grappling as your only training? not always the best idea

[shaolin_allan]

Ok I for one am all for cross training in grappling and anti grappling. People on a certain other forum i'm sure we all know which one constantly hates on styles outside of the ones trained in MMA. I'm not saying they're right or wrong but look at this video and answer if you think you need a primary striking system for self defense instead of just doing grappling.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00g5a416rdU

[Dragonzbane76]

I'm a big advocate of grappling and honestly I will say, that if you are doing just one thing and not training all the zones of fighting then yes things like this happen. But then again, sometimes you can not stop this kind of thing. Blind sided and taken down and someone kicks you in the face. Not much that TCMA can give you that would help IMO...

If you want to improve your chances in encounters like this. Train all levels of fighting not just grappling and not just stand up. Train grappling/clinch/standup in tandum.

[Frost]

dont know this guy seems to do ok with just grappling :rolleyes:
and to be honest id rather get hit with a punch than the suplex he hits at 0.17

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ie1GGP3-eTE

the scariest guys i have ever seen fight have all been grapplers, (well apart from the rugby guys i have seen get into fights but hey that is grappling lol), something about the ablity to man handle your opponent and throw him around in just plain scary

one of my mates who is mainly a grappler suplexed a guy unconcious in a fight, then when he came round choked him back asleep, no punches thrown

[YouKnowWho]

Many years ago, a striker challenged a grappler. The grappler went to his teacher and asked for suggestion. "I don't know striking. What should I do?" The teacher said, "Can you take it?" During the challenge day. The striker delievered a powerful roundhouse kick at the grappler's chest area. The grappler caught it with his arm. It almst broke his arm. The grappler bited on his lips, accepted the pain, and took his opponent down to the ground. The fight then finished right there.

[Robinhood]

Many years ago, a striker challenged a grappler. The grappler went to his teacher and asked for suggestion. "I don't know striking. What should I do?" The teacher said, "Can you take it?" During the challenge day. The striker delievered a powerful roundhouse kick at the grappler's chest area. The grappler cuaght it with his arm. It almst broke his arm. The grappler bited on his lips, accepted the pain, and took his opponent down to the ground. The fight then finished right there.

I guess that guy in the video couldn't take it on the chin, that is why a striker needs to be able to pick the targets that are weak.

[Frost]

I guess that guy in the video couldn't take it on the chin, that is why a striker needs to be able to pick the targets that are weak.

sure good luck with that :)

[shaolin_allan]

I guess the real point I was trying to get at is the danger of just doing a style like bjj and the fact that it can be dangerous with people around to try and grapple someone. Personally even if I trained in grappling, if it was in the street like that, I would still try and get up as fast as possible. I think you have to pick and choose and ground fighting to me seems like it's not the best way to defend yourself with others around. That's why I think striking is a necessity. I think 1 on 1 sure bjj could be great in most situations, but how often do people get into fights as adults without others being there to help instigate or pull you off their friend, attack you etc.. when he starts losing.

[Frost]

a few points, take them for what they are worth (not alot lol)
Grappling is not just BJJ its also wrestling, judo etc ie arts that like to throw you on your head, if you are facing multipul opponents grabbing one using him as a shield and then launching him on his head might be a good idea and might be something that makes the others in the group go ouch i dont want a piece of that as they see their mate in a heap on the floor

secondly a grappler doesnt have to spend time on the floor, he might use his skills to put you down and stomp on your head whilst keeping an eye on your mates

finally good luck standing up against a determined attacker without real grappling training

[Lucas]

in that guys defense, he thot his back was covered. as the only other homie there was on his side. he just didnt think about loco mom power.

[sanjuro_ronin]

So I guess being on the bottom isn't so bad, LOL !

[Lucas]

depends on how much she weighs... :eek:

[sanjuro_ronin]

depends on how much she weighs... :eek:

Since when have YOU been picky?
:D

[Lucas]

LOL!!!!!!!!!! :eek:

[shaolin_allan]

yes i agree that grappling isnt just bjj. I was referring to someone in a situation where others are involved to try and finish the fight with your opponent with both of you on the ground. Even if I took Judo which is very useful, if my goal was to learn self defense I think at least basic boxing skills is a necessity. I mean actually learning some striking somewhere and not just someone who self educates, like all the video learned masters that keep making martial arts look bad these days.

[deejaye72]

i think grappling is great, would love to learn more, just not on the street. man, she cold clocked him lol

[Chadderz]

Captain Obvious! Striking as your only option isn't fantastic either.


Cross training is essential. Anti-grappling is the stupidest thing in the world.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkLTxwATgbs

[Frost]

Captain Obvious! Striking as your only option isn't fantastic either.


Cross training is essential. Anti-grappling is the stupidest thing in the world.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkLTxwATgbs

umm where the h*ll was antigrappling mentioned in this thread :confused:

[Chadderz]

Ok I for one am all for cross training in grappling and anti grappling. People on a certain other forum i'm sure we all know which one constantly hates on styles outside of the ones trained in MMA. I'm not saying they're right or wrong but look at this video and answer if you think you need a primary striking system for self defense instead of just doing grappling.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00g5a416rdU


umm where the h*ll was antigrappling mentioned in this thread :confused:

The OP. It just doesn't work.

[try]

The wc guy was stepping back therefore taking his momentum the wrong way and floating. There was no rooting. The attack defence at 36 secs when he tried to control the head looked better than others but this did not look well executed. Mma guys slam for fun and can even do so at close range giving less time to react. Practitioners need to learn essence in martial arts (I don't do wc) and im still learning my trade.

Mma guys who just counter by grabbing around the attackers back don't fair any better tho they are easier to lift as centre of gravity too far forward when they bend forward. They play in to their opponents hands. If u do tcma don't fight mma with mma or u will lose.

Just my observation

[Chadderz]

Well it's more the observation that a) that is the worst takedown attempt I have ever seen b) he is not a wrestler, therefore knows nothing about wrestling, therefore cannot take people down in wrestling fashion c) against a wrestler that will never work, because of the major training flaws of a and b.

[Dragonzbane76]

That had to honestly be some of the worst take downs i have seen in awhile. That was like getting the legs and then stopping. The guy didn't dog through and follow up with the take downs. He didn't change levels properly, his face was looking at the ground, his back was lurched forward. Proper take down on a single is the spine is vertical. So for some guy to be stating he's defending the takedown, he better get someone who knows what one is to try against.

[Chadderz]

That had to honestly be some of the worst take downs i have seen in awhile. That was like getting the legs and then stopping. The guy didn't dog through and follow up with the take downs. He didn't change levels properly, his face was looking at the ground, his back was lurched forward. Proper take down on a single is the spine is vertical. So for some guy to be stating he's defending the takedown, he better get someone who knows what one is to try against.

Truth! How do I +rep you?

[Iron_Eagle_76]

You can always tell when someone doesn't know how to shoot when they gallop from ten feet away with their head down.

[maxattck]

That's what you get when you have a chunner attempting a takedown......so much fail. Good analysis by dragonz, and iron eagle right on no one in their right mind shoots from that far. The best shoots are from close range.

[Lucas]

You can always tell when someone doesn't know how to shoot when they gallop from ten feet away with their head down.

and thats exactly where the mindset of some silly 'takedown defense' ideas come from. people not understanding good shots in the first place and using their own mis conceptions as the basis for their ideas.

[shaolin_allan]

Captain Obvious! Striking as your only option isn't fantastic either.


Cross training is essential. Anti-grappling is the stupidest thing in the world.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkLTxwATgbs

The example you've given for anti-grappling is a terrible one. Many people think striking or grappling is good enough for self-defense. This thread has an important topic and that's why others have contributed great opinions on it. I am talking about people who train in grappling and actually are good at getting out of takedowns. Not some lame WC'ers who are doing some very fake takedowns. I'm not saying WC is lame, just that the video provided is not an example of real anti-grappling.

[maxattck]

The only way to learn to defend a take down is to train them. Learn the correct way to preform and defend. Learn grip fighting, sprawls ect. And train against a resisting competent partner

[Chadderz]

The example you've given for anti-grappling is a terrible one. Many people think striking or grappling is good enough for self-defense. This thread has an important topic and that's why others have contributed great opinions on it. I am talking about people who train in grappling and actually are good at getting out of takedowns. Not some lame WC'ers who are doing some very fake takedowns. I'm not saying WC is lame, just that the video provided is not an example of real anti-grappling.

There i no such thing as anti-grappling. There is only grappling. "Anti-grappling" was developed by people who can't hack grappling. Same way there is no "anti-striking".

Also, please post a good video of "anti-grappling".

[Lucas]

i personally dont like the term 'anti grappling'. (to me that implies you are looking for grappling defenses without having to understand grappling, since you are 'anti grappling') there are grappling defenses for specific situations/techniques to be sure, and not all include grappling but most do. the best defense against most all grappling scenarios is generally going to be grappling itself. :eek:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7Lhqt-ZWxY

[Frost]

There i no such thing as anti-grappling. There is only grappling. "Anti-grappling" was developed by people who can't hack grappling. Same way there is no "anti-striking".

Also, please post a good video of "anti-grappling".

Were are you based?

if you are in the UK you might have heard of karl tanswell, he came up with an anti grappling programme which the SBG guys use to good effect, of course he cant hack grappling, afterall hes only a BJJ blackbelt and greco coach

[Chadderz]

The MMA coach? :D

Who is SGB?

[Frost]

The MMA coach? :D

Who is SGB?

straight blast gym

thats him, good coach nice guy great grappler and his anti grappling programme is very good

[ginosifu]

Another good reason to Re Evaluate if you are going to the Ground in a Street Fight:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=00g5a416rdU

ginosifu

[MasterKiller]

Or, if you're the guy on bottom, maybe you need groundfighting so your woman doesn't have to save you.

[Fa Xing]

Or, if you're the guy on bottom, maybe you need groundfighting so your woman doesn't have to save you.

LOL!

MK, you have a good point there!

[mickey]

NICE!

I would take that chick home and put on my bib if she did that for me.


mickey

[Subitai]

Wow, i'm really surprised at why there isn't more SNIBE or Holier then Thou Comments!!!!


I'm still expecting to see jokes about how

- Totally unrealistic, False pretenders of Street fights have been pushing this Warning of 3rd party interference to the wayside for years now. The video is probably a fake, because Nobody ever jumps in to save a friend. Especially a girl.

- What is supposed to happen is that a circle should form around the fighters and they should be allowed to finish the fight unmolested. Again, it's unrealistic.

- a REAL Grappler would have been more street aware and would never have taken a kick to the face from a 3rd party....EVER because it doesn't happen in the gym.

- OR not to be undone...Trained fighters also HAVE MOMS that can sneak up on your fight and do a better job of kicking your opponant in the face.

-It's a documented fact that Moms or girlfriends of Trained fighters can fight better than those of untrained common street thugs.

- The girl or MOM was obviously a HIGHLY TRAINED MMA FIGHTER. Only THEY posses the Raw ability to knock a person out with a kick. It's so obvious that THAT particular girl or mom has knocked out many people...she probably kicks bags and boards on a regular basis. Her clothes confirm it.

- OR....OR, wow if an untrained mom can knock someone out...imagine how much MORE KNOCKED OUT he would have been if she were a highly trained fighting er...Mom.

Why'd you show this Gino??? Geez ;)

[Lucas]

i thought we already did this thread?!?!? :confused:

[Subitai]

i thought we already did this thread?!?!? :confused:

Sorry Lucas...I couldn't resist. I know...Blame Gino...Ya blame him. haha

[Lucas]

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

http://kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=62489

[sanjuro_ronin]

People fail to see the reality of that clip.
It was NOT a failure of ground work, but a failure of "iron face" training.
The guy on top obviously tried to face smash that woman's foot and his training was not up to par.

[Dragonzbane76]

http://www.pinetarpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/beating-a-dead-horse-2.jpg

[Chadderz]

Haha, so this one example should be taken seriously? I think the OP needs to re-evaluate their training methods.

[Drake]

This isn't complicated, folks, and doesn't fall under ANY category. Be aware of your surroundings. ****, this should apply to ANYTHING you do.

[Lucas]

I feel safer in obliviousness.

[GeneChing]

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

http://kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?t=62489
Thanks for the assist, Lucas. We do like to keep our discussions tidy.

In all the street conflicts I've been in (and there's been more than I'd care to admit) if it's more than one-on-one, the person on the ground is usually at the bottom of the dogpile and in a world of hurt. That being said, one shouldn't neglect ones ground game, just in case it is a one-on-one fight while isolated in a cage. :p

[Lucas]

i've opted for having a gangsta mom follow me around to socker punt people who gnp me.

[Lebaufist]

Did anyone make the connection that the guy got off easy? What if the friend was a big guy with a steal toed boot?

Its obvious they weren't grappling correctly. Or the friend/bystander wouldn't be able to kick him due to the patented grappler's force shield.

[Lebaufist]

Haha, so this one example should be taken seriously? I think the OP needs to re-evaluate their training methods.Oh, I see, so this would fall under fluke? That this could never happen to you? :rolleyes:

[Chadderz]

Oh, I see, so this would fall under fluke? That this could never happen to you? :rolleyes:

Man, you can see that neither of those two guys are grapplers, and as such should not represent grappling.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9cXGX0wxrk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hm7yWxfForE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHbmKJa_des&feature=related


Obviously these should not represent the effectiveness of striking arts, should they?

[Ray Pina]

You can be a trained grappler or striker and get your a$$ beat if you are a kook.


What's a kook? Someone who has all the gear and books and knows the lingo and likes to talk about it and loves to make it the center of their conversations or brings it up in conversation but, in martial arts case, hasn't done any real resistance training or fighting against skilled men. In other words, a $hit talker.

[Lebaufist]

Man, you can see that neither of those two guys are grapplers, and as such should not represent grappling.
Re....re...represent?!?!?!? LOL!! They could be world class and the end would be the same.

[Chadderz]

Re....re...represent?!?!?!? LOL!! They could be world class and the end would be the same.

Would it have made a difference if they were standing and the mother came in and sucker-punched the guy in the back of the head?

[Lebaufist]

nOT REALLY. But much less likely and much less probably a K.O.
I just have to laugh at all the "defenders of grappling" turning up to say " thatz not the realz grappling."

[Chadderz]

nOT REALLY. But much less likely and much less probably a K.O.
I just have to laugh at all the "defenders of grappling" turning up to say " thatz not the realz grappling."

Well it would be the same if it had been a sucker punch standing up, haha. If it had been kung fu, it would have been "That's not real kung fu".

[Lebaufist]

as it is so many times. Thats why its funny, kid.

[Syn7]

there are times when taking a street fight to the ground is a good idea, and times when its a bad idea. where the fight takes place should be dependant on the situation at hand. not some f@ggy biased bullsh1t credo that one range is better than the other. cats who argue this really need to grow up. if you don't see the obvious logic here, you aren't and never will be a good fighter.

too many cats think they are good and their sh1t is "unbeatable" simply cause they never fought anybody worthwhile with a rounded game.

i argue this with my roomate all the time. he honestly believes he can take down any wrestler. check this tho, he's never even stepped on the mat with a good wrestler in his own weight class. he thinks coz he can throw around his wimpy BJJ friend who is 2 feet shorter that he can beat any grappler. rediculous. i'm not even willing to debate the issue with him anymore. he has never fought anyone who could fight. beating up people who dont know anything doesnt make you good. it makes you a beginner.

[Chadderz]

there are times when taking a street fight to the ground is a good idea, and times when its a bad idea. where the fight takes place should be dependant on the situation at hand. not some f@ggy biased bullsh1t credo that one range is better than the other. cats who argue this really need to grow up. if you don't see the obvious logic here, you aren't and never will be a good fighter.

too many cats think they are good and their sh1t is "unbeatable" simply cause they never fought anybody worthwhile with a rounded game.

i argue this with my roomate all the time. he honestly believes he can take down any wrestler. check this tho, he's never even stepped on the mat with a good wrestler in his own weight class. he thinks coz he can throw around his wimpy BJJ friend who is 2 feet shorter that he can beat any grappler. rediculous. i'm not even willing to debate the issue with him anymore. he has never fought anyone who could fight. beating up people who dont know anything doesnt make you good. it makes you a beginner.

QFT! :D

What's up with the accent though? Where ya from man? :D

[Frost]

as it is so many times. Thats why its funny, kid.

trouble is grapplers can also post clips of real grappling winning a street fight...still waiting for the real kung fu clips doing the same from you :)

Oh and for your info grappling doesnt just mean ground fighting it also means throwing, so a world class grappler wouldnt have ended up on the floor he would have probably just dumped you on your head and run off :)

[Lebaufist]

trouble is grapplers can also post clips of real grappling winning a street fight...still waiting for the real kung fu clips doing the same from you :)


bzzzzzzzzzz wrong.
You said street fight , right? Not some cage match. There is a difference. KOs in the street are a dime a dozen on google.

[sanjuro_ronin]

Was there a time warp?
Did we just move back in time 20 years ??

[Chadderz]

bzzzzzzzzzz wrong.
You said street fight , right? Not some cage match. There is a difference. KOs in the street are a dime a dozen on google.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85FFupYd-v4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hm7yWxfForE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHbmKJa_des&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bl76jcW-sHs&feature=channel_video_title

[sanjuro_ronin]

Come on guys, seriously?
We've been over this so many times its not funny anymore.

[Frost]

bzzzzzzzzzz wrong.
You said street fight , right? Not some cage match. There is a difference. KOs in the street are a dime a dozen on google.

from kung fu guys..please post them :)

there have been a few posted of BJJ winning so your turn

heres another one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEQQ1HFgvKE

[Frost]

Come on guys, seriously?
We've been over this so many times its not funny anymore.

and yet the myth still persists...........

[sanjuro_ronin]

and yet the myth still persists...........

There are days my friend when I truly think to myself, "why bother?"...

[Frost]

There are days my friend when I truly think to myself, "why bother?"...

same here, then i think its slow today at work who can i annoy :)

just smile and post nice pics!

[sanjuro_ronin]

same here, then i think its slow today at work who can i annoy :)

just smile and post nice pics!

http://www.lowprofilerecords.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/nice-asses.jpeg


Of course I will get reamed for posting buttocks.
:D

[Frost]

i for one will defend your right to post them will all my might :eek:

[Dragonzbane76]

Of course I will get reamed for posting buttocks.

better than some of the stupidity some on here preach.

[Lucas]

i for one will defend your right to post them will all my might :eek:

and i will murder anyone who stops him from posting more!!

[Lebaufist]

There are days my friend when I truly think to myself, "why bother?"...

The whole thing is freaking ridiculous. Its just so laughable that we have this stupidity to this day. Because every grappler is an elite fighting phenom. :rolleyes: God forbid there is a tarnish on that shiny gold badge people like to wear regardless of personal skill.

So kung guys are incapable of doing just about anything? They can't even KO somebody. Really?

addendum: After viewing the above video "proof" I have to admit if you are a corrections officer the best way to subdue a perp that will give up instantly is bjj. Or if you are in a school yard and are fighting someone half your size. No one seems to step in on those. Or in a drunken tangle with a confused lush. All valid.

What did we learn? That grapplers are not immune to rallying around a bad video just like kung fu guys. That grapplers will spin a million excuses for something they could not control themselves on their best day. Sh1t happens , get over it. And type kung fu ko in youtube for some choice KOs if you must.

[Lebaufist]

http://www.lowprofilerecords.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/nice-asses.jpeg


Of course I will get reamed for posting buttocks.
:D

Thats faptacular!!!

addendum: My choices would be in the order or left, right, center.

[Syn7]

QFT! :D

What's up with the accent though? Where ya from man? :D

accent??? didnt know you could here me? you mean the way i type? or the words i use?

I reside in Vancouver BC. Lived in vancouver most of my life except when i was living near the bay(frisco, that is). SJ to be precise.

[Yoshiyahu]

Personally I just love wrestlers...I remember about 15 years ago...encountering them...they were the most fun to fight...Well i actualy didnt fight them directly. A friend of mines would get into fights with some of them...An we be standing close by waiting for the fight to go down. Once my friend took the guy down or he took him down...Me and some others would start kickin the other guy in the face!!!

In my hood go to ground if you want too. I cant wait to get my timbs on you...

Another my friend of mines would do that to dummy he didnt Know...Just start pounding some guy in head who went down...lol!!!


i look back on it now and think sad...but then it was funny as heck!

So if your ever in my area...get into a fight...please dont take no one to ground...i hate the temptation!

[shaolin_allan]

The whole thing is freaking ridiculous. Its just so laughable that we have this stupidity to this day. Because every grappler is an elite fighting phenom. :rolleyes: God forbid there is a tarnish on that shiny gold badge people like to wear regardless of personal skill.


Thanks to Yoshiyahu and Lebaufist for still adding to this thread positively. Yes this thread has been over before, but most all the threads on here have. It's like coming up with an original movie idea these days. The reason why I made this thread is because the myth still exists and I still hear about it all the time so it's still worth discussing again.

[Yoshiyahu]

Thanks to Yoshiyahu and Lebaufist for still adding to this thread positively. Yes this thread has been over before, but most all the threads on here have. It's like coming up with an original movie idea these days. The reason why I made this thread is because the myth still exists and I still hear about it all the time so it's still worth discussing again.

i once was that guy who had Judo and Aikido only!!! Its not gonna work against a striker with out techniques that teach you how to deal with strikers....Thats why i like Wing Chun with in first few months you can see how to deal with a punch, a kick, a person who sticks and moves. Aikido and judo your a sitting duck waiting to get your head knocked off!!!

[Chadderz]

Thanks to Yoshiyahu and Lebaufist for still adding to this thread positively. Yes this thread has been over before, but most all the threads on here have. It's like coming up with an original movie idea these days. The reason why I made this thread is because the myth still exists and I still hear about it all the time so it's still worth discussing again.

Grapplers are far from invincible. Did somebody say otherwise?

[Yoshiyahu]

Grapplers are far from invincible. Did somebody say otherwise?

Yes they did!!!

[Chadderz]

Yes they did!!!

They lied! There are always better grapplers :p

[Yoshiyahu]

They lied! There are always better grapplers :p

i doubt it!

[William123]

http://www.bangstyle.com/2011/12/man-left-bruised-and-battered-after-attempting-to-mug-mma-fighter/

[Dragonzbane76]

i doubt it!

I doubt a lot of things but i dont doubt tried and tested.

[Kung_Who?]

A couple of vid's here of my old friend Chris Deer, the sparing and fight coach at a center opening in Cushing Oklahoma hopefully this month or first of next.

Grappling alone would not be sufficient against these attacks were they to take place on a hard street. Then again, striking alone would not yield the best of results either.


Quick and to the point
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awhyS64t32I&context=C3ef7be7ADOEgsToPDskLCjjgN9wTH4rt5PzFkr85G

Submitted on this one but I still would not want to be on the receiving end of that slam or punches on the street with no mat or gear.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8CwHrw0nS0

[Chadderz]

A couple of vid's here of my old friend Chris Deer, the sparing and fight coach at a center opening in Cushing Oklahoma hopefully this month or first of next.

Grappling alone would not be sufficient against these attacks were they to take place on a hard street. Then again, striking alone would not yield the best of results either.


Quick and to the point
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awhyS64t32I&context=C3ef7be7ADOEgsToPDskLCjjgN9wTH4rt5PzFkr85G

Submitted on this one but I still would not want to be on the receiving end of that slam or punches on the street with no mat or gear.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8CwHrw0nS0

Well of course the obvious solution is to be well rounded then, no? We came to that conclusion 10 years ago :p

[Kung_Who?]

Well of course the obvious solution is to be well rounded then, no? We came to that conclusion 10 years ago :p

LOL, Yes, we did (at least most of us)
I am and have always been of the opinion that a complete system will have all the elements of combat, after all, it is called a "Martial Art" for a reason, Yes?

[Neeros]

In friendly sparring how do you handle training with a grappler as a standup. Specifically have you found that the grappler is able to "admit defeat" per say without having to go for a knockout? :D

I ask because most grapplers train under the "quit when one taps out" mentality so there isn't much gray area as to who wins.

The only solution seems to be to have equal skills in both areas. :p Go figure.

[Kung_Who?]

In friendly sparring how do you handle training with a grappler as a standup. Specifically have you found that the grappler is able to "admit defeat" per say without having to go for a knockout? :D

I ask because most grapplers train under the "quit when one taps out" mentality so there isn't much gray area as to who wins.

The only solution seems to be to have equal skills in both areas. :p Go figure.

I am learning a lot about my chosen style from the cage fighting friend I posted the vid's of a few days ago. Together we have began a journey through a couple of Hung Gar forms, starting of course, with Lau Gar.
I have to admit, he is finding more grappling in that one form than I (or others I have trained with) had ever noticed in the system.
Why? Because we have lost that part of the traditional training somewhere over the last couple of generations. Sifu use to show us joint locks and breaks from time to time, even an arm bar, but we never really practiced them in sparing because we all just tended to do more of a standup game.

Who knew, cage fighters taking an old hung gar guy back to the basics, ,, , :)

[Dragonzbane76]

Who knew, cage fighters taking an old hung gar guy back to the basics, ,,

all kinds of knowledge can be found from differing points of view. Never be closed minded to someone of differing backgrounds. They are the best to learn from and sometimes show you things you didn't see. a lot of Traditionalist tend to close out any others that come in with some kind of knowledge base. Sad but true.

[Neeros]

I am learning a lot about my chosen style from the cage fighting friend I posted the vid's of a few days ago. Together we have began a journey through a couple of Hung Gar forms, starting of course, with Lau Gar.
I have to admit, he is finding more grappling in that one form than I (or others I have trained with) had ever noticed in the system.
Why? Because we have lost that part of the traditional training somewhere over the last couple of generations. Sifu use to show us joint locks and breaks from time to time, even an arm bar, but we never really practiced them in sparing because we all just tended to do more of a standup game.

Who knew, cage fighters taking an old hung gar guy back to the basics, ,, , :)

That is so awesome to hear!

I am so glad that in the system I am learning the basics are highly stressed. The basic syllabus starts out with stances, then moving in stances/footwork, then the fundamental 16 combat sequences. All together the 16 sequences cover the four modes of combat. Striking/Kicking/Felling/Qin-na.

Sequences 1-4 covers attack and defense of the 4 striking zones. Low/Middle/High/Side

Sequences 5-8 Expands on striking giving more options

Sequences 9-12 covers kicking attack and defense

and 13-16 covers felling and Qin-na attack and defense

By starting with Seq 1, then systematically adding more and more sequences in you can go from 1-2-3 step sparring to free sparring in a very short time.

The sequences are turned into forms after you understand them and all their applications. Later on the traditional forms are taught.

[Kung_Who?]

That is so awesome to hear!

I am so glad that in the system I am learning the basics are highly stressed. The basic syllabus starts out with stances, then moving in stances/footwork, then the fundamental 16 combat sequences. All together the 16 sequences cover the four modes of combat. Striking/Kicking/Felling/Qin-na.

Sequences 1-4 covers attack and defense of the 4 striking zones. Low/Middle/High/Side

Sequences 5-8 Expands on striking giving more options

Sequences 9-12 covers kicking attack and defense

and 13-16 covers felling and Qin-na attack and defense

By starting with Seq 1, then systematically adding more and more sequences in you can go from 1-2-3 step sparring to free sparring in a very short time.

The sequences are turned into forms after you understand them and all their applications. Later on the traditional forms are taught.


What system are you learning, if I may ask?

[Kung_Who?]

all kinds of knowledge can be found from differing points of view. Never be closed minded to someone of differing backgrounds. They are the best to learn from and sometimes show you things you didn't see. a lot of Traditionalist tend to close out any others that come in with some kind of knowledge base. Sad but true.

Exactly. Like I said, most traditionalists seem to have lost track of the grappling portion of our training. We have a workshop scheduled in March with my Si-Bak who still trains for all aspects of combat, a few of us trying to get back to the basics of hung fist before he shows up, LOL.

It has been a very learning journey so far and now I think I am starting to learn all over again but that is ok, it is just more Kung Fu, ,, , :)

[Neeros]

What system are you learning, if I may ask?

Shaolinquan from Shaolin Wahnam.

www.shaolin.org

Sparring in house is quite controlled but it's a school wide goal to enter and win in full contact competitions.

[Kung_Who?]

Shaolinquan from Shaolin Wahnam.

www.shaolin.org

Sparring in house is quite controlled but it's a school wide goal to enter and win in full contact competitions.

Unfamiliar with the system, but good luck with the competitions.