Open Invitation

[WCWC]

Open invitation - Critique our video !:eek: Go ahead - Love it, Hate it - Thrash it- Elevate it!
Do that voodoo that you do-
Sifu B


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NNvywRWi8kEnjoy,

[Paul T England]

nice little video.

My understanding of turning differs from your explaination but each to thier own.

Paul
www.moifa.co.uk

[stonecrusher69]

Nice tip..

[Phil Redmond]

Open invitation - Critique our video !:eek: Go ahead - Love it, Hate it - Thrash it- Elevate it!
Do that voodoo that you do-
Sifu B


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NNvywRWi8kEnjoy,
We try not to shift and prefer to step and turn. But, for those who do shift that was a good clip and good explanation. I'd like to add that unlike myself some people here believe their way is the only way. Be ready for some knucklehead comments on this forum. ;)

[Hendrik]

We try not to shift and prefer to step and turn. But, for those who do shift that was a good clip and good explanation. I'd like to add that unlike myself some people here believe their way is the only way. Be ready for some knucklehead comments on this forum. ;)

I agree with you Phil.

as for the shift or step -turn, toes or heel.... ect
In my opinion, is related or dependent on breathing phase and momentum handling in additional to applications.

So, it is actually not a "single isolate" event. it depends on how many dimension one has handling/control. and those are varies due to different level of kung fu or training one put in.

[nasmedicine]

yeah i'm not a fan of shifting at all, but to each his own. Personal I turn from the waist or use footwork (each depending on the situation)

[GlennR]

Open invitation - Critique our video !:eek: Go ahead - Love it, Hate it - Thrash it- Elevate it!
Do that voodoo that you do-
Sifu B


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NNvywRWi8kEnjoy,

I think it voodoo'd itself ;)

[wingchunIan]

Different way to the way in which we turn, for us the weight should be through a point directly below the ankle joint (note I said different and not right or wrong). As an observation people's stances get wider or narrower as they turn because the weight is moving forward or backward along the foot as they turn causing the feet to walk. Whether you turn on the toes or right back on the heels won't make your stance width change if you continuously do the same thing.
What fascinates me more than the vid is that there are lineages of wing Chun that have apparently completely ditched the turn, i'm intruiged by the thinking and rationale behind this if anyone wants to share

[Robinhood]

Its like the finger pointing to the moon, don't concentrate on the finger.

The foot is not what is important, where do you guys learn this stuff?

No wonder the arts get so watered down.

Try not to pretend you are turning on ice, or rising to turn, what happens then?

Who is the master of the foot?

[Buddha_Fist]

I'd like to add that unlike myself some people here believe their way is the only way. Be ready for some knucklehead comments on this forum. ;)

Anybody following a determined method thinks that it is the way. Otherwise you would be changing your training method to whatever is the flavor of the month. Having said that, you too believe in a sense that your way is the only way. The question is whether you are open to engage in a technical discussion with other people and how you choose to communicate.

The problem with something as hands-on as Ving Tsun is that it really needs to be demonstrated in a practical manner. You can write a lot theories that sound plausible in writing, yet when you put them under pressure they are just hot air. In my personal opinion, 90% of what you read here fits that category. And that is fine, a discussion forum is predominantly filled with people that are still on the search, thirsty for answers, without a fully defined road map of what lies ahead in their Ving Tsun path. There's magic in this discovery and people get excited about it, and the result are heated debates. Back to Ving Tsun being hands-on though, if you are serious about exchanging and experiencing Ving Tsun as practiced by others, the forum won't do. You have to touch hands.

[YouKnowWho]

When you turn on your

- toes, you are not committed on your turning.
- heel, you are committed on your turning.

A easy test will be to ask your opponent to sweep your foot. Which way can you escape your foot out of his sweep easier?

Another way is to test yourself on frozen lake surface. Which way will make you feel safter?

The interest thing is if you turn both feet on the toes or heels, your feet will remain the same distance before and after. If you turn one foot by toes while turn other foot by heel, you will either increase or decrease the distance between your feet.

[wingchunIan]

Its like the finger pointing to the moon, don't concentrate on the finger.

The foot is not what is important, where do you guys learn this stuff?

No wonder the arts get so watered down.

Try not to pretend you are turning on ice, or rising to turn, what happens then?

Who is the master of the foot?

I would suggest that the reason the arts get watered down is because too many people grab hold of a concept or saying such as the Bruce Lee line quoted and it becomes an excuse for not paying attention to detail and building good solid foundations.

[Phil Redmond]

Anybody following a determined method thinks that it is the way. Otherwise you would be changing your training method to whatever is the flavor of the month. Having said that, you too believe in a sense that your way is the only way. . . .
Not true in my case. I'm a martial artist first and foremost who happens to specialize in WC. Only a non combatant would think their way is the only way. No flavor of the month but I use what works under pressure if the situation warrants it regardless of where it comes from. I have other martial arts under my belt that I'll use where WC wouldn't be appropriate..

[sanjuro_ronin]

The only people that think they are doing something "unique" are those that don't get out much and experience what the MA world has to offer.

[Buddha_Fist]

The only people that think they are doing something "unique" are those that don't get out much and experience what the MA world has to offer.

Or those that have gone out a lot and have experienced what the MA world has to offer.

:cool:

[sanjuro_ronin]

Or those that have gone out a lot and have experienced what the MA world has to offer.

:cool:

LMAO !
True, a valid point there too.

[couch]

When you turn on your

- toes, you are not committed on your turning.
- heel, you are committed on your turning.

A easy test will be to ask your opponent to sweep your foot. Which way can you escape your foot out of his sweep easier?

Another way is to test yourself on frozen lake surface. Which way will make you feel safter?

The interest thing is if you turn both feet on the toes or heels, your feet will remain the same distance before and after. If you turn one foot by toes while turn other foot by heel, you will either increase or decrease the distance between your feet.

Both methods (and including K1 shifting) are valid. Just like anything, you have to get taught it, train it and make it work.

There are no absolutes - so I disagree that there is ANY better way to shift.

[Grumblegeezer]

Different way to the way in which we turn, for us the weight should be through a point directly below the ankle joint (note I said different and not right or wrong). As an observation people's stances get wider or narrower as they turn because the weight is moving forward or backward along the foot as they turn causing the feet to walk. Whether you turn on the toes or right back on the heels won't make your stance width change if you continuously do the same thing.
What fascinates me more than the vid is that there are lineages of wing Chun that have apparently completely ditched the turn, i'm intruiged by the thinking and rationale behind this if anyone wants to share

@WCWC: I think WC Ian (quoted above) had a pretty good take on your vid. One good point is that the width of your stance will not widen or narrow according to whether you turn on your toes or heels if you are consistent in your movements. I have observed Vajramusdi's classes for example, and they turn on their heels. There is no problem with their stances getting too wide. I have seen other groups who favor turning on the balls of their feet, and their stances do not automatically narrow.

I personally come from lineage that turns one foot at a time (in a rapid sequential flow), pivoting on the center of the foot. Again, the stance doesn't narrow or widen if done correctly. My original Sifu felt that this way was the "only way" and that all other methods were simply "wrong". There are several members of this forum who are similarly inflexible in their outlook. On the other hand, I believe that the different approaches to turning each represent a trade-off. Each offers certain advantages and disadvantages. I prefer what I've learned, but perhaps others will have more success with a different method. Good for them.

Now back to your video. It maybe useful to your students, but as an analysis of why a student's stance gets too narrow or wide, it is flawed. The reason students' stances spread or contract during turning is do to inconsistent or uneven movement of the feet and legs.

[YouKnowWho]

Should you turn on your "toes" or turn on your "heel"? I just found this elementary school TCMA training book that has very clear picture on how to turn.

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/8641/horsestance.jpg