Hip grinding whilst trying to do box splits, is this normal?

[KJW]

Hi

I've been doing Crane Kung Fu for 10 years, but just recently I have stepped up my training quite considerably.

For a while I feel I have coasted along, just going through the motions, but I'm now desperate to get my black sash. Not that I think sash colour is particularly important but it would be a great personal achievement for me. I haven't wasted my training, I suppose like anyone else my dedication has fluctuated, depending on my circumstances at the time, although my Kung fu has remained constant.

In the course of my increased training I've been doing bag work, stretching and also trying to get down into box splits, which I have never been able to do (probably due to lack of application). I've noticed since I started trying box splits that I seem to have a bit of a grinding sensation or popping in my hips, particularly on the left; sometimes it's while I'm stretching, other times it can be if I bend down (doing some innocuous task). Is this cause for alarm, or should I carry on regardless? I'm 35, I did wonder if perhaps I'm too old to be able to get all the way down.

Kev

[Scott R. Brown]

Hi

I've been doing Crane Kung Fu for 10 years, but just recently I have stepped up my training quite considerably.

For a while I feel I have coasted along, just going through the motions, but I'm now desperate to get my black sash. Not that I think sash colour is particularly important but it would be a great personal achievement for me. I haven't wasted my training, I suppose like anyone else my dedication has fluctuated, depending on my circumstances at the time, although my Kung fu has remained constant.

In the course of my increased training I've been doing bag work, stretching and also trying to get down into box splits, which I have never been able to do (probably due to lack of application). I've noticed since I started trying box splits that I seem to have a bit of a grinding sensation or popping in my hips, particularly on the left; sometimes it's while I'm stretching, other times it can be if I bend down (doing some innocuous task). Is this cause for alarm, or should I carry on regardless? I'm 35, I did wonder if perhaps I'm too old to be able to get all the way down.

Kev

No, you have loosened the joint a bit. As long as you have no associated severe chronic pain, you should be all right. If you start experiencing a chronic dull ache, I would have it looked at. I have been popping my hips for years. Be sure you keep your hips muscles toned and don't over extend or hyper extend your hips when doing kicks!

[KJW]

Thanks Scott

No there doesn't seem to be any pain with it, it just feels a bit funny. The fact that I've loosened the joint as you say, is that a good or a bad thing?

[Scott R. Brown]

Thanks Scott

No there doesn't seem to be any pain with it, it just feels a bit funny. The fact that I've loosened the joint as you say, is that a good or a bad thing?

If your muscles are weak, it can be bad, you could dislocate your hip because the will be nothing to keep them from hyper/over extending. As long as the surrounding muscles stay strong and you don't hyperextend or overextend your kicks you should be fine. Don't attempt to kick beyond your natural limits and keep your hips strong!

ADDENDUM: and maintain proper kicking form!

[YouKnowWho]

I'm 35, I did wonder if perhaps I'm too old to be able to get all the way down.

I did high kicks all my life. Today when I do high kick, I can feel in my hip joint, my born is touching another bone as if there is nothing in between. Not sure this is just me or this also happen to others. If somthing like this can happen to you in your old age (30 years from now), the high kick may not be worthwhile to train. There are other userful combat skills that won't tear your hip joint like the high kick does.

[Fa Xing]

Thanks Scott

No there doesn't seem to be any pain with it, it just feels a bit funny. The fact that I've loosened the joint as you say, is that a good or a bad thing?

It depends; for me personally, I would do some sort of resistance training that engages the hip flexors and extensors to keep the muscles strong and pliable along with your stretching.

[Scott R. Brown]

I did high kicks all my life, today when I do high kick, I can feel in my hip joint, my born is touching another bone as if there is nothing in between. Not sure this is just me or this also happen to others. If somthing like this can happen to you in your old age (30 years from now), the high kick training may not be worthwhile to train. There are other userful combat skills that won't tear your hip joint.

Have you had that x-rayed? It sounds like osteoporosis! This can happen to just about anyone, but us athletes do tend to get it sooner due to joint injuries. But this happens to none athletes all the time. Part of it is luck and genetics.

[YouKnowWho]

Have you had that x-rayed? It sounds like osteoporosis! This can happen to just about anyone, but us athletes do tend to get it sooner due to joint injuries. But this happens to none athletes all the time. Part of it is luck and genetics.

Thanks for the suggestion. I'll get a check up on that. It doesn't happen for front kick, crescent kick, or round house kick. It only happens in high side kick, hook kick, or spin hook kick. Sometime I do feel flustrate that the more I kick, the more that my hip joint hurt. Old age sucks. :(

[KJW]

If your muscles are weak, it can be bad, you could dislocate your hip because the will be nothing to keep them from hyper/over extending. As long as the surrounding muscles stay strong and you don't hyperextend or overextend your kicks you should be fine. Don't attempt to kick beyond your natural limits and keep your hips strong!

My legs are pretty strong I think. I cycle to work 2-3 time a week (a 25 mile round trip). I used to play a lot of Football aswell but then my Kung Fu training replaced that as we train on a Sunday now..

Thanks for the advice, it's good to know I'm not going to do any lasting damage. I did make myself a stretching aparatus aswell which I have been using (when it's not raining) it consists of a pulley and a rope and cradle to put my leg in. I saw it in one of Bruce Lees books.

Kev

[Fa Xing]

I did high kicks all my life. Today when I do high kick, I can feel in my hip joint, my born is touching another bone as if there is nothing in between. Not sure this is just me or this also happen to others. If somthing like this can happen to you in your old age (30 years from now), the high kick may not be worthwhile to train. There are other userful combat skills that won't tear your hip joint like the high kick does.

The inter-articular cartilage can wear down after some time. If it's not hurting, I would't consider it serious enough to wear you should have it looked at right away, but perhaps next time you go for a check up.

[YouKnowWho]

The inter-articular cartilage can wear down after some time. If it's not hurting, I would't consider it serious enough to wear you should have it looked at right away, but perhaps next time you go for a check up.

Thanks again for your good advice. A friend of mine had a hip replacement. the outcome is not very good.

[Fa Xing]

My legs are pretty strong I think. I cycle to work 2-3 time a week (a 25 mile round trip). I used to play a lot of Football aswell but then my Kung Fu training replaced that as we train on a Sunday now..

Thanks for the advice, it's good to know I'm not going to do any lasting damage. I did make myself a stretching aparatus aswell which I have been using (when it's not raining) it consists of a pulley and a rope and cradle to put my leg in. I saw it in one of Bruce Lees books.

Kev

Cycling and resistance training are two different things, and tax the muscles in different ways.

Pistols, single-leg romanian deadlifts (ie. single-leg straight-leg deadlifts), and turkish getups are my favorites for strengthening the hips.

[Scott R. Brown]

Thanks for the suggestion. I'll get a check up on that. It doesn't happen for front kick, crescent kick, or round house kick. It only happens in high side kick, hook kick, or spin hook kick. Sometime I do feel flustrate that the more I kick, the more that my hip joint hurt. Old age sucks. :(

An x-ray is all it takes to know for sure. A dull ache can be the joint or the tendon. Of course a grinding sound means it is probably the joint. I am the night nurse at a rehab place in SLO. Are you in the Shell Beach near SLO? If so I recommend Sean Devine MD. He did my shoulder some 15 people years ago. I told him I need to hit the bag and lift weights into my 80's and he said he could fix my shoulder and still protect my training. I don't have any problem to this day. I have a number of patients that have had their hips redone by him too. They all love him.


My legs are pretty strong I think. I cycle to work 2-3 time a week (a 25 mile round trip). I used to play a lot of Football aswell but then my Kung Fu training replaced that as we train on a Sunday now..

Thanks for the advice, it's good to know I'm not going to do any lasting damage. I did make myself a stretching aparatus aswell which I have been using (when it's not raining) it consists of a pulley and a rope and cradle to put my leg in. I saw it in one of Bruce Lees books.

Kev

Those activites will definitely help keep the hips strong. If you like apparatuses they are fine but they are not necessary. I have been doing the full splits continuously since I was 17, up until a tendon pull 3 years ago, I am 52 now. I'll be doing the splits again in a year or so! I have never used an apparatus of any kind.

The thing is, when you are active and your activites are forceful you will get injured from time to time, so it is part of the game. Just be smart, and not reckless and know injury will happen from time to time regardless of whether you are an athlete or not. I work with a lady that has broken her arm, ankle and toe all in the past 3 years and she is not an athlete in the least.

[YouKnowWho]

I am the night nurse at a rehab place in SLO. Are you in the Shell Beach near SLO?
I didn't know that we are only 10 minutes apart in driving distance.

Please check your PM.

[bawang]

two traditional terms to describe a powerful martial artist are fists of iron , and thousand pound of strength. being able to splay your legs wide like a stripper doesnt mean anything.

instead of being vain and trying to obtain your black sash, you should do squats.

[KJW]

two traditional terms to describe a powerful martial artist are fists of iron , and thousand pound of strength. being able to splay your legs wide like a stripper doesnt mean anything.

instead of being vain and trying to obtain your black sash, you should do squats.

I think that's a little disrespectful to be honest, you don't know me in the slightest, so what makes you think you are in a position to say I am vain? I qualified the statement about my desire to get my black sash by also saying that I didn't think the colour of my sash was that important.

I posted a question to get some advice, I don't think anything I said warranted an attack on my character.

Kevin

[Scott R. Brown]

I think that's a little disrespectful to be honest, you don't know me in the slightest, so what makes you think you are in a position to say I am vain? I qualified the statement about my desire to get my black sash by also saying that I didn't think the colour of my sash was that important.

I posted a question to get some advice, I don't think anything I said warranted an attack on my character.

Kevin

Don't take bawang seriously! He doesn't mean anything by it. You have to get to know him to know much of what he posts is tongue and cheek!

He had a picture up for years of sammo hung saying Sammo was his mother and she is strong!

He also frequently makes comments about doing squats! He is a serious martial artist, but also clowns around. He is also chinese and knows alot about chinese history and has a unique perspective on how our western culture has romanticized kung fu so that it is hardly recognizable to people from china not trying to milk money off of us ignorant round eyes!

Try to be patient and wait and watch him and you will grow to admire his hilarious schtick as he makes fun of our western romantization of chinese martial arts.

For him his comments are in good fun and not a direct insult to you, but a satirical commenary on western attitudes towards kung fu!:)

[KJW]

Don't take bawang seriously! He doesn't mean anything by it. You have to get to know him to know much of what he posts is tongue and cheek!

He had a picture up for years of sammo hung saying Sammo was his mother and she is strong!

He also frequently makes comments about doing squats! He is a serious martial artist, but also clowns around. He is also chinese and knows alot about chinese history and has a unique perspective on how our western culture has romanticized kung fu so that it is hardly recognizable to people from china not trying to milk money off of us ignorant round eyes!

Try to be patient and wait and watch him and you will grow to admire his hilarious schtick as he makes fun of our western romantization of chinese martial arts.

For him his comments are in good fun and not a direct insult to you, but a satirical commenary on western attitudes towards kung fu!:)

I did wonder, but humour doesn't always come over so well in the written word, unless you are Shakespeare or ****ens..

[KJW]

ha ha it doesn't like ****ens - the author of Oliver Twist then.. :confused:

[Scott R. Brown]

Yeah! That is why for bawang you have to see his pattern over time. He can be blunt and offensive and even seem a bit insulting, but underneath he is just a big naked marshmallow of a man in a jock doing squats and saving the world from fantasy kung fu! :)

BTW the first tip off should have been his mother BOLO, she is strong! :D

I have tried to point out to him she's a MAN, MAN! But he lives in his own fantasy world too, just like the rest of us! :o

[Oso]

i dunno...i had hip popping noises from 25-35...after 35 it turned into pain...after 40 it became debilitating to the point I couldn't kick anymore. don't know what your deal is but it's probabably not 'nuthin'.

there are some knowledgable people here...not a bad place to start for advice, just don't let it be the only place you get advice about your body.

[KJW]

Yeah! That is why for bawang you have to see his pattern over time. He can be blunt and offensive and even seem a bit insulting, but underneath he is just a big naked marshmallow of a man in a jock doing squats and saving the world from fantasy kung fu! :)

BTW the first tip off should have been his mother BOLO, she is strong! :D

I have tried to point out to him she's a MAN, MAN! But he lives in his own fantasy world too, just like the rest of us! :o

I'll have to try to learn to play him at his own game..

[Scott R. Brown]

I'll have to try to learn to play him at his own game..

Exactly, just do a search on him, you will find wacky and humorous posts and serious posts! He knows a great deal about Chinese history, albeit from his own perspective. Also, being Chinese, he has a unique and humorous perspective on Western (White) perspectives (stereotypes) on Chinese Martial Arts and China in general. He can appear racist in his comments from time to time, but the general consensus is that he is not!

I give him a hard time on occasion, because his handle means "garlic" in Tagalog. My wife is a Filipina!

[mickey]

Greetings,

Thomas Kurz and Adrian Crook both do variations of the following exercise before going into stretching. They do it with legs closer together. It is very good for the pelvic area and hips. Check it out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3QGM4mxHFk


mickey

[taai gihk yahn]

one common cause of chronic hip joint popping is "snapping hip syndrome"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snapping_hip_syndrome

the thing is, the audible popping can be from structures around the joint or inside it: meaning it can be as relatively benign as the ITB "snapping" over the greater trochanter of the femur, or it can b indicative of a labral tear within the hip capsule;

bear in mind that the hip joint itself is designed primarily for stability, and it's very difficult therefore to dislocate a hip joint: therefore, excessive hypermobility is not really such a great thing within the joint itself, as it's contrary to the main roll of the joint (stability in weight bearing); of course, it's fine to have good flexibility of the muscles around it, but that's different;

in my personal / professional estimation as a PT, any chronic popping in the hip (or any joint for that matter), is always an issue of some concern: as it suggests either dysfunction within the joint or imbalance of the structures around it, causing abnormal myokinematics, it stands to reason that over time, this can lead to further degeneration and then symptoms of varying types;

also, remember that when u attempt splits, or any sort of movement that requires "stretching", it's more likely that the structures that are prone to hypermobiity are the ones that are going to get further lengthened, unless u r very specific at targeting the hypomobile structures, but this is very difficult (Iyengar yoga approach does a great job at this sort of relative isolation); anyway, what ends up happening at times is the stuff that doesn't move stil doesn't move, whereas the stuff around it that was already prone to excessive movement now moves even more; of course, I haven't examined u so I don't know ur specific situation, but the one thing I'd look at is where in the lumbar spine / pelvis / hips u move from a lot and where u don't move from at all; that should give some idea of what's informing the grinding / popping, which, again, suggests some dysfunction in the area;

my suggestion would b finding a PT (or other similar discipline) that looks at things in a similar way to what I've described above; or u may try to find a certified yoga instructor (I'd go with Iyengar, hands down, any day); whatever u do, I suggest u do it before pushing urself further into ur splits, as u may b doing more harm than good (or not - u may b perfectly fine, I have no idea); if u r doing something innappropriate, better to ease off bef u do more severe damage - if after getting assessed there is nothing to worry about, any loos u may temporarilly experience will b nothing compared to the time u would b on the bench if u do injure urself;

good luck

[taai gihk yahn]

Greetings,

Thomas Kurz and Adrian Crook both do variations of the following exercise before going into stretching. They do it with legs closer together. It is very good for the pelvic area and hips. Check it out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3QGM4mxHFk


mickey
very good for the hips / pelvis what that guy is doing; it's pretty much what Feldenkreis called the "pelvic clock" - an it's probably easier to find a certified Feld. practitioner than and African "yoga" teacher, lol

[Scott R. Brown]

Greetings,

Thomas Kurz and Adrian Crook both do variations of the following exercise before going into stretching. They do it with legs closer together. It is very good for the pelvic area and hips. Check it out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3QGM4mxHFk


mickey


very good for the hips / pelvis what that guy is doing; it's pretty much what Feldenkreis called the "pelvic clock" - an it's probably easier to find a certified Feld. practitioner than and African "yoga" teacher, lol

Movements stolen from dance I might add!:mad:

[Oso]

Greetings,

Thomas Kurz and Adrian Crook both do variations of the following exercise before going into stretching. They do it with legs closer together. It is very good for the pelvic area and hips. Check it out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3QGM4mxHFk


mickey

lol, i thought pron was illegal to post here ;)

[Oso]

one common cause of chronic hip joint popping is "snapping hip syndrome"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snapping_hip_syndrome

the thing is, the audible popping can be from structures around the joint or inside it: meaning it can be as relatively benign as the ITB "snapping" over the greater trochanter of the femur, or it can b indicative of a labral tear within the hip capsule;

bear in mind that the hip joint itself is designed primarily for stability, and it's very difficult therefore to dislocate a hip joint: therefore, excessive hypermobility is not really such a great thing within the joint itself, as it's contrary to the main roll of the joint (stability in weight bearing); of course, it's fine to have good flexibility of the muscles around it, but that's different;

in my personal / professional estimation as a PT, any chronic popping in the hip (or any joint for that matter), is always an issue of some concern: as it suggests either dysfunction within the joint or imbalance of the structures around it, causing abnormal myokinematics, it stands to reason that over time, this can lead to further degeneration and then symptoms of varying types;

also, remember that when u attempt splits, or any sort of movement that requires "stretching", it's more likely that the structures that are prone to hypermobiity are the ones that are going to get further lengthened, unless u r very specific at targeting the hypomobile structures, but this is very difficult (Iyengar yoga approach does a great job at this sort of relative isolation); anyway, what ends up happening at times is the stuff that doesn't move stil doesn't move, whereas the stuff around it that was already prone to excessive movement now moves even more; of course, I haven't examined u so I don't know ur specific situation, but the one thing I'd look at is where in the lumbar spine / pelvis / hips u move from a lot and where u don't move from at all; that should give some idea of what's informing the grinding / popping, which, again, suggests some dysfunction in the area;

my suggestion would b finding a PT (or other similar discipline) that looks at things in a similar way to what I've described above; or u may try to find a certified yoga instructor (I'd go with Iyengar, hands down, any day); whatever u do, I suggest u do it before pushing urself further into ur splits, as u may b doing more harm than good (or not - u may b perfectly fine, I have no idea); if u r doing something innappropriate, better to ease off bef u do more severe damage - if after getting assessed there is nothing to worry about, any loos u may temporarilly experience will b nothing compared to the time u would b on the bench if u do injure urself;

good luck

yea...what he said. ;)

[Lee Chiang Po]

Sometimes when we ask for advice we have to expect bluntness. Sometimes there is really no way of telling someone what you think without being a little blunt. But again, you asked for it, so take it in stride.
My advice is to stop doing it. It shouldn't really cause you a problem until just before you go in for your first hip replacement. The human body is built a certain way, and it requires a great deal of stretching and abuse in order to get it to do certain things. These things may not hurt you for years, but realize that you grow older with each day, and eventually you will see the er of your ways.
If you have to train hard in order to do something, it will never serve you well. You will have to continue to train at it just to be able to keep it. Then comes the days when you can not do it as well, then not at all. Then you have another problem with all the damage you have done over the years.
My advice to you, and it is the best advice on this subject you will get, is to only do what you can do easily. Things you can do without harming yourself in the long run, and things that you can expect to do when you get old.

[David Jamieson]

try a few rounds of this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUKKhF-vR2E

if it doesn't work out, at least you get the consolation prize of added boner. :)

[Scott R. Brown]

try a few rounds of this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUKKhF-vR2E

if it doesn't work out, at least you get the consolation prize of added boner. :)

There was a tv show back in the 80's with just that very thing! I think it was on showtime or usa network or something like that. I just remember I had a buddy who watched it all the time. Since I didn't get that channel makes me think it was a pay channel or I would have watched it all the time and I would remember it better.

[Taixuquan99]

Greetings,

Thomas Kurz and Adrian Crook both do variations of the following exercise before going into stretching. They do it with legs closer together. It is very good for the pelvic area and hips. Check it out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3QGM4mxHFk


mickey

All the lines of the style I do do that same exercise, and I trained a variation of Chen style in Henan that did that a lot. I used to get hip popping, largely from bad body mechanics in the approaches I was doing, and that solved it, not as an physical therapy in the healing sense, but by entraining proper motion of the entire region in relation to motion. Mind you, the version we do is not left just to circles, but applied to any motion of the hip, and has some detail work that makes the usage make sense.

The main popping I used to get in my hips was after I kicked, and as I was setting my leg down, and it was purely because the structure and the motion were at odds. The structure didn't need fixing, the motion did. Fortunately, I fixes the motion before the structure did need fixing!

[spiralstair]

Hi KJW,

"Hip popping", could be O.K.. Hip "grinding", Not O.K..
People's hip structure varies, person to person. People who drop into splits with ease prove nothing beyond what they can do themselves. They may be set up genetically to have an easy time of it, they may be ignoring subtle or even obvious signs that they will be limited in their movement in the future.

Splits and high kicks 'cold'? Great trick for showing off at parties...value in life? Debatable skill.
Listening to and interpreting the signals your body is giving you about what your mind is involved in?
Priceless, individual, and non debatable skill.

Good luck.

Spiralstair