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Yoshiyahu
10-22-2011, 11:08 AM
Yes in the right environment it does!!!

If you want your WC to work in the sports environment it needs to be modified or innovated.


For instance MMA is very good with MMA rules and regulations. But a MMA guy would not fair well in the following competitions!

1.Pro Heavy Weight Boxing Match - By Boxing Rules only
2.Tae Kwon Do Olympics competition - By TKD rules only
3.Kick Boxing competition - By kick boxing rules only
4.Point Fighting Competition - By full contact karate rules only
5.Kyoshukin free fighting competition - by their rules only
6.Muay Thai ring fight - By MT rules only
7.Tai Chi Push hands - By Tai Chi Chuan rules only
8.Wing Chun Chi Sau or Sparring - By WC rules only
9.Kung Fu competition - By the Kung Fu rules only
10.Street fighting challenge by no rules!

A MMA guys tools would be banned or restricted in most of the competition where ground fighting is not allowed. In boxing if you hit the ground you back away so he can get a ten second count. In Mongolian Wrestling you loose once you hit the ground. In TKD there is no punching just kicks. In Kyoshukin you can only punch the body and kicks go to head and body. No ground fighting. In combat Judo the arm bar is not to tap the opponent out but break the arm. Many of MMA guys tools would be banned or forbidden. Do you think a MMA guy would fair well in non-sport judo match, Akikido match or collegiate wrestling match? Where he couldnt use his other stand up tools?

Taking Wing Chun a Street Fighting Art and placing in the cage where Most of his bread and butter techniques can not be used negates his tools!

Yoshiyahu
10-22-2011, 12:10 PM
Would a pure BJJ guy do well in San Shou tournament?

Yoshiyahu
10-24-2011, 01:30 PM
how would a mma guy fair in a tui shou or chi sau match?

Robinhood
10-24-2011, 01:44 PM
The flow can be canceled very easially , most WC is just flowery hands with no substance.

Quoting Bruce Lee without knowing what he is talking about will not give you any credit.

Try to use your own words.

anerlich
10-24-2011, 04:30 PM
But a MMA guy would not fair well in the following competitions!


He might fare Ok though.

Buddha_Fist
10-24-2011, 05:04 PM
...For instance MMA is very good with MMA rules and regulations. But a MMA guy would not fair well in the following competitions!

1.Pro Heavy Weight Boxing Match - By Boxing Rules only
2.Tae Kwon Do Olympics competition - By TKD rules only
3.Kick Boxing competition - By kick boxing rules only
4.Point Fighting Competition - By full contact karate rules only
5.Kyoshukin free fighting competition - by their rules only
6.Muay Thai ring fight - By MT rules only
7.Tai Chi Push hands - By Tai Chi Chuan rules only
8.Wing Chun Chi Sau or Sparring - By WC rules only
9.Kung Fu competition - By the Kung Fu rules only
10.Street fighting challenge by no rules!

Aside from Chi-Sao being a drill and not sparring, what the @#% is "Sparring - By WC rules only"????

:confused:

Go and spar with a MMA guy with no rules and you'll be in for a surprise!

Yoshiyahu
10-29-2011, 05:18 PM
The flow can be canceled very easially , most WC is just flowery hands with no substance.

Quoting Bruce Lee without knowing what he is talking about will not give you any credit.

Try to use your own words.

lol thats my signature buddy do you like it?

by the way these are my own words!!! - "The Flow is relentless like a raging ocean with crashing waves devasting anything in its path.

"

Yoshiyahu
10-29-2011, 05:20 PM
He might fare Ok though.

how could he fair okay in a Chi Sau competition or push hands competition?

jesper
10-29-2011, 07:17 PM
how could he fair okay in a Chi Sau competition or push hands competition?

because theres no such thing as a chi sao competetion, only clowns who doesnt know what chi sao is ?

Yoshiyahu
10-29-2011, 07:39 PM
because theres no such thing as a chi sao competetion, only clowns who doesnt know what chi sao is ?

Have you not ever heard of Chi Sau competitions?


http://www.sixharmony.com/chisao.html

http://www.uswingchun.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=36

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02fVjxI1Fa4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWJ3xQwcI60

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwUgiAHP2BQ


seems like these are all consider chi sau competitions to me buddy?

k gledhill
10-29-2011, 08:09 PM
Have you not ever heard of Chi Sau competitions?


http://www.sixharmony.com/chisao.html

http://www.uswingchun.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=36

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02fVjxI1Fa4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWJ3xQwcI60

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwUgiAHP2BQ


seems like these are all consider chi sau competitions to me buddy?


the inmates run rampant...;)

k gledhill
10-30-2011, 03:43 AM
because theres no such thing as a chi sao competetion, only clowns who doesnt know what chi sao is ?

Thank you, glad someone agrees that chi-sao is not a competition, but a mutual drill.

Yoshiyahu
10-30-2011, 06:23 AM
Thank you, glad someone agrees that chi-sao is not a competition, but a mutual drill.

i agree it is a drill with in your kwoon and among brethren...


But today they have blasted chi competitions you do realize this right?

jesper
10-30-2011, 09:56 AM
i agree it is a drill with in your kwoon and among brethren...


But today they have blasted chi competitions you do realize this right?

and the fact that people attend those means what exactly ?

I have seen people compete in walking backwards, doesnt make it any less stupid

Yoshiyahu
10-31-2011, 01:00 PM
and the fact that people attend those means what exactly ?

I have seen people compete in walking backwards, doesnt make it any less stupid

Augustine Fong participated in chi sau competition!!!

Do you believe his Wing Chun is stupid?

Vajramusti
10-31-2011, 01:38 PM
Augustine Fong participated in chi sau competition!!!

Do you believe his Wing Chun is stupid?
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Participated? No. he has been asked to judge/referee in several tournaments.

Yoshiyahu
10-31-2011, 06:02 PM
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Participated? No. he has been asked to judge/referee in several tournaments.

my computer at home wont show youtube videos...i believe this is it...it could be the wrong video....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ui6rj58DA0

is he not doing a competition here?


ne way...if he felt negative against chi sau competitons why be a judge?

wingchunIan
11-01-2011, 03:33 AM
I see lots of competition and pat a cake, but haven't seen any chi sao yet. The SENI event was a joke and hasn't been repeated in recent years. Chi sau is a learning environment not competition, if people want to compete then they should just fight.
Looking at the clip of AF it would seem to be a demo not a competition so I don't believe that it's relevant.

Phil Redmond
11-01-2011, 04:43 AM
my computer at home wont show youtube videos...i believe this is it...it could be the wrong video....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ui6rj58DA0

is he not doing a competition here . . .
That's clearly a demo and not a comp.

k gledhill
11-01-2011, 05:53 AM
That's cleary a demo and not a comp.

Its pre arranged demo, he does the same set piece demo in another clip I have seen...

Vajramusti
11-01-2011, 06:46 AM
That's cleary a demo and not a comp.
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Correct!

Vajramusti
11-01-2011, 06:50 AM
Its pre arranged demo, he does the same set piece demo in another clip I have seen...
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Pre- arranged? Decidedly no.
But is a demo- and not fighting. Illustrates timing, positioning and structural control and controlled power.

Vajramusti
11-01-2011, 06:55 AM
my computer at home wont show youtube videos...i believe this is it...it could be the wrong video....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ui6rj58DA0

is he not doing a competition here?


ne way...if he felt negative against chi sau competitons why be a judge?
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He was invited by a national kung fu tournament to demonstrate eing chun chi sao.

As far as judging- he does not put on chi sao tournaments.He gets asked to be a judge.
A knowledgeable judge is better than the other alternative.

k gledhill
11-01-2011, 06:58 AM
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Pre- arranged? Decidedly no.
But is a demo- and not fighting. Illustrates timing, positioning and structural control and controlled power.

He does exactly the same sequence in the other clip, if I can find it I will post both so you can see....I'm only saying, I know its a demo.

Vajramusti
11-01-2011, 07:05 AM
He does exactly the same sequence in the other clip, if I can find it I will post both so you can see....I'm only saying, I know its a demo.
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Whatever. It would be good to see you do a comparable demo.

Phil Redmond
11-01-2011, 09:30 AM
Hey Joy, with no disrespect to any WSL people but it's obvious that on this forum if you don't do WSL WC you don't know diddly. That's a really sad thought since WSL as well as my own Sifu and others had seniors way before they started WC. Who knows what they were taught? ;)

Vajramusti
11-01-2011, 10:05 AM
Hey Joy, with no disrespect to any WSL people but it's obvious that on this forum if you don't do WSL WC you don't know diddly. That's a really sad thought since WSL as well as my own Sifu and others had seniors way before they started WC. Who knows what they were taught? ;)
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Hi Phil. I have rolled with WSL twice during his US visit (in San Francisco and Houston).And have attended a seminar of his in San Francisco. of course I respect him as a good senior member of IM's first HK generation of students.. But you don't find Peterson. Lam. Au, WSL's ex b rother in law and others , WSL's HK proteges being uncivil and dogmatic as two guys who did not learn from WSL but latched on to PB after visits and after wandering around.

As for the forum it's not a place to find authenticity or good analysis- and with some of the frequent posters- it's just noise. So two PB students and one person of unknown wc background
cannot speak for wc.

Sometimes one can pick up some unintended insight- but mostly I ignore the noise. KFO is not the nexus of the wing chun world. It's mostly jabberwocky.

joy chaudhuri

Phil Redmond
11-01-2011, 10:13 AM
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Hi Phil. I have rolled with WSL twice during his US visit (in San Francisco and Houston).And have attended a seminar of his in San Francisco. of course I respect him as a good senior member of IM's first HK generation of students.. But you don't find Peterson. Lam. Au, WSL's ex b rother in law and others , WSL's HK proteges being uncivil and dogmatic as two guys who did not learn from WSL but latched on to PB after visits and after wandering around.

As for the forum it's not a place to find authenticity or good analysis- and with some of the frequent posters- it's just noise. So two PB students and one person of unknown wc background
cannot speak for wc.

Sometimes one can pick up some unintended insight- but mostly I ignore the noise. KFO is not the nexus of the wing chun world. It's mostly jabberwocky.

joy chaudhuri

Thanks for the insight. I learned something from your post. ;)

sanjuro_ronin
11-01-2011, 10:29 AM
One of the many reasons I don't post in this forum as much.
But I am afraid to say that it is NOT just symptomatic to the WC forum.

wtxs
11-01-2011, 10:52 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ui6rj58DA0

is he not doing a competition here?

Thanks for the video link ... however the video title clearly said "Wing Chun - The Ultimate Demonstration," not competition.;)

Yoshiyahu
11-01-2011, 11:53 AM
Thanks for the video link ... however the video title clearly said "Wing Chun - The Ultimate Demonstration," not competition.;)

You are right back to my point!!!

Would a non-wing chun mma guy be able to do well at said demonstraitions?

mesar
11-03-2011, 08:35 PM
To some extent this is true, you train for what genre your in. But on the street, a punch to the face is still a punch to the face. Their ability to hit hard and take a punch can be applied on the street.
In my opinion, why you don't see wing chun in mma is with gloves, you don't have knock out power. With gloves you need momentum based punches to have any real power. Now, I'm not saying Wing Chun can't hit hard, but all the power displayed are always without gloves. You have to start using other methods for power if you have gloves, more hard style type power generation, adding moment, hip and body movements. you can add this to your wing chun if you do MMA, but is gonna look quite different then traditional Wing Chun.
As far as does wing chun work? depends how you train. I feel there needs to be some sparring or you'll never learn timing and how to apply your wing chun at speed.

Vajramusti
11-03-2011, 09:22 PM
To some extent this is true, you train for what genre your in. But on the street, a punch to the face is still a punch to the face. Their ability to hit hard and take a punch can be applied on the street.
In my opinion, why you don't see wing chun in mma is with gloves, you don't have knock out power. With gloves you need momentum based punches to have any real power. Now, I'm not saying Wing Chun can't hit hard, but all the power displayed are always without gloves. You have to start using other methods for power if you have gloves, more hard style type power generation, adding moment, hip and body movements. you can add this to your wing chun if you do MMA, but is gonna look quite different then traditional Wing Chun.
As far as does wing chun work? depends how you train. I feel there needs to be some sparring or you'll never learn timing and how to apply your wing chun at speed.
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A good wing chunperson shoold have "knockout"(and worse) power with or without gloves.
Beginners usually don't.

blackjesus
11-03-2011, 09:50 PM
Not just Wing Chun, but I would love to see a Trad. Kung Fu used in high profile fights, like how Machinda ultised Shotokan in UFC.

mesar
11-03-2011, 09:57 PM
Thats the problem, you don't see it. Good wing chun or no. look at the nuances you do to get your power, some of those you cannot do with gloves on. Using wrist for instance. The type of power transfer, at least how I punch, you punch relaxed and upon impact you stick very briefly to transfer energy. With gloves on, this is reduced.

Yoshiyahu
11-04-2011, 01:29 PM
Thats the problem, you don't see it. Good wing chun or no. look at the nuances you do to get your power, some of those you cannot do with gloves on. Using wrist for instance. The type of power transfer, at least how I punch, you punch relaxed and upon impact you stick very briefly to transfer energy. With gloves on, this is reduced.

Do you really think a WC punch with utilization of yiu ma wouldnt do damage or knock you if it connected correctly?

mesar
11-04-2011, 06:57 PM
Do you really think a WC punch with utilization of yiu ma wouldnt do damage or knock you if it connected correctly?

lol depends how you do it. Put on boxing gloves.Then hit the bag with yiu ma, played around with elbow position, distance of rotation, energy and still keeping it functional and repeatable. Not doing the one hit and I'm done. So simple answer is yes.

Yoshiyahu
11-04-2011, 09:27 PM
lol depends how you do it. Put on boxing gloves.Then hit the bag with yiu ma, played around with elbow position, distance of rotation, energy and still keeping it functional and repeatable. Not doing the one hit and I'm done. So simple answer is yes.

I did that today!