How To develop Fa Ging

[Yoshiyahu]

How do you Develop, Cultivate and strengthen the Ging, Jing, Geng???

What do you do? How do you train to amplify it and utilize it?

[k gledhill]

Learn to use the elbow to the centerline as your invisible sudden stopping line not your hands, this connects the body weight to the arm ...use a wooden dummy.

[Eric_H]

That's more or less lineage specific.

My YM WC teacher had me learn it on the dummy, if not done right you bruise the crap out of yourself.

In HFY WC We have a couple of different training sets for it, mostly Jaam Jong and Dip Gwat Gung exercises.

Chris Chan's guys do a lot of Dynamic tension in their SLT.

Some LT guys have talked about learning it through the pole form.

How'd your Sifu tell you to do it?

[Yoshiyahu]

There are different ways to develop it in my lineage...

But there are exercises with the pole you do...as well as the wooden man. We also have chi kung form in addition to punching on a wall bag and kicking a pole. Also hitting and striking a pole...There are other ways as well!

So yes I agree with Kdell and you when it comes to using a wooden man!

[Lee Chiang Po]

Stomach crunches to strengthen the lower abdomen. It is the center and generation point from which your strength comes. It is only strong if you are strong. SLT is the form where you use the imagination. Not only does it train you how to form and apply each of the techniques in it, but it also trains you to do everything on your center line. When doing it, most people do the second set slowly, but that is not the original concept. It should all be done that way and the use of dynamic tension will train you to focus your energies into the techniques. Later, when all this is well trained into you, the wooden dummy will help you apply these techniques with constant and continuous flow of this same energy.
I watched a video once where several people were lined up and doing Sil Lim. They were doing it so fast that you could not see their hands. They were not doing the techniques properly at all, just shooting right on through them. This was being overseen by a sifu or his assistant, and not a single word was spoken on behalf of proper application.
And the techniques of Wing Chun's forms should not be open for interpretation. That means that it could be interpreted a thousand different ways. It was not meant to be like that. Wing Chun has sound principals and should not be left to that. It should be taught so that each move can be well understood by all. Misinterpretation is what leads to all the different lineages and wierd applications.

[Yoshiyahu]

I disagree to intrepreation...All a sifu can give you is his innovation. If your Sifu is or was a fighter. The techniques he done in WC will be different than the techniques someone in Hong Kong does or someone in Japan does. Because the WC in Japan and Hong Kong is different than it is in Brooklyn or Los Angeles. You will be fighting different people with different strengths and weaknesses. A person who trains MMA wing chun will be different than a person who trains Kyoshukin or Muay Thai. Because he adapts his WC to those he spars with...Some Techniques that work on a boxer wont work on a street fighter with no formal training. A street fighter who has never taking formal training of any sort only has experience from fighting on the streets. So his tactics will be different than someone who has been boxing since he was seven. His timing, skill, techniques, strength, power and speed will be different than trained martial artist. So you need to adapt your fighting to what ever you encounter. There you can modify, innovate or adapt your WC so it works for you...

Also everyone has different strengths and weaknesses. Some of us are extremely fast others are extremely strong while others have a keen sense of accuracy and timing. Depending on your strength and weaknesses your WC will grow into something different than the next man. if something doesn't work for you throw it out. For instance if due to your body structure or skill or even ability certain applications to a technique don't work for you...Either don't use it at all or change the technique so it does work for you!


For instance if your fighting a person who only throws punching as your chest and stomach then your guards should be lower. Because they are trying hurt your organs. Your WC techniques would follow the traditional WC patterns where they blocked or intercepted attacks towards the body. If your attacker is aiming primarily at your face then you need to protect your face and your techniques should be altered.

The Forms are just that. A form or idea. But ideas take a life of their own once a person gets a hold to it.

Story Books are always better than a movie. A movie gives you the exact application written in stone with out room for interpretation or imagination. But reading a book will allow your imagination to fill in the gaps and pictures and images of how something is to be interpretation. A book is merely a form. Your mind does the rest!



Stomach crunches to strengthen the lower abdomen. It is the center and generation point from which your strength comes. It is only strong if you are strong. SLT is the form where you use the imagination. Not only does it train you how to form and apply each of the techniques in it, but it also trains you to do everything on your center line. When doing it, most people do the second set slowly, but that is not the original concept. It should all be done that way and the use of dynamic tension will train you to focus your energies into the techniques. Later, when all this is well trained into you, the wooden dummy will help you apply these techniques with constant and continuous flow of this same energy.
I watched a video once where several people were lined up and doing Sil Lim. They were doing it so fast that you could not see their hands. They were not doing the techniques properly at all, just shooting right on through them. This was being overseen by a sifu or his assistant, and not a single word was spoken on behalf of proper application.
And the techniques of Wing Chun's forms should not be open for interpretation. That means that it could be interpreted a thousand different ways. It was not meant to be like that. Wing Chun has sound principals and should not be left to that. It should be taught so that each move can be well understood by all. Misinterpretation is what leads to all the different lineages and wierd applications.

[Lee Chiang Po]

Story Books are always better than a movie. A movie gives you the exact application written in stone with out room for interpretation or imagination. But reading a book will allow your imagination to fill in the gaps and pictures and images of how something is to be interpretation. A book is merely a form. Your mind does the rest![/QUOTE]

I think you misunderstand. Concepts and principals are static. When we adhere to them they remain the same. If we alter them they no longer apply. In order for your Wing Chun to work as intended, you must adhere to these concepts and principals. There is no room for interpretation.
Nothing about fighting is the same from one fight to the next. This will change a lot of things, but will not change the principals of application or use. This is where many tend to be making odd interpretations. Books do not often explain the concept or principal behind something, actually leaving it up to the interpretation of the reader, and this is probably why we have so many different Wing Chuns out there.

[Yoshiyahu]

Those who fight with WC today alter it or modify it so it works. No one WC is a carbon copy of WC from the 1800's...Your Figthing ability in WC is dictated by your experience and exposure to other fighters!



Story Books are always better than a movie. A movie gives you the exact application written in stone with out room for interpretation or imagination. But reading a book will allow your imagination to fill in the gaps and pictures and images of how something is to be interpretation. A book is merely a form. Your mind does the rest!

I think you misunderstand. Concepts and principals are static. When we adhere to them they remain the same. If we alter them they no longer apply. In order for your Wing Chun to work as intended, you must adhere to these concepts and principals. There is no room for interpretation.
Nothing about fighting is the same from one fight to the next. This will change a lot of things, but will not change the principals of application or use. This is where many tend to be making odd interpretations. Books do not often explain the concept or principal behind something, actually leaving it up to the interpretation of the reader, and this is probably why we have so many different Wing Chuns out there.[/QUOTE]

[Hendrik]

Fa jing is a very fuzzy and confusion term. it seems that everyone define their own.

In order to discuss effectively Fa jing must be define clearly.

[YouKnowWho]

Fa jing is a very fuzzy and confusion term. it seems that everyone define their own.

In order to discuss effectively Fa jing must be define clearly.
What's the definition of Fajin? Be able to hit on the

- thin air? or
- hard object?

Since there is no way to measure how hard that you can hit on the thin air, the only valid definition of Fajin is how nuch power that you can generate on a heavy bag or on your opponent's body.

When I was young, I might define Fajin as "If you can rotate your Dantien clockwise 3 times, counter-clockwise 3 times, and then send your Qi ball out to kill your opponent, you have good Fajin". Now I'm older and no longer live in my dream, I'll define Fajin as simple as "if you can knock your opponent down, you have good Fajin. Otherwise, you don't".

[Yoshiyahu]

Concepts and Principals are guidelines. But as for fighting techniques are altered.
you have a tan da or jum da or pak da...you need to alter the application depending on the opponent. A stiff opponent you can utilize a hard pak da...A flowing opponent your pak saus need to be fast and continous and accompanied with movement to defend against his fast attacks. It all depends on the situtation...You have SLT. there is wealth of techniques that can be used...Your sifu may show you application of each move. Some may work for you. Others may not...It doesn't mean the technique is flawed...it just doesnt work for you. So you have to adapt techniques and movements to what works for you. Maybe altering the application can assist you in a fight.






I think you misunderstand. Concepts and principals are static. When we adhere to them they remain the same. If we alter them they no longer apply. In order for your Wing Chun to work as intended, you must adhere to these concepts and principals. There is no room for interpretation.
Nothing about fighting is the same from one fight to the next. This will change a lot of things, but will not change the principals of application or use. This is where many tend to be making odd interpretations. Books do not often explain the concept or principal behind something, actually leaving it up to the interpretation of the reader, and this is probably why we have so many different Wing Chuns out there.

[Ironmike]

A simple question and of course complicated answers, no wonder most people laugh at us! " Little Idea"
The second section of the first form is designed to develop " Fa Jing" We learn to relax in the first part, throw energy in the second, and use that energy in technics in the third part. That and chain punching are the beginners blue print, and the masters, for the development of Fa Jing.

[Lee Chiang Po]

Concepts and Principals are guidelines. But as for fighting techniques are altered.
you have a tan da or jum da or pak da...you need to alter the application depending on the opponent. A stiff opponent you can utilize a hard pak da...A flowing opponent your pak saus need to be fast and continous and accompanied with movement to defend against his fast attacks. It all depends on the situtation...You have SLT. there is wealth of techniques that can be used...Your sifu may show you application of each move. Some may work for you. Others may not...It doesn't mean the technique is flawed...it just doesnt work for you. So you have to adapt techniques and movements to what works for you. Maybe altering the application can assist you in a fight.

You can form an intire fighting system around tan sao. I simple concept, but it is seldom ever applied in the same manner, so yes, application can be very different from one to the next. Take jiujitsu for an example. There are probably about 60 techniques all together. I have about 70 because I have developed some of my own. However, there are about 10 to 12 variations of these techniques, which will equate to more than 700. A huge range of techniques. But, in a single fight one might not use more than one or two and it is over. WC is like that. There is so many different ways to apply tan sao and follow up that you can indeed form an entire fighting system around it. The basics will remain the same though. If you alter them, your application will be all wrong.
Now, even though you adhere to the principals of tan sao, you can do your follow up applications wrong and get whacked. It will all depend on your situation. Nothing will work for you if you don't try it. Like standing off and trading licks with someone. It is silly. Just say I was confronted by someone that was mad at me and wanted to fight me. I don't think about doing anything like fighting with him. I simply make a loud noise to startle him and rush him. I can take him off his balance and form my own bridge. While he is off balance I can spin him and take him to his knees and attack his head viciously. I can then jump back and kick him brutally. Is that Wing Chun? You bet it is. It is the way I learned to fight and it has kept me breathing in more than one situation. All this talk about resisting opponents, forget about it. Once I make contact and take a mans balance any resistance is futile.

[Graham H]

Just say I was confronted by someone that was mad at me and wanted to fight me. I don't think about doing anything like fighting with him. I simply make a loud noise to startle him and rush him. I can take him off his balance and form my own bridge. While he is off balance I can spin him and take him to his knees and attack his head viciously. I can then jump back and kick him brutally. Is that Wing Chun? You bet it is. It is the way I learned to fight and it has kept me breathing in more than one situation. All this talk about resisting opponents, forget about it. Once I make contact and take a mans balance any resistance is futile.

In the words of the legendary Jim Kelly....."Man, you come right out of a comic book"

GH

[LoneTiger108]

How do you Develop, Cultivate and strengthen the Ging, Jing, Geng???

What do you do? How do you train to amplify it and utilize it?

I would ask, what type of ging are you looking to develop as there are many in Chinese Martial Arts and Wing Chun uses specific types?

[Yoshiyahu]

Some of what you said I agree with...AS for basics...the basics is the forms and drills. How you do the drill and forms are basic...but thats not the intrepreation or even application...its a training tool to get you use to shapes and forms of each technique. once you have muscle memory you can apply the techniques and shapes and forms in freestyle situtation as you like...Fighting is not a set pattern. You dont have time to think about doing your techniques exactly as they are done in chum kiu or sil lim tau. You flow with each technique. You apply the technique any way that works for you. There are certain principles you follow of course...But for each situtation there is a change. You dont have time to plan out your attack because the unexpected may happen. You scream or yell at me I punch you. I see your noise as an attack i strike you instantly for being a MAD man. I dont wait for you to pounce on me like some animal...i attack!


You can form an intire fighting system around tan sao. I simple concept, but it is seldom ever applied in the same manner, so yes, application can be very different from one to the next. Take jiujitsu for an example. There are probably about 60 techniques all together. I have about 70 because I have developed some of my own. However, there are about 10 to 12 variations of these techniques, which will equate to more than 700. A huge range of techniques. But, in a single fight one might not use more than one or two and it is over. WC is like that. There is so many different ways to apply tan sao and follow up that you can indeed form an entire fighting system around it. The basics will remain the same though. If you alter them, your application will be all wrong.
Now, even though you adhere to the principals of tan sao, you can do your follow up applications wrong and get whacked. It will all depend on your situation. Nothing will work for you if you don't try it. Like standing off and trading licks with someone. It is silly. Just say I was confronted by someone that was mad at me and wanted to fight me. I don't think about doing anything like fighting with him. I simply make a loud noise to startle him and rush him. I can take him off his balance and form my own bridge. While he is off balance I can spin him and take him to his knees and attack his head viciously. I can then jump back and kick him brutally. Is that Wing Chun? You bet it is. It is the way I learned to fight and it has kept me breathing in more than one situation. All this talk about resisting opponents, forget about it. Once I make contact and take a mans balance any resistance is futile.


Your comment is better than one I was going to say!


In the words of the legendary Jim Kelly....."Man, you come right out of a comic book"

GH

I guess I mean exploding Jing...The type of Ging you issue when you strike someone!!! Fa Jing!


I would ask, what type of ging are you looking to develop as there are many in Chinese Martial Arts and Wing Chun uses specific types?

[stonecrusher69]

How do you Develop, Cultivate and strengthen the Ging, Jing, Geng???

What do you do? How do you train to amplify it and utilize it?

There are many ways. It starts in the SLT. Drills and exercises.

[Yoshiyahu]

There are many ways. It starts in the SLT. Drills and exercises.

thanks for sharing