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HungKuenH
10-23-2011, 09:50 PM
I never seen those pictures, I already heard that Bruce Lee had some lessons in Hung Kuen (not properly learned the style) but always wondered with whom he trained...anyone knows more ?

http://i336.photobucket.com/albums/n321/FrankyLau/317353_2075807134318_1219141252_31731272_904149757 _n.jpg

http://i336.photobucket.com/albums/n321/FrankyLau/308494_2073150747910_1219141252_31728874_140243602 9_n1.jpg

5thBrother
10-27-2011, 10:31 PM
Wasn't it a hung gar form/varient he performed for the movie screen testers?
There should be a video of it floating around if you havn't see it before...

EDIT: video here if it's new to u:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOvmOSqTLzY

LaterthanNever
10-28-2011, 05:25 PM
interesting comments.

That looks like a younger version of GM Frank Yee in the photo. Can anyone confirm?

As for Bruce and HG..I read somewhere that HG was one of the arts which he derided because he felt it was too traditional..

But I've heard him refer to "the classical mess" and other perjoratives..but never heard him mention Hung Kuen by name..

Lucas
10-28-2011, 05:54 PM
not for sure on this but, it may be james lee.

http://www.bruceleedivinewind.com/pix/essay1.JPG

TenTigers
10-28-2011, 07:43 PM
Definitely not pics of GM Yee Chi-Wai.
Those photos are of Bruce Lee and Taky Kimura, one of his original students.

5thBrother
10-28-2011, 08:00 PM
I think the Frank Yee comment was referring to the partner , guy in blue, maybe?

Not sure, I think it's taky kimura also, photo from Bruce's first book ... can't recall the name at...

Btw... I just saw on this Doco where Bruce learned Gung Lek Kune and the end of this clip looks similar to what he demos in the screen test maybe

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KFHedb_0mA

TenTigers
10-28-2011, 09:59 PM
do a google-taky kimura pics and these will be among them.

Eric Olson
11-01-2011, 01:46 PM
Interesting how he talks about the kung fu punch being like the "ball on the end of a chain". Sort of, but almost like a chain that is thrown out and then a ball magically appears at the end, as the chain reaches its full length.

EO

TopCrusader
11-03-2011, 01:03 PM
I have been researching Bruce's connection to Hung Kuen for some time with little results as far as specifics. He definitely was trained in some of the classical stances and attacking movements (such as the crane beak picture).
Jesse Glover (first student of BL) was asked if in Bruce's first book "Chinese Gung Fu" if those were karate postures and he said no, they were from the Hung.

Also, Jesse mentions learning a Hung form from Bruce that was very long and Jesse performed this at various demonstrations.

WHO Bruce learned Hung Kuen from I have never been able to find out. He would have learned it in Hong Kong before leaving, so circa 1957-1958. Since his father was a famous man, Bruce could have trained with anybody from a beginner to a seasoned master.

Id love to hear more thoughts on this subject!

5thBrother
11-03-2011, 06:19 PM
In the video I posted above about gung lek keun, 4:20min mark and again at 9:00min mark the end after the wong sheung leung wing chun stuff) You can clearly see the "reverse punch" in the form, as well as a crane like technique, as well that teacher teaches many animal techniques looks like ....

So I'm thinking he learnt these Hung like techniques from that teacher in the video or even just from that form.

Now whether or not that teahcer is a Hung Sifu, giggles :P err Hung Gar Sifu or not is a question.... but i'm assuming some kind of "shaolin" or "southern shaolin" ... Although the first form the teacher does is Northern Praying Mantis O_o .... so looks like a mix of styles at the school ...

I'm guessing Bruce either learned 1 single form of either Hung Style or had Hung Style like techniques in it rather than actually studied Hung Gar/Kuen

TopCrusader
11-04-2011, 06:12 AM
Im curious about the picture posted of Bruce doing a Crane beak attack on Taky Kimura.....I know this technique is found in Hung Kuen Crane form, but how do you know its not a technique from White Crane gung fu? Or do both arts have that same attack?

5thBrother,
As far as the form at the 9:43 minute mark where Shiu Hon Sang is re-enacting teaching "Bruce", I believe that is the Jeet Kune/Jie Quan form found in the Chin Woo Curriculum. There are photos and video of Bruce performing that form all over the place, it seemed to be one of his favorite forms to perform.

I'll have to look at my notes on Shiu Hon Sang....I know he learned several southern arts including Choy Lay Fut, but I'll have to double check to see if he got Hung training (Im guessing yes.)

You mention the first form he demonstrates is a Northern Mantis form! Could you tell me the name of it?
I see Shiu Hon Sang demonstrate several movements:
4:21-4:26
4:27-4:30
4:31-4:35
I dont know how familiar you are with various forms, but if you have any ideas of the art/form name, Id love to hear more (That goes for everybody to comment, not just 5thBrother!)

Thanks so much for the posts, please continue! :)

TenTigers
11-04-2011, 01:29 PM
Im curious about the picture posted of Bruce doing a Crane beak attack on Taky Kimura.....I know this technique is found in Hung Kuen Crane form, but how do you know its not a technique from White Crane gung fu? Or do both arts have that same attack?


Fukien White Crane has it, as does Tibetan White Crane. Techniques from both of those systems were absorbed into Hung-Ga, so it's all three.
CLF also has it as well....

LaterthanNever
11-04-2011, 04:30 PM
I'll ask Jesse (and Taky) the next time I see them..

"but how do you know its not a technique from White Crane gung fu? Or do both arts have that same attack?"

Don't forget...that Wing Chun was based supposedly on the arts of the snake and crane..

LaterthanNever
11-04-2011, 04:39 PM
"but i'm assuming some kind of "shaolin" or "southern shaolin" ... Although the first form the teacher does is Northern Praying Mantis O_o .... so looks like a mix of styles at the school ..."

I've been told that Bruce studied some southern mantis from GM Gin Foon Mark..but I have no way of confirming that.

I do know that Bruce learned some southern mantis and northern mantis from Master Fook Yeung(another prominent figure in Bruces' martial arts syllabus who in my opinion gets far too little credit)

5thBrother
11-04-2011, 05:08 PM
Hey, the Northern Mantis form is Bung Bo Kuen ... I'll chekc the video again later

TopCrusader
11-05-2011, 10:11 AM
"but i'm assuming some kind of "shaolin" or "southern shaolin" ... Although the first form the teacher does is Northern Praying Mantis O_o .... so looks like a mix of styles at the school ..."

I've been told that Bruce studied some southern mantis from GM Gin Foon Mark..but I have no way of confirming that.

I do know that Bruce learned some southern mantis and northern mantis from Master Fook Yeung(another prominent figure in Bruces' martial arts syllabus who in my opinion gets far too little credit)

I have so many questions I would ask Taky and Jesse its ridiculous! I would overwhelm them LOL!
Bruce definitely learned Bung Bo (Mantis) form from Shiu Hon Sang. He has stated this himself in several interviews. And yes, Bruce did train with Gin Foon Mark, at least according to him. I have yet to come across any source of Bruce telling his early students that he did train with him, but that doesnt really mean anything as Bruce seemed to keep alot of that type of information to himself.

As far as Fook Yueng, I agree completely. There is much not known that should be known about their connection. If only I lived on the west coast......

LaterThanNever,
If you could ask Jesse or Taky about the influence of Hung Kuen on Bruce and his art, that would be fantastic. Id really like to know what form of Hung he taught to Jesse (Tiger/Crane?) and how much of an impact it had on Jun Fan Gung Fu.

LaterthanNever
11-05-2011, 03:22 PM
Top Crusader,

" And yes, Bruce did train with Gin Foon Mark, at least according to him. I have yet to come across any source of Bruce telling his early students that he did train with him, but that doesnt really mean anything as Bruce seemed to keep alot of that type of information to himself."

Do you know offhand..I read something somewhere that Master Mark used to teach in NYC and for some reason or another..he moved to Minnesota. Was there an explanation for why he left?(maybe he likes the cold weather more?)

"As far as Fook Yueng, I agree completely. There is much not known that should be known about their connection. If only I lived on the west coast...."

Fook Yeung is still alive if you can believe it! As for it not being known..I wonder if they at least have given Fook Yeung an honorable mention in the Ving Tsun museum in Ohio.

"LaterThanNever,
If you could ask Jesse or Taky about the influence of Hung Kuen on Bruce and his art, that would be fantastic."

Jesse is in Europe for at least another couple of weeks. I'll see what I can do. You've got Master John Leongs' school in Seattle too, but I don't think Jesse learned any Hung from Master Leong and I'm somewhat having a doubting feeling that Bruce learned from Leong either. Taky is a hard guy to reach..he's a rather private person(so is Jesse)...


"Id really like to know what form of Hung he taught to Jesse (Tiger/Crane?) and how much of an impact it had on Jun Fan Gung Fu."

I couldn't say. Keep in mind, Bruce also had a 2nd school in Oakland, CA so he could have learned some HG sets in Cali as well.
\

TopCrusader
11-05-2011, 08:51 PM
Gin Foon Mark:
No idea why he moved. Believe it or not there are some people in the Jun Fan/JKD Community who dont believe that Bruce really did train with GFM and that he made it all up. At this point its hard to prove unless a photo exists of the two of them together or if the Lee estate still has some of the Jook Lum Mantis manuals he was supposedly given by GFM. I personally believe the story, but I have heard that in some peoples minds there are some questions. Its worth looking into.

Fook Yueng: No idea about the Ving Tsun museum. I actually live decently close to it so I plan to visit it someday soon. Red Boat Wing Chun, at least the kind Fook Yueng brought to Seattle is an interesting variant compared to Ip Man Wing Chun. A point of interest for me is what elements of Red Boat did Bruce absorb into his Jun Fan? Again, hard to say at this point but worth researching.

Back on topic to Hung Kuen ;) :
I am hypothesizing that Bruce got most of his Hung training in Hong Kong before coming to the states and then in Seattle, or perhaps when he went back to Hong Kong in 1963 (he was there for many months and had plenty of time to train). He also spent some more time with Shiu Hon Sang on his trip back in 1963, so they could have trained more then.
By the time Bruce was in Oakland and especially LA, I think Hung Kuen was towards the back of his mind as he was evolving into what many know JKD now today. Jun Fan Gung Fu was as much of a flowing "process" as JKD was truly, so its hard to pinpoint and say "This is what Jun Fan is" just like its hard to do that with JKD. But by most definitely 1967-68 there is a definite switch to a more alive, fluid, savate/boxing/wingchun/fencing structure that continued to be modified and refined.
The biggest influence of Hung Kuen on Bruce and his art would be 1958 to 1965 in my opinion. The specifics to that is what needs to be uncovered.
Thanks for the posts, I hope to read more! :)

PM
11-06-2011, 05:13 AM
Siu Honsang was also a Hung Ga Kyun master, so i bet Bruce has picked up some moves from him. i doubt he has learned any set (he has leraned Bang Bou, Gung Lik Kyu and Jit Kyun from him if i remember correctly)

well, anyway, everybody in Hong Kong who does some gungfu can show a Wing Cheun pose, CLF Gwa Saau Chaap of Tiger/Crane pose

LaterthanNever
11-06-2011, 01:22 PM
TopCrusader,


I'd like to talk w/ you offline please. Send me an e-mail to: aynsofwill@aol.com and I will reply.

LTN

mickey
04-01-2012, 07:04 AM
Greetings,

TopCrusader:

When you say "he made it all up" are you referring to Bruce Lee or Gin Foon Mark?


mickey

TopCrusader
04-01-2012, 09:22 AM
Hello Mickey,

Let me clarify, I BELIEVE the story of Bruce training with Gin Foon Mark is true. When I said some people believe that he "made it all up" I was referring to some JKD people having the opinion that GFM made the story up (possibly to attract business? i dont know).

However, Gin Foon Mark has been well established for years so needed no reason to fabricate a story. Like I said in my earlier post, the only way to really get to the bottom of it is to interview more people under Gin Foon Mark at the time, Bruce's family (he had a plane ticket to get out to NYC for a month!) , etc. And also to see if in Bruce Lee's massive library that his estate still has, to see if the Jook Lum Mantis manuals that GFM gave to Bruce are in there.

Also, I havent read any stories by any original Bruce Lee students (such as Jesse Glover) that recall Bruce talking to them about training with GFM. But this shouldnt surprise anybody....Bruce seemed to be selective about sharing that kind of information.

LaterthanNever
04-01-2012, 02:27 PM
"When I said some people believe that he "made it all up" I was referring to some JKD people having the opinion that GFM made the story up (possibly to attract business? i dont know)."


I find there are alot more people OUTSIDE of the JKD groups who did something like meet Bruce once and say "He was my teacher". With no disrepsect intended towards Grandmaster Gin Foon Mark..why would any JKD people do this?


"Also, I havent read any stories by any original Bruce Lee students (such as Jesse Glover) that recall Bruce talking to them about training with GFM. But this shouldnt surprise anybody....Bruce seemed to be selective about sharing that kind of information. "

Well...Jesse is my teacher..and I'm extremely grateful for it . He's a man of unquestionable integrity! He's also a man of few words. When a person is dead..people have a tendency to say whatever they wish. As an example..books always write that Bruces' first school was in Oakland. Not so. The first ever school he had was in Seattle and Jesse was Bruces' first student and certified instructor. Taky Kimura was later on. The list of people Bruce studied with is possibly more extensive than any one individual is privy to. For instance..you've got Master Yeung Fook..of the "Red Boat" Wing Chun style(We've all heard of Ip Man and yet how many people outside of the select few have heard of Master Yeung? Very few! Master Yeung taught Bruce for ..I believe it was 8 years). Jesse was also a top Judo practitioner/champion and I'm told taught Bruce Judo.

Does that mean that just because many have not heard of him that he didn't teach Bruce?

It's important to keep in mind, that some who taught Bruce did not have a flashing neon sign and 2 page ad in the Yellow pages.

Phil Redmond
04-01-2012, 10:11 PM
Bruce did trade Cha Cha lessons to learn the Jeet Kuen form from some Sifu in HK. I can't remember his name. The Sifu's said that Bruce learned the form before he got to finish his Cha Cha lessons. I'll do some research to find out who the Sifu is.

PM
04-01-2012, 11:48 PM
Siu Hon Sang sifu

David Jamieson
04-02-2012, 05:46 AM
Didn't Bruce Lee invent rocket propulsion and was the first man on the moon as well?

lol...man people still wanna get close to this guy and he's been dead longer than a lot of the posters here have been alive!

He was not a Hung Kuen guy.

PM
04-02-2012, 06:05 AM
Siu Hon Sang sifu, one of the teachers of Bruce Lee, was also a Hung Kyun master. My opinion is that Bruce Lee has seen some Hung Kyun and has posed in some of the techniques for photos, but never learned any Hung Kyun formally. well, we can all pose in a Taijiquan "single whip", WCH "taan da"or CLF "chaap cheui" posture, right?

LaterthanNever
04-02-2012, 12:58 PM
"Jeet Kune form"

Jeet Kune is a form in both Northern Eagle Claw as well as Mantis(Lian Jie "intercept fist"..Jie= Jeet--different dialect).

Bruce supposedly derided Hung Kuen because he felt it was too traditional. But having read pretty much all of his published books..I never once heard him mention "Hung Ga" or "Hung Kuen".

What's puzzling is..there are a good deal of similarities between Hung and Choy Li Fut(stances, bridging, animal emphasis,etc) and yet he was very complimentary towards CLF saying that CLF is one of the best systems for fighting multiple opponents. :confused:

David Jamieson
04-02-2012, 01:28 PM
Maybe so, but I don't have any idea how Bruce Lee would have much insight into fighting multiple opponents and what would or would not work. He never really fought anybody outside of movies and certainly not in multiples and even more certainly never used CLF to do so.

Quite frankly, I wish all this worship and misguided starry eye stuff would stop. Just appreciate the dude for what he was and not for what he's been trumped up to be for whatever reasons.

TopCrusader
04-02-2012, 04:07 PM
Maybe so, but I don't have any idea how Bruce Lee would have much insight into fighting multiple opponents and what would or would not work. He never really fought anybody outside of movies and certainly not in multiples and even more certainly never used CLF to do so.

Quite frankly, I wish all this worship and misguided starry eye stuff would stop. Just appreciate the dude for what he was and not for what he's been trumped up to be for whatever reasons.

Never fought anybody? You obviously havent read anything Wong Shun Leung, William Chung, Vince Lacey, Jesse Glover, Skip Ellsworth, James DeMile, or Hawkins Cheung have wrote.

I dont see anything in this thread that is "worship". I just see people trying to trace Bruce Lee's martial learnings.

Drake
04-02-2012, 10:43 PM
Never fought anybody? You obviously havent read anything Wong Shun Leung, William Chung, Vince Lacey, Jesse Glover, Skip Ellsworth, James DeMile, or Hawkins Cheung have wrote.

I dont see anything in this thread that is "worship". I just see people trying to trace Bruce Lee's martial learnings.

Good luck with that.

lance
04-03-2012, 01:24 AM
I have so many questions I would ask Taky and Jesse its ridiculous! I would overwhelm them LOL!
Bruce definitely learned Bung Bo (Mantis) form from Shiu Hon Sang. He has stated this himself in several interviews. And yes, Bruce did train with Gin Foon Mark, at least according to him. I have yet to come across any source of Bruce telling his early students that he did train with him, but that doesnt really mean anything as Bruce seemed to keep alot of that type of information to himself.

As far as Fook Yueng, I agree completely. There is much not known that should be known about their connection. If only I lived on the west coast......

LaterThanNever,
If you could ask Jesse or Taky about the influence of Hung Kuen on Bruce and his art, that would be fantastic. Id really like to know what form of Hung he taught to Jesse (Tiger/Crane?) and how much of an impact it had on Jun Fan Gung Fu.

Goodluck , on tracing BL martial arts background , just to let you people know we already had discussions on BL and his martial arts background . But the thread ended up having debates and arguments so someone from this forum had decided to close it .

I too had been doing research on BL myself , but all I did was do more reading on BL . Jesse Glover wrote a book on BL called the transition from WC into JKD and to me it ' s a very good book . Now I ' m trying to get the book which is based on his own kung fu training . Go to warriorvideos.net they carry the books which jesse wrote on BL . You can get some information from people who already replied to this topic thread on BL . Unless you really meet people who really trained with BL you would ' nt know too , but goodluck .

David Jamieson
04-03-2012, 07:16 AM
Never fought anybody? You obviously havent read anything Wong Shun Leung, William Chung, Vince Lacey, Jesse Glover, Skip Ellsworth, James DeMile, or Hawkins Cheung have wrote.

I dont see anything in this thread that is "worship". I just see people trying to trace Bruce Lee's martial learnings.

Yeah, I steer clear of fantasy fiction with heavy embellishments.

Everyone you mention has a career stake in Bruce's image.

But the fact of the matter is that Bruce got in some HS scuffles in HK, got sent back to America to go to school and there he also competed in cha cha dance which was his big thing at the time.

He may have had a fight with Wong Jack Man, but that has been veiled. There is a telling of it Other than that we have the story of the kid on the set of ETD who challenged him and Bruce slapped him around a little. Other than that, he did typical kung fu demos, thumb pushups, pushing people into chairs etc and did a castrated demo match with muhammad ali that everyone agreed was a lark. Other than that, he never really tested the mettle of his kung fu in a worthy and well watched fight. He wasn't a pro fighter and wasn't a soldier. He was an ambitious kung fu guy who wanted more than anything to be a movie star.

You can argue til you're blue in the face and talk about books written by guys who wouldn't have a career without the existence of Bruce, but the facts is the facts, Bruce Lee was never known as a great fighter. He was a cult of personality and apparently still is today.

His offerings don't go un-noticed, but his avid followers come across as gullible chumps quite often.

Drake
04-03-2012, 01:57 PM
I find Bruce Lee's story to be interesting. I don't think he was a great martial artist, though I think his approach to fitness and health was a good model for people, especially considering the obesity pandemic. And his movies were fun, and actually convinced quite a few people that he was some invincible super-warrior. In terms of MA movies... that's the ultimate accomplishment for an actor.

LaterthanNever
04-03-2012, 02:52 PM
"Everyone you mention has a career stake in Bruce's image."

I'm not sure I would agree entirely with that. Jesse is the kind of person who..if we are shooting a clip of a class, or taking a photo of the class, he doesn't want to be in the video/photos. In fact..if you walked past the school..there is no way in a million years that you would know there is a kung fu school (there is no signage), no advertizing. It's in the basement of a building. His books that are written are no longer being published(in other words, he's not trying to make a buck at Bruce's memory)

Jesse himself is emphatic in stating he "doesn't teach JKD". In fact..a friend of mine who teaches there(at Jesses' school) was telling us that recently at a JKD seminar in Oakland, that a fair ammount of what he demonstrated..the JKD guys in Oakland had never learned much less practiced!

Jesse COULD go on National TV and in magazines, try and hype up that he was Bruces' first student and certified associate instructor..but he doesn't!

Last I heard, Wong Shun Leung was dead. So how can a dead man have a career stake in Bruce's (also posthumous) image?

William Cheung is William Cheung. He's milked his name for all it's worth(not a judgement..just an observation) just being a student of the late Ip Man. Though using Bruces' name obviously helped him put his name on the map...he could have achieved a large percentage of his fame of being recognized even without Bruce's name play.

GM Vince Lacey does CLF. I don't see how (or why) he would have dropped Bruces' name for self promotion.

Drake
04-03-2012, 04:24 PM
You could have an arm-wrestling academy and still profit from a Bruce Lee connection.

jmd161
04-06-2012, 12:49 AM
Bruce Lee was never known as a great fighter. He was a cult of personality and apparently still is today.

.

Heard this from a older gentlemen that knew Bruce in Hong Kong... He said Bruce was very athletic and fast but, his kung fu was not very good!

TenTigers
04-06-2012, 08:28 AM
there was an article written years ago in IKF by Hawkins Cheung. He discussed and I believe printed a copy of the letter Bruce sent him from US where he stated,"There are people working in restaurants and waiting on tables that have, dare I say it, greater skill than Sifu." (paraphrased)
It is well-known that Bruce Lee was referring to Lam Sang and Mark Foon, who owned and worked the Bamboo Forest (Jook Lum)Restaurant in NYC's Chinatown.

Drake
04-06-2012, 11:54 AM
there was an article written years ago in IKF by Hawkins Cheung. He discussed and I believe printed a copy of the letter Bruce sent him from US where he stated,"There are people working in restaurants and waiting on tables that have, dare I say it, greater skill than Sifu." (paraphrased)
It is well-known that Bruce Lee was referring to Lam Sang and Mark Foon, who owned and worked the Bamboo Forest (Jook Lum)Restaurant in NYC's Chinatown.

It's the same with musicians. It has less to do with skill and more to do with dumb luck and marketability. Some of the best guitarists around are playing in bars and friends' basements.

LaterthanNever
04-06-2012, 01:35 PM
"There are people working in restaurants and waiting on tables that have, dare I say it, greater skill than Sifu."

He's probably right! Watch the great documentary "Needle Thru Brick"..it's about the kung fu Diaspora from China and some hidden masters..

TopCrusader
04-06-2012, 03:42 PM
there was an article written years ago in IKF by Hawkins Cheung. He discussed and I believe printed a copy of the letter Bruce sent him from US where he stated,"There are people working in restaurants and waiting on tables that have, dare I say it, greater skill than Sifu." (paraphrased)
It is well-known that Bruce Lee was referring to Lam Sang and Mark Foon, who owned and worked the Bamboo Forest (Jook Lum)Restaurant in NYC's Chinatown.

I dont get it ....how do they know he was talking about Lam Sang & Mark Foon from a statement like that?

TenTigers
04-06-2012, 07:39 PM
I dont get it ....how do they know he was talking about Lam Sang & Mark Foon from a statement like that?
Because people in the Jook Lum community have long known the story.
Nobody really uses it as a means to promote themselves or the system, as it stands on its own merits.The fact that Bruce Lee may have learned a smattering of Jook Lum says nothing about the system, so there was never a need to go shout it from the rooftops.

btw- there are pictures of Bruce Lee doing SPM. he's wearing what appears to be striped pajama bottoms, and it is taken outdoors. If anyone has them, please post them.

LaterthanNever
04-06-2012, 10:07 PM
"The fact that Bruce Lee may have learned a smattering of Jook Lum says nothing about the system, so there was never a need to go shout it from the rooftops."

Quite right TT!! One could also say the same about other styles that Bruce "held an interest in". Someone supposedly took a detailed list of ones he studied predominately being column one, studied for a time yet did not stick with being column two and "held an interest in" being the 3rd column .

Many who claim to have known Bruce seem to echo the sentiment that he was rather impatient of a man. Then of course you have the know it alls who write articles such as "What Bruce would have done if he had lived" and yet either never met the man..much less learned from him. The fact of the matter is..once the man is dead..my opinion, yours, Chuck Norris' and everyone else in the world is equally valid since anyone can speculate.

Facts are..unless he can climb out of the grave in the Capitol Hill(a neigborhood in Seattle) cemetary, NOONE knows for sure what he would have done.

Maybe he would have said "I think I am going to give SPM/Hung Kuen/some other art" another try and learn the whole thing from front to back? Maybe he would have gone to William Cheung or Wong Shun Leung and said "I want to learn the rest of style".

The fact is..holding an interest in the style is ok I guess..but it gives us nothing to go on as far as why he stopped.

Didn't Chuck Norris(no slouch in the martial arts department) study some other things too? Does it pay to spin our wheels forever and start a "Chuck Norris studied Shaolin-Do" claim? :rolleyes: Come to think of it..that would be too funny!!! :eek:

sanjuro_ronin
04-09-2012, 07:23 AM
Whether or not BL ever fought anyone of the high level class is debatable.
We don't know and there is no proof he did.
That trained fighters came to him and trained with him and spoke highly of his skill says something.
That he was smart enough to adapt what worked for him ( and against him) shows that he had a fighters mentality.
That he valued physical conditioning shows he had a fighters mentality.
Did he fight?
Yes I believe he did because you don't get his views on fighting and training without having fought, you don't modify your core system and "fix" its missing pieces unless you have tested it and found it needed fixing.
Who he fought is irrelevant.
That he DID fight seems to be the correct impression that the development of his style leads us to.