Chinese Military Kung Fu [Archive] - Kung Fu Magazine Forums

zen_celt

10-22-2003, 09:58 PM

Just thinking-
I was reading this week's Army Times and it's front page article is on real world hand to hand combat in today's Army and how it's being used in Afghanistan and Iraq. There is a current push to promote a system comprised of Judo, boxing, wrestling, Muay Thai, and BJJ for the modern soldier saying these systems are proven to be effective and primarily, can be taught fairly easily and made to work without too much theory, thought, and precision teaching- basically the kind of training that is often taught in MA schools. The idea is to teach a mass number of people combat effective techniques quickly and efficiently in such a manner as the student will also be able to retain, and thus use, the skills when it counts. Now, I think Kung Fu is effective and can be utilized on the streets and would most likely be better suited for use against multiple attackers than the systems stated aboveHowever, I have also noticed a number of people(on this forum and elsewhere) state that kung fu takes time to learn, which is the reason a 6 month student of Muay Thai can whoop a 6 month student of kung fu. So, can it be taught for military use, and if yes, how so?
Another question- Is it necessary(and if so, possible) to modify existing kung fu techniques to make them usable while wearing standard military issue combat gear (i.e. LCE, helmet, canteens, bayonet, M16, flak vest, combat boots etc.)? I know kung fu was taught to the Chinese armies of old, and probably today, and is used by modern day police, so why not the U.S. military?
Maybe it is and I just don't know it?
-ZC

Ikken Hisatsu

10-22-2003, 10:29 PM

it takes years to become truly good at kung fu (well in my opinion)

think of it this way- someone who has been boxing for twenty years vs someone who has been practicing kung fu (under a good teacher) for twenty years- my moneys on the kung fu guy. same scenario after two years- boxing guy will knock his arse down.

Now why on earth would the military want to spend twenty years training someone- by that time they would be nearly 40.

SaMantis

10-23-2003, 06:45 AM

I agree - teaching one style of kung fu to the military would be useless on a lot of levels: the time it takes to become effective, the changing requirements of military missions, and the impact that 70 pounds of gear has on any given fighting style.

For most soldiers, hand-to-hand training is presented with a "less is more" perspective, meaning, they learn 1-3 techniques to deal with a limited number of combat situations, and they train those techniques like crazy. This is basic combat training for every soldier, with the aim of staying alive or repulsing a direct assault whether he/she is rear-echelon support or front-line infantry. However, front-line troops receive more detailed training, in accordance with their type of mission (Green Beret vs. paratrooper, e.g.).

In terms of a kung fu system -- the perspective of training cadre is that it takes years to really "become" a soldier. Many elements have to be added to a soldier's knowledge and skill, beyond basic training, in order to become an effective individual fighter. With that in mind, you might look at soldiering as a form of kung fu in itself.

ShaolinTiger00

10-23-2003, 06:50 AM

and would most likely be better suited for use against multiple attackers than the systems stated above

stupidest thing I've heard all day.

but the day is young....

;)

Tak

10-23-2003, 06:55 AM

So...what was the difference in ancient China? Were there a lot more soldiers-for-life?

SaMantis

10-23-2003, 07:36 AM

well, with my vast knowledge of ancient China (that=almost none) I'm going to evoke the power of assumption and say, there were quite a few career soldiers then (mostly officers) who would spend years, even a lifetime, sometimes from childhood, learning the art of soldiering. However, during times of war, men were pressed into service for short periods, as needed. Their knowledge of warfare would be considerably less than that of professional soldiers, but they did learn rudiments of fighting. When the emergency was over, they went home.

It's not much different today, except that the army prefers all its soldiers to be constantly proficient, which is why in addition to career (active-duty) soldiers, there are several levels of reserves, all of whom are expected to maintain a basic combat skill & fitness level.

Which didn't really answer your question. Sorry.

lkfmdc

10-23-2003, 08:18 AM

I honestly can't believe this was posted.....

Does anyone READ the things I post around here at all :confused:

This is the dumbest thing I've read all week, but the week is still not over yet

SaMantis

10-23-2003, 08:44 AM

Does anyone READ the things I post around here at all

No, not really.

lkfmdc

10-23-2003, 08:58 AM

well, that WOULD explain the stupid things that are posted here

No_Know

10-23-2003, 10:40 AM

Kungfu basics is for a foundation of strength, endurance, and flexibility and Will. Soldiers kind-of get- that (mostly)-ish as they are healthy they can go to forms part of training.

Actively soldier might have different training package than non military student.

Kung-fu from can be shown to give an idea how to move in multiple person attacks while attacking or defending...

A form could be made-up with general :-) -minded techniques which address every expectable attack from a group of individuals.

And this twelve moves or so can be practiced in any order. Practicing with a different order to help with flexibility of use. perhaps.

An introduction as warm-up and signifier of who trained you and a closing to verify your training, instruction. Different groups of the U.S. military could have their own small set of specified techniques for their own all-encompassing form. And when the people show someone they leave-out the introduction. Or only instructors or the betters at it get the opening And closing.

This all-encompassing form of a few techniques specified to branch; subform division; subform unit...~sort of thing could go to Secret-service types (They already have it but we are not supposed to know...(Joke, that was a humorism), police-types.?.

Very good.

Ford Prefect

10-23-2003, 10:51 AM

I think their current system is much more suited to a soldiers needs and time availability.

fa_jing

10-23-2003, 11:48 AM

No_Know: They do have such a form - that rifle-twirl thingie.

jun_erh

10-23-2003, 12:08 PM

I was fliping through channels yesterday morning and on TCM they had an amazing army training film from like 1960 or something. The techniques were brutal you know police type techniques. They had awesome bayonet stuff.

Dark Knight

10-23-2003, 12:59 PM

A soldier is always with his weapon. Very rare will he not have it. If he runs out of ammo he keeps the weapon and puts on the bayonette or just clubs people.

Empty hand fighting is a skill, so is fighting with a weapon. Now you need time for both. Soldier do not drive out to a training area, they march for hours, train along the way, time is another issue.

Sure they have a new H2H, and it can be used as a sport (grappling) but realities make it difficult to do.

rogue

10-23-2003, 01:47 PM

A soldier is always with his weapon. Very rare will he not have it. If he runs out of ammo he keeps the weapon and puts on the bayonette or just clubs people.

I'll repost this. (http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2003-10-19-silver-star-cover_x.htm) Sometimes things happen when the weapon won't be at hand.

Serpent

10-23-2003, 05:21 PM

Originally posted by lkfmdc
well, that WOULD explain the stupid things that are posted here

Yeah, because only you know the truth. Jesus, you're an arrogant SOB.

:rolleyes:

lkfmdc

10-23-2003, 05:40 PM

At times, we need to look into the newly revised Webster's KFO to English dictionary and see what people REALLY mean

"arrogant SOB" - smart enough to recognize how ridiculous this thread is, ie how silly it is to talk about forms training for close quarters combat.

alternately, educated enough to realize that EVERY successful military that has created a close quarters combat system followed the same formula, ie "live training" as opposed to dead forms training. Russia = Sambo, Japan = Judo, China = San Shou

See how simple things are when you have the proper dictionary

T'ai Ji Monkey

10-23-2003, 05:50 PM

Military does not have much use for H2H and I see the use of it further declining in the future.

Even a few centuries ago, most soldiers relied more on weapons combat than H2H.
For a soldier H2H will always be a backup in case he looses his weapon.

Going to the ground during ancient warfare = death, if you didn't get killed by an enemy soldier there was a good chance of being stepped on by a horse or similar.

Modern day weapons & gear are becoming more and more sophisticated and more time is needed to learn them, problem is there is only so much time given for training thus H2H training will suffer.

The basic H2H training that an average soldier receives is minimal at best and not much time is spend on keeping the skill up-to-date if at all.
Ratios of course vary between units and special forces.

Most people that claim to have taught special forces ofen only did so for a few afternoons, as many get invited to evaluate what they got to offer.

In the end now as well as in the old days Military H2H will be a jumbled lot from a few systems stripped down to the bare essentials to suit the current needs.

neigung

10-23-2003, 06:15 PM

"I have also noticed a number of people(on this forum and elsewhere) state that kung fu takes time to learn, which is the reason a 6 month student of Muay Thai can whoop a 6 month student of kung fu."

I for one think this line of thinking is a big steaming pile.
If you can't apply what you've trained in 6 months time, either what you're learning sucks or your training is crap.

rogue

10-23-2003, 06:31 PM

"arrogant SOB" - smart enough to recognize how ridiculous this thread is, ie how silly it is to talk about forms training for close quarters combat.

alternately, educated enough to realize that EVERY successful military that has created a close quarters combat system followed the same formula, ie "live training" as opposed to dead forms training. Russia = Sambo, Japan = Judo, China = San Shou
I have to agree. Currently I'm learning the combative side of a traditional style of karate and kata is not being used to teach anything. Principles and hands on use of them is how I'm being taught. I still like forms but as a vehicle for progressing in the arts they leave much to be desired.

zen_celt

10-23-2003, 09:56 PM

First, I don't think a number of you who responded to this read my original post in the first place. I asked if Kung Fu could be taught for military use, or does it take too much time for proficiency to be viable for today's soldier? If kung fu is so good, why can't it be used by people who actually fight to survive? I know the basic needs the military wants to fulfill in it's H2H training and I listed them in my first post! I said, "The idea is to teach a mass number of people combat effective techniques quickly and efficiently in such a manner as the student will also be able to retain, and thus use, the skills when it counts." IS KUNG FU SUITED FOR THIS PURPOSE? IF SO, DOES IT NEED TO CHANGE TO ACCOMODATE MODERN SOLDIERING EQUIPMENT?
I never mentioned forms anywhere in my post. I can get into a great debate on the relevance, or irrelevance, of forms on a different thread. That wasn't my question. But if all you think Kung Fu is is forms...then so be it. However, that's still not my question.

SAMantis- Thank you, you at least read the post and gave an opinion without coming off as insulting. But, in relation to your answer, so if one style isn't enough, would a blend of KF styles be effective or do you think KF in general is not suited for military use?

Shaolintiger00- How so? All I've seen and been taught of BJJ(only rudimentry so I can't comment on the whole system, just my exposure) has been one on one, not 3-1 etc. MY CLF study had training for 2-1, 3-1 etc.

Ikfmdc- I have no idea what you posted. I don't live here, I just post when I have a question or feel I can help somebody with my limited knowledge. So I don't read EVERY post, just the ones with titles that interest me. Yours evidently didn't. Also, if your smart enough to see how "silly" it is to discuss FORMS for military H2H, you'd be smart enough to see I NEVER MENTIONED FORMS IN MY POST ANYWAY. There's more to KF than forms.

No_Know- That idea of a form specific to each unit could work but, I think the idea is to have a common set of techniques taught to everyone so all commanders know what they can expect of their soldiers. However, SF units etc, could use that idea, but what systems/techniques would you include?

Ford Prefect- It probably is, I'm just wondering why KF wasn't in there. I'm sure there's a good reason, I'm just trying to figure it out, especially since KF appears to be better suited to multiple attackers than the other systems-at least so far as I know.

Tai Ji Monkey- I beg to differ, I think H2H is becoming increasingly relevant to the modern soldier. The point of the Army Times article was that soldiers need more non-lethal methods of neutralization than are currently available, due to the increase in peace-keeping missions and POW capture where not every encounter necessitates the death of the enemy. I can cite a few examples -either true stories from the article, or hypothetical- later if you would like.

Neigung- I agree, so what, if anything, from KF can be taught to serve the modern military's needs?

-ZC

T'ai Ji Monkey

10-23-2003, 10:17 PM

Originally posted by zen_celt

Tai Ji Monkey- I beg to differ, I think H2H is becoming increasingly relevant to the modern soldier. The point of the Army Times article was that soldiers need more non-lethal methods of neutralization than are currently available, due to the increase in peace-keeping missions and POW capture where not every encounter necessitates the death of the enemy. I can cite a few examples -either true stories from the article, or hypothetical- later if you would like.
-ZC

I would agree when it comes to peace-keeping mission.
OTOH, I think that warfare and peace-keeping should be handled by diffferent groups as I don't think the training can realisticly cover both aspects.

One reason why I think European troops are better suited for that purpose than the US Army.

tnwingtsun

10-23-2003, 11:16 PM

"One reason why I think European troops are better suited for that purpose than the US Army."

Right..........

European troops make better police......:rolleyes:

Serpent

10-23-2003, 11:54 PM

Yeah. They'd make better Americans too.

themeecer

10-24-2003, 12:10 AM

I liked this quote:

Take one fighter and train him in kung fu for a year and he will get beat by a guy that trained as a boxer for a year.

Take one fighter and train him 7 years in kung fu and he can simultaneously beat 4 boxers that were trained for 7 years.

Ikken Hisatsu

10-24-2003, 12:14 AM

yeah but that quote is total bollocks. one guy vs four people who have no training- he will still probably lose.

themeecer

10-24-2003, 12:15 AM

*Smile* I beg to differ. Not had 4, but have had 3. :D

And I do SD of all things. Hehe

No_Know

10-24-2003, 12:27 PM

This technique is mirror--it can be done exactly the same from the left as from the right.

This is Top Deflect or touchdown or TD. A sweeping motion driven by the abdominals.

From the bridge of the nose to the chin is a general guide. The wrists mark the top and bottom of this Zone.

One elbow stays below the breast; the other at or above the top eye.

The forearms (muchly deflect (either) or both). The elbows extend (especially the lower elbow). This releases the forearm/hand/fist.

The configuration of arms seems to allow for bouncing amoungst incomming. If you have a combination that can beat this configuration that could further this well.

Keep it up as a guard against follow-through jabs. but shift the ams so that the jabs do not necessarilly land.feel the intent and follow the jab back-ish to land.

Major retaliation happens with the lower arm (right arm, in the pictures). Second nuckles (leopard's claw) to side of throat or front of throat; side of nosebridge;perpendicular to the top row of teeth;Bottom of fist to chin bottom (like falling on the edge of a table.

Lower arm can receive a second upper (even) mid attack (from center-left to the full-right) and use that momentum to downshot (second nuckles to temple, jawhingenosebridge...

All-Knowing-One

10-24-2003, 12:57 PM

A boxer with 20 years experience will still defeat a kung fu expert with 20 years experience. Grow up.

SaMantis

10-24-2003, 01:23 PM

so if one style isn't enough, would a blend of KF styles be effective or do you think KF in general is not suited for military use?

Thanks z_c, IMO a blend of moves or techniques from KF styles would be effective, just as the current blend in H2H is a collection of techniques from different systems. I see it as a toolbox of sorts, you put in the tools you think you'll use the most and mix & match for each situation. I don't want to say KF is not suited for military use. If you think of KF as a fighting art , which it is, then it is just as viable as any other fighting system currently being "sampled" by the Army.

A boxer with 20 years experience will still defeat a kung fu expert with 20 years experience. Grow up.

As a kung fu student, I must say BWA-HA-HA-HA. Or is it, MWAA-HA-HA-HA. Whatever. Something evilly confident.

rogue, great article, thanks for reposting it. :)

No_Know

10-24-2003, 01:24 PM

Two inches is longer than one inch. Things are not equal.

But thank you one called All-Knowing-One from one called No_Know, for the hypothetical.

lkfmdc

10-24-2003, 01:29 PM

open tag <

sarcasm....

A 20 year boxer would be helpless against a 20 year kung fu man, as case in point, these two deadly Lei Tai champions

http://www.risingdragonmartialart.com/gallery/video/2003sifusteve.mov

Both would destroy Mike Tyson, Roy Jones, or Lewis with their advanced and deadly skills

close tag, end sarcasm

Suntzu

10-24-2003, 01:48 PM

Looks (http://image.pathfinder.com/time/asia/magazine/2002/0225/milf.jpg) like San Da to me....

lkfmdc

10-24-2003, 01:53 PM

as compared to

http://www.angelfire.com/sd2/kingofsanda/army.jpg

http://www.angelfire.com/sd2/kingofsanda/police.jpg

sort of scary aint it :D

Shaolin-Do

10-24-2003, 01:54 PM

"A boxer with 20 years experience will still defeat a kung fu expert with 20 years experience. Grow up."

:rolleyes:

Suntzu

10-24-2003, 01:57 PM

the commies have won :eek:

SifuAbel

10-24-2003, 02:09 PM

Actaully, it looks like any other side and round kicks typical of dozens of kung fu styles.

Pai lum.........hmmmmmmmmm

inic

10-24-2003, 02:11 PM

who needs h2h training when you got a **** gun?! I'd rather spend that time on target practice so i never have to worry about them getting close.
and by the way: the person with 20 years of REAL fighting experience will beat the person with 20 years of SIMULATION fighting. if you have a guy thats been streetfighting for 3 years and does it every week, he'll wipe the floor with that 20-years-been-doing-kungfu-but-only-been-in-2-fights sifu.

lkfmdc

10-24-2003, 02:12 PM

Abel, please, clearly those are KUNG FU kicks, anyone with half a mind can see that :p

Did someone say PIE,,,,,, mmmmmmmmmmm....

Apple or Cherry?

Mutant

10-24-2003, 03:03 PM

Originally posted by SifuAbel
Actaully, it looks like any other side and round kicks typical of dozens of kung fu styles.

yes, but its how theyre trained to use them so they consistently work agaisnt a dangerous opponent.

theyre using efficient and effective training methods.
i'm not ragging on all different kung fu styles, just pointing out that the vast majority of schools may be able to teach a student to strike a stance like that in a form, but to really put it into play and make it work with timing and power takes an approach to training that most schools miss entirely. sanda happens to be a good training method.

thats all. now back to your argument.:D

SifuAbel

10-24-2003, 05:03 PM

Originally posted by lkfmdc
Abel, please, clearly those are KUNG FU kicks, anyone with half a mind can see that :p

Duuuuuuuh!

"Actaully, it looks like any other side and round kicks typical of dozens of
kung fu styles."

SifuAbel

10-24-2003, 05:05 PM

"yes, but its how theyre trained to use them so they consistently work agaisnt a dangerous opponent."

:rolleyes: Oh lord.........

"but to really put it into play and make it work with timing and power takes an approach to training that most schools miss entirely. sanda happens to be a good training method."

You mean sparring does, san da is a venue.

Somehow, I don't think the boys and girls over in iraq give a **** about kicks right now.

No_Know

10-24-2003, 05:42 PM

"who needs h2h training when you got a **** gun?! I'd rather spend that time on target practice so i never have to worry about them getting close."

Never have to worry about them getting close? They are theoretically doing the same thing you are. And there are more of them. But I might think that there is the wonder that if you come out of cover to sight your target, you are sighted...then shot.

Never have to worry?

You shoot on the run with how many clips or magazines? that you could not ever run out?

Or perhaps you stay in the same place to get them All yet they do not zero-in on your location or catch your timing for comming-up to shoot?

You shoot with sharpshooter accuracy while moving From a location To a New location of cover? And they still do not shoot at you? Shooting at them seems to make you a target Yin and Yang world in which one lives.

To answer the question though; perhaps the sharpshooting H2H prejudiced person who runs-out of bullets while getting snuck-up-on with all that shooting going on. Hmmmm your back is to the enemy behind you that you did not hear while you shoot. But you're practiced so you can cover both your backs with sharpshooter accuracy?

"and by the way: the person with 20 years of REAL fighting experience will beat the person with 20 years of SIMULATION fighting. if you have a guy thats been streetfighting for 3 years and does it every week, he'll wipe the floor with that 20-years-been-doing-kungfu-but-only-been-in-2-fights sifu."

Wear yourself out before the game. The person with bone breakages and head traumas who Focuses on Certain strategies versus the healthy flexible person with a wide range of strategies. ?

However you care to think about it. Becareful of deluding yourself to Either extreme in perhaps nearly anything.

I No_Know

No_Know

10-24-2003, 05:54 PM

I might think that kicks (shoes) could be important in a sunny country where the ground is sand.

SaMantis

10-25-2003, 06:29 AM

Apple pie wins by a mile ...

:p

KC Elbows

10-25-2003, 06:19 PM

If the concern is restraining or capturing people, I would think boxing and muay thai are right out. Judo and various chin na based arts seem more suitable.

I don't buy that all kung fu has such a big learning curve, I think fighting itself has its own learining curve, and that curve can be shortened by training to some degree, but can only be surpassed by fighting.

As for battle field usage, more attention should go toward basic spear, since those movements are identical to bayonet usage, than should go toward unarmed. Then, knife work, whether basic kung fu knife or kali or whatever. Then training regarding unarmed combat, simple stuff again.

No matter what style is used, the soldiers won't be proficient. Give boxing in basic, and you'll have a bunch of soldiers who aren't really boxers. Same with whatever style.

As for the comment of the best armies using competition arts, that has absolutely nothing to do with their quality as armies. The PRC's armies use spear techniques for bayonet, but that's pretty unimportant. Aside from the issues of peace keeping forces, hand to hand is less important than just about anything else involved in modern warfare. It's less important than quality of dehydrated food. I could be wrong, bayonet charges might be the big thing in warfare now, but I don't think so, and its sure as hell not important whether our soldiers can hip toss in the field.

This is talking the bulk of our forces. I DO believe in more comprehensive training for certain elites. But for 90% of any of today's armies, hth training is for morale more than combat. It's so they don't start thinking "man, without this boomstick, I'm a walking corpse."

So, my answer is that it's not important what system you teach most of the forces, it only matters for the elites, and most of the elites who wish to supplement their regimen will do so by finding the best on their own.

rogue

10-25-2003, 07:18 PM

I'm wondering if h2h is being emphasized in the USMC because of their new urban warfare focus.

KC Elbows

10-25-2003, 07:23 PM

Originally posted by rogue
I'm wondering if h2h is being emphasized in the USMC because of their new urban warfare focus.

Probably the case. I wonder if some of it is also related to regime building in Iraq. Seems like there's more need for hth in capturing/arresting someone than in killing someone these days.

rogue

10-25-2003, 07:36 PM

Arresting someone is a *****. Too many things happen while just trying to secure the subject. Urban warfare happens in close quarters where shooting may get your own guys or non-combatants killed. I think as the battlefield moves from large group movement to the small groups in cities it complicates things and forces the soldiers to have more varied combat skills.

KC Elbows

10-25-2003, 07:54 PM

It seems to me that using the situations the US is in as a guide, that it is better to be able to guide the situation so that conflict is left largely at the level of police activity, in otherwords getting the symathies of the locals and using that and specialized troops to arrest those causing problems, than to fall into full urban warfare, because the broad range of training necessary makes it less likely to table a winning force from accross the globe, whereas the enemy can do so with much greater ease, because urban warfare might not win sympathies from locals for us.

Meaning I think certain specialized troops might be useful with more hth training: but overall, if our entire army needed that, our entire army was being misapplied.

rogue

10-26-2003, 05:32 PM

Army Times Article

Squaring off to build soldiers’ warrior ethos
By Matthew Cox Times staff writer

If the Army wants a force full of warriors, it might want to start by making its soldiers fight one another. That’s what Sgt. 1st Class Matt Larsen is preaching these days as he tries to make his approach to hand-to-hand combat mandatory training for all soldiers. Training all soldiers in unarmed combat in Basic Combat Training may be one way to achieve the Army’s push to ignite a “warrior ethos” throughout the ranks, said Brig. Gen. (P) Benjamin Freakley, commandant of the Infantry Center at Fort Benning, Ga., in remarks at the Infantry Conference in September. As the head of the Army’s Modern Combatives Program, Larsen couldn’t agree more. “The defining characteristic of a warrior is the willingness to close with the enemy,” he said. “You can be good at everything else, but if you’re not willing to go through that door with me, you’re not a warrior,” said Larsen, a former member of 2nd Battalion, 75th Ranger Regiment. His goal is to train a cadre of instructors in every unit in the Army to teach soldiers a system of techniques taken from jujitsu, wrestling, judo and boxing. Since 2000, basic combatives have been taught to infantry officers and NCOs at Fort Benning’s leadership development courses. Larsen wants to expand the training so that it’s uniform and mandatory in all units. The program, Larsen said, builds courage and self-confidence by requiring soldiers to face each other in regular, refereed bouts at the unit level. It’s like “Fight Club” but with a few more rules than were portrayed in the Hollywood movie. The combatives program grew out of Lt. Col. Stan McCrystal’s 1995 effort to reinvigorate hand-to-hand combat in his 2nd Ranger Battalion. But there was a strong belief among the Rangers and many others in the Army that the unarmed combat moves being taught were too specialized to work in combat situations and were a waste of training time. “In a nutshell, there was nothing wrong with the techniques, except they were too high-end — life doesn’t fall into those niches. When life happens, you have to have a system,” said Larsen, who was a staff sergeant in the unit when he was appointed by McCrystal to head a committee to study martial-arts programs all over the world. Larsen’s committee designed a program based on Brazilian jujitsu. From there, a new approach to training emerged that detailed a specific order for teaching each technique to create a complete fighting system. After learning basic grappling holds and joint locks from Brazilian jujitsu, Rangers progressed to takedowns and throws from wrestling and judo and stand-up fighting techniques from boxing and Thailand’s Muay Thai. Larsen, who later headed up combatives training for the 75th and the Ranger Training Brigade in the late 1990s, started leading the Army’s combatives program in October 2000. Since then, Larsen’s program has spread to courses at Benning such as the Infantry Officer Basic Course, the Infantry Captains Course, the Basic Non-Commissioned Officer Course and Advanced Non-Commissioned Officer Course. Larsen would like to see Army units start their own combatives programs — and his program already has caught the attention of the 3rd Infantry Division. 3rd ID’s senior leadership has embraced the idea, said Capt. Jay Yancey, who is in charge of operations for the unit. “They think it’s important,” he said, describing the increased emphasis on less-than-lethal techniques in stabilization efforts like the one in Iraq. “It adds something to their tool belt besides deadly weapons.” The biggest challenge to achieving Armywide success, Larsen said, will be getting enough NCOs trained while the Army’s operational tempo is higher than ever. Mobile training teams may be one solution to teaching the program’s three levels of train-the-trainer courses. •Level I is a five-day course that focuses on the basic grappling and joint locks. •The two-week Level II course deals with more complex techniques while taking time to explain the mechanics behind each move. •Level III is a monthlong course that focuses on standing up unit programs and integrates surprise scenarios in which soldiers unexpectedly have to use combatives, because a hand-to-hand fight never happens when you’re ready, Larsen said. “It doesn’t happen when you have just come out of a locker room and you’re ready. It happens when you have just done a 25-mile road march,” he said. Warrior ethos Larsen’s opinion is underscored by lessons learned in Iraq, especially the March 23 ambush of the 507th Maintenance Company out of Fort Bliss, Texas, in which the enemy killed 11 soldiers and captured six. That, and incidents like it, in part, have triggered the Army’s big push on the warrior ethos. “You’re a soldier first, a technician second,” Lt. Gen. William Wallace, the commander of the Army’s Combined Arms Center at Fort Leavenworth, Kan., said recently at the Association of the United States Army’s annual meeting in Washington. “If there is no rear area, then you have got to be a warrior.” Wallace is leading a study to search for ways to develop a warrior spirit in all soldiers. Larsen argues that combatives is an excellent vehicle for teaching warrior traits such as courage, self-confidence and the will to win, no matter the hardship. “We do not win wars because we are great hand-to-hand fighters. We win wars because of the things it takes to become a great fighter — that’s what the warrior ethos is all about; the soldier has got to have it,” Larsen said. But Larsen has a tough fight ahead of him before his grass-roots effort goes Armywide. The first step will be to get the combatives train-the-trainer courses on the Army Training Requirements and Resources System, a computer database that supports the training needs of the active component and the National Guard and Reserve. The Marine Corps places a strong emphasis on warrior training, as illustrated by the popular saying “every Marine is a rifleman,” Larsen said. “Every Marine, no matter who they are, they think of themselves as a bad !!!, and that is what soldiers need to do, too,” he said. The Marine Corps launched its hand-to-hand training in May 2000, Larsen said. In the Marine Corps Martial Arts Program, Marines earn skill-level belts, tan through black, by completing specific hours of instruction and then successfully demonstrating certain techniques to progress to the next belt color. “They really do have a good program,” Larsen said. “The reason it’s successful is because the commandant of the Marine Corps supports it.” Larsen would take the Army combatives program a step further by requiring soldiers to face each other in regular competitions. “Who do you think trains harder — soldiers or boxers?” he said, explaining that the only way to get soldiers to take the program seriously is to have unit leaders routinely pick soldiers from different squads, platoons or companies and have them duke it out, combatives style. “It doesn’t have to happen very much before everybody realizes that you have to be a fighter

rogue

10-26-2003, 05:40 PM

Thread on military h2h by Matt Larson. (http://www.e-budo.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10166&perpage=15&pagenumber=1)

A sample...
As far as hand-to-hand, the major challenges are motivating soldiers to train and providing a format for technical growth. It has never been the case that the average soldier was a proficient hand-to-hand fighter. The main problem is how to motivate them to train. Lets face it most people do not want to do hard physical training. There is always small minorities who are “into it” but that has historically been the limit. Competitions, both voluntary and mandatory are one way to provide motivation. Providing a technical format is much easier. The hard part is not how to train reasonably proficient fighters quickly however, but to do that and at the same time lay a bio-mechanical, technical, and tactical foundation for growth while doing so. Just as I think the guys at Camp Ritchie would have been flabbergasted if they had been able to see Jerry Barnhart shoot, I think the standard of hand-to-hand can easily be much higher.

Matt Larsen

Hardwork108

11-05-2011, 08:49 AM

This is an interesting Video Clip of Chinese Military Kung Fu applications. The video's title describes this as "Arrest Boxing", but it looks more like "Meet your maker boxing", as some of the techniques look pretty lethal.

Notice that even what is presumably a functionally oriented military force, is using kung fu forms in its training methodology.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuhGa35QYgA&feature=related

.

Northwind

11-05-2011, 10:02 AM

Pretty neat. Thanks for the share.

Hardwork108

11-05-2011, 10:12 AM

Pretty neat. Thanks for the share.

You are welcome, Northwind.

I like the way, the applications from the form are shown in a clear manner.

Northwind

11-05-2011, 10:14 AM

You are welcome, Northwind.

I like the way, the applications from the form are shown in a clear manner.

Agreed and you can see them fairly clearly in the actual form itself too.

SIFU RON

11-05-2011, 10:43 AM

Real nice, thank you.

The Military and the Police are the correct places to find true Martial Arts.

Strong Kung Fu, well performed.

ShaolinDan

11-05-2011, 12:30 PM

It's just forms and compliant partner drills. Obvious Larpers. If the Chinese Military Police are so good, why aren't they winning in the mma? ;)

Indrafist

11-05-2011, 01:32 PM

I was doing that kind of thing in a police uniform 36 years ago. It looked even funnier in those silly big hats we had to wear in the UK police, and funnier still as none of my mates on the job had a clue what I was doing. The advice we were given about street fighting was "Grab his bollocks and hang on till he gives up". I did actually did take that advice and in court the yob in question pointed at me and said "That ******* grabbed me sack!" I'd kicked him in it first, and then grabbed it before running him into the ground. Then I was kicked in the head, my radio and handcuffs were snatched and all hell broke loose. First of many, many times...

Hardwork108

11-05-2011, 02:04 PM

I actually did take that advice and in court the yob in question pointed at me and said "That ******* grabbed me sack!" I'd kicked him in it first, and then grabbed it before running him into the ground. Then I was kicked in the head, my radio and handcuffs were snatched and all hell broke loose. First of many, many times...

A little bit of "meat" softenning is always recommended before a viscious grab - it is kind of like cooking......:D

Indrafist

11-05-2011, 02:40 PM

Just as a point on law enforcement and sport fighting. I totally lacked the motivaton to get involved with competition martial arts, at any time, in my police career - which ran from the ages of 18 to 30. It (sport fighting) is a valid pressure testing medium, but, it isn't the only one. Neither, for that matter (of course) is the police. I didn't however, lack the motivation to test myself across the board. physicall, mentally, emotionally, ethically and morally as a young rookie cop. The point should be, that we should choose our pressure testing environment, and then go at it, according to whatever 'rules' or tolerances operate. The main thing, surely, is to test yourself, and that doesn't have to be athletic competition. If I've learned one thing in the 45 years I've been training, it's that the martial arts don't so much change people, as act as a medium to express who and what they are. If someone has psychopathic tendencies, then it'll likely just amplify them. If they have religious inclinations, then likewise too.
I would never have made a combat sports athlete - whether I'd gone into the police or not. Point is, I was inclined to do just that, and that became where I was tested - at least in my youth. Later, I found other areas of life within which I'd be tested, and I'd be found wanting in those too. The journey was far from over, I was still a work in progress, and this was (and is) reflected in my martial arts today. One last thing, about 'form' etc and real sudden out of the blue fight for your life struggling. I never expected the abstraction of form to translate across point for point (isomorphically) it never ocurred to me that it did or should. A fight breaks everything down (the best laid plains of form and intention) - but - one of the many values of forms training, if you know how, is how to maintain a high standard of structural integrity under extreme pressure. If your 'form' is crap, then it'll collapse under the adrenalin and pain of sudden violence. If its pretty good, then it might just degrade a little less, and give you some time to survive those vital first few seconds, and fight back.

Taixuquan99

11-05-2011, 02:52 PM

Northwind

11-05-2011, 03:22 PM

...
Ever been there? To any of these countries? Know anyone from there? How many Afghans do you know? Speak Pashto? Dari?
...

Makes little difference. I think you know what he's getting at. This was about a Chinese military unit training some very practical kung fu - not about the morals and ethics of various world military units - LIBRARIES could be filled on that sh**, from every time in history to every country in the world. It doesn't in any way shape or form address their tactical training. Sheesh...

MightyB

11-05-2011, 03:31 PM

sanjuro_ronin

11-08-2011, 08:20 AM

Lucas

11-08-2011, 08:37 AM

Haha sr just call out Chinese military! Wtfpwnd

bawang

11-08-2011, 10:04 AM

this is one of those dvd scams trying to sell chinese nerds "elite military kung fu"

i have one called "commando taekwondo"

Fa Xing

11-08-2011, 10:36 AM

this is one of those dvd scams trying to sell chinese nerds "elite military kung fu"

i have one called "commando taekwondo"

It's sad and funny, because it's probably true.

A lot of the guys footwork in those forms were terrible, clearly leaving the groin open and other vital areas you would not see so exposed in a Military training program.

FWIW, it looks pretty.

MightyB

11-08-2011, 02:32 PM

That was pathetic and weak.
FYI: the chinese military and police train the military and poilice version of sanshou, which as we know is a combination of TCMA with MT, western boxing and BJJ.
What this video showed were unrealistic and ineffective techniques to be used in unrealitic situations VS untrained people.
Having seen how the chinese police and military ACTUALLY train, I cna say that THIS is not it,

I'm not sure this is a fair assessment especially when it's compared to other military combatives. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ga4zLsMmkE0&feature=results_main&playnext=1&list=PL431D240309A9E9D9)

David Jamieson

11-08-2011, 02:53 PM

MightyB

11-08-2011, 03:00 PM

H2H?

Police could use it. Military?

the military in 50 years will be ex-gamers flying drones and running robots into villages and wiping them out....

H2H will be unknown to military training by then.

No, because robots will become self aware and take over much sooner than 50 years :eek:

Fa Xing

11-08-2011, 03:05 PM

I'm not sure this is a fair assessment especially when it's compared to other military combatives. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ga4zLsMmkE0&feature=results_main&playnext=1&list=PL431D240309A9E9D9)

First, the video you posted has to do with combat methods from nearly a hundred years ago, and has since evolved. Secondly, I'd rather do the Army's combatives from early 1900's then do what HW108 posted, if I had to make such a silly choice.

Drake

11-08-2011, 03:46 PM

It's sad and funny, because it's probably true.

A lot of the guys footwork in those forms were terrible, clearly leaving the groin open and other vital areas you would not see so exposed in a Military training program.

FWIW, it looks pretty.

I didn't even think it looked pretty.

Apparently, sometimes all you have to do is speak Chinese and do "swoosh-swoosh" moves while wearing a Chinese uniform, against what might as well be a mannequin, and you end up duping all the white folks who love Jackie Chan movies.

I prefer US Army combatives. Introduced to resisting opponents early on, adding slaps early in the game just to show you where you'd get knocked upside the head. They do start with the ground game, but the higher levels are very stand-up intensive.

Fa Xing

11-08-2011, 03:57 PM

I didn't even think it looked pretty.

Apparently, sometimes all you have to do is speak Chinese and do "swoosh-swoosh" moves while wearing a Chinese uniform, against what might as well be a mannequin, and you end up duping all the white folks who love Jackie Chan movies.

I prefer US Army combatives. Introduced to resisting opponents early on, adding slaps early in the game just to show you where you'd get knocked upside the head. They do start with the ground game, but the higher levels are very stand-up intensive.

Sounds good to me, my brother is going into the Army in January, and I'm trying to encourage him to study combatives so that he can show me what he learns.

Lucas

11-08-2011, 04:27 PM

i forget what episode of deadliest warrior but there was an army ranger in that episode and the hand to hand system (forget its name, maybe drake can tell us) they used is 2legit2quit.

Drake

11-08-2011, 04:30 PM

We use a huge mish mash of stuff. It's all lumped into the "Modern Army Combatives" title...

Lucas

11-08-2011, 04:33 PM

i'll need to find that episode on netflix, the ranger gave it some name.

David Jamieson

11-09-2011, 05:53 AM

i'll need to find that episode on netflix, the ranger gave it some name.

Are you talking about the Fairbairn-Sykes methods?

Modern army combatives have a lot of GJJ in the manual, because that's who helped develop the manual. lol

Here's the combatives manual. I think this is in use now since US mil adopted GJJ as their foundation. http://www.selfdefenseresource.com/combatives/articles/combatives-fm-3-25.150.php

Is that wrong Drake?

Frost

11-09-2011, 05:58 AM

its funny but as soon as this cip was posted you could probably say which posters would like it and think it was good, and which would call it something else :)

Drake

11-09-2011, 08:08 AM

its funny but as soon as this cip was posted you could probably say which posters would like it and think it was good, and which would call it something else :)

I felt the same way, but I didin't want to be "that guy" :eek:

Drake

11-09-2011, 08:15 AM

Are you talking about the Fairbairn-Sykes methods?

Modern army combatives have a lot of GJJ in the manual, because that's who helped develop the manual. lol

Here's the combatives manual. I think this is in use now since US mil adopted GJJ as their foundation. http://www.selfdefenseresource.com/combatives/articles/combatives-fm-3-25.150.php

Is that wrong Drake?

Nope, that's true. GJJ had a pretty significant impact on modern combatives.

GeneChing

12-28-2012, 05:37 PM

You read that right. Actually it's sanda, which a lot of westerners fail to categorize as wushu. Nice photo ops at least.

30 wushu masters join PLA Marine Corps (http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/90786/8066488.html)
（China Military Online） 10:04, December 21, 2012

30 newly-recruited members of the Marine Corps under the Navy of the Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLA) became beautiful scenery on their way to Zhanjiang of south China's Guangdong province on the morning of December 19, 2012, because all of them are wushu (Chinese martial arts) masters and some of them were even world champions.

Yan Kangli, 20 years old, was a world Sanshou (free sparring) champion. He was admitted to a wushu school at the age of 16. During the Wushu Sanshou Championship of the 9th Hong Kong Wushu International Championship, he won 6 matches successively against top Sanshou practitioners from 16 countries and was finally awarded the first place of Male 60kg Sanshou.

He Mingjun, 24 years old, was a wushu coach. He was obsessed with military affairs. He won the championship of Male 56kg Sanshou of central China’s Henan province.

Zhu Hongzhen was born into a wushu family. He began to practice wushu after his father when he was five years old. He won many championships in Chinese boxing, swordsmanship and pair exercise, etc.

http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/mediafile/201212/21/F201212211020582601113942.jpg
http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/mediafile/201212/21/F201212211020582394717046.jpg
http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/mediafile/201212/21/F201212211020582685120048.jpg
http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/mediafile/201212/21/F201212211020588625240801.jpg

YouKnowWho

12-28-2012, 06:02 PM

Don't be fooled by those clips. In military, police force, president body guard, ... you won't be able to find any good fighter. A friend of mine is teaching the president body guard in Taiwan. He told me that his students are more interesting in drinking with him than training with him. I taught the police department before. Those cops were so out of shape that I could out run any of them.

GeneChing

01-07-2013, 10:44 AM

Afghan troops using 'Wushu Shaolin' ;)

Physical fitness an important part of Afghan army training (http://www.dvidshub.net/news/100045/physical-fitness-important-part-afghan-army-training#.UOsIwXdh5nk)
Story by Sgt. Aaron RiccaSmall RSS IconSubscriptions Icon Subscribe To This Journalist

PAKTYA PROVINCE, Afghanistan — Despite an icy breeze blowing across a dirt field, Afghan linguists squared off against Afghan National Army soldiers in a season-ending championship game of cricket, an Afghan pastime. A few weeks later, a post-duty day soccer match took place on the same -and recently snow covered- field.

At a gym a few blocks away, a group of about 20 enlisted ANA soldiers take turns practicing jump kicks during a martial arts class, while other troops lift weights and jump rope.

“We encourage soldiers to exercise in different ways according to their interests,” said 203rd Thunder Corps Garrison ANA Sgt. Maj. Sheengul Saadat.

Running, wrestling, weightlifting, soccer and cricket are some of the choices soldiers at the Afghan National Army’s 203rd Thunder Corps Headquarters on Forward Operating Base Thunder, have when it comes to staying in peak mental and physical shape.

“Every Wednesday, we gather our company and platoon sergeants in a meeting for physical training and sports,” Saadat said.

The ANA physical training program at FOB Thunder isn’t as structured or developed as an American fitness program. Depending on the facilities and equipment available to the brigades, PT programs are only as successful as the soldiers who help develop and participate in the activities.

In order to make sure his soldiers are satisfied with the options, Saadat oversees the program and on a daily basis, asks which soldiers are interested in both teaching and participating in a sport.

“I see soldiers who are interested and introduce them to a coach,” Saadat said. “We are helping them 100 percent.”

ANA Master Sgt. Mustafa Mushtaq is the noncommissioned officer in charge of the physical fitness program. He organizes most of the sports while also trying his best to procure uniforms and equipment.

“I have a special interest in sports and I accepted this position,” said Mushtaq, a seven- year ANA veteran, who previously served as a teacher at the Afghan Ministry of Education.

Standards throughout the entire ANA have not been clearly defined, and the regional commands have different stages of implementing and developing routines for their soldiers. Funding for uniforms and equipment has been a challenge. Logistical issues like weather and operational requirements also hinder the effectiveness of the program.

“We can follow nearly half of the standards,” Mushtaq said. “In the future, we will try to follow them 100 percent.”

Like their American counterparts, Afghan troops are required to do what’s necessary to be combat effective and are willing to do whatever it takes to make the best of their situation.

ANA 2nd Lt. Abdul Wahid Janbez, deputy of information officer at the corps communication branch, started teaching Wushu Shaolin, a Chinese martial art more commonly known as Kung Fu, to ANA soldiers four months ago.

“The motive I had to start this class was because it is very useful to our personnel,” he said.

Janbaz has been practicing Wushu for 13 years. He has competed in numerous championship matches, with a large list of achievements under his belts. Due to lack of funding, he paid for uniforms, gloves and punching bags himself.

“We are in extraordinary circumstances,” he said. “Every soldier should be in peak physical shape, regardless if they are in the infantry or in an administrative job.”

His students are appreciative of the effort.

“It prepares us to do our duty 24-hours a day in a proper way,” said ANA Sgt. Hesamuden Sharifi, one of nearly 40 Wushu students. ”It is also very useful for my physical and mental health.”

The 203rd Corps keeps close ties with the Ministry of Defense and the other corps to compare development of different fitness programs around the country.

“These programs are based off of corps leadership,” Mushtag said. “We have communication and we have the same ideas based on the ministries’ plan.”

Every 15 days, Saadat meets with the platoon and company level sergeants and the coaches from various sporting activities to gauge the progress of the Soldiers throughout the program. In some cases, the Soldiers are required to take a diagnostic exam that is supervised by the senior noncommissioned officers and coaches. Test or not, the soldiers are glad they have the opportunities.

“Our soldiers enjoy the sports, especially Wushu,” Saadat said. “When I go to the gym, I can observe the healthy and athletic soldiers. When we give them the duty to accomplish, they do not make any excuses why they can’t do their jobs. To them, health is happiness.”

For the morning PT formations—much like their American counterparts—the ANA soldiers wake up early. One major difference is that the predominantly Muslim ANA troops are allotted time for ablution, the period of washing hands, feet and face before the ten minute prayer time. The morning formation includes a brief preventative health message. Troops are urged to avoid tobacco, alcohol and hashish, one of the more prevalent substances abused by ANA soldiers.

“We always explain to the soldiers in the morning formation to avoid using narcotics,” Saadat said. “Especially hashish.”

Following the formalities is one hour of exercise, about another hour to shower and eat breakfast, and then the workday begins. Later in the afternoon, many of the soldiers return to the gym, soccer field or attend the Wushu class, where they can work out at their own pace.

Soldiers from the brigades outside of corps headquarters do not have the same opportunities for exercise.

“I am living with an infantry kandak (battalion),” said ANA Sgt. Nasratullah Khaksar, regarding the transient nature of his unit. Khaksar is from 1st Kandak, 203rd Thunder Corps and temporarily training at FOB Thunder. “We do not have taekwondo, sport equipment or a recreation room.”

“When we do not have these facilities, it has a bad effect on our personnel,” said 1st Lt. Esmatullah Azizi, 1st Brigade Liaison Officer at the 203rd Thunder Corps Headquarters. “When we have these facilities, soldiers spend time here and away from narcotics.”

The availability of these facilities is a positive asset to the base.

“When the gyms and recreation room opened, nearly 80 percent of the base started coming to these facilities,” Azizi said.

At the end of the duty day, troops fall back to a recreation room to play foosball, snooker and Ping-Pong. The hall is a place for everyone to let loose, chat, and clear their heads of the days tasks.

“In our free time, we come to the recreation room to keep our minds normal while we are away from our families,” said Khaksar. “We are putting our minds at comfort here.”

pateticorecords

01-08-2013, 10:46 AM

First, the video you posted has to do with combat methods from nearly a hundred years ago, and has since evolved. Secondly, I'd rather do the Army's combatives from early 1900's then do what HW108 posted, if I had to make such a silly choice.

Like this one? U.S. Army's Basic Hand To Hand Fighting of World War 1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ga4zLsMmkE0

Combat: "Kill Or Be Killed" 1943 War Department World War II US Army Training
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4_VqgqBk7E

Because it looks pretty similar if you ask me...lol

-N-

01-09-2013, 07:36 PM

My nephew did some boxing training at Air Force Academy. It was stripped down compared to his kungfu training.

He was trained to attack from any position and used left lead and right lead interchangeably. But they wouldn't let him do that when he boxed. Only left lead. Also didn't allow simultaneous parry and attack. Only coverup, then attack.

People telegraphed like crazy too.

mawali

01-09-2013, 09:04 PM

The Marine Corps Martial Arts Program is an attempt to codify pervious learnings from applicable systems into a cohesive body of knowledge.

WARNING
Keep in mind that Marines DO NOT LEARN this and then go out weaponless onto the battlefield. It is one part of all round training +PFT and general conditioning.

MightyB

01-10-2013, 07:34 AM

Afghan troops using 'Wushu Shaolin' ;)

This doesn't surprise me at all. Remember Ehsan Shafiq (https://www.youtube.com/user/EhsanShafiq?feature=watch)? The Afghan Shaolin fighter.

David Jamieson

01-10-2013, 07:49 AM

Raipizo

01-10-2013, 11:00 AM

Is that Carl Winslow? :p

GeneChing

01-11-2013, 05:51 PM

I had to c&p all of these. They are too precious. ;)

Wushu masters' life in PLA Marine Corps (http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/753791.shtml)
peopledaily.com.cn | 2013-1-5 16:21:43
By Agencies

http://www.globaltimes.cn/Portals/0/attachment/2011/139174ed-0db2-4105-9bef-6b3725ccf539.jpg
http://www.globaltimes.cn/Portals/0/attachment/2011/2e497b87-ab60-4b27-8d64-c3b049ae71ca.jpg
http://www.globaltimes.cn/Portals/0/attachment/2011/5cf64e06-4517-4c3d-a749-297cca57b28b.jpg
http://www.globaltimes.cn/Portals/0/attachment/2011/5f97dc56-cce1-4628-8ecc-c0ff5b89c724.jpg
http://www.globaltimes.cn/Portals/0/attachment/2011/bf5b2d78-e89f-40bd-a19a-f94cb0ab3e8f.jpg
http://www.globaltimes.cn/Portals/0/attachment/2011/87640a5b-765d-4562-9678-2709a13ae140.jpg

The photo shows the life of 30 Wushu masters in barrack as the newly-recruited members of the Marine Corps under the Navy of the Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLA). Photo: navy.81.cn

Love that drunken style!

Syn7

01-11-2013, 08:10 PM

Now here's a cop that could use some kung fu training...or a treadmill...or to just lay off the donuts for a year.

http://suradiolive.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/fat_cops_09-300x300.jpg

sadly...I can find dozens of examples of this sort of fitness level in western police organizations.

standards are important.

That guy would be so screwed in a real fight or any sort of endurance situation. A foot chase is just out of the question.

This is unacceptable in ANY able bodied human. If it's an injury, you have some excuse. But most are injured cause they are fat and outta shape, not the other way around. We should not reward this with blanket acceptance. It's wrong and it hurts the species as a whole.

Yes I said it. Obese people with no reasonable excuse are weakening the species. Even if you can move well now. You are ****ed later. And then you pass that **** on yo your kids genetically and behaviourally. It's weak and sad. Not to say I am mean to obese people. I just really don't approve. Not that they really care. If they don't care enough to help themselves, then why care what anyone else thinks about it.

Kellen Bassette

01-11-2013, 09:27 PM

This doesn't surprise me at all. Remember Ehsan Shafiq (https://www.youtube.com/user/EhsanShafiq?feature=watch)? The Afghan Shaolin fighter.

I like that guy...he's not afraid to throw some cool moves in a fight. You can say what you want about the opponents he fought, but he was doing full contact in places where there probably wasn't a lot of people doing it, at times when there probably wasn't a lot of options for it.

Syn7

01-12-2013, 12:08 AM

We use a huge mish mash of stuff. It's all lumped into the "Modern Army Combatives" title...

I've seen a lot of great military combatives. I've seen a few I question tho. Remember Defendu. Some of that stuff was ridiculous.

mawali

01-12-2013, 09:46 AM

Afghan troops using 'Wushu Shaolin' ;)
There is a wrestling tradition among the Uzbek and Hazara and some Tajik groups. I observed a few of them play wrestling while on lunch break doing crossing gusrad duty in Afghanistan. Even the Turks have a strong traditional game with the other steppe peoples.

bawang

01-13-2013, 08:57 PM

theres no such thing as military kung fu. ALL kung fu came from the military.

GeneChing

01-14-2013, 11:17 AM

theres no such thing as military kung fu. ALL kung fu came from the military.
That's the same as saying 'theres no such thing as chicken and egg. ALL chicken came from the egg.' And all kung fu didn't come from military origins. In fact, kung fu has the least military influence of almost any major Asian martial art. IMO, the most interesting kung fu is coming out of the folk styles.

BTW, been meaning to link this archived thread to here: Chinese Military Kung Fu Sets (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23789)

David Jamieson

01-14-2013, 12:10 PM

theres no such thing as military kung fu. ALL kung fu came from the military.

Hmmmn.

Kung Fu is spawned by the necessity of universal reality.
It is a requirement here in this world to be a complete being.

Kung Fu is not just fighting but cultivating an aware being.
If you want to just fight, that's fine, but it is only one aspect of Kung Fu overall.

FWIW, there were people outside of military organizations that organized defensive fighting and offensive fighting training and techniques that were later adopted by the military. For instance, Karate. adopted by the US air force in 1954! :p

Song dynasty seems to have a lot of records of non military kung fu being practiced around China.

Syn7

01-14-2013, 06:53 PM

Yeah, I believe that many styles came about by intelligent people that had a need for exercise and/or defense. Living in the boons means having to fend for yourself sometimes. It's just common sense that individuals and local civilian village militias would create their own styles. Some based on earlier style that may or may not have military origins and some pretty much made up. Trial and error.

I also believe that some styles would have been created in direct response to military aggression to civilian populations.

bawang

01-14-2013, 07:14 PM

That's the same as saying 'theres no such thing as chicken and egg. ALL chicken came from the egg.' And all kung fu didn't come from military origins. In fact, kung fu has the least military influence of almost any major Asian martial art. IMO, the most interesting kung fu is coming out of the folk styles.

BTW, been meaning to link this archived thread to here: Chinese Military Kung Fu Sets (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23789)
ALL chickens came from the egg.

I also believe that some styles would have been created in direct response to military aggression to civilian populations.

the ancient chinese military spawned the militia system. over time the militia styles became the folk styles. every few decades during war the military strips the fancy parts away from the folk styles to train for combat again.

over time northern kung fu forms have become modular. fancy movements are marked in teachings and manuals, and degree of exaggeration is separated into big and small frames.

mawali

01-14-2013, 08:43 PM

I am aware that what is known, per the nomenclature of 'Chinese military kungfu' is gleamed from bajiquan, shuaijiao and hsingi (hsingyi). It follows the same progression of US Military Combatives, where select training elements (grappling) coupled with striking, BJJ inclusion and jujitsu, form the syntheses of these arts.
Each man bring his own level of experience and conditioning to the programme.

Since I am more familiar with MCMAP (Marine Corps Martial Arts Program) I will add the below: When I was in, it was not as 'standarzided as it is now. There are even belt levels for levels of proficiency!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOunJJm-0vc

This is soemwhat theatrical, at least for me) but it gives basic stuff
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOedpqdj0gI

HumanWeapon Segment

GeneChing

05-08-2013, 09:36 AM

It's BBotswana Defense Force training in Chinese Kung Fu.

Kung-Fu replaces guns at BDF (http://www.mmegi.bw/index.php?sid=1&aid=1088&dir=2013/May/Monday6)
Monkagedi Gaotlhobogwe
Staff writer

The Botswana Defense Force(BDF) seems to have learnt a bitter lesson during the brutal shooting of John Kalafatis in 2009.

http://www.mmegi.bw/2013/May/Monday6/php37.tmp.jpg

That blunder may never happen again when the BDF finds themselves having to use guns. They have turned to the Chinese army to teach them marshal arts tricks so that when duty calls they would rather over power their victims with Bruce Lee and Jackie Chan and Drunken Master tricks than face the fury of the public for using guns on unarmed civilians.

So instead of multiple bullets that shocked the nation during the Kalafatis scandal, in the near future victims of the Police and BDF operations may be nursing blue eyes, broken arms, or bleeding noses and broken teeth, all thanks to the agility of the nunchakus, kicks and punches from our kunfu masters at the army.If the pictures from the BDF are anything to go by, even without guns, the BDF men could just be as effective. In one of their pictures taken at a training session and used in the army magazine, national karate champion Ofentse Bakwadi, now a captain in the army, is shown teaching tricks that include leaving the victim sprawled on the ground and helpless. The BDF is now busy establishing a new unit for instances such as these when they will have to face a situation similar to the John kalafatis one. The Monitor can reveal that through the BDF's Directorate of Sports Administration, the army is busy establishing an unarmed combat training team made up of martial arts instructors. The instructors were sent to training in China to impart their knowledge to other members of the BDF.

The aim is to train all soldiers, including recruit privates and officer cadets during their basic military training
Since President Ian Khama took over one of his initiatives has been to cause the army and the Police to collaborate in crime fighting missions, such as patrols, resulting in regular joint operations by the two institutions.

The Director of Sports Administration at the BDF major Montwedi simon is quoted in the army newsletter, In & Around, saying BDF officers and men may find themselves in situations where the use of weapons would amount to excessive force hence the need to use unarmed combat.

He said that is usually possible during Joint law Enforcement operations with other national security organs such as the Police. Major Simon says the use of guns could be perceived as excessive when victims are unarmed.

GeneChing

02-24-2014, 09:40 AM

They probably just realized that it doesn't work in the cage. :p

Military brigade cuts down on kung fu (http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/844491.shtml#.Uwt1kIWaKsI)
Global Times | 2014-2-24 22:58:01
By Fang Yang

A military brigade in Beijing has scaled back traditional "kung fu" training methods, which have been criticized as being of little practical value, the People's Liberation Army (PLA) Daily reported on Monday.

The special warfare brigade in Beijing cancelled over 10 classic training courses which include physical activities such as breaking bricks with heads, splitting sticks with people's backs and pushing vehicles with steel bars pressed against one's throat. The training methods are similar to the popular shows by Shaolin Temple monks that are often seen on their international tours.

Those subjects involve traditional Chinese qigong practices and are among the regular training methods for reconnaissance troops in China and often serve as a selling point at evaluation "performances" of special troops, according to military insiders.

In recent years, the Beijing brigade has won high praise for its spectacular skills in these training courses, the PLA Daily reported.

"But real combat is not a performance, and the training subjects must be designed based on the demands in a real fight," Zhang Aijun, the brigade commander told the PLA Daily.

The brigade has suspended organized training session for these subjects, but allows soldiers to practice them as a hobby, according to the PLA Daily.

"These practices that involve qigong movements can enhance fitness and health, and can enhance one's ability to handle impacts," Liang Jianfeng, the headmaster of a Beijing-based martial arts school, told the Global Times.

However, it will take a lot of time and energy to practice these skills, which can be risky at times, Liang said, adding that it requires constant exercises to maintain the ability.

"In actual combat, those skills are not really practical," Liang added.

Zhao Yongheng, a soldier from the brigade who used to be skilled in those exercises, told the PLA Daily that he felt relieved to be able to put more effort into other training subjects that are more helpful in combat.

"It has been a long tradition for scouts to take these special training projects," a soldier based in Daqing, Heilongjiang Province, told the Global Times.

The soldier, surnamed Wang, was a military school student majoring in reconnaissance. He said he believes that while those practices help improve one's physical strength, they also help with military morale.

The show of soldiers accomplishing those incredible feats gives an impression of strong force, and that's what sets them apart from others, Wang said.

"Those performances sometimes are used as an internal and external morale campaign of our military force," Wang said, adding that some troops have put many resources into training since they require professional guidance and experience to avoid injuries.

The emphasis on practical combat training began after President Xi Jinping called for all military training to focus on raising real combat capability during an inspection tour of the Beijing Military Region in July 2013.

GeneChing

01-13-2015, 11:18 AM

I'm tempted to poach this for a new thread on Chinese Military Qigong in the Qigong section. :confused:

Kung fu stunts get the chop at PLA Navy unit (http://www.scmp.com/news/china/article/1679407/kung-fu-stunts-get-chop-pla-navy-unit)
The show seems to be over for displays of martial arts might in China's marine corps
PUBLISHED : Wednesday, 14 January, 2015, 12:22am
UPDATED : Wednesday, 14 January, 2015, 12:23am

Minnie Chan minnie.chan@scmp.com

http://www.scmp.com/sites/default/files/styles/486x302/public/2015/01/13/789a2b846b894bc2303176a9e0162361.jpg?itok=aEmtKAKD
Militia practise a motorcycle stunt during training in Taiyuan, Shanxi province. Photo: Reuters

They were a smashing success but the days of People's Liberation Army soldiers chopping tiles and timber blocks barehanded in stunts put on during leaders' inspections and open days appear to be numbered.

Training for the shows will no longer count towards some soldiers' performance reviews, according to a mainland report.

The PLA Daily said yesterday that Communist Party leaders in the navy's marine corps had decided to scrap training in a dozen stunt areas - including various forms of kung fu and team motorcycle riding - replacing them with other activities such as live-fire drills.

The military mouthpiece said the decision was welcomed by the troops.

"[I am] finally released," the daily quoted marine Wang Xiaohui as saying.

Wang was a kung fu exponent before he joined the military, specialising in breaking planks with his head, the paper said.

But his military training had suffered because he had spent most of his time in the marines training to do stunts for shows.

The report said marines would now spend more time working on long-range sniper firing, helicopter drills, base jumping, machine-gun training and other high-risk activities.

It said some of the more dangerous exercises had been cancelled in previous years because of the high number of casualties but those activities had since resumed.

Professor Arthur Ding Shu-fan, from the Taipei-based Chinese Council of Advanced Policy Studies, said the change would probably be rolled out across all military divisions.

"The new measures will help turn the PLA into a normal battle force," Ding said.

"The stunts might look quite cool but they are outdated in terms of today's modern warfare."

The report comes just days after President Xi Jinping, who is also the chairman of the Central Military Commission, ordered combat officers and those in charge of political training at the grass-roots level to swap posts to improve both fighting capability and political loyalty to the Communist Party.

This article appeared in the South China Morning Post print edition as Kung fu stunts get the chop atPLA navy unit

SteveLau

01-17-2015, 12:50 AM

I have heard comment on military unarmed combat skill - "it is not martial art, it is method to kill." From the video clip mentioned in the first post of this thread, what is shown in the clip largely supports the comment. The techniques used by the demonstrator are very effective. They aim at the vulnerabilities of the human body, like our elbow joints, waist, throat, etc.

MarathonTmatt

01-19-2015, 09:31 AM

I learned the larger part of a police/ military form a couple years back during a 1 day workshop w/ retired coach/ military trainer Master Gu Xin Fa.

The 1st thing about this form is that you immediately put your hands on guard and assume a sanda/sanshou stance. This is followed by basically different variations of jab/ reverse, hook & uppercut punches, roundhouse and heel kicks, takedowns, intercepts and qin na techniques. Not overly- difficult to learn, more "bare bones" and immediately to the point than most kung fu styles, although alot of the qinna he showed us I already learned in my longfist class- some different variations, though, especially some of the takedowns. IMO it compliments my longfist, tai chi, etc. training well.

I like what I was taught and alot of times when I train @ home I will run this form drill up and down a few times after stance work and drilling isolated techniques.

GeneChing

01-26-2015, 09:44 AM

NOTE: I wrote an article that was relevant to this thread last year: When Qigong Goes to War JUL+AUG 2014 (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=1163)

PLAN calls off kung fu stunt shows (http://english.chinamil.com.cn/news-channels/china-military-news/2015-01/15/content_6310551.htm)

(Source: China Military Online) 2015-01-15

http://i2.chinamil.com.cn/i2/china-military-news/attachement/jpg/site2/20150115/001fd0499bbd1621cc6404.jpg
Special operation soldier is climbing the building with bare hands.

　　HONG KONG, January 15 (ChinaMil) -- "Break bricks with a bare hand", "Break a wood rod with body"... these are all the cool stunts of soldiers of the Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLA), according to the report by the Hong Kong's South China Morning Post on January 14, 2015. However, their appearance on the open days of the military barracks and during the inspections of the leaders can be numbered now.

　　It is reported that such performance subjects will no longer be included in the appraisal on soldiers.

　　The PLA Daily reported that the Party committee of a marine brigade of the PLA Navy has decided to exclude a dozen of such subjects which are pleasant to the eyes but of no use from the training program, including various kung fu stunts and group motorcycle stunts, and replace them with daily training subjects such as live-ammunition shooting subject.

　　The decision is welcomed by the officers and men.

　　"I am finally liberated now," the report quoted Wang Xiaohui, member of the Marine Corps of the PLA Navy. Wang practised hard Qigong before joining the military, and showed his stunt "Break a wood board with head" many times after joining the military.

　　However, he was not performing well enough in some military training subjects, because he spent most of the training time on practising his stunts.

　　Now the brigade will spend more time on long-distance sniping, helicopter training, low-altitude bailout, machine gun shooting and other high-risk training subjects. Some subjects that were once removed from the training ground due to safety accidents have also returned to the training ground.

　　Ding Shufan, director of the Research Center of International Relations of Taiwan's National Chengchi University (NCCU), said this change will probably be promoted to all the troops of the PLA. "The new measure will help the PLA develop into a standard combat force. The kung fu stunts may look cool, but they are already outdated in modern wars today."

　　Chinese President Xi Jinping urged the military to arrange the job rotation of military and political principal officers at grassroots units just a few days ago in order to enhance the Chinese military's combat capability and its political loyalty to the Communist Party of China. I'm not sure this image falls under Kung Fu stunts. Wall-climbing seems like a practical military skill to me.

GeneChing

03-25-2015, 09:40 AM

This would be more convincing if the lead shot wasn't TKD. :rolleyes:

But still, the vid is amusing.

http://api.theweek.com/sites/default/files/styles/tw_image_9_4/public/52051878.jpg?itok=bZadaoe4&resize=1260x560

FEATURE
China's army is giving up kung fu (http://theweek.com/articles/546034/chinas-army-giving-kung-fu)
FROM Matthew Gault
(China Photos/Getty Images)
March 25, 2015

Militaries around the world love hamming it up. The United States has military marching bands. Russia's Red Army Choir delights the Internet. And China's People's Liberation Army performs elaborate martial arts stunts.

It's certainly dramatic. The soldiers break boards with their heads and fists, throw needles through glass and even smash bricks onto their heads. But Beijing is gradually bringing the kung fu displays to an end.

Chinese military media outlet PLA Daily reported on Jan. 15 that one naval marine brigade will no longer focus on martial arts. The announcement is part of a broader trend in the PLA to modernize and cut back on ridiculous showboating.

The Chinese military has long given kung fu demonstrations. When a foreign dignitary visits, or a party official comes to inspect the troops, soldiers perform feats of martial prowess worthy of any low-budget '80s action movie.

In addition to breaking boards and smashing bricks, the demonstrations include no-joke motorcycle stunts, which involve changing the tire of a side-car while speeding down a track at 70 miles per hour.

It's all very impressive, but totally impractical for an actual shooting war. Which is why a political committee for the marine brigade decided earlier this month to no longer require soldiers take part in such events.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=no4cr4kujNE

"I am finally liberated now," marine Wang Xiaohui told the PLA Daily. According to the report, Wang was a martial artist before he joined the military.

He spent a lot of his time in the marines showing off his ability to break a board with his head. He spent so much time working on stunts that he didn't learn other basic military duties.

Now the marine and his fellow troops will have more time to focus on less theatrical but far more practical exercises. What are they? Long-range sniping, live-fire training, and low-altitude parachuting.

The PLA Daily is a mouthpiece for the Chinese military, so it's hard to suss out fact from fiction. But if true, the report points to a broader trend in the PLA to scale back on entertainment in favor of more realistic, modern tactics.

http://api.theweek.com/sites/default/files/styles/large/public/32415wib3.jpeg?itok=IC4XM2yi
(AP Photo/Andy Wong)

A special operations brigade toned down its martial arts demonstrations in 2014. "Going to war isn't a performance," brigade commander Zang Aijun said.

The same year, the South China Morning Post reported that the Chinese military was phasing out most of its entertainment soldiers.

The PLA once maintained 30 troupes of 10,000 entertainers. These soldiers were acrobats, singers, and dancers. The troupes raised morale and spread the message of the PLA.

But critics saw corruption seeping into the troupes. A politically-connected singer could join the military, perform for a few years, and retire in comfort and safety.

It's a desirable career, and a potential path to fame. Chinese Pres. Xi Jinping's wife holds the ranks of major general in a military entertainment troupe.

Too much levity can be a liability. The Chinese military is huge, but also a paper tiger. Beijing has too few allies, too much outdated equipment, and its officer corps has serious problems with graft and alcoholism.

China has steadily increased defense spending in a bid to modernize its armed forces, but spending alone won't solve its problems. To do that, China has to do something about corruption, and divert resources away from frivolity.

"The new measure will help the PLA develop into a standard combat force," Ding Shufan, a professor at Taiwan's National Chengchi University, told the PLA Daily. "The kung fu stunts may look cool, but they are already outdated in modern wars today."

mickey

03-26-2015, 10:06 AM

Greetings,

Basically, the new stance suggests that Shaolin is OUT!!!

mickey

David Jamieson

03-26-2015, 10:11 AM

I think it's cute that militaries still do H2H publicity stuff when most soldiers in conflict never see their opponent these days (except on a flir screen or through a sight from 1000m away if they're a sniper.)

H2H is quite...well, not exactly your primary skills on a battlefield anymore.

GeneChing

09-04-2015, 09:44 AM

https://vimeo.com/138280610

Beijing's Hour-long Military Parade in a Minute
from Max Duncan Plus 9 hours ago / via Final Cut Pro Not Yet Rated

To mark the 70th anniversary of victory over Japan in WWII, China held a massive military parade past Tiananmen Square with 12,000 troops, 500 pieces of military hardware and 200 aircraft. In preparation, authorities kept the air clean by shutting down thousands of factories, taking half the cars off the roads, and removing birds from trees. They even seemingly dispersed clouds. On the day, they shut down the centre of the city, closed the country's largest airport and part of the subway, and told people not to look out of their windows. After all that, the parade itself was over in the flash of an eye, but the goal was to leave a more lasting impression: that the Party is indisputably, and permanently, in charge. For those who would rather the whole thing lasted 60 seconds, here's a little video I produced for the Wall Street Journal

i like the military balloons :)

GeneChing

09-22-2015, 02:53 PM

Sort of random, but a nice pic.

Girls do leg workouts during military training break (http://en.people.cn/n/2015/0921/c98649-8952954.html)
By Ruiqi Zhang (People's Daily Online) 15:32, September 21, 2015

http://en.people.cn/NMediaFile/2015/0921/FOREIGN201509211536000162707778730.jpg
Girls do leg workouts during military training break

On Sept. 16, a group of girls from the Department of Dance practice basic dancing skills on the playground of Shandong Normal University. College freshmen in China have military training when a semester begins. (iqilu/Zhang Wei)

GeneChing

03-15-2016, 10:32 AM

Old habits die hard. ;)

These Chinese soldiers toughen up by smashing concrete blocks with their heads (http://mashable.com/2016/03/15/chinese-soldiers-smash-bricks-with-heads/#Yme13QnPJgqT)
BY ALICIA TAN
8 hours ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wDWubVe0FM

No one said being in the army was an easy feat, but this demonstration by a group of soldiers in China certainly brings hardcore to the next level.

This video circulating on Weibo shows a bunch of young Chinese soldiers breaking concrete blocks and porcelain bowls with their bare hands and heads.

Some even let their colleagues smash concrete slabs on their chests with sledgehammers.

We're not sure how these skills will measure up against real guns, but we can't deny that this Shaolin-style Spartan training is impressive.

mickey

03-17-2016, 10:11 AM

Greetings,

That was one of the better demos of Iron Body that I have seen. The challenge is whether they can continue to do that when they are 80.

mickey

Jimbo

03-18-2016, 10:03 AM

Greetings,

That was one of the better demos of Iron Body that I have seen. The challenge is whether they can continue to do that when they are 80.

mickey

Doubtful. Even most people who train MA seriously and become good at it, end up quitting by middle age.

SteveLau

03-19-2016, 12:23 AM

To me, such people mostly end up quitting by the age 70+. I expect myself to continue training till the end. :)

Regards,

KC
Hong Kong

mickey

03-19-2016, 07:04 AM

Greetings Jimbo and SteveLau

Doubtful. Even most people who train MA seriously and become good at it, end up quitting by middle age.

Longevity in the arts may be directly correlated to the reason why people train it in the first place. If it is just fighting, there is only so far you can take it. If the arts are approached for health reasons or for spiritual reasons, the person may keep up with it for a longer period of time, if not for a lifetime.

mickey

Jimbo

03-19-2016, 09:56 AM

mickey,

I both agree and disagree.

I've seen people come and go out of MA (not just switching styles, but quitting cold turkey) for all kinds of reasons. Not only those who emphasized fighting. Many people get into KF and become almost obsessive about it; researching KF history, qigong, ultra-healthy diet, outside practice, wearing their KF shirts everywhere, talking about everything KF-related. Many of these are mostly into the "artistic" or "lifestyle" aspects of KF, and even show some natural talent for it. Then, after progressing quickly, usually within a couple years or so, their interest wanes and they have other interests/obligations. Then they just stop, usually very suddenly. Occasionally one will drift back a couple years later and try it again, but whereas before they were enthusiastic, confident and could move well, now they appear sullen, withdrawn, and have often lost all coordination at KF. Then they disappear for good.

Ironically, I find that most of the people I know who are devoted lifelong practitioners are those who were motivated by and emphasized the 'fighting' or application aspects earlier on. They didn't do ONLY fighting, but learning how to apply the art was their main focus. Along the way, they'd also had an interest in other aspects as well, and now their personal focus can alternate or shift.

At least, these have been some of my observations.

mickey

03-19-2016, 10:57 AM

Hi Jimbo,

I agree.

mickey

David Jamieson

03-21-2016, 08:19 AM

Those poor people think H2H is a factor on a modern battlefield...
Boy, I hate to say but are they ever in for a surprise! :p

Cataphract

03-21-2016, 11:44 AM

The Russians taught their troops the upward forearm block against knife attacks by Mujahideen. With more and more asymmetric warfare in our world training some H2H doesn't seem such a silly idea.

GeneChing

03-24-2016, 09:11 AM

Wednesday, 23 March 2016
Henan's Military Police Learn Chen Taijiquan (http://chentaijiquanworld.blogspot.co.uk/2016/03/henans-military-police-learn-chen.html?m=1)

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-50mfJ2JJADU/VvMH0wBTpEI/AAAAAAAABuE/3loth3mUnE4ck0KhqNVOxYvMEfPwGgrnA/s280/mpblog1.JPG
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-WciYrdIKQNk/VvMIFE0IY7I/AAAAAAAABuY/C95XdRkI478DolPETJpvpbWEz3oJ-yO5g/s280/mpblog3.JPG

China's official military police website recently highlighted the introduction of Chen Taijiquan into the training programme of its officers. The idea behind its introduction is to transmit traditional culture, improve officers physical constitutions and to enrich their cultural awareness and life style when they are not on operational duty. In the time-honoured Chinese way, the movement is encapsulated in a slogan: "Learn Taiji, strengthen the body and spirit, quieten the heart and nurture the body".

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-f_OO7TijPpg/VvMILyb3TAI/AAAAAAAABuY/G1qG9ZJkfqcNum-htvnQT0ngjQExxer7g/s280/mpblog5.JPG

To get the project up and running, Henan province's military police approached Henan's Chen Style Taijiquan Association and invited Zheng Dongxia to teach them Taijiquan. Zheng Dongxia is a disciple of Chenjiagou Taijiquan grandmaster Chen Zhenglei and daughter of Zheng Guorui one of his senior disciples from the early days. I visited Zheng Guorui's school in Wenxian back in 1997 when his daughter was about sixteen years old and already a competent coach, barking commands at the young students under her charge. Fast forward a couple of decades and it is now the military police being put through their paces.

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-0Cz6UH1LSkw/VvML24hnvgI/AAAAAAAABuc/usN30-YmTfQVRMHCkyK3IcRQRmBk3lBcQ/s280/mpblog6.jpg
1997 visiting Zheng Guorui's Henan Wenxian Taiji Shaolin Wushu School.

David Gaffney at 14:45

quieten the heart? :rolleyes:

GeneChing

07-14-2016, 12:22 PM

Just can't resist this. We've all had this student... :rolleyes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UROPgnjfdB0

GeneChing

10-25-2016, 09:38 AM

Relationships
https://thenanfang.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/military-speed-dating-01.jpg

Blind Dating, Chinese Military-Style (https://thenanfang.com/mass-blind-date-chinese-soldiers/)
Meet hundreds of lonely singles living in your area now
Charles Liu Charles Liu, October 25, 2016 10:47am

https://thenanfang.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/military-speed-dating-04.jpg

Cutbacks haven’t fully diminished the size of China’s military, and neither has it decreased its demand for wives.

This was proven in a mass dating event in Wuhan, Hebei last Saturday. The annual event, now in its tenth year, paired 200 soldiers from the air division of the People’s Liberation Army with some 200 single women. All participants shared a lunch together at a long, tiny table and then later played games and sang songs to help them break the ice.

Despite China’s notorious gender imbalance, the number of women interested in attending the mass dating event outnumbered the men. An initial group of 500 women were whitled down to 200, mostly white collar workers and teachers from local schools. In fact, the single soldiers were so in demand that some women attending the event had to settle for having lunch with other women who couldn’t find a partner.

Last year’s event resulted in ten couples tying the knot, which was performed at this year’s event that also featured a performance by military personnel. The event is responsible for around a hundred such weddings over the years.

Mass weddings are common in China, and are often performed by people in the same field such as the military, police, or construction. Events such as the opening of a tunnel or a railway line are sometimes marked by such mass weddings.

https://thenanfang.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/military-speed-dating-06.jpg
https://thenanfang.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/military-speed-dating-10.jpg
https://thenanfang.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/military-speed-dating-02.jpg
https://thenanfang.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/military-speed-dating-08.jpg
https://thenanfang.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/military-speed-dating-09.jpg
https://thenanfang.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/military-speed-dating-11.jpg

Source: People's Daily, iFeng News Client, iFeng News Client
Photos: People's Daily, iFeng News Client, iFeng News Client

Mass weddings are weird to me.

David Jamieson

10-25-2016, 10:41 AM

Mass weddings are weird to me.

Yeah... me too.

GeneChing

12-13-2016, 09:12 AM

Wushu warriors from ARC help in keeping the Army fighting fit (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Wushu-warriors-from-ARC-help-in-keeping-the-Army-fighting-fit/articleshow/55529882.cms)

Jayanta Gupta | TNN | Nov 20, 2016, 10.38 PM IST

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com//thumb/msid-55529858,width-400,resizemode-4/55529858.jpg

SHILLONG: They may be eyeball to eyeball with the People's Liberation Army (PLA) along the Line of Actual Control (LAC) but all things Chinese aren't unacceptable for the Indian Army.
Over the last 13 years, the Assam Regimental Centre (ARC) in Happy Valley, Shillong, has turned into the Wushu node for the Indian Army. Wushu is a Chinese martial art form and the Assam Regiment has taken it upon itself to train soldiers from other regiments in this sport that requires extreme skill and fitness.
"It is apt that Wushu is taught here to personnel of the Army. Apart from Wushu, the ARC is also the Karate node of the Indian Army. The boys in the regiment are great sportsmen and have earned laurels in national as well as international events," said Lt Gen Subrata Saha, deputy chief of the Army staff and colonel of the regiment.
Wushu is a combination of Kung-Fu, a martial art form that originated in China, and gymnastics. Wushu has two separate forms - Taolu and Sanda. Taolu is one where competitors display various routines that are with and without arms. Sanda is the combat component and sees the participants take part in competitions of free-fighting. According to another officer, this form of martial art helps in keeping troops fit and aids in concentration and discipline.
"Wushu training emphasizes on quickness, explosive power, and natural, relaxed movement. The Wushu practitioner must combine flexibility with strength, speed with flawless technique and fierce intent with effortless execution. This is why a soldier can pick up the martial art faster as he is already fit. The Wushu Association of India came into being in 1989 but in 2003, Capt M Amit Kumar was the sole representative from the Army and Services at the 12th National Wushu Chamionship held at Chennai. After winning gold in the Taolu event, he was instrumental in setting up the Wushu Node at ARC, Shillong. Since then, soldiers who received training here have won medals in national and international events," the officer added.
India has shown promise in Wushu at the international level. At the ninth Asian Wushu Championship held in Taiwan in September this year, Indian participants bagged nine medals. This was a marked improvement over the 2012 edition of the championship. Though Wushu missed its date with the 2020 Tokyo Olympics, efforts are on to include it in the 2024 Games. Officers believe that the sport will certainly gain in India with the Army showing interest.

Amusing...;)

GeneChing

10-03-2017, 07:56 AM

Pushing it too far? Chinese teenage boys are forced to do press-ups over their female classmates during military training (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/china/article-4933622/Video-shows-boys-forced-sexual-exercises.html)
The exercise was filmed in China as part of military education activities
Video reveals teenage boys in a push-up position above the girls
Footage shows that the young people are ashamed of their actions
By CLAIRE HEFFRON FOR MAILONLINE
PUBLISHED: 10:51 EDT, 29 September 2017 | UPDATED: 11:14 EDT, 29 September 2017

A peculiar video shows teenage boys in military uniforms being forced to do press-ups with girls lying beneath them.

The training exercise was filmed in China and is thought to be part of a school programme of quasi-military education.

Chinese media did not report whether the exercises were part of the mainstream curriculum or an extra-curricular club.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/09/29/15/44DAC57000000578-4933622-Army_moves_The_exercise_was_filmed_in_China_and_th ought_to_be_pa-m-29_1506694944929.jpghttp://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/09/29/15/44DAC55C00000578-4933622-Provocative_Video_shows_a_row_of_boys_in_the_press _up_position_w-a-30_1506694959861.jpg
Army moves: The exercise was filmed in China and thought to be part of military lessons (left) Video shows a row of boys in the press-up position with a girl lying under him (right)

The footage shows a row of teenage boys are seen in the press-up position, each with a girl lying face-up under him.

As an instructor shouts 'One! Two!' the boys lower themselves down onto the girls and then push themselves up for a second time.

The movement is clearly intended to suggest a sexual position.

The girls look as if they are ashamed of their position and hide their faces with their hands.

Some of the boys appear to be equally embarrassed about the situation and turn their heads away as they lower themselves down.

One unnamed parent raged to Chinese media: 'How can students be taught in such an improper way!'

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/09/29/15/44DC3FE100000578-4933622-The_exact_ages_of_the_Chinese_teenagers_doing_the_ workouts_were_-m-44_1506696716875.jpghttp://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/09/29/15/44DC3FED00000578-4933622-image-a-45_1506696723547.jpg
The exact ages of the Chinese teenagers doing the workouts were not reported but they look no older than 16 (left) Some of the boys appear to be embarrassed about the situation and turn their heads away as they lower themselves down (right)

The exact ages of the teenagers doing the workouts were not reported but they look no older than 16 and possibly younger.

Press-ups, previously called floor dips, are commonly used as a strengthening exercise in military and martial arts contexts but also as punishments in those conditions.

Chinese Military Kung Fu (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?62291-Chinese-Military-Kung-Fu) meets I will never understand China (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?62318-I-will-never-understand-China)

GeneChing

01-04-2019, 10:56 AM

I'm going to start a Military Tai Chi practice (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?71147-Military-Tai-Chi-practice) thread based on this, although I doubt it'll go as far as our Chinese Military Kung Fu (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?62291-Chinese-Military-Kung-Fu) thread.

Watch: Chinese Soldier's Lesson For Indian Officer Gets 'A' On Twitter (https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/watch-chinese-soldiers-lesson-for-indian-jawan-gets-a-on-twitter-1969473)
தமிழில் படிக்க
In the short clip, widely shared on social media, an Indian soldier can be seen trying to learn some tai chi moves by a Chinese soldier.
All India | Edited by Niharika Banerjee | Updated: December 28, 2018 18:22 IST

https://c.ndtvimg.com/2018-12/dvdt1if8_tai-chi-indian-soldier_625x300_28_December_18.jpg?output-quality=70&output-format=webp
A video of a Chinese soldier teaching tai chi to an Indian soldier is winning hearts on the internet.

NEW DELHI: Indian and Chinese militaries are often not in the news for their bonhomie, especially since the Doklam standoff that happened last year between the two neighbours. However, a video of a Chinese soldier teaching tai chi to an Indian soldier is winning hearts on the internet.
In the short clip, widely shared on social media, an Indian soldier can be seen trying to learn some tai chi moves by a Chinese soldier.

Embedded video (https://twitter.com/hvgoenka/status/1078521813720649728?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5 Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1078521813720649728&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ndtv.com%2Findia-news%2Fwatch-chinese-soldiers-lesson-for-indian-jawan-gets-a-on-twitter-1969473)

Harsh Goenka
✔
@hvgoenka
Here is a Chinese soldier teaching tai-chi to an Indian soldier

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21:23 - 27 Dec 2018
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Tai chi is an ancient Chinese practice focused on flexibility and whole body coordination that promotes harmonised motion in space. Tai chi has been previously proved to be an effective exercise to improve balance control and flexibility in older individuals, suggesting its efficacy in preventing falls.

Relations between India and China were severely hit by the 73-day face-off between the Indian and Chinese armies at the strategically sensitive Doklam tri-junction in the Sikkim sector last year.

Ties between India and China have improved since then after a series of meetings between Prime Minister Narendra Modi and Chinese president Xi Jinping. Indian officials say there have been a number of positive developments like Beijing giving market access to Indian products, but much is yet to be done in issues like addressing the widening trade deficit.

GeneChing

10-04-2019, 09:23 AM

Feature: Chinese Kung Fu opens new chapter for China-Kuwait military exchanges (http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2019-10/04/c_138446777.htm)
Source: Xinhua| 2019-10-04 01:23:59|Editor: xuxin

http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2019-10/04/138446777_15701454326401n.jpg

A Chinese People's Armed Police Force (CAPF) training group member teaches Kuwait National Guard (KNG) soldiers fighting skills in a military camp in Farwaniya Governorate, Kuwait, on Sept. 24, 2019. In the past month, seven officers from the Chinese People's Armed Police Force (CAPF) trained Kuwait National Guard (KNG) soldiers in shooting and combat tactics. (Photo by Niu Yuxi/Xinhua)

KUWAIT CITY, Oct. 3 (Xinhua) -- Following the rhythm of a famous Chinese song, Sun Jiangtao, an officer from the Chinese People's Armed Police Force (CAPF), performed Chinese Shaolin Kung Fu in a military camp of the Kuwait National Guard (KNG) and won warm applause of the audience.

It is part of the performance programme of a seven-member training group of the CAPF at the graduation ceremony of the military training for the KNG.

In the past month, seven officers from the CAPF trained KNG soldiers in shooting and combat tactics.

They not only demonstrated the tactical concept of the CAPF, but also taught the actual combat methods with the characteristics of traditional Chinese martial arts.

After one-month teaching course these Chinese drillmasters earned unanimous praise from the Kuwaiti soldiers and received the Medal of Honor awarded by the KNG at the ceremony.

On the sideline of the ceremony, Li Minggang, Chinese ambassador to Kuwait, told Xinhua that the training has opened a new chapter in the cooperation between the CAPF and the KNG.

"This is a major development of cooperation between the two countries since the establishment of the strategic partnership between China and Kuwait last year," Li noted.

At the ceremony, the Kuwaiti soldiers showed the results of the one-month training, including capture and counter-terrorism tactics.

Hamad Salem Al-Barjass, commander of protection and reinforcement of the KNG, told Xinhua that the CAPF has achieved great results in training of KNG soldiers.

"This is just a beginning, we look forward to the further cooperation between the two sides in the future," he said.

Li Shanliang, head of the training group, had traveled to Jordan and Romania for training foreign soldiers and has accumulated a lot of experience in training foreigners.

Considering the foreigners' interest in Chinese Kung Fu, Li combined Wing Chun Kung Fu and foreign fighting techniques and adopted a new fighting method, which was widely welcomed by Kuwaiti soldiers.

"I hope to break the traditional Chinese martial arts into modern fighting techniques, not only to strengthen the body, but also to make good use of it, so that Chinese Kung Fu can be passed down and carried forward," he noted.

According to Li, the KNG soldiers who participated in the training were very eager to learn the Chinese Kung Fu.

Meshaal Saif Aldhafeeri, one of the KNG soldiers, was hurt once in waist.

"We have never learned such a strong practical technology, it can not only attack suddenly, but also defend quickly, it is suitable for us to perform the task," he said.

The training group also conducted a series of teaching activities for the Kuwaiti soldiers to convey new ideas and tactical methods of CAPF special operations, including the concept of actual rapid shooting techniques.

http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2019-10/04/138446777_15701454648291n.jpg
http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2019-10/04/138446777_15701454648321n.jpg
http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2019-10/04/138446777_15701454648341n.jpg
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http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2019-10/04/138446777_15701454648371n.jpg
http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2019-10/04/138446777_15701454648391n.jpg
Chinese People's Armed Police Force (CAPF) training group members teach Kuwait National Guard (KNG) soldiers shooting skills in a military camp in Farwaniya Governorate, Kuwait, on Sept. 25, 2019. In the past month, seven officers from the Chinese People's Armed Police Force (CAPF) trained Kuwait National Guard (KNG) soldiers in shooting and combat tactics. (Photo by Niu Yuxi/Xinhua)

THREADS
Chinese Military Kung Fu (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?62291-Chinese-Military-Kung-Fu)
Shaolin in the military (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?62556-Shaolin-in-the-military)