What do you look for in a coach?

[RWilson]

Notice I said coach and not teacher because teacher connotates someone that collects money by doing little activity with students.

1. I look for if said coach has used his skills multiple time in competition.

2. I see of the coach actually works out with students.

3. I look to see who the coach's teacher was. Having a random Chinese guy as a teacher is not a good Resume builder. It just is not.

4. I like a laid back fun attitude to the coach and school.

5. I will not study with a teacher who only has forms to show or products with just forms.


6. I will choose to study with a boxing, wrestling, bjj coach who has spent years studying that topic as opposed to a guy who studied with one guy who was a master killer.

Mr. Patterson, you mentioned I should go to Vegas to see what you have to offer. You also tooted your own horn about a book you wrote and about how amazing your Kung fu business knowledge. Why would a mixed martial artist go to study with you over a seasoned boxing or wrestling coach? With all your amazing business knowledge you have not represented what you could offer someone who does not want to do pi quan. Why toot your own horn without including the meat in the argument?

[Drake]

Give it up. He's not going to sleep with you.

[SPJ]

we learn more from our punching bags, mittens

we learn more from our throwing dummie

we learn more from our training partner

we learn with or without a coach.

be your own coach or motivator.

if you are into professional fight in the ring, then you want the best coach around or who ever coaches the champ, that is.

:D

[YouKnowWho]

Why would a mixed martial artist go to study with you over a seasoned boxing or wrestling coach?

- A boxing coach can't teach you how to integrate wrestling into boxing.
- A wrestling coach can't teach you how to integrate boxing into wrestling.

When your

- boxing coach teaches you hook punch, he doesn't have to worry about single leg.
- wrestling coach teaches you single leg, he doesn't have to worry about hook punch.
- Sanshou/Sanda coach teaches you single leg, he has to worry about boxer's hook punch, MT guy's knee, TCMA guy's elbow dropping, SC guy's leg sticky, ... His job is much more complicated.

A "Sanshou/Sanda coach" can teach you how to integrate kick, punch, lock, throw, and ground game (if he also has ground game training). He will teach you how to use your:

- kicking skill to enter your opponent's kicking range,
- punching skill to enter your opponent's punching range,
- grappling skill to create a clinch,
- throwing skill to take your opponent down,
- ground skill to get a dominate position,
- ground skill to finish your opponent.

A "Sanshou/Sanda coach" can save you a lot of effort if you try to do that integration all by yourself.

IMO, a "Sanshou/Sanda coach" is like a general contractor. A boxing coach or a wrestling coach is like a sub-contractor. They belong to different job categories.

[Frost]

- A boxing coach can't teach you how to integrate wrestling into boxing.
- A wrestling coach can't teach you how to integrate boxing into wrestling.

When your

- boxing coach teaches you hook punch, he doesn't have to worry about single leg.
- wrestling coach teaches you single leg, he doesn't have to worry about hook punch.
- Sanshou/Sanda coach teaches you single leg, he has to worry about boxer's hook punch, MT guy's knee, TCMA guy's elbow dropping, SC guy's leg sticky, ... His job is much more complicated.

A "Sanshou/Sanda coach" can teach you how to integrate kick, punch, lock, throw, and ground game (if he also has ground game training). He will teach you how to use your:

- kicking skill to enter your opponent's kicking range,
- punching skill to enter your opponent's punching range,
- grappling skill to create a clinch,
- throwing skill to take your opponent down,
- ground skill to get a dominate position,
- ground skill to finish your opponent.

A "Sanshou/Sanda coach" can save you a lot of effort if you try to do that integration all by yourself.

IMO, a "Sanshou/Sanda coach" is like a general contractor. A boxing coach or a wrestling coach is like a sub-contractor. They belong to different job categories.
Actually my wrestling coach does know how to teach wrestling for MMA, and does teach how to deal with strikes as you enter the clinch, its not just sanda coaches that can do this, I also know striking coaches that have modified their game to take into account the takedown

As for sanda having a ground game….really?

My grappling coach has also trained multiple UFC guys
If you go to a wrestling coach who only trains wrestling and a boxing coach whop only trains boxing then yes they are specialists, but most MMA gyms will have wrestling and striking coaches who understand the complete game even if they only specialize in part of it

[Dragonzbane76]

These days a lot of coaches from specializations are teaching for the mma venue. Expansion and money have opened peoples eyes to the world of fighting on multiple levels. Seen it in many of the gyms ive freqented,they usually have a coach that comes from a specific background but teaches what they know wih all ranges in mind.

[RWilson]

Give it up. He's not going to sleep with you.

You must have used your military intelligence to figure that one out.

[RWilson]

we learn more from our punching bags, mittens

we learn more from our throwing dummie

we learn more from our training partner

we learn with or without a coach.

be your own coach or motivator.

if you are into professional fight in the ring, then you want the best coach around or who ever coaches the champ, that is.

:D

I do not agree. You need a partner to learn throws. A Wrestlkng dummy does not resist you.

You learn power from hitting mits but to time your hit to a human being you need a partner.

[Brule]

I look for someone who can do what he says and not be afraid or maybe hesitant is a better word, to work out with the class.

[Iron_Eagle_76]

Knowledge is the most essential part of being a good coach or sifu. If a teacher does not know the correct training methods and how to teach these methods to students, he could be in the best shape in the world and a fighting god and it won't matter.

I personally train with and do all aspects of what I teach with my students, because I feel it is brings out the best in students and leads by example, that and I enjoy being in shape and maintaining my skills.

That being said, one with knowledge can be just as effective. I doubt Cus D'Amato was much of a fighter in his later years but he developed Mike Tyson into a phenom. Knowledge is always the highest power.

[Sardinkahnikov]

In addition to what has been said by the previous posters, I'd like to add that I believe that good coaches usually stress the importance of physical conditioning, even if it is not done in class due to time constraints. If the training session doesn't punish you for having weak, unconditioned muscles, then something is wrong.

[YouKnowWho]

As for sanda having a ground game….really?
Even if the current Sanda doesn't have ground game. But it can't stop any Sanda coach to educate himself in the ground game. We should not care about whether

- TCMA had ground game or not.
- WC has elbow, knee, hook punch, upper cut or not.
- ...

We should only care about whether they will have it today and future generation or not.

[Lucas]

A sanda guys ground game is just like a boxing coach having takedown defense or a wrestling coach who can deal with strikes. Cross trained is all. Especially with sanda guys crossing into mma. Its more common now for sandguys to train bjj. Bjj/sanda is a complete skillset.

[MightyB]

is that right combination of skill plus knowledge and they have to have the complete understanding of what they are about and know how to relate that to you.

The TCMA world I know has very little fraud. It doesn't mean that they don't attract nut jobs - all MA schools do. It's just nutjobs usually don't want to put in the work that's required in Judo, BJJ, Boxing, Wrestling, Kick Boxing, and MMA. So you get an accumulation of nutjobs in "traditional" MA and McDojos.

Now I don't blame the teacher for wanting to make a buck if that's their only source of income. You can't expect them to kick everyone out. But you can expect them to have a class for those who are interested in doing the hard work that's necessary to become a good martial artist. If they insist on lumping everyone together under the same banner and in doing so teach a water downed pu$$ified version of kung fu to everybody and expect that to fly?!?!? Then I say call them out for being douche bags.

[Mike Patterson]

Mr. Patterson, you mentioned I should go to Vegas to see what you have to offer. You also tooted your own horn about a book you wrote and about how amazing your Kung fu business knowledge. Why would a mixed martial artist go to study with you over a seasoned boxing or wrestling coach? With all your amazing business knowledge you have not represented what you could offer someone who does not want to do pi quan. Why toot your own horn without including the meat in the argument?

In order of their appearance:

1) I actually said that you are welcome to come see for yourself, up to and including playing with either my fighters or myself if that is your heart's desire.

2) I mentioned that to make a point regarding why people may make the choices they do make.

3) They come to study with me from word of mouth. As I said, I'm good at what I do.

4) I don't only do/teach Pi Chuan.

5) What "meat"? That thread was filled with pretty much nothing but the same ground that has been being covered here since I arrived. I've already stated my views. Agree or disagree. Believe or don't believe. My views have been offered from my personal experiences and if you don't like them, that is certainly your right.

Now, I answered this because once again you brought my name specifically into this thread. And I always try to answer questions put directly to me as that is my nature. But my weekends belong to myself and my wife and I will not be watching this thread. So please don't get ruffled if I don't respond to your "views". Cheers!

[Lucas]

In order of their appearance:

1) I actually said that you are welcome to come see for yourself, up to and including playing with either my fighters or myself if that is your heart's desire.

2) I mentioned that to make a point regarding why people may make the choices they do make.

3) They come to study with me from word of mouth. As I said, I'm good at what I do.

4) I don't only do/teach Pi Chuan.

5) What "meat"? That thread was filled with pretty much nothing but the same ground that has been being covered here since I arrived. I've already stated my views. Agree or disagree. Believe or don't believe. My views have been offered from my personal experiences and if you don't like them, that is certainly your right.

Now, I answered this because once again you brought my name specifically into this thread. And I always try to answer questions put directly to me as that is my nature. But my weekends belong to myself and my wife and I will not be watching this thread. So please don't get ruffled if I don't respond to your "views". Cheers!

and that people, is how you respond and behave with class.

[Ray Pina]

I look for a coach who has been successful and currently trains successful people in competition.

I have a primary grappling coach who wrestled in college and BJJ since. Over 15 years of competition. He's also training kickboxing and has won 2 mma matches.... though at a time when MMA is not at it's current level. He just got his brown belt from Falvio Behring.

When healthy, I train with him and his team 3 nights a week for 3 hours no matter what.

When I have a specific fight scheduled, I train the BJJ 3 nights a week with an MMA focus: working under hooks to striking/takedowns, ground and pound, escapes to reverse or escapes to stand.

Then I train boxing 3 days a week with Gingi, a local former pro boxer who was something like 19-5.

Two days a week I'll go to either MMA gym for training and sparring in a cage.

At this stage in my life I have devoted over 30 years to stand up fighting. Now BJJ is my core course of study.... it provides awesome work out, I learn new material, and get to play rough and competitively with clear and cut losers without getting my teeth knocked in..... though my shoulder is wrecked no and ultimately, I've been injured more training BJJ. I'm also older, 37, now.

[Ray Pina]

As far as a coach helping me blend different aspects of the game, it's something that just happens naturally all the time. First and foremost my concern isn't MMA..... it's Vale Tudo. When I take you down I'm focused on controlling you so you can't even bite or scratch.

My boxing coach makes my training bobbing and weaving, doing combos forward and backwards ducking the rope.... I hate it. Hardly ever use it. But it's part of boxing training.

In BJJ there's times going to turtle is absolutely the right thing to do..... it's taken me a long time to accept that. Doesn't mean you camp out in that position and have a sandwich. But sometimes you have to transition there.

Going for a double leg opens you to knees.... ducking opens you to knees. Throwing any punch opens you...... everything is a give and a take. You have to be smart. You have to have great timing. You have to have courage.... a coach can't help with some things. In some ways fighters are born. Maybe great fighters are created. I don't know.

[YouKnowWho]

A coach can help you not to make the common mistake. When you dodge under your opponent's hook punch, if you don't use your hand to cover your opponent's elbow, your opponent can give you an elbow strike on the side of your head, or give you a "reverse head lock (guillotine)" on your neck. That extra hand move can save you a lot of problem.

When you block your coach's punch, and your coach always borrows your force, spins his arm, and gives you a hook punch (or back fist) on your head, it won't take long for you to develop the correct judgement "try not to let your opponent to borrow your force".

Also a coach can help you to reduce your risk to the minimum when you shoot in for "single leg" - safe entry.

[ShaolinDan]

Troll kung fu forums until I find someone worthy of teaching me. :p

[Taixuquan99]

Batman would be a much less compelling comic if his fanatic obsession was Mike Patterson.

[Dragonzbane76]

Batman would be a much less compelling comic if his fanatic obsession was Mike Patterson.

obsession runs deep in some people... it's apparent in this forum. :)

[RWilson]

A potential coach would have to have won a few grappling competitions before I was to learn any kind of grappling from him. Otherwise I could pay my 10 year old nephew to teach me grappling and would get the same theoretical nonsense.

But that is not how the world works. People can teach nowadays with nothing to show for a martial skills Resume. David Ross can you show us the real kung fu striking you pulled of during your san da fight? Years of lama punches in the air really helped you out that day. Post the video to show the real kung fu.

[EarthDragon]

RWilson, you seem very bitter, its attitudes like yours that make teachers like Mr patterson just laugh at you.

what makes you worthy of being coached should be the question here, dont put down what you think teachers are supposed to be in your humble opionion, lets start there.

[Minghequan]

That he/she cares!

[David Jamieson]

Being a good competitor has pretty much zip, zero, nada, nothing to do with being a good teacher or coach or trainer.

So, that is a completely myopic and self defeating way to go about it.

I look for competence and knowledge in a teacher.

[ShaolinDan]

Seeing the competence and knowledge of my teacher impressed me, but it was seeing the competence and knowledge of his students that really sold me.

If a coach is producing students with skills you'd like to have then that is someone to train with.

If you're going to be staying with someone a long time, you've got to like them as a person too, though--or at least it helps a lot.

[David Jamieson]

Seeing the competence and knowledge of my teacher impressed me, but it was seeing the competence and knowledge of his students that really sold me.

If a coach is producing students with skills you'd like to have then that is someone to train with.

If you're going to be staying with someone a long time, you've got to like them as a person too, though--or at least it helps a lot.

Yep, pretty much this.