Reverse punch

[mig]

All right experts and historians. LOL. I was wondering if someone has an idea where the reverse punch (ping choy) in a bow and arrow stance came from and why.
Who punches in that way in fighting or even street fighting or self defense?
Your feedback is appreciated.

thanks,

Mig

[TenTigers]

"From the large, comes the small," is an old Kung-Fu adage,
Just because you are doing a large motor skill movement fist chambered at the hip, an' all, doesn't mean that is the way you do it in practice. Just as line one of Tan Tuie teaches the drop-step lead the same as Dempsey, doesn't mean you leave your rear arm out there.
So..we all do it. Develops the weight/power transition from horse to bow and arrow.
If you are chambering your hand and thinking that this isn't fuctional, then you are still at the very, very beginner stage, where you cannot differentiate between exercise designed to develop specific skills, and fighting technique. Do not pass go, do not collect $200.

(oh, and MIG, I know you better than that...you're fishing...;-)

[TenTigers]

but good question, nonetheless.

[YouKnowWho]

Don't understand your question. The TCMA reverse punch is no different from the boxing cross. It's used in the boxing ring all the time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AY0ZaFdbP4Q&feature=relmfu

If you use jab, cross, jab combo, the TCMA will give your 3rd jab a fancy name as "black tiger eats your heart".

[mig]

but good question, nonetheless.

Hey I am not an expert so that's why I ask and I wondered when a novice raised the question. Yes back in the 70's we used to practice but found it useful for exercise. Thanks anyway TT.

Best

Mig

[mig]

Don't understand your question. The TCMA reverse punch is no different from the boxing cross. It's used in the boxing ring all the time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AY0ZaFdbP4Q&feature=relmfu

If you use jab, cross, jab combo, the TCMA will give your 3rd jab a fancy name as "black tiger eats your heart".

I am talking about this

[YouKnowWho]

I am talking about this
What's the difference? Did I miss something important here? :confused:

White cat, black cat, as long as it can catch mice, it's good cat.

http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=6711&d=1321769522

http://www.google.com/imgres?q=boxing+cross+punch&hl=en&sa=X&qscrl=1&nord=1&rlz=1T4PPST_enUS398US398&biw=1344&bih=715&tbm=isch&prmd=imvns&tbnid=0jW5X_VCnE4DZM:&imgrefurl=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross_(boxing)&docid=-4m4a_WXiMA_tM&imgurl=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/79/Absorption_torsion1.jpg/120px-Absorption_torsion1.jpg&w=120&h=114&ei=jprITurcJcnPiALs8JDkDw&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=1026&vpy=326&dur=183&hovh=91&hovw=96&tx=94&ty=51&sig=113025987604130002036&page=6&tbnh=91&tbnw=96&start=86&ndsp=19&ved=1t:429,r:11,s:86

[bawang]

this is from important beginner concepts in northern kung fu:
large frame and small frame: start in exaggerated posture and progress to realistic posture

if you want to milk someone, you teach chambering and never progress. it messes up their muscle memory and keeps them under control.

[Vajramusti]

[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1144112]Don't understand your question. The TCMA reverse punch is no different from the boxing cross. It's used in the boxing ring all the time.

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I don't think so-- the appearance of similarity is superficial IMO.

[jdhowland]

[QUOTE=Vajramusti;1144143

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I don't think so-- the appearance of similarity is superficial IMO.[/QUOTE]



The apparent difference is superficial. A cross punch is exactly what it is. Just a different training method to develop range and balance.

[dirtyrat]

Don't understand your question. The TCMA reverse punch is no different from the boxing cross. It's used in the boxing ring all the time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AY0ZaFdbP4Q&feature=relmfu

If you use jab, cross, jab combo, the TCMA will give your 3rd jab a fancy name as "black tiger eats your heart".

hey YKW, isn't the reverse punch used in shuaijiao as a elbow crank against a belt grab? i heard it called "surpassing" or something. don't remember the Chinese name for it.

[Lee Chiang Po]

Probably from back when kraty was popular.

[Lee Chiang Po]

Probably from back when kraty was popular. In the 70's when during turniments two guys would grab each others lapel and simulate punches to the head, yelling Keeeeyaaaa, keeeeyaaaaa.

[YouKnowWho]

hey YKW, isn't the reverse punch used in shuaijiao as a elbow crank against a belt grab? i heard it called "surpassing" or something. don't remember the Chinese name for it.

The reverse punch is the SC solo form #1, diagonal strike. It's done with a palm edge strike instead. What you are talking about is more like an upper cut that you put pressure on your opponent's elbow joint.

Some people may say that SC has no strike. IMO, SC solo form:

- #1 (diagonal strike) is a "cross".
- #2 (neck surround) is an "hook punch".
- #3 (arm lock) is an "upper cut".


I don't think so-- the appearance of similarity is superficial IMO.
It's up to you how you want to use it. It's not up to your TCMA style or boxing.


Probably from back when kraty was popular. In the 70's when during turniments two guys would grab each others lapel and simulate punches to the head, yelling Keeeeyaaaa, keeeeyaaaaa.

When you grab your opponent's lapel and punch his head at the same time, not only you need to yell Keeeyaaa, you also need to look at the referee to make sure that he saw it. The person on the receiving side will turn his head, bites on his own lips, spits out blood, and yell to the judge, "illegal face contact".

Those were the "good old days".

[TenTigers]

It's up to you how you want to use it. It's not up to your TCMA style or boxing.



well said!

[dirtyrat]

When you grab your opponent's lapel and punch his head at the same time, not only you need to yell Keeeyaaa, you also need to look at the referee to make sure that he saw it. The person on the receiving side will turn his head, bites on his own lips, spits out blood, and yell to the judge, "illegal face contact".

Those were the "good old days".

now that was well said...:D

[YouKnowWho]

"From the large, comes the small,"
A father used a stick to draw a 6 inch straight line on the dirt ground. He then asked his son what he was drawing. His son said, "It's a 1". The father then used his stick to draw a 3 feet straight line and asked his son again. His son said, "I don't know." His father said, "It's still 1." The son said, "How come the same 1 grow so big in such a short time?"

[sanjuro_ronin]

A few things:
The reverse punch is a body strike (typically) and that is how is how it was most taught in Karate ( of course you can use it to the head).
The cross is a head shot and is used typiclaly to the head.
The differences are minimal but "substancial".
The "rear/straight to the body" in boxing is more of a "reverse punch" than a cross.
That said HOW we USE a strike is what makes it different when comparing it from one system to another.

[ginosifu]

this is from important beginner concepts in northern kung fu:
large frame and small frame: start in exaggerated posture and progress to realistic posture

if you want to milk someone, you teach chambering and never progress. it messes up their muscle memory and keeps them under control.

You actually got it backwards there bawang. It teaches a type of muscle memory that helps them in the future.

The structure of the chambered fist: Palm up, fingers clenched tight, elbow down and pull fist and arm back so the fist is at or near the floating ribs. As you punch, you keep your elbow down and twist or roll over your fist as you punch.

Some people roll it over while punching, some people roll it over after completion. This does not matter so much. However, when I teach fighting.... the REVERSE punch fires from the guard position. There is no chamber of the fist before punching. Muscle memory helps with keeping the elbow down and rolling over the fist, even it fires from the guard position.

Bawang, I know you think all of us round eyed devils just want to milk people for there monies. I on the other hand want to milk people for their monies and teach them a little bit of real Chinese Kung Fu.

ginosifu

[bawang]

older kung fu styles in china always keep their hands up. new styles teach for money and performance so keep their hands down.