Arm Wrap

[YouKnowWho]

What will you call this move when you use your arm to '"wrap around" your opponent's arm? Do you use it more for striking or grappling?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSQ_rFdZ7J8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlFppF10wg4&feature=feedu

[IronFist]

It works great if your opponent leaves his arm extended after a punch like in that first clip.

[Dragonzbane76]

Wrestling term is wizzer and is usually incorporated with a pivot that throws your opponent off balance or to the ground.

[EarthDragon]

wraping, just a simple listening drill/ feeling.

BUT
as Iron fist said most will punch then retract before you can size and lock the elbow but i have done it while bouncing but they were drunk so its really easy to move quicker and get the lock before they retract

[MightyB]

I use it a lot in Judo and Jiu Jitsu. What's fun and frustrating for your opponent is to arm wrap like that and use your wrapping hand to grab their opposite lapel in Gi'd competition.

[MightyB]

wraping, just a simple listening drill/ feeling.

BUT
as Iron fist said most will punch then retract before you can size and lock the elbow but i have done it while bouncing but they were drunk so its really easy to move quicker and get the lock before they retract

trying to catch a punch with a wrap would be tough, but you can get it in a striking fight by really closing the distance and working it in the tie-up range.

[Iron_Eagle_76]

Arm wraps and underhooks are best used in the clinch, not after your opponent punches and leaves his arm in midair and posing.;)

Anytime you control an opponent's limb they cannot hit you with it, use that to your advantage.:)

[Brule]

It's a great set up for a standing arm break.

[EarthDragon]

standing arm break? You cannot break someone arm while standing, not enough force could ever possibly be applied, hope thats just your favoritre hulk hogan move lol

[dirtyrat]

its obviously not a primary technique you would use right off the bat, but a follow up or counter technique (after getting an overhook & striking for example). its just a demo

[ginosifu]

Some people call this an Over Hook or a Wizzer or a Arm Wrap... but in the end you try to control the person thru his elbow and shoulder. It is more easily done from a clinch or inside gate control, but is it possible to get from a punch?

From a quick jab or reverse punch..... NO, but what if they come with a hook or an over hand armswing? It seems do able from a heavy committed arm swing, what do you guys think?

ginosifu

[IronFist]

From a quick jab or reverse punch..... NO, but what if they come with a hook or an over hand armswing? It seems do able from a heavy committed arm swing, what do you guys think?



It won't work against a trained resisting opponent. Go visit a boxing or MMA gym and I'm sure they'll let you try it out.

It probably won't even work against a untrained guy throwing haymakers.

Maybe, as EarthDragon said, if they were drunk.

[MasterKiller]

It's neither an overhook or a ****zer.

Overhooks and ****zers are held deeper into your armpit and higher on their shoulder, not low on the arm like that.

[ginosifu]

It won't work against a trained resisting opponent. Go visit a boxing or MMA gym and I'm sure they'll let you try it out.

It probably won't even work against a untrained guy throwing haymakers.

Maybe, as EarthDragon said, if they were drunk.

That was what I was getting sorta. Will it work on someone throwing a haymaker? Against a smart fighter I know..... but what about the stupid drunk guy coming outta the bar?

ginosifu

[ginosifu]

I use this same move SC against beginner fighters. It does not work so well against veterans but the dweeb beginners fall for it easy.

ginosifu

[IronFist]

That was what I was getting sorta. Will it work on someone throwing a haymaker? Against a smart fighter I know..... but what about the stupid drunk guy coming outta the bar?



I wouldn't count on it. You never know who's a good fighter and I don't want to run the risk of assuming someone isn't.

That stupid drunk guy might be a ninja or whatever.

[ginosifu]

It's neither an overhook or a ****zer.

Overhooks and ****zers are held deeper into your armpit and higher on their shoulder, not low on the arm like that.

I was generalizing MK. When you wrap your over the top, you can wizzer, Over Hook or grab on to the tricep. Geeesh.... Youngins, MK I wrestled since the age of 12 thru high school and into college.... I have been wrestling for more years that you are old my son. I will be 49 this January ! Wow ! I feel Wisdom (Old)

ginosifu

[YouKnowWho]

It seems do able from a heavy committed arm swing, what do you guys think?
I prefer to use my attack to "set up" my arm wrap instead of to wait for my opponent to attack me. Since "control opponent's leading arm" is a very important requirement in the Chinese wrestling, It's like the bread and butter for a Chinese wrestler, if you can wrap your opponent's leading arm, not only you can take away your opponent's leading arm punching ability, almost any of your throws will work. Chinese wrestlers will spend a lot of training just to achieve this simple task.

IMO, The "arm wrap" should not be 90 degree to your opponent's arm. It should be 45 degree or even 30 degree instead. In other words, you should move in toward your opponent in case he moves back. To be used against an experience opponent, you may need to apply 2 steps fuctions instead of just 1 step. If you can achieve your "mantis arm" first, to finish your "arm wrap" will be much easier.

You will need a lot of patient when your opponent just jumps around you like a boxer. The moment that your opponent moves in, the moment that you move in too. This way it will be difficult for your opponent to move back right at that moment.

[MightyB]

Anybody else find that if you're wrapped, it does allow for you to quickly go for a deep grab on your opponents back allowing for a hip toss?

Basically - if I'm the guy getting arm wrapped but my opponent is stalling, they're just wrapping and thinking what do I do... I just relax the gripped arm, drive it in securing a grip on the back of his belt and turn into a hip toss.

[EarthDragon]

mighty the purpose of the wrap is to have the hinge elbow joint locked as you end the transition it would be ipossible to appy your tech once this is done.

[MightyB]

mighty the purpose of the wrap is to have the hinge elbow joint locked as you end the transition it would be ipossible to appy your tech once this is done.

No - it's quite possible, I'd say 100% possible.

I know you do some SC at your school, so just try it the next time someone starts to go for that type of wrap on you, immediately close, grab their belt on their back and hip toss. Be fast with your reaction.

[YouKnowWho]

No - it's quite possible, I'd say 100% possible.

I know you do some SC at your school, so just try it the next time someone starts to go for that type of wrap on you, immediately close, grab their belt on their back and hip toss. Be fast with your reaction.

If your opponent gets 2 points control, his hand holds on your elbow and his armpit hold on your wrist, any move that you intend to do with that arm, he can cancel out your initial force by either pushing or pulling with his elbow control. It's not impossible for you to do anything. It's not that easy either.

http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/695/changheadlock.jpg

[wenshu]

just try it the next time someone starts to go for that type of wrap on you, immediately close, grab their belt on their back and hip toss. Be fast with your reaction.

I like to grab the back of the collar from that position, gives a lot of control over the upper body.
http://judoinfo.com/images/animations/blue/haraigoshi.gif

Actually pulled it off in sparring too, but people get hip to it pretty quick though.

[MightyB]

If your opponent gets 2 points control, his hand holds on your elbow and his armpit hold on your wrist, any move that you intend to do with that arm, he can cancel out your initial force by either pushing or pulling with his elbow control. It's not impossible for you to do anything. It's not that easy either.

http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/695/changheadlock.jpg

Well at that point your fuked as they say... but that's why I said be fast with your reaction on their initiation. Plus - it's all in the grips - it's all in the grips - saying that out loud reminds me of that scene in Happy Gilmore where Carl Weathers is teaching him the game of golf - it's all in the hips - Anyway,

without letting yourself get completely man handled like a beyotch - next time a person tries an overwrap to get control of your arm, shoot your arm in whilst turning, grab their belt and do an o - goshi. Try it in your next training session and then report back here if it was a successful counter to that arm wrap.

[MightyB]

I like to grab the back of the collar from that position, gives a lot of control over the upper body.
http://judoinfo.com/images/animations/blue/haraigoshi.gif

Actually pulled it off in sparring too, but people get hip to it pretty quick though.

Nice - I'll try that.

[YouKnowWho]

next time a person tries an overwrap to get control of your arm, shoot your arm in whilst turning, grab their belt and do an o - goshi. Try it in your next training session and then report back here if it was a successful counter to that arm wrap.

You are saying to entend your arm before your opponent has control on your elbow. That's an excellent point and I agree 100% with you there.

When your opponent does that, you can use your non-wrapping hand to push on the shoulder of his wrapping arm. That will stop his arm forward movement and allow you to have time to finish your wrapping.

If both you and your opponent are good grapplers, the fun game will start right at this moment. The wrestling is so much fun.

[EarthDragon]

mighty B, well yes of course if you can execute before the lock, but then that goes for anything , but my point was while I am wraping I will already be in position to lock the elbow before you can react to it as I am also throwing an atack and disstracting you from warping your arm, this is the goal of the wrap.. when done right you cant do your counter.

[MightyB]

mighty B, well yes of course if you can execute before the lock, but then that goes for anything , but my point was while I am wraping I will already be in position to lock the elbow before you can react to it as I am also throwing an atack and disstracting you from warping your arm, this is the goal of the wrap.. when done right you cant do your counter.

I get ya - I play both sides. That's what my initial post was about.

Try this also, overwrap like you usually do, but reach deep enough to grab their opposite lapel. So if you're overwrapping their right arm with your left, circle their arm deeply like a ****zer and grab their left side collar. Pressure for a second like you'd do with a ****zer (shift slightly to your left and torque down on their arm forcing them to bow)... when they start to feel that pressure, they should react by stiffening up and fighting that bow pressure. As soon as you feel that, step in and turn hard, under hook their left arm with your right, and hip toss.

[wenshu]

I get ya - I play both sides. That's what my initial post was about.

Try this also, overwrap like you usually do, but reach deep enough to grab their opposite lapel. So if you're overwrapping their right arm with your left, circle their arm deeply like a ****zer and grab their left side collar. Pressure for a second like you'd do with a ****zer (shift slightly to your left and torque down on their arm forcing them to bow)... when they start to feel that pressure, they should react by stiffening up and fighting that bow pressure. As soon as you feel that, step in and turn hard, under hook their left arm with your right, and hip toss.

Dude, I was just on youtube trying to find an example of this very tech (the grips anyways) to post here.

I learned it as a counter to a front belt grip.

[MightyB]

Dude, I was just on youtube trying to find an example of this very tech (the grips anyways) to post here.

I learned it as a counter to a front belt grip.

It's one of my coach's favorite moves. The wh izzer feint to hip toss part, my innovation was the lapel grab.

[MightyB]

the neat thing about that overhook/wrap to lapel grab is that in groundwork, you can do a sliding collar choke while facing your opponent. It's pretty sneaky that way because most judoka only learn sliding collar after taking a person's back.

[MightyB]

Another neat arm wrap move from the ground is the knee on elbow lock... it can set up an omoplata, and a butterfly sweep... :)

[uki]

love that move... most of my arm intentions/movements revolve around that concept - there are a wide variety variations and i guess if i was "formally" trained, i would know the big fancy technique names in chinese that have been handed down over the ages, but as it were, i discovered them thru myself and practice with others... in the first video, stepping further and sliding the arm along, you can also hook the neck by bending the hand backwards - sink, twist, and smash the solar plexus on their way to the ground... utilizing the underarms/armpits and inside elbows for trapping is amazingly efficient. :)

edit... if this was covered already forgive me. i only read the first post.

[YouKnowWho]

Do you guys feel this kind of discussion may be more fun than to argue between TCMA vs. MMA, or "internal" vs. "external"? IMO, we can always learn from each other and then try on our training partner to see whether it will work or not.

[Lee Chiang Po]

I am not familiar with the use of this technique that was featured in the video, but in jiujitsu it is a simple elbow lift. It is a technique that works quite well if you apply it with immediate force and ferocity. There is a huge number of follow up moves you can make from there.
For doubters, if a person should apply this technique on you, he could walk you backwards while punching your face and there is little you could do about it. Hip throw, foot sweep, lots of things. Or he could simply hyper extend the elbow and drop you on the floor.

[mickey]

Greetings,

I learned that move before.

I learned that it is best not to fully wrap around the arm because the opponent can draw in his elbow and pul you in. I learned to trap with my upper arm and hold behind the elbow. This method is easily seen in Western boxing. Additionally, the arc in executing the move is quite small.

mickey

[EarthDragon]

mighty B , yes we have this throw in the shuai jiao part in our system, it works well.

mickey, you must have the elbow hinge locked as you wrap to avoid that

[mickey]

Hi EarthDragon,

Yes, you are right. And it comes down to timing because the counter I described is there.

mickey

[Yum Cha]

love that move... most of my arm intentions/movements revolve around that concept - there are a wide variety variations and i guess if i was "formally" trained, i would know the big fancy technique names in chinese that have been handed down over the ages, but as it were, i discovered them thru myself and practice with others... in the first video, stepping further and sliding the arm along, you can also hook the neck by bending the hand backwards - sink, twist, and smash the solar plexus on their way to the ground... utilizing the underarms/armpits and inside elbows for trapping is amazingly efficient. :)

edit... if this was covered already forgive me. i only read the first post.

Uki, don't get seduced by the seemingly 'mystical' byproduct of translation of a symbolic language. There is nothing special or informative or particularly relevant in all the tongue fu at the end of the day, it lives in your hands. Use western terms, they work just fine.

You just use the vocabulary of your training partners. So, like 'Ouch!" "Mother-F***er!" "I'm comming back with a GUN!", stuff like that....:D