Instructors/school owners-rotating curriculum?

[TenTigers]

How many of you have a rotating curriculum?
I know it is the industry standard, but I feel that most of these schools are Kenpo or TKD schools, and do not have the intensive curriculum that Kung-Fu requires.
What are you folks doing?

[Tainan Mantis]

TT, Thanks for your excellent posts on the subject in the past, they have always been helpful and thoughtful.

I have a rotating curriculum for the forms that I teach in the kids class.
Every four months I teach a new form and all ranks learn it together.

For the kicks and the partner drills it does not rotate.
So far this has worked well for me.

The classes are divided into:
1st to 3rd graders three days a week.
4th graders and up to 13 years old.

This method is different from how we teach in Taiwan where everyone learns together regardless of skill or level.

The school site
TampaKungfu (www.tampakungfu.com)

[ginosifu]

Our children's rotating curriculum consists of 12 Levels. We wear Sashes but, each rank is just a higher level. Testing is done every 3 months. 3 Months x 12 Tests = about 3 years.

The last 2 tests may take up to 6 months each depending on how hard the child works toward their "Black Sash". There are 3 tiers (beginner, Intermediate and advanced). Levels 1-4 rotate for beginners and when ever they come into the program the just start either 1-4 depending on what rotation we are on. Levels 5-8 are the intermediate stage and 9-12 are the advanced stage.

The curriculum itself is heavy on Shuai Chiao, Self Defense and Kung Fu Basics. Forms are only taught in the Black Belt Club or Demo Team or Tournament Team. Here kids and parents know exactly what they are supposed to do. Our basic curriculum has too many kids that can not or will not be able to remember any form work. I have got a lot kids with ADHD / ADD / Autism / Lazy Syndrome / Chronic Crying and Whining Syndrome etc etc in my basic curriculum.

The Adult Shaolin Curriculum is the same but with only 10 rotating belts.

ginosifu

[EarthDragon]

My shifu printed the entire system unto paper in the 80's, then broke it down into levels, which are 1. solo 2 application 3 fighting. 4 medical.
I often rotate between these learning levels monthly.

its keeps everyone from just reveiwing all the time when you miss my class you never know what i am going to cover.

its so much better than mondays are horse stance tueday bag work etc etc.

keep it fun and change often this keeps its fresh and makes your studtens not want to miss any class. I covered anatomay last class and my student was studying it in HS and he was like awww man I can learn that in my kung fu class? he is abright kid and upset he could have his fun kung fu class help him with boring high school.

[ginosifu]

Basic Rotation split up into 3 months of information x 4 cycles = 12 months or 1 year:

Jan 1- Mar 31
Rotation #1
Snap Toe Kick
Choke Defense
Flat / Vertical Punch
SC - Chopping Throw

Apr 1-June 30
Rotation #2
Heel Kick
Bear Hug Defense
Hook Punch
SC - Knee Seizing Throw

July 1- Sept 31
Rotation #3
Round Kick
Hair Grab Defense
Hammer Fist
SC - Leg Seizing Throw

Oct 1-Dec 31
Rotation #4
Side Kick
Head Lock Defense
Back Fist
SC - Shouldering Throw

Etc Etc-- No matter what month you start you will be learning our basics. You will not get out of this basic program until you have gone thru all of these cycles and successfully past exams covering all this material.

ginosifu

[TenTigers]

I must have a way, way complicated curriculum. I have ten levels to Black, each level contains four to six self-defense techniques-which often contain a,b,c variations, one form, and basic strikes, and drills.
Of course, once the student gets to forms like Gung Ji, Fook Fu, Fu Hok, etc., one form is a lot. Learning the broadsword requires first learning single stick drills, disarms, and select applications out of the set before learning the form.
Add in basic grappling...
I can't see doing GJFFK in a rotation and having rank beginners try to earn this form without a stepping stone form first.
Also, the more advanced self-defense techniques are multiple striking combinations, and are too complex for the beginner.
So far, what I have been doing is working, but I am told by my consultant that once I go from 60 students to 100-200 students, I will not be able to keep it up.

[YouKnowWho]

I like to category my moves into 12 different entering strategies. Each entering strategy may contain about 15 different way to finish. I may spend 1 months on 1 entering strategy then move into next one (depth 1st). I may touch all 12 entering strategies all in 1 month (breadth 1st).

[Golden Arms]

Not to get too off topic, but what entering strategies do you teach YouKnowWho?

I rotate the curriculum in 2 of the weekly classes and focus on putting it all together and fine tuning as well as the set the student is currently working on in the other 2.

We rotate through various facets such as:

Hand techniques
Leg techniques sweeps and knees
Elbows
Clinching and moving into and out of this range
Take downs
Entering strategies
etc.

[ginosifu]

TenTigers:

Beginner levels 1-4

Jan 1- Mar 31
Rotation #1
Snap Toe Kick
Choke Defense - version a,b,c
Flat / Vertical Punch
SC - Chopping Throw
Form - Horse Form (a stance only form)

Apr 1-June 30
Rotation #2
Heel Kick
Bear Hug Defense - version a,b,c
Hook Punch
SC - Knee Seizing Throw
Form - Arrow Hand (Wing Lams short version)

July 1- Sept 31
Rotation #3
Round Kick
Hair Grab Defense versions a,b,c
Hammer Fist
SC - Leg Seizing Throw
Form - Lau Gar 1/2 only

Oct 1-Dec 31
Rotation #4
Side Kick
Head Lock Defense - versions a,b,c
Back Fist
SC - Shouldering Throw
Form - Lau Gar second half

Intermediate Levels 5-8

Jan 1- Mar 31
Rotation #5
Crescent Kick
Chin Na #1
San Shou Combo #1
SC - Hip Throw
Form - Moi Fah 1/2

Apr 1-June 30
Rotation #6
Reverse Cresent
Chin Na #2
San Shou Combo #2
SC - Leg Blocking Throw
Form - Moi Fah second half

July 1- Sept 31
Rotation #7
Front Broom Sweep
Chin Na #3
San Shou Combo #3
SC - Inner Shoulder Throw
Form - Butterfly Palm 1/2

Oct 1-Dec 31
Rotation #8
Rear Iron Broom
Chin Na #4
San Shou Combo #4
SC - Inner Hooking Throw
Form - Butterfly Palm second half

Advanced Levels 9-10

Jan 1- June 30
Rotation #9
Tiger Tail
Street Fight Combo #1
San Da Elbows
SC - Embracing hrow
Form - Gung Ji Fook Fu 1/2
Form application a,b,c

July 1-Dec 31 This is the Black Belt Level
Rotation #10
Spin Hook
Street Combo #2
San Da Knees
SC - Outer Shoulder Throw
Form - Gung Ji Fok Fu second Half
Form application d,e,f

Rik: If you follow a rotating curriculum like this all you have to do is keep the forms in order. What I mean is they learn horse Form first no matter which part of the rotation they come into. They learn Arrow Hand second Lau Gar then Butterfly etc etc. The drills and self defense stay in rotation and you can plug any drill or form or technique where ever you like. The main thing is that they must have all the beginners tier finished before moving to the intermediate tier etc.

ginosifu

[David Jamieson]

I teach as I was taught.

[YouKnowWho]

Not to get too off topic, but what entering strategies do you teach YouKnowWho?
How to use kicks, punches, clinch to obtain

- leading leg,
- arm jam,
- head lock,
- under hook,
- over hook,
- waist wrap,
- bear hug,
- elbow lock,
- ...

and how to continue and finish from there. For example, I like to use

- 14 different ways to obtain "single leg", and 12 different ways to continue after that.
- 8 different ways to obtain "head lock", and 24 different ways to continue after that.
- ...

[TenTigers]

I teach as I was taught.
yeah, but how many students do you have? Do you teach full time?

When teaching to the masses, it is a hard balancing act between doing what will maintain my enrollment, while maintaining my integrity. I cannot be a belt factory. I have a standard, which I will not give up. I'm just trying to find a way to do both.
So far, I really have not seen many schools that have large numbers, and also maintain a high standard.
Steve LaVallee is one-a kenpo school, not a Kung-Fu school, but with a rich curriculum, and sharp students.
Show me a Kung-Fu school with 250 and up student count that is sharp. I will be at their door.

[TenTigers]

GINO-what is your student count?
do you have any vids of your students?

[ginosifu]

GINO-what is your student count?
do you have any vids of your students?

Always 80-100 students at a time. I have some vids of some SC matches... But what kinda vids are you looking for? How the class flows? or How well they do forms?
Let me know exactly what you wanna see and maybe I might have something

ginosifu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TInOxfc4gVQ

My 2 teens doing spear VS saber at 2011 Cleveland Asian fest. They start at 3.30

http://www.youtube.com/user/ginosifu?feature=mhee#p/u/6/wLThh3sgWz4

My lack Sash Club learning a Monkey form

[Subitai]

Does feedback from smaller schools answer anything for you Ten?

I never have more than about 15-20 students total for both styles I teach....and NO children, strictly adults only. So my average class on any given nite is only 4-6people.

I can understand why you guys have your curriculum set up with individual tech's when it comes to children. But for a smaller school like mine (w/ adults only) that seems chops sockey to me. I think it's better to focus on general methods of entry that are common in most encounters. From there you should teach how to follow your opponent.

For example: Dude puts his hands up...is he Orthodox or Southpaw? Automatically that tells you which is jab and which is powerhand. Just as an example of refinement: If you section off JUST STANDUP for a moment. Now you can limit the Entries to just a few principles.
* Teach how to enter of the jab
** Off the cross, or overhand
*** Double hand grab
Ect ect.
= and then it follows from there.

I like where Golden Arms and Youknowwho are going with their descriptions so far. Entering strategies to me is like a GUN. When you have a good gun you can shoot many diff. types of bullets.

Also Youknowwho's continuations after obtaining a simple "Single Leg" is smack on IMO. I'm sure he does this but I would concentrate on just a couple in each range and then let the student mature to the total number of 14 or greater. Too many too soon would be useless IMO.

If I were teaching grappling (which i'm not), i'm a big believer in starting with 1 take down, 1 escape and 1 reversal and work them to death. ONLY then, move on.

If I'm teaching Hung Gar...then I focus on oldschool HG, but my methods to apply are not only the traditional ones but majority of my focus in applying is how the major concepts are set up. Especially vs the kinds of attacks or aggressors that are the most likely to come up in everyday situations.

When I train for just self defense...it's totally different to how I trained for competition. It's a different mindset.

Gino, you partly come down the same lineage as me...but we teach vastly different.

[Subitai]

WHOA...

I just watched that 1st vid Gino... I must admit I paused and watched all the girls very closely.

Hmmm interesting!!!!:D:D:D


Man, it's like channel surfing when the wife is around and all of the sudden you get the Spanish Channel!! DOH!!!

[YouKnowWho]

Also Youknowwho's continuations after obtaining a simple "Single Leg" is smack on IMO. I'm sure he does this but I would concentrate on just a couple in each range and then let the student mature to the total number of 14 or greater. Too many too soon would be useless IMO.

Agree with you 100% there. If you don't want to teach your students anything. You teach him 10 different moves everyday and never review it. When I develop my "single leg", I use one single method for 6 months. After 6 months, I then use my "single leg" to set up my next move. The root of a tree then starts to grow. The 12 "entering strategies" are actually 12 full growing trees with many branches and leafs.

[EarthDragon]

TT

When teaching to the masses, it is a hard balancing act between doing what will maintain my enrollment, while maintaining my integrity. I cannot be a belt factory. I have a standard, which I will not give up. I'm just trying to find a way to do both.
I complety agree, reember this, you have the students that pay the bills adn then you have the studetns who yuo train to be martil artists.

Show me a Kung-Fu school with 250 and up student count that is sharp. I will be at their door.
you will be hard pressed to have that many good shapr dedicated students, read above

[ginosifu]

WHOA...

I just watched that 1st vid Gino... I must admit I paused and watched all the girls very closely.

Hmmm interesting!!!!:D:D:D


I teach kung fu at a Chinese community. Chinese Americans go there to learn Chinese language, characters, dancing, singing etc etc. I just happen to be the kung fu teacher. I love Asian women, every time I go there I get to see those girls practicing wushu fan and traditional dance ! Arghhh the wife coming .....

ghinosifu

[Mike Patterson]

yeah, but how many students do you have? Do you teach full time?

When teaching to the masses, it is a hard balancing act between doing what will maintain my enrollment, while maintaining my integrity. I cannot be a belt factory. I have a standard, which I will not give up. I'm just trying to find a way to do both.
So far, I really have not seen many schools that have large numbers, and also maintain a high standard.
Steve LaVallee is one-a kenpo school, not a Kung-Fu school, but with a rich curriculum, and sharp students.
Show me a Kung-Fu school with 250 and up student count that is sharp. I will be at their door.

Well, I'll let you judge the "sharpness" of my students for yourself. But as for the numbers you reference, we achieved and maintained that in my last large commercial school (I semi-retired in 2004 from the large commercial ventures) and we did it teaching only adults, 21 and above.

I taught (and still teach) all three "internal" arts. And I too have a standard like you do TT. You're right. It's hard to maintain a high standard and reach those kinds of numbers, but it can be done with the right approach. :)

[YouKnowWho]

Show me a Kung-Fu school with 250 and up student count that is sharp. I will be at their door.

My longfist brother Nelson Zou's "5 tigers club" in NYC used to have over 250 students. That was back in 1973.

[TenTigers]

My longfist brother Nelson Zou's "5 tigers club" in NYC used to have over 250 students. That was back in 1973.
John, in 73, it was the height of the Kung-Fu Craze-especially in NYC.
What is he doing now?

[YouKnowWho]

John, in 73, it was the height of the Kung-Fu Craze-especially in NYC.
What is he doing now?

Nelson quited teaching for quite sometime now. I had seen Nelson sparred with his students. He stood infront of the wall, his student punched him, he moved away, his student's punch hit the wall. He was that fast. His "chain kicks - knee stepping" was the fastest that I have ever seen.