannot treat the public like crap and then expect a different result when the table are turned!
As a man sows, the same he will reap!
allahu akbar

[Drake]

Tyrants and others suffer from a severe case of cognitive dissonance, like some of our career politicans! One cannot treat the public like crap and then expect a different result when the table are turned!
As a man sows, the same he will reap!
allahu akbar

The only difference is here we vote them out of office. There, they vote them out of life.

[Drake]

Why not, you did install a citizen executing dictatorship in Brasil in the 1960s, after all, and that is official history and NOT "conspiracy" theory! So, you could have had your man Gaddafi doing some damage there as well again. I mean the economy is good over in Rio, so it must be ripe for destruction, by some ruling elite doctrine. Yes or no?


Do you mean that the war is over, or have you finally managed to destroy the whole country of Iraq and its people?:rolleyes:

Sooner or later those whiners are going to have to take responsibility for their actions. Last I checked, the insurgency in Iraq was what set things back. People blowing themselves and their countrymen up on a daily basis instead of rebuilding after living under a dictator who tortured and killed everyone from political opponents to soccer players who performed badly. Oh, and ruined his country in a stupid war with Iran and openly defied a GLOBAL mandate regarding weapons inspections. A defiance that SH openly admitted was intentional.

Man up and take responsibility, instead of blaming the US for everything.

[bawang]

cold steel pireces flesh
a moment of clarity:
death is not the end.

[Hardwork108]

Sooner or later those whiners are going to have to take responsibility for their actions. Last I checked, the insurgency in Iraq was what set things back. People blowing themselves and their countrymen up on a daily basis

The insurgency in Iraq was partly the result of the overkill approach of the US and her allies. You kill too many innocent people, then their family and friends are more likely to take up arms against you and use extreme measures.

The other part of the insurgency and the "terrorist" activities" were nothing more than the US, UK and probably other allies' military services taking part in false flag operations, just like the British SAS officers who were captured while attacking and killing Iraqi government police checkpoint, DRESSED AS ARABS! Yes, they were attacking the same police force that they themselves, together with the US military, had trained to take charge of the country!!

Some of the above story was released on official news channels and then all went silent, as far as this TELLING event was concerned!

In another occasion, US military officers were arrested by Iraqi officials (now US allies) in a car filled with bombs and dressed as ARABS.

Just about now, one begins to think about the real stories behind the car bombs going off in crowded market places and killing innocent women and children, doesn't one? The same ones that result in retaliations from the one sect or another, thus maintaining the divisions within the nation of Iraq and giving among other things, the US an excuse to expand its presence and giving her time to install her own Long TERM control mechanisms.

Of course, there is nothing new about the "Divide and Rule" doctrine, which goes back at least to the Roman times, and was used efficiently by the British Empire (which some people - who do not believe that a bunch of peasants could have defeated the most powerful military machine on the planet - claim that the US is still part of!).


instead of rebuilding after living under a dictator who tortured and killed everyone from political opponents to soccer players who performed badly.
Aren't you conveniently forgetting that Saddam Hussain, the dictator, was a staunch Western Allie and tortured and killed his own people, using many weapons, including the CHEMICAL ONES, supplied to him by the West?


Oh, and ruined his country in a stupid war with Iran
There is a good reason to believe that the then allie of the US was encouraged by the same country, to invade Iran, the enemy of the US. Yes, Iraqi people suffered from that war. The Iranian people suffered from that war.

So, who gained fromt the 10 year Iran, Iraq war? Oh yes, the US, Britain and other minor (in the food chain) allies who SOLD WEAPONS TO BOTH SIDES, in the slaughter and mayhem that claimed more than a million lives!

Boy, isn't it nice to be soldier in a nation that preaches "democracy", "justice", "freedom" and "human rights" ? LOL!



and openly defied a GLOBAL mandate regarding weapons inspections. A defiance that SH openly admitted was intentional.
Yet, he let enough weapons inspectors in who concluded that there were NO WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION IN IRAQ. Of course, one these weapon's inspectors who discredited that notion that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction, one David Kelly - a SENIOR UN inspector - was found dead, apparently he had started his day in a normal manner but, then thought, "wouldn't it be nice to commit suicide"....!!!


Man up and take responsibility, instead of blaming the US for everything.

It is not so much the US, but the Banking and Corporate Cartels, and many of their bosses sitting in Europe, who own the US, that choose your leaders/politicians etc. that are to blame.

The American population, including the military, are just innocent pawns, in a game that they have no hope of understanding,until they open their minds and think for themselves!

[Hardwork108]

The only difference is here we vote them out of office. There, they vote them out of life.

Don't kid yourself, you don't vote anyone in, nor out!

It is all decided for you by your country's elite, who seat back in the shadows, way above your heads and the heads of the utterly corrupt intellectual prostitutes you call politicians/leaders/Presidents!

[Drake]

Military officers as suicide bombers? REALLY?

That would be like Mullah Omar driving his own VBIED.

Then again, you'll believe anything if it means defending your dead tyrant friends. :D

Oh, and do yourself a favor and visit the UN website. Do a search of what other nations had to say about his violation of a pretty obvious resolution. There you'll see the horde of nations quick to condemn SH for failing to comply with inspectors.

[Hardwork108]

Military officers as suicide bombers? REALLY?
I did not say that they were suicide bombers. All they do is leave the cars in crowded places and then when the bomb goes off and kills innocent civilians, say in a Shiai area of town, the official militay sources tell the "journalists" that in was a rival Sunny muslim group, and it is taken from there.

It is called a "False Flag" operation, which I am sure you are familiar with the term.

Anyway, even official media reported what I referred to in my previous post - at least for a short while.




Then again, you'll believe anything if it means defending your dead tyrant friends. :D
I have no dead or alive tyrant friends. Believe it or not, I am genuinely good human being.


Oh, and do yourself a favor and visit the UN website.
Yes, the primary vehicle used to construct a dictatoria world government (The New World Order) - the United Nations, is going to have its website plastered with "truths"? LOL!


Do a search of what other nations had to say about his violation of a pretty obvious resolution.
Nations don't "say" anything - it is their POLITICIANS that say things, and I am afraid that most of those nations' politicians are bought and paid for, just like the ones in the West!


There you'll see the horde of nations quick to condemn SH for failing to comply with inspectors.
I prefer to listen to the Inspectors who did not find any evidence of Weapons of Mass Destruction, rather than to corrupt, bought and paid for politicians. I am sorry, I am kind of traditional that way.;)

Anyway, where are these Weapons of Mass Destruction?.....................

[Drake]

Good human beings don't come onto message boards insulting everyone's intelligence for not believing shoddy evidence, unrealistic scenarios, and crappy youtube clips from already debunked fringe lunatics.

Good human beings just practice their kung fu and STFU. :D

Guess I'm not good either using that second rubric, but at least I can look at myself in the mirror and accept it.

[Hardwork108]

Good human beings don't come onto message boards insulting everyone's intelligence for not believing shoddy evidence, unrealistic scenarios, and crappy youtube clips from already debunked fringe lunatics.

"Shoddy evidence"? You mean the ones presented for the Weapons of Mass Destruction in Iraq? Weapons that after over a million innocents dead - on all sides - have not been found?

What unrealistic scenarios? The one that shows the US to be a non-sovereign colony of what are ultimately European banking/corporate elites, that run and own your lives through the privately owned Federal Reserve, that dictates directly and indirectly all facets of your lives?

That you don't live in free and democratic country?

If you don't agree, then try this, find out who the share holders of the private banking cartel known as the Federal Reserve. It should be easy for you as you are an intelligence officer, see if you can manage, but I doubt it!;)


Good human beings just practice their kung fu and STFU. :D

If you had practiced you kung fu in all of its dimensions then your real world perception may have expanded to the point of realizing what kind of world you live in......


Guess I'm not good either using that second rubric, but at least I can look at myself in the mirror and accept it.
I look at the mirror every day and also sleep at nights, with no innocent blood on my hands!

[Syn7]

What is has happened in the beautiful city of Vancouver, once (or perhaps even now) said to be one of the best cities to live in the world, has happened in other great cities in the world.

You are not going to believe this as usual, but all of this decadence you see is by design, to weaken societies, family life and so on, so as to create stronger control mechanisms.....

why wouldnt i believe that? its rather obvious... where we disagree is on the who and the why, not so much with that what... what you see as one giant conspiracy by a few famillies i see as many similar ones perped by ruling clans all over the world. only since we have all started connecting in a truly global sense has any of this started to mash into eachother... it doesnt suprise me that some would mistake that overlay for one long drawn out conspiracy...

and vancouver is still the most beautiful major metro area in canada... it just all fell apart when we transitioned from a resource based society to a debt based system of imaginary gains and most profit reserved only for those who already have more than they need.

and of course its by design... most of what comes out of city hall is part of a greater plan, aside from the odd bandaid here and there and the ever so present and stupid proposals made around election time. nothing profound about that...

[Syn7]

Sooner or later those whiners are going to have to take responsibility for their actions. Last I checked, the insurgency in Iraq was what set things back. People blowing themselves and their countrymen up on a daily basis instead of rebuilding after living under a dictator who tortured and killed everyone from political opponents to soccer players who performed badly. Oh, and ruined his country in a stupid war with Iran and openly defied a GLOBAL mandate regarding weapons inspections. A defiance that SH openly admitted was intentional.

Man up and take responsibility, instead of blaming the US for everything.

if some other nation came over to the US and used military might to force their own ideas of what life should be like on you and yours wouldnt you fight back??? by any anmd all means available??? i know i would. maybe we are supposed to persecute and murder eachother as a means of population control? like war... back in the day, way more people died from wars and wghole towns were erased. that seemed to keep somewhat of a balance and population in check.... what if pushing our way of life on them ends to create an over populated under funded state that just withers away of disease and decay??? who are any of us to say otherwise???

now im not saying i believe all that, its just an example... my point is that just because we feel we live better doesnt mean we have the right to force others to live that way as well... its every iraqis god given right to exist in any backward state they wish...

[Drake]

if some other nation came over to the US and used military might to force their own ideas of what life should be like on you and yours wouldnt you fight back??? by any anmd all means available??? i know i would. maybe we are supposed to persecute and murder eachother as a means of population control? like war... back in the day, way more people died from wars and wghole towns were erased. that seemed to keep somewhat of a balance and population in check.... what if pushing our way of life on them ends to create an over populated under funded state that just withers away of disease and decay??? who are any of us to say otherwise???

now im not saying i believe all that, its just an example... my point is that just because we feel we live better doesnt mean we have the right to force others to live that way as well... its every iraqis god given right to exist in any backward state they wish...

They weren't fighting back. They were engaged in some horrific and brutal crimes against their own people. Don't paint them out to be freedom fighters, because they were no more freedom fighters than Mexican drug cartels upset because we were on their turf. Freedom fighters don't indiscriminately detonate themselves in the middle of busy markets.

We were just kicked out, peacefully, by their elected government. One of the few things that went right there.

[hskwarrior]

heavy D is dead!!!!!!! rip

[Syn7]

They weren't fighting back. They were engaged in some horrific and brutal crimes against their own people. Don't paint them out to be freedom fighters, because they were no more freedom fighters than Mexican drug cartels upset because we were on their turf. Freedom fighters don't indiscriminately detonate themselves in the middle of busy markets.

We were just kicked out, peacefully, by their elected government. One of the few things that went right there.

some are some arent...

kinda like how this protest is going over here... occupy vancouver... some junkie OD's now everyone there is a crack head apparently. truth is that homeless junkies were attracted by the smell of free food and somewhere to chill that isnt a back alley... the resistance is the same. peoples motivations are all over the board im sure...
im just saying, if somebody came into my back yard and tried to tell me how to live i wouldnt be very happy about it...

besides, morals are an affectation of perspective, not any sort of universal value...
i agree, life there wasnt nice for many people. but who are you to step in? what gives you the right to impose yourself on these people?

did it ever occur to any of you that these people will never embrace any value that isnt earned? its impossible to initiate rational dialogue with anyone about beliefs and concepts if they havent aquired them through their own experience and reasoning...


and when you leave, the vacuum will be violent... some will say thats reason to have stayed... but the simple truth is that these cats need to sort out their own affairs if they are ever to appreciate any new ways of life...

i dont apply that to all occupations... but most... there is no universal rule for this...

[David Jamieson]

Uh, I believe the Taliban started it which is what gives us the right to make attempts to defeat the enemy and take their stuff That's how the world works isn't it?.

I don't understand Iraq either though.

Do you think we should all be more forgiving? I think so too. It's probably cheaper as well.

carry on.

[Drake]

Uh, I believe the Taliban started it which is what gives us the right to make attempts to defeat the enemy and take their stuff That's how the world works isn't it?.

I don't understand Iraq either though.

Do you think we should all be more forgiving? I think so too. It's probably cheaper as well.

carry on.

I say it's time to go. If we could defeat a better trained, better equipped, better organized British army, sometimes without shoes, then these guys have no excuse, considering how much money, training, and equipment we've given them.

On a plus side, I watched an Afghan Colonel chew out an American Major because one of his guys came over here and accidentally broke the scanner. I'm pushing more and more for the guy to take over responsibility and sort of push us out of the way, and I guess he's responding. :D

[Syn7]

Uh, I believe the Taliban started it which is what gives us the right to make attempts to defeat the enemy and take their stuff That's how the world works isn't it?.

I don't understand Iraq either though.

Do you think we should all be more forgiving? I think so too. It's probably cheaper as well.

carry on.

much cheaper, no doubt... but that aside, forgiveness will only get you so far... sometimes it pays off, in more ways than one, to stick your boot on somebodys neck.

but yeah, we were talking iraq, not "the stan"... two completely different issues that just happen to be reletively close together. well, not really, but most americans prolly think they are neighbours... infact most americans dont even know theres a difference between persians and arabs... the ethnicities involved here are very complicated and more often than not they are completely over generalized giving one a *******ized version of an interpretation of certain narrow perspectives that were never on point anyways...

american understanding of pretty much everything outside their bubble reminds me of that game in kindergarten where you sit in a circle say a phrase in the ear of the cat next to you and we all have a good time hearing the final results that are almost always nothing like the truth, or in this case, the initial phrase...

but before you go and get ur panties in a knot coz i said 'american', dont worry, canadians are just as bad but in ever so slightly different ways...

[Syn7]

I say it's time to go. If we could defeat a better trained, better equipped, better organized British army, sometimes without shoes, then these guys have no excuse, considering how much money, training, and equipment we've given them.

On a plus side, I watched an Afghan Colonel chew out an American Major because one of his guys came over here and accidentally broke the scanner. I'm pushing more and more for the guy to take over responsibility and sort of push us out of the way, and I guess he's responding. :D

Word... if they cant do it, then they cant do it, and theres no point in continuing to throw money at it. either they will stand tall or not. we cant stay there forever, sooooo. time to go. like teaching ur kid to ride on two wheels. as scary as ity is, eventually u gotta let gfo of that seat and let em ride. after that its all on them, ur nothing more than a guide post at that point.

[David Jamieson]

cold steel pireces flesh
a moment of clarity:
death is not the end.

Cheater!!! that's a Japanese death poem.

[David Jamieson]

They seem to be big on dude rape.
weird.

[Syn7]

the most sexually oppressed cultures will always have the most sexual deviants... the numbers don't lie...

[David Jamieson]

the most sexually oppressed cultures will always have the most sexual deviants... the numbers don't lie...

Yeah funny how that works eh. Hegel was right!

I discussed this with a friend once who lived in the French part of our country.

Turns out all their swears are religious and all ours are sexual. why?
Because the Catholic church repressed the crap out of the french and the puritans repressed the crap out of the Brits. Hence all our invectives & epithets are sexual and theirs religious.

I am reading more about the Hegelian Dialectic. It would appear that this man knew something of the Human condition that people are having great difficulty coming to grips with and favouring division in society over unity.

P.S Julius Caesar was right, the mob does rule and the leaders do get eaten in teh end when they behave badly or rile the mob. Wait and see.

[Hardwork108]

I say it's time to go. If we could defeat a better trained, better equipped, better organized British army, sometimes without shoes

That is exactly when you should start questioning official history' s account of the War of "Independence". As Christmasy and "heroic" as the story happens to be.

Specially in due of the fact that the Founding Fathers were high level Freemasons, just like their opposing generals on the British side, who probably belonged to the same Lodges as they did. LOL

Research more into the "special relations" of the US and the UK. It is said that the PRIVATELY owned "Federal" Reserve's main shareholders are the banking dynasty of Rothschilds based in London (also France and Germany). That may be one of the reasons why one cannot legally ask (or at least get an answer) as to who the main shareholders are in this PRIVATELY owned banking cartel that has so much power over the government of the "free", USA and on the lives of its "free" people.

Lots of food for thought above...........

[Drake]

That is exactly when you should start questioning official history' s account of the War of "Independence". As Christmasy and "heroic" as the story happens to be.

Specially in due of the fact that the Founding Fathers were high level Freemasons, just like their opposing generals on the British side, who probably belonged to the same Lodges as they did. LOL

Research more into the "special relations" of the US and the UK. It is said that the PRIVATELY owned "Federal" Reserve's main shareholders are the banking dynasty of Rothschilds based in London (also France and Germany). That may be one of the reasons why one cannot legally ask (or at least get an answer) as to who the main shareholders are in this PRIVATELY owned banking cartel that has so much power over the government of the "free", USA and on the lives of its "free" people.

Lots of food for thought above...........

Not really. You just made up a story. I could do that. Yeah, check this out. As it turns out, George Washington was actually King George's half-brother, though it has been covered up by evil conspirators from Atalantis. Due to this, the British Empire feigned war, but that was only because they knew combustion engines were coming, as they had already secretly invented them at their Illuminati headquarters, and wished to refocus their efforts by going after the oil in the Middle East, which they had detected via ESP.


No, it's NOT food for thought. You just made it up and expect me to believe it.

[David Jamieson]

The war of independence fought by the French supporting the US over the British in the Americas.

here's the scenario.

George the 3rd was losing it from a variety of diseases, but mostly, he was drifting into madness.

The French HATED the British at the time and vice versa.

The Americas were friendly withe the French and Washington found a huge Ally with Lafayette. They conspired with others and so it began.

So, crazy king watched his domain crumble. This was somewhat rectified in 1812 on the Plains of Abraham and thus North America was fully divided into what it is now.

Freemasonry had more play in the building of the country as opposed to the fighting for it. And let's remember that the spirit of the times then was very very different from now.

whack conspiracy theories are not the surface to be scratching. Those are beneath that surface and often are just imaginary delusions. You should probably stop dissing masons, you are obviously completely ignorant of who they are and what they do, myself included.

It's just rude to badger on something you are ignorant of. That's all I gotta say.

[Hardwork108]

Not really. You just made up a story. I could do that. Yeah, check this out. As it turns out, George Washington was actually King George's half-brother, though it has been covered up by evil conspirators from Atalantis. Due to this, the British Empire feigned war, but that was only because they knew combustion engines were coming, as they had already secretly invented them at their Illuminati headquarters, and wished to refocus their efforts by going after the oil in the Middle East, which they had detected via ESP.


No, it's NOT food for thought. You just made it up and expect me to believe it.

Do you really think that I sat down and made up what I posted previously???? LOL

Also, you seem to mock the idea that the war in Iraq was about oil and not because GW Bush spent sleepless nights worrying about Saddam's mis treatment of his people, nor about invisible weapons of mass destruction, which were not found during 10 years of occupation of that country and nor since the war ended in that country.....LOL

By the way, did you not know that key generals on both sides of the War of "Independence" were high level Freemasons, who probably belonged to the same lodges.

Hey Jamieson, if you are reading this, doesn't loyalty to the Brotherhood take precedence over even one's family if one is a 33 degree freemason - honest question David.

[Hardwork108]

They seem to be big on dude rape.
weird.
You should pay a visit to the Uk.....LOL

[Drake]

Do you really think that I sat down and made up what I posted previously???? LOL

Also, you seem to mock the idea that the war in Iraq was about oil and not because GW Bush spent sleepless nights worrying about Saddam's mis treatment of his people, nor about invisible weapons of mass destruction, which were not found during 10 years of occupation of that country and nor since the war ended in that country.....LOL

By the way, did you not know that key generals on both sides of the War of "Independence" were high level Freemasons, who probably belonged to the same lodges.

Hey Jamieson, if you are reading this, doesn't loyalty to the Brotherhood take precedence over even one's family if one is a 33 degree freemason - honest question David.

Nope. I think someone else made it up, and you fell for it, hook, line, and sinker.

[Hardwork108]

Nope. I think someone else made it up, and you fell for it, hook, line, and sinker.

It must have been the same guys who "made up" the story that the invasion of Iraq had nothing to do with supposed non-existant Weapons of Mass Destruction, nor Saddam´s human rights violations, but that it was about OIL and the fact that he would not play ball with the West.

The same guys must also have made up the idea of US (and Western) meddling in Latin American countries, through removal of Democratically elected governments by Coup d´etas and murder and their replacement by murderous dictatorships, which then the West itself hypocritically criticised years later when presumably their use ran out. By the way, what I have said has come out of the realm of conspiracy "theory" and is part of official history now.

Then you have the official version of the 9-11 tragedy. Believe me, until hearing the official explanations, it was the bible and other world religions´books that were in my top ten baloney list, but I guess if anyone was going to beat them in the BS department,it would have been the G.W.Bush administration......LOL!

To cut a long story short, when you are afraid to open your mind or if you have an agenda. Anything that contradicts your view, must be made up and therefore should be discredited......lol

[Drake]

It must have been the same guys who "made up" the story that the invasion of Iraq had nothing to do with supposed non-existant Weapons of Mass Destruction, nor Saddam´s human rights violations, but that it was about OIL and the fact that he would not play ball with the West.

The same guys must also have made up the idea of US (and Western) meddling in Latin American countries, through removal of Democratically elected governments by Coup d´etas and murder and their replacement by murderous dictatorships, which then the West itself hypocritically criticised years later when presumably their use ran out. By the way, what I have said has come out of the realm of conspiracy "theory" and is part of official history now.

Then you have the official version of the 9-11 tragedy. Believe me, until hearing the official explanations, it was the bible and other world religions´books that were in my top ten baloney list, but I guess if anyone was going to beat them in the BS department,it would have been the G.W.Bush administration......LOL!

To cut a long story short, when you are afraid to open your mind or if you have an agenda. Anything that contradicts your view, must be made up and therefore should be discredited......lol

Everything about the WMDs have been discussed. It's common knowledge that Saddam was bluffing, George Tenet was incompetent, and that our intel indicated a desire, not a capability.

But you choose to follow a ficticious, unconfirmed fantasy tale made up by a paranoid schizophrenic who thinks the gov't is ran by aliens.

You aren't even close minded. You are shut-minded.

[Hardwork108]

Everything about the WMDs have been discussed.
Not everything, apparently. There remains the plain truth that is infront of everyone's noses......


It's common knowledge that Saddam was bluffing,
Even if that was true. He was bluffing from within a country that was occupied for TEN years by technologically and militarily most advance countries on the planet.

The UN investigators had not found any weapons. One of them even came out and said that claims of WMDs had been exaggerated to justify the war with Iraq. Of course, soon after, that person, a SENIOR UN weapons inspector decided to one sunny day to go for a walk and commit "suicide".....LOL!

I guess that shut up the other UN inspectors from speaking out........



George Tenet was incompetent, and that our intel indicated a desire, not a capability.

Hey, if you are going to bomb everyone who has the "desire", then you better start with most of Europe and then work your way to the Far East.....LOL!


But you choose to follow a ficticious, unconfirmed fantasy tale made up by a paranoid schizophrenic who thinks the gov't is ran by aliens.
:confused:

Here is some "fiction" for you:

http://www.salon.com/2007/09/06/bush_wmd/


You aren't even close minded. You are shut-minded.
I see the truth. You are indoctrinated, and even more so than the average Joe, because that is how it is done, the military forces that protect the system need to be kept in line with extra brainwashing, otherwise the system would collapse.....

Worse of all, no matter what your personal opinions of me, I actually think that you are a good person, but indoctrination, wether it is political, religious, etc. is capable of turning any good man into a monster.....

[Drake]

How are you NOT indoctrinated? I've been on the ground both in Iraq and Afghanistan. I've actually handled the intel. You go off web clips. Who is more informed here?

You aren't even thinking critically...you just took what someone on the internet said and ran with it. That makes you especially gullible.

[Syn7]

They weren't fighting back. They were engaged in some horrific and brutal crimes against their own people. Don't paint them out to be freedom fighters, because they were no more freedom fighters than Mexican drug cartels upset because we were on their turf. Freedom fighters don't indiscriminately detonate themselves in the middle of busy markets.

We were just kicked out, peacefully, by their elected government. One of the few things that went right there.

you cant paint them all with one brush man... of course many crooks took advantage of the situation to persue whatever their agendas were. but alot of the people who picked up arm,s did so because they fealt threatened... you arent going to really deny that are you? come on... you're an intelligence officer arent you? if i can work that out just by talking and listening, surely you know its the truth. i can see how some outfits could aquire tunnel vision in their efforts to do what was originally well intended, im sure, but end up seeing what they wanna see. that sh1t is just human nature. you dont need to study the conflict to know that. recognize.

[Syn7]

Do you really think that I sat down and made up what I posted previously???? LOL

Also, you seem to mock the idea that the war in Iraq was about oil and not because GW Bush spent sleepless nights worrying about Saddam's mis treatment of his people, nor about invisible weapons of mass destruction, which were not found during 10 years of occupation of that country and nor since the war ended in that country.....LOL

By the way, did you not know that key generals on both sides of the War of "Independence" were high level Freemasons, who probably belonged to the same lodges.

Hey Jamieson, if you are reading this, doesn't loyalty to the Brotherhood take precedence over even one's family if one is a 33 degree freemason - honest question David.

see, that right there is the key phrase, and exposes you for what you are... you make a factual statement them back that sh1t up with probably and maybe or a "we dont know cause they arent transparent" or some bullsh1t like that...

its not unheard of for one lodge to go head to head with another... and quite frankly, when your very life and life goals are at stake you tend to do what you gotta do. and if that means taking arms to a brother, then so be it. look at the civil war. family squabbles can be deadly as fukc...

so no man, that doesnt prove anything... all you ever show is either the obvious, or circumstantial evidence... and links to radio shows, of course...

mans most basic nature is to shelter his fam, you fukcin' kidding me?

[Hardwork108]

How are you NOT indoctrinated?
I am NOT indoctrinated because my mind is always open. I look and I see!

I look at war and mayhem. Then I look at the reasons given to justify this constant mass-murder. Then I LOOK at the money trail!!!!

The reasons given for these wars never correlate with the money trail (who benefits)....NEVER!

This in itself opens a huge can of worms that the official sources brush aside as "conspiracy theory", and they would, wouldn't they, as the money trail always leads to them or more accurately to their corporate/banking masters!!!



I've been on the ground both in Iraq and Afghanistan.
That would explain why you don't see the woods for the trees......


I've actually handled the intel.

"Intelligence" reports, are just like those things known as religious books, in that they are written by other human beings who want to influence your way of thinking.

Wasn't it through "intelligence report" that most of the planet concluded that the 9-11 planes were hijacked by MIDDLE CLASS, ALCOHOL DRINKING, STRIP CLUB FREQUENTING, Arabs, who carried non-flamable passports???? LOL,LOL,LOL,..........some fanatics, eh?

The Gaza strip should be full of such suicide bombers. Hey, if you have some extra cash lets get together and invest in strip club in the occupied territories. We could make a killing (no pun intended).....LOL!

Wasn't it supposed intelligence reports that gave base to the theory of the Weapons of Mass Destruction in Iraq???? LOL,LOL,LOL


You go off web clips. Who is more informed here?

Comparing your world view based no doubt largely on pieces of paper passed down to you by god know who, and what I see happening in the world, with my own eyes, then I will stick to the "web clips", as well as books and the little that is exposed through official media (no doubt through accidents)....


You aren't even thinking critically...you just took what someone on the internet said and ran with it. That makes you especially gullible.

Of course, I am thinking critical. I follow the money trail and it ALWAYS leads to the same place......ALWAYS!

You try it. Forget my clips and other pieces of uncomfortable info. Just sit down and look at the war in Iraq and Afghanistan, as well as the general "wars" against 'terroristm' (lol), Global Warming, Drugs, Epidemics, etc. See where the money trail leads. Then see the global political outcome of all these wars, that is its effect on the centralization of decision making (read, power).

It is an easy exercise.

If you want to go further, then you can look into the relationship of the above phenomenon with organizations such as the Council of Foreign Relations, the Trilateral Commission (please, please, please, check out who founded these organizations) and the Royal Institute of International Affairs in the UK.

If you don't want to look beyond your "intel" reports then that is fine too, but please don't mock those who have open and inquisitive minds and who do not believe all the official cr@p fed to us through a controlled new media.

[Drake]

Believe the intel reports? DUDE... I helped WRITE them. I saw the INTEL. The imagery, and the crapload of stuff I can't discuss here. Raw data... no input, no bias. Just the ground truth.

You get youtube clips, already clipped, snipped, loaded with phony dramatism and music to sucker you in.

I saw the data. You see the internet frauds.

What does snake oil taste like? I'm curious.

[Hardwork108]

see, that right there is the key phrase, and exposes you for what you are... you make a factual statement them back that sh1t up with probably and maybe or a "we dont know cause they arent transparent" or some bullsh1t like that..

I said "probably" because logic would dictate it, as I don't think that the Apache Indians had any Masonic lodges at that period.....LOL!

I could almost swear that I read that they belonged to the same lodges, but as I don't remember where, I said "probably", so as to stay on the safe side. I might just try and look up that info....



its not unheard of for one lodge to go head to head with another...

The correct term for the above phenomenon is, "controlled opposition". ;)

You can see this in wars throughout history, as well as political squabbles within "Democratic" nations such as the USA.


and quite frankly, when your very life and life goals are at stake you tend to do what you gotta do. and if that means taking arms to a brother, then so be it.

You will find that whenever wars are needed, the otherwise neutral public (yes, they are the ones who actually go and fight and die!) are presented with "threats" to their lives, safety, etc. Have you heard of something called the terrorist "threat". Don't you shudder at the thought of bumping into a drunk Arab outside a strip club? LOL!


look at the civil war. family squabbles can be deadly as fukc...
I would not put family squabbles (as deadly as their potential may be), in the same basket as WARS, because the latter are usually manipulated by presenting the usual "threat" to the population's well being and then use GROUP PSYCHOLOGY to de the rest. While the elite politicians and their masters pull the strings to achieve their agendas, while laughing all the way to the bank ( which the latter usually own)!


so no man, that doesnt prove anything... all you ever show is either the obvious, or circumstantial evidence... and links to radio shows, of course...

I know it must be difficult for you, Drake and others to accept that Canada and the US are still British colonies, controlled no so much by the "British", but the financial elite in the City of London, which actually is not really part of the rest of the UK (think in line of the Vatican concept).

Who controls the City of London? Think, old Banking Families and Corporate ones, often linke to European royalty (bloodlines).


mans most basic nature is to shelter his fam, you fukcin' kidding me?

And the people in control have used man's basic nature to enslave him for centuries, by manipulating wars, revolutions and mayhem, to divide, control and rule!

So, snap out of it!

[Hardwork108]

Believe the intel reports? DUDE... I helped WRITE them. I saw the INTEL. The imagery, and the crapload of stuff I can't discuss here. Raw data... no input, no bias. Just the ground truth.

You get youtube clips, already clipped, snipped, loaded with phony dramatism and music to sucker you in.

I saw the data. You see the internet frauds.

What does snake oil taste like? I'm curious.

Yet still, Intelligence reports were used to justify, unjust wars. Also, we were told that alcohol drinking, forgetful (they left Korans everywhere they went...LOL) middle class Arabs hijacked planes and smashed them into two buildings that then eventually collapsed into their own foot prints..... (and we can't forget the third building that also collapsed from "symphathy pains"...LOL).

We reasons given and "evidence" provided, some of these intel reports are everything, but INTELLIGENT! LOL!

[Drake]

Easy to say in hindsight. Must be nice never having to make any decisions, but criticizing those of us who have make the hard calls. Or making up stories to fit your overactive imagination.

[Hardwork108]

Easy to say in hindsight. Must be nice never having to make any decisions, but criticizing those of us who have make the hard calls. Or making up stories to fit your overactive imagination.

Hard Calls?

Like making up "terrorist" threats for your masters?

Like "helping" with false intelligence reports based on questionable "evidence" fed to you by others that are way above your head in the intelligence food chain?

Yes, we are still looking for the Weapons of Mass Destruction.

We are still wondering about why such a huge threat like the (made up) Al Quaeda will send a mentally challenged individual to set his underwear on fire on a passanger plane?

We are also wondering why such a great threat to our freedom could send someone to use a mediocre, badly made (police reports confirm this), home made bomb, that did not even explode in Times Square......LOL

Yes, Al Quaeda do sound like the most evil and powerful organization in the world.....LOL!


So, come on, there is nothing imaginary about who benefits from wars. All you do is blow away the smoke screen (the media bla, bla; the politicians' bla, bla, etc.) and you it is all infront of your nose.......follow the money and it will always lid to the same place, and that place is not in the mountains of Afghanistan, nor in the deserts of Iraq. It is much closer to home, in London, Washington, Switzerland and other members of this "cartel".;)

[Drake]

So now I am making stuff up? Let me get this straight... you think I am fabricating reports now, because your argument that I was being deceived can't be true, because I was seeing everything firsthand? Now I'm TeH DEBbIL??

And this is because the internet told you?

....

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

No really.. I'm done now...

Man, those scam artists really got you by the balls...

[rett]

If the Iraq war was "about the oil" it was the most expensive oil ever in the history of the world.

Seriously, that "about the oil" argument is just plain silly. His oil was for sale. He'd gladly have sold more, except that the US pushed for UN sanctions against him. The US could have bought all the oil they wanted for a tiny fraction of what the war cost.

If the US really just wanted Saddam's oil they could have made him an ally. Easy enough done. Just ignore his bad human rights track record, flatter him with cash and technology, arm him and use him to menace Iran.

IMO if there's something sinister or strategic about the Iraq war that isn't at face value it's because it's a useful wedge between two big enemies, Iran and Syria. A very good square to turn blue on the chessboard. And a perk could just have been to drum up business for cronies in the private security contractors business. They made out very well, recruiting people who'd already been highly trained at taxpayer expense.

[bawang]

If the Iraq war was "about the oil" it was the most expensive oil ever in the history of the world.

Seriously, that "about the oil" argument is just plain silly. His oil was for sale. He'd gladly have sold more, except that the US pushed for UN sanctions against him. The US could have bought all the oil they wanted for a tiny fraction of what the war cost.

If the US really just wanted Saddam's oil they could have made him an ally. Easy enough done. Just ignore his bad human rights track record, flatter him with cash and technology, arm him and use him to menace Iran.

IMO if there's something sinister or strategic about the Iraq war that isn't at face value it's because it's a useful wedge between two big enemies, Iran and Syria. A very good square to turn blue on the chessboard. And a perk could just have been to drum up business for cronies in the private security contractors business. They made out very well, recruiting people who'd already been highly trained at taxpayer expense.
iraq war was about the oil.

[David Jamieson]

iraq war was about the oil.

Yes, and control of the region for military purposes.
All middle eastern wars are about energy control.

People of the west can't make the connection between filling up their car, getting the oil change and all the stuff they use that is petrol based and what happens in the countries that produce that product.

[rett]

I reiterate. The US could have bought the oil for a fraction of what the war cost.

In fact, even after winning the war, the US still didn't take the oil. It's for sale on the global market.

Really lame strategy, attacking a country "for the oil" and not getting any. Not exactly a rapacious approach. But hey, let the leftie cliches rain down.

[David Jamieson]

I reiterate. The US could have bought the oil for a fraction of what the war cost.

In fact, even after winning the war, the US still didn't take the oil. It's for sale on the global market.

Really lame strategy, attacking a country "for the oil" and not getting any. Not exactly a rapacious approach. But hey, let the leftie cliches rain down.

Maybe so (not likely, but maybe), but then, how to validate the military congressional industrial complex and it's huge suck on the american taxpayer if you don't have any wars going on?

I mean who the heck wants to fund billions and billions on a military force that doesn't get used much?

Oil is needed. war is required. they are both components of the american economy.
Look how america has prospered merely through making war on others in the name of ideology or what not.

99% of all congressional regions have some sort of company that produces some product or another for the military. what congressman in his right mind is going to dress down any funding that means jobs in his/her district? Oh that's right, NONE OF THEM. lol

[rett]

Oil is needed. war is required. they are both components of the american economy.
Look how america has prospered merely through making war on others in the name of ideology or what not.

Maybe so, but this doesn't seem to fit the Iraq war which didn't actually get any oil and which has nearly bankrupted the US.

I think if you want to look for sinister motivations (or "perks" alongside what I believe are the real big reasons) you have to go to a more petty level: putting tax money in the pockets of Bush&Co's private friends, the good of the country be danged.


what congressman in his right mind is going to dress down any funding that means jobs in his/her district? Oh that's right, NONE OF THEM. lol

The Iraq war was an executive decision, not a congressional budget fight.

I'm not saying your points lack merit in general, just that they don't seem to fit the last decade very well. The USA is not the animal it once was. I want the old USA back. In fact, I wish the world had frozen in the 70s, except for the smoking. Typewriters and karate-afros. That's life.

[Drake]

Maybe so (not likely, but maybe), but then, how to validate the military congressional industrial complex and it's huge suck on the american taxpayer if you don't have any wars going on?

I mean who the heck wants to fund billions and billions on a military force that doesn't get used much?

Oil is needed. war is required. they are both components of the american economy.
Look how america has prospered merely through making war on others in the name of ideology or what not.

99% of all congressional regions have some sort of company that produces some product or another for the military. what congressman in his right mind is going to dress down any funding that means jobs in his/her district? Oh that's right, NONE OF THEM. lol

Where I come from, they call that speculation.

And we've never prospered from war. That is a myth. In fact, wars have historically almost bankrupted us on several occasions. Just because factories are working full throttle to build war machines does not mean there is a profit to be made. It's usually the opposite. This is basic economic history. I expect better from you.

We came out ahead in WWII because we were one of the few places in the world that hadn't been ravaged by war. The financial toll on us was immense, though.

[David Jamieson]

Where I come from, they call that speculation.

And we've never prospered from war. That is a myth. In fact, wars have historically almost bankrupted us on several occasions. Just because factories are working full throttle to build war machines does not mean there is a profit to be made. It's usually the opposite. This is basic economic history. I expect better from you.

We came out ahead in WWII because we were one of the few places in the world that hadn't been ravaged by war. The financial toll on us was immense, though.



Canada came out ahead after WW2 as well as did...well, pretty much the entire western hemisphere.

Wars have been the constant in the history of america from the get go.

one missile = almost one million bucks. Use it and you have to replace it. replacing it means quite a few people get money and jobs to do that in the states.

all the bullets, all the guns, all the bombs, all the missiles, all the vehicles, planes, tech etc. Those don't get outsourced to other countries now do they? (ok, so maybe a nato member might sell you a couple of items now and then)

I rest my case and it is now beyond speculation. And to add to that, just to close the loop:

List of Wars with American involvement since the earliest years of it's formations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_United_States)

It seems like the 20's and 30's might have been a little quiet, but, they left out some stuff in that decade or have not completed the list fully.

[rett]

Canada came out ahead after WW2

So did Sweden. And Sweden didn't fight. It was its position of having intact industry that gave it the edge (just as with the US and Canada). Germany ended up doing well thanks to massive US aid money.


one missile = almost one million bucks. Use it and you have to replace it. replacing it means quite a few people get money and jobs to do that in the states.

It's still a net loss. Your argument is basically seeing the armament industry as some kind of Keynesian welfare stimulus. (not surprising) But that doesn't work in the long run. Unless you get a huge payback for those missiles, it's not worth it for the country as a whole or most of the people in it.

Of course there are some economists who think it would be good for the western world to arm itself against alien invasion. Just spend public money on anything useless and bananas will rain down from heaven...:rolleyes:

[Drake]

Canada came out ahead after WW2 as well as did...well, pretty much the entire western hemisphere.

Wars have been the constant in the history of america from the get go.

one missile = almost one million bucks. Use it and you have to replace it. replacing it means quite a few people get money and jobs to do that in the states.

all the bullets, all the guns, all the bombs, all the missiles, all the vehicles, planes, tech etc. Those don't get outsourced to other countries now do they? (ok, so maybe a nato member might sell you a couple of items now and then)

I rest my case and it is now beyond speculation. And to add to that, just to close the loop:

List of Wars with American involvement since the earliest years of it's formations (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_United_States)

It seems like the 20's and 30's might have been a little quiet, but, they left out some stuff in that decade or have not completed the list fully.

Using that ridiculous math, you are saying that if we just spent every last dollar we had on missiles, we'd enter a financial utopia economically? Yeah, you certainly do rest your case.

Again, every single history and economics/business course I have ever taken, and I have taken MANY, at the undergraduate, graduate, and doctoral level have ALWAYS cited wars as being inhibitors to economic growth.

[David Jamieson]

Using that ridiculous math, you are saying that if we just spent every last dollar we had on missiles, we'd enter a financial utopia economically? Yeah, you certainly do rest your case.

Again, every single history and economics/business course I have ever taken, and I have taken MANY, at the undergraduate, graduate, and doctoral level have ALWAYS cited wars as being inhibitors to economic growth.

lol. I never said the American system made any sense or would work, I'm just pointing out how it actually functions when it comes to making all those things that are needed for making war.

a debt economy is based on revenue generation.
keep shooting people and you need to keep making bullets and the revenue wheel goes round and round.

Truth is, the american military budget is close to 3x the size of all of Europe's combined annually! Why? because that's America's loss leader business plan!

I guess. I don't know why it's like that, but it is like that.

[Drake]

lol. I never said the American system made any sense or would work, I'm just pointing out how it actually functions when it comes to making all those things that are needed for making war.

a debt economy is based on revenue generation.
keep shooting people and you need to keep making bullets and the revenue wheel goes round and round.

Truth is, the american military budget is close to 3x the size of all of Europe's combined annually! Why? because that's America's loss leader business plan!

I guess. I don't know why it's like that, but it is like that.

The military industrial complex is poison to the US economy. It only brings jobs by draining our tax revenues, which is inefficient.

Think about it... we bankrupted the USSR by forcing them into a competition they were not equipped to win.

[David Jamieson]

The military industrial complex is poison to the US economy. It only brings jobs by draining our tax revenues, which is inefficient.

Think about it... we bankrupted the USSR by forcing them into a competition they were not equipped to win.


yes it is poisonous and toxic to the economy. I believe Eisenhower pointed that out to no avail almost 50 years ago!

another poisonous part is the corporate lobby system that is used to grease politicians.

It's gone astray in the last 48 yrs. considerably. I mean, it's better here than most places, but still, needs work, needs refinement and needs to reign in the greedy buggers who mess it up and administer defenestration to that thinking pronto.

[Syn7]

believe the intel reports? Dude... I helped write them. I saw the intel. The imagery, and the crapload of stuff i can't discuss here. Raw data... No input, no bias. Just the ground truth.

You get youtube clips, already clipped, snipped, loaded with phony dramatism and music to sucker you in.

I saw the data. You see the internet frauds.

What does snake oil taste like? I'm curious.

booyaaakkaaa!!!! Blooooooodclot!

[Syn7]

I said "probably" because logic would dictate it, as I don't think that the Apache Indians had any Masonic lodges at that period.....LOL!

I could almost swear that I read that they belonged to the same lodges, but as I don't remember where, I said "probably", so as to stay on the safe side. I might just try and look up that info....




The correct term for the above phenomenon is, "controlled opposition". ;)

You can see this in wars throughout history, as well as political squabbles within "Democratic" nations such as the USA.



You will find that whenever wars are needed, the otherwise neutral public (yes, they are the ones who actually go and fight and die!) are presented with "threats" to their lives, safety, etc. Have you heard of something called the terrorist "threat". Don't you shudder at the thought of bumping into a drunk Arab outside a strip club? LOL!


I would not put family squabbles (as deadly as their potential may be), in the same basket as WARS, because the latter are usually manipulated by presenting the usual "threat" to the population's well being and then use GROUP PSYCHOLOGY to de the rest. While the elite politicians and their masters pull the strings to achieve their agendas, while laughing all the way to the bank ( which the latter usually own)!



I know it must be difficult for you, Drake and others to accept that Canada and the US are still British colonies, controlled no so much by the "British", but the financial elite in the City of London, which actually is not really part of the rest of the UK (think in line of the Vatican concept).

Who controls the City of London? Think, old Banking Families and Corporate ones, often linke to European royalty (bloodlines).



And the people in control have used man's basic nature to enslave him for centuries, by manipulating wars, revolutions and mayhem, to divide, control and rule!

So, snap out of it!

WOW. you didnt say anything there that you havent said over and over and over again... if you repeat sh1t long enough, cats will believe it. but all youre doing is swaying yourself coz nobody reads ur sh1t... a quick scan at best. it gets so old reading the same argument over and over without ever seeing anything other than bias, opinion and heresay.

now you'll call me an enslaved robot. then i'll come back and tell you what i really believe then you will say "well atleast you arent totally brainwashed and know some things"
but fukc it, lets skip all that, u bore me... this is all you get. ina few eeks maybe i'll find time to be bothered to give u another 40 seconds of my life. but at this point, the price is too high...

[Hardwork108]

WOW. you didnt say anything there that you havent said over and over and over again... if you repeat sh1t long enough, cats will believe it. but all youre doing is swaying yourself coz nobody reads ur sh1t... a quick scan at best. it gets so old reading the same argument over and over without ever seeing anything other than bias, opinion and heresay.

now you'll call me an enslaved robot. then i'll come back and tell you what i really believe then you will say "well atleast you arent totally brainwashed and know some things"
but fukc it, lets skip all that, u bore me... this is all you get. ina few eeks maybe i'll find time to be bothered to give u another 40 seconds of my life. but at this point, the price is too high...

When one deals with rather complicated, as well as "uncomfortable" truths, then one must sometimes repeat the facts until they "sink in" so to speak. I believe that 40 seconds of your life which results in you leaving a conversation as better informed, hence, dare I say, more intelligent (oh boy, I know I am going to regret using the "i" word in this forum....LOL) person, is a 40 seconds well spent.

So, you should thank me, because being the writer of the material, it takes me a lot longer to type it than it does for you to read it. :p

[Syn7]

you dont listen to anyone here, yet you advocate listening to you so we can know the truth? your ego is right outta control man. you dont know anything. you suspect. but you dont know. fukc off with that sh1t.

[Hardwork108]

you dont listen to anyone here, yet you advocate listening to you so we can know the truth? your ego is right outta control man. you dont know anything. you suspect. but you dont know. fukc off with that sh1t.

I KNOW what I am talking about, you are the one who "suspects", that is why you are only able to provide opinions!


PS. Stop it with the four letter word swearing, as it counteracts your rare sensible points. ;)

[Dragonzbane76]

So, you should thank me, because being the writer of the material, it takes me a lot longer to type it than it does for you to read it.


Honestly, why do you write what you do if us dumb sh!ts won't listen? go to the crack pot forums if you want someone to believe you. Your not going to change anyones opinions.

[Hardwork108]

Honestly, why do you write what you do if us dumb sh!ts won't listen?
Because dumb sh!ts like you need to be given the chance to see what is actually happening in the real world, and also because the intelligent people of this world already know the deal.



go to the crack pot forums if you want someone to believe you. Your not going to change anyones opinions.

Unfortunately, people like you are turning this very forum into a crack pot one, by entering threads whose subject matter is way above their heads, without contributing ziltch.

Perhaps it is the likes of you who should go to other forums that discuss the Power Rangers or something as mindless, where you can actually contribute to the subject matter, without bringing irrelevant personal issues into the conversations?

Good luck with that! :)

[Drake]

Youtube is a far cry from the real world...

[Hardwork108]

Youtube is a far cry from the real world...

They would probably be, if they'd made their own documentaries. Youtube is a medium, there is a lot of valid stuff posted there, there are also wack job things, too. When one watches things with an open mind, then one can better tell the cr@p from the legit research.

Also, as you know, a lot of "official" version documentaries and news reports appear on Youtube. Does that fact make them any less official? Of course, not!

And again, as we speak, there are multiple wars going on all over the planet. A lot of them in mineral rich regions of the world. Who benefits? In whose hands do those minerals eventually end in? Who supplies the arms and therefore profits from these conflicts? Who ends up reconstructing in the aftermath of this death and destructions? Who finances such wars by lending money and then charging a healthy interest for the decades to come?

If you analyze those questions carefully, then you will see that the answers lie closer to home than in the caves in Afghanistan or the deserts of Iraq, and no Youtube posted documentaries needed either.

[Drake]

The only thing worth taking out of here, the Chinese already bought out. We will NEVER make any money off of Afghanistan.

And Iraq never paid for itself, either.

[Hardwork108]

The only thing worth taking out of here, the Chinese already bought out. We will NEVER make any money off of Afghanistan.

It seems that the poppy fields are having infinitely bigger harvests than they were when the Taliban were in charge. I wonder where all of those drugs end up, eh? I wonder who is protecting the drug growers? I wonder who is shipping all the heroin out of a militarily controlled invaded (by the US and Allies) country?

The money from Afghanistan is being made as we speak, through the illegal drugs trade. I hope you would not argue that the US, that has just recently been responsible for around a million deaths in the Middle East, and a country that openly sells arms all over the world, is going to have moral issues against trading in narcotics?

Of course, the arms companies made a killing out of the war as well, as they always do whenever and wherever there are war and mayhem. I am not sure about the construction companies contracted to rebuild Afghanistan though, but i assume that they are also Western based businesses.

As for Iraq. Replace the control of the heroin resources, with those of Oil, and add the same arms and construction companies, then you have the same story.

I almost forgot the banks, who in their kindness will be lending money to these countries for their reconstruction projects. So, that means outflow of cash from the region in the form of interest payments into the pockets of the same bankers who own the governments (their intelligence and military agencies included) that invaded these regions in their "War against FANTASY terrorsts" and to spread "Democracy, justice and freedom".....LOL!



And Iraq never paid for itself, either.
It probably never paid the American people, but it more than paid for those who own the private banking cartels (the Federal Reserve included), that run the US as well as the arms and construction companies who gained billions out of the whole scam.

What you and others don't see, is the usual what did I gain from this war and the so called profits, angle. Well, you would be right, the man in the street almost never gains from these mass-murders and pilaging, except during occasions when wars have direct and positive effect on the economy, whereby, he, the man in the street may get more job opportunities, etc. However, that is not by design. The real design is to put as much money and wealth possible into the pockets of the elite families that have been running the Western Hemisphere for centuries.

Unless, you believe that the arms manufacturers, etc, together with the bankers did not make a dime from these wars, then you should be agreeing with me. If you do agree with me, at least on this, then your next question should be, who are the major owners of these conglamorates and what is their relationship with your "elected" (the word "elected" was used as a joke, by the way), leaders?

While you are at it, find out who are the share holders of the PRIVATELY owned Federal Reserve? Why doesn't the US government admit openly that the Fed is privately owned? Ask why are the names of its shareholders withheld in a supposedly free country? Why can the Fed print money to finance wars and save troubled companies owned by the elite, but not do the same for homeless Americans, including the ones who are going hungry?

There are a lot of questions that those living in the "free" world, should be asking, and whatever the answer, you will never know, until you ask.

Sorry for long post.

[Shǎguā]

I KNOW what I am talking about, you are the one who "suspects", that is why you are only able to provide opinions!


Ok there, Mr. Assume.

[Hardwork108]

Ok there, Mr. Assume.
It is highly possible that KANSUKE is back with us again...........

[Dragonzbane76]

Because dumb sh!ts like you need to be given the chance to see what is actually happening in the real world, and also because the intelligent people of this world already know the deal.

Maybe we don't want your dogma. Maybe everyone is happy in there own little world.


Unfortunately, people like you are turning this very forum into a crack pot one, by entering threads whose subject matter is way above their heads, without contributing ziltch.

I'm not the one injecting my personal war upon everyone else. Your the one with the crusade and chip on there shoulder.

[Hardwork108]

Maybe we don't want your dogma.

The "dogma" is all yours and here is the PROOF below:


Maybe everyone is happy in there own little world.
LOL, JUST LOL!



I'm not the one injecting my personal war upon everyone else. Your the one with the crusade and chip on there shoulder.
Wait a minute. You stalk me by entering threads to respond or react to my posts in your usual demeaning, but as always clueless manner, time after time; week after week and day after day, and then you dare accuse me of "injecting" a "personal war"? Or having a chip on my shoulder? I mean even other people have noticed and commented on your obsessive behavior! LOL!

Yes, you are right, it seems that Mr "Everyone" is happy in his own small world.........! LOL!

[Drake]

HW... let me ask you a simple question. What makes you so sure those youtube clips are right? How do you KNOW you aren't being bamboozled? Have you confirmed any of this by conducting your own trips and investigations outside of the internet?

Simply finding others who believe in the same lie isn't confirmation, either.

[Dragonzbane76]

I comment on many threads your not that special. Well maybe in your short bus kind of way you are. What I was commenting on was your personal vendetta bringing the masses into the "know".

[Hardwork108]

I comment on many threads your not that special.
Oh, come on, even other members here have noticed your constant stalking behavior. LOL!


Well maybe in your short bus kind of way you are.
We are all special persons, but perhaps you Dragonzbane, can be classified a special needs one.....LOL!


What I was commenting on was your personal vendetta bringing the masses into the "know".

There is no vendetta here. It is a matter of intelligent discussion regarding controvertial and many times complex subject matters.

By the way, the appearance of the word "complex" in my post, should be a cue for you to high tail it out of here to some Mickey Mouse forum where you can discuss your favorite Disney cartoon characters, as in your recent posts you have not contributed anything to the discussion at hand, besides your usual out of touch and smug remarks!

[Drake]

Oh, come on, even other members here have noticed your constant stalking behavior. LOL!


We are all special persons, but perhaps you Dragonzbane, can be classified a special needs one.....LOL!



There is no vendetta here. It is a matter of intelligent discussion regarding controvertial and many times complex subject matters.

By the way, the appearance of the word "complex" in my post, should be a cue for you to high tail it out of here to some Mickey Mouse forum where you can discuss your favorite Disney cartoon characters, as in your recent posts you have not contributed anything to the discussion at hand, besides your usual out of touch and smug remarks!

Watching a video on youtube and saying "Oh, that MUST be true!" is not complex analysis.

[Hardwork108]

HW... let me ask you a simple question. What makes you so sure those youtube clips are right? How do you KNOW you aren't being bamboozled? Have you confirmed any of this by conducting your own trips and investigations outside of the internet?

Simply finding others who believe in the same lie isn't confirmation, either.

I have so far lived in 4 countries on 3 continents, including the Middle East. Those countries are nothing but colonies. Any "enemy" of the West in that region is a planted patsy, that includes the current government in Iran, who were brought to power when the Shah of Iran was overthrown in a "people's" (what a laugh) revolution orchestrated from Washington and London.

Some time during the Gulf War between Iran and Iraq. Iranian pilot (now living in the US) who rendevouzed with an Israeli transport plane to pick up shipment of US made weapons on a Spanish island, told friends of mine that he saw the same Israeli plane supplying an Iraqi plane sitting on the other side of the tarmak. His words were to the effect that his head almost exploded from the anger he felt! READ: The US (and allies) violating her own embargo to supply both sides of the war which claimed more than a million lives.

You should read the author/historian/journalist William Engendahl's "A Century of War: Anglo-American Oil Politics and the New World Order". Yep, no UFOs, Green Aliens, etc. just a fascinating and revealing book.

Now for South America. This is official history, because the "right" amount of time has passed away. The US overthrew Democratically elected governments in Chile and Brasil, among others. These governments were replaced by hand picked, psychotic dictators who bought arms from the US and used it against their own people in mass murders and torture, with the full knowledge of the US and even with her support. Are you denying this?


And yet again, the current war on terrorim and the "spark" that was 9-11, an event whose official version has more holes in it than the bible, with the fire proof passport; "sleeping" defenders that let a hijacked plane fly on around for 45 minutes, most of it on the most protected airspace on the planet; buildings collapsing into their own foot prints as if they were being demolished professionally; a third building that was not hit by any plane collapsing into its own foot print; Middle class alcohol drinking, strip club frequenting Arab kids being accused of being suicide bombers (LOL); Parallel security exercises covering the same scenario that was apparently happening at the same time as the "hijacks", which was also the case in the London 7/7 bombings (what are the chances of that happening twice?), as a cover operation, no doubt.

Then the invasion of Afghanistan in search of a non-existant terrorist organization called Al Quaeda (a name that is nothing but a computer file name created by the CIA to describe Taliban members trained by them....LOL), and to of course overthrow the Taliban, because they were murderous and were involved in the heroin trade.

Well, the "most dangerous terrorist organization in the world" (LOL), have since managed to send an underwear bomber (LOL, LOL, LOL), and a Madison Square car bomber, whose bomb did not explode because it was a very badly made basic device....LOL.

As for the heroin trade, it has trippled by some accounts, giving credence to the hypothesis that high levels of certain US intelligence agencies are not only involved in the illegal arms trade, but also that of illegal narcotics, the tips of which were revealed as far back as the Vietnam war and relatively recently during the Irangate affair.

Then we have the invasion of Iraq and the death of around a million mostly innocent human beings, because of non-existant and invisible Weapons of Mass Destruction.

So, there is a lot of wood for the fire, so to speak.......

[Drake]

I have so far lived in 4 countries on 3 continents, including the Middle East. Those countries are nothing but colonies. Any "enemy" of the West in that region is a planted patsy, that includes the current government in Iran, who were brought to power when the Shah of Iran was overthrown in a "people's" (what a laugh) revolution orchestrated from Washington and London.

Some time during the Gulf War between Iran and Iraq. Iranian pilot (now living in the US) who rendevouzed with an Israeli transport plane to pick up shipment of US made weapons on a Spanish island, told friends of mine that he saw the same Israeli plane supplying an Iraqi plane sitting on the other side of the tarmak. His words were to the effect that his head almost exploded from the anger he felt! READ: The US (and allies) violating her own embargo to supply both sides of the war which claimed more than a million lives.

You should read the author/historian/journalist William Engendahl's "A Century of War: Anglo-American Oil Politics and the New World Order". Yep, no UFOs, Green Aliens, etc. just a fascinating and revealing book.

Now for South America. This is official history, because the "right" amount of time has passed away. The US overthrew Democratically elected governments in Chile and Brasil, among others. These governments were replaced by hand picked, psychotic dictators who bought arms from the US and used it against their own people in mass murders and torture, with the full knowledge of the US and even with her support. Are you denying this?


And yet again, the current war on terrorim and the "spark" that was 9-11, an event whose official version has more holes in it than the bible, with the fire proof passport; "sleeping" defenders that let a hijacked plane fly on around for 45 minutes, most of it on the most protected airspace on the planet; buildings collapsing into their own foot prints as if they were being demolished professionally; a third building that was not hit by any plane collapsing into its own foot print; Middle class alcohol drinking, strip club frequenting Arab kids being accused of being suicide bombers (LOL); Parallel security exercises covering the same scenario that was apparently happening at the same time as the "hijacks", which was also the case in the London 7/7 bombings (what are the chances of that happening twice?), as a cover operation, no doubt.

Then the invasion of Afghanistan in search of a non-existant terrorist organization called Al Quaeda (a name that is nothing but a computer file name created by the CIA to describe Taliban members trained by them....LOL), and to of course overthrow the Taliban, because they were murderous and were involved in the heroin trade.

Well, the "most dangerous terrorist organization in the world" (LOL), have since managed to send an underwear bomber (LOL, LOL, LOL), and a Madison Square car bomber, whose bomb did not explode because it was a very badly made basic device....LOL.

As for the heroin trade, it has trippled by some accounts, giving credence to the hypothesis that high levels of certain US intelligence agencies are not only involved in the illegal arms trade, but also that of illegal narcotics, the tips of which were revealed as far back as the Vietnam war and relatively recently during the Irangate affair.

Then we have the invasion of Iraq and the death of around a million mostly innocent human beings, because of non-existant and invisible Weapons of Mass Destruction.

So, there is a lot of wood for the fire, so to speak.......

You are mixing in common knowledge with assertions that are not supported by that knowledge.

You also fail to acknowledge common knowledge that items are often frequently spared, without rhyme or reason, from plane crashes. This is VERY heavily documented, and has been known years before 9/11. You also fail to acknowledge that we are destroying thousands of hectares of opium, with virtually all of it now removed from Arghandab. we even have a national level anti-narcotics operations cell here, and opium growing in actually on the decline now.

Had you researched this, you would know that in 2003, we foolishly cut support for operations in Afghanistan to support Iraq, which led to a power vacuum filled by drug dealers and of course, the taliban.

Everything else you are saying has absolutely no supporting evidence. And Aghanistan isn't the ME. In fact, except for the religion, it really bears few similarities to Arab nations.

But anyway... you can't say "I've been to country x, therefore, AQ is a super secret coverup set up by a superpowerful evil syndicate aiming for world conquest".

So I ask again, aside from youtube clips, how can you back this up?

[wenshu]

http://911booger.blogspot.com/2007/06/study-identifies-increased-narcissism.html


As first reported by the Screw Loose Change blog in March 2007, a new psychological study, found that narcissism levels are significantly higher in recent generations." The study has spawned analysis of 9/11 conspiracy theorists, identifying narcissism as the prime motivating force behind efforts of young 9/11 Truthers to gain the attention they crave.

"It is important to note that those in the 9/11 Truth Movement need to stand out in the crowd, to exert their 'rightful importance' in the world," says BNN health consultant, Dr. James T. Howard, Jr.

Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) is characterized "...first and foremost by a positive and inflated view of the self, especially on agentic traits (e.g., power, importance, physical attractiveness... is associated with social extroversion, although narcissists have relatively little interest in forming warm, emotionally intimate bonds with others... involves a wide range of self-regulation efforts aimed at enhancing the self. These efforts can range from attention-seeking... taking credit from others... and opportunities to achieve public glory. Narcissists also lash out in aggression when they are rejected or insulted."


***

Illustrations of narcissism among the young generation of 9/11 conspiracy theorists include the famous debate in September, 2006, between "Loose Change" creators Dylan Avery and Jason Bermas and authors of the Popular Mechanics's stellar debunking of 9/11 conspiracy theories. Unable to withstand the rational rejection of his 9/11 conspiracy theories, Jason Bermas became increasingly arrogant and haughty believing himself to be a far better expert on structural engineering, physics, chemistry, and forensic science than the hundreds of experts that made up the NIST investigation. As the grandiose sense of his own abilities was crushed, Bermas repeatedly called the authors of "Debunking 9/11 Myths" liars.

Dr. Howard has followed 9/11 conspiracy theorists for four years, noting the case of William Rodriguez, the respected hero of 9/11, who led dozens of people to safety from the north tower of the World Trade Center before it collapsed on Sept. 11, 2001. Lately, many in some quarters have described Rodriguez as the "Fallen Angel" of 9/11.

"Fantasies about having exceptional power, attractiveness or success, a sense of belonging to an exclusive group of people who truly understand each other, expectations of special treatment, and haughty or arrogant behavior are some of the things we've seen in 9/11 conspiracy theorists."

[Hardwork108]

http://911booger.blogspot.com/2007/06/study-identifies-increased-narcissism.html

Welcome to the world of scientific mumbo jumbo, originating from a science that is owned by the corporate cartels that FINANCE it.

The only thing that the above post proves scientifically is the fact that "there is one like you, wenshu et al, born every minute"! LOL!


PS. This is actually disturbing, because the "democratic" system has become so dictatorial that if you do not believe in its official version of events, then it assumes that there is something psychologically wrong with you!

What next, people who do not believe your official fantasy version of the 9-11 masacre; the official version of the JFK shooting; the official version of the holocaust in Iraq, etc. then you should be sent for psychiatric treatment? How about send people to Siberia?

Some of you guys are so blind to what is happening with your societies, that it is not funny anymore!!!!

[Hardwork108]

You are mixing in common knowledge with assertions that are not supported by that knowledge.
The fact is that if you take the immoral behavior of the US and her allies, as documented by official history, as regards Latin America and the Middle East, then the assertions that these countries are run by psychopaths are very well supported!


You also fail to acknowledge common knowledge that items are often frequently spared, without rhyme or reason, from plane crashes.

Ok then, how many other passports were found from the plane crash.....LOL!


This is VERY heavily documented, and has been known years before 9/11.
Oh yes, I heard that they also found wenshu and his brains in tact in the wreckage.....the FBI claimed that Wenshu was a passenger in the plane and he survived, because it has been documented before that there are occassionally some survivors when planes crash....OF course all Americans believe the FBI, because they represent the caring government of the US and they would never lie...LOL!

I mean did you see what happened to those planes!


You also fail to acknowledge that we are destroying thousands of hectares of opium, with virtually all of it now removed from Arghandab. we even have a national level anti-narcotics operations cell here, and opium growing in actually on the decline now.
I would suggest that the "anti" narcotic operation cell there is a cover for smuggling the drugs out of Afghanistan.... ;)

By the way, the US military have been here in Colombia since the 1950s, and they have also been destroying "thousands" of hectars of coca leaf plantations, yet there is incredible amount of the stuff coming out of Colombia, including in US military planes (don't look surprised, just think back to Vietnam;)).

It is all a game filled smoke screens. What you do is compartementalized. You work with need to know basis. The people you work for have in one way or the other, and for centuries, set different political parties, countries, etc, against each other, while ultimately controlling all sides. The correct term for this is "controlled opposition". That is what happens everytime you have a "democratic" election. That is what happens in the military, when one group fights the enemy, while another group within the same force, but at probably a higher level is supplying that supporting that enemy, for an agenda that the first group of "heros" has no idea of.


Had you researched this, you would know that in 2003, we foolishly cut support for operations in Afghanistan to support Iraq, which led to a power vacuum filled by drug dealers and of course, the taliban.

And somehow even until then you had not managed to destroy the opium fields, or at least the drugs dealers? What happened? Are these muslims that crafty, that they actually hid their plantations? LOL Wow, I thought that it was a fluke that no one could find the WOMADs, but now entire opium fields are hidden from view in an invaded country that had been invaded by the most advanced military force on the planet.

Oh boy, Allah never ceases to amaze.....LOL!

Lets see when the opium exports from Afghanistan will completely stop, shall we?


Everything else you are saying has absolutely no supporting evidence.

Lets put it this way, the one of the reasons the US invaded Afghanistan, besides for searching and destroying hyper advanced terrists, living in caves (:rolleyes:), was to destroy the opium/heroin trade. Yet, a few years after the invasion, the narcotics exports from that region more than doubled (and I am being conservative here).

When this happens and the invading country has a history in illegally dealing in drugs (and arms), then what I have said is the intelligent conclusion.

Then you have the overthrow of democratically elected governments all over the place including in Latin America, and their replacement with murderous regimes, hand picked by the US intelligence agencies. If you want evidence of that then look at official history and accounts.



And Aghanistan isn't the ME. In fact, except for the religion, it really bears few similarities to Arab nations.
I must have been asleep when Afghanistan joined the European community, but hey nobody's perfect....:p


But anyway... you can't say "I've been to country x, therefore, AQ is a super secret coverup set up by a superpowerful evil syndicate aiming for world conquest".

So I ask again, aside from youtube clips, how can you back this up?
Well as for the coverup regarding the Al Quaeda, you won't need my evidence, just look at what the former and not surprisingly late British Foreign Secretary described the Al Qaeda as nothing but a US Intelligence file name given to the Taliban it trained. Feel free to call him a tin hat wearing conspiracy nut! Anyway, you can't because he happened to die from a "heart attack" some time after making those comments...

[Dragonzbane76]

Oh, come on, even other members here have noticed your constant stalking behavior. LOL!



We are all special persons, but perhaps you Dragonzbane, can be classified a special needs one.....LOL!




There is no vendetta here. It is a matter of intelligent discussion regarding controvertial and many times complex subject matters.


By the way, the appearance of the word "complex" in my post, should be a cue for you to high tail it out of here to some Mickey Mouse forum where you can discuss your favorite Disney cartoon characters, as in your recent posts you have not contributed anything to the discussion at hand, besides your usual out of touch and smug remarks!


No vendetta? Lol everyone here knows you bring that boulder on your shoulder to every debate. As for the rest of your childish insults, they just add to your condescending snow ball. Honestly I can't understand why anyone speaks to you at all here. Other than the fact you have good trolling abilities.

As for contribution all I can say is I like poking the hornet nest sometimes. Most of your topics brought forth are vague notions supported by the laws of YouTube. No evidence, only "your real life experiences". So more or less we are left to belive your word of mouth "stories".

[wenshu]

Well as for the coverup regarding the Al Quaeda, you won't need my evidence, just look at what the former and not surprisingly late British Foreign Secretary described the Al Qaeda as nothing but a US Intelligence file name given to the Taliban it trained. Feel free to call him a tin hat wearing conspiracy nut! Anyway, you can't because he happened to die from a "heart attack" some time after making those comments...

Where is it exactly that Robin Cook says that Al Qaeda is part of some conspiracy?
This is the problem with your bull****. You make vague references to some piece of information you misinterpreted and cherry picked to confirm your pre-established fantasies and delusions of grandeur. Maybe you hope no one will actually be bothered to look it up. Most of the time you conveniently don't actually reference anything substantive.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2005/jul/08/july7.development


Bin Laden was, though, a product of a monumental miscalculation by western security agencies. Throughout the 80s he was armed by the CIA and funded by the Saudis to wage jihad against the Russian occupation of Afghanistan. Al-Qaida, literally "the database", was originally the computer file of the thousands of mujahideen who were recruited and trained with help from the CIA to defeat the Russians. Inexplicably, and with disastrous consequences, it never appears to have occurred to Washington that once Russia was out of the way, Bin Laden's organisation would turn its attention to the west.

The danger now is that the west's current response to the terrorist threat compounds that original error. So long as the struggle against terrorism is conceived as a war that can be won by military means, it is doomed to fail. The more the west emphasises confrontation, the more it silences moderate voices in the Muslim world who want to speak up for cooperation. Success will only come from isolating the terrorists and denying them support, funds and recruits, which means focusing more on our common ground with the Muslim world than on what divides us.




Welcome to the world of scientific mumbo jumbo, originating from a science that is owned by the corporate cartels that FINANCE it.

The only thing that the above post proves scientifically is the fact that "there is one like you, wenshu et al, born every minute"! LOL!

I'll agree the "science" was complete bull****, but the observations and descriptions of behavior fit you to a T.

[ShaolinDan]

I really try to make it a point not to touch politics discussion online, let alone on this forum.

I'm just going to say this: Back in 1998 I took a class in college on 'Imperialism in the Post-colonial era.'

The teacher, Eqbal Ahmad (RIP), a colleague and friend of guys like Edward Said and Kofi Anan, talked a lot about Afghanistan.

I won't bring my opinion into this, but his opinion was that the Soviets/Russians wanted to be able to build and control an oil pipeline through Afghanistan. That the U.S. armed Bin Laden to prevent this, and that he became the U.S.'s enemy when we started trying to build and control an oil pipeline in Afghanistan. That was his opinion.

The rest, my friends, is actual history. :)

[Drake]

I really try to make it a point not to touch politics discussion online, let alone on this forum.

I'm just going to say this: Back in 1998 I took a class in college on 'Imperialism in the Post-colonial era.'

The teacher, Eqbal Ahmad (RIP), a colleague and friend of guys like Edward Said and Kofi Anan, talked a lot about Afghanistan.

I won't bring my opinion into this, but his opinion was that the Soviets/Russians wanted to be able to build and control an oil pipeline through Afghanistan. That the U.S. armed Bin Laden to prevent this, and that he became the U.S.'s enemy when we started trying to build and control an oil pipeline in Afghanistan. That was his opinion.

The rest, my friends, is actual history. :)

I made a boo boo.

[ShaolinDan]

I'm not going to argue politics with you, Drake. You're welcome to believe whatever you want.
However, I'm pretty sure my professor emeritus and globally respected international peace worker was not a retard. :) But I won't argue with you about that either. It really doesn't matter. He has the respect of millions around the world.

[Drake]

I'm not going to argue politics with you, Drake. You're welcome to believe whatever you want.
However, I'm pretty sure my professor emeritus and globally respected international peace worker was not a retard. :) But I won't argue with you about that either. It really doesn't matter. He has the respect of millions around the world.

Disregard. My bad.

[ShaolinDan]

disregarded. No worries. :)

[Hardwork108]

Where is it exactly that Robin Cook says that Al Qaeda is part of some conspiracy?
Where did I say that he did?

I just said that he stated that Al Quaeda was a computer file name that referred to the Taliban that were trained by the US!

In short, no "terrorist" organization called Al Quaeda existed until brought into existance by US Intelligence psychops that convinced every Western hating muslim kid that they had "heroes" fighting for them.

That is what is meant by the concept of CONTROLLED OPPOSITION. First you create an enemy out of thin air, then attack that enemy to create the desired reaction. Then you take the reaction and call it "Al quaeda terrorist attempts", and bingo you have a an alive and kicking terrorist threat, which you can use to make war and steal other countries natural resources, while the banking and corporate cartels that have put you into power in the first place, reap the profits from arms sail, construction contracts and long term loans.

Of course, at the same time this FANTASY war on FANTASY terrorists, enables governments who are democratic only in name to flex their muscles against their own populations by introducing enhanced control and surveillance systems, as well as using legislation to reduce their civil rights on every turn.

Brilliant if you ask me, as they seem to have most of their populations hood winked, but then the naive will be naive.

On the positive side, many are waking up to this scam and many others perpetuated by our rulers.....



This is the problem with your bull****. You make vague references to some piece of information you misinterpreted and cherry picked to confirm your pre-established fantasies and delusions of grandeur. Maybe you hope no one will actually be bothered to look it up. Most of the time you conveniently don't actually reference anything substantive.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2005/jul/08/july7.development

There is nothing there that is new to me. You just missed the point and that was that the Al Quaeda was brought into existance by US (and probably British - by some accounts the same organization) intelligence.

IF you are into research, then try and see how many Islamic suicide bombers who are alcohol drinking and strip club frequenting, you can find on this planet! LOL!





I'll agree the "science" was complete bull****, but the observations and descriptions of behavior fit you to a T.

Except for the fact that they DON'T!

I know the subject area that I am discussing, while the people in your "scientific" model, don't! However, neither do you, in which case, they will have more in common with you, than with me!


PS. If I were you, I would be careful when referring to The Guardian newspaper as a source of evidence, as there is at least one moderator here that believes The Guardian to be a tin hat wearing conspiracy site! LOL,LOL,LOL,LOL!

Seriously, I am beginning to believe that in a past life I may have caused a lot of grief to unintelligent and conginitively challenged people, because in this life, all I get is grief from their decendants......

[Hardwork108]

I really try to make it a point not to touch politics discussion online, let alone on this forum.

I'm just going to say this: Back in 1998 I took a class in college on 'Imperialism in the Post-colonial era.'

The teacher, Eqbal Ahmad (RIP), a colleague and friend of guys like Edward Said and Kofi Anan, talked a lot about Afghanistan.

I won't bring my opinion into this, but his opinion was that the Soviets/Russians wanted to be able to build and control an oil pipeline through Afghanistan. That the U.S. armed Bin Laden to prevent this, and that he became the U.S.'s enemy when we started trying to build and control an oil pipeline in Afghanistan. That was his opinion.

The rest, my friends, is actual history. :)

There is a lot basis for that hypothesis and I am glad that you brought it up. If you had made this very valid point in a less subtle manner, that is, by personalizing it through your opinions, then you would be labeled a tin hat wearing "conspiracy" theorist, by this forums' Disney channel fans.

There are many levels to this story, but the pipeline did play a fundamental part in the way the war against Afghanistan was engineered.

[wenshu]

So, let me see if I get this straight. In this post



Well as for the coverup regarding the Al Quaeda, you won't need my evidence, just look at what the former and not surprisingly late British Foreign Secretary described the Al Qaeda as nothing but a US Intelligence file name given to the Taliban it trained. Feel free to call him a tin hat wearing conspiracy nut! Anyway, you can't because he happened to die from a "heart attack" some time after making those comments...

You weren't actually referring to the line in Robin Cook's op-ed piece about where Al-Qaeda got its name as evidence of it being made up as part of a conspiracy.


Where did I say that he did?

I just said that he stated that Al Quaeda was a computer file name that referred to the Taliban that were trained by the US!


Then in the very next sentence:


In short, no "terrorist" organization called Al Quaeda existed until brought into existance by US Intelligence psychops that convinced every Western hating muslim kid that they had "heroes" fighting for them.

So which is it?

[ShaolinDan]

There is a lot basis for that hypothesis and I am glad that you brought it up. If you had made this very valid point in a less subtle manner, that is, by personalizing it through your opinions, then you would be labeled a tin hat wearing "conspiracy" theorist, by this forums' Disney channel fans.

There are many levels to this story, but the pipeline did play a fundamental part in the way the war against Afghanistan was engineered.

Yes, there are many levels. And yes, when discussing politics (or religion), subtlety (if not silence) are critical in preventing backlash. :) Learned this the hard way years ago. Still working on learning it when it comes to MA. :)

[Hardwork108]

So, let me see if I get this straight. In this post



You weren't actually referring to the line in Robin Cook's op-ed piece about where Al-Qaeda got its name as evidence of it being made up as part of a conspiracy.

Yes, I was!




Then in the very next sentence:


So which is it?

LOOK, it is not rocket science, even if you don't come across as rocket scientist. Al Quaeda is a made up organization. Read my previous post carefully, more carefully than you read the Guardian article, which you should have a look at, again, paying attention to the bold section:

"Bin Laden was, though, a product of a monumental miscalculation by western security agencies. Throughout the 80s he was armed by the CIA and funded by the Saudis to wage jihad against the Russian occupation of Afghanistan. Al-Qaida, literally "the database", was originally the computer file of the thousands of mujahideen who were recruited and trained with help from the CIA to defeat the Russians. Inexplicably, and with disastrous consequences, it never appears to have occurred to Washington that once Russia was out of the way, Bin Laden's organisation would turn its attention to the west.

The danger now is that the west's current response to the terrorist threat compounds that original error. So long as the struggle against terrorism is conceived as a war that can be won by military means, it is doomed to fail. The more the west emphasises confrontation, the more it silences moderate voices in the Muslim world who want to speak up for cooperation. Success will only come from isolating the terrorists and denying them support, funds and recruits, which means focusing more on our common ground with the Muslim world than on what divides us."

Al Quaeda did and does not exist. It is a fantasy organization made up by US psychops - traumatize the population (9-11) then point your finger at a "terrorist" organization, to further your agenda. That is all, it is!

I remember a British TV documentary team in Afghanistan searching for the Al Quaeda, and they came up with nothing. Of course, today things would be different because every US/Western hating muslim kid will profess support and even membership in this non-existant terrorist organization. Read: a successful psychop operation!

JUST WAKE UP FOR GOD'S SAKE!

[Drake]

Are psychops sort of like hiccups?

[wenshu]

Referring to Cook's op-ed as "evidence" of Al-Qaeda being made up


Well as for the coverup regarding the Al Quaeda, you won't need my evidence, just look at what the former and not surprisingly late British Foreign Secretary described the Al Qaeda as nothing but a US Intelligence file name given to the Taliban it trained. Feel free to call him a tin hat wearing conspiracy nut! Anyway, you can't because he happened to die from a "heart attack" some time after making those comments...

Not referring to it as "evidence":


Where did I say that he did?

I just said that he stated that Al Quaeda was a computer file name that referred to the Taliban that were trained by the US!.

Referring to it as "evidence":



You weren't actually referring to the line in Robin Cook's op-ed piece about where Al-Qaeda got its name as evidence of it being made up as part of a conspiracy.



Yes, I was!

Oh, so you were, oh I see, excuse me if I am a little slow following along. You are kind of all over the place. Must be a function of your dizzyingly superior intellect; being able to hold two completely conflicting viewpoints about ones own convictions simultaneously.

[Hardwork108]

Referring to Cook's op-ed as "evidence" of Al-Qaeda being made up


Not referring to it as "evidence":



Referring to it as "evidence":





Oh, so you were, oh I see, excuse me if I am a little slow following along. You are kind of all over the place. Must be a function of your dizzyingly superior intellect; being able to hold two completely conflicting viewpoints about ones own convictions simultaneously.

Are you trying very hard to be silly? If so then don't try so hard, as just by keeping on posting in your normal manner, you will get the same results.

Look. Robin Cook did not mention "conspiracies", but he did say that "Al Quaeda" was the name of database.

I on the other hand am using the description of "conspiracy". Robin Cook didn't, because he was probably trying to get the message across without getting killed. His attempt to save his skin may not have worked (he was also a great critique of the war in Iraq) as he died from a "heartattack" way before his time.

Another untimely death happened to occur to David Kelly, he said that reports of Iraq having WOMADS were exaggerated to justify the war. His exit from this diimension was due to "suicide", you may remember....

By the way, it is never about my "superior" intellect, but more about the below average intellect of many people in the Western world, AS REGARDS world politics.

[Drake]

Wait... is AQ a file or a database? Big difference.

[Hardwork108]

Wait... is AQ a file or a database? Big difference.

You tell me, as you work in a branch of US Intelligence! :)

Whatever the differences, the fact remains that Al Quaeda does not exist as "terrorist" organization, despite the terror that it causes amongst the more gullible members of our societies and despite of the fact that it has become an iconic organization among West hating Islamic youths all over the world!

Actually, even if it had "existed" in a skeletal form, then it would have been a wholey owned subsidiary of Western (principally US and British) Intelligence. So yes, there is a very small chance that it "exists"....

[Hardwork108]

Are psychops sort of like hiccups?

Yes, kind of. They are "hiccups" in human evolution, slowing us down in our journey towards a more spiritual and humane existance!

[Hebrew Hammer]

Oh, so you were, oh I see, excuse me if I am a little slow following along. You are kind of all over the place. Must be a function of your dizzyingly superior intellect; being able to hold two completely conflicting viewpoints about ones own convictions simultaneously.

This would also qualify him as being Jewish...I'll see what I can do to get you into the club...at the very least I'll show you the secret handshake.

[Hebrew Hammer]

You tell me, as you work in a branch of US Intelligence! :)


If he did, he'd probably have to kill you!

[Hardwork108]

If he did, he'd probably have to kill you!

Actually, he works for military intelligence. His job is no secret (except to you, it seems....LOL), as he has openly admitted to it here in the forum.

He probably, does his job with the best of intentions, just like most soldiers serving the system. So, he must be respected for that.

However, such discussions are necessary to expand all our scopes.

[wenshu]

Look. Robin Cook did not mention "conspiracies", but he did say that "Al Quaeda" was the name of database.

I on the other hand am using the description of "conspiracy". Robin Cook didn't, because he was probably trying to get the message across without getting killed. His attempt to save his skin may not have worked (he was also a great critique of the war in Iraq) as he died from a "heartattack" way before his time.

Just so we're clear this time.

He was not referring to Al-Qaeda as a fabircation, but he was.

[wenshu]

at the very least I'll show you the secret handshake.

something something foreskin.

[Drake]

HW,
You aren't special. You haven't discovered anything amazing, groundbreaking, earth-shattering, or remarkable. You aren't part of a cause, movement, or revolution. You aren't "enlightening" "waking up" or "alarming" anyone, because if you haven't noticed, nobody believes you.

You need to see someone about your rampant narcissism..,

[Hardwork108]

HW,
You aren't special. You haven't discovered anything amazing, groundbreaking, earth-shattering, or remarkable. You aren't part of a cause, movement, or revolution. You aren't "enlightening" "waking up" or "alarming" anyone, because if you haven't noticed, nobody believes you.

You need to see someone about your rampant narcissism..,

This is not about me, but about how naive grown and apparently educated men can be....

You are right, Drake:

- the US did not engineers Coup d'tetats against democratically elected leaders in South America and replace them with murderous dictators who used US made arms to slaughter their own populations.

- The US government and its intelligence and military agencies have never participated in illegal drugs and arms trading, and Iransgate was just a few tin hat wearing conspiracy theorists babbling and shaking the boat!

- The US government invaded Iraq, because Iraq had Mass Weapons of Destruction and out of the US governments kind concern over the rights and freedoms of the Iraqi people. Any claims that Iraq did not have a such weapons and that the US and her allies may have been after strategic interests and OIL, is pure tin hat wearing fantasy.

- The world is full of alcohol drinking, strip club frequenting and Mc Donald's eating (one of the London bombers), suicidal Islamic terrorists.

- The world is also full of sky scrapers that collapse into their own foot prints when their upper floors are on fire. Sometimes, even buildings that have not been hit by airliners collapse into their own footprints (Building Number Seven on the day of the 9-11 strikes), out of sympathy, no doubt.

- All middle class, alcohol drinking, strip club frequenting, Mc Donald's eating, suicide terrorists carry fire ball proof passports.

- One of the reasons that US invaded Afghanistan was to stop the illegal heroin trade by the Taliban. Any reports that Afghanistan's heroin exports have multiplied during US control are just theories of Conspiracy invented by tin hat wearers...

- There was no conspiracy to assassinate JFK. Apparently he was killed by a "magic" bullet that did all sorts of weird things, but it must be true, because the government says so....

And of course, Drake, there are many, many, many other solid reasons why you are "right".........LOL!

[wenshu]

This is not about me, but about how naive grown and apparently educated men can be....

- The world is full of alcohol drinking, strip club frequenting and Mc Donald's eating (one of the London bombers), suicidal Islamic terrorists.


All the other bull**** aside, what is with the fascination on this particular point? If they did in fact drink, go to strip clubs and eat **** food how does this preclude anyone from being a fanatic or a terrorist? Where are you getting this information about their extra curricular activities anyways?

It might also help your rhetorical methods if you didn't constantly make blanket statements about people being ignorant and naive. I mean I'm all for the occasional well placed witticism but you straight up call everyone who doesn't completely agree with you idiots every single time you post. It's a bit off putting to put it mildly and moves the focus away from debate and into petty squabbling and name calling. Unless of course that is your strategy because you don't actually want to debate because you have no facts and no sources to back up anything you say, which in that case, by all means. See what I mean? Now the focus is on the last paragraph and not the query I started with.

[Hardwork108]

All the other bull**** aside, what is with the fascination on this particular point? If they did in fact drink, go to strip clubs and eat **** food how does this preclude anyone from being a fanatic or a terrorist? Where are you getting this information about their extra curricular activities anyways?
Usually, even some mildly religious muslims, do not touch alcohol, and would not be seen dead in strip joint. Now, you fly to the extreme of this religion where the person or persons involved hate the West and their "corrupt" way of life as well as their permissive (among other things) idiologies so much that they are willing to take their own young lives and those of thousands of innocent people.

Such people go around with "Allah" in their minds - they live in a "this is a sin and that is dirty", world. Some of these guys feel like they are on a mission for Allah, and that god is watching their every move.

Totally indoctrinated fanatics like this are not likely to go to strip clubs and drink alcohol, much less with copies of the Koran (LOL!) unless they are PATSIES, which was what these poor Arab kids were!


It might also help your rhetorical methods if you didn't constantly make blanket statements about people being ignorant and naive. I mean I'm all for the occasional well placed witticism but you straight up call everyone who doesn't completely agree with you idiots every single time you post. It's a bit off putting to put it mildly and moves the focus away from debate and into petty squabbling and name calling. Unless of course that is your strategy because you don't actually want to debate because you have no facts and no sources to back up anything you say, which in that case, by all means. See what I mean? Now the focus is on the last paragraph and not the query I started with.

Sorry, but I think that you conveniently missed all the insults and name calling coming from the other side! ;)

By the way, as for the London "bomber" who was filmed on CCTV cameras inside a Mcdonald's store, you should remember that this is not about junk food, but eating in an institution that represents the US Empire, the world over, is not the suicidal muslim thing to do. On top of that, even moderate muslims avoid food that is not "halal", read the Islamic version of Kosher. Mc Donald's burgers are not Hallal!

[Drake]

Do some research on "chai boys".

You'll see how religious these creeps are.

[Hardwork108]

Do some research on "chai boys".

You'll see how religious these creeps are.

You are trying hard to distract attention from the facts I have posted above. I mean, are you trying to say that the fantasy "suicide" bombers on 9-11 were gay Afghan Dancing Boys.....LOL!

Or were they gay Iraqi boy tea waiters......LOL!

The fact of the matter is if you are going to be religiously so indoctrinated (brainwashed) that you are willing to take your own precious life and those of thousands of innocent people, then no way in hell are you going to be inclined to frequent strip clubs and drink alcohol, in world where many moderate non- fanatical muslims would not be caught dead doing either of those things!

The fact is that the events on 9-11 were an inside job - a false flag operation designed to get the desired effect, and so far they have got the effect that they were looking for:

!. License to pillage and control resource rich countries for financial gain and let's not kid ourselves as the riches stolen are not for the benefit of the US (nor her allies') populations, but only for the Banking and Corporate elite that are in control of the governments in these (and most other) regions of the world.

2. Traumatise the populations enough to accept restrictions on their civil liberties. Liberties that other soldiers such as yourself have died for in the past to preserve. This is happening because the "system" is very well aware of a presently undercurrent of awakening amongst the masses for some years now, so they are tightening the lid on basic freedoms. The wars, economic crisis and the mind numbing way of life is also designed to stop this awakening, but in vain, because it is happening all around us.

3. The "terrorist" threat is one more INTERNATIONAL or GLOBAL problem (together with the other fantasy of "man made Global Warming"; "Pandemic/Epidemic" fantasy threats, etc.), that are designed to convince the masses to accept INTERNATIONAL "solutions", which means taking them closer to the so called New World Order - meaning a world government run by the same psychopaths who are creating all of these wars, famine and suffering, which on one level we are given false reasons for, while on another level we are told is "just human nature".

[Drake]

If they frwquently sodomize young biys, which is unislamic, what do you really think their limits are?

These are not saintly holy warriors... and I don't know what youtube clip put that in your head. You don't know **** about the taliban. You have done ZERO actual research, and you are grossly naive about world events.

[Xiao3 Meng4]

Etc. Etc. By the way, as for the London "bomber" who was filmed on CCTV cameras inside a Mcdonald's store, you should remember that this is not about junk food, but eating in an institution that represents the US Empire, the world over, is not the suicidal muslim thing to do. On top of that, even moderate muslims avoid food that is not "halal", read the Islamic version of Kosher. Mc Donald's burgers are not Hallal!

On any day of the week, I could disprove your points simply by going over to my local McDonald's and snapping a few pictures. Not only is it frequented by Muslim patrons, including chador-wearing women and their children; there are also several Muslims of varying nationalities working there, including women with hijabs.

[Drake]

On any day of the week, I could disprove your points simply by going over to my local McDonald's and snapping a few pictures. Not only is it frequented by Muslim patrons, including chador-wearing women and their children; there are also several Muslims of varying nationalities working there, including women with hijabs.

Apparently he thinks AQ are saintly holy warriors who are as chaste as the pure, newly driven snow. Well, that or a fictional organization which coincidentally uses thousands of paid muslim actors all over the world, as well as maintaining AQ websites, pretending to be human intelligence sources everywhere providing false data, and generally fabricating a huge network that has been around for decades.

Yeah, THAT makes sense...

[wenshu]

I've personally known several devout, outwardly pious muslims and even during Ramadan as soon as the sun goes down errybody's in the club getting typsy.

HW I though you were supposed to be this sophisticated, cosmopolitan expat but your assumptions about Islam and her believers are strikingly simplistic. They are only human. No matter what, killing innocents, let alone other muslims (which AQ has no qualms about en masse) is a lot worse in the eyes of the prophet than sex and booze.

[Xiao3 Meng4]

I've personally known several devout, outwardly pious muslims and even during Ramadan as soon as the sun goes down

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JX1jh7QdrpY

[Hardwork108]

I've personally known several devout, outwardly pious muslims and even during Ramadan as soon as the sun goes down errybody's in the club getting typsy.
No one is denying that there is hypocracy in religion. I have lived in a muslim country where there were people who would not even wait for the sun to go down before eating and drinking out of sheer hunger. Perhaps a part of them realized the stupidity of this type of religious dogma.

However, there are many who practice the religion to the point of whipping themselves with chains, until they bleed. These type of people would not drink alcohol, eat pork or frequent strip clubs, just like their equivalents in the related mumbo jumbo religions of Christianity and Judaism.

So a question for you. Who is more likely to go and kill thousands of innocents and HIMSELF, the guy who pretends to be religious to please his peers, but has fun and games when no one is looking - that is ENJOYING LIFE - or the guy is so religious that he beats himself bloody senseless every year to "celebrate" Islam?

And more importantly, which one of the two types of muslims will have enough clout with Allah, to have him bring down THREE buildings into their own foot prints, when only TWO had been hit by aircraft? :D


HW I though you were supposed to be this sophisticated, cosmopolitan expat but your assumptions about Islam and her believers are strikingly simplistic.
As you can see, they are not. I am talking pure logic. There are people in this world that have taken their own lives and those of others because they believed that would be taken to some "nirvana" on a space ship. The world is full of indoctrinated people who live the "book" of whatever indoctrination that has been unleashed on them. The hypocritical ones among them are less likely to commit insane acts in the name of that "book".

It is simple logic.


They are only human. No matter what, killing innocents, let alone other muslims (which AQ has no qualms about en masse) is a lot worse in the eyes of the prophet than sex and booze.
Actually, I don't think there is anything in the Koran that is extreme. As usual, it is the bat crazy people who cling to such books and turn them into what they are not.

I mean you did not have such insanity when the Arabs (the Moors) invaded parts of Europe. Of course, it was a war and invasion, but they brought with them scientific thinking and were a lot more tolerant than the Christians of the time.

You mentioned that the muslims are "human" and that is the key point. Human beings in general have an aversion to killing what they consider to be other innocent human beings, unless that is, they are brainwashed and indoctrinated, through, religion and of course, there is a political model for this as well - see the Western soldiers out to get the "rug heads".

There is also the threat to the group, concept - see: The "Terrorist Threat" and they are out to get us fantasy - (first it was the Communists and now that they are gone, we are conveniently presented by the "muslim threat" or the "terrorist threat" - take your pick).

When the "group" feels threatened then it is the hell with the aversion to killing, "we need to protect ourselves, our families and nation", mentality that takes over. This human weakness has been historically manipulated and its flames fanned by the powers that be who want to engineer a war.


Anyway, going back to being human, the other aspect of human character even stronger than what I mentioned above, is his aversion to take his own life, unless again, he is brainwashed and indoctrinated to a point where his concept of reality changes.

Religiously speaking, suicide bombers are the real devoot followers. It is difficult to believe that these people will kill themselves thinking that they will end up in heaven, but days before that "SIN", by drinking alcohol and frequent strip clubs, and if memory serves me correctly, they left a copy of the Koran in one of the clubs (as well as in their car)....LOL!

Did you know, some of these real religious muslims do not even use perfume that contains alcohol. I am talking about the real muslims and not the "part time" ones!

So, here we go again. A dozen or so Middle Class Arab men, who frequented strip clubs and drank alcohol, "hijack" planes and fly them around (in one case up to 45 minutes) in the most protected airspace on the planet, without being intercepted. They crash a couple of those planes against TWO buildings in New York, bringing down THREE buildings, in their own FOOT PRINTS. And there are other loop holes in this story as well, more than I care to mention here.

I and many others believe these guys to have been Patsies. They were somehow convinced to participate in a "security training" exercise. As you probably know, there were military/airforce exercises being carried out on that exact day and covering more or less the exact hijack type scenario.

Of course, it is a lot easier to convince middle class, western educated, alcohol drinking and strip club frequenting Arab kids to participate in a US military security exercise, than convincing actual muslim fanatics - don't you think?

The same thing is true about the 7th of July London bombings. On the day of these bombings, security exercises training a bombing scenario in the same underground stations that were eventually bombed, were being carried out. This is not a "conspiracy" theory, but a fact!

At least some of the "bombers" were British born. That is they were not born in some far flung village in Afghanistan, where they would have been indoctrinated to such an extent. Nor were they born in the battle grounds of Palastine where having lost family members and indoctrinated further into wack job islam, they would be willing to take their own lives to strike a blow against the "West". One of these guys was a British school teacher, for god's sake!

People should wake up and realize that the powers that rule them are separate to the fantasy "Democracy", "justice", "freedom", etc. sold to them. They are psychopathic clans that have been in power for a long, long time.

They don't give two bits about human life, including their own "subjects", which in many cases they see with contempt. If for just one moment you use my model of the universe, then all of this mayhem, looting, insecurity, disease and famine in the world, will make more sense to you.

[Hardwork108]

On any day of the week, I could disprove your points simply by going over to my local McDonald's and snapping a few pictures. Not only is it frequented by Muslim patrons, including chador-wearing women and their children; there are also several Muslims of varying nationalities working there, including women with hijabs.

Hey, the first time I was introduced to the Chemical Burger, sorry I meant the Big Mac, was by a muslim friend.....LOL I don't eat that cr@p anymore. You and Drake might think that it is good food, because "if it was bad, Mr President would have said so".......but anyway, the point is that you are not telling me anything new.

Again, next time you go to your local Mc Donald's, during "any day of the week", grab one of the muslims there, when he or she is munching a a burger and ask him or her, how willing they would be to kill themselves and thousands of infidels in the name of Islam and jihad! They would probably think that you were a nut! LOL!

The fact is that the world is full of people who unwillingly belong to one dogma religion or the other. They might even talk the talk and "dress to impress", but will try and break free in their own ways. In short, your examples are no muslim fanatics and I doubt any of them would claim to be, if you ask them.

Yet, there are fanatics out there who do not eat pork. Do not drink alcohol and would even brush against a woman in the street, as this would be against their religious beliefs, and once a year they beat themselves senseless and bloody, using heavy iron chains.

Who in your opinion is the more likely candidate to blow himself and a thousands of "American 'enemies' ". The guy who eats Big Macs regularly, is not partial to heavy drinking and like his occassional lap dance, or the guy who does not eat pork, does not drink, and beats himself senseless and bloody in the name of Allah, while hating any Western influence which he sees CORRUPTING his divine lifestyle?

THINK CAREFULLY, forget your ego and that the fact that you want to be right. Forget your political and intellectual comfort zone!

It is a simple question. who is more likely to be a suicide bomber willing to take his own life for a religious belief? Are you thinking that a man who cannot follow his religion to the point of not drinking alcohol and not frequenting strip clubs, is going to instead follow it to cause mass murder, as well as committing suicide? LOL

By the way multiply that one example with a dozen or so such "Islamic Fanatics". I mean how many of these so called terrorists are confirmed devout, non- alcohol drinking, non-strip club frequenting RELIGIOUS people?

How many confirmed alcohol drinking, strip club frequenting SUICIDE bombers have we had in the Gaza Strip? Any?

[Drake]

You make a ton of assumptions, but I will address one.

I don't eat McDonalds. I get my meat from local ranchers, and my veggies and fruit from local CSAs. Brilliant assumption, there, genius.

And you are the one speaking from the western mind which entraps you. There is no aversion to death here. Not even for children.

Don't you ever get tired of bleating like a sheep and always being wrong?

[Hardwork108]

If they frwquently sodomize young biys, which is unislamic, what do you really think their limits are?

Well at least they have that in common with their Christian Anglo Saxon counterparts....LOL!


These are not saintly holy warriors... and I don't know what youtube clip put that in your head. You don't know **** about the taliban. You have done ZERO actual research, and you are grossly naive about world events.

You arguing against your own point. Why kill yourself, when you enjoy your alcohol, your strip clubs and the occassional young boy (if you are real sick). So, if these "suicide bombers" are not blinded by religious fanaticism, which was what has been sold to the people here in the West, then what possesses them to take their own lives? Political beliefs? Surely not, because the politicians are even more hypocritical than the religious fraternity....LOL!

I know more about this stuff than you Drake. The problem with you is that what you know has been dictated to you. Your mindset has been engineered, so that you will take in info in the way that is acceptable to a system that has massacred hundreds of thousands of Arabs and Afghans.

If people like you were to wake up and realize what you were part of, then this whole corrupt and inhumane system would collapse. Unfortunately, people like you are so indoctrinated, that you don't wake up until you are accused of military crimes of war and put on trial.

That is when the coin will drop, and the statements such as "I was only following orders", or " I was defending my homeland and its way of life", are released.

Again, soldiers are the most brainwashed and indoctrinated people the system has, because without them all of this charade would collapse. You know the saying," if no soldiers showed up, there wouldn't be any war" ?

It is true. Without wars, there is no looting; no billions made from arms sales; no extortionate loans to rebuild destroyed nations; no lucrative reconstruction contracts.......

The fact that you and others like you, fail to follow the money trail, indicates how indoctrinated you are!!!!!

[Hardwork108]

You make a ton of assumptions, but I will address one.

I don't eat McDonalds. I get my meat from local ranchers, and my veggies and fruit from local CSAs. Brilliant assumption, there, genius.
I was just kidding about that one. You seem to have acquired a good taste for gourmet. I remember you telling me about your appreciation of Afghan cuisine.:)


And you are the one speaking from the western mind which entraps you. There is no aversion to death here. Not even for children.

Don't you ever get tired of bleating like a sheep and always being wrong?

Whos is more likely to kill children, the religiously indoctrinated Taliban fighters, or Mac Donald frequenting, alcohol drinking, strip club appreciating, middle class, Western educated Arab kids? LOL!

[Xiao3 Meng4]

So, because I know that Muslims frequent McDonald's and work there as well, it means I like their food???? WTF

I guess I can't possibly know this info due to the fact that, say, I live right beside the establishment and watch patrons going in and out, or to and from work every day.... or perhaps due to the fact that some of the muslims that work there are my friends, or live in my building... naw, it can't be due to that; in your mind, it HAS to be because I gorge myself on Big Macs. :rolleyes:

As to your other claims about extremists walking the talk... it's actually a fairly common phenomenon that extremists publicly follow certain limits BECAUSE of their deviant private behavior. Wolves in Sheep's clothing, hiding in plain sight and all that. Anti-gay Republicans who are actually closet-****sexuals, Priests who are pedophiles, Abusive parents who are child-support workers, Police officers who commit crimes... the list goes on and on and on. And IN that list, of course, we find religious zealots who use their zealotry to mask behaviour deemed unacceptable in their respective cultures... such as booze, or licentiousness, or eating non-sanctioned foods.

Furthermore, it's common for individuals with deviant perspectives to seek out and form legitimizing groups with others who share the same perspectives. These groups are known as gangs, cults and sects. Their purpose is often to provide a safe haven for deviant behaviour by publicly claiming one set of beliefs while privately engaging in an entirely different set of activities. The members of the group are able to protect one another by vouching for each other. It's an interesting sociological phenomenon worth studying, as it occurs as subculture in virtually all power cultures. If you're interested, I recommend doing some research on "power and deviance," "workplace deviance," and "secret deviance" for starters.

EDIT: On the subject of Suicide... again, it's a form of deviant behaviour often linked to feelings of inadequacy and poor self-image. In fact, it's more likely that a member of a deviant subculture would commit suicide than a member of the normalized culture. As such, it's not altogether surprising that some deviant groups rationalize suicide within their belief structure... and that it is fully compatible with the hedonistic/deviant behaviour attributed to the particular group of extremists in question.

[Drake]

I was just kidding about that one. You seem to have acquired a good taste for gourmet. I remember you telling me about your appreciation of Afghan cuisine.:)



Whos is more likely to kill children, the religiously indoctrinated Taliban fighters, or Mac Donald frequenting, alcohol drinking, strip club appreciating, middle class, Western educated Arab kids? LOL!

Pakistanis, for one. I can't disclose a lot of this, but we have tangible, solid evidence that these mud-hut dwelling folks are doing dastardly deeds, including having them here in custody, me being there for the arrests, and me seeing the confessions.

What do you have? Sightseeing in Dubai?

[Drake]

And I know this is all abstract-fantasy land for you, but tread carefully. I've met the children they were going to use, and I've heard their stories, and I've seen Afghans cry over this ****. I've seen the guilty taken in, and I've heard some %^&$ed up confessions.

You sprinkle LOLs over your posts like it was some sort of %$#^ing joke, like some fun hobby to do when you come home. I, on the other hand, am dealing with child molestation, using children as %$#ing bombs, and a whole ton of **** I can't talk about.

Grow the $%^& up.

[wenshu]

Anyway, going back to being human, the other aspect of human character even stronger than what I mentioned above, is his aversion to take his own life, unless again, he is brainwashed and indoctrinated to a point where his concept of reality changes.

Religiously speaking, suicide bombers are the real devoot followers. It is difficult to believe that these people will kill themselves thinking that they will end up in heaven, but days before that "SIN", by drinking alcohol and frequent strip clubs, and if memory serves me correctly, they left a copy of the Koran in one of the clubs (as well as in their car)....LOL!


So murder suicide is only ever committed by religious zealots?

Your logically fallacious assumptions are contradicting each other. Al Qaeda and terrorism are fabrications but only true believers are terrorists?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hasty_generalization

[Hardwork108]

So, because I know that Muslims frequent McDonald's and work there as well, it means I like their food???? WTF
Sorry, my mistake, I mistook you for the type of people who swallow anything and everything, unless official sources tell them it is bad. Others who do are seen as tin hat wearing conspiracy theorists.



As to your other claims about extremists walking the talk... it's actually a fairly common phenomenon that extremists publicly follow certain limits BECAUSE of their deviant private behavior. Wolves in Sheep's clothing, hiding in plain sight and all that. Anti-gay Republicans who are actually closet-****sexuals, Priests who are pedophiles, Abusive parents who are child-support workers, Police officers who commit crimes... the list goes on and on and on. And IN that list, of course, we find religious zealots who use their zealotry to mask behaviour deemed unacceptable in their respective cultures... such as booze, or licentiousness, or eating non-sanctioned foods.
And what does that tell you? It tells you that despite their mind numbing religions, they enjoy the pleasures of life. Which in turn means that you are hardly going to find a person with that profile wanting to commit suicide, let alone a group of them!



Furthermore, it's common for individuals with deviant perspectives to seek out and form legitimizing groups with others who share the same perspectives. These groups are known as gangs, cults and sects. Their purpose is often to provide a safe haven for deviant behaviour by publicly claiming one set of beliefs while privately engaging in an entirely different set of activities. The members of the group are able to protect one another by vouching for each other. It's an interesting sociological phenomenon worth studying, as it occurs as subculture in virtually all power cultures. If you're interested, I recommend doing some research on "power and deviance," "workplace deviance," and "secret deviance" for starters.
Thank you, but I know exactly what you are talking about. I have lived in the UK as well and this kind of deviance, including child molestation is rampant within the power structures. Of course, it is always covered up because the pediophile rings involve policemen, politicians and law makers. So, yes I am familiar with the phenomenon.


EDIT: On the subject of Suicide... again, it's a form of deviant behaviour often linked to feelings of inadequacy and poor self-image. In fact, it's more likely that a member of a deviant subculture would commit suicide than a member of the normalized culture. As such, it's not altogether surprising that some deviant groups rationalize suicide within their belief structure... and that it is fully compatible with the hedonistic/deviant behaviour attributed to the particular group of extremists in question.
Yet, I don't see paediophiles in London or Washington's corridors of power, committing mass suicide. They may order wholesale mass murder, but they don't even do the deeds themselves, as not to risk getting hurt. They send the Drakes of this world to their killing - or liberation and spread of democracy, if you are naive.

The official version of the 9-11 shoots itself in the foot as regards this area of the story. We are supposed to believe that these guys were Islamic fanatics, shouting "Allah Akbar" all over the place. Their tendency to commit suicide was attributed to them being religious fanatics, which again they weren't, not by a long stretch of the imagination. Now, not wanting to admit that perhaps you were lied to, you are hypothesizing that these guys belonged to some special kind of a suicide cult? :rolleyes:

Let me say again, they are moderate muslims out there who do not touch alcohol, nor frequent lap dancing clubs. You also have moderate muslims out there who live a double life (and good on them, I say). However, it is going to be very difficult to find Islamic fanatics, or believers, if you like, who are religiously inclined enought to take their own lives (the ultimate sacrifice), yet somehow they could not say no boozing and lap dancing.

If you think this is a common occurance, then try and find suicide bombers in the Gaza strip that are one day westernized, middle class boozing and womanizing Arab young men, and the next day blowing themselves up.

[Hardwork108]

And I know this is all abstract-fantasy land for you, but tread carefully. I've met the children they were going to use, and I've heard their stories, and I've seen Afghans cry over this ****. I've seen the guilty taken in, and I've heard some %^&$ed up confessions.
Don't you think that you should first solve the problem of paediophilia amongst the US power elite, before worrying about the ones in Afghanistan?


You sprinkle LOLs over your posts like it was some sort of %$#^ing joke, like some fun hobby to do when you come home. I, on the other hand, am dealing with child molestation, using children as %$#ing bombs, and a whole ton of **** I can't talk about.

I can appreciate that, but again, the 9-11 SUSPECTS were not religious fanatics and if they weren't religious fanatics what made a dozen or so of these middle class, alcohol drinking, strip club frequenting Arab kids, commit suicide? The answer is that they were just patsies, nothing more!


Grow the $%^& up.

I will, if you will!;)

[Hardwork108]

So murder suicide is only ever committed by religious zealots?

Your logically fallacious assumptions are contradicting each other. Al Qaeda and terrorism are fabrications but only true believers are terrorists?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hasty_generalization

What you don't comprehend is the fact that your own governments are not by the people and for the people. Your leaders are handpicked (not by you, of course), psychopathic yes men. Your governments are "by the elite,for the elite". All the elections and "debates" that you are exposed to and are fooled into believing you have say in, are pure "theater".

Your leaders and politicians may be on opposite side of the spectrum, but they belong to the same secret or semi secret organizations, such the Freemasons, Council for Foreign Relations, Tri-lateral commission, etc. Check out and see who founded the last two bodies.

Anyway, these organizations have goals. So, your "left" and "right" wing politicians will belong to these same organizations, meaning that when they come to power, they will follow the goals of these organizations, no matter what their pre-election promises were. That is why rarely do things change. Look at Obama's pre-election promises and look at what happened when he came to power. Simple, it is all there in front of your noses.

What was orchestrated on 9-11 was just another step in the goals of the organizations mentioned. A false flag operation designed to get the desired public reaction.

People are so brainwashed that they come up with theories to justifies the huge holes in the official version of 9-11. Theories that are much more nuttier than any tin hat wearing real conspiracy theorist could ever hope to fabricate....LOL!

[Drake]

I'm glad you find this **** funny. This is why nobody takes you seriously, and this is why I'm no longer dealing with you.

Make fun of child molestation, children used as explosives, and 9/11 all you want. I'm not listening to it anymore. You are now on ignore. LOL all day, for all I care.

[wenshu]

What you don't comprehend is the fact that your own governments are not by the people and for the people. Your leaders are handpicked (not by you, of course), psychopathic yes men. Your governments are "by the elite,for the elite". All the elections and "debates" that you are exposed to and are fooled into believing you have say in, are pure "theater".

Your leaders and politicians may be on opposite side of the spectrum, but they belong to the same secret or semi secret organizations, such the Freemasons, Council for Foreign Relations, Tri-lateral commission, etc. Check out and see who founded the last two bodies.

Anyway, these organizations have goals. So, your "left" and "right" wing politicians will belong to these same organizations, meaning that when they come to power, they will follow the goals of these organizations, no matter what their pre-election promises were. That is why rarely do things change. Look at Obama's pre-election promises and look at what happened when he came to power. Simple, it is all there in front of your noses.

What was orchestrated on 9-11 was just another step in the goals of the organizations mentioned. A false flag operation designed to get the desired public reaction.

People are so brainwashed that they come up with theories to justifies the huge holes in the official version of 9-11. Theories that are much more nuttier than any tin hat wearing real conspiracy theorist could ever hope to fabricate....LOL!

Did you just realize that your position that only pious religious zealots ever commit suicide is a completely untenable gross oversimplification, because that would explain this awkwardly unfocused attempt at deflection. Your constant personal insinuations and bland repetitiveness are transparent tactics to distract from actually having to debate the particulars of your positions.

[bawang]

i support the elites. i for one welcome our illumnati overlords.


what has conspiracy theorists ever done for me? the elite give me job and money. i love the elites.

[Hardwork108]

I'm glad you find this **** funny. This is why nobody takes you seriously, and this is why I'm no longer dealing with you.
Either you are honestly misunderstanding me, or you are deliberately MIS-interpreting my comments.


Make fun of child molestation, children used as explosives, and 9/11 all you want. I'm not listening to it anymore. You are now on ignore. LOL all day, for all I care.
I am not making light of the matter of child molestation in Afghanistan, specially among the powerful people. I am merely informing you that this also happens in the power centers in Washington, London, etc. So, perhaps people like should first worry about the thousands of children who disappreat and/or are molested, raped, etc. in your end of the woods first.

I don't and never LOL at human tragedies, but in the limited way you and others here see these things.

I hope that things are clearer now.

[Hardwork108]

Did you just realize that your position that only pious religious zealots ever commit suicide is a completely untenable gross oversimplification, because that would explain this awkwardly unfocused attempt at deflection. Your constant personal insinuations and bland repetitiveness are transparent tactics to distract from actually having to debate the particulars of your positions.

We haved debated this stuff to death even in this very thread. The fact is that you are trapped in a limited reality whereby you assume that your governement would not carry out a false flag operaton killing her own citizens. This is your model and you refuse to think outside this, as a result your reality and "free thinking" is limited to within the walls of this model. As long as you refuse to believe that your government is not there to serve you (the people), but an elite who would not give you the time of the day, then you will be trapped in your limited reality, and will be continually suckered into giving your hard earned money and the remainder of your civil right away.

I am not "deflecting" anything. Perhaps the person who slanderously accused me of LOL-ing at human tragedies in Afghanistan, is "deflecting"?

The simplified fact is this. If you are not religious enough to follow a few basic rules required by your religion, rules that are even followed by non-fanatical moderates, then there is no way in hell that you are going to be religious enough to commit mass murder and suicide, in order to be rewarded by Allah, in heaven!!!

People who refuse to see this simple logic, are trapped in a cult like mentality, even more so than any suicide bomber! A cult mentality created since childhood, by an education system, helped by a mass media that is owned wholey by the same people who SELECT your psychopathic leaders!

If you are really interested, then research the role that charity foundations, set up by powerful corporate and banking elites, such as the Rockerfelers, and the role they play on the very fabric of your society and that of the world. Try to see research their world views and agendas. Find the real truth about them. A truth that goes beyond the myths sold to you by THEIR "free" press.

Also, I am still waiting for other examples of Western educated, alcohol drinking, strip club frequenting, middle class Arab kids, willing to blow themselves up, perhaps in Iraq, or the Gaza strip? I mean surely, if you like your alcohol, the sex and "non islamic" ways, then it is easier to leave car bomb somewhere, instead of taking your own life? And more practical and efficient as well, because you will live to fight another day?

[wenshu]

I'm going to ignore your assumptions about what I do and do not believe for now.

I can see why you refuse to offer anything more substantive than oblique references to strip clubs and booze. A second hand of account of "middle eastern looking men" expressing anti-american sentiments and leaving behind a quran. http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2001/09/14/miami-club.htm#more

I'm overwhelmed.

Since the "muslims don't drink therefore extremists would never drink" logic is so waterproof. . .http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Takfir_wal-Hijra


According to Dr. Mamoun Fandy, (an Egyptian-born professor of politics and senior fellow at the Baker Institute of Public Policy), followers are allowed to shave their beards, drink alcohol, visit topless bars and commit crimes against Westerners -- all under the cloak of subterfuge. "They are the mothers and fathers of sleeping cells."[3] They believe that the ends justify any means and, that killing other Muslims can be justified in their cause and that Western society is heathen and it is their duty to destroy it.

You never offer anything substantive, no evidence, no sources. You don't even approach the issue from different angles, all you do is repeat the same exact sentences word for word ad nauseum. I would call it intellectual masturbation but that would be giving you too much credit.

[Hardwork108]

I'm going to ignore your assumptions about what I do and do not believe for now.

I can see why you refuse to offer anything more substantive than oblique references to strip clubs and booze. A second hand of account of "middle eastern looking men" expressing anti-american sentiments and leaving behind a quran. http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2001/09/14/miami-club.htm#more

I'm overwhelmed.

Facts do that sometime!


Since the "muslims don't drink therefore extremists would never drink" logic is so waterproof. . .http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Takfir_wal-Hijra
YOu will notice that our US Military Intelligence officer who posts here, never provided this link to defend his arguments, and to my recollection, he never mentioned this sect either!

Secondly, where is the proof or as the involvement of this group, to what happened on 9-11. According to your Wiki article, this group was all but wiped out in the 1970s by the Egyptian military.

So, even if there are their small remenants or sympathisers still around, how can you link them to an organization that follow the Sharia law to the letter?

Thirdly, did you know that there are evangelic Christian groups who practice swinging/wife swapping? There is a lot of variety in religion. However, you would not think of them as the type of christians who would die for a cause, when compared to other more fundamental groups.

However, it is very unlikely for a person who does not follow his religion's BASIC laws, to then be such a believer that he takes his own life. Now multiply that with a dozen or so middle class, alcohol drinking, strip club attending, Arab "terrorists".

Surely, you see the logic in my point of view?




You never offer anything substantive, no evidence, no sources. You don't even approach the issue from different angles, all you do is repeat the same exact sentences word for word ad nauseum. I would call it intellectual masturbation but that would be giving you too much credit.

I would say the same about you. The proof that your leaders are dishonest psychopaths are all around you, even in your controlled media. You don't see it because you are hypnotised by years of indoctrination.

The countries in the West have been pillaging and mass murdering people in Africa, the Middle East and beyond for centuries, where they have even openly traded in narcotics. Yet, you and indoctrinated people like you discard that, because from a young age you were taught to believe that you lived in "democratic", human rights respecting and "free" countries.

Your own rights and wealth are being erroded by fantasy threat being presented to you (terrorism, global warming, economic crisis, epidemics, etc.), but you still don't smell the fish, because you are still in your childhook/adult programming mode.

I would suggest that you snap out of it!


EDIT: By the way, if I were you I would have look at connections between the Muslim Brotherhood and the British Intelligence, going back to the early part of the last century. The subject matter is a lot bigger than you could ever imagine!

[Xiao3 Meng4]

Murder-Suicide does not require the absence of hedonism to be acted out.

In the particular case in question, simple hatred and imagined glory could have been enough.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrEDo9ChSdQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwZ-vIaW6Bc&feature=related

[wenshu]

Surely, you see the logic in my point of view?


The only relationship to logic you have is by what and how many informal fallacies you employ in your overreaching inferences.

What is with your preoccupation with Drake and what does that have to do with me? You make reference to him in every post. What he links to has no authority or bearing whatsoever on what I write. No offense to Drake, he's a scholar and a gentleman.



According to your Wiki article, this group was all but wiped out in the 1970s by the Egyptian military.

Maybe you should try reading past the first sentence.


Takfir wal-Hijra has been described as "a matrix of terrorist cells - allied to bin Laden but often more extreme than him;"[2] "a group ... which inspired some of the tactics and methods used by Al Qaeda and whose ideology is being embraced by a growing number of Salafist jihadists living in Europe";[3] "a movement" that "began in Egypt in 1971" and by the 1990s had a "decentralised network" of "cells";[4] a name used to describe a wide variety of militant groups, that have little or no connection to each other.[5]

Not that any of this matters since your inferences are based on what some bar manager in Florida said about what a couple of middle eastern looking men told a bartender.

[Hardwork108]

Murder-Suicide does not require the absence of hedonism to be acted out.
You are right about the murder bit, but committing suicide while leaving a trail of Kurans all over the place????? Besides, can't you recognize evidence plants when you them?

Logic would suggest that if there were Western educated, alcohol drinking, strip club frequenting middle class kids out there, who for some reason decided inflict injury on a country that REPRESENTS their hedonistic lifestyle, would, instead of blowing themselves up as well (after all hedonistic people tend to love and enjoy life more than Islamic fanatics...LOL!), just leave car bombs or other devices on a dozen public location across the US? And live to tell about it? I mean what is the point of a hedonistic non-believer basking in glory when his whole being is vaporized (minus of course, his blessed by Allah, idestructible passport....LOL!)?

Look, we can go up and down, and in circles all we want, but the official version of 9-11 is full of holes - from beginning to the end I might add, including the "killing" and "burial" of Bin Laden. People like you argue, because they already have made up their minds that the powers that rule the US, would never do such a thing as a murderous false flag.

So, you work your logic, within the boundaries of your limited belief and perspective. If I can make a hypothetical parallel. You guys would be like the scientific types who do not believe in alien visits to earth, so much so that if one of them lands in your back yard, comes out of his space ship and pinches your nose, you will not accept what has happened, hence end up coming up with even more incredible theories as to why you had the experience that you had. That is, theories that are even more incredible than an alien pinching your nose.


In the particular case in question, simple hatred and imagined glory could have been enough.

Again, you are hypothesizing within a set perspective that refuses to accept the facts about the world we live in.

OK then. How many hedonistic, strip club frequenting, alcohol drinking, middle class Arab kids have blown themselves up in terrorist acts before 9-11, and how many since?

Why were we told by the official version of the events that these guys were Islamic fanatics?

Another question. Even if hedonistic, alcohol drinking, strip club frequenting, middle class arab SUICIDE terrorists were a reality, then wouldn't you think that it would have been easier for "Al Quaeds" to recruit, some real Islamic self mutilating fanatics? I mean there are many of them around! It would even be easier to recruit just the basic believers, many of whom have aversion to sex clubs and alcohol?

Again, the official version does not make sense and that is because it is total balloney! Besides, if what you say was true, meaning that there were suicidal hedonistic terrorists in this world, then we would have a suicide bomber blowing himself up somewhere in the West every five minutes. Don't laugh. I mean put all the actual true believer muslims who hate the West and add to them the alcohol drinking, strip club frequenting, middle class hedonistic Arabs, then is a short time the world would run out of bombs....LOL!




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrEDo9ChSdQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwZ-vIaW6Bc&feature=related


I will watch Chomsky's views later as I do not have good sound on my computer at he moment.

[Hardwork108]

The only relationship to logic you have is by what and how many informal fallacies you employ in your overreaching inferences.
The only relationship to logic you have is by how you stick to your indoctrinated version of reality.;)


What is with your preoccupation with Drake and what does that have to do with me? You make reference to him in every post. What he links to has no authority or bearing whatsoever on what I write. No offense to Drake,

Doing what he does, Drake is more informed of the official version of this event, as a result he would have been aware of your Wikipedia link, long before you. That is if it was a viable defense for your argument, and of course, he would have posted it before you, as well. ;)


he's a scholar and a gentleman.
Well, he is a gentleman for sure.:)



Maybe you should try reading past the first sentence.
I did! LOL!

Anyhow, I will try and deal with what Wiki tells us.


Takfir wal-Hijra has been described as "a matrix of terrorist cells - allied to bin Laden but often more extreme than him;"[2] "a group ... which inspired some of the tactics and methods used by Al Qaeda and whose ideology is being embraced by a growing number of Salafist jihadists living in Europe";[3] "a movement" that "began in Egypt in 1971" and by the 1990s had a "decentralised network" of "cells";[4] a name used to describe a wide variety of militant groups, that have little or no connection to each other

1. "Described" by WHOM?

2. Says WHO?

3. "decentralised network" of "cells" - is telling us that we don't know who they are, or where they are, as they are difficult to trace. READ: These alcohol drinking, strip club frequenting, hedonistic terrorists are really crafty, so we will have an indefinite war against them, and YOU citizen have to put up with your civil rights being erroded; your tax money being spent on [fantasy] wars; need to agree with international solutions/treaties/orgazinations for this Global problem (leading to a Global Government - NWO)

4. Same as above.


BY THE WAY, if any members of the intelligence/military community are reading this, may I suggest that whenever you suspect an iminente fanatical Islamic attack in a given city, then make sure that you put surveillance teams in all local lap dancing clubs and even keep an eye on the swingers clubs, as well. These are of course, places where most people would expect to bump into suicidal Islamic fanatics. :rolleyes:




Not that any of this matters since your inferences are based on what some bar manager in Florida said about what a couple of middle eastern looking men told a bartender.

You must have missed something, because no one here is denying that they were alcohol drinking and strip club frequenting, middle class Arab kids.

So, are you saying that they weren't? LOL!

[hskwarrior]

**** Qadaffi.......KIM Jong il is dead.. hahaha

[Xiao3 Meng4]

Again, you are hypothesizing within a set perspective that refuses to accept the facts about the world we live in.

Who's hypothesizing?


Hedonistic calculated suicide is decided upon as a result of a certain sort of cost/benefit calculation seeing that others will be unaffected by his decision, the hedonistic calculator regards his choice as determined by his best estimate of the balance of pleasure and pain he expects to receive under such option.

Article Source: http://EzineArticles.com/269479

Wenshu is right. Your extreme narcissism deprives you of any realistic perspective.

I doubt you'll watch those vids.

[Hardwork108]

Who's hypothesizing?
You guys are.

You refuse to come out of your indoctrinated view of the world. You refuse to see that your governments are run by psychopaths that are sending armies to slaughter other human beings all over the planet, in order to steal their countries' wealth and for long term political control agendas.

You refuse to see that false flag attacks like the 9-11 attacks are just that, FALSE FLAGS!

You refuse to acknowledge that you do not live in democratic countries. That your leaders are SELECTED by the private corporate banking cartels that run every aspect of your lives.

You refuse to see that you are heading for a world government. Somehow, you miss all the attempts - many successful - at CENTRALIZING worldwide power, through scams such as the "Man Made Global Warming threat"; "threats from epidemics"; "the terrorist threat", etc.

Yes, you refuse to see that you are being herded like mindless sheep towards a totaletarian world government, even when the corrupt politicians in charge of herding you there, mention in more and more, by making references to the New World Order.

WHY are you so lost? Because you are victims of high level sofiscticated propaganda, which even your friend Chomsky has referred to somewhere. I will try and find the clip for you to watch!




Wenshu is right. Your extreme narcissism deprives you of any realistic perspective.
What is depriving the likes of you and wenshu from seeing the world for what it is, besides the usual egotistical aspects, is the fact that you are indoctrinated to think within set parameters.


I doubt you'll watch those vids.
Don't bet on me not watching those videos. Unlike some people, I like to see every side of the given debate. All things well, I will be at the computer in my business tomorrow during the day, where with access to my headphones, I will watch the videos.

[Shǎguā]

Re: ^^^

I love Irony.



Wouldn't it be Ironic if the whole truther movement was actually promoted by Al Qaeda?

Hardwork as an unwitting, "sofiscticated" Al Qaeda operative.... well, the "unwitting" part fits...

[Hardwork108]

Re: ^^^

I love Irony.



Wouldn't it be Ironic if the whole truther movement was actually promoted by Al Qaeda?

Hardwork as an unwitting, "sofiscticated" Al Qaeda operative.... well, the "unwitting" part fits...

It would be extremely ironic, because I am not in the truth movement.

That reminds me, why it it take "Al Quaeda", the mindless Islamic suicidal fanatics - as sold to us by the controlled media - so long to "confess", if they ever did, except for some CIA manufactured video clips?

Were they afraid to be killed and meet Allah? LOL!

[David Jamieson]

i support the elites. i for one welcome our illumnati overlords.


what has conspiracy theorists ever done for me? the elite give me job and money. i love the elites.

That's because you have access to Jobs and Money.

I think HW108 lives in a third world country rife with crime and corruption.
So he fantasizes about being American...

You know the problems with fantasies though... :p

PS - if you go anywhere that has death as a daily serving for your eyes, you will eventually not have a problem with it, even your own. I think this is something that is lost on most people in western liberal democracies. They are afraid of the inevitable and worry about it and create weird wild ass constructs around the possibilities of it and so on.

It's just death! Hope that you don't lose your health first and linger like some useless wart waiting to die while everyone else is burdened with your ass.

Life is valuable, but lets not undermine the value of death either.

[Lucas]

the sword that takes life can also give it!!

[wenshu]

It would be extremely ironic, because I am not in the truth movement.

That reminds me, why it it take "Al Quaeda", the mindless Islamic suicidal fanatics - as sold to us by the controlled media - so long to "confess", if they ever did, except for some CIA manufactured video clips?


How do you manage to do that in almost everything you post? It's very rare to actually meet someone who without any sense of irony will say one thing and then in the very next sentence, completely and utterly contradict themselves. I mean, do you think that everybody somehow immediately forgets what you just said in the preceding sentence? It must be exhausting.

I'm not a truther. . .that reminds me, I'm a truther.

I'll humor your blatant contradiction. You're right, you are not a truther. Truthers generally are very imaginative and creative in their efforts to think up new lines of inquiry into their delusions of grandeur. You just repeat the one sentence you remember from the synopsis of a Nafeez Ahmed book you skimmed over once.

[Hardwork108]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrEDo9ChSdQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwZ-vIaW6Bc&feature=related

OK. Chomsky, ironically agrees with my (and that of many others') view, that 9-11 was used by the Western "democratic" countries to impose controls and "discipline" their own populations. Of course, he does not believe it to be an inside job.

He makes many assumptions about the validity of the suspicions and the implied impossibility of the Bush government getting away with it - as regards 9-11 not being an inside job, as well as what he calls "coincidences". I believe that he undersestimates degree of the population's indoctrination, including his own. He is obviously an intelligent man, but then again, Nazi Germany was full of intelligent men who gave their minds away to the system - of course, others knew the game all along - I am not denying that.

Anyway, many other intelligent men do agree with him, and of course, many DON'T!

I found his comments regarding the JFK assassination a little weird. After all, a later official investigation concluded that there was a likely conspiracy to kill him. That in itself opens a great can of worms, because even if we are presented with many who would have had the motive to kill him, only the government and intelligence agencies could keep the lid on it the way they have done for decades!

So, that mere fact would put Chomsky's assumption that something would have leaked out, if 9-11 was an inside job, into more doubt.

If you want to discuss a distinct point that he might have made in his presentations/interviews, then I am all willing to explore it.


Here is Chomsky, discussing his book "Manufactured Consent" (behavior modifications, mind control, etc.), among other things with Alex Jones. Yes, you read right! ;)



PART 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSXFX8bM6s8&feature=related

PART 2.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctZBtf9Y4f4&feature=related

PART 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aygXdCsYO5s

PART 4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwjK07gEpCM&feature=related

PART 5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0APTn1EPg9E&feature=related


So, MIT professor Noam Chomsky, can take Alex Jones seriously enough to give him a 5 part interview, but some numb nut knuckleheads can ridiculethe same Alex Jones?

As always, it is never too late for people to open their minds and start seeing where they are being herded!

All of the above and everything else discussed so far by me are facts. What people fail to do is connecting the dots, and that is because of their programming!

Of course, most people reading this thread are too dumbed down to have the attention span to watch the whole 5 parts!

SO SAD!


.


.

[Lebaufist]

Truther = racist.

Anybody that says otherwise is probably white.

[Hardwork108]

That's because you have access to Jobs and Money.
So do I! I have my own business and do have properties in a couple of other countries.


I think HW108 lives in a third world country rife with crime and corruption.
Hey, the corruption crime and corruption in Colombia has to quadruple before it even gets close to that of North America and Western Europe - believe me!

Furthermore, at least here in this country, you can see the crime and corruption, while most people in the "First World (:rolleyes:)" countries are dumbed down so much with all the song and dance about their fantasy "democracy", "human rights", "justice", etc, that they don't feel the ,@nal pain as their utterly corrupt system screws them, day in day out, out of their wealth and the remenants of their civil rights!



So he fantasizes about being American...
Why would a person living in a "Third World" country, fantasize about being a citizen of another soon to be Third World country?:confused:


You know the problems with fantasies though... :p

PS - if you go anywhere that has death as a daily serving for your eyes, you will eventually not have a problem with it, even your own. I think this is something that is lost on most people in western liberal democracies. They are afraid of the inevitable and worry about it and create weird wild ass constructs around the possibilities of it and so on.

Really? So, if you live in war zone and are lucky enough to get out of it so as to frequent strip clubs, bars and drink alcohol, then you are still not going to have problems committing mass suicide with your fellow middle class, alcohol drinking, Arab hedonistic friends? LOL

Besides, I had no idea that the middle class, strip club frequenting, alcohol drinking Arab kids were brought up in a war zone....LOL

And that is one of the weaknesses of the official version. None of these kids seemed to have experienced death and destruction, not to mention running street battles in places such as the Gaza. They were, how can I put it, oh yes, middle class, Western educated, alcohol drinking, strip club frequenting, young Arab men.....


By the way, you never came back and told me about what you thought about the THE GUARDIAN article?


It's just death! Hope that you don't lose your health first and linger like some useless wart waiting to die while everyone else is burdened with your ass.

Life is valuable, but lets not undermine the value of death either.

I hope that the above statement was not a hint of a forth coming plane hijacking by David Jamieson and smashing it against some well known buildings in Bogota, after one of his Islamic style Whisky drinking binges, of course....:eek::D

[Hardwork108]

How do you manage to do that in almost everything you post? It's very rare to actually meet someone who without any sense of irony will say one thing and then in the very next sentence, completely and utterly contradict themselves. I mean, do you think that everybody somehow immediately forgets what you just said in the preceding sentence? It must be exhausting.

I'm not a truther. . .that reminds me, I'm a truther.

I'll humor your blatant contradiction. You're right, you are not a truther. Truthers generally are very imaginative and creative in their efforts to think up new lines of inquiry into their delusions of grandeur. You just repeat the one sentence you remember from the synopsis of a Nafeez Ahmed book you skimmed over once.

Simple, I don't belong to the political movement referred to as the "truthers"!

The biggest contradictions are yours and people like you. The facts are infront of you but you fail to see them because of your long term indoctrination. It is like a hypnotist that convinces someone that the table infront of them is not there, so they just don't see it. You are HYPNOTIZED.

Open your mind, forget your ego and break free!

[Dragonzbane76]

I think you go beyond demented phobia narsassis. Even tin foil hat wearing conspiracy theorists think your a wacky job. Your also in short, a bag full of Di(k.

[Hardwork108]

I think you go beyond demented phobia narsassis. Even tin foil hat wearing conspiracy theorists think your a wacky job. Your also in short, a bag full of Di(k.

Well, I am kind of well endowed in that department, so thank you for your (out of place) compliment. If you were a woman, instead of some efeminate, confused male, then we could even arrange to meet up.:cool:

Seriously, if you have nothing to contribute to the discussion go back to watching cartoons or whatever it is that you do when you are not having the remainder of your brain cells pounded out existance in your MMA training.

Thanks in advance!:rolleyes:

[Shǎguā]

I think it's awesome how you treat assumption as fact, then go off and tell others that their facts are assumptions. That South Atlantic Anomaly really ****s with your filters, doesn't it.


You guys would be like the scientific types who do not believe in alien visits to earth, so much so that if one of them lands in your back yard, comes out of his space ship and pinches your nose, you will not accept what has happened, hence end up coming up with even more incredible theories as to why you had the experience that you had. That is, theories that are even more incredible than an alien pinching your nose.



Do you believe the world governments are infiltrated by reptilian invaders too?

[Dragonzbane76]

Contribute? Well actually no. But I thought i was in good company for you never contribute anything but your lunacy and repeated drivel.

The only one confused here is you sir. You take an insult and try to turn it into a date . :)

[Hardwork108]

I think it's awesome how you treat assumption as fact, then go off and tell others that their facts are assumptions.
Please enlighten me as to what you consider to be my "assumptions"!



That South Atlantic Anomaly really ****s with your filters, doesn't it.
May be there is an "anomaly" in the North Atlantic you are not told about? LOL



Do you believe the world governments are infiltrated by reptilian invaders too?
From where I am sitting, it is a large portion of their populations that are acting like brainless reptiles, on survival mode, that is they are eternally trapped in a survival mode, and which is by design as well, believe or not!

[Hardwork108]

Contribute? Well actually no.

Thank you. Now run along and begone, because the Disney Chanel waiteth for you and your two brain cells.

PS. Say hello to Donald Duck for me.....:D

[David Jamieson]

Let's all chill on the name calling.

fecks sake.

[Hardwork108]

Let's all chill on the name calling.

fecks sake.
He started it! :D

[Syn7]

i will never understand why people cant fathom the fact that two massive towers comming down hard and fast couldnt shake down a third and significantly smaller building on the same site. anyone involved in counstruction will tell you that what you dont see when multiple towers are erected on the same site is that they are connected below the surface. its not like its just loose dirt between these towers. there is millions of tons of concrete and rebar joining these sites and what affects one can affect the others.

now im not saying that i know how the third building went down. im just saying that it is quite possible that it fell on its own after being severely damaged from the ground up. the opposite of what took the other two down, but yielding similar results.

i find it very annoying that all these armchair experts keep telling everyone how they know the truth and everyone else is just too shortsighted to see the truth that is so obvious to them.

[Hardwork108]

i will never understand why people cant fathom the fact that two massive towers comming down hard and fast couldnt shake down a third and significantly smaller building on the same site. anyone involved in counstruction will tell you that what you dont see when multiple towers are erected on the same site is that they are connected below the surface. its not like its just loose dirt between these towers. there is millions of tons of concrete and rebar joining these sites and what affects one can affect the others.

now im not saying that i know how the third building went down. im just saying that it is quite possible that it fell on its own after being severely damaged from the ground up. the opposite of what took the other two down, but yielding similar results.

i find it very annoying that all these armchair experts keep telling everyone how they know the truth and everyone else is just too shortsighted to see the truth that is so obvious to them.

You are talking about an "earth quake effect". Yet, in such cases buildings do not come down perfectly into their own footsteps. Also, how come other buildings did not suffer the same way?

Why is the mainstream media generally avoiding the subject of the collapse of the Building 7 in order to seek answers to the points raised? I mean many people I have talked to are not even aware that there was a third building collapse!

And to put the final nail in the coffin of the building 7 collapse being a result of "natural causes", here is the business man Larry Silverstein, the lease holder of World Trade Center (and said to have raised the insurance on the buildings some months before their destruction), a man involved in the conspiracy up to his neck, talking about the decision to PULL DOWN THE BUILDING.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WYdAJQV100

Of course, this is "fake", because it is on Youtube! :rolleyes:


.
Then one wonders what that rather complex article about how Building 7 collapsed, in the Popular Mechanics or Scientific American magazine (can't remember which one - "short memory" I guess), was all about, besides being an orchestrated attempt to debunk the "conspiracy" theorists?

Oh yes, I almost forgot, the media is owned and controlled by Banking and Corporate elites, that own and control your and my (as a result totally corrupt) governments!!!!


.

[Syn7]

.......and why do you you keep repeating yourself?



Duh, OK, Dr. Goebbels.

[Hardwork108]

.......and why do you you keep repeating yourself?



Duh, OK, Dr. Goebbels.

When one attempts to explain complicated (for some) issues, but the points don't sink in, then one resorts to repeating oneself.

By the way, way to avoid the important issues raised. The problem with you guys is that you don't give a d@mn about the truth, you are just concerned with being right. When important factors are pointed out, showing that you may be wrong about what you think to be right, then instead of manning up, you go into ego self defense mode.

So far you, Syn (earthquakes in New York)7, David (The Guardian is conspiracy site) Jamieson, Drake (The US is only trying to help the world, because she cares) and Wenshu have been guilty of this......

[Shǎguā]

When one attempts to explain complicated (for some) issues, but the points don't sink in, then one resorts to repeating oneself.

"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again but expecting different results." - Rita Mae Brown, 'Sudden Death,' 1983.


By the way, way to avoid the important issues raised.

You mean like ignoring precedent instances of fragile objects surviving high-energy events? You mean like dismissing unequivocal climate data? You mean like shunning the 9/11 findings of physicists and engineers the world over? You mean like refusing to acknowledge points made regarding suicide bombers?

You mean like that?

The only differences between you and an Al Qaeda intelligence operative are
- intelligence
- their awareness of the fact that they're lying
- a Swiss bank account.

Way to be a patsy. No soup for you.

[Hardwork108]

"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again but expecting different results." - Rita Mae Brown, 'Sudden Death,' 1983.

Well, HOPING for different results, for sure! :cool:



You mean like ignoring precedent instances of fragile objects surviving high-energy events?
You are kidding, right? LOL!

Passport made out of paper, blessed by "Allah" and carried into an aircraft by an alcohol drinking and strip club frequenting middle class Arab man, who was never brought up in war zone (hence did not have the excuse of being traumatised into suicidal behavior - once his non-religiousness was uncovered).

Ask any physicist, even a ones bought and paid for by the system the out come of Fireball (that supposedly was hot enough to bring the Towers down into their own foot prints) VS. paper passport.

Also, find out how many OTHER passports survived the crashes? LOL!



You mean like dismissing unequivocal climate data?
You mean "unequivocal" data that has somehow ignores the hotter than now Middle Ages? When they say, "weather changes since records began", they conveniently started their records AFTER this warm period!

Besides, the climate is currently getting colder, including here in South America, where we have had unusually colder and rainier weather. Of course, in such cases, the manipulators change their story from "Man made Global Warming" to "Climate Change"....LOL!

Have look at this, at it raises some valid points, if you are really interested, it is intelligent, humorous and even some what sarcastic, but you will be better informed after you watch it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SN1d3BE3GI

The idea of "man made global warming" is a SCAM, live with it!



You mean like shunning the 9/11 findings of physicists and engineers the world over?

It is funny that you should mention the "world". I was living in Rio de Janeiro, Brasil at the time of 9-11 attacks. On the evening or the next day (can't remember) a senior civil engineer was interviewed about the collapse. He said that there was not way that the buildings could have collapsed that way from the aircrafts hitting the Towers. He said that it was done MANUALLY. This is before all the "wack job conspiracy theories" !!! I understand that other scientists and engineers hold the same views as our Brasilian friend, but just the Global Warming "deniars" they are not given the same platform in the controlled media.


You mean like refusing to acknowledge points made regarding suicide bombers?
From where I am sitting, it is you guys and millions of brainwashed people like you who refuse to see that no middle class alcohol drinking, strip club frequenting Arab guy - let alone, more than a dozen of them- are going to commit suicide attacks over the most protected airspace on the planet (where they had a great chance of not succeeding and dying in vain), where any other day they would have been shot out of the sky just like some unfortunate pigeons, within minutes of interception.

Furthermore, "Al Qaeda" (:rolleyes: ), the organization (:rolleyes:) that apparently prides itself in its Islamic doctrine, is not going to send people who do nothing to represent the Islamic codes as preached by them, to commit "iconic" attacks against the West, specially when they would probably get hundreds of authentically religious fanatics across the Middle East!

IT IS ALL BALONEY!!!!!


You mean like that?

The only differences between you and an Al Qaeda intelligence operative are
- intelligence
That is true, I am kind of intelligent, where as the operatives you mention are confused by people and concepts above their heads.:D

Of course, I am not including the high level intelligence operatives that are in on it all the way from the beginning to the end.


- their awareness of the fact that they're lying

Oh yes, we all know that politicians and leaders in the West don't lie....LOL!

We also know that one of the deciding factors in choosing Western Intelligence operatives is their abilities to be honest! LOL!

Infact, the CIA has a proud history of telling the truth to the nation....LOL!



- a Swiss bank account.
Wow, I didn't see that one coming! LOL

Are you saying that Western Intelligence, as well as their utterly corrupt leaders do not have Swiss bank accounts? :rolleyes:

Also, you should try and find out who owns those Swiss banks that hold all that money from drugs laundering, arms sales and funds for illegal activities - most of it put there by Western interests, while they are screwing the rest of the world.

You will probably find that most of those bankers are the same ones who own the PRIVATELY owned Federal Reserve.

OR,

do you think that Switzerland's banking "status" was created for the benefit of the "Third" world drug lords and so called terrorists?

Lots of food for thought for you above.


Way to be a patsy. No soup for you.
You know, you should stop talking to yourself in that manner. If you show more self respect, perhaps your mind will be more willing to grow and increase its scope of perception.;)

[Syn7]

When one attempts to explain complicated (for some) issues, but the points don't sink in, then one resorts to repeating oneself.

By the way, way to avoid the important issues raised. The problem with you guys is that you don't give a d@mn about the truth, you are just concerned with being right. When important factors are pointed out, showing that you may be wrong about what you think to be right, then instead of manning up, you go into ego self defense mode.

So far you, Syn (earthquakes in New York)7, David (The Guardian is conspiracy site) Jamieson, Drake (The US is only trying to help the world, because she cares) and Wenshu have been guilty of this......

nah, none of us can be bothered to respond to your novels of repetetive rhettoric. been there done that. it's an exercise in futility. now i just toss barbs, drag hooks and trawl a lil bit. totally up to you if you want to participate. but don't expect me to take you seriously. i gave you a shot two years ago. we be done wit that.

but i will adress one thing for you cause it's sort of funny. you really believe an earthquake cant bring down a tower that way? im sure youtube is full of falling buildings. take a look. but i won't be. so don't bother to go on and on about it.

[wenshu]

Someone needs to explain to this strange, sad little man the universal law of the interwebs.

The eagerness with which an anonymous individual on the internet displays great pride in their own intelligence, looks and sexual prowess is inversely proportional to its truthfulness.

Moving on.

Some palestinian suicide bombings have been carried out by marxist groups. So much for the dimwitted argument about the behavior of muslim fanatics.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Terrorism/pflp.html

Oh, wait, Drake didn't post it first so the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine is completely invalid just like the Takfirs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Takfir_wal-Hijra

He comes up with some weird ass arguments to not have to face anything substantive that doesn't immediately gratify his myopic, self serving world view.

What kind of simpleton thinks economic strata somehow precludes suicide. Some of the most miserable people I know are filthy rich.

Or that terrorism has anything at all to do with religion (outside of its use as a recruitment tool.) Terrorism is a political act. Usually used against foreign occupiers and their supporters.

There are a lot of people here (myself included) who have a great deal of healthy distrust for the global political and economic leadership. The problem is that HW108 makes anyone who might agree with him look bad with the completely asinine arguments he makes and his desperate need to constantly gratify his unjustifiable anonymous internet swagger.

It's kind of sad really.

[Hardwork108]

Someone needs to explain to this strange, sad little man the universal law of the interwebs.
Well I am trying to explain it to you but you (and other indoctrinated egoist characters here) are just not getting it!

By the way, why are you referring to yourself in the third person?:confused:


The eagerness with which an anonymous individual on the internet displays great pride in their own intelligence, looks and sexual prowess is inversely proportional to its truthfulness.
I have pride in my intelligence, but that is not the issue. The issue is the somewhat lack of intelligence in this thread.

As for sexual prowess, that was just comment off somebody else's statements!

As for any comments as regards my looks, then that is all in your imagination, much like alcohol drinking, strip club frequenting, middle class Arab kids - MORE THAN A DOZEN OF THEM - committing suicide and mass murder! LOL!


Moving on.
Thank god! :rolleyes:


Some palestinian suicide bombings have been carried out by marxist groups. So much for the dimwitted argument about the behavior of muslim fanatics.
By Marxit groups, you mean Marxist FANATICS - that is, FANATICAL behavior?

To my knowledge, the 9-11 "terrorists" did not represent any Marxist fantatical groups. Even the official version calls them Islamic Fanatics/Terrorist. You can jump up and down, and cry all you want, but frequenting strip clubs, drinking alcohol, while being brought up in a Western fashion do not fit the MO of an Islamic suicidal fanatic!




Oh, wait, Drake didn't post it first so the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine is completely invalid just like the Takfirs.
What you posted was invalid for other reasons.





What kind of simpleton thinks economic strata somehow precludes suicide. Some of the most miserable people I know are filthy rich.
It is not JUST the economic strata, but he combination of being rich, alcohol drinking and strip club frequenting, at the same time, while committing suicide and mass murder, in the name of a religion and a way of life that strictly prohibits such hedonistic endeavors! LOL!


Or that terrorism has anything at all to do with religion (outside of its use as a recruitment tool.) Terrorism is a political act. Usually used against foreign occupiers and their supporters.

You are waffling.

To even recruit people using religion, the recruiters have do so by indoctrinating the religion into the person - brain washing him. I don´t recall seeing any reports about alcohol drinking and strip club frequenting behavior being trained in the Islamic "terrorist" camps in Afghanistan and Pakistan. Or do they just go for a drink and lap dancing sessions during their weekend breaks from "terrorist" training? LOL!

The "Al Quaeda" attack had "Islam" written all over it and that was according to the official version. So you can call it "political", but we were warned about the ISLAMIC terrorist threat and suicidal fanatics. That was the trauma factor of "merciless religious fanatics who listened to no reason and were there to destroy us". Yes, religious fantatics! ISLAMIC fanatics, NOT marxist ones...LOL!

Why do you think that Kurans were planted all over the place, and not copies of the Communist Manifesto?!


There are a lot of people here (myself included) who have a great deal of healthy distrust for the global political and economic leadership.
I would hazard a guess that whatever opposition that you have to the global economic leadership is well within acceptable parameters set by the same global elite, hence it is CONTROLLED OPPOSITION....;)

Here, if you wan't an alternative and valid scientific view, then have a look at the scientific questions presented here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XRMrMdn0NQ


The problem is that HW108 makes anyone who might agree with him look bad with the completely asinine arguments he makes and his desperate need to constantly gratify his unjustifiable anonymous internet swagger.
Again, your ego is stopping you from seeing the truth in what I say. This is not about me, it is about waking up people!!!


It's kind of sad really.
It won't be when you wake up! ;)

[Hardwork108]

nah, none of us can be bothered to respond to your novels of repetetive rhettoric. been there done that. it's an exercise in futility. now i just toss barbs, drag hooks and trawl a lil bit. totally up to you if you want to participate. but don't expect me to take you seriously. i gave you a shot two years ago. we be done wit that.


When or if your intelligence increases, then you can give me another "shot" in a decade or two....




but i will adress one thing for you cause it's sort of funny. you really believe an earthquake cant bring down a tower that way? im sure youtube is full of falling buildings. take a look. but i won't be. so don't bother to go on and on about it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XRMrMdn0NQ

Of course, you are not interested in any alternative view that scares you out of your comfort zone. You are ignoring all the views and testaments I present, in short, saying the usual "our government wouldnd't do that".

The fact is that THEY DID!

You can hide your head in the sand or you can wake up and smell the fish!

[Xiao3 Meng4]

Hey, Hardwork108:

http://www.gethandbag.com/images/024-idiot.gif


I think we should all print one of these out and fill it in using Hardwork's posts.


http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_HBsL2OopbJQ/Rjw4n0nhTHI/AAAAAAAAAAM/mnOkCp_qlmk/s400/Credo%2BMinadin.gif

If you think you have a Bingo, post the square titles and appropriate quote from Hardwork to confirm. First person to get a Bingo can claim Hardwork as his/her *****.

[Hardwork108]

Hey, Hardwork108:

http://www.gethandbag.com/images/024-idiot.gif

Whoops, I did not know that you lived in the same village as myself. Give me a few hours and I will come and fetch you and take you back to the village, so that they can stop worrying about their "idiot".



I think we should all print one of these out and fill it in using Hardwork's posts.


http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_HBsL2OopbJQ/Rjw4n0nhTHI/AAAAAAAAAAM/mnOkCp_qlmk/s400/Credo%2BMinadin.gif

If you think you have a Bingo, post the square titles and appropriate quote from Hardwork to confirm. First person to get a Bingo can claim Hardwork as his/her *****.

If you have so much free time on your hand, then you would be better advised to take yourself and your indoctrinated "brain" and see the questions raised by EXPERTS, in the following documentary:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XRMrMdn0NQ

Then you can discuss individual points raised, if you wish, while forgetting your "intellectual" ego and also without being scared out of your wits, as regards the real world geo politics and going defensive on us.

Anyway, if you like we can discuss this more while I am taking you back to the village.....:D


PS. I told the rest of the villagers that you are fine and that their village idiot will be joining them soon. I explained that some real world political facts had terrified you into "running away". ;)

[Drake]

I have the mong bat on ignore, so I can't reference anything. And I am unwilling to take him off of ignore for the sake of the game.

I think the only thing he doesn't fall under is the "smoking weed" square. He's never brought it up here, anyway...

[Hardwork108]

I have the mong bat on ignore, so I can't reference anything. And I am unwilling to take him off of ignore for the sake of the game.

I think the only thing he doesn't fall under is the "smoking weed" square. He's never brought it up here, anyway...
Thank you Drake.

Your Military Intelligence training did not fail you above, I do not take drugs! Have never taken drugs and will never take them! I hazard a guess that some of your military colleagues will be more familiar with the intake of narcotics, as well as their import/export judging by the success story of the multiplied opium harvests in Afghanistan after the US invasion. I guess, they also have to be whacked out of their brains in order to believe some the BS their superiors pass down to you as "information", "evidence", "explanations", etc. LOL!

However, if you really want to know, I am only addicted to kebabs! :D

Merry Xmas!:)


PS. Whoops, I almost forgot: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XRMrMdn0NQ



.

[Syn7]

Of course, you are not interested in any alternative view that scares you out of your comfort zone. You are ignoring all the views and testaments I present, in short, saying the usual "our government wouldnd't do that".

The fact is that THEY DID!

You can hide your head in the sand or you can wake up and smell the fish!

why do you continue to tell me what i think?

i think you're so used to saying that, it's just natural for you now. it's you're 'go to'... i dont disagree with everything you say. but i still think you're the robot. you're way more indoctrinated than a guy like drake could ever be.

[Syn7]

I have the mong bat on ignore, so I can't reference anything. And I am unwilling to take him off of ignore for the sake of the game.

I think the only thing he doesn't fall under is the "smoking weed" square. He's never brought it up here, anyway...

why you pigeon holin' people drake? are you working right now?

i like weed smokers. maaad chill people. a breath of fresh air when the norm is knucklehead alcaholic. i guess we all have our vices tho.

[Hardwork108]

why you pigeon holin' people drake? are you working right now?

i like weed smokers. maaad chill people. a breath of fresh air when the norm is knucklehead alcaholic. i guess we all have our vices tho.

Some smoke their neurons to the wind, while others drink themselves senseless, but HW108's only vice is the incestant banging of sexy babes. :D

[wenshu]

HW108's only vice is the incestant banging of sexy babes. :D

http://i.imgur.com/pCiIP.jpg

[Hardwork108]

http://i.imgur.com/pCiIP.jpg

You too eh? I guess all the chicks you bang are fat......LOL!

By the way, nice picture. Was this taken before or after your "MA" journey? Honestly speaking, I had no idea that the Mcdojos you guys practice in also served junk food.....:eek:

[Drake]

why you pigeon holin' people drake? are you working right now?

i like weed smokers. maaad chill people. a breath of fresh air when the norm is knucklehead alcaholic. i guess we all have our vices tho.

What in the hell are you talking about?

[Syn7]

Some smoke their neurons to the wind, while others drink themselves senseless, but HW108's only vice is the incestant banging of sexy babes. :D

and what apears to be a massive inferiority complex which causes one to brag about all the ***** they ain't gettin'...

[Dragonzbane76]

lol wenshu...

HW tries so hard to blow it off but deep down he knows this is his true self. :p


http://i.imgur.com/pCiIP.jpg

[Lucas]

"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again but expecting different results." - Rita Mae Brown, 'Sudden Death,' 1983..

Just being a dik here but that quote is actually attributed to Albert Einstien.


:p

[Shǎguā]

Just being a dik here but that quote is actually attributed to Albert Einstien.


:p

MIS-attributed, apparently. I also thought that it was Einstein's, but didn't remember the exact wording and when I did a search, I came up with this kind of stuff:


Who first said the definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over and expect different results?

Answer

The answer isn't really known but current consensus is that it came from the author Rita Mae Brown in her book Sudden Death on Pg. 68 from 1983.

Quote: "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again but expecting different results."

Most people will attribute this quote to Albert Einstein but there is no evidence to suggest that he made this statement.

This quote "Insanity is repeating the same mistakes and expecting different results" appears in the Basic Text of Narcotics Anonymous which was copyrighted in 1982 and later published in 1983. It is found on page 11 of the final "Review Form" which was distributed to the fellowship in November of 1981. It is found on page 23 of the current sixth edition.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Who_first_said_the_definition_of_insanity_is_to_do _the_same_thing_over_and_over_and_expect_different _results


In her book The Ultimate Quotable Einstein, p. 474, Alice Calaprice list this aphorism among those misattributed to Einstein. She also cites Rita Mae Brown's book Sudden Death as the actual source, with thanks to Barbara Wolff. Wjh 01:19, 5 February 2011 (UTC)
It does appear in the 1983 Brown novel, on page 68 (according to Google Books).

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Talk:Albert_Einstein#definition_of_insanity...

So the general consensus is that the quote is not Einstein's, and the Narcotics Anonymous Quote from 1981 (found on Page 11 here (http://amonymifoundation.org/uploads/NA_Approval_Form_Scan.pdf)) is worded slightly differently. Ergo my attribution to Rita Mae. :)

[Lucas]

Pwnd!!!!

;)

[Hardwork108]

"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again but expecting different results." - Rita Mae Brown, 'Sudden Death,' 1983


Just being a dik here but that quote is actually attributed to Albert Einstien.
:p

Yes Lucas, but didn't you know that this forum is full of "Einsteins"?;)

So, you are both right!:D

[Hardwork108]

and what apears to be a massive inferiority complex which causes one to brag about all the ***** they ain't gettin'...
Well actually I was bragging about the beauty and the sexiness of women here in Colombia, but don't let that stop your feelings of p&nis envy (and the same goes for Wenshu and our chartered Disney Club member friend, Dragonzbane).....LOL, LOL, LOL!

[Dragonzbane76]

Your excessive use of "LOL" spotted throughout your text is childish, but that does not not suprise me in the least.

[Hardwork108]

Your excessive use of "LOL" spotted throughout your text is childish, but that does not not suprise me in the least.

Happy people LOL and what can I say, you guys and your "lazer thin" vision of reality makes me "happy"! ;)

[Lucas]

hey i use really big lazers!!

[Hardwork108]

hey i use really big lazers!!

If you do, then please aim them at Dragonzbane.....:p

[Dragonzbane76]

hey i use really big lazers!!

how bout sharks with really big freakin lazer beams...

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3628/3440289156_f6e1a56e3a.jpg

[Hardwork108]

how bout sharks with really big freakin lazer beams...

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3628/3440289156_f6e1a56e3a.jpg

Becareful with posting images of large tube shaped objects as you might provoke Syn7's feelings of p&nis envie. ;)