Wing Chun Fight or Art?

[Yoshiyahu]

Wing Chun is a martial Art.


Do you study it for combat because you enjoy fighting? or do you study it because you just love chinese culture an feel at one with the universe when you practice martial arts. Does the rhythmic movement inspire your artistic side and you just love how it makes you feel. You love the beauty and essence of the style, system or art!


Do you like WC because you enjoy the martial side. You enjoy fighting, You enjoy phyiscal combat and attacking and defending against an aggressive opponent?

Do you enjoy the attritubtes of being able to use your WC in an actual fight!!!


Some Train WC to be great at doing WC as an art!!!

Some Train WC to be great at fighting!!!!

Which are you Fighter or Artist?

[Lee Chiang Po]

Wing Chun is not so much an art, but more a science. It was put together by many people that had a great understanding of the science of fighting. It consists of technique and principal that is easily duplicated and results can be consistant. Easy to teach, easy to learn, and once learned, retained from then on. And it can usually be kept and used well past your physical prime. It was originally designed for a fighting army.
Now, for those that seem to think you have to fight to prove your stuff, I think it is a mind set for them as well. They feel that they have to be tough and fight to prove it. Misguided I think, as you can not learn how to fight during a fight. You simply don't have time to learn technique or develop a stratogy. That is why most people simply start windmilling at one another. You learn your fighting in a classroom setting, and then do your best to apply it when you do fight. The fact that you might be willing to jump in a ring and fight with someone does not mean anything. It just means you are willing to get hit in the face just to hit someone back. It don't mean you can fight well at all, just willing to do it. The martial arts if you will, were not designed to fight with others of equal skill. They were designed to give you an edge over others of average fighting ability. Period.

[WC1277]

Wing Chun is not so much an art, but more a science. It was put together by many people that had a great understanding of the science of fighting. It consists of technique and principal that is easily duplicated and results can be consistant. Easy to teach, easy to learn, and once learned, retained from then on. And it can usually be kept and used well past your physical prime. It was originally designed for a fighting army.
Now, for those that seem to think you have to fight to prove your stuff, I think it is a mind set for them as well. They feel that they have to be tough and fight to prove it. Misguided I think, as you can not learn how to fight during a fight. You simply don't have time to learn technique or develop a stratogy. That is why most people simply start windmilling at one another. You learn your fighting in a classroom setting, and then do your best to apply it when you do fight. The fact that you might be willing to jump in a ring and fight with someone does not mean anything. It just means you are willing to get hit in the face just to hit someone back. It don't mean you can fight well at all, just willing to do it. The martial arts if you will, were not designed to fight with others of equal skill. They were designed to give you an edge over others of average fighting ability. Period.

Good post!

[YouKnowWho]

Some Train WC to be great at doing WC as an art!!!

What will you do differently if you do WC as an art? Put on fancy uniform? Dance with music?

[Phil Redmond]

Wing Chun is not so much an art, but more a science. It was put together by many people that had a great understanding of the science of fighting. It consists of technique and principal that is easily duplicated and results can be consistant. Easy to teach, easy to learn, and once learned, retained from then on. And it can usually be kept and used well past your physical prime. It was originally designed for a fighting army.
Now, for those that seem to think you have to fight to prove your stuff, I think it is a mind set for them as well. They feel that they have to be tough and fight to prove it. Misguided I think, as you can not learn how to fight during a fight. You simply don't have time to learn technique or develop a stratogy. That is why most people simply start windmilling at one another. You learn your fighting in a classroom setting, and then do your best to apply it when you do fight. The fact that you might be willing to jump in a ring and fight with someone does not mean anything. It just means you are willing to get hit in the face just to hit someone back. It don't mean you can fight well at all, just willing to do it. The martial arts if you will, were not designed to fight with others of equal skill. They were designed to give you an edge over others of average fighting ability. Period.
The part about not fighting is so offline. But people who don't fight will think that way and it's their prerogative to think so. I do understand that people take martial arts for different reasons though. But don't knock those who are willing to pressure test their art.

[imperialtaichi]

I don't advocate fighting, at least not in Australia due to legal issues. And if someone's carrying a hidden blade, you are F'ed. It's just not worth it.

But while you don't go and pick fights, it does not mean fights don't go pick you. Yes, the adrenalin was addictive. And there were occasions when I managed to resolve the situation peacefully, but deep down I was hoping it would escalate. :p

If you built a car, put in all the hard work, how could you not want to test drive it?

[LoneTiger108]

Some Train WC to be great at doing WC as an art!!!

Some Train WC to be great at fighting!!!!

Which are you Fighter or Artist?

I think we all should be aiming to be both, because we are Martial Artists right?

But personally, I have always loved the Arts and was told by my Grandad NEVER to join the Army and fight! :eek: So I guess my 'military experience' has been fed in some way by taking up Martial Arts and learning discipline, loyalty etc

I hate to watch fighting in real life, not so bad watching it on TV and from memory (what's left of it lol!) I used to love the feel of 'fist on face'. Both my own and my opponents ;) albeit always 'gloves on' :(

The rare occassions it's been 'bone to bone' have been quite distressing and I felt mass guilt for what happend, even though I was just defending myself! Still, we live and move on eh...

[Lee Chiang Po]

The part about not fighting is so offline. But people who don't fight will think that way and it's their prerogative to think so. I do understand that people take martial arts for different reasons though. But don't knock those who are willing to pressure test their art.

I am not knocking those that do choose to pressure test their skills. However, you have to except the reality of their purpose. I have actually pressure tested my own skills, more than a few times actually. I have never learned anything in an actual fight. Except maybe that it hurts when you take one full in the face or you get kicked in a bad spot. I have learned what and which of my moves work best for me, and I have used them over and over and over because of their simplicity and the fact that they worked for me. I did not pick these up while in a fight, simply because things were moving so fast I did not have time to think of what might and might not work. I simply applied or attempted to apply what I had learned in the class room. It is really simple.

[YouKnowWho]

If you train WC for the art, do you think that you should pick modern Wushu instead? :confused:

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://withfriendship.com/images/g/30019/modern-shaolin-wushu-athletic.jpg&imgrefurl=http://withfriendship.com/user/svaruna/wushu.php&h=504&w=400&sz=54&tbnid=lHoMqhJUnLQXMM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=71&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dwushu%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=wushu&docid=H5M095Kb9gxO8M&hl=en&sa=X&ei=hAXPTpG_GvTWiAKDpPT8Cw&sqi=2&ved=0CFwQ9QEwBQ

[Lee Chiang Po]

What will you do differently if you do WC as an art? Put on fancy uniform? Dance with music?

Well, if you are going to call it an art and practice it as such, I guess you would look better in a nice uniform and a bit of music might even set the mood. For it to be an art you would want it to look like an art. Perfect movements, perfect dress, everything that would say art. Wing Chun is such an ugly form of fighting, I think one of the other forms would look more artistic what with all the fancy moves and such, don't you think?

[EternalSpring]

Well, if you are going to call it an art and practice it as such, I guess you would look better in a nice uniform and a bit of music might even set the mood. For it to be an art you would want it to look like an art. Perfect movements, perfect dress, everything that would say art. Wing Chun is such an ugly form of fighting, I think one of the other forms would look more artistic what with all the fancy moves and such, don't you think?

TBH, i think your view on what is "art" is a bit narrow, at least in this thread in regards to martial arts. Art doesn't have to be about bright colors and pretty appearance, even when it comes to martial arts or Ving Tsun to be specific. Pretty appearance could be a type of art, but art can be expressed in many things besides physical appearance. Many skills can be refined into an "art form" imho. There is a sense of beauty in the simplicity and effectiveness of Ving Tsun.

Also in regards to art, I would consider the fruits of anyone's training in martial art to be a work of art solely on the fact that art is really an expression of self in actions, and even though a style or system may be being passed down, what is seen is the expression of the martial arts through the specific practitioner. Every thread in this Ving Tsun section of the forum pretty much shows that there are so many ways of applying Ving Tsun, and all these ways exist because Ving Tsun is expressed differently for different people, and all of them can work in application. Each different way of using Ving Tsun amongst it's practitioners is a piece of art imo, and since the art is focused on things like simplicity and efficiency, those are the types of criteria that determine what is truly "beautiful"

[Yoshiyahu]

Very interesting view points!

[Yoshiyahu]

So can Wing Chun be effective with out an artistic expression

[Christos WC]

Hello people,

Does anyone know Delta Wing Chun and the lineage of Sifu Lakis Philippou?
Please watch the videos in youtube and comment to the thread here

Thank you!

[Grumblegeezer]

TBH, i think your view on what is "art" is a bit narrow, at least in this thread in regards to martial arts. Art doesn't have to be about bright colors and pretty appearance, even when it comes to martial arts or Ving Tsun to be specific. Pretty appearance could be a type of art, but art can be expressed in many things besides physical appearance. Many skills can be refined into an "art form" imho. There is a sense of beauty in the simplicity and effectiveness of Ving Tsun.

People have odd ideas about what "art" is. Many people seem to think that the "fancier" and or ornate something is, the more "arty" it is. Yea, art can be very ornate and overdone, or it can be very simple, direct and elegant. Consider the following examples.

First, The Baroque painter Tiepolo's Death of Hyacynth Vey ornate, or what we in the martial arts would term "flashy".

http://www.chinaoilpaintinggallery.com/oilpainting/Giambattista-Tiepolo/The-Death-of-Hyacinth.jpg


Now the mid-20th Century modernist/minimalist Piet Mondrian. He has reduced his entire composition to a few black and white lines, focusing on structure, form and space. His painting is to art what Wing Chun is to martial arts.

http://www.arcadja.com/artmagazine/en/wp-content/gallery/090422-top-lot/piet-mondrian-composition-in-black-and-white-with-double-lines.jpg

[Niersun]

I I have never learned anything in an actual fight.

You tend to learn afterwards when you reflect on it. If you remember anything.

Anyhow, it appears im turning into a theorist. No longer doing forms (art) or fighting (who goes around looking for fights and have no time for competition?)

[hulkout]

People have different takes on what is art and what is just fighting. Frankly, I think the whole thing is ridiculous. Every martial art, no matter how you dress it up, is designed for fighting. Plain and simple. Yes there is sprituality, humility, respect, but that depends more on the person. Someone can learn boxing and from it learn humility, respect, skill, focus, all the things that a more traditional art would give you. Then you can have someone who trains in a traditional art who's nothing but a punk. Whos to say it's not a martial art just because there are no flowery forms or there isn't a figure of General Kwan in the school?

The problem is that people have gotten so far away from the original intent of martial art and each generation gets more and more watered down. If you say that you like to practice full contact fighting, then you're called egotistical or violent. I guess the true essence of martial art is only practicing forms, "dead" drills, and throwing out a few Chinese proverbs. But Heaven forbid, you should never practice actual fighting. That's only for savages. So to sum it up, Wing Chun and in fact every martial art is both an art and for fighting. And if you ever come across a sifu or teacher of any art who tells you otherwise, he's either an idiot or a liar.

[EternalSpring]

People have odd ideas about what "art" is. Many people seem to think that the "fancier" and or ornate something is, the more "arty" it is. Yea, art can be very ornate and overdone, or it can be very simple, direct and elegant. Consider the following examples.

First, The Baroque painter Tiepolo's Death of Hyacynth Vey ornate, or what we in the martial arts would term "flashy".

http://www.chinaoilpaintinggallery.com/oilpainting/Giambattista-Tiepolo/The-Death-of-Hyacinth.jpg


Now the mid-20th Century modernist/minimalist Piet Mondrian. He has reduced his entire composition to a few black and white lines, focusing on structure, form and space. His painting is to art what Wing Chun is to martial arts.

http://www.arcadja.com/artmagazine/en/wp-content/gallery/090422-top-lot/piet-mondrian-composition-in-black-and-white-with-double-lines.jpg

awesome example, well said!